Im am of messianic faith. Tithing is an "old testament" practice: Never money always agregarian goods, collected once a year, and doible every third year (for the poor) and always bought to the storehouse (not the curch). Weekly gatherings is not required... this is surely a religiuos practice as the commandment says: we are to hold the shabbot at our homes and afterwards in th evenings meet in eachothers homes.. and conviene as a group 3 times a year: Passover, Feast of Tabernacles and Hanukka.
i went to a church of christ when i was about 7 years old,and like they say they have no musik they just use there voice.they said it was SIN then when we got in the car,my friends mom poped in some christain musik on some kind of tape.and guess what it had musik in it.i mean if they feel its a SIN too have in in church,then i would thinkits a sin too have it at anytime when it comes to christain musik.
Do none of the Church of Christ members realise that there is no one "New Testament" church, but that in the New Testament it speaks of the Body of Christ, meaning all believers as a whole, regardless of denomination? You did not once quote the Bible in this video, but instead criticised another to no gain. May God open your blind eyes.
@searinglead15 You apparently uphold divisions (1 Cor. 1:10) and reject the fact the Bible says there is only one body (Eph. 4:4-6), the body is the church (Col. 1:18). But, you believe "one body" to mean "many bodies". If that is so, then to be consistent, you must believe "many faiths", "many Lords", "many hopes", etc.
Wow I didnt get to the other videos yet, but man wow. If you're going to criticize this church or pastor, I would hope it wouldn't be because of collection days or piano music... That kinda hurts your credibility but w/e I'm going to watch the others and hope they are more meaningful.
Clearly this person is not well studied. He apparently hates the Lord and His kind of a church. Here is a great place to start studying - danvillebaptistky
Pianos...hmm..what else is the bible silent on? what about air conditioners? or overhead projectors? or computers? or microphones? or buildings with a sign that say "Church of Christ"..or a building for that matter...What about a baptistry? Why dont you use a river? Do you greet with a Holy Kiss? ...wanna get nit picky? there is NOTHING that prohibits the use of a piano.
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This so called preacher is misinformed and does not know anything about what the Bible says. He has his own man made doctrine. The Bible warns about that.
Why aren't you out preaching the gospel and winning souls for Gods kingdom, instead of picking on this church? No, I am not a baptist! I am apostolic. We do exactly as the apostles. by the word.
Look at all the time you have spent on all these videos judging another religion. Doesn't the Bible say "judge not". So what are you doing? God is THE JUDGE, not you.
As a pastor aren't you supposed to be ministering to YOUR church? Instead you waste time on this?
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@misspeanut100 Here' s your answer.....This dude is a false teacher. A Campbellite who believes in baptismal regeneration. He is a cult leader and not a Christian.
I was baptized in the Church of Christ. Preacher Norm,I honestly don't see the purpose of going to a Baptist Church in order to tell them they don't quite have it right. I don't think Jesus would have done that and neither should we.
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Shame on you for putting this video this is shameful Heaven will not be separated by denominations you won't find that there and Jesus is the only way to heaven Shame Shame the body of Christ should not attack each other repent you should pray for one another this is Satanic you should tell him in private and pray for one another Shame
Whoa! you mean they actually played the piano! NOOOO! They DEFINITELY can't be the church! Lol You need to question do they teach damnable heresies like "eternal security"(once saved always saved, and such like, to know if they are a true church or not. Do you preach holiness or hell?
it amazes me how people get kicked out of churches for asking questions to certain teachings. i got kicked out a AOG church for asking them to explain something in there doctrinal statement. i asked the question and they tried to answer but i showed them the answer in a sunday school class. the pastor didnt want to explain himself either as well as sunday school teacher. then some of members began to ask questions too. so they kicked me and family out. amazing false teachers who dont defendword
With no disrespect to Faith Memorial Baptist Church, I wonder why the CoC nutjobs didn't pull this stunt at, say, First Baptist or one of the other established churches where some of Danville upper crust worship? They wouldn't have been warned, they would have simply found themselves behind bars - no muss, no fuss!
Whenever one of these CoC nutjobs tries to talk to me about religion, I just tell them I'm atheist. They immediately leave me alone and start looking for a Baptist to bother. Sad.
Poor grasp of the English language notwithstanding, it seems to me from watching this video and observing the tactics of the CoC, you most certainly would NOT have been thrown...uh, I mean "throughn" in jail for asking questions. You would have been "throughn" in jail for not leaving the private property of a group which does not care to engage in the childish buffoonery that is quickly becoming the trademark of the CoC in this area.
Oh, for shame, for shame. I made a typo! It never ceases to amaze me what you guys will grasp at to find fault with what I said. If you listen to the audio of my visit to that church you will hear that the class was dismissed, over - fini, and people were leaving. You will hear that I went up to the preacher one-on-one and asked to talk with him. Then you will hear him starting the ruckus, not me. But, hey, those who fear truth always want to imprison rational discussion. Any typos there?
When are they going to realize that we arent bound under the Law anymore. all of that died with Christ. The 1st century church didnt focus on "the manner, and rules" or mechanics of worship. They focused on Christ. and spreading the gospel of the Lord Jesus. Do you not think that Christ's bloos was good enough, to Save sinners. do you think you have to add to it? Remember WORKS ARE FRUIT OF SALVATION. NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.
The Church of Christ seeks only to use the bible as its source of truth, not man made creeds. We study the bible and try to teach new testament Christianity as it was taught in the first century. I think anyone who takes the time to study the NT in depth will see how simple the plan of salvation really is. Hear, believe, repent, confess, and be baptised in Christ's death. Rom. 6:3-6 There are scriptures for every step but theres not enuf space here to list them all.
THe church of christ was founded in AD 33. Christ built his church upon that rock and that the gates of hell will not overcome it. The place was jerusalem.
The bible states clearly that u must be baptized in order to be saved. The COC are not campbellites, we are christians. Paul states that people are building on the foundation that christ built and are turning to another gospel, which is no gospel at all.
This is appalling. I'm sure there are hurting people in this man's community who need spiritual guidance and want to know the love of God, and they instead are treated to this hateful and ungodly drivel which, despite what he says, is just his opinion.
1) How do you know what I am or am not doing in my local community?
2) How do you know what counsel I give to people who are in need of "spiritual guidance and want to know the love of God"?
3) Are you judging me?
4) If I sincerely believe that what I am doing is right and is pleasing to God, what gives you the right to tell me it is "appalling" or "ungodly drivel"?
I have posted a reply to your questions at bibleqna [dot] com. I would encourage you to go over there and read it. You can also download it as a podcast.
Thank you Brother Norm, interesting opinions! I'll try to get around to a video response stating why I as a member of the church of Christ disagree with a number of them.
I am dissapointed with the word count of the blog (2215) vs. the number of words in scripture you referenced (1567 in NIV). I requested "scripture only" for a reason, desiring answers from the Bible itself rather than a man's reasonings. On a positive note I'm fairly pleased with your exposition on sola scriptura. (ctd)
I hope people study the scripture you cite for direct answers to my questions. I've read them myself, but sadly in the scripture (versus your 2215 word blog) there isn't much to speak to the topics I'm afraid:
No mention of buildings, broadcasts, song books, fourth night gatherings, or "culture" overriding commands/examples, and certainly no "expedients.
I still accept you as a Christian and a fellow member of the Church, even if I disagree with your opinions. Take care and God bless!
You say that my post doesn't answer your questions because there is still no mention of these things in the Bible. When you say "no mention" do you mean explicit mention of these thing? And if so, does that mean the only way things are authorized is by explicit statement or does that mean that since the Bible doesn't explicitly state everything we can and cannot do that we can do whatever we want?
Bro Norm I'll be honest, I'm not a patternist, as I can't find justification for it in scripture. To me the NT doesn't read like a book of law (Lev, for example). I had hoped to show a point by my questions.
"..we can do whatever we want?"
Absolutely not! Of course there are commandments, and I also don't want to do things that make others stumble. We can't just do whatever we want, but at the same time as a nondenominationalist I accept others who I think err because I know I err myself. ctd.
People have been seeking unity in perfection of doctrine for a long time. The fruits are denominationalism, even within the restoration movement. "Get it right, like us or you're out" is the mantra. It happens among patternist groups often:
Number of cups, instrumental music, song selections, support of missions, head coverings, "Sunday school".. the list goes on and own.
I'm not saying there isn't one truth or that we shouldn't strive for it, but only grace has the power to unify us.
i agree with becky333 100%. this kind of bashing is the reason why the church of christ has a bad reputation. i too am a member of this church and have seen this backwards thinking on display many times and it never seems to get any better. one remark that irritated me was the colletion one. now i see no problem with taking up a collection(if its going toward a benevolent operation) on wed. night. what if it was going to help someone? would the church just let the person suffer? grow up norm plz
I am a member of the church of Christ and I think this is TACKY. If you want to preach about why you believe you are "right" that's one thing, but public bashing like this, not very christian-like.
2011 is coming are you ready? Fuck off every body said the same shit about the millenium the yr 2000 y2k all that good stuff, nothing happened that hasnt already happened in history.How about me and you "jegjegod" keep in contact till then on the internet and when it comes and nothing happens I can say see the bible is bullshit, seriosly think on my proposition it wont be that hard to do..
And would you please spell "Baptist" correctly in your title? John was THE Baptist - the only one the Bible knows anything about. Not sure where all the others came from, but please spell it correctly.
I think he is going about this whole thing the wrong way - picking a public fight. This sort of thing should be taken up privately and arranged privately - not posted for the whole world. I can't imagine our church of Christ "invading" a denominational church, then start pestering them after their service. You didn't teach them anything, except now they think you are rude. You have telephones, the mail, email, etc to speak privately. You really ought to remove this video.
the question - show me one scripture in the bible that authorizes the church to have sunday school classes as devised by Sir Robert Raikes of Gloucester, England 1800 years after the church was established in Jerusalem in AD 33 ? Show me scripture that authorizes sunday school classes, I maintain this - sunday school and individual cups are just as unscriptural in worship as instrumental music is, I will use the same logic to condemn cups and classes that you use to condemn inst music!
May 21, 2011 is coming! Are you ready? This is a question we all ought to have in mind as we see the day approaching. The Bible says the day comes as a snare upon them who are not aware. Watching in the Bible is how we gain the light of understanding. Those who are sleeping and drunken are those in darkness in the churches who say no man can know the day or hour, but Daniel 12:4 says knowledge would be increased and we now know time and judgment as Ecclesiastes 8:5 Indicates the two go together
Hey Norm - Just out of curiosity - you say you believe in debates, right? Would you debate a subject like this - Resolved: the scriptures teach that when the church assembles together to teach God's Word, the whole church is to come together in one place, with ONLY men doing the teaching ? I want to affirm that. I want to deny this proposition - when the church comes together, the bible authorizes arranging and dividing the assembly into various sunday school classes....my question to you is;
Would you debate the proposition: Resolved, the elders of an individual congregation have the right to arrange and offer classes for different age groups, sexes, or interests, separate and apart from congregational worship, at any time (Tuesday night, for example) as an expedient, non-mandatory, and at their discretion? I would affirm that they do. For instance, can a group of people meet on Thursdays at 7:00 for the purpose of studying Revelation (male teacher is a given)? Just wondering.
I do not have a problem with home bible study groups separate and apart from the worship services, as Acts 20:20 teaches - we have two ways to gather for study of God's Word - public assemblies and Home Bible Classes - Acts 20:20 - Now, Here is a question for you, which are bible classes ( Sunday School ), are they public gatherings of the church - or are they house to house gatherings? What I would debate is 2bcont
I wouldn't make a fuss over where they took place - a home, a motel room, the city park, or some place in the church's building. I would contend that they fall under the category of expediency - to "search the scriptures" alongside the Ethiopian eunach "How can I unless some man teach me?" I would strongly contend that any such group be under the oversight of the elders because who knows what might be taught otherwise. Sometimes things are bad enough WITH the elders' oversight,
I would affirm that when the church assembles together to teach God's Word all teaching is to be conducted by one male christian to an undivided unclassified assembly? Can you show me how the Bible classifies the church in classes, is it by age, by sex, physicala ge or spiritual age, various interest groups, or what? Are Bible classes part of the work and worship of the church - IF so, by what authority?
To answer: they are neither. They certainly aren't public gatherings of the church for worship - there is no singing, praying, observance of the Supper, etc. And they aren't house-to-house unless one counts the churches' building as a house. No, I would not support split public worship services. No, Bible classes are not part of the worship of the church. As stated, I would actually oppose home-to-home "study groups" without the oversight of the elders.
If a group had home-to-home study groups, on Revelation, for instance, without any type of oversight, who knows what might be taught. Premillenialism? AD70 Theory? I think more harm than good could come from that. I'd much prefer the elders preview the material and speak to the male leader. As to when or where the study is conducted, that would be an expedient. Where is most convenient? What is the best time? How long will it last? All those are expedients under "study to show thyself approved."
maybe you cant find piano music in the nt cause they didnt have pianos back then. are there alter calls in the nt? are there crosses in churches in the nt? is there wed. nite church in the nt? i dont know you tell me
summary: this pastor goes to another pastors church to spy it out. Obviously the other church is doing much better than his so now he feels he has to find something wrong with it. This was a premeditated visit because he didn't put that whole PPt presentation together overnight, he planned to go over there and disrupt other people's worhsip. The Lord rebuke him for that, he is a divisive trouble-maker. YOU SIR ARE NOT THE NT CHURCH !!!
May 21, 2011 is coming! Are you ready?This is a question we all ought to have in mind as we see the day approaching. The Bible says the day comes as a snare upon them who are not aware. Watching in the Bible is how we gain the light of understanding. Those who are sleeping and drunken are those in darkness in the churches who say no man can know the day or hour, but Daniel 12:4 says knowledge would be increased and we now know time and judgment as Ecclesiastes 8:5 indicates the two go together.
This guy is not serious??!!. Please tell me this video is a joke. You can't take up a collection or have piano music on a Wednesday? OK, I stopped watching at 2:22, that was enough.
I looked and looked and looked and I just couldn't find where you're allowed to use powerpoint in the New Testament... I'm so confused now. My faith is destroyed.
Too funny. Good one, Micah. Why are evil pianos and guitars banned, but projectors and screens are ok? Just goes to show - it's all about the traditions of man.
Good point guys. Next time I'll forget the powerpoint...I'll just visit there to watch the false doctrine in person...you know, expand my horizons...add a little bit to God's Will...yeah, that'll make it okay.
We can see in our homegrown fundamentalisms the kind of obsession with doctrinal details that lead to violence in other lands. Signed: no relation to the preacher being criticized.
Sadly, the preacher is too much of a coward to engage in open and honest discussion. The number of people responding, or lack thereof, does not negate the necessity to carry out the great commission of Christ (Matt. 28:19, 20; cf. 1 Pet. 2 Pet. 2:5).
Once again, I would like to ask that you please clarify the "rev" part of your handle. Thank you.
Are you one that is willing to put your doctrine to the test of scriptural examination? If so, I would be very happy to have you come on my TV program with me and have such a discussion before the live viewing audience. If you are not local to the Greensboro, NC area then you could take part in the program by phone.
You assume that anyone not willing to take your bait is a coward. Perhaps we are too busy building the Kingdom to waste time arguing with somebody who already has all the answers, and is unwilling to learn. (2 Timothy 2:22-26)
And, if you are so busy "building the Kingdom" what are you doing on here posting all these comments? Why do you take the time to do what you defend the coward in the video for not doing? Again, are you willing to come on my program, either in person or by phone, and make a defense for God's acceptance of denominations? I deny that a person can be saved in a denomination, any denomination. Would you be willing to affirm that God is pleased with denominationalism? I await your reply.
Ah! Finally, we agree on something. This has been a complete waste of time for this "Reverend." I need to go practice the piano for Sunday mornings service - the third Sunday of Lent. I'm preaching from Exodus. I wish it was our female associate pastor's turn to preach Sunday night, so I didn't have to preach two sermons. I also have to get ready for the ministerial alliance meeting.
Yes, that indeed is a lot said in a short statement. I pray the readers of this comment chain will see the vitriolic, blasphemous fruit of denominationalism and will be converted to Christ in truth as a result of your spew. Thank you.
You obviously said everything in this statement because you know that calling yourself "Reverend" would offensive (Ps. 111:9). Just as is playing a mechanical instrument of music in worship to God (Eph. 5:19). Just as is the observance of Pagan holidays (1 Jn. 5:21). Just as is the disregard of God's word concerning women in the church (1 Tim. 2:12). Will you admit that your comment was solely for the purpose of trying offend?
Would you admit that your visits to churches is for the same purpose?
Look, I really was just trying to be funny. I don't take myself too seriously in online conversations. I find when people can laugh together, they can usually find some common ground.
You call my paragraph blasphemy. Do you really in your heart of hearts think that I believe my faith is evil, and I'm just trying to fool everyone in my church into going to hell? That really would make me a devil!
No, I do not believe that you are purposely deceiving people. Though many do. However, whether you are doing it purposely or not doesn't change the fact that you are indeed deceiving people through the preaching of false doctrine. No, I do not think it is "funny," but I do appreciate you revealing to everyone reading that you do not take your religion seriously. And, no, my purpose for visiting denominational churches is not to be "funny" or to offend. Again, the sole purpose is to save people.
1Thess 5:6, Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober.
1Thess 5:8, But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation.
1Peter 1:13, Therefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and rest your hope fully upon the grace that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.
1Peter 5:8, Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.
NT:3525, The NT uses nepho only in the figurative sense. ...in the five instances (1 Thess 5:6,8; 2 Tim 4:5; 1 Peter 1:13; 4:7; 5:8) nepho means acknowledgment of the reality of revelation and discharge of the resultant ministry in worship, hope, love, and conflict. (Theological Dictionary of the New Testament).
Mark 7:6-8, He answered and said to them, "Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: 'This people honors Me with their lips, But their heart is far from Me.
7 And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.' 8 For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men — the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do."
For you yourselves are Hypocrites. God command every truly believers to step-out-the churches. Christ has already abonden all the & the Holy Spirit is no longer present & no one can become saved inside the churches.
They have all fallen & have come all under the Judgement of God. Judgement begin in the house of God. He command every true believers
to "Come out of her my People" not to be PARTAKERS of her INQUITY or received the PLAGUE REV 18:-ALL. God has placed SATAN to rule all the PASTORS.
Another Harold Kamping radio fan it seems ... news flash, no church ever saved anyone at any time in history so why worry about whether people can be saved inside the churches? And the Bible never said for us to come out of the churches it said for us to come out of Babylon. You have the burden of proof to show that all churches are now Babylon. Which is not scriptural. Jesus said the gates od hell would never overcome His church.
To engage the preacher and/or members of the congregation in honest discussion about God's word in the hopes that some might repent from denominational error and be saved.
CAMPBELLITES = HERETICS.
jehovahuponyou 1 day ago
"PREACHER NORM", I'm just curious as to whether or nor you, your Household, Christian Sect-Celebrate Christmas/Easter.
kenstasia 2 months ago
Im am of messianic faith. Tithing is an "old testament" practice: Never money always agregarian goods, collected once a year, and doible every third year (for the poor) and always bought to the storehouse (not the curch). Weekly gatherings is not required... this is surely a religiuos practice as the commandment says: we are to hold the shabbot at our homes and afterwards in th evenings meet in eachothers homes.. and conviene as a group 3 times a year: Passover, Feast of Tabernacles and Hanukka.
Projectman2u 2 months ago
i went to a church of christ when i was about 7 years old,and like they say they have no musik they just use there voice.they said it was SIN then when we got in the car,my friends mom poped in some christain musik on some kind of tape.and guess what it had musik in it.i mean if they feel its a SIN too have in in church,then i would thinkits a sin too have it at anytime when it comes to christain musik.
CaliSweatpea 3 months ago
Do none of the Church of Christ members realise that there is no one "New Testament" church, but that in the New Testament it speaks of the Body of Christ, meaning all believers as a whole, regardless of denomination? You did not once quote the Bible in this video, but instead criticised another to no gain. May God open your blind eyes.
searinglead15 8 months ago
@searinglead15 You apparently uphold divisions (1 Cor. 1:10) and reject the fact the Bible says there is only one body (Eph. 4:4-6), the body is the church (Col. 1:18). But, you believe "one body" to mean "many bodies". If that is so, then to be consistent, you must believe "many faiths", "many Lords", "many hopes", etc.
vhopson 2 weeks ago
your messed up
unlost 9 months ago
I cant see how someone can go to church just to find something to debate over isnt it a place of worship.......wow
brotheraa2002 11 months ago
Wow I didnt get to the other videos yet, but man wow. If you're going to criticize this church or pastor, I would hope it wouldn't be because of collection days or piano music... That kinda hurts your credibility but w/e I'm going to watch the others and hope they are more meaningful.
3g4freem 1 year ago
Clearly this person is not well studied. He apparently hates the Lord and His kind of a church. Here is a great place to start studying - danvillebaptistky
danvillebaptistky 1 year ago
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danvillebaptistky 1 year ago
Pianos...hmm..what else is the bible silent on? what about air conditioners? or overhead projectors? or computers? or microphones? or buildings with a sign that say "Church of Christ"..or a building for that matter...What about a baptistry? Why dont you use a river? Do you greet with a Holy Kiss? ...wanna get nit picky? there is NOTHING that prohibits the use of a piano.
spellbiff 1 year ago
He's probably buddies with Johnny Robertson..LOL!!
spellbiff 1 year ago
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This so called preacher is misinformed and does not know anything about what the Bible says. He has his own man made doctrine. The Bible warns about that.
misspeanut100 1 year ago
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Wow a Cambellite critizing a true teacher of the Gospel. Why don't you go dunk yourself in your salvation pit.
kingseller1 1 year ago
Pastor Ron,
Why aren't you out preaching the gospel and winning souls for Gods kingdom, instead of picking on this church? No, I am not a baptist! I am apostolic. We do exactly as the apostles. by the word.
Look at all the time you have spent on all these videos judging another religion. Doesn't the Bible say "judge not". So what are you doing? God is THE JUDGE, not you.
As a pastor aren't you supposed to be ministering to YOUR church? Instead you waste time on this?
misspeanut100 1 year ago
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@misspeanut100 Here' s your answer.....This dude is a false teacher. A Campbellite who believes in baptismal regeneration. He is a cult leader and not a Christian.
kingseller1 1 year ago
I was baptized in the Church of Christ. Preacher Norm,I honestly don't see the purpose of going to a Baptist Church in order to tell them they don't quite have it right. I don't think Jesus would have done that and neither should we.
Will4fun 1 year ago
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Isn't Jeremiah Wright part of the Church of Christ? He said "God D--- America."
enigma413 1 year ago
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Shame on you for putting this video this is shameful Heaven will not be separated by denominations you won't find that there and Jesus is the only way to heaven Shame Shame the body of Christ should not attack each other repent you should pray for one another this is Satanic you should tell him in private and pray for one another Shame
gotautis 2 years ago
Whoa! you mean they actually played the piano! NOOOO! They DEFINITELY can't be the church! Lol You need to question do they teach damnable heresies like "eternal security"(once saved always saved, and such like, to know if they are a true church or not. Do you preach holiness or hell?
Ruddermanspeaks 2 years ago
it amazes me how people get kicked out of churches for asking questions to certain teachings. i got kicked out a AOG church for asking them to explain something in there doctrinal statement. i asked the question and they tried to answer but i showed them the answer in a sunday school class. the pastor didnt want to explain himself either as well as sunday school teacher. then some of members began to ask questions too. so they kicked me and family out. amazing false teachers who dont defendword
BrothaMinister 2 years ago
With no disrespect to Faith Memorial Baptist Church, I wonder why the CoC nutjobs didn't pull this stunt at, say, First Baptist or one of the other established churches where some of Danville upper crust worship? They wouldn't have been warned, they would have simply found themselves behind bars - no muss, no fuss!
Whenever one of these CoC nutjobs tries to talk to me about religion, I just tell them I'm atheist. They immediately leave me alone and start looking for a Baptist to bother. Sad.
MrHoldenJohnson 2 years ago
How about that! Baptists will through you in jail for asking questions. WOW!
PreacherNorm 2 years ago 11
"... through (sic) you in jail..."
Poor grasp of the English language notwithstanding, it seems to me from watching this video and observing the tactics of the CoC, you most certainly would NOT have been thrown...uh, I mean "throughn" in jail for asking questions. You would have been "throughn" in jail for not leaving the private property of a group which does not care to engage in the childish buffoonery that is quickly becoming the trademark of the CoC in this area.
MrHoldenJohnson 2 years ago
Oh, for shame, for shame. I made a typo! It never ceases to amaze me what you guys will grasp at to find fault with what I said. If you listen to the audio of my visit to that church you will hear that the class was dismissed, over - fini, and people were leaving. You will hear that I went up to the preacher one-on-one and asked to talk with him. Then you will hear him starting the ruckus, not me. But, hey, those who fear truth always want to imprison rational discussion. Any typos there?
PreacherNorm 2 years ago 3
When are they going to realize that we arent bound under the Law anymore. all of that died with Christ. The 1st century church didnt focus on "the manner, and rules" or mechanics of worship. They focused on Christ. and spreading the gospel of the Lord Jesus. Do you not think that Christ's bloos was good enough, to Save sinners. do you think you have to add to it? Remember WORKS ARE FRUIT OF SALVATION. NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.
spellbiff 2 years ago
The Church of Christ seeks only to use the bible as its source of truth, not man made creeds. We study the bible and try to teach new testament Christianity as it was taught in the first century. I think anyone who takes the time to study the NT in depth will see how simple the plan of salvation really is. Hear, believe, repent, confess, and be baptised in Christ's death. Rom. 6:3-6 There are scriptures for every step but theres not enuf space here to list them all.
TyDip 2 years ago
THe church of christ was founded in AD 33. Christ built his church upon that rock and that the gates of hell will not overcome it. The place was jerusalem.
The bible states clearly that u must be baptized in order to be saved. The COC are not campbellites, we are christians. Paul states that people are building on the foundation that christ built and are turning to another gospel, which is no gospel at all.
gcodee12 2 years ago
I have attempted to post responses several times--here goes again.
1) Your videos tell me what you are doing in your community.
2) You spend time teaching your opinions instead of Christ.
3) Not nearly as much as you are judging this minister simply because he doesn't bow and scrape to you.
4) Last time I checked, I had the right to express my opinion. That right is not exclusively for you and your partisans.
5) God loves you as do I. I don't love your attitude nor do I believe He does.
PaulNuz 3 years ago
This is appalling. I'm sure there are hurting people in this man's community who need spiritual guidance and want to know the love of God, and they instead are treated to this hateful and ungodly drivel which, despite what he says, is just his opinion.
PaulNuz 3 years ago
I have some questions I would like to ask you.
1) How do you know what I am or am not doing in my local community?
2) How do you know what counsel I give to people who are in need of "spiritual guidance and want to know the love of God"?
3) Are you judging me?
4) If I sincerely believe that what I am doing is right and is pleasing to God, what gives you the right to tell me it is "appalling" or "ungodly drivel"?
5) Do you love me enough to answer my questions?
PreacherNorm 3 years ago
Re: Number 4, please consider:
I sincerely believe that what I do is right and pleasing to God as well. What was your response? I cite your blog:
"..this individual is apparently part of a congregation that only wears the name Church of Christ."
".. you reject any biblical authority whatsoever and I can only conclude that you do so out of a desire to please yourself rather than God.."
I'm not angry with you for your words, and you aren't my enemy, however I hope you see my point.
FairCogent 3 years ago
thanks for fixing it
JimWiely 3 years ago
You misspelled the word baptist
JimWiely 3 years ago
Questions? I have questions, if I may be so bold:
1 Scriptural authorization for church buildings?
2 Scriptural authorization for youtube broadcasts?
3 Scriptural authorization for song books?
4 Scriptural authorization for Wednesday night gathering?
5 Scriptural authoriazation for sola scriptura?
6 Scriptural authorization for NOT lifting holy hands (1 Tim 2:8)?
Scripture only please since we in the CoC don't do opinions. (Hint: Maybe we don't have it all figured out like we think?)
FairCogent 3 years ago
I have posted a reply to your questions at bibleqna [dot] com. I would encourage you to go over there and read it. You can also download it as a podcast.
Thanks,
Norm
PreacherNorm 3 years ago
Thank you Brother Norm, interesting opinions! I'll try to get around to a video response stating why I as a member of the church of Christ disagree with a number of them.
I am dissapointed with the word count of the blog (2215) vs. the number of words in scripture you referenced (1567 in NIV). I requested "scripture only" for a reason, desiring answers from the Bible itself rather than a man's reasonings. On a positive note I'm fairly pleased with your exposition on sola scriptura. (ctd)
FairCogent 3 years ago
I hope people study the scripture you cite for direct answers to my questions. I've read them myself, but sadly in the scripture (versus your 2215 word blog) there isn't much to speak to the topics I'm afraid:
No mention of buildings, broadcasts, song books, fourth night gatherings, or "culture" overriding commands/examples, and certainly no "expedients.
I still accept you as a Christian and a fellow member of the Church, even if I disagree with your opinions. Take care and God bless!
FairCogent 3 years ago
You say that my post doesn't answer your questions because there is still no mention of these things in the Bible. When you say "no mention" do you mean explicit mention of these thing? And if so, does that mean the only way things are authorized is by explicit statement or does that mean that since the Bible doesn't explicitly state everything we can and cannot do that we can do whatever we want?
PreacherNorm 3 years ago
Bro Norm I'll be honest, I'm not a patternist, as I can't find justification for it in scripture. To me the NT doesn't read like a book of law (Lev, for example). I had hoped to show a point by my questions.
"..we can do whatever we want?"
Absolutely not! Of course there are commandments, and I also don't want to do things that make others stumble. We can't just do whatever we want, but at the same time as a nondenominationalist I accept others who I think err because I know I err myself. ctd.
FairCogent 3 years ago
People have been seeking unity in perfection of doctrine for a long time. The fruits are denominationalism, even within the restoration movement. "Get it right, like us or you're out" is the mantra. It happens among patternist groups often:
Number of cups, instrumental music, song selections, support of missions, head coverings, "Sunday school".. the list goes on and own.
I'm not saying there isn't one truth or that we shouldn't strive for it, but only grace has the power to unify us.
FairCogent 3 years ago
i agree with becky333 100%. this kind of bashing is the reason why the church of christ has a bad reputation. i too am a member of this church and have seen this backwards thinking on display many times and it never seems to get any better. one remark that irritated me was the colletion one. now i see no problem with taking up a collection(if its going toward a benevolent operation) on wed. night. what if it was going to help someone? would the church just let the person suffer? grow up norm plz
tollivertg 3 years ago
I am a member of the church of Christ and I think this is TACKY. If you want to preach about why you believe you are "right" that's one thing, but public bashing like this, not very christian-like.
Beecky333 3 years ago
Does anybody know if Johnny Robertson found out who owned that land at that church that the man said he did not want Johnny Robertson.
bass7899 3 years ago
one question for you.
If broadcasting your preaching over YOUTUBE isn't in the New Testament then why are you doing it?
Please be considerate to your christian brothers and Sisters. Your church isn't perfect eitehr.
God Bless
Riverfrog72 3 years ago
2011 is coming are you ready? Fuck off every body said the same shit about the millenium the yr 2000 y2k all that good stuff, nothing happened that hasnt already happened in history.How about me and you "jegjegod" keep in contact till then on the internet and when it comes and nothing happens I can say see the bible is bullshit, seriosly think on my proposition it wont be that hard to do..
G5ive1 3 years ago
And would you please spell "Baptist" correctly in your title? John was THE Baptist - the only one the Bible knows anything about. Not sure where all the others came from, but please spell it correctly.
bjobe1964 3 years ago
I think he is going about this whole thing the wrong way - picking a public fight. This sort of thing should be taken up privately and arranged privately - not posted for the whole world. I can't imagine our church of Christ "invading" a denominational church, then start pestering them after their service. You didn't teach them anything, except now they think you are rude. You have telephones, the mail, email, etc to speak privately. You really ought to remove this video.
bjobe1964 3 years ago
Exposing the BIP - TIST church? I thought it was a BAPTIST CHURCH? Baptist, Biptist, whats the difference anyway?
savinggrace4u2 3 years ago
the question - show me one scripture in the bible that authorizes the church to have sunday school classes as devised by Sir Robert Raikes of Gloucester, England 1800 years after the church was established in Jerusalem in AD 33 ? Show me scripture that authorizes sunday school classes, I maintain this - sunday school and individual cups are just as unscriptural in worship as instrumental music is, I will use the same logic to condemn cups and classes that you use to condemn inst music!
savinggrace4u2 3 years ago
May 21, 2011 is coming! Are you ready? This is a question we all ought to have in mind as we see the day approaching. The Bible says the day comes as a snare upon them who are not aware. Watching in the Bible is how we gain the light of understanding. Those who are sleeping and drunken are those in darkness in the churches who say no man can know the day or hour, but Daniel 12:4 says knowledge would be increased and we now know time and judgment as Ecclesiastes 8:5 Indicates the two go together
jegjegod 3 years ago
Hey Norm - Just out of curiosity - you say you believe in debates, right? Would you debate a subject like this - Resolved: the scriptures teach that when the church assembles together to teach God's Word, the whole church is to come together in one place, with ONLY men doing the teaching ? I want to affirm that. I want to deny this proposition - when the church comes together, the bible authorizes arranging and dividing the assembly into various sunday school classes....my question to you is;
savinggrace4u2 3 years ago
Would you debate the proposition: Resolved, the elders of an individual congregation have the right to arrange and offer classes for different age groups, sexes, or interests, separate and apart from congregational worship, at any time (Tuesday night, for example) as an expedient, non-mandatory, and at their discretion? I would affirm that they do. For instance, can a group of people meet on Thursdays at 7:00 for the purpose of studying Revelation (male teacher is a given)? Just wondering.
bjobe1964 3 years ago
I do not have a problem with home bible study groups separate and apart from the worship services, as Acts 20:20 teaches - we have two ways to gather for study of God's Word - public assemblies and Home Bible Classes - Acts 20:20 - Now, Here is a question for you, which are bible classes ( Sunday School ), are they public gatherings of the church - or are they house to house gatherings? What I would debate is 2bcont
savinggrace4u2 3 years ago
I wouldn't make a fuss over where they took place - a home, a motel room, the city park, or some place in the church's building. I would contend that they fall under the category of expediency - to "search the scriptures" alongside the Ethiopian eunach "How can I unless some man teach me?" I would strongly contend that any such group be under the oversight of the elders because who knows what might be taught otherwise. Sometimes things are bad enough WITH the elders' oversight,
bjobe1964 3 years ago
I would affirm that when the church assembles together to teach God's Word all teaching is to be conducted by one male christian to an undivided unclassified assembly? Can you show me how the Bible classifies the church in classes, is it by age, by sex, physicala ge or spiritual age, various interest groups, or what? Are Bible classes part of the work and worship of the church - IF so, by what authority?
savinggrace4u2 3 years ago
To answer: they are neither. They certainly aren't public gatherings of the church for worship - there is no singing, praying, observance of the Supper, etc. And they aren't house-to-house unless one counts the churches' building as a house. No, I would not support split public worship services. No, Bible classes are not part of the worship of the church. As stated, I would actually oppose home-to-home "study groups" without the oversight of the elders.
bjobe1964 3 years ago
If a group had home-to-home study groups, on Revelation, for instance, without any type of oversight, who knows what might be taught. Premillenialism? AD70 Theory? I think more harm than good could come from that. I'd much prefer the elders preview the material and speak to the male leader. As to when or where the study is conducted, that would be an expedient. Where is most convenient? What is the best time? How long will it last? All those are expedients under "study to show thyself approved."
bjobe1964 3 years ago
maybe you cant find piano music in the nt cause they didnt have pianos back then. are there alter calls in the nt? are there crosses in churches in the nt? is there wed. nite church in the nt? i dont know you tell me
filoIII 3 years ago
This guy doesn't look like a troublemaker does he? Noooo..Just a little on the chunky side for a legalistic SDA.
tezkingkong 3 years ago
Well hes not SDA but I believe hes a branch anyway shows how fast your to judge your no better than he is. lol
just kidding brother
God Bless
1cross3nails4gvn 3 years ago
Oh.., and your church is? I don't think so!
lmiddaugh101 3 years ago
There is nothing wrong with music in Church.
MannaVestimentary 3 years ago
Thats true.
1cross3nails4gvn 3 years ago
summary: this pastor goes to another pastors church to spy it out. Obviously the other church is doing much better than his so now he feels he has to find something wrong with it. This was a premeditated visit because he didn't put that whole PPt presentation together overnight, he planned to go over there and disrupt other people's worhsip. The Lord rebuke him for that, he is a divisive trouble-maker. YOU SIR ARE NOT THE NT CHURCH !!!
gnmtyf 3 years ago
May 21, 2011 is coming! Are you ready?This is a question we all ought to have in mind as we see the day approaching. The Bible says the day comes as a snare upon them who are not aware. Watching in the Bible is how we gain the light of understanding. Those who are sleeping and drunken are those in darkness in the churches who say no man can know the day or hour, but Daniel 12:4 says knowledge would be increased and we now know time and judgment as Ecclesiastes 8:5 indicates the two go together.
jegjegod 3 years ago
This guy is not serious??!!. Please tell me this video is a joke. You can't take up a collection or have piano music on a Wednesday? OK, I stopped watching at 2:22, that was enough.
gnmtyf 3 years ago
I looked and looked and looked and I just couldn't find where you're allowed to use powerpoint in the New Testament... I'm so confused now. My faith is destroyed.
IS THIS VIDEO A JOKE?
micahp14 4 years ago
Too funny. Good one, Micah. Why are evil pianos and guitars banned, but projectors and screens are ok? Just goes to show - it's all about the traditions of man.
revdavepett 4 years ago
Good point guys. Next time I'll forget the powerpoint...I'll just visit there to watch the false doctrine in person...you know, expand my horizons...add a little bit to God's Will...yeah, that'll make it okay.
rachrach50 3 years ago
you need to be taught the difference between an aid and an addition.
learlessfeader 3 years ago
Keep justifying away. The cognitive dissonance will eventually grow strangely dim.
revdavepett 3 years ago
haha dude, i love you. I was thinking the same thing...haha you just made my hour.
God Bless man.
krishanson 4 years ago
We can see in our homegrown fundamentalisms the kind of obsession with doctrinal details that lead to violence in other lands. Signed: no relation to the preacher being criticized.
DanLackey 4 years ago
And how many people repented and were "saved" as a result?
revdavepett 4 years ago
Sadly, the preacher is too much of a coward to engage in open and honest discussion. The number of people responding, or lack thereof, does not negate the necessity to carry out the great commission of Christ (Matt. 28:19, 20; cf. 1 Pet. 2 Pet. 2:5).
Once again, I would like to ask that you please clarify the "rev" part of your handle. Thank you.
PreacherNorm 4 years ago
Are you one that is willing to put your doctrine to the test of scriptural examination? If so, I would be very happy to have you come on my TV program with me and have such a discussion before the live viewing audience. If you are not local to the Greensboro, NC area then you could take part in the program by phone.
PreacherNorm 4 years ago
You assume that anyone not willing to take your bait is a coward. Perhaps we are too busy building the Kingdom to waste time arguing with somebody who already has all the answers, and is unwilling to learn. (2 Timothy 2:22-26)
revdavepett 4 years ago
And, if you are so busy "building the Kingdom" what are you doing on here posting all these comments? Why do you take the time to do what you defend the coward in the video for not doing? Again, are you willing to come on my program, either in person or by phone, and make a defense for God's acceptance of denominations? I deny that a person can be saved in a denomination, any denomination. Would you be willing to affirm that God is pleased with denominationalism? I await your reply.
PreacherNorm 4 years ago
Ah! Finally, we agree on something. This has been a complete waste of time for this "Reverend." I need to go practice the piano for Sunday mornings service - the third Sunday of Lent. I'm preaching from Exodus. I wish it was our female associate pastor's turn to preach Sunday night, so I didn't have to preach two sermons. I also have to get ready for the ministerial alliance meeting.
That ought to keep you busy.
revdavepett 4 years ago
Yes, that indeed is a lot said in a short statement. I pray the readers of this comment chain will see the vitriolic, blasphemous fruit of denominationalism and will be converted to Christ in truth as a result of your spew. Thank you.
PreacherNorm 4 years ago
You obviously said everything in this statement because you know that calling yourself "Reverend" would offensive (Ps. 111:9). Just as is playing a mechanical instrument of music in worship to God (Eph. 5:19). Just as is the observance of Pagan holidays (1 Jn. 5:21). Just as is the disregard of God's word concerning women in the church (1 Tim. 2:12). Will you admit that your comment was solely for the purpose of trying offend?
PreacherNorm 4 years ago
Would you admit that your visits to churches is for the same purpose?
Look, I really was just trying to be funny. I don't take myself too seriously in online conversations. I find when people can laugh together, they can usually find some common ground.
You call my paragraph blasphemy. Do you really in your heart of hearts think that I believe my faith is evil, and I'm just trying to fool everyone in my church into going to hell? That really would make me a devil!
revdavepett 4 years ago
No, I do not believe that you are purposely deceiving people. Though many do. However, whether you are doing it purposely or not doesn't change the fact that you are indeed deceiving people through the preaching of false doctrine. No, I do not think it is "funny," but I do appreciate you revealing to everyone reading that you do not take your religion seriously. And, no, my purpose for visiting denominational churches is not to be "funny" or to offend. Again, the sole purpose is to save people.
PreacherNorm 4 years ago
Thank God that Jesus didn't take religion seriously.
revdavepett 4 years ago
1Thess 5:6, Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober.
1Thess 5:8, But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation.
1Peter 1:13, Therefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and rest your hope fully upon the grace that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.
PreacherNorm 4 years ago
1Peter 5:8, Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.
NT:3525, The NT uses nepho only in the figurative sense. ...in the five instances (1 Thess 5:6,8; 2 Tim 4:5; 1 Peter 1:13; 4:7; 5:8) nepho means acknowledgment of the reality of revelation and discharge of the resultant ministry in worship, hope, love, and conflict. (Theological Dictionary of the New Testament).
PreacherNorm 4 years ago
Mark 7:6-8, He answered and said to them, "Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: 'This people honors Me with their lips, But their heart is far from Me.
7 And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.' 8 For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men — the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do."
PreacherNorm 4 years ago
For you yourselves are Hypocrites. God command every truly believers to step-out-the churches. Christ has already abonden all the & the Holy Spirit is no longer present & no one can become saved inside the churches.
They have all fallen & have come all under the Judgement of God. Judgement begin in the house of God. He command every true believers
to "Come out of her my People" not to be PARTAKERS of her INQUITY or received the PLAGUE REV 18:-ALL. God has placed SATAN to rule all the PASTORS.
jegjegod 3 years ago
Another Harold Kamping radio fan it seems ... news flash, no church ever saved anyone at any time in history so why worry about whether people can be saved inside the churches? And the Bible never said for us to come out of the churches it said for us to come out of Babylon. You have the burden of proof to show that all churches are now Babylon. Which is not scriptural. Jesus said the gates od hell would never overcome His church.
gnmtyf 3 years ago
May I ask what you were hoping to accomplish with this visit?
revdavepett 4 years ago
To engage the preacher and/or members of the congregation in honest discussion about God's word in the hopes that some might repent from denominational error and be saved.
PreacherNorm 4 years ago