Dominico Scarlatti - Sonate K.141 en Ré Mineur

[ciprianasmarandescu]

GREAT !!!!!!

[domelandia]

Feo. Ugly.

[askim925]

Pierre Hantai, the rockstar of harpsichord.

[MrALCOTTS]

I LOVE SCARLATTI

[morindhe]

Could someone explain to me what another poster said about Scott Ross's version being "pure"? Is it the tuning of his instrument?

And WHOA, listen to those dissonant chords! Why have I never heard them like this ever in my life?

[Nikolausius]

By the way, whats the Kirkpatrick number???

[Trinitrotolaissance]

@Nikolausius title.

[person3enpassant]

@Nikolausius Ralph (I think was his Christian name) Kirkpatrick was a harpsichordist, & among a few who tried their hands at putting Domenico Scarlatti's sonatas - (all 555 of them, not just "The Queen's Book") - into chronological order around 1953, a bit like Kochel did with Mozart I guess only not so many works! Others include Alessandro Longo - "L" numbers, which you'll see too - & a guy called Pestelli in the late 1960's, tho' I've yet to see a "P" number! The K-s are most popular.

[person3enpassant]

@Nikolausius BTW I said "chronological" order - not necessarily that, but musicological perhaps?

[Nikolausius]

the repetition is superhuman.... unbelievable, such technical abilities... great, just great!!!!!!

[MonsieurDecent]

MAN, I LOVE this piece on harpsicord! This is truly earth-shattering... ... ...

[Braybaroque]

Impressive display indeed: among the fastest performances on record. However, at this speed, some minute details in the score are lost. Hantaï plays them all indeed, but at that speed they are not perceived. I am sure this piece was conceived to be played significantly slower.

[Alexjr1543]

I like most of Scarlatti's works, but in my opinion, if the dissonant chords weren't just bad playing, I think they sound out of place for a baroque composition.

[Trinitrotolaissance]

@Alexjr1543 I think that was Scarlattis whole goal in this piece! To be extreme and to kick hard against the established ideas/rules of music of that time.

[Alexjr1543]

@Trinitrotolaissance I understand what you mean. Actually, the more I listen to it, the more I enjoy it.

[Renshen1957]

@Alexjr1543 I went to the WIMA music archive, and some of those dissonant chords aren't in the original manuscripts. Artistic license or historical practice.

[Hamstray]

@Renshen1957 you mean the tone deaf John Sankey transcriptions? (haven't checked these, but his Byrd is riddled with dissonances). Do you have scans of the original manuscripts?

[Renshen1957]

@Hamstray I wouldn't brand Sankey's work a transcription.

To the contrary, Sankey's Scarlatti edition strictly follows Parma manuscript in the few examples of facsimile that I possess, and true to note stem direction of the originals that Kirkpatrick's 60 Sonatas did not exactly follow.

Among Longo's alterations, his edition omits most of the hand assignments explicitly written in the original Sonata. The Petrucci Music Library has Longo's complete catalog at imslp dot org.

[Hamstray]

@Renshen1957 ie scarlattis K1 contains the following thirds (inter alia):

G#-C, C-E, and E-G# (Ab instead of G# if tuned to Dm),

this can mean one of 3 things:

1. the transcription is incorrect

2. weird tuning (haven't checked if tuning the octaves differently from one another would work or mid piece retuning is required)

3. scarlattis music is simply not "pure" and purists who shout "the scott ross version is better!" are hypocrites and can just go suck it.

and i believe you just refuted no 1.

[Renshen1957]

@Hamstray The scores by J. Sankey (the black notes on white paper) are true to the manuscript copies in Parma (and Venice for that matter). These are neither arrangements nor transcriptions, just published urtext scores. I'm not discussing his midi files.

If tuning is an issue, any top of the line yahama clavinola has the different temperements settings.(Pythagorean, Mean Tone, Werkmeister and Kirnberger, Equal). Play the intervals in each, might surprise you.

[Renshen1957]

@Hamstray cont'd John Sankey knew Thurston Dart and was well acquainted with Elizabethan Music. The harmonic false relations (F/F#) found in the music is typical of virginal music (independent horizontal melodies). If you grew up piano editions of Byrd and ears blunted by Equal Temperament, these dissonances and authentic quarter mean tone tuning would sound "incorrect." 

Likewise, vocal music of the time contains F natural against F#. I've sung the music; I play the harpsichord.

[Hamstray]

@Renshen1957

who's talking about false relations? what i mean is dissonant major thirds (1 chromatic + 3 diatonic) semitones (as opposed to perfect major thirds 2c + 2d). those not only sound 'incorrect', they are measurably dissonant.

[Renshen1957]

@Hamstray 1/4-comma meantone has just intonated thirds and slightly flatted fifths; of the diatonic and chromatic semitones, the diatonic semitones are larger. In Scarlatti's K1, the G# would be tuned to G# as the leading tone of the dominant key. (G# to C an altered fourth not enharmonic third), interval C to E occurs briefly in measures 17, 19, 20 (16th note duration), and internal E to G# occurs twice measure 22 at a tenth plus one octave distance (also 16th duration) & as melodic intervals

[Hamstray]

@Renshen1957 this does not change the fact that diminished fourths as occurring at the start of measures 21 and 22 of K1 are dissonant. Well ok, this might be intentional but i had to be skeptical. You mentioned not wanting to discuss Sankeys midis (of which his Byrd transcriptions are in the form of) but i simply do not trust proofreading by sight alone.

[Renshen1957]

@Hamstray K1-K30 published in 1738 as the Essercizi ("Exercises") under Scarlatti's direction, so the fourths are without question authentic Many of his Sonatas broke "all the rules." “My Essercizi are not designed to display any profound learning, but are rather an ingenious Jesting with Art.” – Domenico Scarlatti.

There are no autograph copies of these works, but the different manuscript collections sufficient duplicate one another to correct any occasional copyist error.

[poegmahoen]

@Alexjr1543 List to Rebel's Cahos from Les Élémens; this is a baroque ornament called "acciaccatura" that is widely underused.

[person3enpassant]

@Alexjr1543 Perhaops in many Baroque compositions, yes, but Scarlatti's use of dissonance was quite remarkable. Also his music by this stage was deeply influenced by flamenco & other Spanish gypsy dance idioms. Check out K 12 for instance; it wouldn't work otherwise! But this is all a matter of personal taste really. :)

[CardinalPugwash]

@Alexjr1543 The dissonant chords are right there in black and white on the page.

[CardinalPugwash]

@CardinalPugwash MInd you, this geezer plays it a lot faster than I can or would if I could.

[Bambam78]

This is INCREDIBLY AMAZING! What FIRE! WHAT PASSION! WOW I am 100% blown away!

[hansinluck]

I love this type of harpsichord. (the way its played) You can really get more feeling out of it. Can you recommend others like this that you have? If you have time. Thanks so much for all these uploads.

[Trinitrotolaissance]

Michele Benuzzi, absolute must. He's in my videos "Clash of The Titans" and "Laughing in the face of Insanity ". Absolute Scarlatti connoisseur just like Enrico Baiano (I have all his Scarlatti in a playlist). Then there's Ottavio Dantone, Sergio Vartolo and so on. If you want to hear Scarlatti, those are your names. The instrument that Benuzzi used can in no way be described in words, just listen to it. Enjoy :-)