Dr. Sam Parnia - Unraveling the Mystery of the Self

[soldatheero]

"Mind begets energy and matter. Without mind there can be neither energy nor matter. Energy is derived from mind and is continually sustained by it; it cannot subsist without mind, latent or manifest. Matter depends upon energy and cannot remain matter without energy, latent or manifest.

Mind can subsist without energy, as energy can subsist without matter. In contrast to an infinite number of individual minds as completely separate entities from one another, the Universal mind.. " Meher Baba

[Bobby3065]

I may sound uninformed but all this will finally resolve to one thing: Without Jesus Christ,we are nothing. Everybody is afraid of death when the time comes,afraid of what happens in the other side. But with Him,I no longer fear dying.Heaven awaits only those who accept Him!

[ntn3600]

The brain is inside our body and we see the universe outside our the brain(as a normal thought). But again we see this universe using our brain itself. So is the Universe we see inside our brain?.In short whatever we think, is closer to actual?. Who knows, quite puzzling. But I am sure scientitsts one day will crack this puzzle of after death scenario.

[yolmc]

Heey!, maybe Parnia can confirm that mind can survive or work after death brain, but maybe this can happen just few seconds or milliseconds, and then dissapears forever

[dprg101]

If the study proves it then the scientific community will accept it. That's how science works.

It's the philosophers who will be in for a hard time :-)

[Theotherguy115]

@dprg101 Hardly. Most philosophers would agree they support the idea that human conciousness exsists outside the body. If your argueing on terms of religion, most religions revolve around the concept of life after death...

[ratsratsrats100]

this guy is facinating to listen to i want to see the results of these studies and see how the scientific community deals with the findings if they prove life beyond death

[dmustard11]

@ratsratsrats100 i really hope the results prove mind can survive physical death but the way things are going with science, I doubt they will. There's always a chance though. it would certainly be good news for psychic mediums if the results were positive as it would back up medium's claims that they communicate with the minds of deceased persons.

[gogoasacenusie]

@dmustard11 , 99% of mediums are charlatans. Google "cold reading".

[sebedina]

v interesting topic

[74Charm]

why are you so concerned about what happens to the consciousness in the moment of death? Isn`t it more important what happens to it when we are alive?

[forestloves]

Eh, no. Death is the gateway to eternity. Life lasts... for a maximum of 150 years, maybe? For most of us at this stage, it's 80 years. What happens during death is therefore of infinite importance ;)

[74Charm]

I can see that we don`t share the same opinion about death at all. I think that when you die, you die. There is no afterlife and no second chances. If you are buried your body will decompose, everything will disappear eventually. Your organs stops working at the time of death. Without them you dont have a life. Its like taking a motor out of car.

[forestloves]

"I think that when you die, you die."

Yeah, you think that. Other people think other things about many stuff :)

That's not the point at all, though. You wondered why people were more concerned with what happened to consciousness at the moment of death rather then what happens here in life, and THAT's what I tried to explain to you ;)

Peace

[74Charm]

The closest i have ever come to a death scene with my conscience intact was when i was involved in an airplane incident.

One of the engines stopped working and we were flying over a baren and deserted place when we got the message that we would have to make an emergency landing. I saw my life flash before my eyes and i thought about all the things i hadden`t experienced yet and i thought about the people who loved me. It was like i got a confirment of their love.

[forestloves]

That's not the kind of life review that NDErs go through, son. It's sad that those two distinct phenomena are bunched together.

Peace :)

[satxdc99]

@74Charm ... You are right. Once your body dies, it dies. But we are more than our physical bodies.

[74Charm]

We will have to agree to disagree on that statement. I know that once we are dead there is no more life, just the memory of the life that once existed.

[74Charm]

I don`t agree! I think that it is only in your fantasy that life goes on. I think you have a fear of death(like we all). But in your case you need that reassuring feeling that there is still a life after this one. Why you need that i don`t know, and i don`t care about.

You can`t claim something that has never been proved.

[74Charm]

Believe it(inside your own head), have your own theories about it, fantasies about it, think about it, yes. Prove it, convince others that it`s the truth, no.

[satxdc99]

U need a hobby... Is it necessary to reply to my comment THREE times?

[74Charm]

No you need one instead of sitting there making up bullshit!

[74Charm]

Death is nothing but the death. We can die in different ways yes, but its still death and its still our bodies giving in to something lethal. I must say you have a vivid imagination.

[forestloves]

You're missing the point of this debate.

You were originally asking why what happens when we die is more important than what happens when we live.

I responded that what happens what we die more or less is relevant for how eternity will be spent. And how eternity will be spent is of more importance to some than how the next 60 years will be spent. At least to me.

Do you see why you're responding to the wrong thing?

[74Charm]

At least now you admit that eternity of the body is something only you believe in. I know that life on this planet will go on for about 7milliards of years(until the sun dies), the universe will go on without me, so in some sence there is a eternity outside my life and body.

Who has told you about eternity and what kind of proof and evidence do that person have? It would be kinda stupid to believe something that has no proof. People can make up things and lie. Don`t believe everything.

[forestloves]

Actually, I never said I believed in the eternity of the body?

Where did I say such a thing?

And it's not 'milliards' in English, it's billions. Are you Swedish or something?

Well, for starters, NDEers have told us all about eternity - that we have always existed, that all of us are a giant family, and that there most certainly is a wonderful afterlife around the door of the physical body.

Yes, people can lie, but millions of people around the globe telling the same thing, isn't lying.

[GrittyMcCheese]

@forestloves MILLIONS?

You're a handicap...

[forestloves]

@GrittyMcCheese What are you responding to?

[74Charm]

Come on forestloves! We don`t live in the medieval times anymore.

We have so much scientific evidence today that i honestly don`t understand why there are still people who believe in nonsense.

Some people make up things just to get attention. Attention is ok in itself but when you give out false information that you can`t prove and you know is false, then you are messing with other peoples minds. You are only giving in for misinterpretations.

[forestloves]

All scientists in the NDE field of study feel that the phenomenon is supernatural, bar none. That should at least begin to tell you something, right? The only scientist, which of course are the majority, who feel that the NDE is hallucinatory, ARE THOSE THAT AREN'T STUDYING IT!

I'm guessing you may not have understand what science and evidence is. Science is a metaphysical tool for discovering facts about reality. It does not assume physicalism, it only happens to be the current paradigm. Cont

[forestloves]

I know we don't live in the medieval times. But we aren't living at the end of history either where everything is known, yet you act like we do. We don't. Our worldview is constantly changing, and many of us who DO think that science is the way to go have long ago given up the idea that matter is all there is, as NDEs _CLEARLY_ _SHOW_ that the mind is immaterial and leave the body at death.

ufoskeptic(dot)org(slash)gross­man(dot)html

Read that, and educate yourself! ;)

Peace

[emsalem86]

@forestloves who says the mind has to be immaterial to transcend death? when you die, indeed your body is destroyed, but what really happens when something is destroyed?.a common misconseption is the idea that you can add or remove something from existence. false. nothing is a neutral state, if something can become nothing, then nothing can become something. Think of this, if you set a tree on fire, is it destroyed? well what really happens is the tree CHANGES into heat, light, and at...

[emsalem86]

@forestloves ... a molecular level. everything is still there, only changed.

relating this back to our experience. consider that everything we are conscious of now is a result of our "makeup", or matter if you will. what we are determines absolutely all we sense, no doubt.

when the body is destroyed, this remains true and can never change. what we will sense will be consistent with what we are.

so if mind is matter, then matter is mind....

[74Charm]

I think the point of death is different for everybody. When people talk about near death experience i think they turn to escapeism. If you are brain dead, then the mind can`t remember. Also we like animals have instincts and there are certain movements that can happen involuntary.

[74Charm]

Those who survive can have illusions from the drugs they got at the hospital. It is know that people wake up after surgery thinking it was all a dream.

[mounthydra]

" ...or what they told the researchers afterwards were misinterpreted as a significantly precise description of what was happening."

Their is absolutely know way to be sure about that unless you suggest the doctors were not properly listening and misrecorded the events. Either way, the sample size is large enough to test the OBE and descriptions of the events in the OR. The number of anecdotal reports of events being described during "death" is probably why they take this research seriously.

[anewpersonalparadigm]

Absolutely. Imagine being a medical doctor, functioning within the most materialistic paradigm, with knowledge that has provided you the authority to say that a person's body has died, and as such they, as a consciousness, *does not exist anymore*, only to have them recount your entire OR procedure/activity upon resuscitation. Imagine this happening thousands and thousands of times. This would absolutely impress even the most skeptical individual, and thus the AWARE study is born...

[JoeTheEagle]

"What Happens When We Die?", by Sam Parnia. This is the book that explains Dr. Parnia's studies over the past 10 years on the subjects of near-death experiences and the nature of consciousness, including the main existing thoeries (neurological, psiquiatrical, psicological, etc) , precise descriptions of studies and cases, the BBC case, etc.

Very good book. Much more complete than any lecture.

[anewpersonalparadigm]

Anecdotal evidence, advanced physics and the data being compiled by Dr. Parnia and his colleagues are all very compelling sources of evidence for the non-local nature of the consciousness.

These are people of science who are now proclaiming that indeed, the world is not flat. It will be some years before the majority will acknowledge this, until one day it will be a casual fact that will seem impressive that it wasn't properly understood for so long. Much like the flat Earth paradigm long ago.

[danelpanel1995]

i have had a near death experience my name is dan horn i am in sams book as andrew

[sadunkal]

It's not uninteresting but he's referring only to a subgroup of an already small percentage of "clinically dead" people, probably a lot less than 10%.

I think it's much more likely that those people either still had a somewhat functioning cognition at the time(due to things like misdiagnosis of brain-death or unknown mechanisms within the brain) or what they told the researchers afterwards were misinterpreted as a significantly precise description of what was happening.

I advise caution.

[sadunkal]

Google this:

Out-of-body experience recreated

Experts have found a way to trigger an out-of-body experience in volunteers.

It 's an article on BBC news. It's really related to all this in my opinion. What happens inside the brain during "death" may trigger experiences like the ones Dr. Parnia talks about. As I said I think it's pretty likely that even if someone was able to accurately describe what happened during their "death" as claimed, their brains were probably not completely dead.

[anewpersonalparadigm]

This was an experiment using visual illusions to trick the brain. No attempt was made to properly induce a true out of body experience.

Regardless of your feelings on the authenticity of such an experience, for the experiment to be thorough, they must at least work with people capable of having lucid out of body experiences, and work to facilitate the actual phenomena. Using mannequins and virtual reality goggles does not help to achieve the objective of this experiment.

Interesting though!

[sadunkal]

What confuses me is that you say "a true out of body experience" or "lucid out of body experiences"... What do you exactly mean by that?

I assume that you're aware that I'm questioning whether or not "a true out of body experience" exists.

[alwinder60]

If I drink a few glasses of wine,I am impaired and incoherent,can see double.

So,how is it possible that a person with no blood in the brain and clinically dead could have a "super conscious experience",apparently in real time?

I can see why these scientists are working on this.......

[dmustard11]

If you drink a few glasses of wine you do indeed become impaired and incoherent but you could then fall asleep and have a perfectly vivid and lucid dream.

[alwinder60]

.......provided that I have a healthy and working brain,don't you think?

[dmustard11]

No not necessarily.

Anyway, what I find even more intriguing is how the vast majority of people do NOT experience the NDE, which says alot.

[alwinder60]

Señor,what intrigues me is that these NDEs can be replicated under the influence of drugs ,like Ketamine or LSD,and also,by people (Like monks) in deep meditation.........and in the so called "Death and Rebirth" experiences,that BTW are increasingly being used nowadays by psychiatrists to treat people with addiction to hard drugs and alcoholism.....(see Karl Jansen or Stalisnav Grof)

[dmustard11]

And your point is?

Are you a believer in the brain as the receiver of consciousness or the creator???

[alwinder60]

If you want to know,I never,since I was 17,had any "beliefs" in any so called "creators",nor do I now either.But I am curious about neuroscientists,psychiatrists and physicists alike trying to find out what consciousness is,and it looks to me that the experiences under the influence of LSD for example,actually "take people into spaces we normally can not access" (using Karl Jansen's comments on this)

[alwinder60]

Señor,some food for thought,you can probably just give some consideration to the fact that,historically,so many people have had "exactly the same experience",and then we can ask ourselves Why?

[sadunkal]

There is no problem with consideration. But I think there is a lot of room for questioning many of the assumptions being made here. And I don't see a significant inclination to put those assumptions to test. What I see is more like a desire to believe with little scientific inquiry.

[alwinder60]

Yes,I can agree with most of your concerns.But,because Dr. Parnia's study,I myself can see more than a "desire" to put these assumptions to test.

[riskina]

It's a great idea to post videos that would otherwise not be available to an audience outside of great New York. Thank you.

[cushingpushing]

Great video, thanks for posting it!