Henry VIII attacks Luther

[courag1]

Wow, Luther thought the selling of Indulgences was robbery of the poor and a making a sham out of salvation. If you think that you can buy salvation, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn you might be interested in. Oh well, why should royalty be considered in this, they, like the Catholic Church have lived in jewels and furs when the poor had nothing to eat, how godly!

[Kenta19191919]

Gentlemen, let us not generalise too much. The recent economic turmoil is no different from any others in its fundamentals.

[LutheranStudent]

Have you ever been to Mexico? Other Latin-American countries? I understand that Rome cannot be so blunt, but that's the popular perception in Mexico and the priests seem fine with it. I was in Puebla, MX this January and have a photo of a sign in the "Church of the Laborers" that promises a person will encounter work on their way home if they leave a good offering. Show me chapter and verse on that one, please.

[RockyBalboa211]

@LutheranStudent: If it's an offering to the poor, then God aids those who help the poor.

[LutheranStudent]

I agree with you. The problem is that most mainline USA churches have all but given up an appropriate use of the law in favor of a social gospel. I personally believe that this mis-understanding of sin and grace will lead them right back to Rome. What you say bears witness to the idea.

If people's options are (1) remain in unsound Protestant churches, (2) return to unsound Rome, or (3) leave Christianity all-together, then I prefer 1 or 2 depending on the church, and pray that it's not 3.

[LutheranStudent]

OK, so granting that capitalism is tied to Protestantism, and that Protestantism is pure and utter evil -- what is a pure, theocratic, Roman Catholic economy like? Historically speaking, it must be feudalism. I wonder how that worked out.

Seriously though, tying economic systems to religion gets dicey. I'm willing to grant that capitalism comes with certain vices -- as will most people when you get down to it. But what it has to do with religion is beyond me. Two kingdoms. Two.

[LutheranStudent]

@NightoftheWatchers

I'm not exactly mainline, but the inner-city congregation that I work for is doing just fine and growing. I conduct Bible studies with dozens of Mexican immigrants who learned literally nothing about God's Word from their padres back in Mexico -- other than the idea that limosnas grandes can ingratiate God and get them a better chance at heaven. Que Dios bendiga nuestros esfuerzos!

[LutheranStudent]

I suppose that if you're not qualified to engage in a kind and intelligent debate, you could always resort to slighting comments made about an alternate viewpoint. Thus you could simultaneously deny your own ability to err while possibly cementing a Christian brother into his position against you (sic The Lutheran Reformation). Admittedly, my Latin is a little rusty. I haven't used the Vulgate but for comparison since learning Koine and Hebrew. Verbum DOMINI manet in aeternum.

[LutheranStudent]

I will thanks. If you care to forward me an argument regarding why you feel history has proven Henry VIII the greater of the two, I'd be happy to engage you. But if your goal, as I suspect, is to hurt my feelings for being a confessional Lutheran -- then I suspect you'll leave sorely disappointed.

[LutheranStudent]

Personally, I think Luther won out. Historically speaking.

[austinmra]

Your comments are appropriate and so valid. You make us all think.

Thank you.

[Lionstar16]

It's sort of funny when you think about it, Henry was awarded the title 'Defender of the Faith' for protesting against Martin Luther's attack on the Catholic Church but we have been a Protestant country since his daughter Elizabeth I (except for the brief reign of James II)

[DareToEatPeaches]

It's even more ironic how the current Queen still keeps the title 'Defender of the Faith' i.e. Catholicism, when she is in fact head of the Church of England. The crazy world of monarchy.

Also, I find it hilarious the way Starkey describes Anne Boleyn as 'sexy' :)

[Gvanillavodka]

lol

[austinmra]

Your comments are valid. England by all rights should have the Catholic Faith as its Religion. It will take time for History to correct the mistakes of Henry VIIi. It is critical at this time in History to hold onto the Christian Faith. Personally, I believe that the Catholic faith will be challenged greatly during this time. Christian Religions will hopefully realize that it is important to fight for Human Rights regardless of faith.