Well Gays can legally marry in Canada and our Society has been Harmed .The Only People Harming Canada are the Harper CONservatives and the STUPID "canadians" that support the Evangelical FAUX Christian FAR RIGHT. I knew that they shouldn't have allowed FOX "NEWS" to broadcast here.LMAO.
what was the day you set aside your homosexual feelings and tendencies..... and CHOSE to be strait? we pay 100% taxes but get half the rights. i have been in an LTR for 10 years now, longer than both of my brothers marriges put together. i do think gays need to get rid of the word marriage for now, to get what is most important. this issue will require baby steps to get to a point of TRUE equality. it is UNamerican to deny or take away rights to gays (or anyone) with our constitution."4all?"
I LOVE Meredith Baxter & wish her ALL the BEST; but one has to wonder if the change in her sexual orientation occurred after she was on "Jenny Craig" too long or had one too many "Little Debbie" late night snacks!
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she's as obvious a lesbian now as she was in "family ties". she's as obvious a lesbian as that crotch-licker chick "Mrs. Darcey" in "Married With Children"
News Flash - OPRAH is a lesbian too!
Sheeze, what's up with middle America? IT'S EASY to spot the homos! I remember when my mid-western friends thought Adam Lambert wasn't gay! HE WAS OBVIOUSLY into penis from the word go!
Who the hell cares lady. My God, STF and keep who's sticking what in you private. If she likes to fuck donkeys are we supposed to know that to? What a self important cunt.
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I don't get you. Is "they" a derogatory remark? You can't say black anymore, you can't say Muslim, and you can't say "they" anymore. We can no longer refer to people? We are, after all, talking about "they" who are gay and want to be married. Am I misunderstanding you? I don't want to misinterpret you.
@anotherfoolonthehlLL You don't want to misinterpret me yet u tangentially went in2 this absurd diatribe.
You just reinforced my point of segregating the gays & considering them as 2nd class citizens by the govt. "They" file taxes as SSM while straight couples file as M. When "they" choose 2 marry some Scandinavian native, their significant other would not enjoy the same benefit of str8s becoming a US citizen when they marry, among others, so I guess "they" should just "settle" for civil union.
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Well, you seem to be trying to get a grip on your vocabulary, so I'll play along to assist your education (hint: your opening statement is redundant). And the word "they" means - last time I checked - someone other than myself. My friends went to a party and THEY had a good time. THEY are canceling the Oscars this year. THEY say, peanut butter is healthy. See, people like you victimize society by claiming victim status, always looking for an opportunity to BE a victim. You're a pig.
2. You, yet again, failed to determine the purpose of my response so I'll dumb it down a few more notches. You were endorsing civil union, not marriage to same-sex couples, thus the implied unequal treatment, and not because you used the word "they" per se. Sigh. Bring on the ad hominems and try again :)
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1) Tangent and diatribe are closely enough synonymous that it's careless to use them along the same objective.
2) Stop being defensive. Gays cry "equal rights! equal rights!" yet, when they are offered equal rights under a Civil Union, this is no longer good enough. To DEMAND the term "marriage" lends strongly to the notion that gays want the government to NORMALIZE homosexuality, to mainstream gays, to relieve gays of their lifelong battle with shame. Can't gays stick to equal rights?
Thank you summersonset -- you are the only poster along this thread who's lent any light to our dialogue. I was not aware that Civil Union was not interchangeable with the governmental term "marriage". I believed that there are too many religious rights, practicing rights, to be compromised under the term "marriage". So why not let it be understood that Civil Union bears all the same rights as Marriage. And churches and religious sects can remain without offense? (I'm seeking a valid view).
anotherfootinthehill. The point is that if you make CU fully similar in rights, just not the word marriage, then its separate but equal, and I believe a court ruled some years ago, this is not allowed in the US. So there is a problem. Also, why have 2 forms when they are the same, for separate groups. You basically create apartheid and discrimination. Because if I would be religious and gay and wanna marry, then I cant because I can only CU. Also, there are religious groups ...(cont)
(cont) that do marry or wanna marry gays, so if you make it separate, then you also take rights away from the religious that do wanna marry. Hope that was clear. I know there's a lot of fuss about this in US. But marriage is a legal contract, and there is a separation between church/state, so the religious will need to 'give in' (its not really giving in, as they never had the right to define marriage before). The religous need to understand that no rights are taken away from them.
I wanna add, that no church, when gay marriage is legalized (in eg Connecticut) has to wed gays/lesbians. The churches have freedom to do so or not and there are no legal consequences to that for churches if they dont want to.
I don tknow what you mean when you say religious freedoms are compromised under the term marriage. What freedoms do you mean?
Well, I understood that churches can lose their 'tax-exempt' status unless they bend to the governmental definition of equal rights marriage. This significantly would infringe upon the religious practices of those who, for the last thousands of years, have considered same-sex "evil". You have given me MUCH to consider, sum -- But what if a father and adult daughter now want to marry (without children)? What about a threesome marriage? Are we ready to do this to a thousands-year institution?
anotherfoolhill, thats what I explained already, but churches wont lose their tax-exempt status if gay marriage is legalized. You can look into this more through Google. I know on Prop8 this lie was used to win votes for the 'yes' voters (meaning, no to gay marriage). Its a lie. The countries where there is gay marriage, in none of them is father/daughter marriage allowed, not 3-some marriage. But this has nothing to do with homosexuality, because those examples are heterosexual marriages.
I understand that from what youve learend about homosexuality or have come to believe about homosexuality is what you truly believe. But if you wanna impose that on others, you impose on their lifes and freedom. Your freedom stops there.Its when I would say a muslim cant marry a christian and wanting that to be made law. We all know, this is not possible (and not that I dont want them to marry, its just an example). You will have to deal with your issues towards samesex, you cant control others.
I live in a country were we've had SSMarriage almost 9 years now. Sure there were (and some still are- 15% minority) against it. But most of them know, and also even say, their beliefs cant infringe on other people's basic rights, like equality protection, anti-discrimination, the right to marriage for a person. Thats how basic democracy works. You can think its evil? Fine, But you cant impose that on others legally. Thats how we live life in Holland.
Thanks for all you've taught me here, summersonset. And actually, I am gay. My lover and I have adopted two children, we own real-estate together, and we are each other's Power of Attorney and Medical PoA. Of course we sleep together and love each other. But even as a gay person, I still think that the principles of marriage belong to the sacred predominant nature of mankind's survival -- penis and vagina, and the promise of posterity. But you've been really cool, sum - I like you. Thanks!
anotherfoolonthehill, I had no idea. You do realize that mankinds survival is threatened by the overpopulation, and the damage it does to this planet, and is becoming a real problem? Keep this in mind, heterosexuality is already leading to the downfall of this planet. Glad I was of help!
OMG! Now homosexuals are the answer to saving the world. You usually dont talk that stupid. There would be no homosexuals if it werent for heterosexuals giving birth. There would also be a few less people if gays would not do in vitro fertilization too. They need to do their part. If it were possible, would you be for parents opting for abortion upon finding out the baby had homosexual genes? I dont think overpopulation is the problem. I think its greed and government waste of trillions.
I was saying that because first, it is true (we'll grow to 9 billion people by 2050!), second, because there is nothing sacred about heterosexuality in itself. If it was so sacred, please explain the need for abortion, the abuse of children, the high amount of abused children forced to go in fostercare, the high percentage of childmolesters among heterosexuals,, high divorce rates in USA, high percentage of children raised by one parent, I could go on. There is abortion BECAUSE of heterosexuals.
Every person on earth could fit side by side in Texas, one of our U.S. states. There is so much more land on this planet that population is not a problem. It's a combination of many factors. People cause the problems such as pollution, food shortage, war, etc. This would include gays. Almost all AIDS is caused by unbridled behavior causing their own death. 70% dying of AIDS in the U.S. are homosexuals. drugs accounts for much of the rest. Why not reduces the population and stop AIDS research?
We do not need abortion. We need responsibility. But people being responsible is not going to happen. I had one child because that is all I could afford with my lifestyle. Not so with may others (especially with blacks see statistics). The ONLY safe sex is no sex. I know a girl right now who has two children; both times she was on birth control. And two of my gay friends are now dead at a young age one due to AIDS. Killing people, especially babies, is not the answer. Responsibility is
Look up - Crime in the United States - on Wikipedia and also check the sources where that info came from, including the FBI statistics. It is sad that blacks have the worst statistics of all races. (abortion, murder, rape, prison population, etc.) But the racist black leaders like Jackson and Sharpton like it that way - it keeps them in power. They need new positive leaders. Thank God for Obama and leaders like him. Alan Keyes is another good leader too. But it starts at home with the parents.
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Your meaning here is very muddled, though I can tell you are very fixed in your opinion. Do I either of us have anything to gain by continuing? I don't think so. You are dismissed. (Next time, bring a valid counterpoint).
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There is no such thing as a lesbian. They just haven't been with the right man. Gimme 15 minutes with them and they wont even remember what a lesbian is. Only the hot ones though, not the butch's. Stallion Baby!!!!!!!! Round the world we goooooo!
Yeah, homosexuality is about sexual and emotional attraction, so a lesbian would never feel attracted to have sex with you, whether you have a big or a small dick.
small minded people that include animals and children with homosexuals really need to get a reality check these are all very different issues. Gay people are consenting adults who CHOOSE to be together and can have long term loving relationships! gay and or bi people are not just about sex!
Straight, gay and bi isn't exclusive to adults. People discover what they like or who they are long before they're 18 in most cases. There are gay and bi teens (and no they're not just confused or experimenting). Also, consent doesn't really play a role in it... let me explain myself before you freak out. Consent refers to the sex acts, however no consent is required to BE straight, bi or gay. The labels are about who you like, not what you do.
Stupidity is a product of our environment - just as homosexuality is. If one wants to be a homo, unfortunately it's legal in this country. If one can't see the homosexual agenda then that one just may be the STUPID FOLKS you speak of.
But do they really "become" straight or have they just ceased same sex behavior and are attempting to be with the opposite sex to fit in? Just because they're suddenly only having sex with the opposite gender doesn't mean they're straight. It's not about behavior. What you do isn't what makes you straight, bi or gay... it's about what's going on in your head. I'm willing to bet that a true change of who you've been attracted to in your mind is extremely rare (if it happens at all).
Kinky, loosing her marbles. What are you talking about. Why wouldn't it be a choice? It often is, for women at least. Meredith Baxter is a terrific actress, and that's that.
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It is a choice, I know that. Let's see - three failed marriages to men so let's try women now! That is a sickness. But most of Hollywood has a sickness that is spilling over to our kids. Pretty sad. There is an agenda out there to spread this homosexual crap and make everyone except it as normal. It can't work because it's not normal. Gays have a higher than average suicide rate because subconsciously they know it's not right. Do you think the media would exploit a gay who became straight?
Nature ánd culture thrive on variety. A higher than average suicide rate is caused by rejection and hatred, you know that. And you know Baxter came out after tabloids threatened to 'out' her. She wanted to own her own story. We may identify people who 'change' as bisexual. Nothing the matter. Get rid of violence, weapons and hatred: then your kids will be fine.
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Rejection and hatred may be two reasons for suicide, but they are not the only reasons. A wealthy man who lost much of his money commits suicide just as a poor man might for not having any money. Guilt can cause suicide as is the case with some gays. A bisexual is someone confused about their sexual identity. All laws govern behavior. NAMBLA wants sex with children. Some have no problem having sex with animals. The line that we draw at behavior keeps changing. Who decides how we behave?
A bi person isn't confused, they aren't someone who "can't make a choice"... they honestly do like both genders. If it's possible to like one or the other, why isn't it possible to like both at the same time? That they're "confused" is just a mistaken notion you share with many.
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If what you say is true, then a person needs discipline. If I am married to a person, I discipline my self not to commit adultery - because adultery is wrong - even if I have feelings for another. I'm sure you even have a line you draw when it comes to right and wrong. Many draw that line at homosexual behavior. We can discipline ourselves whether or not the law allows something.
Gay and bi people "need" discipline? I'm assuming your belief that gay or bisexual behavior is wrong is based on religious beliefs. If so, fine. I myself am Christian so I know where you might be coming from. I've learned in church that being gay or bi isn't a sin, it's only the acts a person commits which are sins. Anyhow, the point I wanted to get to is: What if we're wrong? Nobody has proven God exists. So if He doesn't, then the notion of homosexuality being wrong or a sin is false.
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If there is no God then murder isn't wrong either. Nor is pedophilia, bestiality, or anything. There is no right or wrong at all then. You are right, thinking about being gay is not a sin - committing the act is the sin. If I think about robbing a bank, it's different than if I rob a bank. God exists - people just don't accept the evidence.
God and religion isn't the source of all morals. To end someone's life is clearly wrong, we don't need scripture to tell us this. On "being gay" I think you missed my point, so let me clarify some facts. "Being gay (or bi)" isn't about what you do, it's a label for your attractions (a mental process). Anyone can have sex with the same gender if they chose, but that isn't what makes them gay. Only actions are sins. One can't think about being gay. I'm with you about God, I believe He exists.
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Am I a bank robber if I "think" about robbing a bank. No. Can I say this; "Anyone can rob a bank - that isn't what makes him a bank robber, It's only if he thinks he's a bank robber"? (even if he never has robbed a bank). And God is the source of all morals if he did in fact create us. I questioned God and his existence before, and that can be good. He understands. It will cause you to seek him out even more. I've now come to the conclusion that only the fool says in his heart there is no God.
You're bank robbing analogy here is a faulty, it's not the same thing. You have to actually rob a bank to be one. That's NOT the case with a gay or bi person. I'll explain again... straight, gay and Bi is a label for a type of attraction (key word being "attraction"), it isn't a label for actions you do. People do not need God in their life to have morals. Many athiests actually behave better than some Christians. I believe in God strongly, but I recognize His existence hasn't been proven.
I wish there could be a law that forbids people like you to express such ignorance and that you're forced control over your own ignorance, Im sure it wont be difficult for you, it will make this world a better place to live for sure.
A bisexual is someone who doesn't limit him- or herself to one or the other sex. More power to them. Sexual preference is fluid in many cases, if it isn't supressed. Let's leave kids and animals out of the discussion, you well know that is an entirely different issue.
Why leave kids and animals out - it all has to do with wrongful behavior and discipline? You think homosexuality is not wrong, while a farm boy thinks animals are ok. So you, yourself, even have a line to draw at human behavior. I just draw it at homosexuality.
ihsrc, having sex with an animal is considered rape, as is sex with a child, by definition. Sex between homosexuals is not, as it is consensual. Also, the large majority of animal and child molesters are straight. So, I could conclude heterosexuality is immoral.
No, it does nót all have to do with wrongful behavior and discipline. I explained already why I dispute your point. You try to bring in entirely different issues (clue: relationships in which the power dynamics are radically different and unequal - even for the law, so it isn't just arbitrary, like you try to suggest), to muddle the discussion.
The law caters to the majorities whims. Most of the time when the majority accepts something, it becomes law. That doesn't make it right - only legal by that cultures standards. You try and pretend that your issue is somehow different than any other similar issue. You try and set the limits on where we can go with behavior. Even if one is born with certain inclinations - must we accept it? The disturbed man who thinks he is a woman - does that make him a woman? Are there no absolutes out there?
ihsrc, give me a good reason to not accept if a person is born gay or born a transgender? And why do you need to draw an absolute. You know that homosexuality in many countries is legal and in several there is gay marriage. To homosexuality there is no absolute, as this world shows.
There are cultures too, as you know, where homosexuals get the death sentence. (I'm against that). How does an atheist judge moral issues. How do you know right from wrong? I am sure even you draw the line somewhere regarding human behavior, even some consensual behaviors. For instance, a agreed upon fist fight to the death, a gun duel. asphyxiation, self mutilation? Lesser ones that society doesn't allow, like prostitution, drug use, plural marriages. I know you have a line drawn somewhere.
ihsrc,I think in gross lines you can say I judge morals by the damage that is done, to another or to oneself. You give good examples. Im against fighting to death/gunduel/asphyxiation and selfharm, as Im against drugs (harddrugs), and about prostitution and I wanna explain the last one, Im mostly against it because most of the women do it out of a traumatic childhood, and I see prostituting themselves as a way of selfharm. But there are women who do it for okay reasons for themselves (cont)
It isn't my issue; it's yours. I have no problem with either homosexuality or bisexuality (or heterosexuality), as long as nobody gets hurt. As for absolutes, there are enough of these around to satisfy my need. I don't see what is so special about absolutes anyway, but it's an interesting point. As for gender, if we hadn't these rigid genderroles, people could just be who they are without 'gender dysphoria'. Allow for greater variety, and voila. Problem solved.
You draw the line at getting hurt - even if they agree on torturing themselves? How about "who we are" IS the gender role. There is nothing rigid about it, it's natural. Someone else has changed the way it was. You would not want the variety which some are willing to take it. A line must be drawn somewhere. I'm sure even you see the need for that.
ihsrc, about the genderroles I have a question. If its natural for a child to do stuff that presumably doesnt fit the role (simple example-girl playing with car toys), is it then moral to force them to not play with cartoys and ignore their nature? I think its not okay, because you then harm the child. I think you would say its okay, because you stick to these genderoles, ignoring a child's personality. Correct?
That is a very narrow view of a gender role. First, girls drive cars so what would be wrong with playing with a car toy? I have no problem with women driving big rigs, or cranes. But a man and a woman fit together like a hand in glove, so to speak. The sperm and egg were meant for each other. That's nature. But if my child is stealing her friends toys, then it would be moral to force them not to steal. Because the act is wrong. It didn't even "hurt" the other kid, but it is wrong.
ihsrc, I was just giving an example. In your opinion man/woman fit like a glove, but whats natural for you, man/woman, isnt natural for me, its really that simple. Did you know in nature there is also a-sexual procreation? Stealing is actually harmful to the one stolen from, and that if I do it, I harm others and myself, too (because I harm the other). This is how a child develops empathy btw.
For the human species it is unnatural to chose a same sex partner for life. It is the nature of a dog to bark. If I heard a dog talk, it would be against it's nature. Because he has a basic animal instinct, the dog may hump another animal, but he doesn't pair up with a same sex partner for life. If being gay is genetic, then it must be past down genetically. So our parents and grand parents etc. had gay genes also, and most never knew it. An asexual insect can reproduce on its own. Humans can't.
ihrsc, I think youre so afraid of your own bisexual feelings you need to control other people who are bisexual or homosexual, and deny that reality, so you can have a peaceful mind. Do you realize this is a selfish behavior? In nature there are plenty of examples of animals homosexually partnering for life, you can Google for that.
Not so at all. I am just thoroughly convinced that there is a God over all things. And he has a certain and complete loving will for his creation. Your theory of homosexual behavior has many holes in it. A fallen nature fits more with the evidence. You can have no real idea where to draw the line with human behavior without a God above us. When I control my child for his own good, I do not consider it selfish. Just caring. That's what God does.
You can really decide for yourself how you consider homosexuality, God etc, its not my life, its yours. One thing though. If your child is gay and you tell him, or her, its wrong, unnatural and more bad stuff about something they cant change, then youre abusing your child, youre damaging your child. I really hope you realize that.
And if homosexuals are a product of our environment and a fallen nature, then not correcting them will damage my children - possibly forever. And that's a long time. I really hope you realize that.
The fact is many have "changed" from the homosexual lifestyle. It is a complete cop out to say they were never gay.
ihsrc, you should watch the movie 'Prayers for Bobby', you can see the damage attitudes similar to yours do to a gay child. And its based on a true story. The American Psychological Association (amongst others) has stated that reparative therapy, or any therapy aimed at 'healing' homosexuality is psychologically damaging to the recipient and can have long lasting effects. Your choice.
Reparative therapy for homosexuals, if voluntarily entered into without coercion, does work. Jewish Psychiatrist, Jeffrey Satinover, said he believes homosexuality is potentially changeable, not for everybody, but for people who are highly motivated. Many PhDs disagree with the APA findings. There are conferences where you can meet many people who have left the lifestyle and changed their sexuality. Those that want to change should be allowed to seek professional help to do so, do you agree?
No, it doesnt work, and Satinover is from an organization against homosexuality, NARTH, and they are biased. He's not recognised as a psychotherapist, has no legit license. And not many PhD's disagree with APA, I know they are all lies, Ive researched all that a while ago when fundamentalists brought these false arguments to the table. You really are one too. Its a shame I though somewhere you had acknowledged your own bisexuality if even for a bit, but you havent. (cont)
(cont) there is no such thing as changing a sexual orientation, the ex-gay movements even admit to that themselves, they only teach to repress, which causes many people a lot of damage and many turn back to gay life after years realizing they were deluded by ex-gay and extensive psychotherapy to undo the damage. Youre very biased and the fact you bring up all this bullshit made me decide to not talk to you further. I gave you a little chance, but I was wrong. You dont care about love nor people.
One more thing. How does stealing hurt anyone? Surely not physically. If you speak of emotional pain, or even monetary, you open up a big can of worms. Isn't taxes a form of theft? Isn't a broken relationship emotional pain? It doesn't matter that stealing is harmful, it is wrong. Abortion is killing a baby even if the whole world thinks it's ok. Would you say that it would be immoral - if we could determine a gay gene - to abort only homosexual babies? I think abortion is the ultimate harm.
Yes, I draw the line at getting hurt. People don't live to please you or me. People are by nature cultural. We are an intelligent species. Why should things be exactly how yóu want them to be? I wouldn't choose half the things other people elect to do. And?
You and I are different, and your neighbor is different too. So what? Let's worry about something else.
Did you choose to be straight? Does a person choose to love chocolate or hate squash? No, all of these things just are... they're just there as part of them. And there is no secret Hollywood "agenda", those who are Bi or Gay don't gather as a group to come up with a plan on how to make everyone else like them. They're just being honest about who they like rather than hiding it. The reason some commit suicide is because of having to deal with people like you who shun and hate them. @Neilfan12
Of course I choose to be straight. I know gay people whom I could indulge with if I so desired. I choose not to. It's called discipline. Whether I love chocolate or not is missing the point. I still have the choice to partake of something or not to partake of something. If I love chocolate, yet chocolate is bad for me, then I discipline myself not to partake of it. And where did I say that I shun or hate gays? Obviously there is a lot more to the gay agenda than you know.
Can you pinpoint for me at what exact point in your life you CHOSE to become straight? On what day did you decide you were only attracted to the opposite sex? Having never had the desire to be with the same sex doesn't mean you chose heterosexuality. So for you there's no need for discipline in this area. You say imply that being bi or gay is bad for you. Exactly how does whom you're attracted to harm a person? And again, there is no "gay agenda" out there. Nobody's seeking to convert others.
Can a gay pinpoint the time he became gay? There is no pinpoint of time. There was a first time I could have been with a gay person - I chose not to because it was wrong. I have thought about it before, just as I thought about robbing a bank. I chose not to because it's wrong. Is it natural for kids raised on a farm to sexually fondle animals? If they do, is it wrong? Who says so? Do we want that behavior to continue? The agenda isn't so much trying to convert, as it is forcing acceptance.
Did you feel emotionally and sexually attracted to this gay person, ihsrc? Because if not, your whole argumentation is false. And if you did, youre gay and in the closet.
Why would I have to be gay and in the closet? How about straight, with a nature to do something wrong. I've also thought of adultery too, yet chose not to do either one. We all have inclinations to do something wrong, whether it's sexual or physical, like rob a bank or commit acts of violence. What we lack is discipline and proper guidance. The churches have not been a lot of help in that area either.
In reality there is only Straight or Gay. The word "bisexual' is a modern smokescreen to make the homosexuals feel better about themselves. A person is a homosexual if he has same sex - whether or not he has relations with the opposite sex. It doesn't matter if I am married to the opposite sex - if I have same sex, now I am a homosexual adulterer. The action is what makes you a homosexual - not whether you thought about it. I'm not a bank robber till I rob the bank.
Sorry, but you're outright wrong on this one. There isn't just straight and gay, bisexuality is real. It isn't a state of confusion or indecision. I can state with certainty that many really are attracted to both genders. Why is that so hard to believe? Logically if one can be attracted to one or the other they can also like both genders at once. It's not sinking in is it? You're not getting these labels aren't based on what we do. Check the facts.
Shilo, I think there are people who dont wanna believe bisexuality exists because they then have to accept they might have bisexual feelings themselves ;)
I don't deny the feelings of some people, but again, it's the agenda trying to smokescreen the issue. You say you are a Christian - then the "fact" is, a homosexual is someone who has sexual relations with the same sex, period, regardless of whether they have opposite sex. It is the world that made the third class called "bisexual". God said otherwise. God may be real, and he may not be. So, you have a choice. You can live as if your God is real - or live as if he is not. Is this sinking in?
It's not a smokescreen. Bisexuality is real. Yes, I am a Christian (I don't just "say" I am). You're implying that I'm not a "real" or "good" one because of what I've been saying. And you're wrong about what makes a person bi or gay... it's NOT the acts themselves it's the mental process. Just as a straight person who has never had sex is still straight, so is a bi or gay person who has never acted on it. The world may have created the labels, but they didn't the desires (bi or otherwise).
I know the desire for both sexes exist. As Christians, we call that a fallen nature. With regard to Christianity, there is not even the term straight or gay. It is just living in Gods will or not. The homosexual act is not his will. I never mean to imply anything about you. Only God knows what is in all our hearts. And I never will say that a gay or lesbian person is not going to heaven. Only God knows that too. That's my religion. I do believe God has the best way for us to live though.
You left out Bi again. Your first sentence to me sounded like you might be acknowledging it, but as you went on it sounded like you're only talking about straight and gay. ANY sex outside of marriage (be it straight, bi or gay) is not God's will, I agree that the act is a sin. But it's not the act that makes a person gay. Gay & lesbian is the same thing, I myself don't use the label "lesbian" for gay women. People of all 3 attractions will be going to Heaven and that's not just my belief.
If you want to call a homosexual who also has opposite sex, a bisexual, then let's narrow it down and do so. That's ok. God only sees the fallen nature of man. He sees the sinner and the saint. We can classify our sins and try to justify them - Christ died for all of them. I will use your term and say there are "bisexual" people, but they are still committing the homosexual act that the God of the bible is against (as he is with all sin). We are not defined by what we struggle with. Just sinners
ihrsc, have you learnt from a young age on youre born a sinner? Also, bisexuals also have heterosexual sex (not all bisexuals have though), so are they then a bit of less sinners than homosexuals, logic would say that is the case. Is there any ranking as to sins?
A gay person isn't attracted to the opposite gender, so why would a gay man be with a woman unless he's trying to hide his homosexuality? A gay person having sex with the opposite gender isn't Bi, they're still gay. In order to be Bi a person must actually be attracted to and want to be with both. Why do you persist in believing Bisexuality doesn't exist, that it's only a state of confusion? A bi person is NOT a gay in denial. When they're with the same gender, they haven't become gay.
ihsrc, so if Im getting you right, you had a samesex attraction once to a gay person (?), then chose to not act upon it, and now youre struggling with how to label yourself? You say youre straight, and it feels to me you put much effort in denying youre actually bisexual, but cant be because God condems that and you had to make a choice and chose straight so God will still love you?
Part 2: At least you're now acknowledging the possibility that God may not exist. As I've said, I strongly believe that He and Christ do indeed exist and are very real. How do you know how I live? I do live as if I believe God is real, every day I do. And what did you mean by "God said otherwise"? God hasn't defined who is or isn't straight, He's only said whom we should have relations with or marry.
I do not acknowledge the possibility that God doesn't exist. That is a nonsensical absurdity to me. Now, trying to find the truth is the hard part. I tend to believe the bible, for the most part, and my Church that has been here for 2000 years. They passed down the traditions that Christ taught. God has said that we all have sinned - and defined what sin is. God did not create Adam and Eve with "bisexual" feelings. I have a fallen nature that I struggle with. Not that I am what I struggle with.
ihsrc, well, I commend you for saying you struggle with bisexual feelings you once had (or maybe sometimes still have) and *are* honest about it. I dont see many people who believe in God as strongly as you do and condemn themselves for it, be honest about themselves in such areas. If you want my advice (and maybe you dont), accept those feelings of yourself, it really doesnt make you any lesser of a person and I hope you can really see this. (cont)
I don't condemn myself or others. I see mankind in a spiritually fallen state, all inclined to sin in one way or another. I don't see homosexuality any worse than adultery or any other mortal sin. All can be forgiven - and God understands all things. I do accept my feelings as in a fallen nature, as the God of the bible said. And I see kindness in you and others who don't see things the way I do, so I'm sure I will see you and these others there on that great day.
ihsrc, I'd love to meet on that great day. However, indeed, Im an atheist lol, so I wont go to heaven (nor hell). but I get your message. It was nice talking to you, and to Shilo and I learned a few new things. Gotta go now, may be back later. Have a good day all :)
summersonset, please don't take offense by what I say here in this reply, it's just my belief and that of my church... but even atheists will be going to Heaven too. People of all faiths (or lack of) have a shot at getting in... Heaven isn't exclusive to Christians. Now I'm sure ihsrc and others will disagree, but that's fine. They're free to believe what they want just as we all are. One day we'll find out who was correct, but lets all just love each other the same in the meantime.
You can't be sure what I believe because you misunderstand the Catholic Church. There will be atheists in heaven, as well as members of most religions. I converted to the Catholic Church from the Protestant religion I was raised with because the Catholic Church had the best theology regarding tolerance of others. I had to look past what I had been taught about Catholics and studied them for myself. And I still believe even Protestants will be there, ha ha.
Shilo, I dont feel offended at all you telling me I will be going to heaven too. Eventhough I dont believe in heaven (nor hell), its an expression of love, and that I really do understand. Thanks.
Being gay or bi isn't something God will have to forgive us of, it's only acts we do in life which we must atone for. If a gay (or bi) person goes through life never having had sex with someone, there will be nothing for God to forgive them of in that area.
Christianity doesn't classify a person by what he or she thinks they are. Does your denomination? He is not a 'gay' person, or a 'straight' person for that matter. He is just a 'person' - with inclinations to sin. He is not a 'gay' person going through life never having having had sex. He is a person going through life with a sinful nature, inclined with unnatural tendencies that he must discipline himself to overcome, like all sin. You are right, if he doesn't act, there is nothing to forgive.
But homosexuality is not a sin. Im very opposed to the idea and teaching of children they are born sinners. That is a form of abuse. Calling yourself a sinner, I feel, is a form of selfabuse. Homosexuality is completely harmless, but then its said, by you, a gay person will be a forever sinner if he/she acts on it their whole life, and wont be forgiven etc. How sadistic is that. Who wants to teach that to any person? Its very cruel and I think you dont realize how cruel it really is.
If I teach my child from birth the difference between right and wrong - yet in his youth he rebels and does just what I taught him not to do - where does that rebellion come from? (smart mouth disrespect, stealing candy, hitting other kids etc.) We call it a sinful nature. What do you call it?
That is your opinion that Homosexuality is harmless. One could argue - and they have (nambla) - that child sex is harmless. They have doctors backing them up with their beliefs too.
ihsrc, I doint call it sinful, its natural childs behavior that needs correction and teaching. I dont use the word sin for that, its ridden with guilt and judgement. . I dont agree with nambla because sex between children and adults (rape and abuse) isnt harmless, thats where I draw the line. It damages children and thats an understatement. I dont even understand why this comparison is made. Its obvious homosexuality harms noone.
What you called the "natural child's behavior" is what we call a sinful nature. The inclination to do wrong. You just use a different name. Why do you have a problem with guilt? One who does wrong should feel guilty about it. The law calls a criminal guilty and pronounces judgment on him. Guilt can be a good thing and keep someone from doing bad things.
The whole point is that people can call homosexuality a sin, meaning its a bad thing. I dont agree with that as I dont feel Im a bad person or am bad for living according to my nature. And I wasnt raised using the word. For me the word has a real bad connotation. I dont use if for criminals either. I have a problem with guilt when its unnecessarily added to something, eg homosexuality. I do believe though that guilt is an indication of a cosncience which is needed to learn things.
(cont)And if you condemn this in yourself, you will condemn others too, and thats whats been happening in this debate and why people, I myself for sure, react strongly to what you say. Im not living my life to condemn myself (nor others) for who I am. I consider that not to be love and not taking good care of myself, its selfdestructive IMO to do that. But to each their own. Just be aware when you condemn others because you condemn yourself, you cause pain to others.
Oh, so you're Catholic. I don't believe that we all must suffer for any sin committed by Adam or Eve, nor that theirs is passed on to each of us. Everyone's sin is their own, each person only has to answer for themselves... their own actions. I don't believe we're born into sin, I think a baby is a clean slate. But do each of us sin in life as we grow? Yes, the only perfect (non-sining) person was Christ.
You misunderstand the Catholic Church, as so many frequently do. When Adam and Eve sinned, we inherited the fallen nature. That is why we are inclined to sin, and we do sin. We will only answer for our own individual sins. We can't say that society said something was ok, therefore we won't answer for that. Societies come and go, but God will always be here. Yes, a baby is without sin and must be taught Gods will (and be baptized). What told you I was Catholic? I actually teach it.
Then why do Catholic's baptize infants? Surely a person who hasn't had a chance to sin yet doesn't need baptism yet. I say "yet" because we all do eventually. Even Christ who didn't need baptism due to being perfect got baptized, He did it to lead by example and show its importance. Why do you baptize with sprinkling? I've wondered that. When it's done in the Bible it's by immersion in the water. You said your church had been here for 2,000 years etc., so I assumed you're Catholic.
People seem to think only in terms of straight & gay, like you just have here... they forget about the middle ground (being Bi). You talk about being "straight with a nature to do something wrong" by this I assume you mean being mainly attracted to the opposite gender, but with some desires for the same gender (those thoughts you fight). Guess what? That's bisexuality. If you're having occasional desires to actually be with the same gender you're not straight.
In reality there is only Straight or Gay. The word "bisexual' is a modern smokescreen to make the homosexuals feel better about themselves. A person is a homosexual if he has same sex - whether or not he has relations with the opposite sex. It doesn't matter if I am married to the opposite sex - if I have same sex, now I am a homosexual adulterer. The action is what makes you a homosexual - not whether you thought about it. A Christian should know that. There is no "bisexual" in the bible.
ihsrc, you still havent answered my question, did you feel emotionally and sexually attracted to this gay person you knew? Its not the action that makes one homosexual, it are the feelings and attractions to the samesex that defines it. If you would never have straight sex again, would you still say youre straight? Or before you had straight sex, did you feel you were straight? Thats what its about,
Good points there summersonset. Does a straight person who has never had sex consider themselves straight? Of course they do. As you and I have said, it's not about what we do. Physical acts aren't what makes a person straight, bi or gay. Some people just don't get it. @Neilfan12
Shilo, yes many people dont want to get it. And that homosexuality is exactly the same as heterosexuality, and bisexuality, the ONLY difference is with whom you fall in love and have sex. For the rest its ALL the same. Its SO simple.
she should have came out along time ago. mabye it would have been a little bit more easier for her.
Melinda1203 2 years ago
meredith baxter really suck. her career is fading out and the only thing she can come up with a a stupid coming out. quite frankly, WHO CARES???
mistermustang2005 2 years ago
My reaction is about like that celebrity who slept with her dad for years and years.
1) I regret hearing about it
2) Do we really have to hear this stuff
3) Why do they think we want to hear it
4) Get off the stage boooo
MountAthos 2 years ago
Gay rights? lol. So sick of gays trying to get us to accept them for being gay so they feel less guilty about their pervertedness. Please.
MamaMia4545 2 years ago
So what you're actually saying, is that gays should stop asking for equal rights, so you can feel less guilty about your hate?
ObscurityMiss86 1 year ago
i'm sure all woman are lesbian
bluewhale18 2 years ago
@bluewhale18 yes of course they are...due to the fact that the majority of men in the world are fucking assholes.
Tigerbos 1 year ago
WHAT?!?! Now this is shocking. I don't know why, but Meridith Baxter is what I call and unlikely lesbian. Good for her for being real!
fannysmack 2 years ago
I meant our society HAS NOT been harmed.
suzieq0452 2 years ago 2
Thanks for THAT correction.
In Australia, all the legal and financial stuff is equal, but 'marriage' is legal in only one territory. The push is on here.
One day soon we hope ...
tippngthevelvet 2 years ago
Well Gays can legally marry in Canada and our Society has been Harmed .The Only People Harming Canada are the Harper CONservatives and the STUPID "canadians" that support the Evangelical FAUX Christian FAR RIGHT. I knew that they shouldn't have allowed FOX "NEWS" to broadcast here.LMAO.
suzieq0452 2 years ago 2
Poor, poor soul,soooo sad:(
TheElectro2009 2 years ago
I'm not surprised at all. I always knew it
86am 2 years ago
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One of t.v's best mother is a lesbo! I am so confused about this shit!
falsepride 2 years ago
what was the day you set aside your homosexual feelings and tendencies..... and CHOSE to be strait? we pay 100% taxes but get half the rights. i have been in an LTR for 10 years now, longer than both of my brothers marriges put together. i do think gays need to get rid of the word marriage for now, to get what is most important. this issue will require baby steps to get to a point of TRUE equality. it is UNamerican to deny or take away rights to gays (or anyone) with our constitution."4all?"
THECURELOST13 2 years ago 2
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I LOVE Meredith Baxter & wish her ALL the BEST; but one has to wonder if the change in her sexual orientation occurred after she was on "Jenny Craig" too long or had one too many "Little Debbie" late night snacks!
mavrek47 2 years ago
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she's as obvious a lesbian now as she was in "family ties". she's as obvious a lesbian as that crotch-licker chick "Mrs. Darcey" in "Married With Children"
News Flash - OPRAH is a lesbian too!
Sheeze, what's up with middle America? IT'S EASY to spot the homos! I remember when my mid-western friends thought Adam Lambert wasn't gay! HE WAS OBVIOUSLY into penis from the word go!
Yuck, lesbians freak me out.
rtardbox 2 years ago
I didn't know Meredith Baxter was a COMMUNIST, but the person who wrote Palin's book says that if you are gay YOU ARE AUTOMATICALLY A COMMUNIST!
DillonX 2 years ago
Jesus was a communist.
FatoDrunkoAndoStupid 2 years ago
Who the hell cares lady. My God, STF and keep who's sticking what in you private. If she likes to fuck donkeys are we supposed to know that to? What a self important cunt.
maximusdecimus888 2 years ago
shes great.
JO45YOU 2 years ago 2
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Homosexuality is not something you choose; it's something you discover. However, they should settle for Civil Union, and leave "Marriage" alone.
anotherfoolonthehlLL 2 years ago
@anotherfoolonthehlLL "they"
superc 2 years ago
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I don't get you. Is "they" a derogatory remark? You can't say black anymore, you can't say Muslim, and you can't say "they" anymore. We can no longer refer to people? We are, after all, talking about "they" who are gay and want to be married. Am I misunderstanding you? I don't want to misinterpret you.
anotherfoolonthehlLL 2 years ago
@anotherfoolonthehlLL You don't want to misinterpret me yet u tangentially went in2 this absurd diatribe.
You just reinforced my point of segregating the gays & considering them as 2nd class citizens by the govt. "They" file taxes as SSM while straight couples file as M. When "they" choose 2 marry some Scandinavian native, their significant other would not enjoy the same benefit of str8s becoming a US citizen when they marry, among others, so I guess "they" should just "settle" for civil union.
superc 2 years ago
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Well, you seem to be trying to get a grip on your vocabulary, so I'll play along to assist your education (hint: your opening statement is redundant). And the word "they" means - last time I checked - someone other than myself. My friends went to a party and THEY had a good time. THEY are canceling the Oscars this year. THEY say, peanut butter is healthy. See, people like you victimize society by claiming victim status, always looking for an opportunity to BE a victim. You're a pig.
anotherfoolonthehlLL 2 years ago
1. Identify which caused the redundancy.
2. You, yet again, failed to determine the purpose of my response so I'll dumb it down a few more notches. You were endorsing civil union, not marriage to same-sex couples, thus the implied unequal treatment, and not because you used the word "they" per se. Sigh. Bring on the ad hominems and try again :)
superc 2 years ago
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1) Tangent and diatribe are closely enough synonymous that it's careless to use them along the same objective.
2) Stop being defensive. Gays cry "equal rights! equal rights!" yet, when they are offered equal rights under a Civil Union, this is no longer good enough. To DEMAND the term "marriage" lends strongly to the notion that gays want the government to NORMALIZE homosexuality, to mainstream gays, to relieve gays of their lifelong battle with shame. Can't gays stick to equal rights?
anotherfoolonthehlLL 2 years ago
Civil union is not equal rights, it lacks 1000+ rights from marriage.
summersonset 2 years ago
Thank you summersonset -- you are the only poster along this thread who's lent any light to our dialogue. I was not aware that Civil Union was not interchangeable with the governmental term "marriage". I believed that there are too many religious rights, practicing rights, to be compromised under the term "marriage". So why not let it be understood that Civil Union bears all the same rights as Marriage. And churches and religious sects can remain without offense? (I'm seeking a valid view).
anotherfoolonthehlLL 2 years ago
anotherfootinthehill. The point is that if you make CU fully similar in rights, just not the word marriage, then its separate but equal, and I believe a court ruled some years ago, this is not allowed in the US. So there is a problem. Also, why have 2 forms when they are the same, for separate groups. You basically create apartheid and discrimination. Because if I would be religious and gay and wanna marry, then I cant because I can only CU. Also, there are religious groups ...(cont)
summersonset 2 years ago 3
(cont) that do marry or wanna marry gays, so if you make it separate, then you also take rights away from the religious that do wanna marry. Hope that was clear. I know there's a lot of fuss about this in US. But marriage is a legal contract, and there is a separation between church/state, so the religious will need to 'give in' (its not really giving in, as they never had the right to define marriage before). The religous need to understand that no rights are taken away from them.
summersonset 2 years ago 3
I wanna add, that no church, when gay marriage is legalized (in eg Connecticut) has to wed gays/lesbians. The churches have freedom to do so or not and there are no legal consequences to that for churches if they dont want to.
I don tknow what you mean when you say religious freedoms are compromised under the term marriage. What freedoms do you mean?
summersonset 2 years ago 4
Well, I understood that churches can lose their 'tax-exempt' status unless they bend to the governmental definition of equal rights marriage. This significantly would infringe upon the religious practices of those who, for the last thousands of years, have considered same-sex "evil". You have given me MUCH to consider, sum -- But what if a father and adult daughter now want to marry (without children)? What about a threesome marriage? Are we ready to do this to a thousands-year institution?
anotherfoolonthehlLL 2 years ago
anotherfoolhill, thats what I explained already, but churches wont lose their tax-exempt status if gay marriage is legalized. You can look into this more through Google. I know on Prop8 this lie was used to win votes for the 'yes' voters (meaning, no to gay marriage). Its a lie. The countries where there is gay marriage, in none of them is father/daughter marriage allowed, not 3-some marriage. But this has nothing to do with homosexuality, because those examples are heterosexual marriages.
summersonset 2 years ago 2
I understand that from what youve learend about homosexuality or have come to believe about homosexuality is what you truly believe. But if you wanna impose that on others, you impose on their lifes and freedom. Your freedom stops there.Its when I would say a muslim cant marry a christian and wanting that to be made law. We all know, this is not possible (and not that I dont want them to marry, its just an example). You will have to deal with your issues towards samesex, you cant control others.
summersonset 2 years ago 2
I live in a country were we've had SSMarriage almost 9 years now. Sure there were (and some still are- 15% minority) against it. But most of them know, and also even say, their beliefs cant infringe on other people's basic rights, like equality protection, anti-discrimination, the right to marriage for a person. Thats how basic democracy works. You can think its evil? Fine, But you cant impose that on others legally. Thats how we live life in Holland.
summersonset 2 years ago 6
Thanks for all you've taught me here, summersonset. And actually, I am gay. My lover and I have adopted two children, we own real-estate together, and we are each other's Power of Attorney and Medical PoA. Of course we sleep together and love each other. But even as a gay person, I still think that the principles of marriage belong to the sacred predominant nature of mankind's survival -- penis and vagina, and the promise of posterity. But you've been really cool, sum - I like you. Thanks!
anotherfoolonthehlLL 2 years ago
anotherfoolonthehill, I had no idea. You do realize that mankinds survival is threatened by the overpopulation, and the damage it does to this planet, and is becoming a real problem? Keep this in mind, heterosexuality is already leading to the downfall of this planet. Glad I was of help!
summersonset 2 years ago
OMG! Now homosexuals are the answer to saving the world. You usually dont talk that stupid. There would be no homosexuals if it werent for heterosexuals giving birth. There would also be a few less people if gays would not do in vitro fertilization too. They need to do their part. If it were possible, would you be for parents opting for abortion upon finding out the baby had homosexual genes? I dont think overpopulation is the problem. I think its greed and government waste of trillions.
ihsrc 2 years ago
I was saying that because first, it is true (we'll grow to 9 billion people by 2050!), second, because there is nothing sacred about heterosexuality in itself. If it was so sacred, please explain the need for abortion, the abuse of children, the high amount of abused children forced to go in fostercare, the high percentage of childmolesters among heterosexuals,, high divorce rates in USA, high percentage of children raised by one parent, I could go on. There is abortion BECAUSE of heterosexuals.
summersonset 2 years ago
Every person on earth could fit side by side in Texas, one of our U.S. states. There is so much more land on this planet that population is not a problem. It's a combination of many factors. People cause the problems such as pollution, food shortage, war, etc. This would include gays. Almost all AIDS is caused by unbridled behavior causing their own death. 70% dying of AIDS in the U.S. are homosexuals. drugs accounts for much of the rest. Why not reduces the population and stop AIDS research?
ihsrc 2 years ago
We do not need abortion. We need responsibility. But people being responsible is not going to happen. I had one child because that is all I could afford with my lifestyle. Not so with may others (especially with blacks see statistics). The ONLY safe sex is no sex. I know a girl right now who has two children; both times she was on birth control. And two of my gay friends are now dead at a young age one due to AIDS. Killing people, especially babies, is not the answer. Responsibility is
ihsrc 2 years ago
what statistics?
86am 2 years ago
Look up - Crime in the United States - on Wikipedia and also check the sources where that info came from, including the FBI statistics. It is sad that blacks have the worst statistics of all races. (abortion, murder, rape, prison population, etc.) But the racist black leaders like Jackson and Sharpton like it that way - it keeps them in power. They need new positive leaders. Thank God for Obama and leaders like him. Alan Keyes is another good leader too. But it starts at home with the parents.
ihsrc 2 years ago
"people like you victimize society by claiming victim status, always looking for an opportunity to BE a victim"
Why are you talking to yourself?
You are trying to play yourself as a victim of people who are strict on wording. YOU are trying to "play the victim card".
It's like Fox News complaining about main stream media's liberal bias when they are main stream media and they don't have a liberal bias.
You do know that you exist? You are not removed from society or above society.
Theopolitical 2 years ago 3
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Your meaning here is very muddled, though I can tell you are very fixed in your opinion. Do I either of us have anything to gain by continuing? I don't think so. You are dismissed. (Next time, bring a valid counterpoint).
anotherfoolonthehlLL 2 years ago
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There is no such thing as a lesbian. They just haven't been with the right man. Gimme 15 minutes with them and they wont even remember what a lesbian is. Only the hot ones though, not the butch's. Stallion Baby!!!!!!!! Round the world we goooooo!
bigdogsdontbark 2 years ago
Yeah, homosexuality is about sexual and emotional attraction, so a lesbian would never feel attracted to have sex with you, whether you have a big or a small dick.
summersonset 2 years ago
thank you for removing yourself from the gene pool
gledalac1979 2 years ago
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2009herbie 2 years ago
I'm straight, but I love people. I have no problem with Meredith Baxter being lesbian. It must be a huge relief not having to lie out loud anymore :)
Merry pre-Christmas! :)
Henrik
KirneH004 2 years ago
Great Interview!
chadnnocal 2 years ago 2
Yes, it was a good interview wasn't it? I used to watch her on TV all the time, "Family Ties" was one of my favorite shows at the time it was on.
12Shilo12 2 years ago
small minded people that include animals and children with homosexuals really need to get a reality check these are all very different issues. Gay people are consenting adults who CHOOSE to be together and can have long term loving relationships! gay and or bi people are not just about sex!
jkmeissner 2 years ago 2
Straight, gay and bi isn't exclusive to adults. People discover what they like or who they are long before they're 18 in most cases. There are gay and bi teens (and no they're not just confused or experimenting). Also, consent doesn't really play a role in it... let me explain myself before you freak out. Consent refers to the sex acts, however no consent is required to BE straight, bi or gay. The labels are about who you like, not what you do.
12Shilo12 2 years ago
Shilo, I like what you say 'however there is no consent to BE straight, bi or gay; . Very good point.
summersonset 2 years ago
I'd luv to bone her.
iamborghini1 2 years ago
Thank you Meredith, honesty helps people.
livelifealwaystoo 2 years ago 3
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2009herbie 2 years ago
Why don't we hear from the media about the gays who become straight? Is there an agenda out there?
ihsrc 2 years ago
why don't we hear from anyone ihsrc about STUPID FOLKS becoming intelligent. or is stupidity a social or political agenda?
obamadidit2008 2 years ago 3
Stupidity is a product of our environment - just as homosexuality is. If one wants to be a homo, unfortunately it's legal in this country. If one can't see the homosexual agenda then that one just may be the STUPID FOLKS you speak of.
ihsrc 2 years ago
But do they really "become" straight or have they just ceased same sex behavior and are attempting to be with the opposite sex to fit in? Just because they're suddenly only having sex with the opposite gender doesn't mean they're straight. It's not about behavior. What you do isn't what makes you straight, bi or gay... it's about what's going on in your head. I'm willing to bet that a true change of who you've been attracted to in your mind is extremely rare (if it happens at all).
12Shilo12 2 years ago
Congrats on coming out! It's never too late to have the courage to be who you are!
derron22 2 years ago
Meredith Baxter gay , know Tiger Woods Cheats What will we do. Who cares. There human and they are the same as everybody in the world.
sandman7772 2 years ago
I admire her courage. This had to be a difficult decision. I wish her nothing but Love and Happiness!
cct41us 2 years ago
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After 3 marriages and 5 kids, I don't think she was born that way. She is just getting kinky in her old age - or loosing her marbles.
ihsrc 2 years ago
Kinky, loosing her marbles. What are you talking about. Why wouldn't it be a choice? It often is, for women at least. Meredith Baxter is a terrific actress, and that's that.
vidabo 2 years ago
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It is a choice, I know that. Let's see - three failed marriages to men so let's try women now! That is a sickness. But most of Hollywood has a sickness that is spilling over to our kids. Pretty sad. There is an agenda out there to spread this homosexual crap and make everyone except it as normal. It can't work because it's not normal. Gays have a higher than average suicide rate because subconsciously they know it's not right. Do you think the media would exploit a gay who became straight?
ihsrc 2 years ago
Nature ánd culture thrive on variety. A higher than average suicide rate is caused by rejection and hatred, you know that. And you know Baxter came out after tabloids threatened to 'out' her. She wanted to own her own story. We may identify people who 'change' as bisexual. Nothing the matter. Get rid of violence, weapons and hatred: then your kids will be fine.
vidabo 2 years ago 2
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Rejection and hatred may be two reasons for suicide, but they are not the only reasons. A wealthy man who lost much of his money commits suicide just as a poor man might for not having any money. Guilt can cause suicide as is the case with some gays. A bisexual is someone confused about their sexual identity. All laws govern behavior. NAMBLA wants sex with children. Some have no problem having sex with animals. The line that we draw at behavior keeps changing. Who decides how we behave?
ihsrc 2 years ago
A bi person isn't confused, they aren't someone who "can't make a choice"... they honestly do like both genders. If it's possible to like one or the other, why isn't it possible to like both at the same time? That they're "confused" is just a mistaken notion you share with many.
12Shilo12 2 years ago 2
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If what you say is true, then a person needs discipline. If I am married to a person, I discipline my self not to commit adultery - because adultery is wrong - even if I have feelings for another. I'm sure you even have a line you draw when it comes to right and wrong. Many draw that line at homosexual behavior. We can discipline ourselves whether or not the law allows something.
ihsrc 2 years ago
Gay and bi people "need" discipline? I'm assuming your belief that gay or bisexual behavior is wrong is based on religious beliefs. If so, fine. I myself am Christian so I know where you might be coming from. I've learned in church that being gay or bi isn't a sin, it's only the acts a person commits which are sins. Anyhow, the point I wanted to get to is: What if we're wrong? Nobody has proven God exists. So if He doesn't, then the notion of homosexuality being wrong or a sin is false.
12Shilo12 2 years ago
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If there is no God then murder isn't wrong either. Nor is pedophilia, bestiality, or anything. There is no right or wrong at all then. You are right, thinking about being gay is not a sin - committing the act is the sin. If I think about robbing a bank, it's different than if I rob a bank. God exists - people just don't accept the evidence.
ihsrc 2 years ago
God and religion isn't the source of all morals. To end someone's life is clearly wrong, we don't need scripture to tell us this. On "being gay" I think you missed my point, so let me clarify some facts. "Being gay (or bi)" isn't about what you do, it's a label for your attractions (a mental process). Anyone can have sex with the same gender if they chose, but that isn't what makes them gay. Only actions are sins. One can't think about being gay. I'm with you about God, I believe He exists.
12Shilo12 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Am I a bank robber if I "think" about robbing a bank. No. Can I say this; "Anyone can rob a bank - that isn't what makes him a bank robber, It's only if he thinks he's a bank robber"? (even if he never has robbed a bank). And God is the source of all morals if he did in fact create us. I questioned God and his existence before, and that can be good. He understands. It will cause you to seek him out even more. I've now come to the conclusion that only the fool says in his heart there is no God.
ihsrc 2 years ago
You're bank robbing analogy here is a faulty, it's not the same thing. You have to actually rob a bank to be one. That's NOT the case with a gay or bi person. I'll explain again... straight, gay and Bi is a label for a type of attraction (key word being "attraction"), it isn't a label for actions you do. People do not need God in their life to have morals. Many athiests actually behave better than some Christians. I believe in God strongly, but I recognize His existence hasn't been proven.
12Shilo12 2 years ago 2
I wish there could be a law that forbids people like you to express such ignorance and that you're forced control over your own ignorance, Im sure it wont be difficult for you, it will make this world a better place to live for sure.
summersonset 2 years ago 3
Spoken like a true atheist dictator. You would love the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah.
ihsrc 2 years ago
ihsrc, get some education, you idiot.
summersonset 2 years ago 2
Brilliant !
ihsrc 2 years ago
Yes, I am brilliant, thank you.
summersonset 2 years ago
Why do you assume they're an athiest if they speak against your beliefs about sexual attraction?
12Shilo12 2 years ago
A bisexual is someone who doesn't limit him- or herself to one or the other sex. More power to them. Sexual preference is fluid in many cases, if it isn't supressed. Let's leave kids and animals out of the discussion, you well know that is an entirely different issue.
vidabo 2 years ago 2
Why leave kids and animals out - it all has to do with wrongful behavior and discipline? You think homosexuality is not wrong, while a farm boy thinks animals are ok. So you, yourself, even have a line to draw at human behavior. I just draw it at homosexuality.
ihsrc 2 years ago
ihsrc, having sex with an animal is considered rape, as is sex with a child, by definition. Sex between homosexuals is not, as it is consensual. Also, the large majority of animal and child molesters are straight. So, I could conclude heterosexuality is immoral.
summersonset 2 years ago
No, it does nót all have to do with wrongful behavior and discipline. I explained already why I dispute your point. You try to bring in entirely different issues (clue: relationships in which the power dynamics are radically different and unequal - even for the law, so it isn't just arbitrary, like you try to suggest), to muddle the discussion.
vidabo 2 years ago
The law caters to the majorities whims. Most of the time when the majority accepts something, it becomes law. That doesn't make it right - only legal by that cultures standards. You try and pretend that your issue is somehow different than any other similar issue. You try and set the limits on where we can go with behavior. Even if one is born with certain inclinations - must we accept it? The disturbed man who thinks he is a woman - does that make him a woman? Are there no absolutes out there?
ihsrc 2 years ago
ihsrc, give me a good reason to not accept if a person is born gay or born a transgender? And why do you need to draw an absolute. You know that homosexuality in many countries is legal and in several there is gay marriage. To homosexuality there is no absolute, as this world shows.
summersonset 2 years ago
There are cultures too, as you know, where homosexuals get the death sentence. (I'm against that). How does an atheist judge moral issues. How do you know right from wrong? I am sure even you draw the line somewhere regarding human behavior, even some consensual behaviors. For instance, a agreed upon fist fight to the death, a gun duel. asphyxiation, self mutilation? Lesser ones that society doesn't allow, like prostitution, drug use, plural marriages. I know you have a line drawn somewhere.
ihsrc 2 years ago
ihsrc,I think in gross lines you can say I judge morals by the damage that is done, to another or to oneself. You give good examples. Im against fighting to death/gunduel/asphyxiation and selfharm, as Im against drugs (harddrugs), and about prostitution and I wanna explain the last one, Im mostly against it because most of the women do it out of a traumatic childhood, and I see prostituting themselves as a way of selfharm. But there are women who do it for okay reasons for themselves (cont)
summersonset 2 years ago
(cont) and then Im okay with it. Just my personal opinion. Then plural marriage, you mean polygamy?
summersonset 2 years ago
It isn't my issue; it's yours. I have no problem with either homosexuality or bisexuality (or heterosexuality), as long as nobody gets hurt. As for absolutes, there are enough of these around to satisfy my need. I don't see what is so special about absolutes anyway, but it's an interesting point. As for gender, if we hadn't these rigid genderroles, people could just be who they are without 'gender dysphoria'. Allow for greater variety, and voila. Problem solved.
vidabo 2 years ago 2
You draw the line at getting hurt - even if they agree on torturing themselves? How about "who we are" IS the gender role. There is nothing rigid about it, it's natural. Someone else has changed the way it was. You would not want the variety which some are willing to take it. A line must be drawn somewhere. I'm sure even you see the need for that.
ihsrc 2 years ago
ihsrc, about the genderroles I have a question. If its natural for a child to do stuff that presumably doesnt fit the role (simple example-girl playing with car toys), is it then moral to force them to not play with cartoys and ignore their nature? I think its not okay, because you then harm the child. I think you would say its okay, because you stick to these genderoles, ignoring a child's personality. Correct?
summersonset 2 years ago
That is a very narrow view of a gender role. First, girls drive cars so what would be wrong with playing with a car toy? I have no problem with women driving big rigs, or cranes. But a man and a woman fit together like a hand in glove, so to speak. The sperm and egg were meant for each other. That's nature. But if my child is stealing her friends toys, then it would be moral to force them not to steal. Because the act is wrong. It didn't even "hurt" the other kid, but it is wrong.
ihsrc 2 years ago
ihsrc, I was just giving an example. In your opinion man/woman fit like a glove, but whats natural for you, man/woman, isnt natural for me, its really that simple. Did you know in nature there is also a-sexual procreation? Stealing is actually harmful to the one stolen from, and that if I do it, I harm others and myself, too (because I harm the other). This is how a child develops empathy btw.
summersonset 2 years ago
For the human species it is unnatural to chose a same sex partner for life. It is the nature of a dog to bark. If I heard a dog talk, it would be against it's nature. Because he has a basic animal instinct, the dog may hump another animal, but he doesn't pair up with a same sex partner for life. If being gay is genetic, then it must be past down genetically. So our parents and grand parents etc. had gay genes also, and most never knew it. An asexual insect can reproduce on its own. Humans can't.
ihsrc 2 years ago
ihrsc, I think youre so afraid of your own bisexual feelings you need to control other people who are bisexual or homosexual, and deny that reality, so you can have a peaceful mind. Do you realize this is a selfish behavior? In nature there are plenty of examples of animals homosexually partnering for life, you can Google for that.
summersonset 2 years ago
Not so at all. I am just thoroughly convinced that there is a God over all things. And he has a certain and complete loving will for his creation. Your theory of homosexual behavior has many holes in it. A fallen nature fits more with the evidence. You can have no real idea where to draw the line with human behavior without a God above us. When I control my child for his own good, I do not consider it selfish. Just caring. That's what God does.
ihsrc 2 years ago
You can really decide for yourself how you consider homosexuality, God etc, its not my life, its yours. One thing though. If your child is gay and you tell him, or her, its wrong, unnatural and more bad stuff about something they cant change, then youre abusing your child, youre damaging your child. I really hope you realize that.
summersonset 2 years ago
And if homosexuals are a product of our environment and a fallen nature, then not correcting them will damage my children - possibly forever. And that's a long time. I really hope you realize that.
The fact is many have "changed" from the homosexual lifestyle. It is a complete cop out to say they were never gay.
ihsrc 2 years ago
ihsrc, you should watch the movie 'Prayers for Bobby', you can see the damage attitudes similar to yours do to a gay child. And its based on a true story. The American Psychological Association (amongst others) has stated that reparative therapy, or any therapy aimed at 'healing' homosexuality is psychologically damaging to the recipient and can have long lasting effects. Your choice.
summersonset 2 years ago
Reparative therapy for homosexuals, if voluntarily entered into without coercion, does work. Jewish Psychiatrist, Jeffrey Satinover, said he believes homosexuality is potentially changeable, not for everybody, but for people who are highly motivated. Many PhDs disagree with the APA findings. There are conferences where you can meet many people who have left the lifestyle and changed their sexuality. Those that want to change should be allowed to seek professional help to do so, do you agree?
ihsrc 2 years ago
No, it doesnt work, and Satinover is from an organization against homosexuality, NARTH, and they are biased. He's not recognised as a psychotherapist, has no legit license. And not many PhD's disagree with APA, I know they are all lies, Ive researched all that a while ago when fundamentalists brought these false arguments to the table. You really are one too. Its a shame I though somewhere you had acknowledged your own bisexuality if even for a bit, but you havent. (cont)
summersonset 2 years ago
(cont) there is no such thing as changing a sexual orientation, the ex-gay movements even admit to that themselves, they only teach to repress, which causes many people a lot of damage and many turn back to gay life after years realizing they were deluded by ex-gay and extensive psychotherapy to undo the damage. Youre very biased and the fact you bring up all this bullshit made me decide to not talk to you further. I gave you a little chance, but I was wrong. You dont care about love nor people.
summersonset 2 years ago
One more thing. How does stealing hurt anyone? Surely not physically. If you speak of emotional pain, or even monetary, you open up a big can of worms. Isn't taxes a form of theft? Isn't a broken relationship emotional pain? It doesn't matter that stealing is harmful, it is wrong. Abortion is killing a baby even if the whole world thinks it's ok. Would you say that it would be immoral - if we could determine a gay gene - to abort only homosexual babies? I think abortion is the ultimate harm.
ihsrc 2 years ago
Yes, I draw the line at getting hurt. People don't live to please you or me. People are by nature cultural. We are an intelligent species. Why should things be exactly how yóu want them to be? I wouldn't choose half the things other people elect to do. And?
You and I are different, and your neighbor is different too. So what? Let's worry about something else.
vidabo 2 years ago
Did you choose to be straight? Does a person choose to love chocolate or hate squash? No, all of these things just are... they're just there as part of them. And there is no secret Hollywood "agenda", those who are Bi or Gay don't gather as a group to come up with a plan on how to make everyone else like them. They're just being honest about who they like rather than hiding it. The reason some commit suicide is because of having to deal with people like you who shun and hate them. @Neilfan12
12Shilo12 2 years ago
Of course I choose to be straight. I know gay people whom I could indulge with if I so desired. I choose not to. It's called discipline. Whether I love chocolate or not is missing the point. I still have the choice to partake of something or not to partake of something. If I love chocolate, yet chocolate is bad for me, then I discipline myself not to partake of it. And where did I say that I shun or hate gays? Obviously there is a lot more to the gay agenda than you know.
ihsrc 2 years ago
Can you pinpoint for me at what exact point in your life you CHOSE to become straight? On what day did you decide you were only attracted to the opposite sex? Having never had the desire to be with the same sex doesn't mean you chose heterosexuality. So for you there's no need for discipline in this area. You say imply that being bi or gay is bad for you. Exactly how does whom you're attracted to harm a person? And again, there is no "gay agenda" out there. Nobody's seeking to convert others.
12Shilo12 2 years ago
Can a gay pinpoint the time he became gay? There is no pinpoint of time. There was a first time I could have been with a gay person - I chose not to because it was wrong. I have thought about it before, just as I thought about robbing a bank. I chose not to because it's wrong. Is it natural for kids raised on a farm to sexually fondle animals? If they do, is it wrong? Who says so? Do we want that behavior to continue? The agenda isn't so much trying to convert, as it is forcing acceptance.
ihsrc 2 years ago
Did you feel emotionally and sexually attracted to this gay person, ihsrc? Because if not, your whole argumentation is false. And if you did, youre gay and in the closet.
summersonset 2 years ago
Or they're bi.
12Shilo12 2 years ago
12Shilo, yes, absolutely, or bisexual!
summersonset 2 years ago
Why would I have to be gay and in the closet? How about straight, with a nature to do something wrong. I've also thought of adultery too, yet chose not to do either one. We all have inclinations to do something wrong, whether it's sexual or physical, like rob a bank or commit acts of violence. What we lack is discipline and proper guidance. The churches have not been a lot of help in that area either.
ihsrc 2 years ago
ihsrc,so you DID feel emotionally and sexually attracted to this gay person, but didnt act on it, is that what youre saying?
summersonset 2 years ago
In reality there is only Straight or Gay. The word "bisexual' is a modern smokescreen to make the homosexuals feel better about themselves. A person is a homosexual if he has same sex - whether or not he has relations with the opposite sex. It doesn't matter if I am married to the opposite sex - if I have same sex, now I am a homosexual adulterer. The action is what makes you a homosexual - not whether you thought about it. I'm not a bank robber till I rob the bank.
ihsrc 2 years ago
Sorry, but you're outright wrong on this one. There isn't just straight and gay, bisexuality is real. It isn't a state of confusion or indecision. I can state with certainty that many really are attracted to both genders. Why is that so hard to believe? Logically if one can be attracted to one or the other they can also like both genders at once. It's not sinking in is it? You're not getting these labels aren't based on what we do. Check the facts.
12Shilo12 2 years ago
Shilo, I think there are people who dont wanna believe bisexuality exists because they then have to accept they might have bisexual feelings themselves ;)
summersonset 2 years ago
I don't deny the feelings of some people, but again, it's the agenda trying to smokescreen the issue. You say you are a Christian - then the "fact" is, a homosexual is someone who has sexual relations with the same sex, period, regardless of whether they have opposite sex. It is the world that made the third class called "bisexual". God said otherwise. God may be real, and he may not be. So, you have a choice. You can live as if your God is real - or live as if he is not. Is this sinking in?
ihsrc 2 years ago
It's not a smokescreen. Bisexuality is real. Yes, I am a Christian (I don't just "say" I am). You're implying that I'm not a "real" or "good" one because of what I've been saying. And you're wrong about what makes a person bi or gay... it's NOT the acts themselves it's the mental process. Just as a straight person who has never had sex is still straight, so is a bi or gay person who has never acted on it. The world may have created the labels, but they didn't the desires (bi or otherwise).
12Shilo12 2 years ago
I know the desire for both sexes exist. As Christians, we call that a fallen nature. With regard to Christianity, there is not even the term straight or gay. It is just living in Gods will or not. The homosexual act is not his will. I never mean to imply anything about you. Only God knows what is in all our hearts. And I never will say that a gay or lesbian person is not going to heaven. Only God knows that too. That's my religion. I do believe God has the best way for us to live though.
ihsrc 2 years ago
You left out Bi again. Your first sentence to me sounded like you might be acknowledging it, but as you went on it sounded like you're only talking about straight and gay. ANY sex outside of marriage (be it straight, bi or gay) is not God's will, I agree that the act is a sin. But it's not the act that makes a person gay. Gay & lesbian is the same thing, I myself don't use the label "lesbian" for gay women. People of all 3 attractions will be going to Heaven and that's not just my belief.
12Shilo12 2 years ago
If you want to call a homosexual who also has opposite sex, a bisexual, then let's narrow it down and do so. That's ok. God only sees the fallen nature of man. He sees the sinner and the saint. We can classify our sins and try to justify them - Christ died for all of them. I will use your term and say there are "bisexual" people, but they are still committing the homosexual act that the God of the bible is against (as he is with all sin). We are not defined by what we struggle with. Just sinners
ihsrc 2 years ago
ihrsc, have you learnt from a young age on youre born a sinner? Also, bisexuals also have heterosexual sex (not all bisexuals have though), so are they then a bit of less sinners than homosexuals, logic would say that is the case. Is there any ranking as to sins?
summersonset 2 years ago
A gay person isn't attracted to the opposite gender, so why would a gay man be with a woman unless he's trying to hide his homosexuality? A gay person having sex with the opposite gender isn't Bi, they're still gay. In order to be Bi a person must actually be attracted to and want to be with both. Why do you persist in believing Bisexuality doesn't exist, that it's only a state of confusion? A bi person is NOT a gay in denial. When they're with the same gender, they haven't become gay.
12Shilo12 2 years ago
Shilo, I 100% agree with you on every word you say relating to bisexuality.
summersonset 2 years ago
ihsrc, so if Im getting you right, you had a samesex attraction once to a gay person (?), then chose to not act upon it, and now youre struggling with how to label yourself? You say youre straight, and it feels to me you put much effort in denying youre actually bisexual, but cant be because God condems that and you had to make a choice and chose straight so God will still love you?
summersonset 2 years ago
Part 2: At least you're now acknowledging the possibility that God may not exist. As I've said, I strongly believe that He and Christ do indeed exist and are very real. How do you know how I live? I do live as if I believe God is real, every day I do. And what did you mean by "God said otherwise"? God hasn't defined who is or isn't straight, He's only said whom we should have relations with or marry.
12Shilo12 2 years ago
I do not acknowledge the possibility that God doesn't exist. That is a nonsensical absurdity to me. Now, trying to find the truth is the hard part. I tend to believe the bible, for the most part, and my Church that has been here for 2000 years. They passed down the traditions that Christ taught. God has said that we all have sinned - and defined what sin is. God did not create Adam and Eve with "bisexual" feelings. I have a fallen nature that I struggle with. Not that I am what I struggle with.
ihsrc 2 years ago
ihsrc, well, I commend you for saying you struggle with bisexual feelings you once had (or maybe sometimes still have) and *are* honest about it. I dont see many people who believe in God as strongly as you do and condemn themselves for it, be honest about themselves in such areas. If you want my advice (and maybe you dont), accept those feelings of yourself, it really doesnt make you any lesser of a person and I hope you can really see this. (cont)
summersonset 2 years ago
I don't condemn myself or others. I see mankind in a spiritually fallen state, all inclined to sin in one way or another. I don't see homosexuality any worse than adultery or any other mortal sin. All can be forgiven - and God understands all things. I do accept my feelings as in a fallen nature, as the God of the bible said. And I see kindness in you and others who don't see things the way I do, so I'm sure I will see you and these others there on that great day.
ihsrc 2 years ago
ihsrc, I'd love to meet on that great day. However, indeed, Im an atheist lol, so I wont go to heaven (nor hell). but I get your message. It was nice talking to you, and to Shilo and I learned a few new things. Gotta go now, may be back later. Have a good day all :)
summersonset 2 years ago
summersonset, please don't take offense by what I say here in this reply, it's just my belief and that of my church... but even atheists will be going to Heaven too. People of all faiths (or lack of) have a shot at getting in... Heaven isn't exclusive to Christians. Now I'm sure ihsrc and others will disagree, but that's fine. They're free to believe what they want just as we all are. One day we'll find out who was correct, but lets all just love each other the same in the meantime.
12Shilo12 2 years ago
You can't be sure what I believe because you misunderstand the Catholic Church. There will be atheists in heaven, as well as members of most religions. I converted to the Catholic Church from the Protestant religion I was raised with because the Catholic Church had the best theology regarding tolerance of others. I had to look past what I had been taught about Catholics and studied them for myself. And I still believe even Protestants will be there, ha ha.
ihsrc 2 years ago
Shilo, I dont feel offended at all you telling me I will be going to heaven too. Eventhough I dont believe in heaven (nor hell), its an expression of love, and that I really do understand. Thanks.
summersonset 2 years ago
Being gay or bi isn't something God will have to forgive us of, it's only acts we do in life which we must atone for. If a gay (or bi) person goes through life never having had sex with someone, there will be nothing for God to forgive them of in that area.
12Shilo12 2 years ago
Christianity doesn't classify a person by what he or she thinks they are. Does your denomination? He is not a 'gay' person, or a 'straight' person for that matter. He is just a 'person' - with inclinations to sin. He is not a 'gay' person going through life never having having had sex. He is a person going through life with a sinful nature, inclined with unnatural tendencies that he must discipline himself to overcome, like all sin. You are right, if he doesn't act, there is nothing to forgive.
ihsrc 2 years ago
But homosexuality is not a sin. Im very opposed to the idea and teaching of children they are born sinners. That is a form of abuse. Calling yourself a sinner, I feel, is a form of selfabuse. Homosexuality is completely harmless, but then its said, by you, a gay person will be a forever sinner if he/she acts on it their whole life, and wont be forgiven etc. How sadistic is that. Who wants to teach that to any person? Its very cruel and I think you dont realize how cruel it really is.
summersonset 2 years ago
If I teach my child from birth the difference between right and wrong - yet in his youth he rebels and does just what I taught him not to do - where does that rebellion come from? (smart mouth disrespect, stealing candy, hitting other kids etc.) We call it a sinful nature. What do you call it?
That is your opinion that Homosexuality is harmless. One could argue - and they have (nambla) - that child sex is harmless. They have doctors backing them up with their beliefs too.
ihsrc 2 years ago
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2009herbie 2 years ago
ihsrc, I doint call it sinful, its natural childs behavior that needs correction and teaching. I dont use the word sin for that, its ridden with guilt and judgement. . I dont agree with nambla because sex between children and adults (rape and abuse) isnt harmless, thats where I draw the line. It damages children and thats an understatement. I dont even understand why this comparison is made. Its obvious homosexuality harms noone.
summersonset 2 years ago
What you called the "natural child's behavior" is what we call a sinful nature. The inclination to do wrong. You just use a different name. Why do you have a problem with guilt? One who does wrong should feel guilty about it. The law calls a criminal guilty and pronounces judgment on him. Guilt can be a good thing and keep someone from doing bad things.
ihsrc 2 years ago
The whole point is that people can call homosexuality a sin, meaning its a bad thing. I dont agree with that as I dont feel Im a bad person or am bad for living according to my nature. And I wasnt raised using the word. For me the word has a real bad connotation. I dont use if for criminals either. I have a problem with guilt when its unnecessarily added to something, eg homosexuality. I do believe though that guilt is an indication of a cosncience which is needed to learn things.
summersonset 2 years ago
(cont)And if you condemn this in yourself, you will condemn others too, and thats whats been happening in this debate and why people, I myself for sure, react strongly to what you say. Im not living my life to condemn myself (nor others) for who I am. I consider that not to be love and not taking good care of myself, its selfdestructive IMO to do that. But to each their own. Just be aware when you condemn others because you condemn yourself, you cause pain to others.
summersonset 2 years ago
Oh, so you're Catholic. I don't believe that we all must suffer for any sin committed by Adam or Eve, nor that theirs is passed on to each of us. Everyone's sin is their own, each person only has to answer for themselves... their own actions. I don't believe we're born into sin, I think a baby is a clean slate. But do each of us sin in life as we grow? Yes, the only perfect (non-sining) person was Christ.
12Shilo12 2 years ago
You misunderstand the Catholic Church, as so many frequently do. When Adam and Eve sinned, we inherited the fallen nature. That is why we are inclined to sin, and we do sin. We will only answer for our own individual sins. We can't say that society said something was ok, therefore we won't answer for that. Societies come and go, but God will always be here. Yes, a baby is without sin and must be taught Gods will (and be baptized). What told you I was Catholic? I actually teach it.
ihsrc 2 years ago
Then why do Catholic's baptize infants? Surely a person who hasn't had a chance to sin yet doesn't need baptism yet. I say "yet" because we all do eventually. Even Christ who didn't need baptism due to being perfect got baptized, He did it to lead by example and show its importance. Why do you baptize with sprinkling? I've wondered that. When it's done in the Bible it's by immersion in the water. You said your church had been here for 2,000 years etc., so I assumed you're Catholic.
12Shilo12 2 years ago
People seem to think only in terms of straight & gay, like you just have here... they forget about the middle ground (being Bi). You talk about being "straight with a nature to do something wrong" by this I assume you mean being mainly attracted to the opposite gender, but with some desires for the same gender (those thoughts you fight). Guess what? That's bisexuality. If you're having occasional desires to actually be with the same gender you're not straight.
12Shilo12 2 years ago
In reality there is only Straight or Gay. The word "bisexual' is a modern smokescreen to make the homosexuals feel better about themselves. A person is a homosexual if he has same sex - whether or not he has relations with the opposite sex. It doesn't matter if I am married to the opposite sex - if I have same sex, now I am a homosexual adulterer. The action is what makes you a homosexual - not whether you thought about it. A Christian should know that. There is no "bisexual" in the bible.
ihsrc 2 years ago
ihsrc, you still havent answered my question, did you feel emotionally and sexually attracted to this gay person you knew? Its not the action that makes one homosexual, it are the feelings and attractions to the samesex that defines it. If you would never have straight sex again, would you still say youre straight? Or before you had straight sex, did you feel you were straight? Thats what its about,
summersonset 2 years ago
Good points there summersonset. Does a straight person who has never had sex consider themselves straight? Of course they do. As you and I have said, it's not about what we do. Physical acts aren't what makes a person straight, bi or gay. Some people just don't get it. @Neilfan12
12Shilo12 2 years ago
Shilo, yes many people dont want to get it. And that homosexuality is exactly the same as heterosexuality, and bisexuality, the ONLY difference is with whom you fall in love and have sex. For the rest its ALL the same. Its SO simple.
summersonset 2 years ago
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2009herbie 2 years ago
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2009herbie 2 years ago
Wow, I had no idea.
MaryJesusJoseph 2 years ago
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McKellster93 2 years ago