Just remeber also..no matter how much evidence there is confirming (and more will appear) the BoM is true there will always be those that doubt or try to disprove. Thomas didn't believe our saviour had come back until he touched the wounds...just saying :-)
We do not find Book of Mormon names in Maya inscriptions for two reasons. First, few inscriptions are contemporary with the Book of Mormon. Second, they come from cities that are not considered by Latter-day Saint scholars to have been Nephite
The horse remains in Carlsbad dates to between 1625 and 1705. The Spanish started bring horses in 1493. Carlsbad isnt far from the Spanish conquered Mexico. The horse was buried ritualistically along with a burro, both aquired from the spanish.
This remains date to the last ice age along with mammoth and bison remains found within the cave, thousands of years before the Mayans or the Jaredites. These apologists are either very flawed in their research techniques or lying sacks of shit.
@scotticus80 "Woolly Mammoth Mammuthus primigenius, Northern USA, 2000 BC." (Wikipedia) Check it out.
Also the Gomphotheres became extinct in about A.D. 400. in South America,
"Please note that reference is made to a potential pre-Columbian horse, the so-called "Spencer Lake," horse skull. This has NOW been determined to have been a fraud or hoax"
"There is an urgent need for more men and women like you who will stand for principles against the growing pressures to compromise those very principles," Scott, a member of the LDS Church's Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, warned graduates. "Men and women are needed who will act nobly and courageously for what the Lord has defined as right, not for what is politically correct or socially acceptable."
Two reasons are Jonathan Harris and Brock Kendall, who have been assigned to scour Alabama to see if they can find prospective adherents.
They are among 150 young Mormon missionaries working in Alabama at the moment. Along with thousands of others through the years, they are involved in what amounts to a rite of passage in the church founded by Joseph Smith.
Posted: Sunday, July 17, 2005 12:00 am North County times. Archaeologist Luke Piek of Gallegos and Associates, work on a horse unearthed Tuesday at an archaeological dig on a hilltop in Carlsbad on Wednesday Archaeologists working against the clock in Carlsbad have unearthed another nearly intact skeleton of a horse that may have lived and died 50 years before the Spanish began their conquest of California.
In the "Book of Mormon," Helaman counseled "not so much so with fevers, because of the excellent qualities of many plants and roots which God had prepared to remove the cause of diseases" (Alma 46:40). The Lord is concerned for our health
But that's not the image the filmmakers came for. When people think about Mormons, they already picture teens in black ties toting Bibles, riding bikes down neighborhood streets. The filmmakers were after something more unexpected that day.
They stood in the hallway killing time next to a picture of Jesus. They laughed at themselves.
Imagine for a moment that your daughter was sitting on the railroad tracks and you heard the train whistle blowing. Would you warn her to get off the tracks? Or would you hesitate, worried that she might think you were being overprotective? If she ignored your warning, would you quickly move her to a safe place? Of course you would! Your love for your daughter would override all other considerations. You would value her life more than her temporary goodwill.
The Young Men and Young Women Mutual theme for 2010 was taken from the book of Joshua. It begins, “Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid” (Joshua 1:9). This phrase from the scriptures would be a good theme for parents as well. In these last days, what the world really needs is courageous parenting from mothers and fathers who are not afraid to speak up and take a stand.
“And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John’s baptism.
“Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
It's one of the newest buildings on campus and takes in thousands of students each day, but most students don't even know what it is.
Completed in September 2007 at a cost of $20 million, the Tempe Institute of Religion at ASU regularly provides services, classes and parking to thousands of Mormon students each week. However, most students not affiliated with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have never seen the inside of the building.
While conversion to another faith is a rather sensitive topic for Jews, it is rarely a topic of conversation in Mormon circles. Although both communities are roughly the same size both in the United States (6 million) and worldwide (14 million), Jews have endured centuries of persecution, pogroms and anti-Semitism, and continue to be targeted for conversion by well-funded Evangelical groups like Jews for Jesus.
I visited one late one night. It was midnight, and I went to the nursing home, and the receptionist said, “I’m sure she’s asleep, but she told me to be sure to awaken her, for she said, ‘I know he’ll come.’”
I held her hand; she called my name. She was wide awake. She pressed my hand to her lips and said, “I knew you’d come.” How could I not have come?
I think of her. I think of my father. I think of all those General Authorities who’ve influenced me, and others, including the widows whom I visited—85 of them—with a chicken for the oven, sometimes a little money for their pocket.
am I missing something here? I thought The Book of Mormon was translated into English by the gift and power of God? Are you telling me that God doesn't know what a chariot is or if it was some other type of device that the Lamenite King was riding that God didn't know how to describe it?
@rd1999 As with any translation, words are translated into familiar terms that the reader and translator is aware of. Take for example the word "road" found in The BOM. If it were a piece of equipment that was pulled by a beast of burden, the best and easiest translation would be a chariot. This is not an uncommon practice
@fairldsorg Ok just for fun lets say that the Nephite word for the thing the Lamenite king was riding in was a "cuttinbux" and lets say in reality it's a travois being pulled by a giant ground sloth. If that's what it was God would have called it that. God knows English well enough to have described it what ever it was. He said it was a chariot, I believe God knows what he's talking about.
@rd1999 But the book isn't for God who knows all, it is for us. Many mortals have a hard enough time reading it without having to take a history class to find out what certain things mean. It is much simpler, easier to understand, and does not change the message of the book at all to call it simply a chariot.
@rd1999 "Are you telling me that God doesn't know what a chariot is or if it was some other type of device"
while I agree with you in principle, I think your inquisition stifles people from thinking outside of previously conceived understandings of BOM animals, geography and nomenclature. Something that I believe is imperative for answering so many of the unanswered questions.
@omiolo These kind of apologetics do harm to the book by wearing away it's truthfulness as a historical record. More and more the Book of Mormon falls into the realm of allegory like much of the Old Testament. I accept the book as inspired but have trouble calling it truth in the same way I accept the new Testament as truth.
@omiolo The fact that 1 Nephi chapter 9 says there are other plates with a greater account of the history does not mean that these plates that Mormon took these writings from were assumed to be fictitious. Are you saying they have no claim on true history?
@rd1999 "More and more the Book of Mormon falls into the realm of allegory like much of the Old Testament"
How funny, I find the OT to be the book of scripture with the most historical evidence and the NT to be the book of scripture with the least. Many scholars say the NT has NO historical evidence. The more I study Mesoamerican history and archeology the more I see how it parallels the BOM especially the so called Lamanite people. In fact, I was studying the city of LAMANai the other day.
@omiolo you find historical evidence for the Flood and the Garden of Eden? You find historical evidence for the teaching of no death before the fall 6K years ago? Do you believe that Laman and Lemuel had their skin turned black? Do you believe Cain had his skin turned black? Why do we not see evil people being turned black today? I have every confidence that skin color is the product of enviroment as science reveals
@rd1999 "Do you believe that Laman and Lemuel had their skin turned black?"
without question. Simple biology. Even you, if you ran around in the tropics in only a loin cloth would turn your skin darker, eventually your body would quit removing melanin and yours and especially your lineage would turn dark skinned. How would a simple farm boy from the cold northeast know that?
@omiolo So your belief in the difference between the Nephites and Lamenites is a sun tan? 2 Nephi 5:21
"And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them."
Why are there different color skins? Is it from the sun and a few other factors? Or do you NOT believe that the sun has ANY effect on skin color? I think you have a preconceived notion and you are willing to throw out SCIENCE to keep it.
@omiolo I have every confidence that skin color is the product of environment and not a cursing from God.
The posterity of Nephi and Lamen lived in the same area under the same sun their babies would have been born the same color, sun exposure is no explanation. Where do you think the idea comes from that the Book of Mormon describes a struggle between a dark and light skinned people?
@omiolo The men wore loin cloths in battle and shaved their heads. It doesn't say anything about what they wore on a daily basis, I would imagine they dressed the same as the Nephites. Do you read into this one obscure scripture that the women where wearing loin cloths too? Do you think the Lamenites and the Nephites dressed their babies different? I'm amazed at the kind of one track thinking you have. Does reality mean anything to you?
"feeding upon beasts of prey; dwelling in tents, and wandering about in the wilderness with a short skin girdle about their loins and their heads shaven; and their skill was in the bow, and in the cimeter, and the ax. And many of them did eat nothing save it was raw meat; and they were continually seeking to destroy us."
My beloved brothers and sisters, we have heard inspired messages of truth, of hope, and of love. Our thoughts have turned to Him who atoned for our sins, who showed us the way to live and how to pray, and who demonstrated by His own actions the blessings of service—even our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.
He told of Jonathan Napela, one of the earliest LDS converts in Hawaii, who was taught by Elder George Q. Cannon. They became good friends like Alma and Amulek, Brother Costa noted, adding that Brother Napela helped translate the Book of Mormon into the Hawaiian language and organized a school to instruct missionaries from Utah.
@masterskyrunner Even that can prove to be lacking as there is proof that DNA can change throughout the centuries, so its just a dumb lie when they say its 100% accurate.
@masterskyrunner "Genetic attacks on the Book of Mormon focus on the fact that Amerindian DNA seems closest to Asian DNA, and not DNA from "the Middle East" or "Jewish" DNA. However, this attack ignores several key points.
Lehi and his family are clearly not Jews. They belong to the tribe of Manasseh & married into Ishmael's family, the tribe of Ephraim. These tribes were carried away captive by the Assyrians, and did not contribute greatly to the current genetic mix of the Middle East.
Elder Rasband, Elder Caussé, President de Feo and Francesco di Lillo of public affairs met also with Marco Scurria, an Italian member of the European Parliament and Loris Facchinetti, Delegate of the Mayor of Rome on Science, Culture and Mediterranean Issues.
I know that sheep and oxen were very important in those times too. Then the europeans took them back to europe after they found them in central america.
Each year, worldwide, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints ("the Mormons"), hosts local youth conferences where teenage members of the church take part in workshops and activities where they can expand their learning, develop leadership skills, enrich their faith and values, and enjoy some social time together.
This year, the Winchester Stake of the Church, encompassing congregations from Petersburg, Winchester, Woodstock, Front Royal, Charles Town and Harpers Ferry, hosted its youth conference in the Harpers Ferry area.
FamilySearch Indexing announced that volunteers have completed 100 million records in the first half of 2010 and are on track to complete a targeted 200 million by the end of the year. The completed indexes and images are available for searching
At least eight people were killed and 25 others injured when a bus went off a highway between the cities of Esmeraldas and Santo Domingo de los Tsachilas, in northwestern Ecuador, the National Police said Monday.
A 12-year-old boy, a 16-year-old girl, an American woman and a Belgian woman were among those killed in the accident.
The two foreigners belonged to the Mormon church, police said.
@sa8668 Scientists have been "proving" the Bible wrong for years... until a scientific discovery is made that proves that they were wrong and perhaps there IS a God who knows what He's talking about. The same will be and is being said for the Book of Mromon, although those who don't want to believe wont, no matter how obvious the "proof".
Dylan McMurtry, a junior from Oregon studying political science, said, “My favorite part was having Sunday devotionals. There was a chance for us to bear our testimonies through word and music.”
While the choir members spent much time touring, performing, and being broadcast over the local radio and television stations, they also made time to meet with individual members of the LDS Church in the stakes they visited, as well as strengthen their own testimonies.
"I really enjoyed the exchange we did with Feng Chia University in Taichung, Taiwan,” says Dustin Geddes, a recent graduate in accounting from Utah. “I got to perform a traditional lion dance, and I became fast friends with the some of the students there as well as the local high school kids we were grouped up with. I kept them laughing with my ironic humor and my ineptitude at dancing as a lion. It was a blast!"
The Book of Mormon is the true word of God and why do we need limited knowledge scientists to study on a secular level. If you don't believe in the Book of Mormon, believe in Christ, if you Believe in Christ, then YOU will believe in the Book of Mormon
@1MormonT Very true . Must read the Book of Mormon and know it's truths that way . Just helps to get people over there hang ups so they will read it . A lot of liers out there.
The change that took place at church headquarters, the manner that we find manifest in the way that we do business today, was initiated in 1972 when the Church Historian's Office became the Church Historical Department and the department moved from the Church Administration Building to the new Church Office Building and with it, a professional staff was created for taking care of our history
I couldn't find my photograph of the church archival staff at the same time to demonstrate that it was a multi-tiered effort and was not just Leonard Arrington and group of professional historians, but there were professional archivists and librarians as well, and in many ways they served as the platform to create an environment whereby the church could not only produce an excellent and defendable history, but could ensure that it was preserved.
Unbelievable. Still not a single piece of hard evidence pointing to the existence of what the BOM claims. Chariots could be anything, not what we picture from the movies he says. Elephants existed on an island off of Siberia 1700 BC, so maybe they could have in American too, he says. Horse bones found in Mayan ruins, but even he says this doesn't prove anything (maybe not all ice age horses became extinct). Again, another video that doesn't provide a single hard artifact.
@PhilipK100 The answer is simple and confusing at the same time: Some believe the earth is 6000 years old, others believe it is much older. Both groups are faithful Latter-day Saints. It all depends on whether you take the account of the creation literally or figuratively. This may surprise you, but we have a comparatively open belief system with relatively few dogmas.
Why not? The translation of the word for "Day" in Genesis 1 is in Hebrew a word, that also means "Day" and "period" . If we translate it literally with "day", we should use the other term also.
The earth and the life on it was created in six periods of time.
You also have to keep in mind that the year 4000 B.C. did not commence at the creation of the world, it commenced after Adam and Eve were cast out of the Garden of Eden. Adam and Eve could have dwelt in the Garden of Eden millions, billions, even trillions of years before partaking of the forbidden fruit. This is just a possibility, not a fact.
Joseph Smith believed that the Book of Mormon took place in Central America at least since 1842.
"We have found another important fact relating to the truth of the Book of Mormon. Central America, or Guatemala, is situated north of the Isthmus of Darien and once embraced several hundred miles of territory from north to south.—The city of Zarahemla, burnt at the crucifixion of the Savior, and rebuilt afterwards, stood upon this land"
I don't get the relevance of horse bones in the "upper midwest" to pertain to a Central American narrative. I just think horses and chariots are a real stretch, kind of like how apologists point to wheeled toys as evidence of battle chariots. Roads are NOT evidence of anything other than travel. Pointing to Hebrew word translations to explain syntax from a MesoAmerican document is weird, too.
Disinfo agents pretending to be stupid, when in fact, they are anyway.
Then they can pretend they're too stupid to grasp the concept of thousands of copper mines, wherein 500,000 tons were removed, by people too stupid to imagine a wheel, though their toys had wheels. You see? you see why you have to dope the people with fluoride? So they can be closer to your mentality.
Those who favor a loose translation -- and it must be remembered that a number of members believe that both processes could have been used at different points in the translation -- believe Joseph received spiritual impressions and then had to formulate the most appropriate English expressions to convey those impressions
Here are some things to consider: * When Oliver Cowdery made a failed attempt at translating, he was told he failed because he did not "study" it out in his mind (D&C 9:8). * The Lord told Joseph that revelation came according to not only the recipients' language, but also in the "weakness" of their language (D&C 1:24). * As pointed out in Issue 30, a word-for-word translation from one language to another would result in a mess that would be difficult to understand.
While there are interesting evidences for a "tight control" over the Book of Mormon translation, there are also evidences and logical reasons to assume a "loose control."
Seem like all they ultimately did with disproving the chariot argument was prove the plagiarization found in the BoM. 12 straight chapters quoting pretty much word for word from the KJV 12 straight chapters from Isaiah? Hard to imagine THAT not being classical plagiarism.
hey dumbass, what are mustangs... huh? they're horses. and they originated here in AMERICA. so before you guys make stupid remarks, study the nation's animals first. this vid is as stupid as another one that said that there were no cows in the Americas, when in fact, what are the Texan Long Horn Cattle, are they bears, no! They're Cows!
You admonish people to study history, but then make the mistake of pointing to development of horses in this hemisphere as an obvious answer to critics--completely oblivious to the fact that the development of horses on this hemisphere was an evolutionary achievement millions of YEARS before history. To attempt to connect that with BOM claims is absurd, made even moreso by the commandment "before you make stupid remarks, study first!"
Woow... Ya, mustangs totally originated in North America... They weren't , you know, brought here by the Spaniards and escaped. Yup, totally. You totally help helped your cause there.
if you studied horses like i did dumbfuck, you'll find out that horses did originate there at one time, when the Earth was one many species originated there. There is a big debate in the science community about it, because it turned out at one time, the mustang horse did originate there, so they are wanting to classify it as a wild horse. Another thing funny is if you compare the two, mustang and Spanish mustang, they look totally different! and their dna is different too. Case closed.
Not once in The Bible does God put a prerequisite on faith and love by first finding "scientific evidence."
If a person doesn't understand why The Saints were commanded to practice polygamy, or why black weren't responsible for The Priesthood until 1978, than they aren't using critical thought.
People who look at the Church through "wordly" eyes will never soften their heart and allow the holy ghost to manifest itself.
Imagine looking at the story of Jericho through worldy eyes?LOL
Right on the money, my friend. I was in Mongolia, where there are more livestock than people, and Mongolians will tell you that even in the times of Chinigis Khan (that's his real name btw), horse remains were not often encountered, if at all.
The scripture of not teaching another doctrine other than the one Paul taught, even if an angel taught it is interesting for a traditional Christian to believe, what with evidences of them changing baptismal rites from immersion to sprinkling, importance of temples, and the nature of God-- looks like the Council of Nicea should be included in those things not to listen to. That's why God himself came- no angel, but the God you claim to love. If he wants to give more, why not let him give it?
Was no battle in New York- most scholars believe the battle was in mesoamerica- whoops!
Also, the book of Abraham manuscripts were never found, and neither were the actual facsimiles. Attempts to deride the document by using other Egyptian texts that are completely unrelated but "look alike"- the differences are stark and apparent. Nothing on the subject is conclusive.
Brethren, great promises await us if we are true and faithful to the oath and covenant of this precious priesthood which we hold. May we be worthy sons of our Heavenly Father. May we ever be exemplary in our homes and faithful in keeping all of the commandments, that we may harbor no animosity toward any man but rather be peacemakers, ever remembering the Saviors admonition
that is what I find funny about you ANTImormons. In order to be right you have to twist our doctrines and then pretend you are experts in mesoamerican archeology.
Isn't this just grasping? Why would proving horses existed in N.A. during BOM times prove the rest of the book is true. The book was a fake job... accept it... and bow down to your new master... The Flying Spaghetti Monster.
I've researched BoM and it's all been faked by a convicted fraud (Joe Smith) How can any intelligent person believe this stuff??? ..... oh excuse me.... I think I just answered my own question....
Anyone interested in this video, will also be interested in a lecture given by Wade Miller on Science and The Book of Mormon at this years fair conference. Check out our website to read it.
This clip is all wrong and that there were horses in the Book of Mormon time..This clip destroys our faith in believing that the book of mormon is true..which not right.:DD
Actually there are carvings of Maya on horses and with elephants. Carl Sagan in his book "Comet" states that the Mastodon (not the woolly mammoth) survived in the western hemisphere until 2000 years ago. That places it well within the time frame of the Book of Mormon
Neither one of these guys are telling the whole truth. The horse they refer to was the size of a dog and had feet similar to a dog. The elephant they refer to was a woolly mamoth and wouldn't survive in a tropic region. These men are frauds as much as Smith was. True scientists laugh at those bafoons.
The most horse-covered land on the face of this earth, the Mongolian Steppe, has yet to produce a horse body part to 'prove' that horses were there. Too bad for Far Eastern history...we might have to discard the bulk of it when it comes to barbarian invasions.
A Hunnic princesss graveyard discovered in summer of 1990 in the Mankhan locality of Khovd province contained five horse skulls and other horse related equipment.
Believing in the Book of Mormon is a question of faith and testimony, not primarily of science. It is the job of you Antis to provide the ULTIMATE scientific proof that the Book of Mormon is NOT true. (No, it is NOT DNA tests of limited parts of the population.)
However, there are stunning examples of scientific evidence FOR the Book of Mormon. For instance, the Book of Mormon describes Arabian geography much more accurately than any contemporary of Joseph Smith could have done.
It´s not science´s duty to disprove every fairytale that has been made up by anyone. It´s the other way: Whoever comes up with a scientific theory, a statement or a story, is required to provide evidence. The more absurd the story is, the better proof needs to be. Simple rules, revealed by Moroni on golden plate #11 (found recently under my bed when I was doing some cleaning, but I´m afraid I´m not allowed to show it to anyone)
This way you will never convince me! Why should I believe you instead of Joseph Smith. He came up with the Book of Mormon and other revelations. Your hands are completely empty.
If you want to believe in the 11th plate under your bed, that's all right for me. Why don't you Antis simply let us believe what we want to? This is called tolerance, you know?
Oh, we are tolerant.... we tolerate that you believe in nonsense. But we don´t need to tolerate the nonsense itself.
2+2 will never be 5, no matter how hard you pray.
And why don´t we leave you alone? Because YOU send your brainwashed children out to "missionize" us. You just want to be left alone when running out of arguments
You know, basically we Mormons are very simple people. You others are far more intellectual than we are. We can't compete with you. We are just happy in our faith and that's all.
Exactly! I really dont mind that you believe in such nonsense or believe that 2+2 is 5. But it's just that when you send your brainwashed children to missionize us, it is obvious that we will retaliate.
Of course we will leave you alone, but you have to leave us alone first. Deal? So please dont send your missionaries to spread your nonsense.
@ticklemypickles No offense but I don't see what horse skulls in Mongolia have to do with the Book of Mormon being located here in a America. And don't get me wrong.. I believe that horses or something related to horses were here durring the time of the Book of Mormon. Its not like fossil and archeological evidences are easy to come by.
@MiSsMaStErY The bones mentioned in this video were found in the Lol Tun caves in Mesoamerica. They mention the lack of horse bones in Mongolia when there were supposed to be a plethora living there, in relation to what we might find elsewhere.
@MiSsMaStErY I just looked it up and there were in fact horses in those caves. The civilization of Loltun dates back to about 10,000 years which could have easily had horses. I know horses in the Americas do date back to at least 54 million years.
ahaha! what a bunch of crap.. they are grasping at straws at this point.. it's been PROVEN time and time again that the events in the book of mormon could not possibly have taken place and that's a fact this is fiction.
Poor anit-mormon apostate christians...you will never stop until you face the Saviour and be shown just how futile your lies and deceit are and then you will wish the mountains could cover you as it says in the scriptures.
I would love to see on the Discovery Channel a historical documentary on the BoM. But there will never be one(sigh),because there is no evidence to support the BoM.
"Compare Isaiah" - This always bothered me that whole sections in Nephi are identical to sections in Isaiah because the possibility of copying exists.
"This always bothered me that...whole sections in Isaiah because the possibility of copying exists."
The plates that Nephi returned to get were in fact part of the Old Testament. Nephi loved Isaiah, so much he copied his favorite sections in hope people will pay close attention to them. Isn't ironic the BoM gets criticized for not resembling God's word and yet within are identical replicas of Isaiah and people criticize it for coping? Try truly reading it.
I can't answer that, only JS could. I don't know if after the translation they compared Isaiah in the KJV of the Bible and saw that they were so close that they just used the Bible for spelling and punctuation. You can let it bother you if you like, but as for me it doesn't change my conformation from the Spirit of its truthfulness.
So are you saying that it is utterly impossible that Nephi could have had the writings and teachings of Isaiah? If the words of the prophets aren't supposed to be written down and read to teach people the important principles of the gospel, then what are they for?
ok, last thing I need is a bunch of white only club people, trying to tell the story about horses that my people may have used. Unfortunately, we are semeitc people. We are not caucasoids, having their version where God turns whites int o dark skinned ones becuase now their cursed. You would think Mein Kampf was bad, but Joseph Smith is even worse since he is using God for his own evil work by bringing about a book called the book of mormon that contradicts the Tanahk. God loves all people.
Islamsucks911? With a name that shows so little respect for others, why should we take anything else you say seriously? But you proceed to show that isn't an isolated incident, don't you? I am sure your mother must be proud.
Yes, God does love all people, and the dark skin isn't a curse itself, but the SIGN of the curse, just because the people who were born "lamanites" had dark skin doesn't mean they were evil. In fact one of the greates prophets in the book of mormon had "dark" skin, his name was samuel the lamanite. I guess people need to read the scriptures a little more carefully, to get the real meaning, and stop jumping to conclusions based on a little evidence.
The following is a partial rebuttal to the anti-Mormon video Bible vs. The Book of Mormon. Scholars go over evidence and discuss horses found in Pre-Columbian times, chariots, and elephants. This is an abbreviated version of a full-length video which FAIR will be releasing.
If a culture tha used domesticated horses existed here, it would not have resulted in a mere handfull of horse bones here & there. You would have massive numbers of bones found everywhere that people settled. You would have pre-columbian fetishes of horses found in Indian sites. Carving & paintings of horses would be found in Aztec & Mayan & Incan sites. It is hardly surprising that the Indians stumbled ont some prehistoric horse bones. The utter lack of horse artifacts shows knew no horses.
Just remeber also..no matter how much evidence there is confirming (and more will appear) the BoM is true there will always be those that doubt or try to disprove. Thomas didn't believe our saviour had come back until he touched the wounds...just saying :-)
schnucklefutz 3 months ago
apologies everywhere, as far as the eye can see.
pantload86 4 months ago
We do not find Book of Mormon names in Maya inscriptions for two reasons. First, few inscriptions are contemporary with the Book of Mormon. Second, they come from cities that are not considered by Latter-day Saint scholars to have been Nephite
TheSkepticChristian 4 months ago
The horse remains of carlsbad were not that of the extinct native American ass. The Carlsbad horse was of Old World stock.
scotticus80 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@scotticus80 I have a challenge for you,
Explain Ab Resistance or Plant Speciation without using Evolution
TheSkepticChristian 4 months ago
The horse remains in Carlsbad dates to between 1625 and 1705. The Spanish started bring horses in 1493. Carlsbad isnt far from the Spanish conquered Mexico. The horse was buried ritualistically along with a burro, both aquired from the spanish.
scotticus80 6 months ago
This remains date to the last ice age along with mammoth and bison remains found within the cave, thousands of years before the Mayans or the Jaredites. These apologists are either very flawed in their research techniques or lying sacks of shit.
scotticus80 6 months ago
@scotticus80 "Woolly Mammoth Mammuthus primigenius, Northern USA, 2000 BC." (Wikipedia) Check it out.
Also the Gomphotheres became extinct in about A.D. 400. in South America,
"Please note that reference is made to a potential pre-Columbian horse, the so-called "Spencer Lake," horse skull. This has NOW been determined to have been a fraud or hoax"
TheSkepticChristian 4 months ago
The horse bones found un the Lol Tun caves are actually the remains of the American Ass
scotticus80 6 months ago
"There is an urgent need for more men and women like you who will stand for principles against the growing pressures to compromise those very principles," Scott, a member of the LDS Church's Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, warned graduates. "Men and women are needed who will act nobly and courageously for what the Lord has defined as right, not for what is politically correct or socially acceptable."
omiolo 9 months ago
Provo - Faith and integrity are vital to navigating an uncertain world, Elder Richard G. Scott told new BYU graduates Thursday.
omiolo 9 months ago
You guys are whacked to say you know the mind of God. All I know is that I love the Book of Mormon.
heyman537 9 months ago
Why don't you share the species of the horse bones found/in question?
I like to see DP, or any other human for that matter, ride the species in question or use it to pull ANYTHING substantial.
fudley2003 9 months ago
Two reasons are Jonathan Harris and Brock Kendall, who have been assigned to scour Alabama to see if they can find prospective adherents.
They are among 150 young Mormon missionaries working in Alabama at the moment. Along with thousands of others through the years, they are involved in what amounts to a rite of passage in the church founded by Joseph Smith.
omiolo 10 months ago
Is your mission having a reunion?
Mormon Times
omiolo 10 months ago
When did Lds talk about horses? Like never ^_^?
chrstilen5 10 months ago
@chrstilen5 "When did Lds talk about horses?"
huh?
omiolo 10 months ago
@omiolo I made a question....O.o
chrstilen5 10 months ago
Alicia Chang at the associated press.
bradleydjennings 10 months ago
They just found more in Los Angeles.
March 11th 2011
bradleydjennings 10 months ago
@bradleydjennings More horse bones? Do you have a link?
fairldsorg 10 months ago
Posted: Sunday, July 17, 2005 12:00 am North County times. Archaeologist Luke Piek of Gallegos and Associates, work on a horse unearthed Tuesday at an archaeological dig on a hilltop in Carlsbad on Wednesday Archaeologists working against the clock in Carlsbad have unearthed another nearly intact skeleton of a horse that may have lived and died 50 years before the Spanish began their conquest of California.
bradleydjennings 7 months ago
@fairldsorg So....did you get a link yet?
dzindzichvilli 6 months ago
In the "Book of Mormon," Helaman counseled "not so much so with fevers, because of the excellent qualities of many plants and roots which God had prepared to remove the cause of diseases" (Alma 46:40). The Lord is concerned for our health
omiolo 11 months ago
But that's not the image the filmmakers came for. When people think about Mormons, they already picture teens in black ties toting Bibles, riding bikes down neighborhood streets. The filmmakers were after something more unexpected that day.
They stood in the hallway killing time next to a picture of Jesus. They laughed at themselves.
omiolo 11 months ago
Why do people judge the book of mormon is it because us mormons are rightoues i need answers?
LarryC4608 11 months ago
Im convinced! thanks for this great video please point me to the nearest mormon for reeducation pleez.
broxxx1138 11 months ago
@broxxx1138 you can start with service to others.
omiolo 11 months ago
Imagine for a moment that your daughter was sitting on the railroad tracks and you heard the train whistle blowing. Would you warn her to get off the tracks? Or would you hesitate, worried that she might think you were being overprotective? If she ignored your warning, would you quickly move her to a safe place? Of course you would! Your love for your daughter would override all other considerations. You would value her life more than her temporary goodwill.
omiolo 11 months ago
The Young Men and Young Women Mutual theme for 2010 was taken from the book of Joshua. It begins, “Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid” (Joshua 1:9). This phrase from the scriptures would be a good theme for parents as well. In these last days, what the world really needs is courageous parenting from mothers and fathers who are not afraid to speak up and take a stand.
omiolo 11 months ago
“When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
“And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them” (Acts 19:2–6).
omiolo 1 year ago
“And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John’s baptism.
“Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
omiolo 1 year ago
"We were not actively looking for Mormon - or ex-Mormon - stories, but sure enough almost every single story was from a Mormon. ..
omiolo 1 year ago
It's one of the newest buildings on campus and takes in thousands of students each day, but most students don't even know what it is.
Completed in September 2007 at a cost of $20 million, the Tempe Institute of Religion at ASU regularly provides services, classes and parking to thousands of Mormon students each week. However, most students not affiliated with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have never seen the inside of the building.
omiolo 1 year ago
While conversion to another faith is a rather sensitive topic for Jews, it is rarely a topic of conversation in Mormon circles. Although both communities are roughly the same size both in the United States (6 million) and worldwide (14 million), Jews have endured centuries of persecution, pogroms and anti-Semitism, and continue to be targeted for conversion by well-funded Evangelical groups like Jews for Jesus.
omiolo 1 year ago
Organizations like Jews for Judaism seek to counter these proselytizing efforts with varying degrees of success.
omiolo 1 year ago
Regardless of our circumstances, each of us has much for which to be grateful if we will but pause and contemplate our blessings.
omiolo 1 year ago
I visited one late one night. It was midnight, and I went to the nursing home, and the receptionist said, “I’m sure she’s asleep, but she told me to be sure to awaken her, for she said, ‘I know he’ll come.’”
I held her hand; she called my name. She was wide awake. She pressed my hand to her lips and said, “I knew you’d come.” How could I not have come?
omiolo 1 year ago
I think of her. I think of my father. I think of all those General Authorities who’ve influenced me, and others, including the widows whom I visited—85 of them—with a chicken for the oven, sometimes a little money for their pocket.
omiolo 1 year ago
am I missing something here? I thought The Book of Mormon was translated into English by the gift and power of God? Are you telling me that God doesn't know what a chariot is or if it was some other type of device that the Lamenite King was riding that God didn't know how to describe it?
rd1999 1 year ago
@rd1999 As with any translation, words are translated into familiar terms that the reader and translator is aware of. Take for example the word "road" found in The BOM. If it were a piece of equipment that was pulled by a beast of burden, the best and easiest translation would be a chariot. This is not an uncommon practice
fairldsorg 1 year ago
@fairldsorg Ok just for fun lets say that the Nephite word for the thing the Lamenite king was riding in was a "cuttinbux" and lets say in reality it's a travois being pulled by a giant ground sloth. If that's what it was God would have called it that. God knows English well enough to have described it what ever it was. He said it was a chariot, I believe God knows what he's talking about.
rd1999 1 year ago
@rd1999 But the book isn't for God who knows all, it is for us. Many mortals have a hard enough time reading it without having to take a history class to find out what certain things mean. It is much simpler, easier to understand, and does not change the message of the book at all to call it simply a chariot.
fairldsorg 1 year ago
@fairldsorg does that mean we can call spears a sharp stick...and call a swords, flat metal.
thaowtx1 2 weeks ago
@rd1999 "Are you telling me that God doesn't know what a chariot is or if it was some other type of device"
while I agree with you in principle, I think your inquisition stifles people from thinking outside of previously conceived understandings of BOM animals, geography and nomenclature. Something that I believe is imperative for answering so many of the unanswered questions.
omiolo 1 year ago
@omiolo These kind of apologetics do harm to the book by wearing away it's truthfulness as a historical record. More and more the Book of Mormon falls into the realm of allegory like much of the Old Testament. I accept the book as inspired but have trouble calling it truth in the same way I accept the new Testament as truth.
rd1999 1 year ago
@rd1999 "as a historical record"
I thought Nephi said if you want a historical record go to his other books?
omiolo 1 year ago
@omiolo The fact that 1 Nephi chapter 9 says there are other plates with a greater account of the history does not mean that these plates that Mormon took these writings from were assumed to be fictitious. Are you saying they have no claim on true history?
rd1999 1 year ago
@rd1999 "More and more the Book of Mormon falls into the realm of allegory like much of the Old Testament"
How funny, I find the OT to be the book of scripture with the most historical evidence and the NT to be the book of scripture with the least. Many scholars say the NT has NO historical evidence. The more I study Mesoamerican history and archeology the more I see how it parallels the BOM especially the so called Lamanite people. In fact, I was studying the city of LAMANai the other day.
omiolo 1 year ago
@omiolo you find historical evidence for the Flood and the Garden of Eden? You find historical evidence for the teaching of no death before the fall 6K years ago? Do you believe that Laman and Lemuel had their skin turned black? Do you believe Cain had his skin turned black? Why do we not see evil people being turned black today? I have every confidence that skin color is the product of enviroment as science reveals
rd1999 1 year ago
@rd1999 "Do you believe that Laman and Lemuel had their skin turned black?"
without question. Simple biology. Even you, if you ran around in the tropics in only a loin cloth would turn your skin darker, eventually your body would quit removing melanin and yours and especially your lineage would turn dark skinned. How would a simple farm boy from the cold northeast know that?
omiolo 1 year ago
@omiolo So your belief in the difference between the Nephites and Lamenites is a sun tan? 2 Nephi 5:21
"And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them."
rd1999 1 year ago
@rd1999 "sun tan"
Why are there different color skins? Is it from the sun and a few other factors? Or do you NOT believe that the sun has ANY effect on skin color? I think you have a preconceived notion and you are willing to throw out SCIENCE to keep it.
omiolo 1 year ago
@omiolo I have every confidence that skin color is the product of environment and not a cursing from God.
The posterity of Nephi and Lamen lived in the same area under the same sun their babies would have been born the same color, sun exposure is no explanation. Where do you think the idea comes from that the Book of Mormon describes a struggle between a dark and light skinned people?
rd1999 1 year ago
@"The posterity of Nephi and Lamen lived in the same area under the same sun"
One group wore loin cloths. Right?
omiolo 1 year ago
@omiolo The men wore loin cloths in battle and shaved their heads. It doesn't say anything about what they wore on a daily basis, I would imagine they dressed the same as the Nephites. Do you read into this one obscure scripture that the women where wearing loin cloths too? Do you think the Lamenites and the Nephites dressed their babies different? I'm amazed at the kind of one track thinking you have. Does reality mean anything to you?
rd1999 1 year ago
@rd1999 Enos 1:20
"feeding upon beasts of prey; dwelling in tents, and wandering about in the wilderness with a short skin girdle about their loins and their heads shaven; and their skill was in the bow, and in the cimeter, and the ax. And many of them did eat nothing save it was raw meat; and they were continually seeking to destroy us."
omiolo 11 months ago
@omiolo Yep by a curse given by god cause of there wickediness
LarryC4608 11 months ago
Beautiful music touches me that way.
My beloved brothers and sisters, we have heard inspired messages of truth, of hope, and of love. Our thoughts have turned to Him who atoned for our sins, who showed us the way to live and how to pray, and who demonstrated by His own actions the blessings of service—even our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.
omiolo 1 year ago
In the book of Luke, chapter 17, we read of Him:
“And it came to pass, as he went to Jerusalem, that he passed through the midst of Samaria and Galilee.
“And as he entered into a certain village, there [he met] ten men that were lepers, which stood afar off:
omiolo 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
ww w youtube com/watch?v=BwFruS4rpdI
Horses4life1001 1 year ago
Comment removed
min01008 1 year ago
He told of Jonathan Napela, one of the earliest LDS converts in Hawaii, who was taught by Elder George Q. Cannon. They became good friends like Alma and Amulek, Brother Costa noted, adding that Brother Napela helped translate the Book of Mormon into the Hawaiian language and organized a school to instruct missionaries from Utah.
omiolo 1 year ago
Nice!! no one can prove the book of mormon wrong
rettek808 1 year ago
@rettek808 Exactly, the only even considerable evidence the anti-Mormons have is the DNA thing, look at what all we have.
masterskyrunner 1 year ago
@masterskyrunner Even that can prove to be lacking as there is proof that DNA can change throughout the centuries, so its just a dumb lie when they say its 100% accurate.
rettek808 1 year ago
@rettek808 Yeah, and they weren't the only ones there, I would laugh if they were testing Mayans, who were already there when Lehi arrived.
masterskyrunner 1 year ago
@masterskyrunner "Genetic attacks on the Book of Mormon focus on the fact that Amerindian DNA seems closest to Asian DNA, and not DNA from "the Middle East" or "Jewish" DNA. However, this attack ignores several key points.
Lehi and his family are clearly not Jews. They belong to the tribe of Manasseh & married into Ishmael's family, the tribe of Ephraim. These tribes were carried away captive by the Assyrians, and did not contribute greatly to the current genetic mix of the Middle East.
majinish 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@rettek808 Nice!! no one can prove the book of mormon wrong
And the mormons can't prove that its right
yerabiggerjokefool 1 year ago
Elder Rasband, Elder Caussé, President de Feo and Francesco di Lillo of public affairs met also with Marco Scurria, an Italian member of the European Parliament and Loris Facchinetti, Delegate of the Mayor of Rome on Science, Culture and Mediterranean Issues.
omiolo 1 year ago
I know that sheep and oxen were very important in those times too. Then the europeans took them back to europe after they found them in central america.
Huphlungpoo 1 year ago
@Huphlungpoo sheep?
omiolo 1 year ago
Oh, NOW I believe the church is true!
KaelaCarver 1 year ago
Each year, worldwide, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints ("the Mormons"), hosts local youth conferences where teenage members of the church take part in workshops and activities where they can expand their learning, develop leadership skills, enrich their faith and values, and enjoy some social time together.
omiolo 1 year ago
This year, the Winchester Stake of the Church, encompassing congregations from Petersburg, Winchester, Woodstock, Front Royal, Charles Town and Harpers Ferry, hosted its youth conference in the Harpers Ferry area.
omiolo 1 year ago
FamilySearch Indexing announced that volunteers have completed 100 million records in the first half of 2010 and are on track to complete a targeted 200 million by the end of the year. The completed indexes and images are available for searching
omiolo 1 year ago
At least eight people were killed and 25 others injured when a bus went off a highway between the cities of Esmeraldas and Santo Domingo de los Tsachilas, in northwestern Ecuador, the National Police said Monday.
A 12-year-old boy, a 16-year-old girl, an American woman and a Belgian woman were among those killed in the accident.
The two foreigners belonged to the Mormon church, police said.
omiolo 1 year ago
@sa8668 Scientists have been "proving" the Bible wrong for years... until a scientific discovery is made that proves that they were wrong and perhaps there IS a God who knows what He's talking about. The same will be and is being said for the Book of Mromon, although those who don't want to believe wont, no matter how obvious the "proof".
mrmn8honeybee 1 year ago
Dylan McMurtry, a junior from Oregon studying political science, said, “My favorite part was having Sunday devotionals. There was a chance for us to bear our testimonies through word and music.”
omiolo 1 year ago
While the choir members spent much time touring, performing, and being broadcast over the local radio and television stations, they also made time to meet with individual members of the LDS Church in the stakes they visited, as well as strengthen their own testimonies.
omiolo 1 year ago
"I really enjoyed the exchange we did with Feng Chia University in Taichung, Taiwan,” says Dustin Geddes, a recent graduate in accounting from Utah. “I got to perform a traditional lion dance, and I became fast friends with the some of the students there as well as the local high school kids we were grouped up with. I kept them laughing with my ironic humor and my ineptitude at dancing as a lion. It was a blast!"
omiolo 1 year ago
The Book of Mormon is the true word of God and why do we need limited knowledge scientists to study on a secular level. If you don't believe in the Book of Mormon, believe in Christ, if you Believe in Christ, then YOU will believe in the Book of Mormon
1MormonT 1 year ago
@1MormonT Very true . Must read the Book of Mormon and know it's truths that way . Just helps to get people over there hang ups so they will read it . A lot of liers out there.
mormonboy08 1 year ago
Could someone please produce some photos of these horse bones, Thanks
manowar40 1 year ago
@manowar40 K I will send u some sites
haidermann1 1 year ago
The change that took place at church headquarters, the manner that we find manifest in the way that we do business today, was initiated in 1972 when the Church Historian's Office became the Church Historical Department and the department moved from the Church Administration Building to the new Church Office Building and with it, a professional staff was created for taking care of our history
omiolo 1 year ago
I couldn't find my photograph of the church archival staff at the same time to demonstrate that it was a multi-tiered effort and was not just Leonard Arrington and group of professional historians, but there were professional archivists and librarians as well, and in many ways they served as the platform to create an environment whereby the church could not only produce an excellent and defendable history, but could ensure that it was preserved.
omiolo 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Unbelievable. Still not a single piece of hard evidence pointing to the existence of what the BOM claims. Chariots could be anything, not what we picture from the movies he says. Elephants existed on an island off of Siberia 1700 BC, so maybe they could have in American too, he says. Horse bones found in Mayan ruins, but even he says this doesn't prove anything (maybe not all ice age horses became extinct). Again, another video that doesn't provide a single hard artifact.
Elhardt 1 year ago
Do Mormons believe that the earth is more than 6,000 years old? If so this cannot be compatable with the bible.
PhilipK100 1 year ago
@PhilipK100 The answer is simple and confusing at the same time: Some believe the earth is 6000 years old, others believe it is much older. Both groups are faithful Latter-day Saints. It all depends on whether you take the account of the creation literally or figuratively. This may surprise you, but we have a comparatively open belief system with relatively few dogmas.
Troul478 1 year ago
Why not? The translation of the word for "Day" in Genesis 1 is in Hebrew a word, that also means "Day" and "period" . If we translate it literally with "day", we should use the other term also.
The earth and the life on it was created in six periods of time.
Juengerchristi 1 year ago
@philipK100
Oh really? Well We say it is older than 6000 years old and it does go well with the bible.
LDSapologist71 1 year ago
@PhilipK100,
You also have to keep in mind that the year 4000 B.C. did not commence at the creation of the world, it commenced after Adam and Eve were cast out of the Garden of Eden. Adam and Eve could have dwelt in the Garden of Eden millions, billions, even trillions of years before partaking of the forbidden fruit. This is just a possibility, not a fact.
05lowell 1 year ago
You've been around just under 2 years, and have 4 subscribers
I've been around just under 2 months, and have 18 subscribers
TheTruthPusher 1 year ago
And lets not forget the camel bones found in America,
or the elephant bones for that matter, or the elephant statues
of the Mayan Rain God "Chac" down in cnetral america,
where it's too hot to where woooly mammath coats,
Or than none have ever even been found with hair,
other than that a normal elephant would have, and these were frozen in solid ice.
TheTruthPusher 2 years ago
no on your page, look, there is me and a few others, and me the freak, atleast I'm not some dumbass who reads everybody's messages... get a life...
PS: it's wear not where...who learned you English?
theYguy300 1 year ago
ha ha ha,
I don't even read my own messages, you had to point them out to me.
Ha, you went to my page, posted and read, then pointed out I had messages,
then condemned those who read other people's messages.
You're a riot, can I befriend you just for laughs?
"Where" I says! (If you can steal the word "gay", I can spell creative)
TheTruthPusher 1 year ago
Joseph Smith believed that the Book of Mormon took place in Central America at least since 1842.
"We have found another important fact relating to the truth of the Book of Mormon. Central America, or Guatemala, is situated north of the Isthmus of Darien and once embraced several hundred miles of territory from north to south.—The city of Zarahemla, burnt at the crucifixion of the Savior, and rebuilt afterwards, stood upon this land"
-Times and Seasons OCT. 1, 1842
Not a "new" idea
LDSapologist71 2 years ago
I don't get the relevance of horse bones in the "upper midwest" to pertain to a Central American narrative. I just think horses and chariots are a real stretch, kind of like how apologists point to wheeled toys as evidence of battle chariots. Roads are NOT evidence of anything other than travel. Pointing to Hebrew word translations to explain syntax from a MesoAmerican document is weird, too.
mattokc 2 years ago
@mattokc
But you know what's really weird?
Disinfo agents pretending to be stupid, when in fact, they are anyway.
Then they can pretend they're too stupid to grasp the concept of thousands of copper mines, wherein 500,000 tons were removed, by people too stupid to imagine a wheel, though their toys had wheels. You see? you see why you have to dope the people with fluoride? So they can be closer to your mentality.
TheTruthPusher 2 years ago
Ha ha! This is the best satire of the "scholarship" under discussion I've seen yet. Good one, TP!
mattokc 2 years ago
Those who favor a loose translation -- and it must be remembered that a number of members believe that both processes could have been used at different points in the translation -- believe Joseph received spiritual impressions and then had to formulate the most appropriate English expressions to convey those impressions
omiolo 2 years ago
Here are some things to consider: * When Oliver Cowdery made a failed attempt at translating, he was told he failed because he did not "study" it out in his mind (D&C 9:8). * The Lord told Joseph that revelation came according to not only the recipients' language, but also in the "weakness" of their language (D&C 1:24). * As pointed out in Issue 30, a word-for-word translation from one language to another would result in a mess that would be difficult to understand.
omiolo 2 years ago
While there are interesting evidences for a "tight control" over the Book of Mormon translation, there are also evidences and logical reasons to assume a "loose control."
omiolo 2 years ago
Loose-control translation theory and Joseph's language
omiolo 2 years ago
Seem like all they ultimately did with disproving the chariot argument was prove the plagiarization found in the BoM. 12 straight chapters quoting pretty much word for word from the KJV 12 straight chapters from Isaiah? Hard to imagine THAT not being classical plagiarism.
rodwyr 2 years ago
hey dumbass, what are mustangs... huh? they're horses. and they originated here in AMERICA. so before you guys make stupid remarks, study the nation's animals first. this vid is as stupid as another one that said that there were no cows in the Americas, when in fact, what are the Texan Long Horn Cattle, are they bears, no! They're Cows!
theYguy300 2 years ago
@theGayGuy300
And what about the Camel and Elephant bones found here?
Oh? And Chac the elphant God of Mexico?
Hey I have an idea, why don't I shove you up your own Bohemian Grove?
Watch who you're calling "Dumbass", I will surely put you in your place.
TheTruthPusher 2 years ago
You admonish people to study history, but then make the mistake of pointing to development of horses in this hemisphere as an obvious answer to critics--completely oblivious to the fact that the development of horses on this hemisphere was an evolutionary achievement millions of YEARS before history. To attempt to connect that with BOM claims is absurd, made even moreso by the commandment "before you make stupid remarks, study first!"
mattokc 2 years ago
@theYguy300
Mustangs are run-aways brought here the Spanish.
Get an education.
TheTruthPusher 2 years ago
you get an education you school drop out. And read my messages I sent you and maybe your IQ will increase a little.
theYguy300 1 year ago
Woow... Ya, mustangs totally originated in North America... They weren't , you know, brought here by the Spaniards and escaped. Yup, totally. You totally help helped your cause there.
korwinblue 1 year ago
if you studied horses like i did dumbfuck, you'll find out that horses did originate there at one time, when the Earth was one many species originated there. There is a big debate in the science community about it, because it turned out at one time, the mustang horse did originate there, so they are wanting to classify it as a wild horse. Another thing funny is if you compare the two, mustang and Spanish mustang, they look totally different! and their dna is different too. Case closed.
theYguy300 1 year ago
@theYguy300 It's called evolution.And no, horses did not "originate" in North America.
korwinblue 1 year ago
it's actually pretty common knowledge now days, that horses, now called hot blooded horses did exist in america
TrackManiaMon 2 years ago
The Lamanites probably ate The Horses, and used the bones for tools or something....lol
brian8793 2 years ago
that's pretty much what happened, they were hunted
TrackManiaMon 2 years ago
Just speculation ya know. I try not to spend much time contemplating stuff that is IRRELEVANT.
I'm more worried about finding a women that is temple worthy, and starting a family:) Oh yeah, and serving Christ, first and foremost.
God Bless man.....
brian8793 2 years ago
AMEN! yes thats what i have to tell a lot of people, it is irrelevant information, and if you were meant to know you would know.
Menokokoro 2 years ago
Why would God leave blatent evidence of Nephites everywhere? Why would he leave gold plates in the hands of Joseph in New York?
People would see this BLATENT evidence, and feel like they had to go to Church or something. They might feel like they didn't need The Holy Ghost.
Who knows what the negetive consequences would be in having all of this worldly evidence in the hands of humans?
Only God does, and I do not question God.
Peace brother:)
brian8793 2 years ago
Not once in The Bible does God put a prerequisite on faith and love by first finding "scientific evidence."
If a person doesn't understand why The Saints were commanded to practice polygamy, or why black weren't responsible for The Priesthood until 1978, than they aren't using critical thought.
People who look at the Church through "wordly" eyes will never soften their heart and allow the holy ghost to manifest itself.
Imagine looking at the story of Jericho through worldy eyes?LOL
brian8793 2 years ago
Why do people think that there would be all of this evidence laying around? All of the Nephites died.
I'm sure The Lamanites melted the coins and other metals, and salvaged the rest of the stuff.
brian8793 2 years ago
allezago:
Right on the money, my friend. I was in Mongolia, where there are more livestock than people, and Mongolians will tell you that even in the times of Chinigis Khan (that's his real name btw), horse remains were not often encountered, if at all.
jinheneamerican 2 years ago
The scripture of not teaching another doctrine other than the one Paul taught, even if an angel taught it is interesting for a traditional Christian to believe, what with evidences of them changing baptismal rites from immersion to sprinkling, importance of temples, and the nature of God-- looks like the Council of Nicea should be included in those things not to listen to. That's why God himself came- no angel, but the God you claim to love. If he wants to give more, why not let him give it?
jinheneamerican 2 years ago
Was no battle in New York- most scholars believe the battle was in mesoamerica- whoops!
Also, the book of Abraham manuscripts were never found, and neither were the actual facsimiles. Attempts to deride the document by using other Egyptian texts that are completely unrelated but "look alike"- the differences are stark and apparent. Nothing on the subject is conclusive.
jinheneamerican 2 years ago
Brethren, great promises await us if we are true and faithful to the oath and covenant of this precious priesthood which we hold. May we be worthy sons of our Heavenly Father. May we ever be exemplary in our homes and faithful in keeping all of the commandments, that we may harbor no animosity toward any man but rather be peacemakers, ever remembering the Saviors admonition
omiolo 2 years ago
And he that receiveth my Father receiveth my Fathers kingdom; therefore all that my Father hath shall be given unto him
omiolo 2 years ago
oh please... there are no bones.
so now let's see the evidence of the big battle in new york lol
smoknchick 2 years ago
@smoknchick
that is what I find funny about you ANTImormons. In order to be right you have to twist our doctrines and then pretend you are experts in mesoamerican archeology.
omiolo 2 years ago
no matter what you do, you will never clear up the book of Abraham blunder. If you clear that up i might believe you.... NOT!!!!
dwhite2173 2 years ago
Oh! My god what a great video!!
Please post more of these videos!!
legalrule 2 years ago
He just told you the things you see on the movies are not correct. Stop basing info on what you watch on the screen.
webber345 2 years ago
Isn't this just grasping? Why would proving horses existed in N.A. during BOM times prove the rest of the book is true. The book was a fake job... accept it... and bow down to your new master... The Flying Spaghetti Monster.
GawdOfThunder 2 years ago
You're right, it wouldn't, but I always hear people bring up this argument as evidence against it.
mpoulse 2 years ago
But why should your ignorance prove the Book of Mormon untrue?
Troul478 2 years ago
I've researched BoM and it's all been faked by a convicted fraud (Joe Smith) How can any intelligent person believe this stuff??? ..... oh excuse me.... I think I just answered my own question....
GawdOfThunder 2 years ago
Anyone interested in this video, will also be interested in a lecture given by Wade Miller on Science and The Book of Mormon at this years fair conference. Check out our website to read it.
fairldsorg 2 years ago 4
@fairldsorg Thanks I will . Know the Book of Mormon is true but helps to have this stuff for investagators
mormonboy08 1 year ago
This clip is all wrong and that there were horses in the Book of Mormon time..This clip destroys our faith in believing that the book of mormon is true..which not right.:DD
LarryC4608 1 year ago
@LarryC4608 I don't see how it does that. Perhaps you should watch it again.
mrmn8honeybee 1 year ago
Actually there are carvings of Maya on horses and with elephants. Carl Sagan in his book "Comet" states that the Mastodon (not the woolly mammoth) survived in the western hemisphere until 2000 years ago. That places it well within the time frame of the Book of Mormon
dcool446 2 years ago
Neither one of these guys are telling the whole truth. The horse they refer to was the size of a dog and had feet similar to a dog. The elephant they refer to was a woolly mamoth and wouldn't survive in a tropic region. These men are frauds as much as Smith was. True scientists laugh at those bafoons.
llarlamon7758 2 years ago 2
The most horse-covered land on the face of this earth, the Mongolian Steppe, has yet to produce a horse body part to 'prove' that horses were there. Too bad for Far Eastern history...we might have to discard the bulk of it when it comes to barbarian invasions.
allzago 2 years ago
A Hunnic princesss graveyard discovered in summer of 1990 in the Mankhan locality of Khovd province contained five horse skulls and other horse related equipment.
References can be provided!
ticklemypickles 2 years ago 6
Comment removed
GawdOfThunder 2 years ago
Believing in the Book of Mormon is a question of faith and testimony, not primarily of science. It is the job of you Antis to provide the ULTIMATE scientific proof that the Book of Mormon is NOT true. (No, it is NOT DNA tests of limited parts of the population.)
However, there are stunning examples of scientific evidence FOR the Book of Mormon. For instance, the Book of Mormon describes Arabian geography much more accurately than any contemporary of Joseph Smith could have done.
Troul478 2 years ago
Wrong!
It´s not science´s duty to disprove every fairytale that has been made up by anyone. It´s the other way: Whoever comes up with a scientific theory, a statement or a story, is required to provide evidence. The more absurd the story is, the better proof needs to be. Simple rules, revealed by Moroni on golden plate #11 (found recently under my bed when I was doing some cleaning, but I´m afraid I´m not allowed to show it to anyone)
chewwy2905 2 years ago
This way you will never convince me! Why should I believe you instead of Joseph Smith. He came up with the Book of Mormon and other revelations. Your hands are completely empty.
If you want to believe in the 11th plate under your bed, that's all right for me. Why don't you Antis simply let us believe what we want to? This is called tolerance, you know?
Troul478 2 years ago
Oh, we are tolerant.... we tolerate that you believe in nonsense. But we don´t need to tolerate the nonsense itself.
2+2 will never be 5, no matter how hard you pray.
And why don´t we leave you alone? Because YOU send your brainwashed children out to "missionize" us. You just want to be left alone when running out of arguments
chewwy2905 2 years ago
You know, basically we Mormons are very simple people. You others are far more intellectual than we are. We can't compete with you. We are just happy in our faith and that's all.
Troul478 2 years ago
Exactly! I really dont mind that you believe in such nonsense or believe that 2+2 is 5. But it's just that when you send your brainwashed children to missionize us, it is obvious that we will retaliate.
Of course we will leave you alone, but you have to leave us alone first. Deal? So please dont send your missionaries to spread your nonsense.
Chichiri520 2 years ago
@ticklemypickles what do horses found in Mongolia have to do with the book of Morman?
fudley2003 1 year ago
@ticklemypickles No offense but I don't see what horse skulls in Mongolia have to do with the Book of Mormon being located here in a America. And don't get me wrong.. I believe that horses or something related to horses were here durring the time of the Book of Mormon. Its not like fossil and archeological evidences are easy to come by.
MiSsMaStErY 1 year ago
@MiSsMaStErY The bones mentioned in this video were found in the Lol Tun caves in Mesoamerica. They mention the lack of horse bones in Mongolia when there were supposed to be a plethora living there, in relation to what we might find elsewhere.
fairldsorg 1 year ago
@MiSsMaStErY I just looked it up and there were in fact horses in those caves. The civilization of Loltun dates back to about 10,000 years which could have easily had horses. I know horses in the Americas do date back to at least 54 million years.
majinish 1 year ago
Comment removed
28thAUGUST 2 years ago
ahaha! what a bunch of crap.. they are grasping at straws at this point.. it's been PROVEN time and time again that the events in the book of mormon could not possibly have taken place and that's a fact this is fiction.
stevemallen1 2 years ago 3
woomp there it is!!!!! But even so I dont think that anyone who had hardend their heart against Christ and his true gospel will even believe a word?
marcopolo8765 2 years ago
These two "scientists" are hedging and hemming and hawing. Give me a break!
kidendo2009 2 years ago 3
wow,
finding evidence within a literary work fiction,
hey, it's like my literature class
:D
majesticdragoon 2 years ago
Poor anit-mormon apostate christians...you will never stop until you face the Saviour and be shown just how futile your lies and deceit are and then you will wish the mountains could cover you as it says in the scriptures.
imtherealthing 2 years ago
I would love to see on the Discovery Channel a historical documentary on the BoM. But there will never be one(sigh),because there is no evidence to support the BoM.
sldeyo 2 years ago
Radiocarbon dating does not work.
"Compare Isaiah" - This always bothered me that whole sections in Nephi are identical to sections in Isaiah because the possibility of copying exists.
passionfortruth 2 years ago
"This always bothered me that...whole sections in Isaiah because the possibility of copying exists."
The plates that Nephi returned to get were in fact part of the Old Testament. Nephi loved Isaiah, so much he copied his favorite sections in hope people will pay close attention to them. Isn't ironic the BoM gets criticized for not resembling God's word and yet within are identical replicas of Isaiah and people criticize it for coping? Try truly reading it.
martidw 2 years ago 3
Are the parts that are identical replicas of Isaiah translated correctly?
caprison 2 years ago
I can't answer that, only JS could. I don't know if after the translation they compared Isaiah in the KJV of the Bible and saw that they were so close that they just used the Bible for spelling and punctuation. You can let it bother you if you like, but as for me it doesn't change my conformation from the Spirit of its truthfulness.
martidw 2 years ago
So are you saying that it is utterly impossible that Nephi could have had the writings and teachings of Isaiah? If the words of the prophets aren't supposed to be written down and read to teach people the important principles of the gospel, then what are they for?
kyleiiiar 2 years ago 3
ok, last thing I need is a bunch of white only club people, trying to tell the story about horses that my people may have used. Unfortunately, we are semeitc people. We are not caucasoids, having their version where God turns whites int o dark skinned ones becuase now their cursed. You would think Mein Kampf was bad, but Joseph Smith is even worse since he is using God for his own evil work by bringing about a book called the book of mormon that contradicts the Tanahk. God loves all people.
Islamsucks911 2 years ago
Islamsucks911? With a name that shows so little respect for others, why should we take anything else you say seriously? But you proceed to show that isn't an isolated incident, don't you? I am sure your mother must be proud.
stevengodell 2 years ago
Yes, God does love all people, and the dark skin isn't a curse itself, but the SIGN of the curse, just because the people who were born "lamanites" had dark skin doesn't mean they were evil. In fact one of the greates prophets in the book of mormon had "dark" skin, his name was samuel the lamanite. I guess people need to read the scriptures a little more carefully, to get the real meaning, and stop jumping to conclusions based on a little evidence.
kyleiiiar 2 years ago
The following is a partial rebuttal to the anti-Mormon video Bible vs. The Book of Mormon. Scholars go over evidence and discuss horses found in Pre-Columbian times, chariots, and elephants. This is an abbreviated version of a full-length video which FAIR will be releasing.
omiolo 2 years ago
SELF DELUSION
greenpointguy 3 years ago 2
If a culture tha used domesticated horses existed here, it would not have resulted in a mere handfull of horse bones here & there. You would have massive numbers of bones found everywhere that people settled. You would have pre-columbian fetishes of horses found in Indian sites. Carving & paintings of horses would be found in Aztec & Mayan & Incan sites. It is hardly surprising that the Indians stumbled ont some prehistoric horse bones. The utter lack of horse artifacts shows knew no horses.
VictorLepanto 3 years ago