California High-Speed Trains: SF South Bay

[TheYTisTRASH]

Der Doppeldeckerwagen erscheint wie ein Dosto200 von Bombardier, eigentlich in Europa daheim...aso...der SF war ja nen TGV ...hihi...ach liebe Amis, Ihr werdet auch noch lernen, das Kraft für eure Mobilität von Kraftstoff kommt, und der wird ja immer teurer :P

PS: in Europa sind Hochgeschwindigkeitszüge seit en 80ern unterwegs....im Stundentakt...

[tickyul]

@TheYTisTRASH Hat die HSR zu einem Verlust in Deutschland betreiben?

In den Vereinigten Staaten von Ameritard alles von der Regierung betrieben wird in das Loch. Kalifornien ist total pleite und kann sich nicht leisten, dieses Tier ..... es riesige Mengen an Geld zu verlieren.

[southkoreaa123]

Bout time america start investing in something that might actualy help our oil dependency and other transportation issues even through it may cost billions of dollars trust me eople are going to use it no matter how dumb and wasteful it is. I think america can develop state of art high speed rail technologies with help from foreign countries and create a high speed rail system that would benefit the current generation and future generations

[Scoinsoffaterocks]

It could do without the overhead wires:

/watch?v=EZylrGjebnw

/watch?v=AsfkUipDSNM

thetransportpolitic. com/?s =primove

[CommunityBuildersSB]

The only knowledgeable person making comments here is tickyul.

Why do the ignoramuses in this country always have the loudest mouths? The effect must be the product of listening to talk radio and watching cable news.

[sinceritus]

This is from personal experience but most people that i've heard object to this have never riden a high speed train (over 150 mph) let alone leave the continent.

[tickyul]

@sinceritus Trust me, much of the proposed line will be running a lot slower than the 150mph you dream about.......HSR only in your dreams.

[TheMantisTycoon]

Baby Bullet is nothing compared to Mama Bullet!

[computerslice]

Sorry turtle, but the hare has a date in Hollywood.

[th3gtr]

Man, just imagine what this is going to do for California! It's done a great good for Japan, France, Germany, and Spain.

[sideslide23]

not every one can afford to travel any whare in the U.S. because of high cost of fuel, high cost of new cars, airlines tickets are going up, Amtrak is a waste of money because the fairs is as same as Airline tickets and there much slower than driving and flying, so the Cheapest Transportation to travel is Greyhound Bus starting at $50, If we had high speed train, you can take that train for the same cost of Greyhound and travel 3 times the speed of Greyhound bus.

[tickyul]

@sideslide23 Uh, high speed train for the same cost as Greyhound.......uh, no. Even if the costs to the passenger was the same, I can gaurantee you it is being propped up by Big Brother. The costs of any sort of rail are just so much higher than any bus will ever be, no way of getting around that fact.

[sideslide23]

@tickyul Greyhound is a POS I rather travel on anything but Greyhound bus.

[Civsuccess2]

Waiting for BART to take me to Airport 45 minutes. That is how much demand pp have for "traveling". PP don't want to travel far. I suspect the number of pp who want to use this HST is very low.

[jolifuton]

Can not wait for this to be come real

[tickyul]

I just cannot believe that CaliforniaTARDS voted for light rail. Well then again, maybe I can. If you think the USPS and Amtrak are STINKING BLUE ELEPHANTS that lose money each year, you aint seen nothin yet. The cost for the line from San Fran to LA is supposed to cost....what, 40 billion? And it is not allowed to use any public money to build..HAHA! When it is running, the private company running it will get a GAURANTEED rider level per year (government subsidy), or at least that is the rumor.

[sideslide23]

too bad, Driving longer trip is dangerous enough, and Flying is even dangerous and expensive to travel on, and Busses are much slower and unconfortable than Trains and planes.

[tickyul]

@sideslide23: Uh, Uh, flying is statistically the safest form of transportation. Driving can be very safe, you just have to pay attention and know what you are doing. I am not saying this train system would not be nice, it will just be a huge financial mess. High speed rail, even at its best...break even. Very bad idea financially.

[th3gtr]

@tickyul Well, who pays for highways, roads, and airports?

[tickyul]

@th3gtr Uh, taxes and taxes and more taxes......from various sources. The point is the states has a very bad track record when it comes to making projects like this run on a break even basis. The operator of this system is going to want either a gauranteed yearly revenue or a gauranteed ridership level...if these are not met..........guess who will be on the hook?

[th3gtr]

@tickyul Aren't we doing the same for BART? I think BART is pretty useful.

[tickyul]

@th3gtr This system was sold on the Gaurantee (yes, it is written into the legal language surrounding the development of this system) that is would NOT require public funds (excluding the approved financing). The developers of this system are already racking their brains trying to get around this legality, they know it will not fly without tons of money injected into this squealing piggy!

[th3gtr]

@tickyul And this won't provide jobs to people and bring prosperity to areas around the stations? Kakegawa? It seems to be an important investment for the future; sort of like how the Golden Gate Bridge and Caldecott tunnels were. They are working on a fourth bore now aren't they? Aren't they also building a tunnel on 101? I'd be willing to pay taxes as an investment for the future. Also, the people already voted for this. They accepted the financial resp. of this and agreed to build it.

[tickyul]

@th3gtr Well, it is not the same as a vital like like the GGB, there is plenty of ways to get around Ca, this is just another project that will lose money. California is a failing state and this will be another typical boondogle that will put it further under, good job Californiatards. There is no way the revenue from operations will pay for the cost of this system, it will HAVE to be subsidized by the taxpayers, what a joke. Fares would have to be 100 dollars min per rider to cover operations.

[th3gtr]

@tickyul Okay, now how are you SO sure that it will be a failure? Let's see. In 1964, Japan opened the world's first HSR system. Within a year, it had 100 million riders. In the next 15 years, it served 1 billion people. The construction, started in 1959, "was financed by issuing bonds in Japan, borrowing from the World Bank and the Japanese Govt. The loans were expected to be returned through the revenues from passenger fares, and the management became profitable three years after the

[th3gtr]

initiation of its operation. In 1970 the profit was more than 100 billion yen, and all of the initial investment was recovered by 1971. Since then, the revenue from Shinkansen has been an important resource to subsidize local lines."

[th3gtr]

link to document:

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[th3gtr]

Sorry, but I had to put it upside down so it would post. Now, the Golden Gate Bridge.  Read this article:

ןɯʇɥ˙1qƃƃ‾ǝןɔıʇɹɐ/ƃɹo˙ʎɹoʇsıɥu­ıɹɐɯ˙ʍʍʍ//:dʇʇɥ

People back then had the same worries about the GGB as you have about the HSR.

"New opinions are always suspected, and usually opposed, without any other reason but because they are not already common." -John Locke, English philosopher

[th3gtr]

Back then, the "GGB" was not thought of as vital as you say it is. So fifty years from now when the population of California has increased and the high speed rail system may possibly be as common as the GGB, it could also be seen as "vital" as the GGB and an important part of the state's infrastructure.

[tickyul]

@th3gtr It is pretty simple. The costs of this system will be more than the initial estimates, probably times two. So, they are up to 50 billion, that means that the system will cost 100 billion....at least. To pay for the bonds will be next to impossible. You will have to charge a lot for a ticket, this will drive people away. Also, whoever operates this system (no, please not overpaid state employees) will know the deal and require either a contractual ridership gaurantee or reimbursement.

[th3gtr]

@tickyul Sigh...There's only one real way to see who will be right in this.

[tickyul]

@th3gtr Well, hopefully we will never "see" this great state mess come to fruition, it will be another government boondoggle.

[th3gtr]

@tickyul Why do you think it won't work for us? It's worked for Japan, France, Germany, Taiwan, China and Spain. Mexico, Morocco, Russia, and Turkey are planning to build them. Did you read the article I provided?

[tickyul]

@th3gtr I just stated my case, it may be a really nice system, but, financially it will be underwater from the get go. Seattle has a light rail system that subsidizes EACH PASSENGER TO THE TUNE OF ABOUT 100 DOLLARS PER TRIP.

[th3gtr]

@tickyul Did you read both articles I provided? How much does it cost to go from SF to LA by plane and by automobile?

[tickyul]

@th3gtr The difference is both plane and auto are not coming out of the taxpayers pocket. If a ticket on this rail system is cheap, it is because somewhere along the line it is subsidized, meaning the rider is paying less than the actual cost for that trip, very bad policy. If they charge what is actually needed to cover costs it will be really expensive....and no one will ride the damn thing.

[th3gtr]

@tickyul "both plane and auto are not coming out of the taxpayers pocket." ?! Ha! Watch these (on youtube) and perhaps you'll think otherwise:

"The Railroad Story" (unfair treatment of railroads) part 1

"The Railroad Story" (unfair treatment of railroads) part 2

"The Railroad Story" (unfair treatment of railroads) part 3

Did you read the two articles I provided you?

[tickyul]

@th3gtr I knew that you were going to pick up on the Car/Planes comment from my last post (YT squashed your links). I am just very weary of another failed government pink elephant. the track record for cost overruns is horrible on huge projects like this. Where are they going to get the money when this thing ends up costing 120 billion instead of 50????

[th3gtr]

@tickyul We don't know if(not "when") this project will be a success or not for sure. We can only make projections of number of people using the system and cost to run and so on and so on. But, when looking at other alternatives of improving the infrastructure to move people like widening highways and enlarging runways (which is predicted to cost twice as much as HSR, and observing and studying the successes of other HSRs around the world (Tokaido Shinkansen FTW!), HSR seems to be the best

[tickyul]

@th3gtr Please, call it Light Rail, it is not going to be HSR. This thing would cost a lot more money if they were to build the needed infastructure to support try HSR. LOTS of the areas where the trains will be traveling will in no ways support HSR, lots of erosion issues and severe twists and turns.

[th3gtr]

@tickyul investment. This project could end up costing more than projected. But if you read the article I provided, it is possible to pay it all off. Like I typed earlier, ppl back in the 1930s had the same concerns as you had about the GGB. But the bridge has turned out to be an successful investment, and has revenue! Eventually, the cost of petrol will probably go up. An HSR system, that is cheaper than air, faster than car, is most effective between 100 mi to 600 mi (SF to LA),

[tickyul]

@th3gtr Lots of luck on this one. If you think this BROKE state can afford to pay huge cost overruns for a pink elephant.....well, I got a GGB to sell you. This state is a mess, it cannot manage a budget to save its life. In inflation adjusted dollars the GGB probably could not be built nowadays. Just like if NYC had to build the subway system with current costs, would never happen. But the crooked politicians have to have some sort of insane money/power grab.........it is called CA HSR.

[th3gtr]

@tickyul uses a fraction of energy that cars and planes use is a good alternative. More and more people will use it. You're worried about the finance. I must give you the article. It has a section on the financing of the Tokaido Shinkansen. I've got it as a pdf file. How would you like it sent? Email? Rapidshare?

If you type (or copy) these into the search box of YT, not the url, you should be able to find the vids. These are the names of the videos:

[tickyul]

@th3gtr Uh, Japan is not CA, Japan is not the USA. We have to look at the history of RAIL IN THE USA. Amtrak has a poor track record of making money, always sucking of the governments tits. I think the Acel Line breaks even at best. The fact is Ameritards prefer their cars. Not enough people will ride this thing to pay the huge costs.

[th3gtr]

@tickyul Yes, it's true. Japan is not the USA. But Taiwan, South Korea and Turkey are not Japan either. And god, don't mention Amtrak and its Acela. Acela is a high-speed trainset running on an old PRR mainline. Shinkansen means "New Trunk Line." It was an entirely new rail line created just for the high-speed transportation of people. California is an earthquake prone area, much like where the Shinkansen came from. Severe twists and turns? Try a minimum 4500m min. curve radius on

[th3gtr]

@tickyul the Shinkansen lines. They wouldn't call it light rail if they say the trains will run above 140 km/h, which is sadly the U.S.'s standard for high-speed. They say it will run around 300 km/h. I have faith in Americans. If a way to get somewhere under 600 miles is faster than cars, and requires less hassle than traveling by air, people will ride it. Americans did use to ride the rails before Eisenhower put a huge govt. investment in the Interstate Highway System.

[tickyul]

@th3gtr You have faith in Ameritards, uh...that is one big mistake. Just the rail foundation to make this true HSR will sink any profitabiltiy. The creeps know that this thing is most going to run below HSR speed, why bother and lie about it.

[th3gtr]

@tickyul And I believe we can do it again. Now, I'm not a genius. But, I reckon, that if they're going to invest a huge amount of money in this, they are going to plan like crazy. And some of those plans are going to be reports on projected ridership and revenue. If the reports say not one person will ride this system, or not one cent will be payed back by this system, do you really think they would have come this far in planning? To the point where a rail advisor from France was brought

[tickyul]

@th3gtr Uh, when beauracrats sense that they can swim in government dough....uh, they will twist the numbers which ever way they need to. Think about all of the cushy, high paying jobs that will come out of this boondoggle. Then when it is done and 3 times over budget they will just snicker and walk away. Even worse will be the year over year budget shortfalls.

[th3gtr]

@tickyul Have you listened to any of my replies? Seriously, I have passed on so much information to you and given you multiple opportunities to read the articles I have...I just don't see how you can keep ignoring these. The faith in Americans thing was how many weeks ago? Like a month ago. You keep repeating the same thing in every post. If that's all your going to say, I shouldn't waste my time trying to pass on information to you. Where do you think I'm getting my info from anyway? FOX? yuck!

[tickyul]

@th3gtr Yes, I have listened to what you have to say, it has not convinced me that this is a viable project, if sanity prevails it will get cancelled. Why don't you see my point, a broke country with inbred retards running it equals fail more often than not. California already has tons of programs that is cannot pay for, we needeth not another I proclaim. How about Calpers, gravy retirement that the state cannot afford, various estimates put it 200-500 BILLION in the red, how is that for dumb?

[th3gtr]

@tickyul One reason is that this project does have a chance to pay itself. You might laugh at it, but these central Cali cities still have growing to do. There will be potential riders. Secondly, the economic opportunities this project will provide are immense. The demand for materials this project will create will be huge. Goods and money will move. According to a research project summary prepared by Economic Development Research Group, Inc, Los Angeles will have $7.6 billion a year in new

[tickyul]

@th3gtr Ok, but first we need to cut loose Amtrak and see if if lives without Government babysitting. Then...and only then will we move forward with this....light...er, uh, I mean high speed rail. The northeasten corridore for all commuter rail has 44 million people, guess how many people ride daily in this area?? Is it 1 million...400 thousand....100 thousand??? Tee hee hee, the answer is 28 THOUSAND, NOT EVEN CLOSE TO 1% OF THE POPULATION, THAT IS VERY PATHETIC.

[th3gtr]

I said it before, you cannot compare Amtrak with HSR. I've already listed the reasons why. Compare and contrast the characteristics of light rail and HSR, then see which one fits the upcoming system better. Personally, I think a +300km/h system w/ banked turns, low elevation changes, absence of crossings, and passenger sidings at every station fits under the variable of HSR better than light rail. The figure you've provided is closer to 40,000.

[th3gtr]

One problem is that we haven't been setting our policies to encourage use of rail. Remember that SF Chronicle article I mentioned? How can you compare something that is heavily subsidized by governments(highways and roads) and something that was barely funded at all by the former administration?

[tickyul]

@th3gtr Yeah, that is all we need, Big Brother setting policy to push people onto its bankrupt, pink elephant. Can you say Failed Nation, that is what the United States Of Ameritard is, might as well blow billions (trillions??) on another failed idea. The fact is we are 14 trillion in debt and this Oinker Program will do nothing to unclog freeways or reduce pollution. Look at the Post Office, lost 8 billion last year, they have a fucking monopoly on letters, how did they manage that....failure.

[th3gtr]

@tickyul You're wrong there. The Interstate Highway System was not a failed idea. It is a very good system. The problem is that when it was proposed, the country didn't foresee the problem of increasing oil prices and pollution problems. The U.S. had a surplus of oil after the Second World War. It was cheap. Now it's not. What does the Post Office have anything to do with high speed rail? If you want to argue about the U.S. postal service, go argue with someone with expertise on the subject.

[th3gtr]

@tickyul That's not my area of interest. Do not change the subject. What do you mean by this system doing nothing to help? It is going to help. The CA pop. today is 38 million. Do you know the projected pop. of 2030? 50 million! The transportation demand will be too great for our highways and airports. We're building this to handle the extra capacity for the future and provide a convenient and affordable method of travel of distances between 100-600 miles.

[tickyul]

@th3gtr Yeah, if the population get up to 50 million, let's see, the ridership on trains will be 1/100th of 1 % of that amount, that equals......uh, fail again. You do not realize that my bringing up the USPS was to make a point, the point being this country is a big fumblebutt, just cannot do things right anymore, the California hsr is already broken and it has not even been built, This country is approaching Greek levels of debt, we cannot keep this up.

[th3gtr]

Where are you getting these ridership figures? The USPS isn't even a transportation system. What percent of the funding is coming from private and local sources? "So, I am not going to even bother to answer your question about Hsr." I bet it is because you don't know the difference between light rail and high-speed rail systems. I've already told you in my past comments, yet you still don't know. Don't you think this is why so much money is being wasted? B/c the ppl don't even know

[th3gtr]

how the projects and policies they fund function? What do you mean California HSR is already broken?

Can you tell me the differences between a light rail system and a high-speed rail system? They are not the same. List the key differences if you have to.

[tickyul]

@th3gtr Uh, I do not want to sound patronizing.....but, you sound like you have not been awake to the facts, the facts that this country is corrupt and incompetent. You should be able to see it in our 14 trillion dollar national debt. Or the pathetic shape so many city/state governments are in. Why would this stupid slow speed rail be any different??? It already looks like the numbers are being fudged, ridership projections will not pan out, train operators will need revenue gaurantees.....fail.

[th3gtr]

You do know that it will cost the state more to build more highways and airport gates to accommodate greater transportation demands of an increasing population right? And who funds that? Hmmmm...

Slow speeds?!

Can you tell me the differences between a light rail system and a high-speed rail system? They are not the same. List the key differences if you have to.

CA's cities and metropolitan areas are arranged roughly as a line going down the state. This is just like Japan's cities.

[th3gtr]

You couldn't ask for a better arrangement.

I'm a little concerned about the city layouts around Chicago. The HSR lines over there will probably spoke out like the LGV system does from Paris in France.

A big factor in ridership I think will be the reliability and punctuality of this system. Airlines are not the most reliable things. Delays, cancellations. Sometimes the plane will wait on the taxi strip for up to an hour(it's happened to me). If we can run this system close to how the

[th3gtr]

Shinkansen operates, I believe it will be successful. Of course, we can't expect things to be immediately successful from the get go. S. Korea's system started off with low ridership, but after 5 years, the ridership figures grew substantially.

Before you criticize this $40-$60 billion system, why don't you ask the Defense Department to stop using a quarter of the government's budget? Why don't you ask the government to stop subsidizing the fishing industry which loses $25 billion A YEAR?

[th3gtr]

Guess who makes up that lost money? We do.

Between a highway transportation system and a high-speed rail system, which one has more externalities? The highways do. And who pays for those externalities? We do.

[th3gtr]

About $4 billion in federal subsidies are annually used to keep the price of water low. The reasons that people who support this are "to encourage agricultural development and economic growth." First of all, this reduces incentive to conserve water. Secondly, the "development and economic growth" is all artificial. Thirdly, we looping the costs of water into our taxes. Fourthly, and most significantly of all, why the heck are you not complaining of these subsidies($4 billion annually)

[th3gtr]

but instead complain of a transportation system which is being subjected to thorough environmental analyses to make sure it will be environmentally and economically viable? This system does have a chance at paying itself off, like the Tokiado Shinkansen and LGV Sud-Est have done.

[gibb1991]

@th3gtr Every infracstructure project is subject to environmental review. Even new air routes.

[gibb1991]

@tickyul You call 220 mph "slow-speed?" You're not even considering comparing other high speed systems around the world or how they work. All true high speed rail systems produce profits and SNCF just paid off several of its high speed lines without taxpayer money. Taiwain's high speed rail line carried 100 million passengers in just its first three years of service. You're not providing an argument that stands solid.

[tickyul]

@gibb1991 There are just too many ways to get around in that area, why take an overpriced, SLOW train when you can go travel many other ways. Yes the area that this so called HSR is supposed to run has lots of really challenging terrain, switchbacks and hills out the ass, no way they can run at high speeds in many areas. To make the thing fully high speed on the whole route would triple the price, and we all know the 40-50 billion number is plain horsehockey. Nice job bringing up France not USA.

[gibb1991]

@tickyul You do know that switchbacks haven't been used in the USA on mainlines since the late 1800's and there are no switchbacks on any high speed railway anywhere in the world, right? Even where high speed trains run in Switzerland, Austria, and Germany where mountains are everywhere. And an example of American success with HSR is the Acela Express. No, it's not super-fast, but it's profitable and covers all of it's operating and maintanence costs. Am I supposed to take you seriously?

[gibb1991]

@tickyul High-Speed Rail is also for inter-city travel, not inner-city as you seem to be presenting. I don't think you can drive your car at 220 mph from LA to San Fransisco or vice versa, and nobody can (let alone wants) get through the groping process at airports that are 15-30 minutes outside of cities. Answer this for me: Have you ridden any high-speed train (NOT Amtrak outside of the Acela Express) anywhere in the world?

[tickyul]

@gibb1991 Well, show me a rail line in the USA, not Japan or Germany that is making money and does not have to suck off governments tits. I know, the Acela ONCE broke even. Amtrak has a real losing track record when it comes to making money, that is the story for any rail in this country. That line from Sf to LA will not support HSR speed in so many spots unless you spend a quadrillion to fix all of the switchback points. Better yet, do not build the waste of money.

[gibb1991]

@tickyul Well, Japan's railways were privatized back in 1986 and is currently operated with no subsidies by six private companies. The Acela Express in 2009 made a 129% profit ($41 per passenger), Germany's high speed services only recieve government grants for construction, SNCF's TGV has paid off several of its lines with only self-produced profits, and Eurostar recently privatized and seperated its partnership with the French Government. And one again...switchbacks don't exist anymore.

[tickyul]

@gibb1991 Right like I said...a USA high speed rail system. And if a private company wants to carefully map out an area where they THINK HSR will work and build it....fine with me. The fact is, this idea of HSR in the USA is dumb because it will cost too much and the government will have to subsidize it...just like it does the USPS office and Amtrak.

[gibb1991]

@tickyul Amtrak and high-speed rail are very different. Amtrak uses old technology and only has shares held by the US Government. The plan is to allow private companies to do most of the work within the CHSRS.

[bhgardner54]

@tickyul Show me where the Interstate is making money. Why is rail the only form of transportation that is expected to operate without subsidies? You never hear conservatives bawling when airports are being subsidized.

[tickyul]

@bhgardner54 They are built and maintained with tax dollars.......you know, that semi-truck that pays thousands of dollars a year in taxes???? Can this country afford to build this thing.......no way. Will this light rail system take in enough money to even pay for operating costs......let alone make the interest payment on the bonds......hehehe.......uh, no. Another pink elephant that the government is famous for.

[gibb1991]

@tickyul Actually, almost all true high speed rail systems have proven to be financially self-sustainable. Examples include Acela, Eurostar, Virgin, CrossCountry, Southeast, JR, JRE, JRW, JRS, and rail is becoming so popular in America, that even two non high-speed routes on Amtrak produced a profit as well as privately-owned Maine Eastern Railways.

[tickyul]

@gibb1991 Well, I am fine with a private company building and running the thing. The fact is this business model is crap, that is why you have to have the Bloated Government print money to pay for crap like this. Amtrak is a losing proposition, let it die and then run only routes than have the density and demand to make a profit......and no government money or goodies.

[gibb1991]

@tickyul Amtrak is a disaster, but this won't be run by Amtrak. If if you don't want anything to get subsidies, then lets cut highway funding and air funding as well. They get more than $30 billion per year. Amtrak only gets $1.2 billion per year. However, only one true high speed rail system is subsidized, and that is because the government chose to do so, in China. However, Amtrak needs to be replaced by private or public-private partnerships.

[gibb1991]

@bhgardner54 I wouldn't worry about tickyul. He's on several HSR video pages ranting nonsense. He/she knows nothing about the economics or operations behind high speed rail.

[tickyul]

@gibb1991 Sure, this country is bleeding money in thousands of different ways, now we have another pink elephant to and to that bleeding.......it is called SLOW SPEED RAIL.

[gibb1991]

@tickyul Slow Speed Rail...are you an idiot?

[tickyul]

@gibb1991 Well, I know the route that that train is going to run down. If they want to run it at high speeds on much of the route................it is going to be insanely expensive to put in the infastructure.......impossible in some parts. There are so many issues with putting in and running HSR in any area.....this one is especially tricky.

[th3gtr0]

@tickyul watch?v=MuZimBO0n3o&feature=ch­annel_video_title

It will be expensive, but it will be worth it. Many of the issues can be mitigated with the use of a dedicated right-of-way, a corner radius of 4000 meters or greater, and change in elevation rate of 2.5% or less. To accomplish these figures, the use of viaducts, bridges, and tunnels will be required. Have you looked at the right-of-way studies?

[th3gtr]

This will reduce pollution. The energy-consumption on a passenger-mile basis for a high-speed rail trainset is 1/4 of that of air transportation and 1/6 of that of automobiles. The CO2 emissions of a Shinkansen trainset is 1/5 of that of aircraft and 1/8 of that from automobiles. Not reducing emissions? What do you mean? The high-speed rail idea is in NO WAY a failed idea. What don't you dig for information yourself about high-speed train systems around the world? Yeah, it's definitely a

[th3gtr]

@tickyul failure. Especially when Japan, France, Germany, and China are pushing forward in their developments to make their already great systems even better. It's definitely a failure when we know that Japan has exported trainsets to Taiwan and China and is planning to also for Vietnam. It's a failure when we know that France has exported some trainsets to S. Korea and Italy. It's a failure when we know that Germany has sold trainsets to Russia for a Moscow-St. Petersburg line.

[th3gtr]

@tickyul It's definitely a failure when we know that a trans-continental high-speed rail system is being made all over Europe. It's definitely a failure when we know that Turkey is making a high-speed rail system. It's definitely a failure even though we know that China is making a 20,000km long high-speed rail network in less than a decade. It's definitely a failure even though we know that Mexico is building(that's right, building, not planning!) a high-speed rail line between Mexico City and

[th3gtr]

@tickyul Guadalajara(Did you notice the sarcasm?). You're complaining about the CA HSR system. Didn't a $30 billion bill to fund the occupation of central Asia pass like two months back? Hasn't our military spending increased every since 2000? Aren't we spending over $700 billion a year on the Department of Defense(WAR)? Why don't you complain about that? Now people like you are complaining about spending money to improve the country's infrastructure. Infrastructure is one of the most important

[th3gtr]

@tickyul things to spend money on so it is continually updated and maintained. And what's your solution to handling the transportation demands of another 12 million people in 2030? Make highways wider? Make runways longer? That's going to cost at least twice as much as a single high-speed rail will cost. Are automobiles that most efficient way or most environmentally friendly way to travel? Under distances of 100 miles, yes. Over disances of 100 miles, no. How about aircraft?

[th3gtr]

@tickyul Over 600 miles, yes. Under 600 miles, no. SF to LA is the ideal distance for high-speed rail with metropolitan centers at either end and growing economies in between. You couldn't ask for a better setup. While you keep yelling elephant at anything government funded(by the way, this is a privately-publicly funded project) and be ignorant about high-speed rail, I'll keep praising and reading about the project that will help the general welfare of the people of California.

[tickyul]

@th3gtr Ok, in THEORY it is all fluffy and shiny bunnies. When the state of Californiatard gets to workin on it........uh, well you can figger out how well things are going to go. So, I am not going to even bother to answer your question about Hsr, hopefully this thing will not even get started.

[th3gtr]

@tickyul Now that I've thought about it, I have to ask. Can you tell me the differences between a light rail system and a high-speed rail system? They are not the same. List the key differences if you have to.

[MrEiriku]

@tickyul fuck you in the ass and you want more

[tickyul]

@MrEiriku LOL, that is the best you can do...........HAHAHA. I speak out against another insane waste of money.....and you get your panties in a knot. Why not jsut debunk what I am stating......this HSR will not be running at HSR speeds on much of the line, the year over year loses will be staggering, taxpayers will eventually have to prop this monster up. Just too many ways to get around that area, not enough folks will chose the overpriced choo-choo.

[th3gtr]

business sales, 55,000 new jobs, and $3 billion in new wages as a result of the economic impacts of a high speed rail system. We have to remember that these numbers won't instantly realize. A few years after the introduction of services and the numbers will climb. Remember that TGV revenue chart I was typing about? Thirdly, we don't need a two-thirds majority to vote in a law, only a majority. Hopefully, this will help speed passing a budget. "This type of long-term investment in infrastructure

[th3gtr]

will pay dividends for decades, much as the interstate highway system of the 1950s has." -SF Chronicle article about high speed rail by Andy Ball and Dave Dutton, both Silicon Valley business leaders. I have more confidence in this if the private sector encourages it. The $8 billion measure that was passed in 2008 was a bond measure. The $2 billion of support came from the federal govt, not state govt. I agree that the timing is quite bad for this project. It should have been built decades ago

[th3gtr]

but was instead shelved(Thanks Reagan)! Perhaps postponing this project might be a solution, but we've been doing that for decades. Procrastination does not help anyone.

[th3gtr]

in?

This system could be paid for on a private/public partnership like they did with the Shinkansen.

IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO READ ABOUT IT, I CAN SEND YOU A COPY.

I just hate arguing with people who don't read and provide their articles and evidence. If there is an article or something you would like me to read, then I can.

[tickyul]

@th3gtr No, it won't be paid for like that. The fed will give some money and then California will float some bonds. You cannot fathom the cost overruns in trying to build this system. It will run as light rail for the most part, TRUE HSR will be achieved in very few, if any areas. Private financing would require that CA make up any cost shortcomings that befall on the lucky victim (private operator). No matter which way you slice it, California will pay out the nose.... money it does not have.

[th3gtr]

@tickyul Whether they start building this before they have enough money or not.

[th3gtr]

@tickyul If you've kept up with some articles, China and Japan have offered to provide California with loans to help pay for the system. What CA could do is first build the project under state supervision. Once established, the system should start generating some net surplus. Like I said before, Japan's system payed itself off in 1971. That's less then 10 years of operation! In '87, the Shinkansen operators were privatized, and were no longer a burden to taxpayers.

[tickyul]

@th3gtr Hahaha, this line start generating a net surplus.....god one. You mean after all of the costs from operations and loan payments there is going to be a little left over....haha, good one. We are going to borrow this money at what rate.....probably pretty high, California's finances are looking pretty shaky. This LIGHT RAIL system (yes, it will mainly operate at light rail speeds) has Las Vegas written all over it.

[th3gtr]

@tickyul Shinkansen operations are actually subsidizing local lines! So while Shinkansen is helping to pay for the local lines, the local lines are providing Shinkansen with riders who switch from local trains to Shinkansen trains in transfer terminals. Local lines and high-speed lines can have mutual relationship. CA HSR (mutual relationship) BART, Caltran, bus lines, MUNI if HSR stops at 4th n King St.

[th3gtr]

@tickyul In front of me, I have a 75 page 1992 TGV-Atlantique report by UCB that I've read through. I've read through every single stinkin' page (except the bibliography and looked at every diagram. I am going to turn to page 70. "TGV-PSE Financial History" 1)Year: 1981-Net Surplus: -144 million Francs  2)Year: 1982-Net Surplus: -242 million Francs 3)Year: 1983-Net Surplus: -54 million Francs 4)Year: 1984-Net Surplus: 401 From this year on the net surplus keeps rising.

[th3gtr]

@tickyul As for light rail, do you really think taxpayers would pay $40 billion for a transtate light rail system? (lol) They would have to build a system to standards a lot higher than light rail to get people from LA to SF in 2hr 30min.

[tickyul]

@th3gtr Where do you get 40 billion from, the state propagandists, they are not even close to the mark and they know it. The terrain coming from Sf to La is quite poor, would cost a trillion to lay proper HSR tracks. Even if they could lay good Hsr tracks in areas, lots of slowing for REQUIRED twists and turns in the tracks. This beast is just another boondoggle.

[th3gtr]

@tickyul It would not cost a trillion dollars, buy definitely less than 1/10 that. No sh-t there will be turns. But the radius for them will be quite large. It is possible that this line can make a surplus. That's why they're not building it in the middle of freakin' nowhere, b/c there would no demand for it in the middle of nowhere. What's your source where it says the trains will run at light rail speeds? What do u mean Las Vegas? I'm talking about the SF to LA line, not the Desert Xpress.

[th3gtr]

@tickyul Come to think of it, I swear I've already answered your complaint about about the turns. The lowest standard turn radius for the oldest high-speed train line in the world, the Great Tokaido Shinkansen, is 2500 m. You have to remember that the Tokaido Shinkansen was built 45+ years ago. They didn't expect trains to be running as fast as they are now. We have the advantage to build ahead of time a line that can accommodate operating speeds of 220 mph and possibly higher.

[th3gtr]

@tickyul

"The Railroad Story" (unfair treatment of railroads) part 1

"The Railroad Story" (unfair treatment of railroads) part 2

"The Railroad Story" (unfair treatment of railroads) part 3

[WayOvertaxed]

Never mind now. It's not going to happen since California is on the very edge of Bankruptcy. Because CA's congress didn't pass a proper budget, the state's credit rating will be lowered to Junk-Bond status...i.e. NO way of ever funding this project! The good news is they'll STILL find a way to pay for welfare, section-8 housing, food stamps, child care, college aid, pre-K to 12 schooling, breakfast-lunch programs, prison housing, etc. etc. etc. for the 16+ MILLION ILLEGAL aliens in our state.

[artyphax]

How do we stop stupid people from being hit by these high speed trains? Drunks, dogs, cats, birds?

[nsayer]

The same way they did it for BART: By making the entire system grade-separated and fenced in.

[s2k997]

Indeed. The French LGV system, their entire high speed rail network, had no crossings on the level, over or under only. Stops idiots being idiots, and jumping the lights, as there's no way any human can see a 300 Km/h train coming...

[sideslide23]

there wont be any grade crossing on any high speed rail, they will be build just like the Free way system whare theres no stop signs and traffic lights so thats how there going to build it.

[sideslide23]

the high speed rail are either going to be tunnel dig like the subway or there going to be elevated and trenched like the freeway system so grad crossing won't be needed just like the freeway system whare light and stopsigns are not needed.

[Modeltrainguy]

The 1 Hour PBS TV Program "NOVA", highlighted that VERY plan to bring Bullet Trains to California:

"Tracking The Supertrains

While America's passenger-train service deteriorates, trains in Japan and Europe are speeding ahead at over 150 miles per hour. NOVA reports that the super-fast trains are finally coming to America.

Original broadcast date: 12/14/82

Topic: technology/engineering"

[poseidoncambria]

Would you happen to know where I can see or buy that episode?

[airburger9]

That Caltrain just got owned by the High Speed Train.

[Modeltrainguy]

As much as Californians want High Speed Rail...I hope it happens soon. Not JUST for California, but for America as a whole. Look at other countries that have HSR:

Japan - The size of California.

South Korea - About the same size as Minnesota.

Spain - Slightly more than twice the size of Oregon.

France - slightly less than double the size of Colorado.

Taiwan - Slightly larger than the states of Maryland & Delaware combined.

Think about it...THOUSANDS of American jobs!

[antwanp]

France is actually a little bit larger than Texas.

[sideslide23]

yeah accept their TGV travels from London to Paris so how big is this?

[gibb1991]

@sideslide23: The Eurostar goes from London to Paris, not TGV. But TGV goes many more places than that. Bordauex, Berlin, Brussels, Lyon, (Switzerlandand the Netherlands through sub-networks), Avignon, Rennes, and Marseille to name a few. Mind that I only listed TGV, not other companies like DB, Renfe, Thalys, and others.

[sideslide23]

sorry I was watching Mission imposible, in the movie, they've used the TGV for the Eurostar rout.

[wiillamefreitas]

@sideslide23

[excimero]

speed 180mph?

[gibb1991]

@excimero: California would be 220 mph.

[Modeltrainguy]

Stunning! O__O Sadly, too many RR CEO's did NOT want to spend the money on the project. Neither did the American Government. They sided with car manufacturers. Only now is the pain coming.

[marsahmars]

That's really sux..... Japan has such train back in 1964 ;p

[DaaYay]

Support your nearest High Speed Rail projects: (Remove/close spaces) bwmaglev (dot) com cahighspeedrail (dot) com calmaglev (dot) org fra (dot) dot (dot) gov/us/content/661 floridahighspeedrail (dot) org indianahighspeedrail (dot) org midwesthsr (dot) org thsrtc (dot) com dot (dot) wisconsin. gov/projects/d1/hsrail/ sehsr (dot) org

[alanafalcon]

Hi speed rail!!! I CAN'T WAIT!!! :)

[mikokat]

You'll have to wait until at least 2020! Goddamn government always has to drag this out as long as possible.

[DaaYay]

Mostly Big OIL is to blame! "Supposedly" the Oil, and Auto industry is backing this project in part mostly to reduce Global Warming and maybe take some blame off of them. But who knows, maybe they're just lieing! I know Southwest Airlines despises this project because they do A LOT of fly's to and from SF & LA.

[raghavpradeep]

Wat an osm video.. is it a real one.. or virtual reality.. very futuristic n clean 4 sure..

[PanGottardo]

This is not a serious question, is it?! :oO