Alabama's Mythical 12 National Championships - A Rebuttal

[mulehammer1]

And your last minute stats at the end are also wrong hahahahahaha. Dude your realling tryin to show those stats hahahahahaha. WOW WAYYYYYYY WRONG were did you start and end your count from ummmmm 1950 to 1980 hahahaha. Try looking at the start of each school to present day.

[mulehammer1]

Lmao just to prove you wrong there buddy ummmm you said the UPI didnt come out till 50's yet you said that teams claimed the national title because of it in 30's and 40's WOW did they go to the future and come back? You jammers crack me up

[mcb2597]

bama has the most nat. championships out of ANY college team , period.

[Chizikiszebest]

Bammers are mindless dolts. There are subhuman compared to the us Auburn fans.

[ndfan1107]

alabama cant claim 1973, they lost to notre dame in the bowl game, so that should eliminate their shot at it, and in 66 notre dame tied the number two team in the country and also played against, i believe it was 5 top 10 teams, while bama defeated only one top 25 team in the whole year

[Bamruff62]

@ndfan1107 - I agree. The #1 team has to loose in order for them to loose their #1 ranking. So who did Alabama and Mich. St. loose to in 1966? Both Bama and MSU were National Champions coming off a championship year and both were ranked #1 before ND in 1966. It's first and only time in AP-UPI history where you had 2 championship teams ranked #1 and they lost their #1 ranking without loosing a game. ND did beat 3 top 10 teams, but #10 OU finished year unranked and #10 USC finished #18.

[12106445]

@ndfan1107 Alabama was 2 time co-champions in '64 and '65 and went untied as well as undefeated in '66 so therefore should have been awarded the 1966 National Championship.

[tigerbad123]

UGA does not claim the 1946 title and in 1942 six major polls said they were the champions.Tennessee had every right to claim the 1938 NC Title eight major polls stated them as the National Champions, the AP stated TCU as the Champion but TCU only had 4 polls to Tenn. 8 so tenn. has the right to claim that title.

Auburn 2010 National Champions!!

[pb2251]

@tigerbad123 So let me get this straight, Tennessee and Georgia can claim NCs based on the selections of Houlgate, Dunkel, and WIlliamson but Bama can't? Tennessee can claim '38 because they were chosen by 8 major selectors, but the fact that 8 major selectors chose Bama in '25 for example means nothing. According to you, the fact the AP didn't choose Tennessee or Georgia is just as irrelevant as the AP choosing UA in years you"dismiss". Gotta love barner logic!

[tigerbad123]

@pb2251 gotta love bammer dumbasses i didnt say anything about bama's titles all i said was that these two teams could calim these rightfully read my comment did i say anything about alabama's titles .....NO.

Auburn Tigers 2010 National Champions!!

[12106445]

@pb2251 It doesn't matter what Alabama does people are going to hate Alabama no matter what the Tide does. When Alabama beat Miami for the '92 Championship there were some that still didn't believe Alabama was the National Champions. Just 2 years ago when Bama clearly beat Texas there were those that said Alabama wasn't BCS Champions because Colt McCoy got hurt. If there is ever a playoff and Bama wins it some will still say they're not the Champions.

[ROLLTIDEROLL4LIFE]

Why don't you cryin bastards just take it to court, FUCKING DUMBASSES!

The only national championship that matters is the one we're gonna win next year!

ROLL TIDE!!!

[pb2251]

Greymoose, if you think the barner method for debunking Bama's NCs is legit, you should know that USC loses 5 by their system. 1932- USC claims it from Houlgate, Dunkel, Boand, and Williamson. 1939- USC finishes 3rd in AP, Dickinson ALONE selectsUSC as NC. USC didn't claim this title until 2004. 1974- 11-0 Oklahoma wins the AP, 10-1-1 USC wins UPI. Remember, with Barn logic, OK had the better record. In addition, teams in 1928 and 2003 had better records. Sucks doesn't it?

[aibohphobia15]

so counting '61, '64, '65, '78, '79, '92, '09, and 1928 in which Alabama was clearly a national champion even though there is no proof (I just let Alabama have it for they were clearly the best.) there is a total of 8 national championships.

[aibohphobia15]

1966 may have had a tied notre dame team above Alabama but the team they tied was Michigan St. who was also above Alabama in the Ap poll. 1973 The AP poll put notre dame as the national champions who defeated Alabama. I have no idea why Alabama claims 1973. 1978,1979, and 1992 are all alabama championships.

[Bamruff62]

@aibohphobia15 - As a Bama fan I don't care that much about 1966. I also will give leeway to the logical sequence of the polls in 1966. ND was #1 and they Tied #2 Mich. St. Both ranked ahead of #3 Bama. But how did Notre Dame get to be #1? There were 2 #1 teams ranked ahead of ND that did not loose. Bama was Preseason #1. Who did they loose to? Mich St was #1 before ND. No one beat them. O.K. I agree, you have to beat the #1 team to get the #1 spot. Who beat Bama and MSU?

[aibohphobia15]

The 1936 championship you have no right to claim. Lsu had a better record than Alabama and won the SEC. Even if Minnesota didn’t deserve it, LSU was still a better team. 1945 you claim over Army but even though they won fewer games, they scored more points in those games (This doesn’t make them champions just a fact). Army was selected by the AP poll. 1961 is an alabama national championship and don't let anyone tell you it isn't. Same for 1964 and 1965.

[aibohphobia15]

In 1936, the AP poll came along which has become the way to determine champions, for it was one of the few honest newspapers of it's earlier days. Eventually, other respectable polls came into existence but as earlier stated, there were so many different polls that any team with an undefeated season had some poll select them.

[aibohphobia15]

the top 5 teams may all be in the west which means the 6th ranked eastern team would be chosen to play in the rose bowl. The rose bowl isn't a good way of determining a champion. This shows that without a means of determining a national champion, than can be none. Anyone with an undefeated season could claim a national championship.

[aibohphobia15]

alabama has 8. before 1936 there was no way to decide national champions. well there goes 4 championships. Saying the Rose Bowl was special or if you won you were "kings of the universe" is a bunch of b.s.The rose bowl was really the competition between the west and the east. The best team in the east and the best team were chosen and played in the Rose Bowl. The only problem with saying it's a national champion is this:

[aibohphobia15]

Here's what I told someone else. Sorry it's so long.

[aibohphobia15]

Here's what i told someone else. so it's so dang long.

[greymoose1000]

@JakeDaQB University of Alabama at Tuscaloser. UAB is your main campus with UAH and UAT supplementing the Alabammer system of colleges by taking on those who could not get into a typical school since their ACT scores were so low.

[thrillamne]

8 and countig not 13

[auburntigerfan91]

@CalebMTurberville

Alabama count one's they shouldn't. I have no problem if Alabama counts 1966 but they shouldn't count 1941 anymore if they do that. They can't have it both ways. All of Auburn's claims, except 1983, are all undefeated seasons. It's not like we'd be claiming a 2 loss team as a NC year (1941 Alabama).

[CalebMTurberville]

The video poster should be notified that the 1980 Sugar Bowl win (1979 season) was actually between #2 ranked, 11-0 Alabama against #6 ranked, 10-1 Arkansas. Bama was ranked #1 in the Coaches' Poll going into the game, but Ohio State was ranked #1 in the AP Poll going into the Rose Bowl, where they were defeated by the #3 ranked, 10-0-1 USC Trojans.

[CalebMTurberville]

@CalebMTurbervilleIt all works out the same, anyway. Alabama was declared the consensus national champions by the AP Poll, UPI Coaches' Poll, Football Writers, and the National Football Foundation. I just thought I would clear it up.

[SportsFan0520]

@Coochie2u, You pacaderms might have embarrassed us back in the 30's and 50's, but the fact of the matter is us "barners" completely EMBARRASSED the Crimson Turds in Bryant-Denny Stadium. Hell, looks like your defense choked in the second half, and "Fast & Furious" along with the rest of the Alabama offense only out up 3 in the second half against our mighty defense *sarcasm*. Oh and tell Saban to send me a post-card from Dallas with a picture of the new stadium there, next season.

[ManikMan3]

How come you never mention the fact that pretty much all the systems that chose Bama as champs for those 5 claimed seasons are regarded now as complete jokes and have absolutely no credibility and have been proven incapable of selecting the National Champions. And by the way, you spelled Auburn wrong.

[TheSouthernAmerican]

Who gives a rats a##....lets play football.

[coochie2u]

ENOUGH ARGUING ABOUT ALABAMA'S MULTIPLE NC's!!! I'll just take the eight I actually "WITNESSED" and "CELEBRATED" in my life-time. Ok? That should be good enough for anybody and will still completely embarrass your average Barner.

[greymoose1000]

@coochie2u 1978 Southern Cal had more victories at 12-1 tha UAT 11-1 and defeated UAT at Legion Field that year by a score of 24-14. I was there. Once again, sometime the facts are hard to digest but why would I expect a Crimson Turd follower to be anything other than delusional. Go SC and PAC-10.

[Bamruff62]

@greymoose1000 I remember the game as well. Have it taped on VHS tape. (tells you how long ago i saw it.) No one denies USC won. Bama played a sloppy game and deserved to loose. But the game doesn't get to decide a Nat. Title. The extra game USC played that year was against Hawaii. Come on, that game was a vacation for USC. Hawaii was a average team in the WAC.

The AP and Virtually everyone of those minor polls went with Bama. The UPI went with USC. It was closest vote in UPI history. Still is.

[greymoose1000]

@Bamruff62 ONe major problem I had with UAT winning that year was that everyone likes to talk about Penn State being the number one team. They always played a weak schedule and had the BCS been in place their computer ranking would have been awful due to that weak schedule. Granted, I liked the Bear and Paterno, but the real NC had to be the Trojans. Overall our schedule and team was the strongest. You shouldn't talk about Hawaii when you played the likes of Vanderbilt.

[Bamruff62]

@greymoose1000 - You mentioned how USC played 1 extra game that year. I was pointing out that extra game was against Hawaii. USC had to get special permission to play that game. Bama played the allotted 11 game sched.

Bama beat 4 top 11 teams at the time of play, including the #1 team in what many viewed as the Championship game. PSU was #1. Please don't add hypothetical speculative factors that didn't exist. There was no BCS. Many pundits/analyst felt Bama played the tougher schedule.

[greymoose1000]

@Bamruff62 How could they when SC handed it to them at Legion Field in head-to-head competition?

[Bamruff62]

@greymoose1000 - I'm not sure what you mean? How could Bama what? Beat 4 top 11 teams? #8 Neb, #11 Missouri, #10 LSU and #1 Penn St. If finishing #2 in all the polls and then go on to beat #1 team in the champioship game doesn't count, then Hell, give the 1978 NT to Oklahoma. Every OU fan will tell you that OU played the toughest schedule.

[greymoose1000]

@Bamruff62 USC is the one and only legitimate National Champion from 1978. Fact, SC ran all over the UAT Crimson Turds at Legion Field that year and then UAT plays a shitty Penn State team in the Sugar Bowl. SC forever!!!! UAT has four recognized titles and they are as follows: 1961, 1979, 1992, and 2009. You need to go to the local Tuscaloser Walmart and get that Crystal BCS Trophy and return to the NCAA since Colt was injured and we all know UT would have won if he had been in the game.

[Bamruff62]

@greymoose1000 whoa, easy there Moose. Go back and fill the prescription there junior. Alabama is officially recognized as the AP and/or UPI National Champion for 1961 1964,65 1973, 78, 79 and 2009. I'm sorry Bama played too rough and knock Colt out of the game. It's Texas fault for not being able to protect their QB.

Face it Moose, every poll went with Bama in 1978. The UPI barely went with USC. The 79 Sugar Bowl was the National Championship game. The winner of that game was your Champion.

[Bamruff62]

@Bamruff62 Continued. I left out Alabama was 1992 unanamous National Champions for 1992.

[greymoose1000]

@Bamruff62 Hey why do you post or reply to yourself. WTF? Go USC Trojans my man and try to be sure and take your medication before retiring to bed tonight. Wouldn't want you to hurt yourself.

[pb2251]

@greymoose1000 Here's a history lesson: 1st, UAB & UAH are a part of the UA system. Uof A was founded in 1831, Birmingham was founded in 1871. Can you tell which on came first?. 2nd- yes, USC beat AL in the 3rd wk, but how did that loss to unranked Arizona St 2 wks later work out for ya? Not very well according to the AP, FWAA, and NFF. The UPI's voters split their votes between UA and USC 15-15, USC finished with 4 more points and won the UPI. Wow, so convincing.

[pb2251]

@greymoose1000 Also on the '78 season, ask Notre Dame who the NC is in 1993. They finished #2 and beat Florida St but Florida St was still consensus NC. As far as only having 4 legit titles in "61,79, 92, and 09, I'll stick with ESPNs opinion over yours that recognizes all of Bama's poll titles, especially 1978. And regarding our 09 trophy, you should be more concerned about having to pack up and return your 04 trophy than whether or not Colt played.

[Bamruff62]

@greymoose1000 - Sorry there Moose, But I'm afraid USC screwed the pooch at their chances of winning a unanamous National Title when they lost to e lesser team - Arizona St.

Of course, I admit Bama screwed the pooch at their chances of winning a unanamous National Championship when they lost to a lesser team - USC!

Fortunately for USC the refs blew the call on that Charlie White fumble in the Rose bowl or USC never would have gotten a share. Cheers to phantom Touch Downs.

[alabamaskies]

@Bamruff62 man dont get all pissed over greymoose1000 he thinks that sec is a bunch of pussy and dont play anybody one day he will get usc out of his ass and believe that sec is the toughest confence in ncaa when usc get the balls to play the sec

[greymoose1000]

@alabamaskies ESPN rates their all time top five NCAA College Football Teams as follows: 1) Oklahoma 2) USC 3) Ohio State 4) Notre Dame and 5) Nebraska. Sorry, don't see any SEPEE teams on that list. UAT also is left out. WOW!!!! Hey did you guys play RAMMER JAMMER to the COCKS, LSWHO, and AU after they dismantled you this year?

[greymoose1000]

@Bamruff62 UAT!!! UAT!!! UAT!!!

[CalebMTurberville]

@Bamruff62 Bamruff62,

You are absolutely right that Alabama's 1978 title is legit. Here's the reasoning for anybody who doesn't get it. At the end of the 1978 season, there were 2 teams that prevailed with identifical 11-1 records: Alabama and USC. However, USC's loss came from Arizona State and Alabama's loss came from USC, who was the FREAKIN' CO-CHAMPION THAT YEAR!!!! In my mind, Alabama's 1 loss that year meant a lot more than USC's one loss, not to mention Bama got screwed in 1977!

[CalebMTurberville]

@Bamruff62

Feel free to look at 1977 to see what I mean. Let's also not forget that Bama was the undisputed, consensus national champion in 1979. Throughout the 1970s, there were 4 teams that matters: Bama, USC, Nebraska, and Notre Dame.  Bama's 1973 title means nothing less than Texas's title in 1970 or Michigan State's title in 1965. And Bama's run from 1977 to 1980 is one of the GREATEST sports dynasties ever, PERIOD!

[Bamruff62]

@CalebMTurberville - I hear ya. Beating the sole undefeated #1 team in a Major Bowl game was good enough to jump Notre Dame up 4 slots to #1 leap frogging over Bama and crowning ND Unanimous Champs in 1977.

Alabama did the samething in 1978 beating #1 undefeated PSU in the Sugar Bowl. And Bama was ranked ahead of USC!

Who had the better loss in 78'? Alabama loosing to #7 USC, a USC team that went on to be Co-Champs? or USC loosing to a slightly above average, unranked ASU team?

[CalebMTurberville]

@CalebMTurberville Okay, I forgot about Oklahoma, which claims the title for 1974 and won it outright in 1975.

[CalebMTurberville]

@Bamruff62 Lastly, I'll point out that the 11-1 1977 Bama squad won against the #1 ranked USC team that year, so in a way the 1978 game in which USC prevailed was a revenge game in which a team usually plays its best game of the year. But all that matters in my mind is the fact that Bama took out the #1 ranked Penn State in the 1978 Sugar Bowl in what I believe is a bowl game that rivals the 2006 Rose Bowl game for greatest college football game of all time.

[CalebMTurberville]

I have to take issue with one point in this video.

I believe that during the 1979-1980 bowl season, it was Ohio St. that was ranked #1 and Alabama was ranked #2. Ohio St. lost to #3 ranked USC in the Rose Bowl in a 1-point loss 16-17, while Alabama walloped the #6 ranked Arkansas 24-9 in the Sugar Bowl.

[CalebMTurberville]

@CalebMTurberville ...allowing Alabama to be declared consensus national champions.

[CalebMTurberville]

Interesting facts to add to this discussion. A lot of 'Bama haters like to point out that 'Bama lost their bowl games in '64 and '73.

Well, Tennessee was awarded the AP and UPI Trophies in '51, but lost their bowl game to 10-0 Marlyand team in the Sugar Bowl.

In 1953, Maryland was awarded the AP and UPI Trophies, but lost to a 9-1-1 Oklahoma team in the Orange Bowl.

In 1960, an 8-2 Minnesota team lost to a 10-1 Washington team in the Orange Bowl after winning the AP and UPI trophies.

[CalebMTurberville]

@CalebMTurberville And lastly, a 1957 Auburn team was put on probation and sat out the bowl games but was awarded with an AP trophy for the season. An Ohio St. team that year, though having lost a regular season game, was given the UPI and FWAA trophies.

What I'm trying to say is that for nearly 30 years, college football's champion was chosen based on the regular season results. In 1964, Alabama played and won their regular season.

[AUDEFheismankillers]

@CalebMTurberville really i've been thinking and looking at the past polls...talk about a mess of guesses and criticisms. the system now still has its flaws. i just don't understand why you would have a playoff system in h.s. SKIP IT in college, then have it again in the pros? are we really preparing our boys if we leave that CRITICAL part of the pro season preparation out? how many teams did we think would win the super bowl and lost bc of playoffs? no end in sight

[CalebMTurberville]

@AUDEFheismankillers

The whole issue is a jumbled mess. I have an idea that I wish would take off, but it remains to be seen. Here it goes, and I apologize if it is a little crazy in of itself, but here me out:

1. Okay, organize the BCS poll into a system that averages the AP, Coaches', and a handful of computer rankings that adjust for strength of schedule, etc.

2. Next, at the end of the season take the BCS poll and pick out the 8 highest ranked conference champions....

[CalebMTurberville]

@AUDEFheismankillers ....independents will have to be figured in also.

3. Find 4 bowls that can agree to host these 8 teams. Match them up 1 vs. 8, 2 vs. 7, 3 vs. 6, and 4 vs. 5. If the Rose Bowl doesn't want to play, fine, let the Pac-10/Big Ten teams suffer.

4. Next, have the 4 winners of each bowl play in a National Championship semi-final played at 2 of any of the stadiums that participated in the first round.

5. Have the two winners of the semi-final playoff for that championship.

[CalebMTurberville]

@AUDEFheismankillers

Finally, have an agreement on how the venues are rotated, and voila, you have a system that merges the bowl system (now every team can play for a bowl trophy) and a playoff system to whittle down the teams until you have a definitive national champion with the most wins in the country.

[CalebMTurberville]

@AUDEFheismankillers But as it stands, the fans of Division 1 FBS College Football have resolved to have a friendly agreement that you either have to win the AP Trophy or (preferably, because its the only trophy that you are required to play for) the Coaches' Trophy. All criticisms of the system noted, if a team doesn't think the system is fair, they have the option of play ing Division 1 FCS, but of course, there's no money there.

[CalebMTurberville]

@AUDEFheismankillers Going back to what we were originally talking about, if we accept the current standard, the Alabama has finished 1st in either the AP or the Coaches' poll 8 times in its history. (These are commonly referred to as the 'poll-era' championships.) The preceding 5 seasons Alabama claims are the result of A) The y are pre-1936 titles, which therefore don't have to obey the currently accepted standard. B) A lone mark on Alabama's record (1941) which I fully agree....

[CalebMTurberville]

@AUDEFheismankillers doesn't need to be claimed by Alabama. But if Auburn wants to claim that it's been screwed by the polls during its history (1983, 2004), then Alabama can equally claim 1937, 1945, 1966, 1975, and 1977 as years it was screwed from consideration.

[CalebMTurberville]

All in all, I just can't understand why Alabama can't claim non-AP poll championships but Notre Dame, USC, Tennessee, Georgia, Kentucky, and Ole Miss can. In the case of Notre Dame and USC, their claims are pre-AP titles. The way I see it, if you played a spectacular, undefeated season (especially if you capped it off with a bowl victory) and, let's say more than four, selectors gave you their title then you have a legitimate claim to that year.

[CalebMTurberville]

@CalebMTurberville I can understand that as history went on that the gold-standard for a claim were the major selectors like the AP, UPI, and the FWAA.  But then you have to deal with Tennessee's 1938 claim, Georgia's 1942 claim, Kentucky's 1950 claim, and Ole Miss's 1959 and 1962 claims. For Tennessee and Georgia, I think you have to give it to them. They played great seasons and the AP was still in its infancy (I mean they were giving their trophy to Minnesota almost every year).

[CalebMTurberville]

@CalebMTurberville For Kentucky and Ole Miss, I think you have to cry foul. True they played a few great seasons, but I think that by 1950 the AP was pretty much set as the major selector, and that by 1962 you had better have won AP, UPI, or the FWAA to be taken seriously.

Alabama's 1941 claim is very dubious (as result of "trying to make Alabama football look as good a possible"). If there's anxiety about going back to 12 claims, I think we can make up for it by claiming 1945.

[CalebMTurberville]

@CalebMTurberville But Alabama can and should make its claim to the 1925, 1926, 1930, and 1934 seasons.

[CalebMTurberville]

One more thing I'd like to add to Alabama's legacy is that 3 of its poll-era championships came from #1 vs. #2 bowl match-ups (1978, 1992, and 2009). No small feat, it helps legitimize the quality of those claims.

[CalebMTurberville]

Can't we (Alabama fans) just drop the claim to the 1941 season and just claim 1945 instead? For all the 'Bama haters out there, at least most of our claimed pre-AP championships are perfects seasons with either wins at the pasadena Rose Bowl or, in the case of 1926, ties against an equally remarkable Stanford team.

And please remember that it took a while for the AP trophy to gain its prestige. Just ask Norte Dame, USC, Tennessee, Georgia, Kentucky, and Ole Miss.

[CalebMTurberville]

@CalebMTurberville And good for Auburn fans that they just claim the 1957 trophy, as claim that's highly disputed with folks at Ohio St., receivers of the UPI and FWAA trophies from that same year (as well as a bowl victory). But just for the record, aside from the 1913, 1957, 1983, or 1993, not a single selector (major, minor, or otherwise) has declared Auburn a national champion. And of those four, the only two I can see as being truly legit are 1913 and 1957.

[CalebMTurberville]

@CalebMTurberville While on the other hand, 'Bama has been declared national champion for the years 1925, 1926, 1930, 1934, 1941, 1945, 1961, 1964, 1965, 1966, 1973, 1975, 1977, 1978, 1979, 1992, and 2009. Also, Alabama played a perfect regular season in 1937, which from my analysis should have won them the AP trophy that year, but alas that's still 17 remarkable years. Here's hoping the Aubies get the FWAA trophy for 2004 so they can feel better about their program.

[CalebMTurberville]

@CalebMTurberville And finally, for Norte Dame fans: We'll give you full claim to 1973, if you give us our rightful claims to 1966 and 1977.

[AUDEFheismankillers]

@CalebMTurberville and your school is the only one in the nation who actually believes you won it all those years! haha! Notre Dame and Arkansas won it two of those years and thats the ones i know off the top of my head haha!

[CalebMTurberville]

@AUDEFheismankillers In 1964, the polls took their final vote at the end of the REGULAR season. So in essence Alabama's game against Auburn that year was its national championship game. It's the same thing that happened to Auburn in 1957. Their probation prevented them from participating in a bowl game, and but the rules at the time permitted them to receive the AP trophy.

[CalebMTurberville]

@CalebMTurberville Starting in 1965 (as a result of 1964), the AP began taking a final vote after the bowl games. Michigan St. was given the UPI trophy as a result of their spectacular regular season; however, they did not do well in their bowl game that year. Alabama, which was ranked 4th going into their bowl game, was the highest ranked team to win a bowl game, so the AP gave them their trophy.

[CalebMTurberville]

@CalebMTurberville The following year, the two-time defending national champions the Crimson Tide played a spectacular 11-0 season, including a 34-7 blowout of Nebraska in the Sugar Bowl. However, both the AP and UPI trophies would go to a Norte Dame team that tied with Michigan St. that year. What's worse is that the Crimson Tide, instead of coming in at second that year, placed third behind Michigan St.

[CalebMTurberville]

@CalebMTurberville Alabama's next national championship season came in 1973. As a result of their spectacular regular season, the UPI awarded Alabama its national championship trophy. However, the Crimson Tide would lose to Notre Dame 24-23 in the Sugar Bowl. As a result, the AP awarded Notre Dame its trophy. Starting in 1974, the UPI began taking its final vote after the bowl games.

[CalebMTurberville]

@CalebMTurberville In 1977, a 11-1 #3 ranked Alabama blewout the #8 ranked Ohio St. in the Sugar bowl, but they lost out to a 11-1 #5 ranked Notre Dame team that blewout a #1 ranked Texas. No split decision here as all well-regarded polls awarded Notre Dame their trophy for 1977. A number of Crimson Tide fans felt that 'Bama should have been awarded as they had played a more spectucular regular season and were the highest ranked team to win a bowl game.

[CalebMTurberville]

@CalebMTurberville So in 1964, Alabama legitimately won that national championship as the awards were given after the regular season but prior to the bowl games. Of course, Arkansas was awarded the FWAA Grantland Price award for their efforts, so they didn't go home empty handed. And Alabama legitimately won the 1973 award, and if Notre Dame fans feel too upset about that they can at least take comfort in the fact that they took home the AP trophy and took home the 1966 and 1977 titles.

[CalebMTurberville]

@CalebMTurberville My apologies. Apparently, after 1965, the AP went back to taking its final vote before the bowl games for a short time. I can't find anywhere where Notre Dame even played a bowl game from 1925 until 1970. Apparently in the wake of the 1965 season, the AP poll decided to make it harder for Alabama to win three back to back championships. I mean we won the 1964 fair in square, but they decided to change it for 1965, and when that didn't work they decided to change it for 66.

[AUDEFheismankillers]

@CalebMTurberville so auburn and alabama were the only teams given the chance to win the nc so the iron bowl was the decisive victory? the notre dame and arkansas comment i made was from facts gathered from the NCAA <-i think they know what they are talking about more than any fan out there.

[CalebMTurberville]

@AUDEFheismankillers No. I was stating the fact that since the AP and UPI polls were based on regular season results, Alabama's game against Auburn that year was the determining factor. Had Alabama lost, Arkansas would probably have taken home the AP and UPI trophies. As their regular season wasn't as well-regarded as 'Bama's, they were not awarded. But Arkansas fans should not blame 'Bama fans for their grief as the AP and UPI set-up the rules, and they did get the FWAA trophy.

[CalebMTurberville]

@AUDEFheismankillers

I've found a list of that the NCAA keeps of various national champions in Division 1 FBS. It should be noted that the NCAA doesn't officially recognize any champion for FBS and that this list may be lacking in some respects.

If this is what you're talking about, then the NCAA clearly lists Alabama as a co-champion for 1964 and 1973.

[AUDEFheismankillers]

@CalebMTurberville i would think it would be the one who has more polls recognize it as the NC which is not bama in the years i talked about. i think there is a good reason Bama is the ONLY school that believes they have those championships. no one i know of is debating Notre Dame's. for good reason. but i'm talking to a brick wall so wutever. I'll just join the rest of the nation and just laugh at you.

[CalebMTurberville]

@AUDEFheismankillers Okay, we can talk about all different kinds of selectors, but since 1950 at the earliest, the AP and the UPI (now known as the USA Today's Coaches' Poll) have been the most well-regarded selectors in college football. The FWAA is given some credit for being ahead of the others in that it waited on the bowl games to determine a champion. Okay, so hopefully that's settled.

In 1964, Alabama won the AP and UPI. Arkansas got the FWAA.

In 1973, Alabama got the UPI

[CalebMTurberville]

@AUDEFheismankillers and Notre Dame got the AP and FWAA.

In the world of college football, both 1964 and 1973 are widely considered to be split championships.

After years and years of split championships, Division 1-A began adopting a system to force the #1 to play the #2 team in a bowl game. This gave way to the Bowl Coalition, Bowl Alliance, and the current Bowl Championship Series systems. But there have still been split championships in 1997 and 2003.

[CalebMTurberville]

@AUDEFheismankillers I think I can rest easy if I can get an Auburn fan like yourself to admit that Alabama is not the only team to split championships. It's a common phenomenon in college football and even Auburn's 1957 claim is shared with Ohio St. Also that its a common phenomenon for teams that had success in the pre-AP era to claim a title.

I promise I'll stop ranting and raving if you'll admit that.

[AUDEFheismankillers]

@CalebMTurberville no alabama is not the only one to claim NC's. as for the true number we will have to agree to disagree

[Bamruff62]

@AUDEFheismankillers - I have read the same similar views and arguments regarding ND's NT's as you have with Alabama's. I have read cfb fans criticism regarding ND 1943,1946, 1953 and 1966 N.T.'s with the 1966 being the most criticized. ND has gotten NC's in years where they didn't finished the regular season with the best record. The regular season was within the AP/UPI's scope of competition.

I don't contest any ND's N.C.'s. It's waste of time. They can recognize whatever NC they wish.

[TH13NCRTR]

Love all of the Bama history the music SUX Like the author

[tolivr]

This is an excellent video and its logic is unassailable.

I have tried to point out the errors of RC123AU's logic but he absolutely will not admit his proven errors.

ALL championships from 1908 to 1926, and from 1869 to 1904 were awarded retroactively. That's over 50 NC teams like Notre Dame (24) and famous Harvard, Ga Tech, and Mich teams.

Once you admit retro polls are acceptable, then all the arguments about Alabama's NCs before 1961 being illegitimate are no longer supportable.

[jeffreyjd1]

I will amend what I said, I did look into this further and I will agree with what ESPN and many other articles written about this year's championship quote, 8. Everything from a credible and non-Alabama news source says 2010 was Alabama's 8th National Championship, I'm going with that. I trust ESPN over anyone when it comes to sports, sorry. If the number 12 is s correct then you need to correct ESPN, and if you can do that, then you have a good argument.

[pb2251]

@jeffreyjd1 Once again, the 8 NC ESPN and your other sources refer to are Poll NC, ie, awarded after 1936. They are refering to all NC awarded after 1961, including 64 and 73 which are often challenged because the awarding poll(s) did so at a time when the chose NCs at the end of the regular season. Using poll NCs as ESPN does, they also recognize Notre Dame with 8 (not 11), Michigan with 2 (not 11), USC with 7 (not 11), Tennessee with 2 (not 6), and I could keep going.

[jeffreyjd1]

Sorry, but I believe the other video. Alabama has FOUR Real Championships. End of story.

[Bamruff62]

@jeffreyjd1 - Not according to the AP and UPI/ BCS. If your going to apply YOUR fuzzy opinionated analysis to Alabama's National Titles than you have to take away half of Notre Dames and OU's NT's. You have to take away Auburn's 57' NT. I'm not on a mission to covert the Auburn unwashed. Think what you want. Alabama has 4 in your opinion. I'll go with the AP's and UPI's 8 National Titles. Piss and moan all you want. It won't change a thing. Deal with it !

[Bamruff62]

As a Bama fan I know I can't handle Bama's past. I still toss and turn knowing Bama had the most winningest program in back to back decades of the 1960's AND 70's. It hurts me to no end that no other program has had the winningest program over "2" consecutive decades except Bama. Please help me! I bow my head in shame knowing Bama is now tied with N.D. for most National Championships and has been to more Bowl games than any other team in CFB. Can anyone help me?

( chortle, chortle ...)

[RC123au]

Did someone really just leave me 20 straight responses? Sheeeeeesh get a life pb, I didn't even read any of them, I already know the history my friend, you should try coping with it

[pb2251]

@RC123au Rainman, my mentally challenged friend, it took that many to point out all of the flaws of your video/ argument. That's what is so sad, it took all those to point out how wrong you are/ how much you don't know. Don't try to kid yourself or us, you had somebody read them to you.

[RC123au]

@pb2251 Believe what you want, but there's no point in reading 20 youtube comments on a subject I'm already educated in, especially when the 20 comments are posted by the likes of you.

Have a nice day pb, I hope you can come to terms with your past

[pb2251]

@RC123au You're a moron and you're not fooling anyone. You've read it, you just have no comeback for the errors I've pointed out along with no comment about the other teams that claims to NCs that by your claims are "bogus". It's easier to fool people when you leave out all the facts. Of course, it doesn't suprise me that your going to use avoidance as your defense.

[RC123au]

@pb2251 Like I said, believe what you want, I didn't read 'em

[retrocareermelted]

@RC123au LOL. You're the one who has a problem with Bama's past. You wasted your time and went out of your way making a lame video attacking Bama's past. Bama fans are proud of Bama's past. In fact we are often accused of living in the past. We would love to see Bama repeat the 70's and it looks like they might do it. But Bama fans are looking eagarly towards the future. Bama won another undisputed NT and Bama is poised to win another The future looks bright for Bama.

[Bamruff62]

Yes, I believe USC's extra game in 1978 was against Hawaii. Come on, Hawaii? You think Hawaii is weak now they were pathetic in the 70's. There was no 85 scholie rule back then. No parity. There was a more pronounced difference between conf's in the 70's. Hawaii was an average team in the WAC! That Hawaii game was a vacation for John Robinson and the team. 2) USC had to get special permission from the NCAA to schedule that game. Alabama played the allotted 11 game schedule that was allowed.

[pb2251]

Lesson #4: Know your own team!

the 2008 Auburn media guide in addition to their 57 AP NC list championships in 1913 (named retroactively in 1970 by Billingsley), 1983 (NY Times, Rothman, CFRA), 1993 (NCF, despite being on probation including a season long TV ban and not eligible for post season play), and 2004 (Peoples Choice). Did you think we had forgotten Tuberville had rings made?

Hope you enjoyed Rainman!

[TheSouthernAmerican]

@pb2251 Who gives a rats a## let play football

[pb2251]

Lesson #3 cont. Poll NC that didn't play in a bowl. Minnesota (1936 AP, 1940 Ap, 1941 AP) Pittsburgh (1937 AP) Ohio State (1942 AP. 1961 FWAA) Notre Dame (1943 AP, 1946 AP, 1949 AP, 1966 (AP/UPI/FWAA) Army (1944AP, 1945 AP) Michigan (1948) Michigan State (1952 AP/UPI) UCLA (1954 UPI/ FWAA) Oklahoma (1956 AP/ UPI/FWAA, 1974 AP) Auburn (1957 AP) LSU (1958 AP/UPI)

[pb2251]

Lesson #3 cont.

AP and/or UPI NC teams other than UA that lost their bowl games from 1950-1973:

1950 Oklahoma (AP/UPI)

1951 Tennessee (AP/UPI)

1953 Maryland (AP/UPI)

1960 Minnesota (AP/UPI)

1965 Michigan St (UPI)

1970 Texas (UPI/ NFF)

1970 Ohio State (NFF)

All schools listed claim the NC awarded for these years.

[pb2251]

Lesson #3 cont.

From 1936-1949 only 2 teams named AP NC played in a bowl game with both teams winning. From 1950-1974, 18 teams that were named AP and /or UPI NC won their bowl games while 8 times a NC team lost. ND was named NC 8 times before their 73 bowl appearance, their first since 1924. In AP/ UPI splits, 3 times one team crowned played in a bowl while the other did not (1954, 1957, and 1974), Twice, one team won while the other did not- Michigan St. in 65 and Texas in 70.

[pb2251]

Lesson #3: Bowl games and NCs in the poll era from 1936-1974

If you think the bowl games historically were essential to naming NCs in the poll era prior to the 73, consider this

For 26 out of 38 years a Poll NC either lost or didn't play in a bowl. 17 teams named as AP NC from 1936 to 1974 didn't play in a bowl game. From 1950-1966, the UPI crowned 3 teams also named by AP without a bowl appearance including the 1954 UCLA split which brings the total to 18 NC without a bowl game.

[pb2251]

Lesson #2 cont.

The poll has been the prevailing NC selector since the APs inception. For many years the NC of various polls were selected prior to the bowl games. The NC was selected before bowl games as follows: AP (1936-1964 & 1966-1967), UPI (1950-1973), FWAA (1954), and NFF (1959-1970). In all other latter day polls, NC were selected after the bowl games.

[pb2251]

Lesson #2: The Poll era from 1936-1973

In 1936 the AP began publishing a poll voted on by a national board of sports writers and broadcasters. Because of their national distribution, the AP poll became instant gospel. The UPI created their own in 1950 and togther they made up the dominant selectors beginning the era of consensus NCs and eventually were joined by the FWAA (54) and NFF (59). While the FWAA and NFF were part of the consensus, AP and UPI were the most widely recognized.

[pb2251]

Lesson #1 cont.

Paul Williamson in 32, Edward Litkenhouse in 34, and Richard Poling in 1935. All but Dunkel and Litkenhouse named teams retroactively. Through the years, other math systems and polls have retroactively named teams NC as did Parke Davis, a college football historian whose work in 33 retroactively named NCs for all but a few years from 1869-1932.

[pb2251]

To help you along Rainman and any other barners, heres a few lessons that will help you understand how NCs have been awarded in the past.

Lesson #1: Math Systems era 1926-1936

A number of math systems were born in the 20s and 30s and were the only organized methods of selecting NCs until the AP began polling sportswriters in 1936. Frank Dickinson, an economics professor, created the first math system in 1926 followed by Deke Houlgate in 27, Dick Dunkel in 29, William Boand in 30,

[pb2251]

Nope, Rainman only seems to be interested in Bama especially their 3 retro NCs but not any other teams that claim them. Other teams that claim retro NCs: Princeton (27), Yale (26), Notre Dame (1), Michigan (6), Pittsburgh (6), California (4), to name a few. In fact, I once brought up NDs 1924 NC named in 1926, 2 years after the season ended (sound familar?). Being the genius he is and unable to see the hypocrisy defended NDs 24 NC and implied they rightfully deserved it.

[pb2251]

Speaking of ESPN and recognizing only Poll NCs, not only do they give Bama 8 (not 13), they also give Notre Dame 8 (not 11), Michigan 2 (not 11), USC 7 (not 11), Pittsburgh 2 (not 9), Tennessee 2 (not 6), Princeton and Yale 0 (not 26 and 18 respectively) and so on. Although, I've never heard the guy who once told me he was making his own poll question any of these other teams, only UA.... I'm sure he's sincere when he says he's not biased.

[pb2251]

Rainman's video claimsUA has 4 NC (before 09's) but to qoute him directly from a post on his page, "and just to let you know, ESPN credited you with 8..." Sadly, he's too stupid to realize that they're talking about poll NCs including 64, 73, and 78 all of which he claims are bogus. It basically means he's just condeded that ESPN, the worldwide leader in sports, acknowledges all poll NCs from 61 on. So who you would you believe, ESPN or a special needs individual?

[pb2251]

Many of the facts Rainman uses in his video are true,but most of them are half truths.They're made to manipulate the facts into biased information by leaving out details. Example: No poll NC has ever been awarded to AU. That statement is true based on the fact that the 57 AP NC was awarded to Alabama Polytechnic Institute and API didn't change it's name to AU until 60. Now, we all know AU won the 57 AP, but that half truth as it stands (no poll NC awarded to AU) is as true as it is misleading.

[pb2251]

On 1978, "the tide somehow claims a split title with the Trojans..." That's false because it's not a claim, it's a fact. UA was awarded the NC after defeating #1 Penn State in the Sugar Bowl by AP, FWAA, and NFF (3 of the 4 consensus selectors of NCs in this era). The UPI awarded their title to USC, resulting in a split title. It's a fact, not a claim.

Again, think FL, OU, and TX in 08. TX beat OU, but OU played in the NC game. It's not so much who you lose to but when you lose.

[pb2251]

On 1964 "this caused so much outrage it instituted namiing the AP champion after the bowl season was over". That's debatable, but as worded it's false. The AP changed in 1965, however they returned to voting at the end of the regular season in 66 & 67. UA became the 5th AP/UPI NC to lose their bowl game from 1950-1964 before permanently changing to post bowl in 1968. Regardless, the fact remains the last AP NC named at the end of the regular season was USC in 1967.

[pb2251]

Parke Davis... started another retroavtive poll... ALONE stated ND shared the title with Alabama" This is also false. Davis' work while done retroactively (with the exception of 1933) was not considered a poll, the NCAA recognizes his work as the only based on research. Davis though wasn't alone as suggested. College Football Research Association (poll) and Sagarin Ratings (system) have also named UA NCs retroactively as well.

[pb2251]

"Notre Dame crowned by 6 polls outright in 1930". That too is false. No polls existed in 1930, only math systems. While ND was named by 7 systems and 2 retro polls(NCF & Helms). Only 4 math systems existed in 1930, Boand, Dickinson, Dunkel, and Houlgate. If you did the research as you claim, then you should have known that only 4 were in existence in 1930and that means you're lying. If you (or the real "researcher" of these "facts") exaggerated this, what else have you (they) exaggerated?

[pb2251]

"Stanford was crowned NC after a 7-7 tie by the Dickinson System". That's actually false. DiS named Stanford NC on Dec 17, 1925 prior to the tie in the Rose Bowl. This means that even if Alabama had won instead of the tie, Stanford would have still been the NC according to DiS, the only math system in existence in 1926.

[pb2251]

RC, AKA, Rainman, my favorite special needs poster of exaggerated and half truth videos. It must really piss you off that Bama won another NC. I bet you got so mad you threw your protective helmet down only to fall seconds later and bump you head. Hope you didn't have any furher brain damage, God knows you can't afford to get any dumber.

I see you're still claiming that EVERY fact in your video is true. Really? Let's take a look at some of them why don't we?

[pb2251]

"the Houlgate and Helms poll awarded the title, problem is Houlgate began in 1927 and Helms in 1941" That is true, however, you left out a few details. Since there was no math system or poll in 25 it would have had to been retroactive. I guess you forgot to mention Boand System (1930) and Poling System (1935) that named UA NC prior to Helms and the other 4 math systems/ polls that retroactively named UA in 1925.

[RC123au]

It's so flattering to have videos that are devoted to me, but that aside, let's get down to it.

Every title prior to 1961 wasn't even claimed by Alabama until the 80s so that, accompanied with the fact that they are ALL retroactive titles automatically makes those a joke. In 1964 you lost your bowl to Texas who lost to an undefeated Arkansas, in 1973 you lost your bowl to ND, and in 1978 you lost to USC who finished 12-1 while you finished 11-1.

You should include those facts in your vid

[RC123au]

BTW I'm totally diggin' the Dr. Envious name, I'm contemplating a user name change to it, you should go ahead and change yours to Captain Delusional too, it'd look good on you

[Bamruff62]

Good vid. Yeh, I never could understand Bama haters and USC fans contention that USC should of received a unanimous N.C. for 1978. The Bama/USC game was a regular season game that should of only affected the 2 teams in the regular season poll when the game was played not 2nd time at the end of the season. You only get 1 jump in the polls for winning 1 reg. season game.

USC got their jump in the polls after their win against Bama. That's all they were entitle to. It wasn't a Championship game.

[Bamruff62]

Every major sporting publication recognizes Alabama's 7 AP NT's and 1973 lone UPI NT. ABC and ESPN and every major sports source say Alabama is tied with Notre Dame for most National Titles.

They only go on the post 1936 AP and UPI era. That's the universal frame of reference in the sports media. They don't bother with CFB programs pre-1936 claims.

[muerkier]

Good job debunking him. I debunked him in comments with the same facts ... I stopped after 1930 though as it became quite obvious he had his facts completely skewed.

[KOARTISTCHRIS]

13 or 8 is still more than Auburns 0.

[CalebMTurberville]

Two quick questions:

1. Do you feel that since Alabama claims the 1925 and 1926 national championships on the strength of the Billingsley Report among many others that Auburn has a legitimate claim to the 1913 title, also based on the Billingsly Report?

Yeah, I know, Harvard had the better year and racked-up far more awards. And I know how hard it is to give Auburn credit as an Alabama fan.

2. Also, what are your ideas for a system to crown at national champion in FBS,

[CalebMTurberville]

that would be resolved on the field like a play-off system, but also salvage at least some of the more historically important bowls?

[CalebMTurberville]

Thanks for sticking up for the pre-1961 championships.

[doctorpaul34]

espn says last night was their 8th

[justlikepauls1979]

we have 8 AP poll titles...thats what abc and espn ues...so they dont count the 5 titles prior to the ap poll...do some real research insted of writing somethin you saw on tv...roll tide bitch

[aufan2319]

Also, you said bowls didnt matter in 1964 for the national championship, but in 1965 you state that's how Alabama got to be number one. Hmm, not very logical. And if you watched the National Championship pregame, they said they only have 7. Kinda hard to deny that all of them aren't legit

[CalebMTurberville]

The reason why the 1965 Orange Bowl propelled Alabama to National Champion is because the AP revised their method in the wake of the 1964 season.

[CalebMTurberville]

Meaning, they starting waiting until after the bowls to conduct the final poll.

[pb2251]

@aufan2319, you answered your own comment. In 1964, the FWAA was the only poll that voted after the bowl games. In 1965, the AP joined the FWAA in post bowl voting for that year before permantly voting after the bowl games in 1968. The UPI voted #1 Michigan State as their NC. #1 and #2 lost their bowl games, #4 Bama beat #3 Nebraska resulting in the AP and FWAA naming UA NCs. Hope that clears things up.

[pb2251]

@aufan2319 BTW, as they mentioned above, when networks say 7, they're referring to poll champioships, i.e. after 1936. Notre Dame claims 11, they said after the game the UAs now tied with ND at 8 NC each. So when they said 7 (now 8) they are crediting 61, 64, 65, 73, 78, 79, and 92 (now 09) which includes the 3 years (64, 73, 78) the other video tries/ claims to discredit.

[pcthompson]

I will debate anyone who is smart enough to spell Auburn. Which is apparently not you. Stay Classy though.

[aufan2319]

Wow i agree with some of your stuff but some of it is just you twisting your words like the other video. I agree that the other video is not all true but you need to take in consideration the polls in which alabama was called national champions. Even though they had more, some weren't by credible polls. And no need trying to win 1941, thats not a championship. Not only were you 20th in the AP but either 3rd or 4th in SEC depending on where you look.