Demos, ThumFest™ 2005, www.thummer.com

[ttracemusic]

Looks very cool!!!

[phillwilson]

have you thought about tapping into the midi DEV scene? firms such as mutable instruments have made a cottage industry out of selling the raw parts plus instructions to eager hackers.

I would love yo own one of these to go with my host of other experimental controllers. if you would fancy selling me a proto i would be interested.

also if you ever make a kit or production version please feel free ot add me to a waiting list.

thanks...and keep innovating

Phill

[leandrusi]

well cheer up man, I believe your invention is very supperior to the ones actually being in the market today!!

[vynl]

This would be a cool way to get a wider range out of a single handspan so I could keep my other hand on a set of synthesizer knobs.

[paulj0557]

Watch ' Walter Wanderley Call Me ' and see why an organ keyboard is not only good enough, but it's also the greatest sounding instrument of all time that can be bought on any Craigslist , in the U.S. anyway, for $100 and...don't get me started (lol).

[singlishpunk]

this is a great innovation, dun give up! : )

[jmwintenn]

that is pretty awesome

[noisebender]

In the Light by Led Zepplin!

[Buju561]

so how do I go about buying this?

[JLMoriart]

@Buju561 Unfortunately the company that planned to market the Thummer has gone bankrupt due to the financial crisis of '08, but some dedicated enthusiasts have undertaken a DIY project to make generic Thummers called jammers. Hate to sound like I'm advertising, but check out my channel for more info, I already play one.

[Austimatic]

Jim I can see the Japanese market eating this up. You should try to get some freebie work from a product designer to help give it a more polished looking package. Maybe some type of lighting would help?

[asdfxcxv]

fix the economy and sell this

[superpu2]

Got a name on the first song :P or is it your own ?

[JimPlamondon]

Unfortunately, the Thummer is a casualty of the current financial crisis. Thumtronics, the company that I formed to design and market it, has gone bankrupt. My fault, for poorly managing its development and introduction. Sorry about that.

I expect to place the design documents in the public domain, so that -- once the economy recovers -- some maker of electronic musical instruments (probably Chinese) can start making them.

[geoffreyefloyd]

I'm so sorry to hear that....I had high hopes for the thummer, espcially with the dynamic tonality software. I've messed around with that a bunch on max/msp with that wickysynth file online. I honestly think some of these instruments with isomorphic layouts will do well eventually. It's hard to make a choice between wicki hayden, and the harmonic table (axis 64, opal midi) for me however =) Although peter davies in an email xchange with said they can do a wicki (90 degree turn on the keybaord)

[geoffreyefloyd]

anyway, i had been tracking the progress of this for a while so sad to see it go! Don't give up on making keyboards though, you know way too much (especially with the help of microtonal gurus like Bill Sethares) to not be in that business.

[geoffreyefloyd]

Any idea when you will be ready to place the design documents in the public domain? I would actually like to see those, as I'm trying a diy project.

[diddymuck]

@JimPlamondon don't give up!  this seems like a terrif christmas item.

[electromusikman]

Where can I buy this amazing instrument ??JimPlamondon

[elefanten4]

Thats a lame instument

[JimPlamondon]

Could you be more specific? If there are specific features or qualities that you're looking for, I'd like to hear them.

[AsianCaptainObvious]

Although elefanten probably didn't think it through when he commented on this video , I'll say that there is one major shortcoming to this instrument, namely, that amplitude can't be adjusted per key (like a piano or a violin; to play a note louder, you press or bow harder). Just as an electric piano is useless if it isn't pressure sensitive this instrument won't be able to go mainstream (most likely) if it doesn't have this ability.

[TaterGumfries]

@JimPlamondon elefanten don't have any idea what he means.

[GHOSTVAL]

Why do you think it's lame? Do you know its features?

[JimPlamondon]

Pressure-sensitive buttons are possible (google "The AXiS-49 Revealed", for example). However, this provides only ONE degree of freedom (continuous variable); the Thummer's thumStiks and internal motion sensors provide TEN more. It is reasonable to value pressure sensitivity highly, because musicians already understand how to use it. But to discount the Thummer's TEN additional degrees of freedom seems...odd.

[diddymuck]

@elefanten4 no its not...its portable, innovative, variable, looks easy to learn, has a broad set of uses and is (hopefully) affordable.

[frenzitti]

Thanks for the quick reply. I just don't see it on stage at all. Maybe it could be used for composing? Every other instrument out there is much like a piece of art. Guitars=beautiful,Pianos=beaut­iful, Saxophone=beautiful.

The only thing I can see anyone using this is for composition, and that is only feasible if it is a country mile easier to express your musical ideas.

[JimPlamondon]

Have you seen video lWK1d9fzlVQ? Most musicians tell me that its motion sensing would be great for live performance. Do you disagree?

[JimPlamondon]

As to the Thummer's lack of beauty -- that's a matter of taste. The Thummer was designed to minimize weight and bulk, thereby maximizing the utility of its internal motion sensors -- i.e., making it more musically expressive. The function of a digital controller is different from that of an acoustic instrument, and form should follow function. In my opinion, adding ornamentation to the Thummer just to make it prettier would be criminal -- but there's room for disagreement. :-)

[GHOSTVAL]

You can make guitar shaped thummer if it is the only problem. :) And I'm sure not all "common" instruments would be beautiful even for you. e.g. do you think Keytar is beautiful instrument? or do you like all electric guitars ever produced?

[frenzitti]

Your idea is kind of fun but who will use it? Certainly not a musician. On stage with a thummer? Yeah thats likely. The instrument is ugly. The only way this will ever make it is if it were easier to learn. Piano in my opinion is already perfectly logical. What makes yours more logical. This is the beta of musical instruments.

[JimPlamondon]

Yesterday I got an email from a musician finishing a European tour, saying "Just writing to ask: when may I buy a Thummer? How much wqould it cost us to buy a prototype? Thanks, steady on, and best of luck! Can't wait to see it in stores and schools!"

Of the hundreds of people who've signed up to be notified when the Thummer ships, 75% rated its looks as "cool."

So there are many people for whom the Thummer's raw expressive power, Dynamic Tonality, and keyboard logic are very attractive.

[xylenz]

You can tell that Jim is ex-Microsoft by the way he measures value by counting features. In music TONE is King not DoF.

[JimPlamondon]

This would be a valid criticism if the Thummer emitted any tones at all, but it does not. It is a MIDI controller, enabling the control of any MIDI-compatible tone generator, ow which there are squillions. The most expressive of these are the "waveguide" synths, such as the Yamaha VL70m, which produce amazingly realistic sounds -- if driven by a sufficiently-expressive controller. The Thummer can control such realistic sounds more expressively (and polyphonically) than any other MIDI controller.

[jacydawn82]

This device promotes musical idiocy. My main problem is the inventor is somehow trying to "improve" upon over 400 years of SUCCESSFUL musical tradition by replacing it with this useless toy.

[JimPlamondon]

I am guilty as charged... just as Henry Ford was guilty of trying to "improve" upon centuries of SUCCESSFUL transportation tradition and Vint Cerf was guilty of trying to "improve" upon centuries of SUCCESSFUL communications tradition. Their useless toys have helped millions.

"Promoting musical idiocy"? How so? With the Thummer, a higher percentage of people can successfully gain the knowledge and skills necessary to read, perform, and compose music. Is this not a good thing?

[JimPlamondon]

If jacydawn82 is the country singer Jacy Dawn, then her comments above are quite ironic. Is she not aware that in the early years of country music, most of its performers could not read traditional notation (Peterson, "Creating Country Music," p. 13), which was used as an excuse to keep them out of the musician's union, thereby marginalizing country music for decades? By exposing the simple structure of music, I am removing the very obstacles that her country music forebears struggled to cross.

[JimPlamondon]

Then, of course, there's the "Nashville Numbering System," invented by a Hee-Haw musician in 1957 to make transposing chords easier -- thereby presumably challenging musical tradition.

[jacydawn82]

1) I'm not the country singer Jacy Dawn.

2) Are you seriously comparing yourself to Henry Ford and Vint Cerf? Give me a break!

3) You don't fool me...your BS about wanting to spread the joy of music with your trinket is completely lost and fake to me between interjections of how much you want to make money. The developers of the Theramin or MOOG sought to further music as an art form, something you obviously don't intend to do as a musically challenged (however brilliant) businessman.

[JimPlamondon]

Your claims are erroneous.

Leon Teremin patented the Teremin all over the world; hardly a sign of unbridled altruism.

Robert Moog made theremins for a living, both before and after developing the synthesizer, and always worked (albeit with mixed success) to commercialize his innovations profitably.

By offering a simpler, cheaper, and more expessive instrument, I can make the world a better place and a fortune, too. That's the American Dream; as an American, that's good enough for me.

[jacydawn82]

How is it that this device is going to make the world a better place? Be very specific, please. How are you contributing to the world as a businessman (because, sir, you are NOT an artist) with your musical innovation?

Cut the nonsense; you are very much more interested in tapping into a "$30 billion a year industry."

If you would only change your view that the problems of the less musically-inclined is the fault of the music. That just completely boggles my mind.

[jacydawn82]

Face it: what you are indeed promoting is not innovation, but idiocy. You're not talking about cars versus horse and carriage.

Music is an art (to some, art in its highest form) and should be experienced by everyone. That much I agree. But to suggest that your way is better and that your device is superior in some way is completely ludicrous. There are countless interested individuals who have toiled for many years learning their instrument -

[jacydawn82]

whether piano, violin, guitar, cello, clarinet - both amateur, professional, or somewhere in between who would be more than happy to try or even learn your device (myself included would be interested in at least trying it out). But I cannot let go of your ridiculous claims about how the thummer is a "solution" to the problems presented by learning the above instruments, all veiled under the guise of making the world a better place.

[jacydawn82]

"By offering a simpler, cheaper, and more expessive instrument, I can make the world a better place and a fortune, too."

[jacydawn82]

"By offering a simpler, cheaper, and more expessive instrument, I can make the world a better place and a fortune, too."

Simpler? Maybe a little (although it doesn't take too long to learn chords on a guitar or basic progressions on a piano).

Cheaper? At $450 US, that's not exactly cheaper than a beginner's guitar, and that's just for the thummer alone, correct?

[jacydawn82]

More Expressive? The only claim that is just outright wrong. People: compare the thummer examples here to a fine performance of a Chopin etude or Beethoven sonata on the piano, an Albeniz Tango on the guitar, a Bach partita on the violin, or a simple lullaby sung by a parent to their child.

[JimPlamondon]

JacyDawn82, I appreciate your taking the time to post such obviously strongly-felt thoughts regarding the Thummer here. But perhaps my blog would be a better place to continue this discussion? See ThumMusings, at thummer com / blog.

I am particularly interest in understaind exactly what you believe musical idiocy to be, and what aspects of the Thummer and ThumMusic System you believe promote musical idiocy.

Thanks! :-)

[jacydawn82]

Sounds great!

[harmono]

I'm 43 years old. I'm interested in learning to improvise. I don't have the etime to learn to play a standard 88 key piano, so this could really help me.

[TunedInAndOut]

The Thummer looks very interesting! If it brings even one more person to music, it will be of great value.

I wish you good luck!

[filthguy]

I've abandoned the regular piano keyboard now. Right now I'm in the state of choosing between this keyboard layout and the Janko keyboard. They're both isomorphic. The Janko keyboard though always has lower notes at the left and higher at the right and is thus more similar to the regular piano keyboard in that way.

If you know any existing irc chat channel discussing these things please let me know.

[JimPlamondon]

Thummer's advantages over the Janko:

1) Can play P4's and P5's with one fingertip, so the thumb isn't needed for chord-playing.

2) So small that only fingers move, so thumbs stay put.

3) Stationary thumbs control expressive joysticks.

4) Can be waved around: motion sensors.

5) Layout fits on a QWERTY keyboard.

6) Supports Dynamic Tonality.

Janko's advantage: it's compatible with a piano's keyboard mechanism; each piano key has three hex buttons on it.

[Dracopol]

And what about very punishing classical pieces like Flight of the Bumblebee or "The Birds" from Carnival of the Animals with the semi-tone arpeggios for an octave or more? That's biased in favour of conventional keyboards. A Thummer demo of that, from a good enough musician, would be most convincing. But the no-thought key transposition I like a lot, now that I charted it out on some hexagon paper.

[JimPlamondon]

True enough! We need more prototypes to loan out to more musicians. I just send my only prototypes out to folks who could use them in new and interesting ways. We'll see what they come up with.

[Dracopol]

The Thummer is not very convincing at this point, at least as far as videos stored on YouTube are concerned, because it's mostly long footages by marketing guys jawing about it, and SHORT performances strung together. No major complete songs by ordinary musicians, no appearances in band except for that one song played over and over.

[Kortail]

I'll say one thing : Acoustic piano.

[Kortail]

"Thummer offers up to 13 DoF. The piano offers four (key velocity and three pedals). Thummer wins. What's your metric? "

Math doesn't explain anything. Do you really believe in your instrument, or is it a way to make money ? Well by the way you make it look, marketing is about 90% of the thing, while music is 10%.

We'll see in 10 years if your toy is still here.

[JimPlamondon]

Math explains harmony very well. The mathematical relationship between notes on the Thummer's keyboard enables new effects such as tuning bends, temperament modulations, and new chord progressions which are not possible on any other instrument. Learn more at thummer dott com.

The Thummer is an inexpensive tool for exploring and performing tonal relationships such as these with unprecedented potential for emotional expression. As such, it is hardly a toy -- but it sure is fun! :-)

[JimPlamondon]

Sysphus13, please forgive the brevity of my comments, which are forced to the brink of rudeness by YouTube's 500 character limit. I appreciate your taking the time to comment on the Thummer. :-)

[JimPlamondon]

Had the keyboardists of the 1700's used your metric, then Glenn Gould et al. would be playing harpsichords. The piano added the ability to control a single extra DoF -- key velocity -- to keyboard performance. Creative artists learned to play more expressively than harpsichordists by exploiting this single extra DoF. The Thummer offers up to NINE more DoF than the piano. Creative artists will find ways to exploit these extra DoF expressively, just as they found ways to exploit key velocity.

[sysphus13]

my metric? hmmm..Glenn Gould, Horowitz, Thelonious monk..herbie hancock, brad mehldau. I have to go with those measurements. Jim, great novelty you got here..sounds kinda cool, but yes, making claims that this instrument can even begin to compare to a piano in terms of expressiveness or superiority is downright PRETENTIOUS! (yes, excessive and unjustified)

[sysphus13]

why not just learn piano ?!

[JimPlamondon]

Five reasons:

1. The Thummer is easier to learn.

2. The Thummer is more expressive.

3. The Thummer can control novel and unique musical effects (Dynamic Tuning).

4. The Thummer is more portable.

5. If you've learned to use a computer keyboard and a video game controller, then you already have the basic motor skills needed to play a Thummer.

Learn more at thummer [dott] com.

[sysphus13]

its a cool invention, but to say it is more expressive than a piano is quite pretentious..good luck with it anyway..

[JimPlamondon]

A pretentious claim is "unjustified or excessive."

My metric of expressive power is "the number of independent variables that can be controlled simultaneously by a performer [aka Degrees of Freedom, DoF] without decreasing polyphony." With its pressure-sensitive buttons, joysticks, and motion sensors, the Thummer offers up to 13 DoF. The piano offers four (key velocity and three pedals). Thummer wins. What's your metric?

See thummer [dott] com/reviews [dott] asp.

[zekesumner]

Whats so exiting about it its a rip off of a keyboard

but with buttons this looks too simple to play