Very interesting ideas. But how can we define being "awake"? Who decides who is awake and who is not? "Waking up" seems to be a continual process of realizations, a journey for knowledge and truth. Some people may be at the very beginning of their journey, and may not be able to see the world as you or I do - yet. What is a good starting point? There has to be a good way to start these types of conversations, to ease people into certain ideas.
hey mate. i recon being consious is in our genetics as living creatures, that kids wouldn't go unconsious if they didn't encounter the brain bashers, and probably most people would wake up if they have the experiences that show the truth of their situation.
BUT wild animals were domesticated over generations. Maybe changes have happened to people too.
I like the sound of the opposite idea best though... that it wasn't possible, genetically, for them to knock all of us unconsious...
I come across those people who don't want to see the others perspective and I can sometimes atribute it to social trauma. I'd question what brings you back to those people, are they old friends? highlight why you connected with them in the first place and in time you'll come to understandings Together more easily. the mind can't be forced or it just fragments the ability to connect different ways of thinking.
and all the synthetic matierals that affect our genes, some people get storong sensitivities/allergies to these things, and might be considered genetic problems, are actually pretty smart genes if you ask me.. some are emotionally more sensitive, social interation cause countless chemical reactions in the whole body, food, no doubt you would feel emotionally not wanting to be around those ways of living as you know it pollutes you right?
ehh, I'd have to say there are maybe genes that affect "how" a person wakes up, like more dependant on types of social interations(cultural ways of nature vs nurture, nurture will always work over "social disfuntion" caused by repressive culture). I think civilization has preyed upon those people and I think as we develope a more inclusive culture, they will help us in ways We Can't Even See right now as people who concider our selves "woken up" around such a material/consumer culture
In my opinion, everyone has the potential to awaken. I believe we are currently experiencing a mass awakening. When I am in a discussion with someone who isn't receptive to these ideas, I remind myself that Mother Culture has had 10,000 years to lull them to sleep. Some people are just heavier sleepers than others. I think of it as a Bell Curve. (cont.)
We are the early risers, and right now we make up a minority percentage of the whole. As we continue these discussions, our numbers can only increase. I know that this seems like an excruciatingly slow process, but in the lifetime of the Earth this will be the blink of an eye. I agree with bbbleaver that focusing on those around us that are still asleep distracts us from our goal. Live your life as an example. Talk to those who will listen. You are an early riser, go out and enjoy the sunrise!
for myself (until 10 yr ago) i was not aware that it was our collective cultural memes (explanations of how things came to be "this way") that allows 17% of the populace to live in a way that does not benefit the other 83%... and then i began researching history, anthropology, archeology, etc that brought an awareness of the patterns of domination to be carried out... then i read ishmael and it solidified the whole picture... "waking up" is a euphemism (continued)
used by most to indicate people who are "asleep" to what is "actually" happening... though it's more or less used as a judgment against others (a form of blame) that the sleep walkers are the enemy carrying out the plans of ruthless men in power so they (the sleepers) can go on sleeping ... dreaming that "everything is ok". but who amoung us can say, "i did not want to wake up from this nightmare?" and in doing so sought knowledge to support what we now see? if i say everything OK (continued)
and others say it's not ok who's right? if i am happy or at least content what's wrong with that? and if others are unhappy with me then they are wasting their time... why don't we live our dream and in doing so others will dream with us? anyway. i see it as a matter of awareness, looking at the obvious - if we continue talking about "others" and not focusing on what we'd like to get from this life and how to manifest it we'll never accomplish much?
Waking up is more related to a persons psyche then to genetics. The longer you lived with a worldview that is submissive and makes you believe in government the less likely you can let go. In psychology there is something called betrayal blindness, if you're betrayed / abused but a person (or institution) you depend upon your own psyche will filter out contradictory information that would lead to the conclusion that the person/institution you depend upon is deceptive. Check : bit . ly / cBGfax
the risk of admitting that the system is harmful is so great that it threatens the survival of the ego, so the person would 'die' if he or she realized that the system isn't the pajama party it advertises itself to be
i've often felt that it's a decision that was made early on, to play the game in order to survive...the strong reactions that come with this conversation really show how connected it is to (perceived) survival
I think that everyone had the potential to become aware before societal conditioning was heaped upon them in excess... people beyond a certain age or people who are conditioned to a certain degree may not be capable of waking up. I think genetics could make people less prone to wake up, but nothing could predispose people at birth from being unable to wake up.
It's a matter of psychology, and perhaps different layers, different problem, complexes etc... have to be dissolved, healed, and targeted before you can approach them on whatever level you're looking to. If someone thinks fundamentally people are bad and prone to war, a historical/anthropological account isn't necessarily going to convince them if its a crucial thing they're holding onto for the balance of their psyche.
@themajikat In the "Illuminatus!" trilogy they talk about the people, genetically, who are open to new things, and those that are closed. The mutation that made the former started all this trouble.
The problem here is the assumption, in a way, that we're people. Same problem of Freud et. al. The depths of our psyches is so much deeper than me normally think. I'll quote R.D.Laing's "Politics of Experience":
@themajikat Given the conditions of contemporary civilization, how can one claim that the "normal" man is sane? "The condition of alienation, of being asleep, of being unconscious, of being out of one's mind, is the condition of the normal man. Society highly values its normal man. It educates children to lose themselves and to become absurd, and thus to be normal. Normal men have killed perhaps 100,000,000 of their fellow men in the last fifty years...
@themajikat We are not able even to think adequately about the behaviour at the annihilating edge. But what we think is less than what we know; what we know is less than what we love; what we love is so much less than what there is. And to that precise extent we are so much less than what we are..."
Of course I noticed that too. You're not alone... many people are awakening now! :)
thomasnordwest 1 year ago
Very interesting ideas. But how can we define being "awake"? Who decides who is awake and who is not? "Waking up" seems to be a continual process of realizations, a journey for knowledge and truth. Some people may be at the very beginning of their journey, and may not be able to see the world as you or I do - yet. What is a good starting point? There has to be a good way to start these types of conversations, to ease people into certain ideas.
xs0heavenly 1 year ago
hey mate. i recon being consious is in our genetics as living creatures, that kids wouldn't go unconsious if they didn't encounter the brain bashers, and probably most people would wake up if they have the experiences that show the truth of their situation.
BUT wild animals were domesticated over generations. Maybe changes have happened to people too.
I like the sound of the opposite idea best though... that it wasn't possible, genetically, for them to knock all of us unconsious...
planktonicorganism 2 years ago
what causes an awakening is a mystery
how it is defined is also a mystery
perhaps folks who think they are awake aren't
it does seem to me that reaching people is not about reasoning and logic--it's about the heart
which is why ishmael reaches people, because it is a parable (alchemical)
some folks are very deeply wounded, very closed down, with lots of protective walls
it seems some are genetically incapable of waking up, but i'll hold that that is just how it seems, not how it is
pennilesscripple 2 years ago
I come across those people who don't want to see the others perspective and I can sometimes atribute it to social trauma. I'd question what brings you back to those people, are they old friends? highlight why you connected with them in the first place and in time you'll come to understandings Together more easily. the mind can't be forced or it just fragments the ability to connect different ways of thinking.
Beardedyoungman 2 years ago
and all the synthetic matierals that affect our genes, some people get storong sensitivities/allergies to these things, and might be considered genetic problems, are actually pretty smart genes if you ask me.. some are emotionally more sensitive, social interation cause countless chemical reactions in the whole body, food, no doubt you would feel emotionally not wanting to be around those ways of living as you know it pollutes you right?
Beardedyoungman 2 years ago
ehh, I'd have to say there are maybe genes that affect "how" a person wakes up, like more dependant on types of social interations(cultural ways of nature vs nurture, nurture will always work over "social disfuntion" caused by repressive culture). I think civilization has preyed upon those people and I think as we develope a more inclusive culture, they will help us in ways We Can't Even See right now as people who concider our selves "woken up" around such a material/consumer culture
Beardedyoungman 2 years ago
It is an interesting thought, It is possible that some people are just not able to wake up, like rolling your tongue, it's a genetic thing.
Although something that I did hear about is that some scientists believe that genes can be reprogrammed.
TUSENMAUG 2 years ago
In my opinion, everyone has the potential to awaken. I believe we are currently experiencing a mass awakening. When I am in a discussion with someone who isn't receptive to these ideas, I remind myself that Mother Culture has had 10,000 years to lull them to sleep. Some people are just heavier sleepers than others. I think of it as a Bell Curve. (cont.)
Stevo2284 2 years ago
We are the early risers, and right now we make up a minority percentage of the whole. As we continue these discussions, our numbers can only increase. I know that this seems like an excruciatingly slow process, but in the lifetime of the Earth this will be the blink of an eye. I agree with bbbleaver that focusing on those around us that are still asleep distracts us from our goal. Live your life as an example. Talk to those who will listen. You are an early riser, go out and enjoy the sunrise!
Stevo2284 2 years ago
Comment removed
Stevo2284 2 years ago
for myself (until 10 yr ago) i was not aware that it was our collective cultural memes (explanations of how things came to be "this way") that allows 17% of the populace to live in a way that does not benefit the other 83%... and then i began researching history, anthropology, archeology, etc that brought an awareness of the patterns of domination to be carried out... then i read ishmael and it solidified the whole picture... "waking up" is a euphemism (continued)
bbbleaver 2 years ago
used by most to indicate people who are "asleep" to what is "actually" happening... though it's more or less used as a judgment against others (a form of blame) that the sleep walkers are the enemy carrying out the plans of ruthless men in power so they (the sleepers) can go on sleeping ... dreaming that "everything is ok". but who amoung us can say, "i did not want to wake up from this nightmare?" and in doing so sought knowledge to support what we now see? if i say everything OK (continued)
bbbleaver 2 years ago
and others say it's not ok who's right? if i am happy or at least content what's wrong with that? and if others are unhappy with me then they are wasting their time... why don't we live our dream and in doing so others will dream with us? anyway. i see it as a matter of awareness, looking at the obvious - if we continue talking about "others" and not focusing on what we'd like to get from this life and how to manifest it we'll never accomplish much?
bbbleaver 2 years ago
Waking up is more related to a persons psyche then to genetics. The longer you lived with a worldview that is submissive and makes you believe in government the less likely you can let go. In psychology there is something called betrayal blindness, if you're betrayed / abused but a person (or institution) you depend upon your own psyche will filter out contradictory information that would lead to the conclusion that the person/institution you depend upon is deceptive. Check : bit . ly / cBGfax
Insightcollector 2 years ago
thanks for that insight, collector
it explains the phenomenon well
the risk of admitting that the system is harmful is so great that it threatens the survival of the ego, so the person would 'die' if he or she realized that the system isn't the pajama party it advertises itself to be
i've often felt that it's a decision that was made early on, to play the game in order to survive...the strong reactions that come with this conversation really show how connected it is to (perceived) survival
pennilesscripple 2 years ago
Would you kill the tiger that is attacking you?
Would you kill the driving force destroying the planet that you happen to inhabit?
Even from a selfish persons view these points are valid.
Seedr0 2 years ago
lots of people don't see the connection
zzz33333 2 years ago
I think that everyone had the potential to become aware before societal conditioning was heaped upon them in excess... people beyond a certain age or people who are conditioned to a certain degree may not be capable of waking up. I think genetics could make people less prone to wake up, but nothing could predispose people at birth from being unable to wake up.
techjunkie92 2 years ago
It's a matter of psychology, and perhaps different layers, different problem, complexes etc... have to be dissolved, healed, and targeted before you can approach them on whatever level you're looking to. If someone thinks fundamentally people are bad and prone to war, a historical/anthropological account isn't necessarily going to convince them if its a crucial thing they're holding onto for the balance of their psyche.
themajikat 2 years ago
@themajikat In the "Illuminatus!" trilogy they talk about the people, genetically, who are open to new things, and those that are closed. The mutation that made the former started all this trouble.
The problem here is the assumption, in a way, that we're people. Same problem of Freud et. al. The depths of our psyches is so much deeper than me normally think. I'll quote R.D.Laing's "Politics of Experience":
themajikat 2 years ago
@themajikat Given the conditions of contemporary civilization, how can one claim that the "normal" man is sane? "The condition of alienation, of being asleep, of being unconscious, of being out of one's mind, is the condition of the normal man. Society highly values its normal man. It educates children to lose themselves and to become absurd, and thus to be normal. Normal men have killed perhaps 100,000,000 of their fellow men in the last fifty years...
themajikat 2 years ago
@themajikat We are not able even to think adequately about the behaviour at the annihilating edge. But what we think is less than what we know; what we know is less than what we love; what we love is so much less than what there is. And to that precise extent we are so much less than what we are..."
themajikat 2 years ago