So Perle thinks it's a criticism that chomsky gives elaborate, thorough, well-cited responses, as opposed to his own colloquial generalizations? You can just hear the bureaucratic training oozing out of Perle's pathetic little brain.
Seriously, I am shocked and not shocked at people's reactions. fallacies seems to get the most out of most people. The people it gets a rise from, eat and bred and sleep it in. To the degree that they habitat it, they detect and like it. However it amazes me that you would come to a debate and then here a guy say, do not use records and then to say well he has an answer for everything in such a way that it is bad this is at a debate and people actually clap. I mean they clapped for that
It's true. Chomsky hogs the time in debates, but he uses it to educate the audience with facts, which was the stated purpose of this debate after all.
Thank you for these videos! I especially love the part where Perle basically says "I am sure Chomsky has an answer and will go on and on about it." Yeah it's called facts.
Sorry for making so many points in a row. This is the last one. The IRA and it's supporters are in the minority in Northern Ireland. The majority of people in Northern Ireland want to stay part of Great Britain. So these are not independence fighters as you suggest. This is Catholics versus Protestants. The IRA also terrorised the people of Nothern Ireland who wanted to stay British, which was the majority. So this is not a model for the Israel/Palestine conflict. Apologies for long posts
AS of the 24 September 2010 The UK Home secretary said : "The Director-General of the Security Service has informed me that he has raised the threat to Great Britain from Irish-related terrorism from moderate to substantial, meaning that an attack is a strong possibility.
This is not slushy made for TV movie where we acknowledge people's feelings and rights, then we kiss and makeup! It keeps going until one wins , or does n't care anymore. You can not reason with irrational cults.
i grewup with the IRA situation and survived one of the IRA tube bombings in London. I grewup with my grandmothers tales of hiding in barrels in ireland to avoid be killed by the British. There is cessation of violence in ireland not a peace. The situation is not resolved and I know this first hand unlike Chomsky's documents!. They still want the British out of Ireland. The difference is if the British left Ireland there would be peace. If the Israelis leave the Middle East Jihad will continue.
"There is cessation of violence in ireland not a peace. The situation is not resolved and I know this first hand unlike Chomsky's documents!. " I am sorry but you are wrong. They are resolved, that what it means to resolved. No solution has been found, that is different(more permanent), Resolve(temporary). I am sorry your family went through such a history however your emotional appeal is flawed. Your end assertion is not even backed with any support. They would still Jihad, Why
Thanks for your response My grandfather was a member of the original IRA. I live in the UK now but my family came from ireland. I am sending you a longer response via e-mail. The IRA is not the same as Islamic fundamentalists because they had something to negotiate. The Israeli/palestinian conflict is not about land. If the israelis left the middle east tomorrow the agenda would not change. The Palestinian people may be honorable, the forces which use them are not.
> continued. Chomksy and Finkelstein describe data points at very great length without ever placing them in the context of the entire curve or trend line. This curve involves understanding 5000 yrs of the empirical data of history which gives you an understanding of the normative assumptions of human behaviour. I really wish the world was as Socailists want it to be. Unfortunately we have to deal with it as it actually is.
Chomsky also make his observations with hindsight on a narrow dataset.
Perle addresses the point perfectly. Chomsky has never operated in the real world and assumes this is a game of chess in which he can engineer all the moves. Chomsky thinks the Palestinians for example will behave honourably if you address their concerns in the way he suggests. Perle knows better. He rightly says he has no solution. The fact is the world is better off under American self interest than any other regime. If the power balance was reversed they'd do the same to us but worse.
@cornelius596 Of course Palestinians will behave peacefully if we negotiate in earnest. There are two ways to end violent insurgency and/or terrorism, quickly by negotiating, or over a long period of time through brute force. The US engaged in the latter policy regarding the Native Americans- that is the US carried out brutal genocide and ethnic cleansing over the course of 200 years or so. Israel is doing the same to Palestine.
@cornelius596 A model of the former tactic was Britain and Northern Ireland. For decades, Britain only showed the IRA brutality and domination, and IRA ranks and violence levels went up, culminating in the decade known as the Troubles.After that, Britain changed tack and started negotiating with the Northern Ireland independence leaders, acknowledging their humanity and desire for separation from the Britain. The IRA then laid down its arms, and today there is peace.
Chomsky hammers this guy's 5-cent whistle into the dirt. Pearle offers little information or data and his logic is a series of platitudes and ideology. Chomsky is a free thinker and Pearle is a servant of the ruling class whose discourse reflects the interests of this class. Pearle's performance makes Alan Dershowitz look good. You can see why Chomsky is excluded from U.S. media outlets.
There´s one (of many) funny thing to point out about this debate: while Perle accusations of communism of any so-called enemy are rather absolote (everyone knows that the "enemy" today is "radical islamism") Chomsky´s insight about USA war crimes is still actual
Wow- casuistry run amok here. Arab states would RECOGNIZE Israel but not recognize their right to exist and, furthermore, that is not a concept of international affairs. Suffice it to say when your language must be this finely parsed you don't have much in the way of substantive argument. I'm surprised Perle agreed to this- even if you beat a pig in a wrestling contest you still get muddy.
although the distinction is only a couple of words, it's definitely not without substance: it determines whether Palestine would have accepted an agreement or not, which was a key point in Chomsky's argument about the US's meddling in the Israeli-Palestinian problem.
@gibsoncn They were offered a good deal in 1948, an OK one in 1993 and then a not SO terrible deal in 2000- those were all opportunities to demonstrate their apparent falling over themselves desire to reconcile with the Israelis as Chomsky and his cultish devotees insist makes up most of their behavior towards the Jewish state. Interesting use of language- "meddling." I thought we were to "engage" with the interested parties to broker a peace?
To answer your question: the Mexicans don't engage in terrorism to regain their stolen territory because the U.S isn't illegally occupying and brutally repressing the rest of Mexico while denying them national self-determination.
@fanniterrette The term "right-wing" is essentially meaningless to me these days. Is what Mr. Perle is saying really any different essentially from the modern view of Obama/Clinton?
@fanniterrette You're mistaken to associate Chomsky's sharpness with a correspondingly sharp expression of 'right wing thought'. He has repeatedly spoken about the narrow distinctions between opposing sides of the spectrum in America, and how often that very narrow divide is crossed in the Executive, stating that Bush's 2nd term was liberal, and that Nixon was the 'last liberal president'. Earlier in this talk Perle says he admires liberal expansionist doctrine. The terms mean next to nothing.
@DemilichFan: I didn't say anything about any "sharp expression of right wing thought." Does "dinner party clown" and "champion of violent capitalism" sound like "sharp expression" to you? Your misreading suggests that your ideological point was more important to you than anything I wrote. Your point is a fine one--I would subscribe to it--but I have no idea why you had to make it with respect to my harmless comment about the buffoon Perle. Cheers.
@fanniterrette You said 'right wing dinner party clowns' in reference to Perle, right? So, he's 'right-wing', right? Fuck it, it doesn't really matter. These are meanderings. My only point was that I disagree with Chomsky being associated with liberal ideologies while guys like Perle are associated with the right. In this particular discussion, I find it distracting, a source of atomization. I just assumed you were turning this into a liberal-conservative thing.
@DemilichFan. Yes, Perle is as right-wing as they come, but saying that obvious fact was not the point of my comment. Do you want "right-wing" to be banned from the English language? A more interesting point, as you alluded to in your first comment, is that by today's standards, Nixon was a liberal president. One has to be careful about such words, for sure, since they can be twisted in different ways. However, my use of the word did no such thing. I called a dog a dog. Onward.
Capitalism is not inherently violent... that is a total cliche. A socialist/communist country can and have been just as violent. I am a huge Chomsky fan too but government foreign policy and economic policy aren't tied together like that.
Its the warmongers and neo-cons like Perle that got us into Iraq... so your right about that LOOK IT UP PEOPLE PERLE IS A DEVIL HE LIED US INTO IRAQ!!!!
ignorance unintentially produces evil. Perle is an ignorant man and his policies produced evil. The american people by their ignorance followed the policies of men like Perle. Sadly, 20 years later after this debate, Iraq war occured in the same fashion as the previous wars. Sleepy americans keep on snoozing. I am hurt to see that Perle`s rubbish and sheer ignorance won the minds of americans. What have you been thinking. Watching baseball or the price is right?? Too sad.
I tend to follow the logic of Chomsky's points in most cases around the world. But, in Israel, the issue of water and security (related to the pre-1967 borders) is the unresovlable issue. Israel can point to history where Arabs have utilized the Golan Heights in ways to attack Israel from strategically higher locations. Also, the on-going beneath the surface anti-semitism in Europe and America gives Israel no assurance when such places give garauntees of security. And the water issue...
"Israel can point to history where Arabs have utilized the Golan Heights in ways to attack Israel" - Yes, in war time. If there can be peace, problem solved. Arabs can also point to a lot of location in Israel that were used by the Israeli military to attack Palestine, Lebanon, Egypt etc, yet it doesn't mean they have the right to annexate all these locations.
I agree there's some beneath the surface anti-semitism in Europe and America, against both the Arabs (A LOT) and the Jews (a little bit), but that's not very relevant.
As for the water issue, maybe, just maybe, Israel could, um, trade resources with it's neighbors, in the case peace is established, but that's just me, lol. Several Arab countries have terrible, really terrible, water issues, yet you and I understand that it doesn't give them the right to just go out and colonize some water-rich country.
Perle demonstrates the anti-intellectualist streak of the neo-cons. He seems proud of the fact he can't come up with substantial answers to questions.
Chomsky's a force of nature here, and it's just possible that Perle was slack in his prep, figuring his debating opponent was just some wacky leftist.
The nature of things makes me feel thhis is by choice or unathorized modification after the fact upload...in either case---a clear intention was made to disturb this particular point Chomsky is making regarding Israel!
As to Brucel1234's comments on how amazing American Freedom is, well that's questionable. Its is precisely the aggressive and self interested foreign policy that Chompsky outlines that propped up American culture and economy and maintained the US's position as a first world country and a super power. From this luxurious position, its much easier to have a free domestic environment because there is no rampant and violent struggle for power as is apparent in more impoverished countries.
Its totally symptomatic of Perle's defensive position that his argument turns ad hominem, he says that Chompsky "has an answer for everything", and reduces his own claim to a weird attempt at intellectual and political humility: "I don't know". He then makes alludes to the impracticality, or the futility of Chompsky's arguments by saying that he'll never convince American foreign policy makers. Pretty weak Perle.
At this stage Perle wishes he'd stayed home. This is slaughter but it proves one thing... that an opinion is not powerful because of it's logic but simply by who holds it - therefore Perle's opinion (as a central player in the administration) has been vastly more powerful than Chomsky's despite Chomsky's obvious superior logic.
The America that watches "America's Most Wanted" won't; however America's readers have made his books bestsellers. His typically sells out the venues he speaks at and is booked years in advance. The corporate media gatekeepers that shut him out have obvious self interests, as do the major party politicians he critiques. "Manufaturing Consent" by Chomsky and Herman explains that with stunning clarity.
i have to commend chomsky on his ability to have a civilized conversation with one of the biggest mass murderers in modern history. It really is amazing, compared to what happens in other countries, that he is able to openly criticize the government directly to one of the prime leaders in it. We should really revere that level of freedom that we enjoy in this country, despite the numerous problems.
well, the man served as mr. ronald reagan's and mr. bush's assistant secretary of defense, if i am correct, and both of these administrations mass murdered people in latin america and the middle east, thus making richard perle directly responsible for the deaths of thousands of people, something that cannot be said of myself, yourself, and mr. chomsky.
so, while Ron Reagan was president, people were mass murdered in latin america and the middle east, therefore, the assistant to Ron Reagan's secretary of defense is a mass murderer? that's not a logical conclusion. it's possible that he wasn't involved in the planning.
well, that is about a logical conclusion as i can come to at the moment. i can't imagine the assistant secretary of defense not having a primary role in planning military expenditures abroad. So, my question is, what would his role have been as the assistant secretary of defense if not what i have mentioned, sipping tea and watching war movies?
The "level" of freedom isn't there because the U.S. in benevolent, it's there because it cannot afford to shut out ALL (although it does shut out a lot of) criticism.
kcufmalsi:unless you can argue with Noam himself, subsequently getting destroyed like the rest of them when facts were actually discussed as opposed to rhetorical statements, your rants are merely words with no weight. You would clearly benefit from a logic/critical thought class at your local college.
Jingoistic, rhetoric filled, gripped with fear, isolationist, dismiss facts, etc...
This sort of behavior causes the things that you seem to fear, possibly creating your current philosophies.
I almost get the impression that Richard Perle had never heard of Noam Chomsky before this debate. If he doesn't have any answers, he should get the fuck off the stage.
At best I skim your comments because they're pretty much the same - long dissertations of ideology and hero worship, insults to my intelligence and challenges I defend my positions to your satisfaction --
i have read your remarks about socialism, communism and anarchism, and man, u know shit about all of those ISMs, and it's funny how u talk like u know a thing or two about it, lol.
You're a Juntos Podemos Mas member? Do you wear your pathetic 'Che the murderer' T-shirt to the meetings? You and Gnome are nothing but filth. Drop dead!
as if that were possible. The goal isn't to debate anything since your beliefs consume your brain like burning tar. It's your way to make me waste valuable time typing just to tell me I'm wrong. I couldn't care less about defending my beliefs, especially to nihilistic ideologues. And if there's anything more I hate than ideologues, it's sociopaths. Combine the two and all I see is red, also the color of Gnome's ideology.
What I hate most about Gnome is not that he's a variant of a communist. To call yourself a communist when not even communists want to be communists anymore is just odd. It's that he's a sociopath willing to lead children and dangerous cretins down roads of negativity and destruction for an ideology that's proven over and over again to fail on genocidal scales.
Chomsky says and I quote "If you want to know what I have in mind it's simple: independence". Find me one quote where he says that he's a communist. He never denied the holocaust he is just aware of that Israel have killed far more Palestinians than the other way around. Unlike you he is not blindly patriotic and critisises his own people when he thinks they are in the wrong.
I clearly stated your heroes ideology. You're nothing but a shill and an apologist. I hope you get paid for your ridiculous Gnome cheerleading~~> (WORKERS OF THE WORLD, UNITE)
For the last time - anarchy is a sad, unfunny joke. It's the most delusional fringe of socialism and an unfortunate lyric from Johnny Rotten, who specifically used the term to mean chaos and only chose it because it rhymed with "anti-Christ". Historically anarchists were kept at arms' length by socialists and utilized as idiot goon squads, as Hitler used the street thugs known as the Brown Shirts, whom he had killed in the "Night Of The Long Knives".
He does it by knowingly telling half truths and total lies, by denying slaughters committed in the name of the ideology he pushes, and by ramming self-hating dogma down the throats of young minds to create instability for its own sake.
Gnome calls himself an anarcho-syndicalist but it's a fancy label he uses to deflect from his real ideology of stalinism, which he claims not to be, yet he enthusiastically approves and promotes its history, practitioners and ideology.
If Stalin has an ideology it would be something like: "Everyone should be russia's slave, kill everyone who disagrees in work camps". I don't like communism but Stalin wasn't a communist he was a brutal dictator and a nutcase. If you see any resemblance between that and chomsky's views you really need help.
I'm sure Gnome pissed his pants in joy when the Twin Towers fell. Gnome doesn't present the other side of history as points of information or inducements for debate - it's a PR campaign for an agenda that's built on lies. Anarcho-syndicalism my ass. He's also a Jewish supporter of Holocaust Revisionism, of all things.
He rightly condemned the 9/11 atrocities and also rightly condemn conspiracy theorists who try to argue that there is a direct involvement of the US government in their organisation. He also notes that tragic though they were, they are insignificant compared to the consequences of US foreign policy. He has nothing to gain from the points of view he defends, everything to lose in fact. But at least he does his best to promote peace, justice and prosperity for ALL.
He never said the USSR was his "pseudo utopia". He hates their model just as much as capitalism. He criticises US policy because it subordinates third world countries to allow their natural and human resources to be exploited by US businesses and stops them from independently and DEMOCRATICALLY developing their own model. He never said communism or the USSR was good.
is ay good for that - Perle is more of a propagandist lacking facts and scolarship - Perle is not a scholar but rather a political animal whose recent illegal and coorrupt dealings forced him to resign from his defense job - check it out at wikipedia
Plenty of people are suffering just so we can keep the notion of a 'Jewish state' alive.
If it wasn't plain racist to begin with, its served only to create misery for all parties.
Palestinian refugees who have had that status for 60 years, and who live a couple of miles outside Israel won't be allowed to return because, being Muslim, they'll threaten the future of this 'Jewish state'.
4. CIA Middle Eastern experts/operatives that testified/gave evidence/professional opinion to the 911 commission.
Yes, he is a liberal dove but his supporters come from both wings. You could've also put Mahmoud Ahmadinejad as a prominent supporter. Maybe even Ron Paul - they definitely have the same US foreign policy ethos.
Cuba was an evil tentacle of the kremlin that wants to destroy the USA, then right after the berlin wall fell it was a contagine that had to be contained. This justified the longest ever embargo starving a country. Nobody skipped a beat believing telling the new story in the media. You'd struggle that obedience in NAZI germany
"Our race is the Master Race. We are divine gods on this planet. We are as different from the inferior races as they are from insects. In fact, compared to our race, other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best. Other races are considered as human excrement. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our earthly kingdom will be ruled by our leader with a rod of iron. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as our slaves."
-- Menachem Begin - Israeli Prime Minister 1977-1983
The right wing fears Noam Chomsky. He is undebateable; a living encyclopedia. They cannot deal with him. From Willian F. Buckley, the godfather of the "New Right", to this Richard Perle, Chomsky has rationally and systematically destroyed any semblence of argument for which they contend. Through historical documentation and recall he makes their neo-liberal agenda transparent and undeniable. You have to love when Perle was officially defeated saying, "he has an answer for everything".
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I used to be really disturbed by the far Left, they were always so strident, and so wrong. I thought that they might actually gain some real political power in the US. Then I realized with comfort and satisfaction that these Marxist lefties are almost never elected to any office in government. That's why the moderate left distances themselves from this nonsense; they want to be taken seriously and thereby elected to office.
Chomsky can't be beaten. As for "development models." How about this one, fuck off. You, the World Bank, IMF, etc, have no right to step in and create conditions that benefit the wealthy corporations of the west at the expense of the indigenous population. That was the point about the "snow peas" example. I can see why Perle didn't get it.
That 'useless professor' has a habit of making 'government officials and politicians and advisors' look utterly inept by exposing their lies and misdirection.
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haha, "good economic development model is a topic of an academic seminar", yah Chomsky, just admit you have no idea. Further, a good economic development model is the proper subject for government officials and politicians and advisors (etc.) to discuss, not useless professors.
Nice one. That's a really well thought out response. A useless professor from MIT who's authored more that 70 books, thousands of articles, revolutionized an entire field of academic study, has been recognized as the most important living academic in the entire world (according to a British publication) and is the most referenced living intellectual in the last 30 years. There is barely a government official alive who would themselves claim to be on the same mental sphere as Chomsky.
The jewish international bankers acknowledge that they, unfortunately, had to sacrifice some of their own people in their financial support of Hitler "but look at what we have acheived"
Today Israel sacrifices their citizens by continual harrassment of the Palestinians
KentAllard - The ironic thing is that Perle was trying to take a jab at Chomsky, when in fact his wry statement was the absolute truth. Chomsky's brain must weigh a tonne.
"I don't have an answer, and I think I probably differ from Professor Chomsky who has an answer for absolutely everything. And will tell it to you at great length" -- arsehole
What's R2D2 doin in there?
Frisbieinstein 6 months ago 4
is the sound quality fuckered for everyone else?
cornelius???, what a name, is an example to us all.
chomsky rules the marginalised world.
check "ize of the world"
P2ak47 7 months ago
So Perle thinks it's a criticism that chomsky gives elaborate, thorough, well-cited responses, as opposed to his own colloquial generalizations? You can just hear the bureaucratic training oozing out of Perle's pathetic little brain.
wolfyamadeus2 7 months ago 2
Seriously, I am shocked and not shocked at people's reactions. fallacies seems to get the most out of most people. The people it gets a rise from, eat and bred and sleep it in. To the degree that they habitat it, they detect and like it. However it amazes me that you would come to a debate and then here a guy say, do not use records and then to say well he has an answer for everything in such a way that it is bad this is at a debate and people actually clap. I mean they clapped for that
Ryukikon 7 months ago
im sorry but perles a cunt, you know some1 is loosing a debate when they resort to making personal shots and jokes. how pathetic
FukCommando 9 months ago
Ever since this debate, Richard Perle has need extra rolls of toilet paper, because Chomsky ripped him a new one.
shredderroy 9 months ago 2
It's true. Chomsky hogs the time in debates, but he uses it to educate the audience with facts, which was the stated purpose of this debate after all.
AnotherMasterMind 11 months ago
Thank you for these videos! I especially love the part where Perle basically says "I am sure Chomsky has an answer and will go on and on about it." Yeah it's called facts.
erik28com 1 year ago 3
Can we vote Richard Perle off the island?
BCsJonathanTM 1 year ago
is there a clean version of this
mondosolorzano 1 year ago
Sorry for making so many points in a row. This is the last one. The IRA and it's supporters are in the minority in Northern Ireland. The majority of people in Northern Ireland want to stay part of Great Britain. So these are not independence fighters as you suggest. This is Catholics versus Protestants. The IRA also terrorised the people of Nothern Ireland who wanted to stay British, which was the majority. So this is not a model for the Israel/Palestine conflict. Apologies for long posts
cornelius596 1 year ago
AS of the 24 September 2010 The UK Home secretary said : "The Director-General of the Security Service has informed me that he has raised the threat to Great Britain from Irish-related terrorism from moderate to substantial, meaning that an attack is a strong possibility.
This is not slushy made for TV movie where we acknowledge people's feelings and rights, then we kiss and makeup! It keeps going until one wins , or does n't care anymore. You can not reason with irrational cults.
cornelius596 1 year ago
i grewup with the IRA situation and survived one of the IRA tube bombings in London. I grewup with my grandmothers tales of hiding in barrels in ireland to avoid be killed by the British. There is cessation of violence in ireland not a peace. The situation is not resolved and I know this first hand unlike Chomsky's documents!. They still want the British out of Ireland. The difference is if the British left Ireland there would be peace. If the Israelis leave the Middle East Jihad will continue.
cornelius596 1 year ago
@cornelius596
"There is cessation of violence in ireland not a peace. The situation is not resolved and I know this first hand unlike Chomsky's documents!. " I am sorry but you are wrong. They are resolved, that what it means to resolved. No solution has been found, that is different(more permanent), Resolve(temporary). I am sorry your family went through such a history however your emotional appeal is flawed. Your end assertion is not even backed with any support. They would still Jihad, Why
Ryukikon 7 months ago
Thanks for your response My grandfather was a member of the original IRA. I live in the UK now but my family came from ireland. I am sending you a longer response via e-mail. The IRA is not the same as Islamic fundamentalists because they had something to negotiate. The Israeli/palestinian conflict is not about land. If the israelis left the middle east tomorrow the agenda would not change. The Palestinian people may be honorable, the forces which use them are not.
cornelius596 1 year ago
> continued. Chomksy and Finkelstein describe data points at very great length without ever placing them in the context of the entire curve or trend line. This curve involves understanding 5000 yrs of the empirical data of history which gives you an understanding of the normative assumptions of human behaviour. I really wish the world was as Socailists want it to be. Unfortunately we have to deal with it as it actually is.
Chomsky also make his observations with hindsight on a narrow dataset.
cornelius596 1 year ago
Perle addresses the point perfectly. Chomsky has never operated in the real world and assumes this is a game of chess in which he can engineer all the moves. Chomsky thinks the Palestinians for example will behave honourably if you address their concerns in the way he suggests. Perle knows better. He rightly says he has no solution. The fact is the world is better off under American self interest than any other regime. If the power balance was reversed they'd do the same to us but worse.
cornelius596 1 year ago
@cornelius596 Of course Palestinians will behave peacefully if we negotiate in earnest. There are two ways to end violent insurgency and/or terrorism, quickly by negotiating, or over a long period of time through brute force. The US engaged in the latter policy regarding the Native Americans- that is the US carried out brutal genocide and ethnic cleansing over the course of 200 years or so. Israel is doing the same to Palestine.
spartan2600 1 year ago
@cornelius596 A model of the former tactic was Britain and Northern Ireland. For decades, Britain only showed the IRA brutality and domination, and IRA ranks and violence levels went up, culminating in the decade known as the Troubles.After that, Britain changed tack and started negotiating with the Northern Ireland independence leaders, acknowledging their humanity and desire for separation from the Britain. The IRA then laid down its arms, and today there is peace.
spartan2600 1 year ago
Chomsky hammers this guy's 5-cent whistle into the dirt. Pearle offers little information or data and his logic is a series of platitudes and ideology. Chomsky is a free thinker and Pearle is a servant of the ruling class whose discourse reflects the interests of this class. Pearle's performance makes Alan Dershowitz look good. You can see why Chomsky is excluded from U.S. media outlets.
drjimiboy69 1 year ago
There´s one (of many) funny thing to point out about this debate: while Perle accusations of communism of any so-called enemy are rather absolote (everyone knows that the "enemy" today is "radical islamism") Chomsky´s insight about USA war crimes is still actual
Burdell22000 1 year ago
Perle was owned.
gwangjuboy1 1 year ago
Wow- casuistry run amok here. Arab states would RECOGNIZE Israel but not recognize their right to exist and, furthermore, that is not a concept of international affairs. Suffice it to say when your language must be this finely parsed you don't have much in the way of substantive argument. I'm surprised Perle agreed to this- even if you beat a pig in a wrestling contest you still get muddy.
rollotwomassey 1 year ago
@rollotwomassey
although the distinction is only a couple of words, it's definitely not without substance: it determines whether Palestine would have accepted an agreement or not, which was a key point in Chomsky's argument about the US's meddling in the Israeli-Palestinian problem.
gibsoncn 1 year ago
@gibsoncn They were offered a good deal in 1948, an OK one in 1993 and then a not SO terrible deal in 2000- those were all opportunities to demonstrate their apparent falling over themselves desire to reconcile with the Israelis as Chomsky and his cultish devotees insist makes up most of their behavior towards the Jewish state. Interesting use of language- "meddling." I thought we were to "engage" with the interested parties to broker a peace?
rollotwomassey 1 year ago
what does it say about american media when a man like chomsky is never on,while dershowits, perle,and all the neo cons are all you watch on tv?
utupeitupe 1 year ago
Wow, an intellectual pawnage the likes you don't see often. If this was a boxing match Chomsky would be Ali beating up some bum.
wildhippy 1 year ago
I wonder why Mexico doesn't engage in "terrorism" to try to regain their r stolen territory like the palestinians do.
celine111333 1 year ago
@celine111333
I wonder why Israel does engage in terrorism to retain their stolen territory.
snagglepus32 1 year ago
@celine111333
To answer your question: the Mexicans don't engage in terrorism to regain their stolen territory because the U.S isn't illegally occupying and brutally repressing the rest of Mexico while denying them national self-determination.
snagglepus32 1 year ago
@snagglepus32 NAFTA says hi.
DemilichFan 1 year ago
the audio went out of sync and you can hear chomsky's real voice. He's an alien!
Bellantoni 1 year ago
Perle recognizes his defeat at the beginning of this. I almost feel sorry for him. Almost.
mistermoen 1 year ago
@mistermoen well it was about midway through the so-called debate, so in that regard, he lasted longer than most of Chomsky's victims...er opponents
hpslugga 1 year ago
Chomsky never sounds sharper than when he is faced with one of these right-wing dinner party clowns and champions of violent capitalism.
fanniterrette 2 years ago 30
What an excellent description of Perle, I hear he makes an excellent souffle. I guess everyone has to have one talent.
n8glenn 2 years ago 4
@fanniterrette The term "right-wing" is essentially meaningless to me these days. Is what Mr. Perle is saying really any different essentially from the modern view of Obama/Clinton?
SoundCrusherPlanB 1 year ago
@SoundCrusherPlanB good point!
fanniterrette 1 year ago
@fanniterrette You're mistaken to associate Chomsky's sharpness with a correspondingly sharp expression of 'right wing thought'. He has repeatedly spoken about the narrow distinctions between opposing sides of the spectrum in America, and how often that very narrow divide is crossed in the Executive, stating that Bush's 2nd term was liberal, and that Nixon was the 'last liberal president'. Earlier in this talk Perle says he admires liberal expansionist doctrine. The terms mean next to nothing.
DemilichFan 1 year ago
@DemilichFan: I didn't say anything about any "sharp expression of right wing thought." Does "dinner party clown" and "champion of violent capitalism" sound like "sharp expression" to you? Your misreading suggests that your ideological point was more important to you than anything I wrote. Your point is a fine one--I would subscribe to it--but I have no idea why you had to make it with respect to my harmless comment about the buffoon Perle. Cheers.
fanniterrette 1 year ago
@fanniterrette You said 'right wing dinner party clowns' in reference to Perle, right? So, he's 'right-wing', right? Fuck it, it doesn't really matter. These are meanderings. My only point was that I disagree with Chomsky being associated with liberal ideologies while guys like Perle are associated with the right. In this particular discussion, I find it distracting, a source of atomization. I just assumed you were turning this into a liberal-conservative thing.
DemilichFan 1 year ago
@DemilichFan. Yes, Perle is as right-wing as they come, but saying that obvious fact was not the point of my comment. Do you want "right-wing" to be banned from the English language? A more interesting point, as you alluded to in your first comment, is that by today's standards, Nixon was a liberal president. One has to be careful about such words, for sure, since they can be twisted in different ways. However, my use of the word did no such thing. I called a dog a dog. Onward.
fanniterrette 1 year ago
@fanniterrette
Capitalism is not inherently violent... that is a total cliche. A socialist/communist country can and have been just as violent. I am a huge Chomsky fan too but government foreign policy and economic policy aren't tied together like that.
bobshenix 1 year ago
@fanniterrette
Its the warmongers and neo-cons like Perle that got us into Iraq... so your right about that LOOK IT UP PEOPLE PERLE IS A DEVIL HE LIED US INTO IRAQ!!!!
bobshenix 1 year ago
God, nothing infuriates me more than when people are mocked for having knowledge.
Perle is just Sarah Palin with a wrinkly face a smarter sounding accent. It's the same bullshit anti-intellectual crap.
TBlake34 2 years ago 6
You betcha! *winks*
phantomofmyopera 2 years ago
ignorance unintentially produces evil. Perle is an ignorant man and his policies produced evil. The american people by their ignorance followed the policies of men like Perle. Sadly, 20 years later after this debate, Iraq war occured in the same fashion as the previous wars. Sleepy americans keep on snoozing. I am hurt to see that Perle`s rubbish and sheer ignorance won the minds of americans. What have you been thinking. Watching baseball or the price is right?? Too sad.
ulyssenardin 2 years ago 4
I tend to follow the logic of Chomsky's points in most cases around the world. But, in Israel, the issue of water and security (related to the pre-1967 borders) is the unresovlable issue. Israel can point to history where Arabs have utilized the Golan Heights in ways to attack Israel from strategically higher locations. Also, the on-going beneath the surface anti-semitism in Europe and America gives Israel no assurance when such places give garauntees of security. And the water issue...
kristjanerik 2 years ago
what about the international consensus? :(
modestryan16 2 years ago
"Israel can point to history where Arabs have utilized the Golan Heights in ways to attack Israel" - Yes, in war time. If there can be peace, problem solved. Arabs can also point to a lot of location in Israel that were used by the Israeli military to attack Palestine, Lebanon, Egypt etc, yet it doesn't mean they have the right to annexate all these locations.
Dalambam 2 years ago
I agree there's some beneath the surface anti-semitism in Europe and America, against both the Arabs (A LOT) and the Jews (a little bit), but that's not very relevant.
.
Dalambam 2 years ago
As for the water issue, maybe, just maybe, Israel could, um, trade resources with it's neighbors, in the case peace is established, but that's just me, lol. Several Arab countries have terrible, really terrible, water issues, yet you and I understand that it doesn't give them the right to just go out and colonize some water-rich country.
Dalambam 2 years ago 2
Freidlon7 and diskidave1 beautifully sum up my thoughts
phornuphto 2 years ago
Perle demonstrates the anti-intellectualist streak of the neo-cons. He seems proud of the fact he can't come up with substantial answers to questions.
postrealitysyndrome 2 years ago 5
The audio is a mess on this video.
rooley 2 years ago
Yeah, it sounds psychadelic.
suckfist 2 years ago
I have never seen anyone get destroyed this badly.
Cosbibi 2 years ago 4
Chomsky's a force of nature here, and it's just possible that Perle was slack in his prep, figuring his debating opponent was just some wacky leftist.
terpis 2 years ago 31
Fix the audio.Or is it by choice?
karvahanuri 2 years ago
The nature of things makes me feel thhis is by choice or unathorized modification after the fact upload...in either case---a clear intention was made to disturb this particular point Chomsky is making regarding Israel!
cribster123 2 years ago 2
What a dick this Perle is. He be-littles Chomsky because he answers questions thoroughly. What the fuck??
alwayswilling1232000 3 years ago 5
Chomsky's long answers make little Perle's head hurt.
suckfist 2 years ago 5
Perle really sounded pathetic here when he resorted to ad hominem attacks on Chomsky in this segment.
Locrian08 3 years ago 8
agreed
lordennis01 3 years ago
As to Brucel1234's comments on how amazing American Freedom is, well that's questionable. Its is precisely the aggressive and self interested foreign policy that Chompsky outlines that propped up American culture and economy and maintained the US's position as a first world country and a super power. From this luxurious position, its much easier to have a free domestic environment because there is no rampant and violent struggle for power as is apparent in more impoverished countries.
diskidave1 3 years ago
Its totally symptomatic of Perle's defensive position that his argument turns ad hominem, he says that Chompsky "has an answer for everything", and reduces his own claim to a weird attempt at intellectual and political humility: "I don't know". He then makes alludes to the impracticality, or the futility of Chompsky's arguments by saying that he'll never convince American foreign policy makers. Pretty weak Perle.
diskidave1 3 years ago 4
At this stage Perle wishes he'd stayed home. This is slaughter but it proves one thing... that an opinion is not powerful because of it's logic but simply by who holds it - therefore Perle's opinion (as a central player in the administration) has been vastly more powerful than Chomsky's despite Chomsky's obvious superior logic.
Freidlon7 3 years ago 10
fix the fucking audio, jesus
Tlk2435asdko43 3 years ago 6
wow, Chomsky totally explained the entire problem in the middle east with Israel and Palestine here perfectly....
Why wont America listen?!
Lawlow1978 3 years ago 5
The America that watches "America's Most Wanted" won't; however America's readers have made his books bestsellers. His typically sells out the venues he speaks at and is booked years in advance. The corporate media gatekeepers that shut him out have obvious self interests, as do the major party politicians he critiques. "Manufaturing Consent" by Chomsky and Herman explains that with stunning clarity.
Gregorypeckory 3 years ago 2
i have to commend chomsky on his ability to have a civilized conversation with one of the biggest mass murderers in modern history. It really is amazing, compared to what happens in other countries, that he is able to openly criticize the government directly to one of the prime leaders in it. We should really revere that level of freedom that we enjoy in this country, despite the numerous problems.
brucel1234 3 years ago 2
how is richard pearle one of the biggest mass murderers in history?
lotzova 3 years ago
well, the man served as mr. ronald reagan's and mr. bush's assistant secretary of defense, if i am correct, and both of these administrations mass murdered people in latin america and the middle east, thus making richard perle directly responsible for the deaths of thousands of people, something that cannot be said of myself, yourself, and mr. chomsky.
brucel1234 3 years ago
so, while Ron Reagan was president, people were mass murdered in latin america and the middle east, therefore, the assistant to Ron Reagan's secretary of defense is a mass murderer? that's not a logical conclusion. it's possible that he wasn't involved in the planning.
lotzova 3 years ago
well, that is about a logical conclusion as i can come to at the moment. i can't imagine the assistant secretary of defense not having a primary role in planning military expenditures abroad. So, my question is, what would his role have been as the assistant secretary of defense if not what i have mentioned, sipping tea and watching war movies?
brucel1234 3 years ago
The "level" of freedom isn't there because the U.S. in benevolent, it's there because it cannot afford to shut out ALL (although it does shut out a lot of) criticism.
CallUmHowISeeUm 3 years ago
Hey Boval, any chance of cleaning up that audio (at least in Part 10)? Otherwise, great post of a good debate.
ncheran 3 years ago 2
kcufmalsi:unless you can argue with Noam himself, subsequently getting destroyed like the rest of them when facts were actually discussed as opposed to rhetorical statements, your rants are merely words with no weight. You would clearly benefit from a logic/critical thought class at your local college.
Jingoistic, rhetoric filled, gripped with fear, isolationist, dismiss facts, etc...
This sort of behavior causes the things that you seem to fear, possibly creating your current philosophies.
socokid 3 years ago 2
I almost get the impression that Richard Perle had never heard of Noam Chomsky before this debate. If he doesn't have any answers, he should get the fuck off the stage.
tangldmojo 3 years ago 8
At best I skim your comments because they're pretty much the same - long dissertations of ideology and hero worship, insults to my intelligence and challenges I defend my positions to your satisfaction --
kcufmalsi 3 years ago
i have read your remarks about socialism, communism and anarchism, and man, u know shit about all of those ISMs, and it's funny how u talk like u know a thing or two about it, lol.
go read a book and stop making a fool of yourself
misguidance10 3 years ago
You're a Juntos Podemos Mas member? Do you wear your pathetic 'Che the murderer' T-shirt to the meetings? You and Gnome are nothing but filth. Drop dead!
kcufmalsi 3 years ago
as if that were possible. The goal isn't to debate anything since your beliefs consume your brain like burning tar. It's your way to make me waste valuable time typing just to tell me I'm wrong. I couldn't care less about defending my beliefs, especially to nihilistic ideologues. And if there's anything more I hate than ideologues, it's sociopaths. Combine the two and all I see is red, also the color of Gnome's ideology.
kcufmalsi 3 years ago
It seems like the Neville Chamberlain School Of Diplomacy is alive and well in the UK.
kcufmalsi 3 years ago
What I hate most about Gnome is not that he's a variant of a communist. To call yourself a communist when not even communists want to be communists anymore is just odd. It's that he's a sociopath willing to lead children and dangerous cretins down roads of negativity and destruction for an ideology that's proven over and over again to fail on genocidal scales.
kcufmalsi 3 years ago
Chomsky says and I quote "If you want to know what I have in mind it's simple: independence". Find me one quote where he says that he's a communist. He never denied the holocaust he is just aware of that Israel have killed far more Palestinians than the other way around. Unlike you he is not blindly patriotic and critisises his own people when he thinks they are in the wrong.
jbat100 3 years ago
I clearly stated your heroes ideology. You're nothing but a shill and an apologist. I hope you get paid for your ridiculous Gnome cheerleading~~> (WORKERS OF THE WORLD, UNITE)
kcufmalsi 3 years ago
Looks like you just ran out of arguments. Like Perle.
jbat100 3 years ago
For the last time - anarchy is a sad, unfunny joke. It's the most delusional fringe of socialism and an unfortunate lyric from Johnny Rotten, who specifically used the term to mean chaos and only chose it because it rhymed with "anti-Christ". Historically anarchists were kept at arms' length by socialists and utilized as idiot goon squads, as Hitler used the street thugs known as the Brown Shirts, whom he had killed in the "Night Of The Long Knives".
kcufmalsi 3 years ago
He does it by knowingly telling half truths and total lies, by denying slaughters committed in the name of the ideology he pushes, and by ramming self-hating dogma down the throats of young minds to create instability for its own sake.
kcufmalsi 3 years ago
Gnome calls himself an anarcho-syndicalist but it's a fancy label he uses to deflect from his real ideology of stalinism, which he claims not to be, yet he enthusiastically approves and promotes its history, practitioners and ideology.
kcufmalsi 3 years ago
If Stalin has an ideology it would be something like: "Everyone should be russia's slave, kill everyone who disagrees in work camps". I don't like communism but Stalin wasn't a communist he was a brutal dictator and a nutcase. If you see any resemblance between that and chomsky's views you really need help.
jbat100 3 years ago
I bet all of you neo-commies are wearing your Che Guevara t-shirts.
kcufmalsi 3 years ago
But reading your profile i don't think there is any point in having any discussion.
jbat100 3 years ago
I'm sure Gnome pissed his pants in joy when the Twin Towers fell. Gnome doesn't present the other side of history as points of information or inducements for debate - it's a PR campaign for an agenda that's built on lies. Anarcho-syndicalism my ass. He's also a Jewish supporter of Holocaust Revisionism, of all things.
kcufmalsi 3 years ago
He rightly condemned the 9/11 atrocities and also rightly condemn conspiracy theorists who try to argue that there is a direct involvement of the US government in their organisation. He also notes that tragic though they were, they are insignificant compared to the consequences of US foreign policy. He has nothing to gain from the points of view he defends, everything to lose in fact. But at least he does his best to promote peace, justice and prosperity for ALL.
jbat100 3 years ago
Noam Chomsky.... The communist prick outlived his pseudo utopia: The USSR.
kcufmalsi 3 years ago
He never said the USSR was his "pseudo utopia". He hates their model just as much as capitalism. He criticises US policy because it subordinates third world countries to allow their natural and human resources to be exploited by US businesses and stops them from independently and DEMOCRATICALLY developing their own model. He never said communism or the USSR was good.
jbat100 3 years ago
this went from being a debate to being a Chomsky lecture
billycarr 3 years ago
yes ... I get the same impression, should give Richard the chance to Hang himself a bit more.
TodMcInerney 3 years ago 3
is ay good for that - Perle is more of a propagandist lacking facts and scolarship - Perle is not a scholar but rather a political animal whose recent illegal and coorrupt dealings forced him to resign from his defense job - check it out at wikipedia
BillVancouver111 3 years ago 3
Is that to suggest that Bush's policies are legal, and that is why he is still in office!!
Corruption and imperialistic ambitions flow through those peoples' veins.
8Marx8 3 years ago
Plenty of people are suffering just so we can keep the notion of a 'Jewish state' alive.
If it wasn't plain racist to begin with, its served only to create misery for all parties.
Palestinian refugees who have had that status for 60 years, and who live a couple of miles outside Israel won't be allowed to return because, being Muslim, they'll threaten the future of this 'Jewish state'.
This could be a bible story, its so preposterous.
johnnycon 3 years ago
Almost sounds like Perle is surrendering in the beginning of this clip. ^^
YuriKenobi 3 years ago 7
sound is all messed up for me.
fathead8489 3 years ago 6
he is a genius...
kbutd4ever 4 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Noam Chomsky is a Propagandist. He has the right to be one. He has three very prominent supporters:
1. Hugo Chavez. (would-be dictator)
2. Fidel Castro. (Communist dictator)
3. Osama Bin Laden. (Al-Qaeda fanatic)
Yesterday's failures: Trotskyites.
Today's new-and-improved failures: Chomskyites!
tharnax 4 years ago
4. CIA Middle Eastern experts/operatives that testified/gave evidence/professional opinion to the 911 commission.
Yes, he is a liberal dove but his supporters come from both wings. You could've also put Mahmoud Ahmadinejad as a prominent supporter. Maybe even Ron Paul - they definitely have the same US foreign policy ethos.
jjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjo 3 years ago
anyone who has a point of view that little bitch "tharnax", "carmexworks" and"SHADOWCOMPANY" disagrees with is a fascist.
but not reagan, who can choose which govts to topple.
his whole life is a pornographic joke.
4ourthofjuly 4 years ago
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Deluded One.
I gave you a few days to come up with a better argument against America, you failed again.
If you keep reading Chomsky, that painful feeling of losing arguments with democratic capitalists actually gets worse! Smarten Up!
tharnax 4 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Noam Chomsky is a Propagandist. He has the right to be one. He has three very prominent supporters:
1. Hugo Chavez. (would-be dictator)
2. Fidel Castro. (Communist dictator)
3. Osama Bin Laden. (Al-Qaeda fanatic)
Yesterday's failures: Trotskyites.
Today's new-and-improved failures: Chomskyites!
tharnax 4 years ago
Cuba was an evil tentacle of the kremlin that wants to destroy the USA, then right after the berlin wall fell it was a contagine that had to be contained. This justified the longest ever embargo starving a country. Nobody skipped a beat believing telling the new story in the media. You'd struggle that obedience in NAZI germany
kmarkymark 4 years ago
"Our race is the Master Race. We are divine gods on this planet. We are as different from the inferior races as they are from insects. In fact, compared to our race, other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best. Other races are considered as human excrement. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our earthly kingdom will be ruled by our leader with a rod of iron. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as our slaves."
-- Menachem Begin - Israeli Prime Minister 1977-1983
heraclytus 4 years ago
you know,I heard that on discovery channell not too long ago,,,well said
setanta333 3 years ago
Please give the best regards to Bill O'Reilly, Rush Limbaugh, and Michael Savage. Stay with them, they will not lead you astray.
suvorov4 4 years ago
Please provide evidence that Bin Laden "supports" Chomsky, along with further clarification as to what you mean by support.
tofumar 3 years ago
The right wing fears Noam Chomsky. He is undebateable; a living encyclopedia. They cannot deal with him. From Willian F. Buckley, the godfather of the "New Right", to this Richard Perle, Chomsky has rationally and systematically destroyed any semblence of argument for which they contend. Through historical documentation and recall he makes their neo-liberal agenda transparent and undeniable. You have to love when Perle was officially defeated saying, "he has an answer for everything".
nesspt247 4 years ago 7
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I used to be really disturbed by the far Left, they were always so strident, and so wrong. I thought that they might actually gain some real political power in the US. Then I realized with comfort and satisfaction that these Marxist lefties are almost never elected to any office in government. That's why the moderate left distances themselves from this nonsense; they want to be taken seriously and thereby elected to office.
tharnax 4 years ago
I used to be disturbed by the "right" in america, they were so dogmatic and cruel.
Then I realized that they were really nothing more than sloganeers and cheerleaders: basically george w bush back at yale.
unfortunately, their pied piper is capital, and capital is more powerful than the golden rule.
4ourthofjuly 4 years ago
Chomsky can't be beaten. As for "development models." How about this one, fuck off. You, the World Bank, IMF, etc, have no right to step in and create conditions that benefit the wealthy corporations of the west at the expense of the indigenous population. That was the point about the "snow peas" example. I can see why Perle didn't get it.
Canadamark78 4 years ago 4
That 'useless professor' has a habit of making 'government officials and politicians and advisors' look utterly inept by exposing their lies and misdirection.
Psycarne 4 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
haha, "good economic development model is a topic of an academic seminar", yah Chomsky, just admit you have no idea. Further, a good economic development model is the proper subject for government officials and politicians and advisors (etc.) to discuss, not useless professors.
romodel 4 years ago
lol. I would dare to take a class in Harvard under him, he would kill you with the pen, and you would get an F-
kubikmaster 4 years ago
Nice one. That's a really well thought out response. A useless professor from MIT who's authored more that 70 books, thousands of articles, revolutionized an entire field of academic study, has been recognized as the most important living academic in the entire world (according to a British publication) and is the most referenced living intellectual in the last 30 years. There is barely a government official alive who would themselves claim to be on the same mental sphere as Chomsky.
scottreynolds74 4 years ago 3
The jewish international bankers acknowledge that they, unfortunately, had to sacrifice some of their own people in their financial support of Hitler "but look at what we have acheived"
Today Israel sacrifices their citizens by continual harrassment of the Palestinians
knowing full well that they will retaliate.
fruglescot 4 years ago
Perle is just a wimp compared to Chomsky.
vicnameless 4 years ago
KentAllard - The ironic thing is that Perle was trying to take a jab at Chomsky, when in fact his wry statement was the absolute truth. Chomsky's brain must weigh a tonne.
Davey1977 4 years ago
Perle failed miserably in this debate.
Andoseroby 4 years ago 7
LOL out of his league is mr pearl... its painful to listen..
RichieW 4 years ago 4
You all hear the garble at 3:45? Wierd.
GuamIsGood 4 years ago
bovall - can you fix the audio? It IS garbled from 3:45 on.
bcolton73 4 years ago
Well, Perle's right about something. He doesn't have the answer. For anything.
LaoTsu82 4 years ago
"I don't have an answer, and I think I probably differ from Professor Chomsky who has an answer for absolutely everything. And will tell it to you at great length" -- arsehole
KentAllard 5 years ago
haha indeed. he may as well just thrown up his hands in defeat and left the building. Chomsky crushes the opposition yet again. fabulous!
lightningpaw2 4 years ago 2
Always great to see a politician sink to name calling, then you know he's got no arguments.
coeuz 5 years ago 4
has perle ever held an elected office in his life? he's a policy man
KentAllard 5 years ago