You would think this was a dispute over the Beatles song catalog. Relax...it's just some z-level music...no need to get all worked up. (srry, not offense) PUNK ROCK 2012!!
I remember seeing this when it originally aired! I recorded it on a cassette tape.
The guitar is so awesome, just relentless. I love it! And i know what it feels like to have music stolen from me. I have sat and watched bands play my music and not even have the courtesy to say "and right there is the guy that wrote this song". Some have even been released on CD's and i was given no credit! That's why i don't trust musicians. Sorry but what a bunch of theiving magpies.
Yeah Frankensteins lp is great, so there go your claims of 'talentness'. This material also pisses over the VC ep, had it ever been released it would have made VC first division players of Deathrock, this is way ahead, amongst the best. Why was it never released, the ep is great but this encorporates miles more than the catchy pop of the ep......
Dave Grave is full of shit. Only a dumbass IDIOT would listen to his lies! Dave obviously harbors resentment and hostility because Tina made Voodoo Church such a big success and dave is jealous of ANYONE that out shines him. Dave Claims in this video that there is a "Dispute and it is being Contested"...hahaha. Dave has been claiming this for a few years and yet Voodoo Church continues to release CD's? Why? Because dave is full of Lies and shit! Dave is a Lier!
i think that this isint considered voodoo church! the only reason that people know about voodoo church in the first place is because of the firsl LP soooooo if you wanna look at this nonsense and say its better then EYES or LIVE WITH THE DEAD or even anything off the new stuff then you might as well go suck dave graves dick! because this is jst plain out not good! non of you know whats actually goin on between them and stop actin like you all do! stupid kids
Haha. Does dave really think he is that important in the community that anyone gives a rats ass about this old video. Maybe he should check the Calendar...1981 has been gone for many many years. Time to move on dude!!
As of December 11 2009 TheRobertReimar has removed his most self-incriminating defamatory statements about Mr Grave, but has curiously left up his false claims about authorship of music that are already denied by previous members. Unfortunately for Bob and Tina, these files have already been sent to an attorney representing Mr Grave in Los Angeles.
Bob and Tina's childish games have already hanged themselves. Guess they should have worked this out with Mr Grave when they had the chance.
@Frankenlegion13 You are the MOST seriously fucked up person I have ever had the displeasure of nearly meeting.
Seriously, did you really think that you would get away with this? You clearly and openly STOLE this property like you did every thing else? Why? Oh, because you have 00000 talent. All the talent involved with YOU or your so called hilariously riduculous band was built upon others talent.
@Frankenlegion13 You are, quite possibly, the stupidest human on this planet. You are the MOST seriously fucked up person I have ever had the displeasure of nearly meeting.
Seriously, did you really think that you would get away with this? You clearly and openly STOLE this property like you did every thing else? Why? Oh, because you have 00000 talent. All the talent involved with YOU or your so called hilariously riduculous band was built upon others talent.
DAVE GRAVE, is a LIEING PIECE OF SHIT!!! Dave you are as much a drug user as Charlie Sheen and you rant bullshit just like him. Dave is a lier, Any one that believes this fool is an idiot. He's an old man that is envious of Tina!! You are a useless WANKER DAVE!!!
I also feel Dave is REALLY obsessed with Tina! A sick-strange obsessed. Look at the time he puts into his little green text above. (nobody cares about any of that junior high rant) Seriously its interesting ALL the time he puts into her.
When you don't like someone a mature person would just let it go and ignore, but he's taken it to a morbid obsession and SOME people are totally drawn to her now. They love so-called bad girls, evil women. I know guys that get hard on over girls like this!!!
No disrespect, but the Voodoo Church that was Dave, Tina and karla was another place and time! We're not talking a month ago, year ago, 6,7,10 years ago. It's a long time ago. Tina was also the singer back then. Dave and Karla after they left VC, formed their own band; "BoneCult" I heard?
Tina had the right to continue where she already was! Period! Tina/Voodoo Church is huge in other countries and that won't change. Do you really think she gives a rats ass with any of this? Doubtful.
By the way, are you even aware that in response to Tinas disgraceful behaviour and claims, Karla D'Karla, Scott Russell and Steve Schermerhorn (former Zombie Legion), have provided Mr Grave with recordings of both ZL and VC (which Dave has used to secure his copywrites), and, along with Ron Whitaker, support his side of the story. The question is why after 20-30 years, YOU suddenly claim authorship of Daves songs/music?
I find it interesting that your recent rants/personal attacks on Dave come just as a new VC album is being released. I can smell the stench of your personal grudge from here! You and your online cohorts should 'grow up' and just admit the truth... but then you'd have to admit the lie. What a strange, bitter, and pathetic man you must be.
And you have the sack to talk about 'cyber-bullying'?
And when did YOU get back into the back into the band (which hasnt played a show since July 15 08), 2006, 2007? Yours and Tinas stories are increasingly full of holes!
She also began publishing false, misleading, and defamatory statements attempting to discredit Dave and his role in founding the original VC, including emails to the European promoters who book Dave and Frankensteins tours. Threatened with legal action Tina filed her fraudulent trademark application which has since drawn the attention of 4 attourneys and the former president of the Songwriters Guild, all of whom support Daves claim as shown by his documentation. THIS is how this all started.
Dave again told Tina not to use the VC name, but 2 years later Tina pops with the 'new' VC, her early websites playing up the bands connection with Dave and his 'must see Frankenstein' (WHOs riding on WHOs coat-tails?).
Since that time Tina's 'new' VC have only played a half dozen shows (including her one WGT gig as an opening act which she billed as a 'European Tour') and released the poorly received 84 album as a CD and promptly fired the band after WGT except her current husband Randy.
The following month Tina began asking Dave if he could set up a VC reunion show in LA. YOU declined and were to be replaced by William Faith. As a show and recording were being set up, Tinas petty subterfuge (two-faced emails etc) caused the promoter (who knew VC in its original days), William, and Dave to pull out, re-establishing Tinas well-deserved reputation for treachery and deceit. Tina Winter has always been VCs and her own worst enemy!
By the time Dave had put together his new band the VC name had gained such a poor reputation it was barely worth using. You and Tina must have thought so, because you abandonned the VC name and started over as Primal Voices in 83 (recording a batch of new songs as well as several of Daves). Nobody was interested and you dropped out of the scene until Jan 2000, or have you forgotten the little reunion at the Simi Valley Dennys between you, Tina, Ron Whitaker and Mr Grave?
Over the next 8 months you played a handful of shows, released the EP (as Voo-doo Church, hoping to avoid trademark infrigement...WRONG!, recorded over Daves Zombie Legion recordings) and the band failed! The public and local press recognised the rip-off.
You also omit that by May 82 you and Tina began working with Jeff Porter to form a new band with Tina as singer.
Dave fronted VC for the last time June 15 82 (as reported in the LA Weekly) and, owing to the situation created by you and Tina, left the band in July, stating his intent to recreate his band Voodoo Church by Fall. YOU and Tina stole the name Voodoo Church, fired Karla DKarla (the last original member still in the band) and performed your show August 4 82.
You did not perform with the band again until May 21 82 after you and Tina fired second guitarist Chris Trent since you refused to work with another guitarist in the band and Chris was learning the band set on bass to replace Tina. Tina then refused to show at a June 8 gig at the Hollywood Tropicana and threatened to continue this childish tactic until the band gave in to 'her way', jeopardising an offer from A&M Records arranged by Mr Grave.
Question where were you when this video was shot? Or VCs headline show at the Whisky-a-go-go the same month, or the show the following March at the Grandiar Room? YOU quit voluntarily in January 82 and Dave let you back in. It is common knowledge Tina refused to show up for a Dec 19 81 show at Godzillas trying to force 'her way' on the band and was threatened with being kicked out. You conveniently omit this fact.
Dave left of his own accord 27 years ago and has not been associated with anything VC has done since. All the facts he states in this video can be proved false. Why doesn't he post Boneyard the way it was recorded? This should not be a venue for propaganda. Let the music speak for itself. YouTube should be used for what it was intended for, entertainment, & should not be a vehicle to spread hatred. Leave your personal life out of this and just post the music.
Like what was said on another comment . " Lets look at the facts! Dave "Voluntarily" left Voodoo Church, formed a new band, But (Years later) claims Voodoo Church was stolen from him." Hmmm, that is odd. Because IF Voodoo Church meant so much to Dave, why didn't he legally take ownership of the name 25 yrs ago!?
I go to Release the bats, my friends there even, the important ones roll their eyes when Dave Grave starts his ranting. As for this Ancient video above, its clear that dave has deliberately taken out of content the words there are no recordings with dave. Its obvious the meaning behind that statement was no recordings of Albums/ Cds, which is true! Since Dave is NOT on any of Voodoo Churchs public albums/cd, then there are NO recordings of him on theirstuff. Dave grow up.
Ok, lets all be peaceful. I really think Voodoo Church can make it up to Dave by dedicating a song to him in behalf of this above video, called BONEHEAD!!!
Lets look at the facts. Dave Voluntarily left Voodoo Church, formed a new band, then (Years later) claims Voodoo Church was stolen from him. He comes out now with this claim just before VC's 3rd CD is about to come out? That is just stupid! Also, Voodoo Church has never used any of Daves songs, but Dave has used Rob's songs and never gave him any credit. That is stealing! Don't forget Dave WAS the bass player when Tina was singing.
This is correct! Dave isnt' going to turn away tina's (VC) fans.
Dave is being a 'Cyberbully' and that is uncalled for! Why doesnt he spend more time dealing with the band he has been in for OVER 27 YEARS- FRANKENSTEIN.
Stop harassing Tina and her band! This video is obviously placed here on purpose...and still her fans don't give a shit about dave grave!!! Give it up!
Hey this video states that dave grave left the band. So whats his game. He's been in another band "Frankenstein" for over 27 years, hasnt he? So who cares about this video. This video was from so long ago- Dave LEFT voodoo church - but after all these years he trying to claim the band was stolen from him? If VC meant so much to Dave WHY didnt he ever bring it back years ago??? He didn't because he started his own new band. Meanwhile VC continued.
First Tina Winter steals the name Voodoo Church, now Rob Reimar tries to steal credit for Dave Graves bands and songs? WHOs a pathelogical liar and thief? Tina Winter and Rob Reimar are two cheeks of the poseur ass, and should stop trying to discredit Mr Grave and embarassing themselves. Pathetic!
What does a balding man pushing 60 do when a 27-year-old video surfaces, exposing the lies he and his ex-wife have spread for years? He hides behind the internet and his ex-wifes skirt, and posts a tantrum of personal attacks and new lies to hide the cracks in their constantly changing stories.
Look pretty obvious someones not being truthful. I remember this band. Interesting how vicious the threats have flown over a name, and they all cant be friends. Maybe the band did go one in a different direction, its always important to remember your roots, your history and what would it hurt to acknowledge the beginning of the band, unless you're hiding something ? Threats of destroying former recordings? Thats ridicules. Sounds like ego trips. Grow up, embrace your past and share it.
What is great to see first hand is how Dave Grave spreads all his abuse and when people who know the truth stand up for themselves, you call it Abusive? What? The truth is, why is dave crying over spilled milk after all these years. These people in VC have nothing to do with Dave grave, but when he starts HIS raft of abuse, I don't see why anyone would tolerate it. Get Real! Yes, this silly little video and the statements its making is abusive and we can make up our own mind on it.
Seems to me it's not Dave displaying the threatening behaviour here.
I've heard about the abuse given to people who have talked about Dave Grave's involvement in VC for many years. Its really interesting to see it in real life.
The raft of abusive comments below have convinced me that Rob Reimar and his cronies are a bunch of abusive assholes.
Its great to be able to see it first hand and make my own mind up.
msAmused wrote: "abuse given to people who have talked about Dave Grave's involvement in VC for many years. Dear! Now that is funny. Considering he played NO Significant part in VC's success. Or Perhaps the truth is the band wants to forget the nightmare he was...and still is! Proof from the above video "Lie" of trademark disputes. ?
I worked for a notary, copyrght. The government doesn't dispute!! Sorry you have been lied to again by dave. Dave really loves his own drama.
The Government office of TradeMarks, gives an individual ownership of a name from, lots of proof that the person is the ONLY one using it- as with VoodooChurch, Tina is. And lots of proof of their product such as, Albums/CD's, T-shirts, Bags, Stickers...Whatever it may be. And shes the singer for years now. So it was rightfully and "Legally" given to her by Attorneys at the U.S Trademark Offices! And the name would have had to be available, it was.
You must be a notary without a clue. I happen to work in music promotion and I am fully aware that Trademarks are awarded by first use and first use in commerce. Tina's trademark is listed as August 15th 1981 (presumably the recordings featuring Dave that Rob Reimar has threatened to destroy and Tina has stated don't exist), and first use in commerce as May 1st 1982.
Tina's Trademark claim is disproven by the fact that Dave Grave produced stickers featuring the bands logo by him in May 1981, performed on the August 15th 1981 recordings and first used the name in commerce at their November 1st 1981 debut show at the ON Klub. As for the May 1982 date - Dave was still fronting the band (at the Grandia Room June 15th 1982) written up in the La Weekly as 'Voodoo Church, featuring King of the Ghoul Hair-do Rockers Dave Grave'.
Then there's the question of Tina's statement in an email to William Faith dated October 10th 2000 of 'Voodoo Church, which happens to be Dave's name'. It is a simple fact that Sec.28 of the Lanham Act states that 'claimant forfeits right of mark by use of fraudulent means to procure registration', and 'use is not in good faith and used without permission'.
This, among others, is the reason Dave's case has been granted a number by the USPTO trials and appeals board.
P.S. This guy Dave Grave, has a Pattern of threatening people- mainly lead singers..Like my friend Sean from "London After Midnight", you'll find proof of that, because Sean made statements about it! Dave also threatened the late beloved Rozz Williams and continues to withTina and her band Voodoo Church.
Tina is good friends with Christian Death & Eva O. they remember Dave trying to CUT rozz's hair out of rage!! Dave Grave clearly needs Mental Help! The ONLY lier here, is Dave.
As a DJ, in the U.S & Europe, I play a lot of music. This lame video above proves nothng other then, dave was in VC for all of 3 seconds! Whats his point?!? Listening to this, Im glad Tina took over the vocals. Back then...Tina was ALSO lead vocalist, NOT only dave! Tina has been in Voodoo Church for 28yrs, she has 3 Albums to her Credit and European Comp albums. (i play them) Nobody has been as involved in VC to the level in which tina has! Dave is clearly disconnected to "reality"!
I'm a little confused, did Frankenstein breakup? As I recall, Dave has been in the band Frankenstein forever, over 26 years? And its true, Dave hasnt been on any Voodoo Church records.
The user who said "valor" just meen he like the "2" VC,His peaceful and just meen he dislike this band war situation.why you attack him? I remember you guys attacking alot of peoples i know on a board when they just ask why you sell your ep 800$ on ebay,That's what i meen VC = a bunch of cunts who seem to think you are superior to everyone...pure rock star attitude
TheRobertReimer Can you please fuck off and go cry somewhere else...Only that video alone is SUCH better then all the other VC craps put together..Late VC is just pure fucking rock stars mainstream craps...successful? Brithney spear is successful do that meen she have talent? lol thats all you guys (VC) care being famous and successful...$
A job? Musicians don't need no stinking jobs. For a video with 400 views there sure are a lot of comments. It's 27 years old. It's fun to watch. Get over it. Reminds me how fun it was to make music back then before record deals and concerns about trademarks and cash. Boy are those days gone. And 27 years later this video gets 400 views and people blow gaskets Get real. Dave was your friend back then. It's a snapshot. It's fun to watch.
I was there back in the day...and i remember tina also sang for voodoo church. I remember mark splatter saying something a few year ago that dave was only in voodoo church for a very short time. This is clearly an "early" version of voodoo church......but this video has nothing to do with when voodoo church was established when the EP was released.
Oh, and people, please remember that all music performed by the Schizo's except for two songs (Cool Surfin' and Baby Godzilla), all music performed by Zombie Legion was either written or arranged (In My Room, Love Potiion #9, Secret Agent Man, etc) by me, and all music performed by Voodoo Church during the few months that Dave Retard(o) was involved with the band was written by ME. This liar would have you believe otherwise, or you might as well move to Guyana and drink cyanide Kool Aid.
I never intended a Rozz/Dave comparison as people, however you should simply release this material, this video is awesome, it would be a tragedy for it to be left in the vaults because of this arguement.
I am aware of the Rozz Dave incident however you guys have just used this as a big personal anti Dave tirade, which technically is attempted bullying with all these personal comments.
I think your actions speak for themselves, not once have you suggested any compromise.
I'm gonna leave these comments up because I want the world to know what rubbish these people spout.
Everything on this video is supported by documentation that i have seen personally. This is through magazines and emails sent by Tina and Rob themselves.
Sorry they think Voodoo Church has been more successful than Frankenstein. I don't think so!
Everything written on this video is a lie. 1) he did not "disband" VC. He left because he was (and probably still is, a pompous jackass, and nobody wanted him around. If he "disbanded VC, why did they go on to record the EP, which he was extremely jealous of? 2) Tina did not "attempt" to trademark the name Voodoo Church, she DID trademark it. I have seen the paperwork, and it is legal). 3) I did not ever state that I would destroy master tapes of VC. This is a complete fabrication.
Let me start with this, Dave Naegeli is a liar and a thief. I am Bob Reimer, and a REAL member of Voodoo Church. The butt-pipe who posted this is a "wannabe" poseur, who THINKS he created Voodoo Church. He has illegally copyrighted the music for this song, Music was written by me, originally under the title "Mirror Image". Dave's lyrics fit better, so we used those. This is not the first time this human crotch has done this, the last time was with a song called "Flesh Garage". More later.
I think you risk putting yourselves in a Valor Kand type situation and should reach some compromise and allow to this material to be released.
As a bit of a Deathrock geek, you guys (VC) are good, I look forward to your new album, but Dave ain't talentless, the Frankenstein album matches anything VC did and that's fact. Plain and simple.
This is as good as the EP later released. I think however TW owns the name fair enough, but release this for heaven's sake, it is too good, don't slip into a Valor situation.
I would urge both parties to reach some amicable agreement. Both VC and Frankenstein are truly great bands, I belive both should carry on as they are, but this material should be released as acnowledgement of VCs' original roots, it is a crime of time not to.
This is awesome footage, a great example of those times. It is great as are the two other VC releases, however if there are recordings of this stuff, VC should allow its' release this is far too good to be held in storage or limbo of petty dispute.
You would think this was a dispute over the Beatles song catalog. Relax...it's just some z-level music...no need to get all worked up. (srry, not offense) PUNK ROCK 2012!!
fvalen001 1 week ago
This is fucking rad...Dave's voice is perfect for this...reminds me of Rick Elerick's
aupsychobilly 1 month ago
I remember seeing this when it originally aired! I recorded it on a cassette tape.
The guitar is so awesome, just relentless. I love it! And i know what it feels like to have music stolen from me. I have sat and watched bands play my music and not even have the courtesy to say "and right there is the guy that wrote this song". Some have even been released on CD's and i was given no credit! That's why i don't trust musicians. Sorry but what a bunch of theiving magpies.
vegetasrevenge 6 months ago
Voodoo Church were/are a lot better than this.
Interesting footage, anyway. Thanks for posting.
jasonledyard1 6 months ago
Wow - that really is Dave Grave. FRANKENSTEIN rules!!!!
planetwaaagh 7 months ago
Ahhh, just ran into Dave after nearly 23 years! Good to see him and still in the same neighborhood!
JJBGirl1967 8 months ago
Yeah Frankensteins lp is great, so there go your claims of 'talentness'. This material also pisses over the VC ep, had it ever been released it would have made VC first division players of Deathrock, this is way ahead, amongst the best. Why was it never released, the ep is great but this encorporates miles more than the catchy pop of the ep......
lazrs4 1 year ago
rise above people, just rise above...
makesnoodds 1 year ago
walking in the boneyard after midnight....
ZFlicka 1 year ago
Hey kiddies, have some drugs and mellow out.
BorderAmigos 1 year ago
Dave Grave is full of shit. Only a dumbass IDIOT would listen to his lies! Dave obviously harbors resentment and hostility because Tina made Voodoo Church such a big success and dave is jealous of ANYONE that out shines him. Dave Claims in this video that there is a "Dispute and it is being Contested"...hahaha. Dave has been claiming this for a few years and yet Voodoo Church continues to release CD's? Why? Because dave is full of Lies and shit! Dave is a Lier!
TheFinalekiss 2 years ago
i think that this isint considered voodoo church! the only reason that people know about voodoo church in the first place is because of the firsl LP soooooo if you wanna look at this nonsense and say its better then EYES or LIVE WITH THE DEAD or even anything off the new stuff then you might as well go suck dave graves dick! because this is jst plain out not good! non of you know whats actually goin on between them and stop actin like you all do! stupid kids
asdel65 2 years ago
Comment removed
Batty009 2 years ago
Haha. Does dave really think he is that important in the community that anyone gives a rats ass about this old video. Maybe he should check the Calendar...1981 has been gone for many many years. Time to move on dude!!
EuroBaby666 2 years ago
i dont think "nazi" scum are welcome here...
ThePunkPostPunkTribe 2 years ago
wow, do you have any other old voodoo church clips?
newwavepop 2 years ago 2
As of December 11 2009 TheRobertReimar has removed his most self-incriminating defamatory statements about Mr Grave, but has curiously left up his false claims about authorship of music that are already denied by previous members. Unfortunately for Bob and Tina, these files have already been sent to an attorney representing Mr Grave in Los Angeles.
Bob and Tina's childish games have already hanged themselves. Guess they should have worked this out with Mr Grave when they had the chance.
Frankenlegion13 2 years ago
@Frankenlegion13 You are the MOST seriously fucked up person I have ever had the displeasure of nearly meeting.
Seriously, did you really think that you would get away with this? You clearly and openly STOLE this property like you did every thing else? Why? Oh, because you have 00000 talent. All the talent involved with YOU or your so called hilariously riduculous band was built upon others talent.
dreimer1217 1 year ago
@Frankenlegion13 You are, quite possibly, the stupidest human on this planet. You are the MOST seriously fucked up person I have ever had the displeasure of nearly meeting.
Seriously, did you really think that you would get away with this? You clearly and openly STOLE this property like you did every thing else? Why? Oh, because you have 00000 talent. All the talent involved with YOU or your so called hilariously riduculous band was built upon others talent.
dreimer1217 1 year ago
@Frankenlegion13
snbkr81 1 year ago
@Frankenlegion13
DAVE GRAVE, is a LIEING PIECE OF SHIT!!! Dave you are as much a drug user as Charlie Sheen and you rant bullshit just like him. Dave is a lier, Any one that believes this fool is an idiot. He's an old man that is envious of Tina!! You are a useless WANKER DAVE!!!
snbkr81 1 year ago
@snbkr81 Ha ha thanks for such factual information.
Frankenstein were great last night, great frontman, great band.
lazrs4 11 months ago
Y no ahi mas canciones de Voodoo Church con Dave Graves?
YarziniaPestis 2 years ago
hi dave.
futuristfood 2 years ago
I also feel Dave is REALLY obsessed with Tina! A sick-strange obsessed. Look at the time he puts into his little green text above. (nobody cares about any of that junior high rant) Seriously its interesting ALL the time he puts into her.
When you don't like someone a mature person would just let it go and ignore, but he's taken it to a morbid obsession and SOME people are totally drawn to her now. They love so-called bad girls, evil women. I know guys that get hard on over girls like this!!!
batsdancerbingo 2 years ago
Comment removed
testtubeboy 2 years ago
No disrespect, but the Voodoo Church that was Dave, Tina and karla was another place and time! We're not talking a month ago, year ago, 6,7,10 years ago. It's a long time ago. Tina was also the singer back then. Dave and Karla after they left VC, formed their own band; "BoneCult" I heard?
Tina had the right to continue where she already was! Period! Tina/Voodoo Church is huge in other countries and that won't change. Do you really think she gives a rats ass with any of this? Doubtful.
batsdancerbingo 2 years ago
By the way, are you even aware that in response to Tinas disgraceful behaviour and claims, Karla D'Karla, Scott Russell and Steve Schermerhorn (former Zombie Legion), have provided Mr Grave with recordings of both ZL and VC (which Dave has used to secure his copywrites), and, along with Ron Whitaker, support his side of the story. The question is why after 20-30 years, YOU suddenly claim authorship of Daves songs/music?
Frankenlegion13 2 years ago
Comment removed
djnightcreature 2 years ago
I find it interesting that your recent rants/personal attacks on Dave come just as a new VC album is being released. I can smell the stench of your personal grudge from here! You and your online cohorts should 'grow up' and just admit the truth... but then you'd have to admit the lie. What a strange, bitter, and pathetic man you must be.
Frankenlegion13 2 years ago
And you have the sack to talk about 'cyber-bullying'?
And when did YOU get back into the back into the band (which hasnt played a show since July 15 08), 2006, 2007? Yours and Tinas stories are increasingly full of holes!
Frankenlegion13 2 years ago
She also began publishing false, misleading, and defamatory statements attempting to discredit Dave and his role in founding the original VC, including emails to the European promoters who book Dave and Frankensteins tours. Threatened with legal action Tina filed her fraudulent trademark application which has since drawn the attention of 4 attourneys and the former president of the Songwriters Guild, all of whom support Daves claim as shown by his documentation. THIS is how this all started.
Frankenlegion13 2 years ago
Dave again told Tina not to use the VC name, but 2 years later Tina pops with the 'new' VC, her early websites playing up the bands connection with Dave and his 'must see Frankenstein' (WHOs riding on WHOs coat-tails?).
Since that time Tina's 'new' VC have only played a half dozen shows (including her one WGT gig as an opening act which she billed as a 'European Tour') and released the poorly received 84 album as a CD and promptly fired the band after WGT except her current husband Randy.
Frankenlegion13 2 years ago
The following month Tina began asking Dave if he could set up a VC reunion show in LA. YOU declined and were to be replaced by William Faith. As a show and recording were being set up, Tinas petty subterfuge (two-faced emails etc) caused the promoter (who knew VC in its original days), William, and Dave to pull out, re-establishing Tinas well-deserved reputation for treachery and deceit. Tina Winter has always been VCs and her own worst enemy!
Frankenlegion13 2 years ago
By the time Dave had put together his new band the VC name had gained such a poor reputation it was barely worth using. You and Tina must have thought so, because you abandonned the VC name and started over as Primal Voices in 83 (recording a batch of new songs as well as several of Daves). Nobody was interested and you dropped out of the scene until Jan 2000, or have you forgotten the little reunion at the Simi Valley Dennys between you, Tina, Ron Whitaker and Mr Grave?
Frankenlegion13 2 years ago
Over the next 8 months you played a handful of shows, released the EP (as Voo-doo Church, hoping to avoid trademark infrigement...WRONG!, recorded over Daves Zombie Legion recordings) and the band failed! The public and local press recognised the rip-off.
Frankenlegion13 2 years ago
You also omit that by May 82 you and Tina began working with Jeff Porter to form a new band with Tina as singer.
Dave fronted VC for the last time June 15 82 (as reported in the LA Weekly) and, owing to the situation created by you and Tina, left the band in July, stating his intent to recreate his band Voodoo Church by Fall. YOU and Tina stole the name Voodoo Church, fired Karla DKarla (the last original member still in the band) and performed your show August 4 82.
Frankenlegion13 2 years ago
You did not perform with the band again until May 21 82 after you and Tina fired second guitarist Chris Trent since you refused to work with another guitarist in the band and Chris was learning the band set on bass to replace Tina. Tina then refused to show at a June 8 gig at the Hollywood Tropicana and threatened to continue this childish tactic until the band gave in to 'her way', jeopardising an offer from A&M Records arranged by Mr Grave.
Frankenlegion13 2 years ago
T o Rob Reimar and Tina Winter, by proxy
Question where were you when this video was shot? Or VCs headline show at the Whisky-a-go-go the same month, or the show the following March at the Grandiar Room? YOU quit voluntarily in January 82 and Dave let you back in. It is common knowledge Tina refused to show up for a Dec 19 81 show at Godzillas trying to force 'her way' on the band and was threatened with being kicked out. You conveniently omit this fact.
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Frankenlegion13 2 years ago
PISS OFF!! You aren't the REAL Voodoo Church! The Voodoo Church Tina has sang in for many, many years!
tubeschristians 2 years ago
To Mr Psychobillygoat,
Dave left of his own accord 27 years ago and has not been associated with anything VC has done since. All the facts he states in this video can be proved false. Why doesn't he post Boneyard the way it was recorded? This should not be a venue for propaganda. Let the music speak for itself. YouTube should be used for what it was intended for, entertainment, & should not be a vehicle to spread hatred. Leave your personal life out of this and just post the music.
TheRobertReimer 2 years ago 2
TheRobertReimer,
You said it perfectly.
MrPsychobillygoat 2 years ago
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TheRobertReimer 2 years ago
Like what was said on another comment . " Lets look at the facts! Dave "Voluntarily" left Voodoo Church, formed a new band, But (Years later) claims Voodoo Church was stolen from him." Hmmm, that is odd. Because IF Voodoo Church meant so much to Dave, why didn't he legally take ownership of the name 25 yrs ago!?
Must not of been that important to him......
MrPsychobillygoat 2 years ago
Also, the C.D fans don't find it too cool what dave did to rozz.
OlafKuntz 2 years ago 2
I go to Release the bats, my friends there even, the important ones roll their eyes when Dave Grave starts his ranting. As for this Ancient video above, its clear that dave has deliberately taken out of content the words there are no recordings with dave. Its obvious the meaning behind that statement was no recordings of Albums/ Cds, which is true! Since Dave is NOT on any of Voodoo Churchs public albums/cd, then there are NO recordings of him on theirstuff. Dave grow up.
batsdancerbingo 2 years ago 2
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lazrs4 2 years ago
Ok, lets all be peaceful. I really think Voodoo Church can make it up to Dave by dedicating a song to him in behalf of this above video, called BONEHEAD!!!
djnightcreature 2 years ago
Lets look at the facts. Dave Voluntarily left Voodoo Church, formed a new band, then (Years later) claims Voodoo Church was stolen from him. He comes out now with this claim just before VC's 3rd CD is about to come out? That is just stupid! Also, Voodoo Church has never used any of Daves songs, but Dave has used Rob's songs and never gave him any credit. That is stealing! Don't forget Dave WAS the bass player when Tina was singing.
tomtbird1 2 years ago 5
This is correct! Dave isnt' going to turn away tina's (VC) fans.
Dave is being a 'Cyberbully' and that is uncalled for! Why doesnt he spend more time dealing with the band he has been in for OVER 27 YEARS- FRANKENSTEIN.
Stop harassing Tina and her band! This video is obviously placed here on purpose...and still her fans don't give a shit about dave grave!!! Give it up!
MrPsychobillygoat 2 years ago
Hey this video states that dave grave left the band. So whats his game. He's been in another band "Frankenstein" for over 27 years, hasnt he? So who cares about this video. This video was from so long ago- Dave LEFT voodoo church - but after all these years he trying to claim the band was stolen from him? If VC meant so much to Dave WHY didnt he ever bring it back years ago??? He didn't because he started his own new band. Meanwhile VC continued.
tomtbird1 2 years ago
First Tina Winter steals the name Voodoo Church, now Rob Reimar tries to steal credit for Dave Graves bands and songs? WHOs a pathelogical liar and thief? Tina Winter and Rob Reimar are two cheeks of the poseur ass, and should stop trying to discredit Mr Grave and embarassing themselves. Pathetic!
MsMartina17 2 years ago
What does a balding man pushing 60 do when a 27-year-old video surfaces, exposing the lies he and his ex-wife have spread for years? He hides behind the internet and his ex-wifes skirt, and posts a tantrum of personal attacks and new lies to hide the cracks in their constantly changing stories.
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MsMartina17 2 years ago
Look pretty obvious someones not being truthful. I remember this band. Interesting how vicious the threats have flown over a name, and they all cant be friends. Maybe the band did go one in a different direction, its always important to remember your roots, your history and what would it hurt to acknowledge the beginning of the band, unless you're hiding something ? Threats of destroying former recordings? Thats ridicules. Sounds like ego trips. Grow up, embrace your past and share it.
cherielynnae 2 years ago
What is great to see first hand is how Dave Grave spreads all his abuse and when people who know the truth stand up for themselves, you call it Abusive? What? The truth is, why is dave crying over spilled milk after all these years. These people in VC have nothing to do with Dave grave, but when he starts HIS raft of abuse, I don't see why anyone would tolerate it. Get Real! Yes, this silly little video and the statements its making is abusive and we can make up our own mind on it.
OlafKuntz 2 years ago
Seems to me it's not Dave displaying the threatening behaviour here.
I've heard about the abuse given to people who have talked about Dave Grave's involvement in VC for many years. Its really interesting to see it in real life.
The raft of abusive comments below have convinced me that Rob Reimar and his cronies are a bunch of abusive assholes.
Its great to be able to see it first hand and make my own mind up.
MsAmusedObserver 2 years ago
msAmused wrote: "abuse given to people who have talked about Dave Grave's involvement in VC for many years. Dear! Now that is funny. Considering he played NO Significant part in VC's success. Or Perhaps the truth is the band wants to forget the nightmare he was...and still is! Proof from the above video "Lie" of trademark disputes. ?
I worked for a notary, copyrght. The government doesn't dispute!! Sorry you have been lied to again by dave. Dave really loves his own drama.
MrPsychobillygoat 2 years ago 2
One thing I didnt have space to wrote is:
The Government office of TradeMarks, gives an individual ownership of a name from, lots of proof that the person is the ONLY one using it- as with VoodooChurch, Tina is. And lots of proof of their product such as, Albums/CD's, T-shirts, Bags, Stickers...Whatever it may be. And shes the singer for years now. So it was rightfully and "Legally" given to her by Attorneys at the U.S Trademark Offices! And the name would have had to be available, it was.
MrPsychobillygoat 2 years ago 2
@MrPsychobillygoat
You must be a notary without a clue. I happen to work in music promotion and I am fully aware that Trademarks are awarded by first use and first use in commerce. Tina's trademark is listed as August 15th 1981 (presumably the recordings featuring Dave that Rob Reimar has threatened to destroy and Tina has stated don't exist), and first use in commerce as May 1st 1982.
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Frankenlegion13 2 years ago
@MrPsychobillygoat
Tina's Trademark claim is disproven by the fact that Dave Grave produced stickers featuring the bands logo by him in May 1981, performed on the August 15th 1981 recordings and first used the name in commerce at their November 1st 1981 debut show at the ON Klub. As for the May 1982 date - Dave was still fronting the band (at the Grandia Room June 15th 1982) written up in the La Weekly as 'Voodoo Church, featuring King of the Ghoul Hair-do Rockers Dave Grave'.
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Frankenlegion13 2 years ago
@MrPsychobillygoat
Then there's the question of Tina's statement in an email to William Faith dated October 10th 2000 of 'Voodoo Church, which happens to be Dave's name'. It is a simple fact that Sec.28 of the Lanham Act states that 'claimant forfeits right of mark by use of fraudulent means to procure registration', and 'use is not in good faith and used without permission'.
This, among others, is the reason Dave's case has been granted a number by the USPTO trials and appeals board.
Frankenlegion13 2 years ago
P.S. This guy Dave Grave, has a Pattern of threatening people- mainly lead singers..Like my friend Sean from "London After Midnight", you'll find proof of that, because Sean made statements about it! Dave also threatened the late beloved Rozz Williams and continues to withTina and her band Voodoo Church.
Tina is good friends with Christian Death & Eva O. they remember Dave trying to CUT rozz's hair out of rage!! Dave Grave clearly needs Mental Help! The ONLY lier here, is Dave.
djnightcreature 2 years ago
As a DJ, in the U.S & Europe, I play a lot of music. This lame video above proves nothng other then, dave was in VC for all of 3 seconds! Whats his point?!? Listening to this, Im glad Tina took over the vocals. Back then...Tina was ALSO lead vocalist, NOT only dave! Tina has been in Voodoo Church for 28yrs, she has 3 Albums to her Credit and European Comp albums. (i play them) Nobody has been as involved in VC to the level in which tina has! Dave is clearly disconnected to "reality"!
djnightcreature 2 years ago 2
I'm a little confused, did Frankenstein breakup? As I recall, Dave has been in the band Frankenstein forever, over 26 years? And its true, Dave hasnt been on any Voodoo Church records.
MrPsychobillygoat 2 years ago 2
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TheRobertReimer 2 years ago
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TheRobertReimer 2 years ago 2
The user who said "valor" just meen he like the "2" VC,His peaceful and just meen he dislike this band war situation.why you attack him? I remember you guys attacking alot of peoples i know on a board when they just ask why you sell your ep 800$ on ebay,That's what i meen VC = a bunch of cunts who seem to think you are superior to everyone...pure rock star attitude
ThePunkPostPunkTribe 2 years ago
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TheRobertReimer 2 years ago 3
TheRobertReimer Can you please fuck off and go cry somewhere else...Only that video alone is SUCH better then all the other VC craps put together..Late VC is just pure fucking rock stars mainstream craps...successful? Brithney spear is successful do that meen she have talent? lol thats all you guys (VC) care being famous and successful...$
ThePunkPostPunkTribe 2 years ago
A job? Musicians don't need no stinking jobs. For a video with 400 views there sure are a lot of comments. It's 27 years old. It's fun to watch. Get over it. Reminds me how fun it was to make music back then before record deals and concerns about trademarks and cash. Boy are those days gone. And 27 years later this video gets 400 views and people blow gaskets Get real. Dave was your friend back then. It's a snapshot. It's fun to watch.
testtubeboy 2 years ago
I was there back in the day...and i remember tina also sang for voodoo church. I remember mark splatter saying something a few year ago that dave was only in voodoo church for a very short time. This is clearly an "early" version of voodoo church......but this video has nothing to do with when voodoo church was established when the EP was released.
eurochick100 2 years ago
Oh, and people, please remember that all music performed by the Schizo's except for two songs (Cool Surfin' and Baby Godzilla), all music performed by Zombie Legion was either written or arranged (In My Room, Love Potiion #9, Secret Agent Man, etc) by me, and all music performed by Voodoo Church during the few months that Dave Retard(o) was involved with the band was written by ME. This liar would have you believe otherwise, or you might as well move to Guyana and drink cyanide Kool Aid.
TheRobertReimer 2 years ago
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TheRobertReimer 2 years ago
I never intended a Rozz/Dave comparison as people, however you should simply release this material, this video is awesome, it would be a tragedy for it to be left in the vaults because of this arguement.
lazrs4 2 years ago
I am aware of the Rozz Dave incident however you guys have just used this as a big personal anti Dave tirade, which technically is attempted bullying with all these personal comments.
I think your actions speak for themselves, not once have you suggested any compromise.
I believe Dave on this one....
lazrs4 2 years ago
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TheRobertReimer 2 years ago
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TheRobertReimer 2 years ago
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TheRobertReimer 2 years ago
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TheRobertReimer 2 years ago
I'm gonna leave these comments up because I want the world to know what rubbish these people spout.
Everything on this video is supported by documentation that i have seen personally. This is through magazines and emails sent by Tina and Rob themselves.
Sorry they think Voodoo Church has been more successful than Frankenstein. I don't think so!
Frankenlegion13 2 years ago
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TheRobertReimer 2 years ago
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TheRobertReimer 2 years ago
Everything written on this video is a lie. 1) he did not "disband" VC. He left because he was (and probably still is, a pompous jackass, and nobody wanted him around. If he "disbanded VC, why did they go on to record the EP, which he was extremely jealous of? 2) Tina did not "attempt" to trademark the name Voodoo Church, she DID trademark it. I have seen the paperwork, and it is legal). 3) I did not ever state that I would destroy master tapes of VC. This is a complete fabrication.
TheRobertReimer 2 years ago
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TheRobertReimer 2 years ago
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TheRobertReimer 2 years ago
Let me start with this, Dave Naegeli is a liar and a thief. I am Bob Reimer, and a REAL member of Voodoo Church. The butt-pipe who posted this is a "wannabe" poseur, who THINKS he created Voodoo Church. He has illegally copyrighted the music for this song, Music was written by me, originally under the title "Mirror Image". Dave's lyrics fit better, so we used those. This is not the first time this human crotch has done this, the last time was with a song called "Flesh Garage". More later.
TheRobertReimer 2 years ago
I think you risk putting yourselves in a Valor Kand type situation and should reach some compromise and allow to this material to be released.
As a bit of a Deathrock geek, you guys (VC) are good, I look forward to your new album, but Dave ain't talentless, the Frankenstein album matches anything VC did and that's fact. Plain and simple.
lazrs4 2 years ago
wow impresionante cancion, aparte genial imagen!
YarziniaPestis 2 years ago
"HEY KIDS! HAVE SOME DRUGS!" :)
Dave and I had some fun times.
BorderAmigos 2 years ago 2
This is as good as the EP later released. I think however TW owns the name fair enough, but release this for heaven's sake, it is too good, don't slip into a Valor situation.
lazrs4 2 years ago
The real deal!
ThePunkPostPunkTribe 2 years ago
Also Taz's last name is Rudd unless he changed it and no one told me. Taz Rudd was/is a genius guitar player.
testtubeboy 2 years ago 2
First time I've seen it since 1982. I broke a string. I want to do it over! Chris Trent.
testtubeboy 2 years ago 2
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testtubeboy 2 years ago
I would urge both parties to reach some amicable agreement. Both VC and Frankenstein are truly great bands, I belive both should carry on as they are, but this material should be released as acnowledgement of VCs' original roots, it is a crime of time not to.
lazrs4 2 years ago
This is awesome footage, a great example of those times. It is great as are the two other VC releases, however if there are recordings of this stuff, VC should allow its' release this is far too good to be held in storage or limbo of petty dispute.
lazrs4 2 years ago
amazing. way better than tina's vocals.
bunnypants23 2 years ago 2
hahahaha. Right, that is why Tina had a voted #1 CD "Unholy Burial" and dave...well, he has nothing!! And he is a Jealous bitch.
djnightcreature 2 years ago
YES! YES! YES! Great Stuff. DAVE GRAVE ROCKS!!!! Frankenstein!
jessbarr87 2 years ago 5