Blazblue and Guilty Gear easily have higher skill caps than any other fighter I've ever played, with Street Fighter, specifically IV and AE, having the lowest.
Whenever I see idiots make really stupid comments on youtube videos, all I have to do is click onto their profile page on youtube and see their favorite videos and page background, and then I realize that they are worthless human beings and not worth responding to.
Far more technical than Brawl, to be sure, but I still prefer Brawl because it doesn't use hit-stun to hold my hand throughout consecutive attacks. I have to be on-guard and ready to dodge or stall in order to make hits land without being countered myself.
It's not a traditional combo system by any stretch, but it's still challenging.
Most serious MK's don't play to win? Serious people not playing to win? Look up any recent video with M2K or any other top level MK. The only exception to this is Nairo who happens to be moderately offensive.
I said they don't play using cheap-win tactics. The pros protect their rep by not resorting to cheap tactics. Mach spamming and infinite dimensional cape, in particular, are avoided during a tourney match by most MK players
But in any case, MK is an exception to the rule just due to how he is built with so little move lag. Outside of MK, the game is still challenging.
the reason why IDC isn't used is because the technique is banned in tournaments. Mach spamming doesn't work as the majority of the cast outside of characters such as Ganondorf and Donkey Kong have very easy ways to punish Nado. I personally main Luigi and his d-smash and n-air both overpower nados so that does not work. I personally play brawl btw. I play brawl competitively due to the community but i still find melee the more balanced game and more competitive game.
@smashbrolink I think your idea of what's "cheap" and what's not is a tad skewed. MK isn't even overpowered. Mach Tornado is easily counterable by any character that isn't Ganon or DK. Any projectile will break it, along with a wide variety of moves with each character. There's no point to using dimensional cape infinitely at all as well as being banned in the fist place so they can't just run away and let the timer run out. This isn't even an opinion, it's proven time and time again by players.
@Easmodx lol, don't worry. Dark is probably one of the most technical players in the world, he just doesn't make smart decisions and ends up being a lowly ranked player because, with the way he plays, he's flashier than he is effective.
@thefirstwhiteknight It's true that Dark is an amateurish player, but he is extremely technical, more so than Mango's fox without a doubt. Anyway, the point of this video was to exhibit tech skill, not the depth of the game itself, for which a clip like this works fine.
@FxckCensors and I really don't see how Marvel vs. Capcom is anymore of a big boy game, than melee. I could see you moving on because it new, but not because it's more mature, because that doesn't even make sence.
It's random that Dark is the star of this video since he's not even a top player. He's just some random dude from South America who is technical and competes with average players. Any guy and their mom could practice tech skill and style on a noob. Get some high level play on here and then make a video about how "technical" this game is.
@thefirstwhiteknight Check Mango vs Taj LF at Genesis 2. mango... maybe the best player is so technical... and his falco versus M2K also. go and check it out.
@thefirstwhiteknight well... about this "Get some high level play on here and then make a video about how "technical" this game is. Or maybe i just translated that wrong.. (english isn't my native language)... oh well.. i think i just screw this... love you all <3 (?) xD
@Accelerator11 At first I wanted to come up with some clever response to your comment but then I decided it would just be quicker to just call you incompetent.
SSBM is the greatest fighter video game in history. Otherwise, it wouldn't have a widely active community 10 years after its release, with no additions or expansions (like in the Street Fighter series and Starcraft).
So uhhh...i actually play melee...and uhhh ive tried to learn how to play sf4 and uhhhh, all that stuff in this video, wavedashing l canceling junk etc...all those ppl saying its rly easy...well they're right, all that stuff should be muscle memory and easy. but uh, i played sf4 for like 2 days and i can see how it can be hard but it seems alot like just hardcore doing the same thing over and over again until you dont miss a link anymore or you get plinking down or the timing to FADC and yadada
@yetwentyfive the most part of melee is reading your opponent and manipulating their patterns...so if you compare that to SF4 which is more restricted in movement, id say melee is harder to predict what your opponent will do cause theres so many more variables and modes to approach especially during combos. but i can see where SF4 would be hard as well
Goddamn, I am so fucking glad I somehow found this video. I just hope that one day these Melee "pros" will get their fucking heads out of their asses and at least TRY other games before claiming that their precious Melee is insanely technical and hard to learn, execution wise. No, no, no and no! It's not! I've played this game and I can do all of this garbage effortlessly! I literally learned how to shfll, wavedash/shine, moonwalk, j-cancel throws and all of that shit in less than a day.
@Orlhajoetoe Oh by the way, Can I see a video of you Shffling, waveshining, moonwalking, "and all that shit" please? I'd really like to see if you talk more than just shit.
Smash is not a fighting game. It's a platformer with fighting game elements. The goal is to stay on the stage and not get knocked off: Platformer. I don't hate on smash, I LIKE smash, but to say it's a fighting game is just false.
@IronyNinja The main thing you do in Smash is fight your opponents while controlling the stage, and, if they're on the stage, making good use of platforms. If anything, it's a fighter with platform game elements.
@IronyNinja As a matter of fact, Smash was developed primarily as a fighting game, they just added the platforms after that. The fighting mechanic was so malleable that they can turn the game into many things, including a sidescrolling platformer and a fighter party game, but at it's core, it's still a very technical fighting game.
@IronyNinja To say that the goal of Smash is to stay on the stage and knocked get off is to say the goal of Street Fighter is to block and not get killed. Each are respectively necessary to do well, but they aren't the goal of the game. The goal in both, like in any fighter, is to KILL YOUR OPPONENTS. It's a fighter with platforming elements, not the other way around. To say it's not a fighting game is just false.
@chau2k5 now tell me casual, which game has more exploits? o btw, those i listed, ya, thats only a handful of the hundreds in brawl, and most of the ones in brawl are alot more devastating and broken then anything in melee
think before you post, and learn wtf you are talking about before you make stupid comments kid.
Or, you know, all of the top and high tier characters along with a few of the mid tier characters. It's great to see that you don't know shit about Melee.
@chau2k5 Hmm, Fox, Falco, Sheik, Marth, Jigglypuff, Captain Falcon, Peach, Ganon, Doctor Mario, Mario, Ice Climbers, Luigi, and Samus are all commonly used characters in Melee. Once again, you know nothing about Melee.
@chau2k5 Who is stopping you from picking yoshi? At this point you are either hardcore trolling, or plain retarded. They gave you a list of common characters in response to you attacking the diversity of Melee. Don't try and turn this around and make it seem like they are restricting characters to that list. Stop being an insolent douche.
Also, something people don't realize is that Melee has no Buffering except for things like teching, so all of this has to be perfectly timed, and the timing changes when you hit some one because of the added hitlag. It's not easy, at all
coming from a former melee player......SF>>>Smash in terms of technicality/precision/fundamentals....for all the tech skills you showed in this video its still not as complex and in-depth as other fighting games in the FGC
this video is misleading, it makes it seem like the player is doing much less than he actually is.... for example... makes waveshine seem easy... people dont realize that not only do you have to press the buttons this fast but there is a specific timing that if you mess up it wont execute the technique.
2 things not captured in this video that i think are of utmost importance are spacing and reaction speed. shoulda shown amsah d-throw tech chasing fox or pp's falco wall of bairing armada (or something like that ... ). the care and frame by frame attention to detail and precision is what makes smash technically challenging imho.
I agree that Melee doesn't enough credit it deserves, but 1:35 and afterward is the main reason why Smash isn't respected around most hardcore fighting game fans. Arrogant shit like that, as well as not knowing a damn thing about other fighters.
Yeah me too. It's sad really. Smashers like the one who made this video are like North Korea if you ask me, trying to start up a shitstorm just to get attention for their country/game.
Good job for coming off as arrogant. Perhaps it's that attitude why people who play other fighting games don't like Smash, or the community to be exact?
I like technical Melee as much as the next guy, but when the people from the Smash community gloat to other players how technical Smash is just to "prove" to them that it's just as or more tech. as SF, GG, MB, TK, etc. it gets annoying.
This was a great video displaying skill, but that last part was just rude
@VGmastaRicky As a huge Melee fan, even I will tell that you don't know shit about Tekken if you think that. In Tekken, you could be quickly raped by just for no knowing how to move right (wavedashing in Tekken is WAY more technical and vital than it is in Melee). Also, despite what the haters think, combos (juggles) are not easy at all. They need alot of timing and can only be done by canceling (10-hit auto-strings are useless in high-level play because are easily punished and can't juggle).
@kngwa43 wayy more technical than wavedashing?! I think not. All Tekken is side stepping here and there, move-in, crouch dashing back and forth. I know how Tekken works. Of course no high level player uses the default 10-hitters, those are too predictable. But the juggling system is alot easier in Tekken than melee. You land a hit that pops you up the same way no matter how much damage your opponent has, and the juggles are gauranteed and inescapable unless there's a wall to interfere.
@VGmastaRicky Tekken's wavedashing is more technical and harder than Melee's. You have to QCF or HCF the joystick in a strict method (ramming it doesn't work), while in SSBM you just air-dodge to the floor. Doing to backwards is even harder (Korean BDC). Also, the effect and inputs is different for all characters in Tekken, while in SSBM its mostly the same. Your right about the combos being easier though (Melee might have the hardest combos of any game, due to DI) but SSBM is easier overall.
"I can't stand using joysticks in a fighting game."
And yet joysticks, or arcade sticks are the standard controllers for playing fighting games. Oh well, I guess it shouldn't matter what controller you use right?
Your thesis is good, but the point you use to prove it is not the most important. A lot of well-timed button inputs does contribute to making a technical game, but when you're arguing for Melee, you have to play up its highest selling point: that attacks vary depending on what part of the move you hit with and what direction your opponent DIs. Those intricate factors are something other fighters can't match or argue against.
@tolla02 he left his account logged on in his student union and it got deleted - he had the (respected) most technical video for waffles contest but its dead now :(
uhh was it really worth trying to start like a big ass argument about it??
i don't really give a shit what people think about melee
it's the only 10-year-old fighting game that gets 300 person nationals. it's obviously a good game, it's obviously deep and it obviously has a great community... preachy videos like this just ruin it for everybody imo
@DippNDots wasnt sure if it was the momentum but yea he was probably just DIing it to fall off, I generally didn't list DI for non-hits like when he first short hops, he does it and then DIs it forward, I just left that out
Grats, you have techskill. Now you can win tournaments >_>
Seriously, in Melee, techskill overshadows overall skill. That's why the Melee community is so garbage at the game.
Again, if any reject feels that Melee is technically advanced, then they're sadly mistaken. "Super complex" wavedashing inputs can literally be compared to the simple inputs of a fireball motion or DP, rofl. This game is NOT technically advanced whatsoever. Melee "pros" are delusion.
@Orlhajoetoe You have no idea what you're talking about. I play all kinds of fighters, and wavedashing in melee is significantly more complicated than hcf and DPs. It is more comparable to consistently wavedash back in MvC1. Besides, wavedashing is always added to something else, and in general is always added to something else. It's a constant stream of fast commands, and trying to string them together is like performing complex KoF combos (harder motions than standard capcom fighters) -
Oh yeah? I'd love to see these Melee "pros" do 1 frame links. They can't. They're too terrible to do said precise inputs. Those rejects need to train their hands instead of moving them around like they're on crack. That's the only thing that differs Melee to any other fighter -- it's just fast, that's all. You don't need to be precise with anything you do in Melee. And yes, I could easily execute zero to death combos that required tech shit on people all the time, rofl, not hard
@Orlhajoetoe 1 frame links are hard as fuck, yes, but they do them in Melee all the time. shine to back air combo? If you want it to combo, you basically need a command per frame. Then there's the multiple shines where you need to jump out of shines and cancel the jumping frames (you only have like 2) with another shine repeatedly. There's also that Mario Up B walljump that I do all the time where you have to cancel up B with a walljump in one frame for recovery, but that's relatively easy.
@Orlhajoetoe In other games, most 1 frame links just tend to be a single command, like just c. lp into MP. Most difficult things are like linking rapid fire chains to supers. In Melee, your commands are more complicated than most standard fighters for frame specific moves like shine to bair.
And waveshining or ken comboing your scrub friends does not count.
*sigh* Yup. It was obvious you were going to say that. Unfortunately, everyone is garbage at this game, including the "pros". So yeah, I had no choice but to do all this shit to bad players. Wasn't this discussion about tech skill? Outplaying your opponent has nothing to do with this matter, so get your head out of your ass and stop throwing out blatant insults to satisfy your pretentious ego.
@Orlhajoetoe Did you even read my other two posts or is youtube just highlighting one of them making it seem like I just retorted with an insult?
I mentioned 1 frame links in Melee, providing a successful rebuttal to your claim about Melee players being unable to perform them, but you nitpicked my post to address a single sentence. That is a logical fallacy. You must not be very good at argumentation.
@Orlhajoetoe Relatively. By your same reasoning, you must not be good at any game that requires 1 frame links (Melee included) because you imply that they're hard.
Arguing with dumbasses like you is always funny.
Anyway, it's not that I can't do these things, I just can't do them at the rate, speed, and with the flow of the pro players. Knowing my 0 to death combos really did nothing when I got my ass whooped by Axe, Tai, and Taj.
@yetwentyfive Yeah, that's what thisiswhattrollswhatyoutothink.jpg means.
And also fuck you sir. Thanks to years arguing with idiots on the internet, I've been effortlessly flying through my relevant classes in college with A+'s.
@Orlhajoetoe Ahaha you have been outsmarted in a logical conversation and you resort to childish retorts, how pathetic. Quit making a fool of yourself,
@Orlhajoetoe So you learned the basics, but that does not mean you can combo. That's like me saying that I learned how to chain combo, wavedash, and tick grab. Added to all the complex chains of motion to make a single effective combo, you have to take into account opponent specific attributes (moreso than other fighters), DI, damage specific values, and platforms.
@Orlhajoetoe It's almost funny that you think you can play technical melee just because you know the basic ATs. Melee is still too hard for me, yet when I pick up some of the new fighters (as long as they have a training mode), it's always easy to find 65% combos and all types of resets the opponent can't do shit unless they have combo breakers.
Melee pros aren't "delusion", this game is demanding. People that like to argue otherwise just tend to be pedants that aren't even good at fighters.
I really enjoyed this video. I think you should make something like this from one of the top players though, so people can't say "yadayadayada friendlies yadayada won't win in tourney yadayadayada that ain't falco yada" etc.
Like breakdown one of the matches from the Mew2king vs Dr. PP sets from that one recent tourney that was huge and awesome and stuff.
I love that combo and I love this game, but I hate the people who takes this kind of "talent" to make a video to make this kind of troubles. Yes, it was pretty cool until 1:35.
As a lifelong Melee player, yes, lots of communities talk trash about Melee--but that's because they're close-minded. Melee takes the standard tropes of the fighter genre and expands on them. Whether the end result is still considered a fighter is different on whom you ask, but IMO, Melee is a brilliant take on the fighter genre, that's fast-paced, fun, and most of all, deep. Whether by accident or design--probably the former considering Brawl--Melee turned out amazing, by fighter standards.
lol ppl complaining about this vid need to evaluate it for its purpose
its a RESPONSE to all the unfounded $h!+ other fighting game communities give the smash community on arguments just as shallow as the ones this video offers up. Im sure you could write a 20 page thesis on how melee is a legitimate fighting game, arguably one of the hardest there is, but this video doesnt come close to CLAIMING that it is such a thing. its merely (obviously!) here to show SOME of melee's technical depth.
@crystalnite I'm not going to get on the whole Smash being a fighter or not. But I would honestly like to know why is it such a big deal for alot of smash guys to have Smash reconised by the FGC as being a fighter? Seriously MK till MK9 was never viewed by the FGC "elite" as a competive fighter and none of us cared because we had our own scene, just like smash does so who cares if SRK doesn't think it's legit or not it's not like it's going to open more doors for you guys.
@crystalnite Also while I am here saying Melee is one of the hardest fighters there is really doesn't help your standings in the Fighting game community. It's one thing to say it's competitive, not going to argue that but it's not the hardest out there it's far from it. Not saying that there not depth to melee but it's Virtua fighter deep or hard, hell it's not even 3rd strike deep. But again I will admit theres more to it then jump, hit, smash, ring out.
@VexKasrani Techincally no, not really not saying it's shallow but it's not more difficult then most serious fighters, one can argue that it's even with some but that's about it. Anything more then that is just baist fan boy bull.
@jw821 You know, although these days I'm leaning towards traditional fighters being better than Smash, there really is no doubt that traditional fighting game players are the more arrogant ones by far.
I still don't understand what people dislike about Brawl. I grew up playing Melee, but I still prefer Melee. It's basically the same with smoother gameplay to me. /shrugs
@Calvervtutrp: The issue with Brawl is that it has some pretty ridiculous game breaking stuff in it. Random tripping for every character comes to mind. Safer recoveries with auto ledge-grabbing takes away a lot of the finesse that goes into edgeguarding.
But the worst thing is the physics engine. DI is so easy that everyone and their grandma can survive up to ridiculous percents. Everything is un-safe on block, so you the game becomes static and campy. It's just. . .not well designed.
@Jerogai Saying "there's ways around camping in Brawl" is like saying "there's ways around Falco's SHB." What you're saying is true, but it doesn't change the fact that SHB is hella annoying and difficult to deal with. I'm sure there's ways to get around camping in Brawl, but the fact you have to get "around" it implies that it's a formidable obstacle to begin with.
I like the breakdown of input etc. That's all the vid really had to be. The stuff at the end is unnecessary and snobby at other fighting game communities. Too bad :(
Damn that was quick, I blinked and then it was over o_o
JonArt93 1 month ago
Blazblue and Guilty Gear easily have higher skill caps than any other fighter I've ever played, with Street Fighter, specifically IV and AE, having the lowest.
Phaiyte 2 months ago
Whenever I see idiots make really stupid comments on youtube videos, all I have to do is click onto their profile page on youtube and see their favorite videos and page background, and then I realize that they are worthless human beings and not worth responding to.
Wisefish99 2 months ago
Does a game being 'technical' really matter this day and age? I would rather have an amazingly balanced roster than a higher barrier to entry.
eddosan 3 months ago
Far more technical than Brawl, to be sure, but I still prefer Brawl because it doesn't use hit-stun to hold my hand throughout consecutive attacks. I have to be on-guard and ready to dodge or stall in order to make hits land without being countered myself.
It's not a traditional combo system by any stretch, but it's still challenging.
smashbrolink 3 months ago
@smashbrolink
Main MK, run away, win.
GCLU 3 months ago
@GCLU Only a loser plays that way with MK.
Most serious MK players do it without spamming or cheap tactics.
smashbrolink 3 months ago
@smashbrolink
Most serious MK's don't play to win? Serious people not playing to win? Look up any recent video with M2K or any other top level MK. The only exception to this is Nairo who happens to be moderately offensive.
GCLU 3 months ago
@GCLU Re-read: Did I say they didn't play to win?
No.
I said they don't play using cheap-win tactics. The pros protect their rep by not resorting to cheap tactics. Mach spamming and infinite dimensional cape, in particular, are avoided during a tourney match by most MK players
But in any case, MK is an exception to the rule just due to how he is built with so little move lag. Outside of MK, the game is still challenging.
smashbrolink 3 months ago
@smashbrolink
the reason why IDC isn't used is because the technique is banned in tournaments. Mach spamming doesn't work as the majority of the cast outside of characters such as Ganondorf and Donkey Kong have very easy ways to punish Nado. I personally main Luigi and his d-smash and n-air both overpower nados so that does not work. I personally play brawl btw. I play brawl competitively due to the community but i still find melee the more balanced game and more competitive game.
GCLU 3 months ago
@GCLU Agree to disagree?
smashbrolink 3 months ago
@smashbrolink I think your idea of what's "cheap" and what's not is a tad skewed. MK isn't even overpowered. Mach Tornado is easily counterable by any character that isn't Ganon or DK. Any projectile will break it, along with a wide variety of moves with each character. There's no point to using dimensional cape infinitely at all as well as being banned in the fist place so they can't just run away and let the timer run out. This isn't even an opinion, it's proven time and time again by players.
Phaiyte 2 months ago
@Easmodx lol, don't worry. Dark is probably one of the most technical players in the world, he just doesn't make smart decisions and ends up being a lowly ranked player because, with the way he plays, he's flashier than he is effective.
rebelian7 3 months ago
Now try showing some tech skill with bowser.
gemininoiser 4 months ago
"oooooooooooooooooWWHHAAAHC"
IAMMIKE456 6 months ago
melee is the best game ever and forever to be created. there is an infinite amount of skill, no shit skill cap like 98% of all other games.
RealJayJohno 6 months ago 10
@thefirstwhiteknight It's true that Dark is an amateurish player, but he is extremely technical, more so than Mango's fox without a doubt. Anyway, the point of this video was to exhibit tech skill, not the depth of the game itself, for which a clip like this works fine.
rebelian7 6 months ago 4
@rebelian7 THAT´s amateurish? Holy...
Easmodx 3 months ago
I remember this game, I played it when I was 12.
When you're older you'll move onto big boy games such as Marvel vs Capcom 3 and Mortal Kombat.
Trollface
FxckCensors 6 months ago
@FxckCensors or... 'cuz you can't play technical like this?
Trollface
0MetaKill0 6 months ago
@0MetaKill0
Implying this game is relevant in 2011.
FxckCensors 6 months ago
@FxckCensors Mortal Kombat sucks though. as you get older you play suckier games? I'd rather not age then.
gemininoiser 4 months ago
@FxckCensors and I really don't see how Marvel vs. Capcom is anymore of a big boy game, than melee. I could see you moving on because it new, but not because it's more mature, because that doesn't even make sence.
gemininoiser 4 months ago
It's random that Dark is the star of this video since he's not even a top player. He's just some random dude from South America who is technical and competes with average players. Any guy and their mom could practice tech skill and style on a noob. Get some high level play on here and then make a video about how "technical" this game is.
thefirstwhiteknight 6 months ago
@thefirstwhiteknight i'm pretty sure even the best players in the world would say this video exhibits high level play
ajawasthi 6 months ago
@thefirstwhiteknight Check Mango vs Taj LF at Genesis 2. mango... maybe the best player is so technical... and his falco versus M2K also. go and check it out.
0MetaKill0 6 months ago
@0MetaKill0 Seen it. Mango is incredible. Everyone knows that. What's that gotta do with this video?
thefirstwhiteknight 6 months ago
@thefirstwhiteknight well... about this "Get some high level play on here and then make a video about how "technical" this game is. Or maybe i just translated that wrong.. (english isn't my native language)... oh well.. i think i just screw this... love you all <3 (?) xD
0MetaKill0 6 months ago
This is obviously a party game for noobs that anyone can play
Must be true because the street fighter players said so
AfroTwistPinkPie 7 months ago
@AfroTwistPinkPie I'm a Smash player and I tell you that Street fighter is a game that anyone can play. So this must be true too.
DarkSim64 7 months ago
LMFAO at the normal speed with the button techs = amazing. It'd be even more amazing if it was a LIST though LOL
danielvutran 7 months ago
This is why I suck at Melee...
Kzar5678 7 months ago
its OK, 105% of SSF players are virgins and will never get laid.
anon574 8 months ago
@anon574 As opposed to us Melee players, who be gettin' all da honeyz.
MsYouareWRONG 7 months ago 3
whoever made this game does not understand the laws of physic
yoyo1poe 8 months ago
@yoyo1poe Is there a game that it does?
TheLTScrew 8 months ago
it's not the most technical but its pretty technical.
nahhchill 8 months ago
@nahhchill Nobody said that.
Aluuuuh 8 months ago
@Aluuuuh i'm saying that. deal with it.
nahhchill 8 months ago
@nahhchill okay.jpg
Aluuuuh 8 months ago
@Aluuuuh >:)
nahhchill 8 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
And by the end of the day it's still a kids game.
Smash losers should stop trying to make their game what it's not.
Accelerator11 8 months ago
@Accelerator11 keep TROLLIN TROLLIN TROLLIN TROLLIN
NirvanaClockwork 8 months ago 4
@Accelerator11 At first I wanted to come up with some clever response to your comment but then I decided it would just be quicker to just call you incompetent.
Yoububehahaha 8 months ago
@Accelerator11 Compared too which game/s?
Cloakblade 8 months ago
Hmm... So apparently 42 Brawl players saw this video.
UrielTheAngelOfLight 8 months ago 3
SSBM is the greatest fighter video game in history. Otherwise, it wouldn't have a widely active community 10 years after its release, with no additions or expansions (like in the Street Fighter series and Starcraft).
dsx9069 9 months ago
everybody calm the fuck down, i got this.
rebaz 9 months ago
@rebaz well there you have it folks
rebaz2good
ShinyRalts 9 months ago
So uhhh...i actually play melee...and uhhh ive tried to learn how to play sf4 and uhhhh, all that stuff in this video, wavedashing l canceling junk etc...all those ppl saying its rly easy...well they're right, all that stuff should be muscle memory and easy. but uh, i played sf4 for like 2 days and i can see how it can be hard but it seems alot like just hardcore doing the same thing over and over again until you dont miss a link anymore or you get plinking down or the timing to FADC and yadada
yetwentyfive 9 months ago
@yetwentyfive the most part of melee is reading your opponent and manipulating their patterns...so if you compare that to SF4 which is more restricted in movement, id say melee is harder to predict what your opponent will do cause theres so many more variables and modes to approach especially during combos. but i can see where SF4 would be hard as well
yetwentyfive 9 months ago
exelente, les mostraste a esas tortugas Brawlers lo que es habilidad de verdad!
XeloLegend 9 months ago
Goddamn, I am so fucking glad I somehow found this video. I just hope that one day these Melee "pros" will get their fucking heads out of their asses and at least TRY other games before claiming that their precious Melee is insanely technical and hard to learn, execution wise. No, no, no and no! It's not! I've played this game and I can do all of this garbage effortlessly! I literally learned how to shfll, wavedash/shine, moonwalk, j-cancel throws and all of that shit in less than a day.
Orlhajoetoe 9 months ago
@Orlhajoetoe Oh by the way, Can I see a video of you Shffling, waveshining, moonwalking, "and all that shit" please? I'd really like to see if you talk more than just shit.
Nannally18 9 months ago
@Nannally18
Sure. Just give me a capture card and I will.
Orlhajoetoe 9 months ago
@Orlhajoetoe A camera will do.
Nannally18 9 months ago
Comment removed
L3phili3Tjosh 9 months ago
Smash is not a fighting game. It's a platformer with fighting game elements. The goal is to stay on the stage and not get knocked off: Platformer. I don't hate on smash, I LIKE smash, but to say it's a fighting game is just false.
IronyNinja 9 months ago
@IronyNinja The main thing you do in Smash is fight your opponents while controlling the stage, and, if they're on the stage, making good use of platforms. If anything, it's a fighter with platform game elements.
Anthon1996 9 months ago 11
@IronyNinja As a matter of fact, Smash was developed primarily as a fighting game, they just added the platforms after that. The fighting mechanic was so malleable that they can turn the game into many things, including a sidescrolling platformer and a fighter party game, but at it's core, it's still a very technical fighting game.
Zimx02 9 months ago
@IronyNinja To say that the goal of Smash is to stay on the stage and knocked get off is to say the goal of Street Fighter is to block and not get killed. Each are respectively necessary to do well, but they aren't the goal of the game. The goal in both, like in any fighter, is to KILL YOUR OPPONENTS. It's a fighter with platforming elements, not the other way around. To say it's not a fighting game is just false.
Gammasights 7 months ago
@Gammasights ...And not get knocked off. What the hell came over me when I typed that?
Gammasights 7 months ago
technical? you mean glitch exploits
chau2k5 9 months ago
@chau2k5 go look up brawl and snakes mortar slide to see a glitch exploit
go look up the ice climbers chaingrab in brawl to see a physics exploit
go look up the DACUS to see another glitch exploit in brawl
go look up zap jumping with lucas to see aanother glitch in brawl
go look up falcos chaingrab, laser locking, gattling "combo" in brawl to see 2physics exploits and a glitch
go look up king ddd's chaingrab
go look up metaknights infinate dimensional cape glitch.
Link500ACS 9 months ago
@chau2k5 now tell me casual, which game has more exploits? o btw, those i listed, ya, thats only a handful of the hundreds in brawl, and most of the ones in brawl are alot more devastating and broken then anything in melee
think before you post, and learn wtf you are talking about before you make stupid comments kid.
Link500ACS 9 months ago
@Link500ACS whoever said brawl didn't have glitches ಠ_ಠ
chau2k5 9 months ago
@chau2k5 LOL, there were no glitches exploited in the making of this video. You clearly don't know anything about Melee.
SSBMLA 9 months ago
@SSBMLA so melee only has one character worth picking. not very dynamic is it.
chau2k5 9 months ago
@chau2k5
Or, you know, all of the top and high tier characters along with a few of the mid tier characters. It's great to see that you don't know shit about Melee.
Gamedominator06 8 months ago
@Gamedominator06 who is top tier?
chau2k5 8 months ago
@chau2k5
Fox, Falco, Jigglypuff, Sheik in Top Tier.
Gamedominator06 8 months ago
@chau2k5 Hmm, Fox, Falco, Sheik, Marth, Jigglypuff, Captain Falcon, Peach, Ganon, Doctor Mario, Mario, Ice Climbers, Luigi, and Samus are all commonly used characters in Melee. Once again, you know nothing about Melee.
SSBMLA 8 months ago 2
@SSBMLA so i can't pick yoshi?
chau2k5 8 months ago
@chau2k5 Who is stopping you from picking yoshi? At this point you are either hardcore trolling, or plain retarded. They gave you a list of common characters in response to you attacking the diversity of Melee. Don't try and turn this around and make it seem like they are restricting characters to that list. Stop being an insolent douche.
Nannally18 8 months ago
@Nannally18 You got me, I was trolling. Even though I was being a dick, the other replyers were dicks too. You're not a dick, you're cool.
chau2k5 8 months ago
@chau2k5 If only people tried to be more civil we wouldn't have so much people hating on the game. By the way, do you play Melee?
Nannally18 8 months ago
@Nannally18 Unfortunately, I haven't played Melee in a long time. My circle of friends and I mostly play classic smash.
And I apologize for being a trolling dick to Melee and its fans.
chau2k5 8 months ago
it's so cute how smash kids think this is impressive, lmao
it's like watching a little tyke trying to be like daddy. Some day, little boy... some day
Taiganost 9 months ago
Mario Party takes more tech skill.
seedl69 9 months ago
Also, something people don't realize is that Melee has no Buffering except for things like teching, so all of this has to be perfectly timed, and the timing changes when you hit some one because of the added hitlag. It's not easy, at all
GodismyRock89 9 months ago
that's a lot of shit!
but still looks easier than a 1 frame link xD
Rotsch006 9 months ago
Still not as good as ST.
joejones 9 months ago
srsly though, that jump shine to platform wave dash was pretty unnecessary... lmao
blackchrisp 9 months ago
coming from a former melee player......SF>>>Smash in terms of technicality/precision/fundamentals....for all the tech skills you showed in this video its still not as complex and in-depth as other fighting games in the FGC
ian327 9 months ago
APM's over 900. No, not over 9000 'cause I'm a noob like that. c:
JerrafurOscar 9 months ago
this video is misleading, it makes it seem like the player is doing much less than he actually is.... for example... makes waveshine seem easy... people dont realize that not only do you have to press the buttons this fast but there is a specific timing that if you mess up it wont execute the technique.
BakaSoil 10 months ago
i would say wombo combo'd
shadradoo1 10 months ago
/watch?v=xwDHs6UXgR8&feature=feedlik
daveytwelve 1 year ago
@daveytwelve will answer if melee is technical, as well.
daveytwelve 1 year ago
1:17 AHAHAHAHAHAHA
metashinryu 1 year ago
I think I want to do this for dark's new combo video
Mofat 1 year ago 2
2 things not captured in this video that i think are of utmost importance are spacing and reaction speed. shoulda shown amsah d-throw tech chasing fox or pp's falco wall of bairing armada (or something like that ... ). the care and frame by frame attention to detail and precision is what makes smash technically challenging imho.
RRRRussia 1 year ago
actually, at :58, that wasn't an l-cancel. The b-air animation ended, and he just landed normally. Same thing at 1:08.
SSBMaster11 1 year ago
@SSBMaster11 True story.
ExquisitorVorbis 1 year ago
you should remove this now that you made a new/better one
Th3DekuNut 1 year ago
I agree that Melee doesn't enough credit it deserves, but 1:35 and afterward is the main reason why Smash isn't respected around most hardcore fighting game fans. Arrogant shit like that, as well as not knowing a damn thing about other fighters.
kngwa43 1 year ago
Just to be good enough to do one section of those commands consistently takes a lot of hard work.
r0flcopter 1 year ago
we do need to defend melee, but knocking other fighters is NOT the way to go about it
MrJ3ly 1 year ago 2
People still think they have to defend Melee??? I thought we put that kinda nonsense behind us.
Thancruz 1 year ago
@Thancruz
Yeah me too. It's sad really. Smashers like the one who made this video are like North Korea if you ask me, trying to start up a shitstorm just to get attention for their country/game.
chaos1778 1 year ago
I support the motion.
DynaDash 1 year ago
"How technical is your fighter?"
Good job for coming off as arrogant. Perhaps it's that attitude why people who play other fighting games don't like Smash, or the community to be exact?
I like technical Melee as much as the next guy, but when the people from the Smash community gloat to other players how technical Smash is just to "prove" to them that it's just as or more tech. as SF, GG, MB, TK, etc. it gets annoying.
This was a great video displaying skill, but that last part was just rude
chaos1778 1 year ago
That's why Tekken is wayy easier than melee.
VGmastaRicky 1 year ago
@VGmastaRicky As a huge Melee fan, even I will tell that you don't know shit about Tekken if you think that. In Tekken, you could be quickly raped by just for no knowing how to move right (wavedashing in Tekken is WAY more technical and vital than it is in Melee). Also, despite what the haters think, combos (juggles) are not easy at all. They need alot of timing and can only be done by canceling (10-hit auto-strings are useless in high-level play because are easily punished and can't juggle).
kngwa43 1 year ago
@kngwa43 wayy more technical than wavedashing?! I think not. All Tekken is side stepping here and there, move-in, crouch dashing back and forth. I know how Tekken works. Of course no high level player uses the default 10-hitters, those are too predictable. But the juggling system is alot easier in Tekken than melee. You land a hit that pops you up the same way no matter how much damage your opponent has, and the juggles are gauranteed and inescapable unless there's a wall to interfere.
VGmastaRicky 1 year ago
@VGmastaRicky Tekken's wavedashing is more technical and harder than Melee's. You have to QCF or HCF the joystick in a strict method (ramming it doesn't work), while in SSBM you just air-dodge to the floor. Doing to backwards is even harder (Korean BDC). Also, the effect and inputs is different for all characters in Tekken, while in SSBM its mostly the same. Your right about the combos being easier though (Melee might have the hardest combos of any game, due to DI) but SSBM is easier overall.
kngwa43 1 year ago
@kngwa43 Ok fine, I'll retract most of my previous statements assuming that you have to use the joysticks in Tekken instead of a remote controller.
I can't stand using joysticks in a fighting game.
VGmastaRicky 1 year ago
@VGmastaRicky
"I can't stand using joysticks in a fighting game."
And yet joysticks, or arcade sticks are the standard controllers for playing fighting games. Oh well, I guess it shouldn't matter what controller you use right?
chaos1778 1 year ago 2
Edit this
zidex 1 year ago
Your thesis is good, but the point you use to prove it is not the most important. A lot of well-timed button inputs does contribute to making a technical game, but when you're arguing for Melee, you have to play up its highest selling point: that attacks vary depending on what part of the move you hit with and what direction your opponent DIs. Those intricate factors are something other fighters can't match or argue against.
Slashtap3 1 year ago
Dark(chile xD) is the most technical player than i ever seen...
tolla02 1 year ago
@tolla02 deathgazer is about 10 times more technical
MrJ3ly 1 year ago
@MrJ3ly video plis =)
tolla02 1 year ago
@tolla02 he left his account logged on in his student union and it got deleted - he had the (respected) most technical video for waffles contest but its dead now :(
MrJ3ly 1 year ago
@MrJ3ly oh...sorry
tolla02 1 year ago
@tolla02 Don't listen to J3ly, he's a scrub...trust me I know him personally lol.
The most technical thing ever is if you type in youtube 'Silent Wolf Lovage Revolution' and then you'll see something technical.....
aaronhthomas 1 year ago
uhh was it really worth trying to start like a big ass argument about it??
i don't really give a shit what people think about melee
it's the only 10-year-old fighting game that gets 300 person nationals. it's obviously a good game, it's obviously deep and it obviously has a great community... preachy videos like this just ruin it for everybody imo
Oosanbashi 1 year ago
Point could've been well made without the angst.
omeletta 1 year ago
TEKKEN.
I do Play melee. I love it!
AzumaRikimaru 1 year ago
During the breakdown, you missed the running off the stage between the jab and shine. not very difficult but still adds to the overall execution
DippNDots 1 year ago 4
@DippNDots wasnt sure if it was the momentum but yea he was probably just DIing it to fall off, I generally didn't list DI for non-hits like when he first short hops, he does it and then DIs it forward, I just left that out
Acryte 1 year ago
@Acryte
Grats, you have techskill. Now you can win tournaments >_>
Seriously, in Melee, techskill overshadows overall skill. That's why the Melee community is so garbage at the game.
Again, if any reject feels that Melee is technically advanced, then they're sadly mistaken. "Super complex" wavedashing inputs can literally be compared to the simple inputs of a fireball motion or DP, rofl. This game is NOT technically advanced whatsoever. Melee "pros" are delusion.
Orlhajoetoe 9 months ago
@Orlhajoetoe You have no idea what you're talking about. I play all kinds of fighters, and wavedashing in melee is significantly more complicated than hcf and DPs. It is more comparable to consistently wavedash back in MvC1. Besides, wavedashing is always added to something else, and in general is always added to something else. It's a constant stream of fast commands, and trying to string them together is like performing complex KoF combos (harder motions than standard capcom fighters) -
Zimx02 9 months ago
@Zimx02
Oh yeah? I'd love to see these Melee "pros" do 1 frame links. They can't. They're too terrible to do said precise inputs. Those rejects need to train their hands instead of moving them around like they're on crack. That's the only thing that differs Melee to any other fighter -- it's just fast, that's all. You don't need to be precise with anything you do in Melee. And yes, I could easily execute zero to death combos that required tech shit on people all the time, rofl, not hard
Orlhajoetoe 9 months ago
@Orlhajoetoe 1 frame links are hard as fuck, yes, but they do them in Melee all the time. shine to back air combo? If you want it to combo, you basically need a command per frame. Then there's the multiple shines where you need to jump out of shines and cancel the jumping frames (you only have like 2) with another shine repeatedly. There's also that Mario Up B walljump that I do all the time where you have to cancel up B with a walljump in one frame for recovery, but that's relatively easy.
Zimx02 9 months ago
@Orlhajoetoe In other games, most 1 frame links just tend to be a single command, like just c. lp into MP. Most difficult things are like linking rapid fire chains to supers. In Melee, your commands are more complicated than most standard fighters for frame specific moves like shine to bair.
And waveshining or ken comboing your scrub friends does not count.
Zimx02 9 months ago
@Zimx02
*sigh* Yup. It was obvious you were going to say that. Unfortunately, everyone is garbage at this game, including the "pros". So yeah, I had no choice but to do all this shit to bad players. Wasn't this discussion about tech skill? Outplaying your opponent has nothing to do with this matter, so get your head out of your ass and stop throwing out blatant insults to satisfy your pretentious ego.
PS: Melee sucks and it takes no skill.
PSS: You are a Melee fanboy, enough said.
Orlhajoetoe 9 months ago
@Orlhajoetoe Did you even read my other two posts or is youtube just highlighting one of them making it seem like I just retorted with an insult?
I mentioned 1 frame links in Melee, providing a successful rebuttal to your claim about Melee players being unable to perform them, but you nitpicked my post to address a single sentence. That is a logical fallacy. You must not be very good at argumentation.
Zimx02 9 months ago
@Zimx02
And you must not be very good at this game considering you actually think that it's hard.
Orlhajoetoe 9 months ago
@Orlhajoetoe Relatively. By your same reasoning, you must not be good at any game that requires 1 frame links (Melee included) because you imply that they're hard.
Arguing with dumbasses like you is always funny.
Anyway, it's not that I can't do these things, I just can't do them at the rate, speed, and with the flow of the pro players. Knowing my 0 to death combos really did nothing when I got my ass whooped by Axe, Tai, and Taj.
Zimx02 9 months ago
@Zimx02
Noooo, stop! You are a fanyboy and you are getting trolled! NooooooooOOOOOooo! lololololololololololol. Melee doesn't have 1 frame links, rofl.
Orlhajoetoe 9 months ago
@Orlhajoetoe They have the equivalent though.
also, thisiswhattrollswhatyoutothink.jpg
God you're stupid.
Zimx02 9 months ago
@Zimx02 i think people go into troll mode when they've lost the internet war...
just my two cents
and arguing on the internet is like the special olympics. even if you win, you're still retarded
yetwentyfive 9 months ago
@yetwentyfive Yeah, that's what thisiswhattrollswhatyoutothink.jpg means.
And also fuck you sir. Thanks to years arguing with idiots on the internet, I've been effortlessly flying through my relevant classes in college with A+'s.
Zimx02 9 months ago
@Orlhajoetoe Ahaha you have been outsmarted in a logical conversation and you resort to childish retorts, how pathetic. Quit making a fool of yourself,
Nannally18 9 months ago
@Orlhajoetoe So you learned the basics, but that does not mean you can combo. That's like me saying that I learned how to chain combo, wavedash, and tick grab. Added to all the complex chains of motion to make a single effective combo, you have to take into account opponent specific attributes (moreso than other fighters), DI, damage specific values, and platforms.
Zimx02 9 months ago
@Orlhajoetoe It's almost funny that you think you can play technical melee just because you know the basic ATs. Melee is still too hard for me, yet when I pick up some of the new fighters (as long as they have a training mode), it's always easy to find 65% combos and all types of resets the opponent can't do shit unless they have combo breakers.
Melee pros aren't "delusion", this game is demanding. People that like to argue otherwise just tend to be pedants that aren't even good at fighters.
Zimx02 9 months ago
@jw821 I rest my case.
RadicallyDreaming 1 year ago 3
melee is a platformer
jeebazz 1 year ago
@jeebazz Herp
DevantOne 1 year ago
I really enjoyed this video. I think you should make something like this from one of the top players though, so people can't say "yadayadayada friendlies yadayada won't win in tourney yadayadayada that ain't falco yada" etc.
Like breakdown one of the matches from the Mew2king vs Dr. PP sets from that one recent tourney that was huge and awesome and stuff.
michael16862 1 year ago
autism awareness
MugiwaraNoSlime 1 year ago
I don't know of any good Smash players who spend time worrying of what other communities think of them...so why do it for them?
AeonsOfFrost 1 year ago
I love that combo and I love this game, but I hate the people who takes this kind of "talent" to make a video to make this kind of troubles. Yes, it was pretty cool until 1:35.
CtMxum 1 year ago
i see 20 people dont have balls.
SkyShadowX 1 year ago
As a lifelong Melee player, yes, lots of communities talk trash about Melee--but that's because they're close-minded. Melee takes the standard tropes of the fighter genre and expands on them. Whether the end result is still considered a fighter is different on whom you ask, but IMO, Melee is a brilliant take on the fighter genre, that's fast-paced, fun, and most of all, deep. Whether by accident or design--probably the former considering Brawl--Melee turned out amazing, by fighter standards.
maelstrom218 1 year ago
lol ppl complaining about this vid need to evaluate it for its purpose
its a RESPONSE to all the unfounded $h!+ other fighting game communities give the smash community on arguments just as shallow as the ones this video offers up. Im sure you could write a 20 page thesis on how melee is a legitimate fighting game, arguably one of the hardest there is, but this video doesnt come close to CLAIMING that it is such a thing. its merely (obviously!) here to show SOME of melee's technical depth.
crystalnite 1 year ago 6
@crystalnite I'm not going to get on the whole Smash being a fighter or not. But I would honestly like to know why is it such a big deal for alot of smash guys to have Smash reconised by the FGC as being a fighter? Seriously MK till MK9 was never viewed by the FGC "elite" as a competive fighter and none of us cared because we had our own scene, just like smash does so who cares if SRK doesn't think it's legit or not it's not like it's going to open more doors for you guys.
Evilmonkey66699 9 months ago
@crystalnite Also while I am here saying Melee is one of the hardest fighters there is really doesn't help your standings in the Fighting game community. It's one thing to say it's competitive, not going to argue that but it's not the hardest out there it's far from it. Not saying that there not depth to melee but it's Virtua fighter deep or hard, hell it's not even 3rd strike deep. But again I will admit theres more to it then jump, hit, smash, ring out.
Evilmonkey66699 9 months ago
@Evilmonkey66699 Technical wise, it's more difficult then most fighters.
VexKasrani 9 months ago
@VexKasrani Techincally no, not really not saying it's shallow but it's not more difficult then most serious fighters, one can argue that it's even with some but that's about it. Anything more then that is just baist fan boy bull.
Evilmonkey66699 9 months ago
@jw821 You know, although these days I'm leaning towards traditional fighters being better than Smash, there really is no doubt that traditional fighting game players are the more arrogant ones by far.
RadicallyDreaming 1 year ago
I still don't understand what people dislike about Brawl. I grew up playing Melee, but I still prefer Melee. It's basically the same with smoother gameplay to me. /shrugs
Calvervtutrp 1 year ago
@Calvervtutrp: The issue with Brawl is that it has some pretty ridiculous game breaking stuff in it. Random tripping for every character comes to mind. Safer recoveries with auto ledge-grabbing takes away a lot of the finesse that goes into edgeguarding.
But the worst thing is the physics engine. DI is so easy that everyone and their grandma can survive up to ridiculous percents. Everything is un-safe on block, so you the game becomes static and campy. It's just. . .not well designed.
maelstrom218 1 year ago
@maelstrom218 I do hate camping... It's just preferences I suppose. I love them both. They're just different games.
Calvervtutrp 1 year ago
@maelstrom218
there are ways around camping in brawl
Jerogai 1 year ago
@Jerogai Saying "there's ways around camping in Brawl" is like saying "there's ways around Falco's SHB." What you're saying is true, but it doesn't change the fact that SHB is hella annoying and difficult to deal with. I'm sure there's ways to get around camping in Brawl, but the fact you have to get "around" it implies that it's a formidable obstacle to begin with.
maelstrom218 1 year ago
lol you put l cancel when he only jumped
daveparkk 1 year ago
1:35 onward is why everyone thinks smush-heads are a bunch of stupid babbies with no knowledge of any real fighting games.
ninjachipzanuff 1 year ago
playing Ninja Gaiden at a high level is technical. it's still not a fighting game.
ninjachipzanuff 1 year ago
xuxa ke es famoso el pancho XD
tolla02 1 year ago
1:35 was such a disgrace man -___-
Why do you care what other comms think of melee?
astrojunkey 1 year ago
@astrojunkey because that's what got Melee dropped from MLG
SSBMLA 1 year ago 2
BRAWLS BLOWS GO MELEE
Vincentquebecois 1 year ago
Guilty Gear = more technical than Melee
Soul Caliber 3 = has DI.
Sup?
TheCape 1 year ago
this is why brawl sucks
PocketAces1796 1 year ago
I like the breakdown of input etc. That's all the vid really had to be. The stuff at the end is unnecessary and snobby at other fighting game communities. Too bad :(
Rejuker 1 year ago
The input is wrong. He dashed / walked after the jab to cancel it.
PsychoDoughBoy88 1 year ago