What's the reasoning for the second fuel injector in the recirculation path? Wouldn't the low airflow at high load cause atomization problems with this injector?
@knduong it's built in cars. the problem is, is it goes through 3 fuel cycles per revolution. a normal 4 cycle engine goes through 1 fuel cycle per 2 revolutions. it's inefficient, and very difficult to build. sure it's smaller, but it burns more fuel, oil, and is not easy to preform maintenance on.
@knduong A few decades ago, Mazda did move to phase out piston engines in favor of rotaries. Unfortunately, it came at about the same time when there was a hike in fuel costs. That, coupled with the fact that, at the time, rotaries were fuel-inefficient, nearly led to bankruptcy.
Right now, strong pushes toward fuel-efficiency and the rather exotic materials and techniques used in a rotary are keeping overall production down.
This same effect could be achieved without moving parts, by cutting narrow diagonal grooves into the outer wall of the housing between the intake and compression sections.
The objection of this intake system is for emission control and improved fuel economy for the wankel engine, top end power at wide open throttle is uneffected.
The end engine load result is the same ie:
@ -10psi vacuum (5psia) in throttle valve engine at 10:1 compression is 50psia - 14.7(one atmosphere) = 45.3psi (not including thermal expansion/friction/turbulence values)
or
One atmosphere (14.7 psia) compressed only 3:1 (via bleed off tract) in light load = 44.1psi
This wont work. The engine will be starved of oxygen by displacing the very little vacc that exists from the pulling of the intake stroke. it might work with forced induction on top of existing design. your also forgetting that like the fc's s4 to s5 na engine change rotor pulse capture makes a great deal of difference in horse power.
they can lower emmisions, maybe, by using diesel instead of the traditional fuel. Since they are coming with their pistons that runs on diesel for better gas mileage.
@TheGrim666 No, I ran a simulation, the compression ratio has to increase even after diesel injection in order to achieve what is call "optimum combustion".
Mazda found that by also increasing displacement, by enlarging the engines internal dimensions, but THINNING their width, would keep weight almost the exact same as the MSP, increase cooling capacity, and with the added benefit of direct injection, they can make much more power than the rated 238fwhp/180rwhp, with a significant increase in torque output, BUT, emissions is barely passable. once mazda figures it out, it wont be long for a new rotary powered, PURE sports car to come back
its hard enough that mazda is so close to finishing the new 16x engine, all they need to do is find out how to lower emissions to meet FUTURE regulations. Mazda took 5 years, after going with a direct injected rotary, that they need to further increase compression ratio from the 13B-MSP's 10:1 ratio to something around 11-13:1 to have decent power and meet regs.
@se7en1976 No one cares, moron. Rotaries that are taken care of properly last a very long time. Dipshits who either owned one and had it break down, or ricer fags who got their Si beaten by an RX, just get the fuck over it. Learn how to maintain a car, or get a real car, respectively.
@MKBoyardee LOL you're right.. noone cares. Nothing you said inspired me to think that you know anything about engines... The only thing I did think is that you might be about 20years old, and have heard of this rotary magic from some old die hard on his 50th build.. Good luck growing up sunshine :)
Rotary engines already have a low compression ratio which decreases fuel economy (hence the use of turbos / superchargers to 'fake' more compression by upping the intake pressure.
This 'solution' would further decrease the compression ratio by allowing compressed air/fuel out of the compression cycle and pump it back into the following intake cycle (and possibly back out the intake if incoming pressure is lower).
@kagief rotors collapsing is the result of detonation and/or oil starvation as the rotors are cooled by oil sprayed from the e-shaft opposite of the side the rotors gear.
not once, have i torn down a rotary that lived its life as an unmodded, daily driven car, had a collapsed rotor.
the ones i DID see, came from aftermarket setups with poor tuning.
basically an exhaust gas recycler, as is used on every EPA-compliant reciprocating engine these days. The only real difference is that the recycler is integral to the block, so there is no way to bypass it if you want to screw emission control in favor of better power.
What your doing by putting a hole in the compression chamber is reducing compression, thus completely destroying your power, and therefore your fuel economy.
I fail to see how this would produce any benefit whatsoever... so the idea is to compress air into the secondary chamber, but by doing so you are losing air and fuel out of the main chamber, completely useless.
Can someone tell me how much gas fulls the first chamber of the cycle??...I mean, when is the fuel injection, how much fuel is admmited?? I know it depends of how much you are accelerating, but let´s suppose you are at max power...how many times per second does the chamber fulls?? So in less words Im trying to ask about the fuel wasting in the cylce in a determinated time. Thanks!
i see at this type of engine gas is injected all time this would not be a saveing engine it'll consume lot of gas, and how is this rotary shaft is mounted in the middle of the chamber and another thing there is somthing wrong with the rotation rotation like that will make lot of vibration
the design to me is almost identical to the atkinson cycle in a 4 stroke piston engine. in other words, sacrificing power density for better fuel efficiency.
and when the engine revs higher, it is identical to a conventional rotary engine. not a bad idea.
if people doesn't know what is an atkinson cycle piston engine, go google and read it and understand what happens when the intake valve is left open longer during compression phase.
ahhh, it took me a while to figure out how this would help at all, but the point of this is to create power loss in the same way that a throttle body does, but rather than blocking blocking the intake the way the throttle body does, it it pumps some of the air to itself. the only problem is that this engine will not produce any vacuum to run accessories off of. although this can be remedied with a vacuum pump (same as the ones on diesels)
@Thingamajigs Pretend the circle in the center of the rotor has a marker at the center of rotation. The rotor speed itself is actually fairly accurate, as its three times slower than the e-shafts speed as measured by the tachometer.
@Leukoplast3 it would still be spinning ludicrously faster than that. the animation would just be a blur if he made it that fast though making the whole demonstration rather pointless. thingamajigs is likely just trolling imo
The French Peugeot had an almost identical design call a lung but for 2 cycle piston engine ("poumon" in French). Combined with fuel injection, it allowed very lean burning at low to medium power, with associated fuel economy. But new stricter exhaust emission rules killed the idea before it ever came to market.
Emission is also what killed the Wankel engine. Whit very long and narrow combustion chamber, the gas/air mixture burn incompletely, especially at the 2 extremity of the chamber.
I don't know why Mazda does not apply the rotary engine to all their vehicles. talk about a selling point right? They should at least offer the option of getting the rotary in more (if not all) of their models.
How about a needle valve with a long stem with multiple seals on it. The needle portion, of course would be somewhat blunt compared to the usual needle.
Wankel motor, open an RX-8s bonet to see one :D, high rpms, bad fuel consumption, a rx-8 uses more fuel than a muscle car with a v8 of the equivalent power
looks to me like it would make the bottom end rev range response better and more grunt. looks like its letting air in around the other half of the rotor to get rid of the dead spot in the gray area.
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My brother Markus Bott had been tortured during 5.5 years by the German BND. He was assassinated on 11.7.09 because of our homepage.
German snitchers are following me on youtube and immediately flag my postings.
It seems there'd be few ways to make this clean enough for the insane EPA regulations...also would have much dirtier oil than a Wankel-type motor, right?
@BYCURE213 thats easy,..First,get a dual function oxidation terminal isolating reversable fusing spigot,then attach a cyclone beam pressure magnet to the throttle viscosity cable ensuring that you have the BS6230 retractable outrigging bolt firmly fixed to the multi combination alternating polarity alignment sediment container.,then its just a matter of connecting the ^^//96 hydraulic axle limit gradient to the H36 centrifugal spark mounting pin..
I think it's funny when ppl with piston engines hate the rotary just cause you know nothing about it, you will talk shit you will hate it n try to bring it down but guess what Audi is planning on releasing their own rotary in a hybrid vehicle yes crazy stuff but amazing that Audi is willing to bring out a rotary to produce a more fuel efficient vehicle! All you need is research n things happen! Mazda made hydrogen run in a rotary with practically no modification. All you haters need to embrace
This is used to increase compression...just as a turbo is used to increase compression on cylinder engines.In this case, this could help improve fuel efficiency, the main reason, I believe, the Wankel engines failed to enter mass production, they are more "thirsty" than current cylinder engines.
too bad this is almost usless now... thanks to tesla motors you can just have a superbadass electric motor. pretty simple. look it up, you can generate as much torque as a freight truck in an engine you could fit into a smart car.
By volume, rotary engines produce more power than piston engines. Fuel efficiency comparison is debatable but definitely in rotary's favor. This is particularly due to the lapse of strokes 3 and 4 are entirely arbitrary in terms of power. On the contrary, the rotary engine has less moving parts and no waste of movement actually converting the movement into momentum. The primary reason rotary engines are used in such limited scope is due to its cost efficiency the seals of the rotar wear out.
@JMiller8888 These seals wear out within 20,000 miles or so and require regular engine maintenance to maintain performance. An engine that requires a rebuild every three months or so is not economically feasible. Once further research is done to resolve seal issues and perserve longevity of these engines, this can be a very formidable engine for future use.
bonjour, je souhaiterais recevoir les coordonnées d'un fabricant de moteur vankel pour une cylindrée comprise entre 20 cc et 50 cc merci de votre attention bien cordialement Michel hello ! I looking for the manufacturer of engine vankel to 20 cc at 50 cc thank you very munch best regards michel chabrut@wanadoo.fr
@marek0086 lmao are you serious!?! Once you spin a con-rod bearing or main bearing, valve seals wear out, timing belt/chain breaks, or any other moving part fails then you will see the genius of the rotary engine. The piston/rotor and crankshaft are the only moving parts, now that is an efficient engine! I bet you never thought 1.3 liters of displacement could produce as much peak power as a 6-cylinder piss-ton engine. Check out Mad Mike's old NA 4-rotor (2.6L) RX-7 making 500+HP at the wheels!
@marek0086 really?? a piston engine looses roughly 40% of the power created do to fact it has change linear motion to rotational motion. huge waste of power, rotary looses roughly 14% but, it has to have roughly 71% air to fuel ration to keep the engine running. But a piston engine will get you better gas mileage, but power no,
@bontis101~ Ye... it has the ability to create more power. But that doesnt mean SHIT!, and u would know that, if u truely knew what u were talking about!
Its power per fuel consumption!.... the Brake-Specific-Fuel-Consumption of the shit Rotary is higher than Piston engine!. THEREFORE.... the rotary uses more fuel than a piston engine to make the SAME power!!
@marek0086 That is true, but you have to realize, a lot less R&D has gone into rotary engines than what has gone into piston engines. Newer rotors are much more fuel efficient than the older 13Bs / 12A etc. Technology is still evolving.
the recirculation happens in the intake "stroke". there will unlikely be any leakage as the air is not yet compressed. the stoich psi would will drop not as much at lower rpm/throttle as the air is recirculated through a super short air way. In simple terms, more responsive and less lag. Mileage? don't think so. air is recirculated, more air more fuel to balance the ratio. Cons? prolly heat and surge afterall this design tweaks the airflow similar to force induction. This is my non expert GUESS.
Mazda R&D available through SAE letters shows that there are power losses associated with any hole on the periphery of the housing. When the apex seal directly over the valved hole you are going to leak exhaust gas into the following cycle. The location and very presence of the trailing spark plug hole can reduce power output, and look at it, a tiny pin hole. This design would have decreased output everywhere. The hole would need to be in the end or intermediate housings.
I've never thought about it. But this actually makes sense. The gases can leak becasue the apex of teh rotor is only 2mm thick. If the hole diameter exceeds the width of the seal. The gases can bleed between chambers..interesting...
@joshuadotl I've never thought about it. But this actually makes sense. The gases can leak becasue the apex of teh rotor is only 2mm thick. If the hole diameter exceeds the width of the seal. The gases can bleed between chambers..interesting...
@joshuadotl But if you look at it correctly you will only have power loss out of throttle this is just to save your fuel when cruising and at like half throttle or something full throttle it closes and is like the normal rotary so I makes it for a more efficient motor
@joshuadotl to be fair, the purpose of this design is to bleed from one cycle into the next cycle. at the sparks, it bleeds exhaust into the compression because it sits between those two strokes.
this hole sits between compression and intake, so it would bleed compression into intake, which is the design.
imho, it is adding extra complexity and i don't see any gains, so i agree with your conclusion :p
@anasamla not quite. If the engine is more efficient, and makes more power on the same amount of fuel you'd be on the throttle less and would use less fuel.
Μαγικος κινητηρας.Καμμια σχεση με τον παλιο και την πολλαπλη εισαγωγης.. Ωμη δυναμη, περισσοτερη οικονομια απολυτος ελεγχος.. Δειτε τη βαλβιδα ρηντ; Δειτε το μπεκ ψεκασμου για το λαδι όλοι οσοι ασχετοι λετε οτι το μαζντα καιει λαδια; Φυσικα καιει αφου ετσι δουλευει ! Αυτοκινητο που τα βαζει με γιγαντες των 70.000+ στο ενα τριτο της τιμης των.Το απολυτο σπορ 4 αθεσιο!
Μαγικος κινητηρας.Καμμια σχεση με τον παλιο και την πολλαπλη εισαγωγης.. Ωμη δυναμη, περισσοτερη οικονομια απολυτος ελεγχος.. Δειτε τη βαλβιδα ρηντ; Δειτε το μπεκ ψεκασμου για το λαδι όλοι οσοι ασχετοι λετε οτι το μαζντα καιει λαδια; Φυσικα καιει αφου ετσι δουλευει ! Αυτοκινητο που τα βαζει με γιγαντες των 70.000+ στο ενα τριτο της τιμης των.Το απολυτο σπορ 4 αθεσιο!
μαγικος κιντηρας καιδεν και οσο ο παλιος με την πολλαπλη εισαγωγης..Ειναι πολυ πιο ευελεικτος και ανταποκρισμιμος στο γκαζι, αφου υπαρχει π αυθειας ψεκασμος και οσες κακες γλωσσες λενε οτι καιει λαδι -Φυσικα και καει- εχει δευτερο μπεκ που ψεκαζει λαδι..αλλα 100 μλ στα 1000 χιλ ειναι μηδεν..Ειδατε την βαλβιδα ρηντ τι δουλεια κανει στην οικονομία; Με αυτα τα χρηματα δεν αγοραζεις ουτε μισο αυτοκινητο ισων επιδοσεω. Γι αυτο τα βαζει μεγιγαντες των 70-80.000 Ευρω με απολυτη ασφαλεια.
i would think it would be hard to exactly control air fuel ratio as air traveling though that channel would have fuel drop develop on the walls. these droplets would then reenter the air stream randomly. thus causing precisely controlled A/F ratio to be unpredictable. not something you want in modern engines that need to pass strict emissions test. your also adding an additional weak point to the housing, and adding extra parts that can fail. its a nice idea though.
I have a new design that will give better gas millage, create electricity for hybrids and give extra performance for racing cars, it's uncomplicated, most of the theory is already being used in other applications just for a different purpose. If your an inventor and know how to get stuff pass the design stage please feel free to drop me a message but do not ask me to post my designs unless you can prove you are legit.
1. The valve shown would have to close fully prior to ignition otherwise the high pressure caused by the burning gases would escape and cause a backfire. This would probably require a tappet valve so you'd need a camshaft, chain, etc, and hence more mechanical parts than a normal rotary.
2. I don't quite see how the pressure wave of unburnt air/fuel that escapes through the valve through the bytube would exactly match the decreased pressure at the inlet.
1. The valve is not in the ignition chamber so it does not matter if it is open or closed.
2. It looks as though it would vent some of the fuel gas mixture as it is entering the compression stage. So only say 2/3 "Just a guess" of the mixture would be there when the engine goes into the ignition stage.
So basically it would be a constant governor for better gas mileage.
it saves gas bc its not letting all the gas while idling to get burned it goes through until driver gives throttle and then valve is shut to use that gas
@ShufflinSkiitzo yeah, i think your right. im no engineer but i think recycling the gas like that would still make the engine more economical, so at the cost of some performance you get better economy, which seems like a fair trade off to me since rotary engines already make a great amount of power for their displacement. someone please correct me if im wrong
@hitman2701 lol not a stock rene. gotta put those in by hand... and you better have small hands i killed mine putting mine in and had to take it out again because of a darn hose leak :( ...hahah but the mazda speed 3 does i believe.
@hitman2701 lol not a stock rene. gotta put those in by hand... and you better have small hands i killed mine putting mine in and had to take it out again because of a darn hose leak :( ...hahah but the mazda speed 3 does i believe.
@hitman27 rx8's never where facotry turbo'd and not to be an ass but how do you buy a car and not know if it's turbo'd or not a friend of mine bought a gt500 when they first came out and asked me what the whining noise was under his hood he thought the belt was slipping did'd know it had a blower. i was dumbfounded
my car runs on gasoline. rotarys run on unicorn tears and black magic
ZBHampton 1 week ago
love the audio.
justinmiusuks 2 weeks ago
Seems legit
DroodleTech 2 weeks ago
Those crazy germans and their inventions
webgier 3 months ago 3
Comment removed
webgier 3 months ago
You can hear misfire at 0:19
2cv56 4 months ago
@2cv56 great ear!
jgm1234567 3 months ago
Has a model been built to demonstrate that this concept is valid?
Al828282 4 months ago 4
MAZDA RX-8 ENGINE
nerto1991 4 months ago
Thanks for the great animation! Visit the NXTutorials website for more cool tutorials on NX 8.
DesignViz 4 months ago
sure, more moving parts and valves in a rotary, what could possibly go wrong? I mean, they're already reliable as it is
117zoomzoom 4 months ago
Pretty neat.
RcKoZ159 5 months ago
i like it
benkerr69 5 months ago
The injector in circulation tract is low vol high atomising which tapers off as valve closes, meanwhile, hi vol injector takes over.
Not all that clear in the Gis but you can see it.
adi1tube 5 months ago
What's the reasoning for the second fuel injector in the recirculation path? Wouldn't the low airflow at high load cause atomization problems with this injector?
bpogi38 5 months ago
Comment removed
bpogi38 5 months ago
if you can can make it consume less fuel,i'll pay u 1 millions dollars to build it :D
azerslay 6 months ago
backfire at :19.
MrNotch9 6 months ago
R these Engines out as yet?
hp11208 6 months ago
4 years after this video upload have you exploit this patent? it looks very intersting
omerta410 6 months ago
Why isn't this in my car yet?
knduong 6 months ago
@knduong mazda rx-7 have Wankel rotary engines.
MrNotch9 6 months ago
@MrNotch9 That doesn't answer my question.
knduong 6 months ago
@knduong it's built in cars. the problem is, is it goes through 3 fuel cycles per revolution. a normal 4 cycle engine goes through 1 fuel cycle per 2 revolutions. it's inefficient, and very difficult to build. sure it's smaller, but it burns more fuel, oil, and is not easy to preform maintenance on.
MrNotch9 6 months ago
@knduong does that answer your question?
MrNotch9 6 months ago
@MrNotch9 If its built in cars, how come i don't see it? That doesn't answer my question still. Just stop trolling.
I have a 13B engine and i know what rotary engines are, I'm wondering why haven't we gotten these more fuel efficient rotary motors in the mazdas.
knduong 6 months ago
@knduong A few decades ago, Mazda did move to phase out piston engines in favor of rotaries. Unfortunately, it came at about the same time when there was a hike in fuel costs. That, coupled with the fact that, at the time, rotaries were fuel-inefficient, nearly led to bankruptcy.
Right now, strong pushes toward fuel-efficiency and the rather exotic materials and techniques used in a rotary are keeping overall production down.
GammaCruxis 6 months ago
can anyone else see the reason why this would never work?
CRAZYSTOO 6 months ago
@CRAZYSTOO it's not allowing compression.
MrNotch9 6 months ago
@MrNotch9 one point goes to you sir.
CRAZYSTOO 6 months ago
This same effect could be achieved without moving parts, by cutting narrow diagonal grooves into the outer wall of the housing between the intake and compression sections.
deusexaethera 6 months ago
The objection of this intake system is for emission control and improved fuel economy for the wankel engine, top end power at wide open throttle is uneffected.
The end engine load result is the same ie:
@ -10psi vacuum (5psia) in throttle valve engine at 10:1 compression is 50psia - 14.7(one atmosphere) = 45.3psi (not including thermal expansion/friction/turbulence values)
or
One atmosphere (14.7 psia) compressed only 3:1 (via bleed off tract) in light load = 44.1psi
adi1tube 7 months ago
amazing showing a patent in this way
crudeoilsystems 7 months ago
This wont work. The engine will be starved of oxygen by displacing the very little vacc that exists from the pulling of the intake stroke. it might work with forced induction on top of existing design. your also forgetting that like the fc's s4 to s5 na engine change rotor pulse capture makes a great deal of difference in horse power.
phirzcol 7 months ago
they can lower emmisions, maybe, by using diesel instead of the traditional fuel. Since they are coming with their pistons that runs on diesel for better gas mileage.
yangboi88 7 months ago
@yangboi88 You can't use diesel because you can't ignite it with spark plugs, only by extreme compression.
Beef1188 7 months ago
@Beef1188 If you replace the spark plugs with diesel injectors it could work
TheGrim666 7 months ago
@TheGrim666 No, I ran a simulation, the compression ratio has to increase even after diesel injection in order to achieve what is call "optimum combustion".
Beef1188 7 months ago
Mazda found that by also increasing displacement, by enlarging the engines internal dimensions, but THINNING their width, would keep weight almost the exact same as the MSP, increase cooling capacity, and with the added benefit of direct injection, they can make much more power than the rated 238fwhp/180rwhp, with a significant increase in torque output, BUT, emissions is barely passable. once mazda figures it out, it wont be long for a new rotary powered, PURE sports car to come back
rotor13 7 months ago
i cant see this working.
its hard enough that mazda is so close to finishing the new 16x engine, all they need to do is find out how to lower emissions to meet FUTURE regulations. Mazda took 5 years, after going with a direct injected rotary, that they need to further increase compression ratio from the 13B-MSP's 10:1 ratio to something around 11-13:1 to have decent power and meet regs.
rotor13 7 months ago
It´s simply the Wankel Enginge, patented by Felix Wankel in 1929. It´s a very old technology, although brilliant ;)
TheVodkanator 7 months ago
Lets hope THIS engine isnt a total piece of shit :)
se7en1976 8 months ago
@se7en1976 No one cares, moron. Rotaries that are taken care of properly last a very long time. Dipshits who either owned one and had it break down, or ricer fags who got their Si beaten by an RX, just get the fuck over it. Learn how to maintain a car, or get a real car, respectively.
MKBoyardee 7 months ago
@MKBoyardee LOL you're right.. noone cares. Nothing you said inspired me to think that you know anything about engines... The only thing I did think is that you might be about 20years old, and have heard of this rotary magic from some old die hard on his 50th build.. Good luck growing up sunshine :)
se7en1976 7 months ago
This is an odd 'solution.'
Rotary engines already have a low compression ratio which decreases fuel economy (hence the use of turbos / superchargers to 'fake' more compression by upping the intake pressure.
This 'solution' would further decrease the compression ratio by allowing compressed air/fuel out of the compression cycle and pump it back into the following intake cycle (and possibly back out the intake if incoming pressure is lower).
This would make the 'problem' worse.
mandarave 8 months ago
that still doesn't solve the rotor collapse problem that wankel engines safer
kagief 8 months ago
@kagief rotors collapsing is the result of detonation and/or oil starvation as the rotors are cooled by oil sprayed from the e-shaft opposite of the side the rotors gear.
not once, have i torn down a rotary that lived its life as an unmodded, daily driven car, had a collapsed rotor.
the ones i DID see, came from aftermarket setups with poor tuning.
rotor13 7 months ago
basically an exhaust gas recycler, as is used on every EPA-compliant reciprocating engine these days. The only real difference is that the recycler is integral to the block, so there is no way to bypass it if you want to screw emission control in favor of better power.
flyboyII 8 months ago
not possible for generates little power
TutorialC4DeAdobe 8 months ago
What your doing by putting a hole in the compression chamber is reducing compression, thus completely destroying your power, and therefore your fuel economy.
thundercactus 8 months ago
I fail to see how this would produce any benefit whatsoever... so the idea is to compress air into the secondary chamber, but by doing so you are losing air and fuel out of the main chamber, completely useless.
runangolee 8 months ago
Can someone tell me how much gas fulls the first chamber of the cycle??...I mean, when is the fuel injection, how much fuel is admmited?? I know it depends of how much you are accelerating, but let´s suppose you are at max power...how many times per second does the chamber fulls?? So in less words Im trying to ask about the fuel wasting in the cylce in a determinated time. Thanks!
Rich94Fast 8 months ago
so, this is essentially a VTEC Rotary?
Seitzy411 8 months ago
sht mod
angrygunsmith 9 months ago
Peak oil, sooner the better
largespliff 9 months ago
LOL what a nice rip off of the original WANKEL ROTARY ENGINE..p.s. Mazda didn't creat the wankel either.
Me102288 9 months ago
i see at this type of engine gas is injected all time this would not be a saveing engine it'll consume lot of gas, and how is this rotary shaft is mounted in the middle of the chamber and another thing there is somthing wrong with the rotation rotation like that will make lot of vibration
stroggwars 9 months ago
its so obvious this is a built in turbo capable of producing over 100psi and 400whp at 25 miles per gallon on regular unleaded gasoline
paintballgundown8 9 months ago
injeniouis*
livindaunderground 10 months ago
If this better, why it doesnt under production yet.
YYaaall 10 months ago
the design to me is almost identical to the atkinson cycle in a 4 stroke piston engine. in other words, sacrificing power density for better fuel efficiency.
and when the engine revs higher, it is identical to a conventional rotary engine. not a bad idea.
if people doesn't know what is an atkinson cycle piston engine, go google and read it and understand what happens when the intake valve is left open longer during compression phase.
cfyung85 10 months ago
The valve is letting in air, and the rotor is pushing the air into that tunel. So the air gets re injected after being compressed by the rotor.
not sure why this is better
MrIlovebmw86 10 months ago
@MrIlovebmw86 So the air can be re-used?
keyboardjeff 10 months ago
Any-one else thinking Air treak?
FLAMINBBQ 11 months ago
I suspect that it might be more helpful if the exhaust was recirculated instead
tnphysics 11 months ago
@tnphysics is exhaust combustible air?
mtj0rge 10 months ago
what is that valve that closes or opens as the acceleration? and it uses for what??
skillcape99 11 months ago
ahhh, it took me a while to figure out how this would help at all, but the point of this is to create power loss in the same way that a throttle body does, but rather than blocking blocking the intake the way the throttle body does, it it pumps some of the air to itself. the only problem is that this engine will not produce any vacuum to run accessories off of. although this can be remedied with a vacuum pump (same as the ones on diesels)
deathparade32 11 months ago
something tells me the animation should be spinning much faster than that...
Thingamajigs 1 year ago 72
@Thingamajigs Pretend the circle in the center of the rotor has a marker at the center of rotation. The rotor speed itself is actually fairly accurate, as its three times slower than the e-shafts speed as measured by the tachometer.
DivineWindSerpent 10 months ago
@Thingamajigs I'm feeling like there should be a housing on the outside of the rotor too...
jedwards09elmira 10 months ago
@Thingamajigs not really no
it looks like it's spinning slowly but wankel's engine works with shaft-rotor 3:1 motion principal
/watch?v=OuId4nuxXaM&feature=fvwrel
one full spin of the rotor means 3 spins of the shaft
so it looks like it doesn't fit the sound but eyes are lying :)
Leukoplast3 9 months ago
@Leukoplast3 it would still be spinning ludicrously faster than that. the animation would just be a blur if he made it that fast though making the whole demonstration rather pointless. thingamajigs is likely just trolling imo
blueleeder323 8 months ago
@Thingamajigs Maybe, but the gear within the triangular gear is rotating at 3x the speed.
chitownsportsfan1 4 months ago
@nathanlorimer for better emissions, save your gas because since these do not have valves they let a lot of unburn gas in the exhaust
Tj1056 1 year ago
The French Peugeot had an almost identical design call a lung but for 2 cycle piston engine ("poumon" in French). Combined with fuel injection, it allowed very lean burning at low to medium power, with associated fuel economy. But new stricter exhaust emission rules killed the idea before it ever came to market.
Emission is also what killed the Wankel engine. Whit very long and narrow combustion chamber, the gas/air mixture burn incompletely, especially at the 2 extremity of the chamber.
brickandfanal 1 year ago
Too many Vibrations and small life-cycle
Iljo87 1 year ago
good for vehicle purpose
mmmanu99 1 year ago
Im Honda all the way but if Mazda made all their cars Rotary I would definitely get a Mazda 6 Rotary. That would Kick Arss.
RiverasTostoneras 1 year ago
this is kind of like a "miller cycle" rotary engine... very smart idea
lt379 1 year ago 2
I don't know why Mazda does not apply the rotary engine to all their vehicles. talk about a selling point right? They should at least offer the option of getting the rotary in more (if not all) of their models.
OmarBhoo 1 year ago
How about a needle valve with a long stem with multiple seals on it. The needle portion, of course would be somewhat blunt compared to the usual needle.
hopeso 1 year ago
Wankel motor, open an RX-8s bonet to see one :D, high rpms, bad fuel consumption, a rx-8 uses more fuel than a muscle car with a v8 of the equivalent power
Lazzlo000 1 year ago
this is like the Vtec rotor
sof1map 1 year ago
@sof1map like a Vtec......ehhh what..like, as like...the same...I don't think so...
TeeWeeQcKsteel 1 year ago
@TeeWeeQcKsteel you can see exactly why i said like a Vtec. and i was joking.. rotors ftw some people..
sof1map 1 year ago
i might just be weird but i just jizzed...... lol
gta4rulesass 1 year ago
@gta4rulesass What the!!!
maZZiveAttack 1 year ago
It seems off balance to me.
Reverseflush 1 year ago
I'd advise you use a sliding valve or something.. That thing is never gonna be able to seal.
joffeloff 1 year ago
looks to me like it would make the bottom end rev range response better and more grunt. looks like its letting air in around the other half of the rotor to get rid of the dead spot in the gray area.
interesting stuff!!
NuZiNo 1 year ago
i just replayed this video 15 times. great stuff!
Sheshant 1 year ago
fuel consumption must be extremely high~~
Ekmurl 1 year ago
what's the point of the new part??
sorry I don't have talent on mechanical stuff......
john9413 1 year ago
@john9413 ...the bypass valve! With this valve it changes the circulation and the later also the combustion.....
ChrisLuxembourg 1 year ago
whoever invented rotaries is a genius
Gidenkidenk 1 year ago
yea very efficient, but you're gonna lose a LOT of power to that valve. power i am not willing to give up.
goober239 1 year ago
@goober239 idk from the looks of it... looks like it closes on full throttle but cruising looks to be more fuel efficient
Tj1056 1 year ago
Is it just me or does the engine in the soundbite backfire at 0:18. I didn't know a rotary could backfire...
Anyhow, The only advantage I see to this is a little more power. Sure wouldn't help fuel use...
mattg889 1 year ago
@mattg889 they backfire more then most cars do lol
Tj1056 1 year ago
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wwwtotalitaerde 1 year ago
EGR-valve
glennvanderakt 1 year ago
It seems there'd be few ways to make this clean enough for the insane EPA regulations...also would have much dirtier oil than a Wankel-type motor, right?
CalicoatMaker 1 year ago
whats the valve for?
BYCURE213 1 year ago
@BYCURE213 thats easy,..First,get a dual function oxidation terminal isolating reversable fusing spigot,then attach a cyclone beam pressure magnet to the throttle viscosity cable ensuring that you have the BS6230 retractable outrigging bolt firmly fixed to the multi combination alternating polarity alignment sediment container.,then its just a matter of connecting the ^^//96 hydraulic axle limit gradient to the H36 centrifugal spark mounting pin..
volkscom 1 year ago
@volkscom ohh yeah that made sence lol... i kinda got like 25% of that but its all good, i might learn this in school come 01/272011... lol
BYCURE213 1 year ago
@volkscom NO! Thats for a Retro-Encabulator.
CalicoatMaker 1 year ago
I think it's funny when ppl with piston engines hate the rotary just cause you know nothing about it, you will talk shit you will hate it n try to bring it down but guess what Audi is planning on releasing their own rotary in a hybrid vehicle yes crazy stuff but amazing that Audi is willing to bring out a rotary to produce a more fuel efficient vehicle! All you need is research n things happen! Mazda made hydrogen run in a rotary with practically no modification. All you haters need to embrace
G77R 1 year ago
Well I think this is cool. and to the ones that say Rotarys are shit.
Find me A non rotary engine thats 1.3l's and can make over 800hp!
My rx7 is making 516.7 whp and 423.3 wt. and it gets 25mpg Highway
and 18 in town. What piston can do that?? They can't!! not as a 1.3L.
Thanks and thats is just my too sents Have a great day haha.
mazdaman85rx7 1 year ago
@mazdaman85rx7
BMW made a 1.5L 4cylinder engine, producing 1,500HP
Yowzer360 1 year ago
This is used to increase compression...just as a turbo is used to increase compression on cylinder engines.In this case, this could help improve fuel efficiency, the main reason, I believe, the Wankel engines failed to enter mass production, they are more "thirsty" than current cylinder engines.
contrastej 1 year ago
too bad this is almost usless now... thanks to tesla motors you can just have a superbadass electric motor. pretty simple. look it up, you can generate as much torque as a freight truck in an engine you could fit into a smart car.
lightfright 1 year ago
improve emission?
deafdude6 1 year ago
By volume, rotary engines produce more power than piston engines. Fuel efficiency comparison is debatable but definitely in rotary's favor. This is particularly due to the lapse of strokes 3 and 4 are entirely arbitrary in terms of power. On the contrary, the rotary engine has less moving parts and no waste of movement actually converting the movement into momentum. The primary reason rotary engines are used in such limited scope is due to its cost efficiency the seals of the rotar wear out.
JMiller8888 1 year ago
@JMiller8888 These seals wear out within 20,000 miles or so and require regular engine maintenance to maintain performance. An engine that requires a rebuild every three months or so is not economically feasible. Once further research is done to resolve seal issues and perserve longevity of these engines, this can be a very formidable engine for future use.
JMiller8888 1 year ago
Comment removed
ziopziop 1 year ago
79chab 1 year ago
Stuff the Wankel Rotary!.... its totally inferior to the piston engine!
marek0086 1 year ago
@marek0086 lmao are you serious!?! Once you spin a con-rod bearing or main bearing, valve seals wear out, timing belt/chain breaks, or any other moving part fails then you will see the genius of the rotary engine. The piston/rotor and crankshaft are the only moving parts, now that is an efficient engine! I bet you never thought 1.3 liters of displacement could produce as much peak power as a 6-cylinder piss-ton engine. Check out Mad Mike's old NA 4-rotor (2.6L) RX-7 making 500+HP at the wheels!
Starcruiser81 1 year ago
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@Starcruiser81~ U have absolutely no idea.
marek0086 1 year ago
@marek0086 thats y R26B eats piston engines for lunch munch munch munch.
bontis101 1 year ago
@bontis101~u havnt the slightest clue about physics/chemistry.
marek0086 1 year ago
@marek0086 totally right, i mean im just navy nuke, what do i know about physics or chemistry
bontis101 1 year ago
@bontis101~well u dont know shit about engines. If u did u'd know that the Wankel Rotary is a totally inferior design to the Piston engine.
marek0086 1 year ago
@marek0086 really?? a piston engine looses roughly 40% of the power created do to fact it has change linear motion to rotational motion. huge waste of power, rotary looses roughly 14% but, it has to have roughly 71% air to fuel ration to keep the engine running. But a piston engine will get you better gas mileage, but power no,
bontis101 1 year ago
@bontis101~ Ye... it has the ability to create more power. But that doesnt mean SHIT!, and u would know that, if u truely knew what u were talking about!
Its power per fuel consumption!.... the Brake-Specific-Fuel-Consumption of the shit Rotary is higher than Piston engine!. THEREFORE.... the rotary uses more fuel than a piston engine to make the SAME power!!
marek0086 1 year ago
@marek0086 That is true, but you have to realize, a lot less R&D has gone into rotary engines than what has gone into piston engines. Newer rotors are much more fuel efficient than the older 13Bs / 12A etc. Technology is still evolving.
Yowzer360 1 year ago
@Yowzer360~ no you're wrong. The new RX8 is still very fuel inefficient.
marek0086 1 year ago
i dont think they will save those fuel -.- they wanted more money xD as for my government its like that. they wanted more money!
DrAgOnBoY63 1 year ago
the recirculation happens in the intake "stroke". there will unlikely be any leakage as the air is not yet compressed. the stoich psi would will drop not as much at lower rpm/throttle as the air is recirculated through a super short air way. In simple terms, more responsive and less lag. Mileage? don't think so. air is recirculated, more air more fuel to balance the ratio. Cons? prolly heat and surge afterall this design tweaks the airflow similar to force induction. This is my non expert GUESS.
fiaker 1 year ago
lack of power
tiesto2637 1 year ago
Mazda R&D available through SAE letters shows that there are power losses associated with any hole on the periphery of the housing. When the apex seal directly over the valved hole you are going to leak exhaust gas into the following cycle. The location and very presence of the trailing spark plug hole can reduce power output, and look at it, a tiny pin hole. This design would have decreased output everywhere. The hole would need to be in the end or intermediate housings.
joshuadotl 1 year ago 32
I've never thought about it. But this actually makes sense. The gases can leak becasue the apex of teh rotor is only 2mm thick. If the hole diameter exceeds the width of the seal. The gases can bleed between chambers..interesting...
rx7turbo1 1 year ago
@joshuadotl I've never thought about it. But this actually makes sense. The gases can leak becasue the apex of teh rotor is only 2mm thick. If the hole diameter exceeds the width of the seal. The gases can bleed between chambers..interesting...
rx7turbo1 1 year ago
@joshuadotl But if you look at it correctly you will only have power loss out of throttle this is just to save your fuel when cruising and at like half throttle or something full throttle it closes and is like the normal rotary so I makes it for a more efficient motor
Tj1056 1 year ago
@joshuadotl to be fair, the purpose of this design is to bleed from one cycle into the next cycle. at the sparks, it bleeds exhaust into the compression because it sits between those two strokes.
this hole sits between compression and intake, so it would bleed compression into intake, which is the design.
imho, it is adding extra complexity and i don't see any gains, so i agree with your conclusion :p
but im not an expert.
isays 1 year ago
@isays in simple terms - less power at lower rpm = better gas mileage, but u still get the power u need at a higher rpm
anasamla 11 months ago 17
@anasamla that is true of any engine.
This is adding complexity but I don't see any major advantages of pushing the compressed air/fuel into the intake stroke.
isays 11 months ago
@anasamla not quite. If the engine is more efficient, and makes more power on the same amount of fuel you'd be on the throttle less and would use less fuel.
JordanWallac3 4 months ago
@anasamla so in other words.. less torque..
TheBigshooter44 2 months ago
So how small can this motor be machined. And what did you think the power out put would be.
ethannght 1 year ago
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Ο απόλυτος περιστροφικος κινητήρας σημερα.! Ελεγχος καυσιμου, δυναμης και καυσαεριων
vocifeation 1 year ago
Ο απόλυτος περιστροφικος κινητήρας σημερα.! Ελεγχος καυσιμου, δυναμης και καυσαεριων
vocifeation 1 year ago
@vocifeation Are Ellhnares! Opos ta leme emeis, den ta leei kanenas!
dwreus 1 year ago
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Μαγικος κινητηρας.Καμμια σχεση με τον παλιο και την πολλαπλη εισαγωγης.. Ωμη δυναμη, περισσοτερη οικονομια απολυτος ελεγχος.. Δειτε τη βαλβιδα ρηντ; Δειτε το μπεκ ψεκασμου για το λαδι όλοι οσοι ασχετοι λετε οτι το μαζντα καιει λαδια; Φυσικα καιει αφου ετσι δουλευει ! Αυτοκινητο που τα βαζει με γιγαντες των 70.000+ στο ενα τριτο της τιμης των.Το απολυτο σπορ 4 αθεσιο!
vocifeation 1 year ago
Μαγικος κινητηρας.Καμμια σχεση με τον παλιο και την πολλαπλη εισαγωγης.. Ωμη δυναμη, περισσοτερη οικονομια απολυτος ελεγχος.. Δειτε τη βαλβιδα ρηντ; Δειτε το μπεκ ψεκασμου για το λαδι όλοι οσοι ασχετοι λετε οτι το μαζντα καιει λαδια; Φυσικα καιει αφου ετσι δουλευει ! Αυτοκινητο που τα βαζει με γιγαντες των 70.000+ στο ενα τριτο της τιμης των.Το απολυτο σπορ 4 αθεσιο!
vocifeation 1 year ago
μαγικος κιντηρας καιδεν και οσο ο παλιος με την πολλαπλη εισαγωγης..Ειναι πολυ πιο ευελεικτος και ανταποκρισμιμος στο γκαζι, αφου υπαρχει π αυθειας ψεκασμος και οσες κακες γλωσσες λενε οτι καιει λαδι -Φυσικα και καει- εχει δευτερο μπεκ που ψεκαζει λαδι..αλλα 100 μλ στα 1000 χιλ ειναι μηδεν..Ειδατε την βαλβιδα ρηντ τι δουλεια κανει στην οικονομία; Με αυτα τα χρηματα δεν αγοραζεις ουτε μισο αυτοκινητο ισων επιδοσεω. Γι αυτο τα βαζει μεγιγαντες των 70-80.000 Ευρω με απολυτη ασφαλεια.
vocifeation 1 year ago
@vocifeation
Sorry, even with Google translate, I can't see what you're getting at.
GrimlyCurmudgeon3 1 year ago
i would think it would be hard to exactly control air fuel ratio as air traveling though that channel would have fuel drop develop on the walls. these droplets would then reenter the air stream randomly. thus causing precisely controlled A/F ratio to be unpredictable. not something you want in modern engines that need to pass strict emissions test. your also adding an additional weak point to the housing, and adding extra parts that can fail. its a nice idea though.
berkeleyprime 1 year ago
I have a new design that will give better gas millage, create electricity for hybrids and give extra performance for racing cars, it's uncomplicated, most of the theory is already being used in other applications just for a different purpose. If your an inventor and know how to get stuff pass the design stage please feel free to drop me a message but do not ask me to post my designs unless you can prove you are legit.
milesK12 1 year ago
So this the little valve is like am EGR valve?
1PARADOXXX 1 year ago
I see two more issues with this design.
1. The valve shown would have to close fully prior to ignition otherwise the high pressure caused by the burning gases would escape and cause a backfire. This would probably require a tappet valve so you'd need a camshaft, chain, etc, and hence more mechanical parts than a normal rotary.
2. I don't quite see how the pressure wave of unburnt air/fuel that escapes through the valve through the bytube would exactly match the decreased pressure at the inlet.
Richarde1969 1 year ago
@Richarde1969
1. The valve is not in the ignition chamber so it does not matter if it is open or closed.
2. It looks as though it would vent some of the fuel gas mixture as it is entering the compression stage. So only say 2/3 "Just a guess" of the mixture would be there when the engine goes into the ignition stage.
So basically it would be a constant governor for better gas mileage.
if you want to save gas.... Good
if you want to go fast... Bad
MuShMaNn 1 year ago
you are just a fucker who want some candy
COD5252 1 year ago
THIS SETUP WILL RESULT IN LOW POWER PRODUCTION AND TORQUE FLUCTUATION & THAT WILL REQUIRE A HEAVIER FLYWHEEL
COD5252 1 year ago
it saves gas bc its not letting all the gas while idling to get burned it goes through until driver gives throttle and then valve is shut to use that gas
FREESTLE760 1 year ago
wankel motor
so ein scheiss
verdichtungs probleme
lager belastungen durch exzentrisches laufen
nvidiafighter33 1 year ago
@nvidiafighter33
"wankel engine thus shit compression problems camps loads by eccentric run"
Well done.
rutager4152 1 year ago
@rutager4152 google translate ftw
ShaneOryan 1 year ago
wouldnt the recirculated air/fuel be VERY hot, and make it not as efficient as it could be?
ShufflinSkiitzo 1 year ago
@ShufflinSkiitzo yeah, i think your right. im no engineer but i think recycling the gas like that would still make the engine more economical, so at the cost of some performance you get better economy, which seems like a fair trade off to me since rotary engines already make a great amount of power for their displacement. someone please correct me if im wrong
JSnyder49428 1 year ago
how many spins does it does by a second ????
yadriatvtoaa1ta 1 year ago
hi.please someone can tell me if mazda rx8 renesis 2009 has turbo or not ?
hitman2701 1 year ago
@hitman2701 lol not a stock rene. gotta put those in by hand... and you better have small hands i killed mine putting mine in and had to take it out again because of a darn hose leak :( ...hahah but the mazda speed 3 does i believe.
Fatalshot24 1 year ago
@hitman2701 lol not a stock rene. gotta put those in by hand... and you better have small hands i killed mine putting mine in and had to take it out again because of a darn hose leak :( ...hahah but the mazda speed 3 does i believe.
Fatalshot24 1 year ago
@hitman2701 Google fag
GunFactory09 1 year ago
@hitman27 rx8's never where facotry turbo'd and not to be an ass but how do you buy a car and not know if it's turbo'd or not a friend of mine bought a gt500 when they first came out and asked me what the whining noise was under his hood he thought the belt was slipping did'd know it had a blower. i was dumbfounded
djw4305 1 year ago
Soo After All The Rotary Engine Uses At Least A Valve Huh,, I Thought They Said The RE Dismisses The Idea Of Using Valves??
Soo What is The Valve For Now?,, Circulating UnUsed Fuel Or Provinding Air/Oxgen For Combustion?,, If So How?, Or For SomeOther Reason/Function?, :?
phigo4kins 1 year ago
@phigo4kins This one uses a Valve, ones people use in NSU's and Mazda's don't.
yerboogieman 1 year ago
This is fucking great! someone call the mazda factory!!!
glennvanderakt 1 year ago