Okay okay, first of all here, Vegans and meat eaters need to shut the fuck up and keep their opinions to them self's everyone is open to their own choices. I eat beef, chicken and all other meats all the time, i cannot accually eat anything that is vegan because it gets me sick and i can't eat it. But i'd never eat a human because that is different from an animal. Humans live breath and think much like animals BUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They dont come up to me and say, hey i wanna live dont kill me
The only reason why I'm vegetarian is because I don't agree with how they usually are raised. There is nothing wrong with eating meat.. Just wish that they weren't treated so bad.
i like meat but also seeing them like they dont feel anything is wrong , so fuck you who ever thinks they dont why would they flee if they think there in danger ,they dont stand there like "ok you can eat me now its fine with me"
yea but animals do want to live , if you try to catch one they flee for there lives because there frightened , if you hurt an animal it will cry out in pain , just because you cannnot understand them or they dont have the same ability's as us to defend ,speak out aginst things done against them and there families (yes family's bow chica wow wow) lets remember animals are living the natural life which we were meant to live yes eat meat and plants but not as something we can manufacture
has any one noticed with the onision vid almost every shot of him talking he it looking fowards then turns his head to his left (facing the screen) then continues his argument?
Every one of your counter arguments were fallacious.For example you believe its ok to kill chickens because you dont know what they are thinking or feeling. The same can be said about tribes in Africa. Just because you cannot comprehend a verbal expression of feelings does not mean they dont exist.(note screeching exists)Also you argue that chickens may not even want to be alive for all we know. However this is ignorance at its finest because chicken farming and thus existence is imposed by man
Chickens and cows run from big noise. Big noise means big trouble. When you grab cow or chicken, they try to run from you, predator. Chicken and Cow- self aware. Cows also social and team working animal, much like raptor, much like chicken.
your arguing: 'you're not solving all the worlds problems, therefore eating meat is ok'..& 'we don't know what they're thinking therefore we shouldn't pay any attention to what they want' SORRY-but if a human being was mute you wouldn't lock him/her up, slit his/her throat then eat him/her just because they can't communicate verbally..are you saying we should do that? Before you splutter 'sign language' -monkeys can master that.PLEASE save us all some time& stop trying to justify yourself.
I am a Christian, and no, I won't go to hell for eating meat. I've had vegans shove the commandment "Do not murder" in my face. They don't understand that like you said, the definition of murder applies to humans. It's MANslaughter. Robbing another human being of their life. (Look it up in the dictionary, Onision)
I'm sitting here with my cat. I like him, but here's the thing: he doesn't have any perception of life and death. I wouldn't kill him, but if I did, it wouldn't be against any law.
@Ollie7707 By 'law' I assume you mean a religious kind, because you certainly can't kill cats around here and get away with it! Of course cats have perception of life and death, how do you think they got so far in the scheme of things? Before they were domesticated, cats had to have some survival skills just to get by. It is instinctual for animals in the wild to run away from predators.. If something is 'alien' an animal it will be cautious, just like a human would be in mind of theirmortality
@Ollie7707 If youd like to base your morals on a dictionary then i'd also like to point out that dogs, and cats, are also not of the human species. So why are there laws in place to protect them? I'll tell you why.. Because humans assign value to other feeling organisms. Humans say, "well these animals are furry and fun to play with so we will keep them in our house as entertainment." "Oh,and these animals over here taste good, so its perfectly fine to kill them." Hope that didnt hurt too much:(
Laws protecting housepets are in place for the humans' benefit, because they paid money for their pet and have grown to love it. Cows and chickens are not pets. It's the way of the world. I suggest you get over it.
@Ollie7707 Great, you agree that humans are assigning value to other feeling creatures well being. Unfortunately the selfish self interest of an individual does not justify its harmful actions towards others. Also suggesting that i, "get over it" is not a valid counter argument to imposing suffering. Imagine a serial killer trying to use that line in court...I dont think that would work with the judge/jury. You have any more garbage i can throw out?
Well, bottom line is that animals aren't people. they're below us on the food chain. I'm sorry you feel this way about meat-eating, but this is the cold hard truth. Not all killing is wrong, some is natural. I have a feeling that you are going to keep throwing the old "animals are people too!" thing in my face, but they're not. End of story.
@Ollie7707 I made no such claim that cows, or cats are human. Nor would i argue something so clearly false. I am arguing that all sentient creatures with a central nervous system feel pain and suffering and that it is a bad thing to impose this pain and suffering on them needlessly. I think you can agree that suffering is the worst feeling that is possible for a being to experience. I would not support the meat farming of humans by an alien race, nor do i support humans doing the same
@Ollie7707 " I'm sitting here with my cat. I like him, but here's the thing: he doesn't have any perception of life and death. I wouldn't kill him, but if I did, it wouldn't be against any law."
LOL? I assure you that if you killed your cat you would be breaking a law. Have you ever heard of animal abuse? How about animal cruelty?. Killing animals is a jailable offense. The stupidity of some people is truly astounding isnt it?
@emitremmus because when someone purchases meat, they are fuelling a bloated industry that breeds and ends thousands of animals every day, and severely damages the liveability of the planet unnecessarily. There's other ways of looking at this but that's a fact. It has very little to nothing to do with how self-aware the animals are, they pose no threat to us and meat is not essential for a healthy diet
Whether you eat meat or not, someone else is going to be eating meat, the same amount of animals is going to be killed whether you eat meat or not. You might as well eat meat.
Your more developed frontal lobe doesn't mean you are really alive and animals are not douche-bag. Onision is a dickhead but so are you. You are both douche-bag dickheads.
He's a little crazy/ignorant butt he was really funny and intelligent before his divorce poor guy it just made him even crazier now he's with a psycho little girl who looks like a troll
Now go look up 'good energy', take the train, and realise most bugs move around in bad conditions and like trying to smack a fly in the air, not easily. As time goes on things change and become more moral so long as people wish to be more moral.
Plus you can't kill micro bugs by stepping on them, their too small like water they would just move in-between the gaps in your shoes. The only bugs you would kill is ones you could actually see being killed.
@TheaDragonSpirit That was exactly what I was thinking about considering what you would crush.
So by that definition the only ''massmurderer woud be an indian elephant flattening the junglefloor and some insects with it's enormous weight and groundpressure.
The most ridiculous thing is that Onionson :P seems to be comparing ''eating other types of food instead of meat'' to ''not not (or still) walking around because you have to be able to travel despite that you might kill a bacteria or flea''
@rocksparadox - Everyone kills bacteria every day... they also kill us... We have no choice in this. But I don't worry about killing bacteria or even plants really. I prefer not to kill plants or harm them, as I don't want to harm any life, however I see it more like this. Bacteria, Vegetables and Plants lack a nervous system, so even if they were somehow conscious, there would be no afferent neurons to carry pain messages. Meaning they don't suffer pain, like animals and we do.
@rocksparadox - Some will argue killing fleas is self defence as well. To not kill them could in the future cause them to get ill and die. Some people see killing bugs as self defence against disease. They don't feel animals should be put through endless pain just to be eaten when we don't need and its actually unhealthy too eat them, and their no threat to people. However bugs and fleas carry plagues and other problems. Personally I say remove bugs don't kill them. Cure diseases with diet!
@TheaDragonSpirit Exactly, i will nurture my good bacteria, and KILL any parasite that comes near me.
Survival of the fittest my friend, and I believe killing and eating certain animals is at least not detrimental to my health and our teeth are those of omnivorous mammals .
@rocksparadox - That's bull! Look up a horses teeth. Their herbivores, and they look like carnivores. Look them up. We have a body structure very close to a herbivore, closer to a herbivore then a omnivore. I would say we was herbivores who have adapted to eating meat in order to survive. All my research shows that we should be on a vegan diet. Not a carnivore diet. Eating meat is dangerous. It's not survival of the fittest another load of bull! If bee's die. WE DIE TOO! It's united we stand!
Basically I will sum it up like this it is better to kill less life then more life. And I know animals suffer, never seen a garlic cry out in pain... The less life you kill the better. The less farms spreading disease, the better. Caring for animals and raising your own animals is better. Killing your own dog for food is better. Since you like meat. The point of ethics is to be going to the point of better, not worse! Maybe in the future will keep bugs in the wild. Later.
Next you will state well if all animals are in good clean conditions well aired organic environment it will be fine. Which is true, but guess what that's not sustainable. Secondly what is the point in killing life if you don't need too, if I accidentally stand on a bug I was not aware of I am still responsible... Yes and? When did I say I was Jesus? The point is too make it possible for me to walk round with out killing bugs! Since you care so much about them! Straw man! THINK! THICK-O!
Oh and don't give me that tired argument eating meat only affects me and the animals I eat... which I need to eat to survive. No, it's healthier to be vegan, it's a well known fact by any nutritionist.
Bird flu: Factory farms! Look up that debate you... Foot and mouth... e-coli from animal poop on farms. Eating meat is also harming people who don't eat meat! Selfish cunts! Like the plague and rats in bad conditions harmed people. By eating meat you could be causing someone too die. Enjoy!
You're next argument is floored, you basically say they is no grey area and everything is black and white. Hi ho hitler too you. Every ethical point comes in degrees the degree in which a person is and isn't willing to do something. But if you don't believe this is true please give me your address and ill rape anyone you know since ethics to you is pointless. Or at least this is what you just implied. All life is important, but we are human not gods. It's actually healthier to be vegan! :-)
Right so let me get this straight since we don't know what a chicken feels its ok for me to play football with its head. Secondly it's fucking obvious that they feel pain and suffering... if you're not sure of this walk in to a cow field slap it on the arse and watch it moo... if you're really not sure though if animals feel. Please watch this video you fecking moron: watch?v=56BQF4yyOTE
"I'm not going to feel sorry for you." Nobody asked you to be? I'm going to go feed some crickets to my spiders. I tried giving them veggies like you wanted but they flipped me off, so....
want proof chickens don´t want to die? Try to catch one. Notice something? They run away. Why? Maybe they assume naturally that because you don´t look like a chicken and so can't be trusted. They have to assume the worst, that your intention is to kill it. Right they are. Most americans couldn't catch a chicken if their lives depended on it. Most americans would start eating mostly fruit if they had to catch their own food simply because that would be the only food they could catch.
I wonder if Onision likes fruit gushers? I only ask because the fillings are made using sea kelp reproductive fluids (sperm) and if he does he is depriving other sea kelp blooms of life.
What a prick........... This Onision fucker is such an asshole. If im eating something that is dead thats not murder. Organisms eat other organisms thats the natural order of things. It is a process that needs to happen for this earth to remain in a balanced way.
@KangoeroeSkippy Yes it dose. You do not offer your shelter to the birds that can not fly in the freezing rain, do you? You don't offer your heat and protection from the weather to the cattle who walk in it all day, do you? It is very selfish, I won't kill a cow and put it out of its possible missery, and instead i'll make it walk in the freezing cold and harsh rain while i snuggle under my blankets in my bed. I won't kill or eat it, instead im going to make it live a miserable life forever. GG
@devourerofbabies Actualy under the set of videos on the channel Onision Speaks or w/e they are all sapose to be "Serious" videos. They are his practical opinions backed up by what he thinks. Onision speaks isn't one of his "Cartoon channels" it's more of one of those "This is my point of view, don't like it than die." channels.
You should actually do your research because it's a scientific fact that if the early human race didn't eat meat then our brains wouldn't of developed the way they have now.
Vegetarians are always so angry. I noticed his eyes were on the front of his head. That usually indicates a descendant or member of a predatory species since eyes up front allow better depth perception for hunting. In nature, vegetarian species have their eyes on the sides of their heads to better watch out for preds. Yeah. This guy is definately a member of a species that hunts so he might feel better if he went and got a cheeseburger.
The idea that being a vegan will change anything as far as animal cruelty is concerned is oblivious idealism. And oblivious idealism is what dejects me the most about my naive human brethren.
We do torture animals, and it'd be nice to see some reform. But, I don't find vegetarianism a lifestyle superior to the one I have. I eat plenty of fruits/vegetables/meats and avoid sugars and salts. I also take plenty of multivitamins. I am pretty healthy thanks to all of this, and I'd hate to never eat meat again. Anyone who thinks being a vegan is superior to any other healthy diet is just an elitist.
Huh? You need evidence that a cow or a chicken VALUE THEIR LIVES? This statement could only be made by someone who has never butchered the animals they eat, or visited a slaughterhouse, or even lived on a family farm where the cows will strike out against an attacking predator...OR .even tried to take an egg away from a mother hen! Protecting life is also about 'self interest'. And by the way, the guy you are critiquing actually makes perfect sense!
I'm a vegetarian. And I find it harsh that killing animals and eating them are bad and sad. But, you didn't have to tell them they going to hell because they are trying to stay alive. Clearly, this is an old video of "Onision" and I think he's changed.
have you ever heard a pig squeal in fear? have you seen an animal thrash against something that it's being tied to during a loud, scary noise or a storm? i do. i all but live at a barn with these animals, and i can positively assure you they have a will to live.
Thank you so fucking much for bringing out the stupidity of this idiot. This guy is a huge hypocrite and although i doubt he will see this and if he does he would never accept how wrong he is, at least i know im not alone in knowing. This guy is such a bitch and needs to get off his huuuge fucking internet high horse. This guy thinks he's like revolutionary. He's on youtube... People need to stop being so fucking self richeous. You can't change the world by complaining behind your computer....
...and since it'd be EXTREMELY hard to break a Lion of it's habit of hunting, in fact it would possibly take thousands-if not millions-of years too completely rid a species of a specific habit, what makes humans any different.
We're animals, accept it or not. We do what we do, eat what we eat, because we've been bred to, why do you think we have Appendix's or 'Wisdom teeth', we needed those for the meat so we could break it down and digest it properly before the ability to cook came about.
Whether you would like to be a human, whale, cow, fish or whatever is irrelevant. What matters is whether one species is 'superior' to the other and has the right to dominate the planet.
@PwnFilms You have to be very cold hearted to not be aware enough about life to think that animals don't feel and hurt. It is almost better that you were like the billions of sheeple out there not wanting to know how their rotting flesh gets to the market. At least this way you could claim simple ignorance rather than cruel hateful selfish stupidity. But how's those carcinogens, animal antibiotics, bovine homones, saturated fat, LDL cholesterol, feces, stapph corsing thru your viens??
My dog ran off the porch Sunday afternoon and trapped a little deer in the yard. He got it by its neck as it called to its mother, who was trying to fight the dog off. The baby sounded like a lamb, over and over, calling for its mother who could not help. For hours after, the mother kept coming back in that spot looking for its baby. It did this for 3 afternoons in a row. The fact is, torturing animals for pleasure is cruel and inflicts a horrid amount of suffering on our fellow beings. Proven!
I agree with you, but.... Onision is just standing up for what he thinks. Kinda like you are. We're all people. No need to point out anyones wrong. You and him are in the wrong. Don't bash on other people when you know they're wrong. He's right by his standards, you're right by yours.
@smyshey There are no nociceptors found in insects, thus they are unable to feel pain like animals can. Secondly, brushing the ground would not serve to eliminate very tiny insects and the very act of brushing would actually kill or injure some of them. But if you're the type of person who practices such things, that's your affair. Please leave constructive comments that are supported by science. :)
Given that cultures do just that to save insect life then your point is pointless otherwise why would they do it? Also alot of insects can feel pain so I suggest you research your evidence again. I would also like to add that they would only die this way if you have a hard end brush. If I quickly kill a human or any other animal in a fast way so they don't feel any pain does that make it acceptable?
I love the excusses vegetarians make when this happens
@Smyshey Regardless of the type of brush, certain insects a millimeter or less in length would still be killed or missed altogether by the brush. It is a silly and ineffective solution. Secondly, you are quite obviously uneducated on the subject of insects and pain reception. Show me one reliable scientific source which has demonstrated insects have the ability to feel pain. You can't, because such a source does not exist.
So your whole pont is that they don't feel pain when they are going to die so it's ok to kill them? great argument you have there buddy, and you call me uneducated.
Sorry, I am aware that their are some insects which are being intentionally bred for those purpose, which I neglected to mention in my previous comment.
But the point still stands.
Walking along a dirt path and stepping on bugs in the process =/= intentional breeding/exploitation/abuse of insects/animals for consumption purposes.
I am against the cruelty of how they are treated before killed but I'm not against the consumption of meat. Thefact is that anything you do in our society either profits the death of animals or kills them directly. Think about how many animals were removed from their habitat just so your house could be built. I am not saying you are in the wrong for living in the house but if you wanted to do less damage as possible to animals then you could live in a hut, hopefully you get mypoint
For the building of my house, no animals were 'removed from their habitat' actually.
Anyway, just because there have been mistakes in the past doesn't mean we should still continue doing so. There are ways to repair the damage we have done and to reduce our 'interference' to a more appropriate level.
There are ways to live a modern way of life and still be environmentally and animal friendly.
It's a scientific fact that if I shot smeone in the head that they would die instantly with no pain, does that make it acceptable?
I love how you try to dodge my points by ignoring them and instead of commenting on my points you comment on my intelligence. You do use things like "misguided information" instead of a more simple way just to try and show how intelligent you are. The fact that you couldn't comment on my points show that grammar is the only thing you are good at here.
@Smyshey I'll make this as brief as possible. Insects are not animals. They are lesser forms of life and although necessary to the success of our ecosystem, they are not capable of emotion, reason nor the concept of pain. It is nearly impossible to live life on this earth as any creature without causing death or suffering to another living thing.
Now who is the unintelligent one? Insects do belong to the "animal" kingdom. Cows are lesser beings than humans and yet here you are complaining. The sells in your body are lesser forms of life than an insect, does that mean they aren't important?
I already know that death is natural in life but you are the one that is disagreeing with that.
@Smyshey You obviously are not interested in useful debate or discussion so I am done here. I will close with telling you to read my last comment here once more. I've already explained that insects are important, and the differences between them and "non-insect" animals, as well as my philosophy regarding them.
Sentience is the difference between animals and the cells that make them up. To try and say that each individual cell has the same value/importance of the whole is called the fallacy of division.
It's what the cells make up that seperates us and makes us higher beings. You wouldn't trade places with a Cow would you? Why not? Because you're not a Cow.
We feel emotion, we have dreams, we evolve, we have created more, we are the most powerful species. By saying "we are us" I thought you would of been able to realize what I ment but you only believed what you wanted to believe.
If you had the choice to be a cow that isn't going to be slaughtered, what would you be? Human or Cow?
"If just to be a cow grazing arounf,I don't know nor do I care", why not? Because you know for a fact you don't want to swap places with one.
@Smyshey "We feel emotion" Not all of us do. Some of the mentally handicapped don't. Some sociopath's don't. Other animals feel emotion, as well. Some animals have a higher degree of feeling emotion than some humans. Should we just kill other humans who aren't as emotional as you or I? "We have dreams" As do many other animals. "We evolve" As does everything alive. "We have created more" Other animals create many things themselves, as well. I'm assuming your referring to technology and
There are humans who are not as technologically advanced as some animals out there, or as the rest of the human race - should we kill them and eat them, too?
There are animals who are more cognitively developed than some human beings - so is it justifiable to kill and eat the mentally handicapped, who cannot create their own things? Is it justifiable to kill an infant because they aren't as intelligent and haven't built things?
@cmadison93 Yes people don't feel emotion and how do we brand them? Mentally "disabled" as in no as able as a normal human being. Animals feel emtion but not as much as humans do, their level of emotion is nowhere near our level. Name an animal that has more feelings tan a human being and then supply proof. "We have dream" I didn't think that you would be as stupid as to think I ment actual dreams so let me simplify it, we wish to be more thn what we are and evolve everyday.
Wow, Smyshey. Just because I have brought up several counter-arguments to your points doesn't mean you should start resorting to ad hominem attacks. It's really not helping your case. I would appreciate it if we could continue on with a rational, logical discourse free of ad hominem. Let me know if you are unable to meet the standard for a logical debate.
I'm just saying that there are human beings who are not as intelligent as the rest, not as emotionally developed. Doesn't necessarily mean they have a mental handicap.
There are animals out there who do have a higher cognitive and emotional ability than some humans.
Dolphins, primates, canines, felines, etc. Do the research.
Does the level of feeling emotional really determine the worth of things? I am more capable of feeling emotion than many other humans, so can I kill them?
Are we allowed to let the smartest, most intelligent human being to completely dominate the human race an enslave us all and eat us all? According to your logic, that is the case.
"If you had the choice to be a cow that isn't going to be slaughtered, what would you be? Human or Cow?"
If I had the choice? I don't care, to be honest. I would be fine either way.
Why should I care?
"Because you know for a fact you don't want to swap places with one."
Oh ofcourse, you "don't care". If you really don't care then why have you adopted the idea of living in a house like a human insetad of living in the wild like other species? Because you do care. I'm sick of people like you using the "I don't care" excuse when they have nothing to say on the subject.
What? I live in house because I am a human. I am not a cow. If I was a cow, I would live life like cows do. If I was a fish, I would live in the ocean. I don't claim that either one of those ways of life are 'better' or 'superior' to the other. I've never been a cow or fish, so I can't really speak out on how cows or fish feel or what their life is like.
You're not really making sense in this point, so could you elaborate, please?
You compare birds nests to a human house and say that our technology is the same simply because birds can make a nest. You are by far the worstperson to ever try prove their case with stupidity. Although humanity is part of the animal kingdo they still are the ones that have more differences than any other animal. Your points are pointless. You try to use others words against them but do it miserably. Good bye.
You are saying that those who can build more complex things are more dominant and superior. As such, why don't we have a select few people killing, enslaving and treating everyone like dirt because everyone else can't build things as complex as them?
I never said that their technology is the same as ours. I said that they can build things, too.
I do value my intelligence, but that doesn't make me superior to those (other animals or humans) who are not as intelligent as myself. I do not have an ego complex here.
So now animals can make technology? Cool. Iactualy don't know how to comment back to you, what you are saying is so idiotic that I really can't think of a way to coment back. Humans havemore "potential" than any other animal.
According to my logic? Em no, we are a species and I am not saying individual intelligence, I am talking about intelligence as a whole species. If you aregoing to state some points and base them on "my" knowledge then atleast understand what my knowledge is
Are you sure you actually read my comment, Smyshey? I said that animals can and do build things. Birds build nests, beavers build dams, primates makes tools, etc.
Then I went on to say that you are probably referring to how we can make technology which somehow makes us superior. I say that some humans cannot create technology, some humans excel at that. Should those who excel at creating technology have the right to dominate over every one else and kill/eat them?
I can say that the average level of intelligence for children is lower than the average level of intelligence for adults. Should we have free reign to kill children at our own pleasure?
Why do you make the distinction between 'species'? We are all related in the grand 'tree of life'.
We are all siblings, relatives, etc. Why does one have superiority over another?
I'm sorry but I can't continue this conversation, you are just making bullshit out of it. Fact is that Humans are superior and if we weren't then we wouldn't have control of most of the planet and wouldn't of been able to make most of the world "our" habitat if we weren't superior. I litrally couldn't make it past the second reply because you ask for a rational and intelligent conversation while at the same time deny the fact that humanity is superior.
I commend you for engaging in a thoroughly fallacious discussion, Smyshey. I congratulate you on your special pleading, ad hominem attacks, straw-mans and question begging.
You say my arguments are 'bullshit' but you have failed to provide sufficient reason to believe so.
Your type of dogmatic (or gullible) approach to life is a dangerous thing, Smyshey. I highly recommend you learn about logical fallacies and engage in critical thinking.
So, are you saying that a species who has such a long neck (giraffe) is more valuable than a species who doesn't even know what it's like to have such a long neck?
Your points aren't really making sense, please elaborate.
@Smyshey My philosophy is to cause as little as possible and make sacrifices that are easily made (being vegan/vegetarian) in order to show compassion for the animals we share the earth with. Being vegan does not hinder my ability to live life, and therefore I see it as selfish not to be, though I understand that not everyone sees it this way.
>.> You're so fucking stupid. He's just saying that animals have a right to live. By killing and eating them, you are denying that right. I happen to agree. At the same time, I agree, he DOES need to calm down. That being said, just cause he states his poinon doesn't mean he's shoving it on you. Sure, he my be aggressive about it, but if you don't feel bad about eating meat, then why argue with him? Simply ignore him, for fucks sake.
Being self aware or desiring life isn't the issue. The issue is that they do feel pain and inflicting pain on living beings for the sake of your taste buds is selfish and cruel.
Do you carry a brush everywhere you go and sweep the ground infront of you before walking on that piece of ground to ensure no insects are on the ground when you step on the ground? No? Well then you are a selfish and cruel person for not taking such actions just so you don't look like a fool and can travel faster.
Now you are going to make a stupid excuse to try and say that insects don't apply and that no one else takes such actions and I say to that that you're wrong.
We are intentionally breeding, exploiting and abusing animals for our own pleasure. We aren't going around intentionally breeding insects - just so we can step on them and eat them and their by-products.
@desmodaeus If animals could eat you, They would. The world is a cruel and selfish place so get over it. If we released all the chickens in the world into the wild, It would be a killing spree for wolfs, raccoons, and other animals not to mention diseases and parasites. Your goals are noble but pain is part of life. In fact most animals evolved to feel pain because of the survival benefits of it so I could say blame it on the genes. Being self aware and desiring life does hold greater value.
@bmehoota Yes, animals might eat me if they were hungry. You are correct. And it is reason that separates us humans from the rest of the beasts on this planet. The gift/curse of reason doesn't allow us to categorize ourselves along with other creatures who do not possess it. Because we have the power to do as we wish to other living things does not mean that we should. A wolf doesn't have the ability to consider these things. We do. We have no excuse.
@desmodaeus "we have the power to do as we wish to other living things does not mean that we should." Why? I value human life far greater then any other animals. If you had to scale how many chickens lives would equal one human life what would be your answer?
@bmehoota Why should we not always do as we wish because we can? I suppose it is because those of us who are not psychotic understand that doing as we want is not always the best choice. With power comes responsibility. Of course history teaches us that there are those who disagree; Adolf Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, etc... So it is at least safe to say that you are not alone in your opinion.
@desmodaeus You didn't answer my second question. As far as my first question you kind of dodged it by saying its psychotic and not really give me any examples like why we should value chickens and cow lives over our human desires, instead you personally attacked me by saying my opinions are the same as Adolf Hitler. Ironically Adolf Hitler was a vegetarian, however you don't see me calling you a Nazi just to distract from the real argument. I'm only wondering what you think.
@bmehoota Well, I apologize but to be fair you did start this argument out by telling me to "get over it" and that didn't set a very friendly tone. As for why we should value the lives of a living creature... How do you explain compassion or the value of life to someone? I suppose it is either something you feel within you or you do not. Arguing from a purely logical point of view, you will win this debate. But I do not see this world through logic alone.
@bmehoota If we all did that, then we would cease to be human and become nothing more than machines. Our emotions are not kept in a box waiting to be released by logic. We do many things that are illogical, yet they make us happy or allow those less fortunate to benefit in some way. Logic is useful, but it must be tempered with compassion and a deeper understanding of our place in this universe.
You live in a house, that makes you cruel and selfish. An animal habitat was destroyed so that your house could be built and by you paying to live in that house you benefit the idea of destroying animal life so that humans can live happily. If you own a car then I can say you're cruel because cars are responsible for many deaths of animals on the road.
You're right, they do feel pain but do you focus on the pain of animals that you are playing a part in? Ofcourse not.
You live in a house, that makes you cruel and selfish. An animal habitat was destroyed so that your house could be built and by you paying to live in that house you benefit the idea of destroying animal life so that humans can live happily. If you own a car then I can say you're cruel because cars are responsible for many deaths of animals on the road.
You're right, they do feel pain but do you focus on the pain of animals that you are playing a part in? Ofcourse not.
I think that anything alive want's to live, even plants.... I don't think that desire only comes with self-aware beings... its something in the organisim that makes it grow and keep trying to stay alive... but again, that includes plants too.
Okay okay, first of all here, Vegans and meat eaters need to shut the fuck up and keep their opinions to them self's everyone is open to their own choices. I eat beef, chicken and all other meats all the time, i cannot accually eat anything that is vegan because it gets me sick and i can't eat it. But i'd never eat a human because that is different from an animal. Humans live breath and think much like animals BUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They dont come up to me and say, hey i wanna live dont kill me
Radicalrich34 4 days ago
The only reason why I'm vegetarian is because I don't agree with how they usually are raised. There is nothing wrong with eating meat.. Just wish that they weren't treated so bad.
EdgyBroEDGY 5 days ago
i like meat but also seeing them like they dont feel anything is wrong , so fuck you who ever thinks they dont why would they flee if they think there in danger ,they dont stand there like "ok you can eat me now its fine with me"
greenpredetor 1 month ago
yea but animals do want to live , if you try to catch one they flee for there lives because there frightened , if you hurt an animal it will cry out in pain , just because you cannnot understand them or they dont have the same ability's as us to defend ,speak out aginst things done against them and there families (yes family's bow chica wow wow) lets remember animals are living the natural life which we were meant to live yes eat meat and plants but not as something we can manufacture
greenpredetor 1 month ago
has any one noticed with the onision vid almost every shot of him talking he it looking fowards then turns his head to his left (facing the screen) then continues his argument?
darkstriker80 1 month ago
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darkstriker80 1 month ago
Every one of your counter arguments were fallacious.For example you believe its ok to kill chickens because you dont know what they are thinking or feeling. The same can be said about tribes in Africa. Just because you cannot comprehend a verbal expression of feelings does not mean they dont exist.(note screeching exists)Also you argue that chickens may not even want to be alive for all we know. However this is ignorance at its finest because chicken farming and thus existence is imposed by man
CantWeedThis 1 month ago
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Chickens and cows run from big noise. Big noise means big trouble. When you grab cow or chicken, they try to run from you, predator. Chicken and Cow- self aware. Cows also social and team working animal, much like raptor, much like chicken.
lamronnormal 1 month ago
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lamronnormal 1 month ago
Onision is a moron - true - but this video is also pretty damn idiotic and didn't pwn anyone.
Lucitaur 1 month ago
your arguing: 'you're not solving all the worlds problems, therefore eating meat is ok'..& 'we don't know what they're thinking therefore we shouldn't pay any attention to what they want' SORRY-but if a human being was mute you wouldn't lock him/her up, slit his/her throat then eat him/her just because they can't communicate verbally..are you saying we should do that? Before you splutter 'sign language' -monkeys can master that.PLEASE save us all some time& stop trying to justify yourself.
jessicalovestheused 2 months ago
Onision is one of those idiot vegetarians who tries to force everyone else to be one and calls you a murderer if you don't convert.
ShadowofMorx 2 months ago
Great video and ignore the trove of Onision zealots
SteveeAlbino 2 months ago
I am a Christian, and no, I won't go to hell for eating meat. I've had vegans shove the commandment "Do not murder" in my face. They don't understand that like you said, the definition of murder applies to humans. It's MANslaughter. Robbing another human being of their life. (Look it up in the dictionary, Onision)
I'm sitting here with my cat. I like him, but here's the thing: he doesn't have any perception of life and death. I wouldn't kill him, but if I did, it wouldn't be against any law.
Ollie7707 2 months ago
@Ollie7707 By 'law' I assume you mean a religious kind, because you certainly can't kill cats around here and get away with it! Of course cats have perception of life and death, how do you think they got so far in the scheme of things? Before they were domesticated, cats had to have some survival skills just to get by. It is instinctual for animals in the wild to run away from predators.. If something is 'alien' an animal it will be cautious, just like a human would be in mind of theirmortality
jessicalovestheused 2 months ago
@jessicalovestheused
Instinct. Not self awareness.
Ollie7707 2 months ago
@Ollie7707 If youd like to base your morals on a dictionary then i'd also like to point out that dogs, and cats, are also not of the human species. So why are there laws in place to protect them? I'll tell you why.. Because humans assign value to other feeling organisms. Humans say, "well these animals are furry and fun to play with so we will keep them in our house as entertainment." "Oh,and these animals over here taste good, so its perfectly fine to kill them." Hope that didnt hurt too much:(
CantWeedThis 1 month ago
@CantWeedThis
precisely.
Laws protecting housepets are in place for the humans' benefit, because they paid money for their pet and have grown to love it. Cows and chickens are not pets. It's the way of the world. I suggest you get over it.
Ollie7707 1 month ago
@Ollie7707 Great, you agree that humans are assigning value to other feeling creatures well being. Unfortunately the selfish self interest of an individual does not justify its harmful actions towards others. Also suggesting that i, "get over it" is not a valid counter argument to imposing suffering. Imagine a serial killer trying to use that line in court...I dont think that would work with the judge/jury. You have any more garbage i can throw out?
CantWeedThis 1 month ago
@CantWeedThis
Well, bottom line is that animals aren't people. they're below us on the food chain. I'm sorry you feel this way about meat-eating, but this is the cold hard truth. Not all killing is wrong, some is natural. I have a feeling that you are going to keep throwing the old "animals are people too!" thing in my face, but they're not. End of story.
Ollie7707 1 month ago
@Ollie7707 I made no such claim that cows, or cats are human. Nor would i argue something so clearly false. I am arguing that all sentient creatures with a central nervous system feel pain and suffering and that it is a bad thing to impose this pain and suffering on them needlessly. I think you can agree that suffering is the worst feeling that is possible for a being to experience. I would not support the meat farming of humans by an alien race, nor do i support humans doing the same
CantWeedThis 1 month ago
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@Ollie7707 " I'm sitting here with my cat. I like him, but here's the thing: he doesn't have any perception of life and death. I wouldn't kill him, but if I did, it wouldn't be against any law."
LOL? I assure you that if you killed your cat you would be breaking a law. Have you ever heard of animal abuse? How about animal cruelty?. Killing animals is a jailable offense. The stupidity of some people is truly astounding isnt it?
CantWeedThis 1 month ago
lol you're an idiot you didn't pwn anything but yourself
fammentra 2 months ago
Bullshit.
PaperTreeMusic 2 months ago
extremely shortsighted video. Frustrating
Rapchaid 2 months ago
@Rapchaid It might help if you offer why you think so. :)
emitremmus 2 months ago
@emitremmus because when someone purchases meat, they are fuelling a bloated industry that breeds and ends thousands of animals every day, and severely damages the liveability of the planet unnecessarily. There's other ways of looking at this but that's a fact. It has very little to nothing to do with how self-aware the animals are, they pose no threat to us and meat is not essential for a healthy diet
Rapchaid 2 months ago
@emitremmus *animal's lives
Rapchaid 2 months ago
God, this video is shit. What a waste of time
CanadaCane 2 months ago
onision is such an ez target
religion is invalid... yet somewhere else he says "you go to the pits of hell" uuuuh huh
kilkolio 2 months ago
Whether you eat meat or not, someone else is going to be eating meat, the same amount of animals is going to be killed whether you eat meat or not. You might as well eat meat.
kalphitekil 3 months ago 4
Your more developed frontal lobe doesn't mean you are really alive and animals are not douche-bag. Onision is a dickhead but so are you. You are both douche-bag dickheads.
AnotherAgnostic 3 months ago
He's a little crazy/ignorant butt he was really funny and intelligent before his divorce poor guy it just made him even crazier now he's with a psycho little girl who looks like a troll
TheKellymz 3 months ago
Now go look up 'good energy', take the train, and realise most bugs move around in bad conditions and like trying to smack a fly in the air, not easily. As time goes on things change and become more moral so long as people wish to be more moral.
TheaDragonSpirit 4 months ago
Plus you can't kill micro bugs by stepping on them, their too small like water they would just move in-between the gaps in your shoes. The only bugs you would kill is ones you could actually see being killed.
TheaDragonSpirit 4 months ago
@TheaDragonSpirit That was exactly what I was thinking about considering what you would crush.
So by that definition the only ''massmurderer woud be an indian elephant flattening the junglefloor and some insects with it's enormous weight and groundpressure.
The most ridiculous thing is that Onionson :P seems to be comparing ''eating other types of food instead of meat'' to ''not not (or still) walking around because you have to be able to travel despite that you might kill a bacteria or flea''
rocksparadox 3 months ago
@rocksparadox - Everyone kills bacteria every day... they also kill us... We have no choice in this. But I don't worry about killing bacteria or even plants really. I prefer not to kill plants or harm them, as I don't want to harm any life, however I see it more like this. Bacteria, Vegetables and Plants lack a nervous system, so even if they were somehow conscious, there would be no afferent neurons to carry pain messages. Meaning they don't suffer pain, like animals and we do.
TheaDragonSpirit 3 months ago
@rocksparadox - Some will argue killing fleas is self defence as well. To not kill them could in the future cause them to get ill and die. Some people see killing bugs as self defence against disease. They don't feel animals should be put through endless pain just to be eaten when we don't need and its actually unhealthy too eat them, and their no threat to people. However bugs and fleas carry plagues and other problems. Personally I say remove bugs don't kill them. Cure diseases with diet!
TheaDragonSpirit 3 months ago
@TheaDragonSpirit Exactly, i will nurture my good bacteria, and KILL any parasite that comes near me.
Survival of the fittest my friend, and I believe killing and eating certain animals is at least not detrimental to my health and our teeth are those of omnivorous mammals .
rocksparadox 3 months ago
@rocksparadox - That's bull! Look up a horses teeth. Their herbivores, and they look like carnivores. Look them up. We have a body structure very close to a herbivore, closer to a herbivore then a omnivore. I would say we was herbivores who have adapted to eating meat in order to survive. All my research shows that we should be on a vegan diet. Not a carnivore diet. Eating meat is dangerous. It's not survival of the fittest another load of bull! If bee's die. WE DIE TOO! It's united we stand!
TheaDragonSpirit 3 months ago
@TheaDragonSpirit ''all your research''.. and how many ''years'' has that taken ?
Anyway Onision is still a selfrighteous fag.
rocksparadox 3 months ago
@rocksparadox Hahah you got owned, just shut up, he's right.
InsertGames 3 months ago
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@InsertGames fagtroll is a fag, shut the fuck up...
Little bitch :D
rocksparadox 3 months ago
@rocksparadox
onision's research is just looking at wikipedia
lets go edit some "facts" as he so calls them and make him make a big turn around
hey onision look at these "facts" i edited that prove you wrong! derp derp!
kilkolio 2 months ago
Basically I will sum it up like this it is better to kill less life then more life. And I know animals suffer, never seen a garlic cry out in pain... The less life you kill the better. The less farms spreading disease, the better. Caring for animals and raising your own animals is better. Killing your own dog for food is better. Since you like meat. The point of ethics is to be going to the point of better, not worse! Maybe in the future will keep bugs in the wild. Later.
TheaDragonSpirit 4 months ago
Next you will state well if all animals are in good clean conditions well aired organic environment it will be fine. Which is true, but guess what that's not sustainable. Secondly what is the point in killing life if you don't need too, if I accidentally stand on a bug I was not aware of I am still responsible... Yes and? When did I say I was Jesus? The point is too make it possible for me to walk round with out killing bugs! Since you care so much about them! Straw man! THINK! THICK-O!
TheaDragonSpirit 4 months ago
Oh and don't give me that tired argument eating meat only affects me and the animals I eat... which I need to eat to survive. No, it's healthier to be vegan, it's a well known fact by any nutritionist.
Bird flu: Factory farms! Look up that debate you... Foot and mouth... e-coli from animal poop on farms. Eating meat is also harming people who don't eat meat! Selfish cunts! Like the plague and rats in bad conditions harmed people. By eating meat you could be causing someone too die. Enjoy!
TheaDragonSpirit 4 months ago
You're next argument is floored, you basically say they is no grey area and everything is black and white. Hi ho hitler too you. Every ethical point comes in degrees the degree in which a person is and isn't willing to do something. But if you don't believe this is true please give me your address and ill rape anyone you know since ethics to you is pointless. Or at least this is what you just implied. All life is important, but we are human not gods. It's actually healthier to be vegan! :-)
TheaDragonSpirit 4 months ago
Right so let me get this straight since we don't know what a chicken feels its ok for me to play football with its head. Secondly it's fucking obvious that they feel pain and suffering... if you're not sure of this walk in to a cow field slap it on the arse and watch it moo... if you're really not sure though if animals feel. Please watch this video you fecking moron: watch?v=56BQF4yyOTE
TheaDragonSpirit 4 months ago
"I'm not going to feel sorry for you." Nobody asked you to be? I'm going to go feed some crickets to my spiders. I tried giving them veggies like you wanted but they flipped me off, so....
KawaiiKemonomimi 4 months ago
want proof chickens don´t want to die? Try to catch one. Notice something? They run away. Why? Maybe they assume naturally that because you don´t look like a chicken and so can't be trusted. They have to assume the worst, that your intention is to kill it. Right they are. Most americans couldn't catch a chicken if their lives depended on it. Most americans would start eating mostly fruit if they had to catch their own food simply because that would be the only food they could catch.
brahmamurti 4 months ago
I wonder if Onision likes fruit gushers? I only ask because the fillings are made using sea kelp reproductive fluids (sperm) and if he does he is depriving other sea kelp blooms of life.
Paratrooper12100 4 months ago
@Paratrooper12100 Well, I will never look at Fruit Gushers the same way again...
KawaiiKemonomimi 4 months ago
@KawaiiKemonomimi It shocked me when i found out too! lol
Paratrooper12100 4 months ago
What a prick........... This Onision fucker is such an asshole. If im eating something that is dead thats not murder. Organisms eat other organisms thats the natural order of things. It is a process that needs to happen for this earth to remain in a balanced way.
Paratrooper12100 4 months ago
if chickens didn't like being alive they would probs peck themselves to death!
lyladolly 4 months ago
i would love to punch him in the face :)
madchild0709 4 months ago
this video is ridiculously dumb... honestly this is a joke lol
ovechkin100 4 months ago
i guess if someone came and carved me up i wouldnt say anything because id be dead
tombeals69 5 months ago 18
Onision is a moron ( fact )
Infidelamsterdam 5 months ago 39
@Infidelamsterdam
your fact is in fact a fact ( fact )
tombeals69 5 months ago
@Infidelamsterdam be blocked me for not liking one of his videos. Shilo for teh win
iToasterman 4 months ago
@Logistica11735 no. are you?
sirbestnameever 5 months ago
this pussy needs to get fucked
sirbestnameever 5 months ago
Killing animals is my hobby, actually.
cheaze69 5 months ago
@KangoeroeSkippy Yes it dose. You do not offer your shelter to the birds that can not fly in the freezing rain, do you? You don't offer your heat and protection from the weather to the cattle who walk in it all day, do you? It is very selfish, I won't kill a cow and put it out of its possible missery, and instead i'll make it walk in the freezing cold and harsh rain while i snuggle under my blankets in my bed. I won't kill or eat it, instead im going to make it live a miserable life forever. GG
glittch135 5 months ago
awsome :3 <3
glittch135 5 months ago
What is wrong and right is a human invention. Everything i do is natural.
TinyArts 5 months ago
Dude, this is an Onision video. He's never serious.
devourerofbabies 5 months ago
@devourerofbabies Actualy under the set of videos on the channel Onision Speaks or w/e they are all sapose to be "Serious" videos. They are his practical opinions backed up by what he thinks. Onision speaks isn't one of his "Cartoon channels" it's more of one of those "This is my point of view, don't like it than die." channels.
glittch135 5 months ago
@KangoeroeSkippy Our brains our mostly made of fat. Plants don't have fat. The reason we have large brains is because we are not herbivores.
KorionDotNet 5 months ago
@KangoeroeSkippy
You should actually do your research because it's a scientific fact that if the early human race didn't eat meat then our brains wouldn't of developed the way they have now.
Tinysmyshe 5 months ago
Vegetarians are always so angry. I noticed his eyes were on the front of his head. That usually indicates a descendant or member of a predatory species since eyes up front allow better depth perception for hunting. In nature, vegetarian species have their eyes on the sides of their heads to better watch out for preds. Yeah. This guy is definately a member of a species that hunts so he might feel better if he went and got a cheeseburger.
JTSDAD67 5 months ago
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The idea that being a vegan will change anything as far as animal cruelty is concerned is oblivious idealism. And oblivious idealism is what dejects me the most about my naive human brethren.
iAMVyt 5 months ago
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We do torture animals, and it'd be nice to see some reform. But, I don't find vegetarianism a lifestyle superior to the one I have. I eat plenty of fruits/vegetables/meats and avoid sugars and salts. I also take plenty of multivitamins. I am pretty healthy thanks to all of this, and I'd hate to never eat meat again. Anyone who thinks being a vegan is superior to any other healthy diet is just an elitist.
iAMVyt 5 months ago
pigs have been proven to be smarter then dogs. soooo what goes to you the owner of this video.
gotthkid2 5 months ago
Some one told me onison is smart. He just doesn't understand this world. No one cares what he says. I watch his videos to make fun of him.
Derekbutler19 5 months ago
i'm a vegetarian and Onision pisses me the fuck off
TheSecretStalker21 6 months ago
@TheMasterNull Lmfao. You do not need meat to survive , you want it.
FameSpelledWithK 6 months ago
Huh? You need evidence that a cow or a chicken VALUE THEIR LIVES? This statement could only be made by someone who has never butchered the animals they eat, or visited a slaughterhouse, or even lived on a family farm where the cows will strike out against an attacking predator...OR .even tried to take an egg away from a mother hen! Protecting life is also about 'self interest'. And by the way, the guy you are critiquing actually makes perfect sense!
animalactivist 6 months ago
i so agree with u that he is so wrong
Jaycutler129 6 months ago
I'm a vegetarian. And I find it harsh that killing animals and eating them are bad and sad. But, you didn't have to tell them they going to hell because they are trying to stay alive. Clearly, this is an old video of "Onision" and I think he's changed.
xXOnisionDawsonXx 6 months ago
That guy is a real piece of shit. I'd like to punch him in the face.
ssimon64 6 months ago
does anyone know where he lives? i feel like strangling him with his own guts
Madman1234855 6 months ago
I don't murder animals I just eat them.
Ahhimonfire 6 months ago
The only dumbass in this video is the idiot who thinks he's smarter than Onision.
IIproductionsII 6 months ago
@IIproductionsII pfffffff nice one. You had me going there for a sec.
uiruu 6 months ago
Give yourself a big steak in the back for this being bloody rotten.
ska213 6 months ago
WOW! you used editing to make someone look stupid, then diconstructed and countered his argument with a load of bullshit. Well done.
jaffabox 6 months ago 2
have you ever heard a pig squeal in fear? have you seen an animal thrash against something that it's being tied to during a loud, scary noise or a storm? i do. i all but live at a barn with these animals, and i can positively assure you they have a will to live.
CanOnlyFly 6 months ago
Thank you so fucking much for bringing out the stupidity of this idiot. This guy is a huge hypocrite and although i doubt he will see this and if he does he would never accept how wrong he is, at least i know im not alone in knowing. This guy is such a bitch and needs to get off his huuuge fucking internet high horse. This guy thinks he's like revolutionary. He's on youtube... People need to stop being so fucking self richeous. You can't change the world by complaining behind your computer....
pegasuslover97 6 months ago
...and since it'd be EXTREMELY hard to break a Lion of it's habit of hunting, in fact it would possibly take thousands-if not millions-of years too completely rid a species of a specific habit, what makes humans any different.
We're animals, accept it or not. We do what we do, eat what we eat, because we've been bred to, why do you think we have Appendix's or 'Wisdom teeth', we needed those for the meat so we could break it down and digest it properly before the ability to cook came about.
TheHappyLilCamper 7 months ago
Did you know that if humans hadn't eaten meat, we wouldn't have had the mental ability to become what we have become today.
We'd be literal 'half-wits' if we had not consumed meat.
We need/needed the protein to allow our brains to develop further. Otherwise we would've been very much like our Primate counterparts.
So, for anyone who says eating meat is wrong, remember that Humans are animals as much as Lions, Bears, or Cows.
Lions hunt meat, does that mean they're evil? No.
TheHappyLilCamper 7 months ago
I see some mighty fine trolling here.
MuscleCarsB 7 months ago
Whether you would like to be a human, whale, cow, fish or whatever is irrelevant. What matters is whether one species is 'superior' to the other and has the right to dominate the planet.
cmadison93 7 months ago
@PwnFilms You have to be very cold hearted to not be aware enough about life to think that animals don't feel and hurt. It is almost better that you were like the billions of sheeple out there not wanting to know how their rotting flesh gets to the market. At least this way you could claim simple ignorance rather than cruel hateful selfish stupidity. But how's those carcinogens, animal antibiotics, bovine homones, saturated fat, LDL cholesterol, feces, stapph corsing thru your viens??
FathomlessJoy 7 months ago
My dog ran off the porch Sunday afternoon and trapped a little deer in the yard. He got it by its neck as it called to its mother, who was trying to fight the dog off. The baby sounded like a lamb, over and over, calling for its mother who could not help. For hours after, the mother kept coming back in that spot looking for its baby. It did this for 3 afternoons in a row. The fact is, torturing animals for pleasure is cruel and inflicts a horrid amount of suffering on our fellow beings. Proven!
FathomlessJoy 7 months ago
Can you give me some testable evidence that infants are self-aware, have feelings, have a desire to live? If not, should it be free game to eat them?
It is possible for us to continue our way of life and still be environmentally and animal-friendly.
cmadison93 7 months ago
Onision is a complete idiot, unfortunately.
As a vegan atheist, I find him to be a despicable person.
cmadison93 7 months ago
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CharmingLordSausage 7 months ago
I agree with you, but.... Onision is just standing up for what he thinks. Kinda like you are. We're all people. No need to point out anyones wrong. You and him are in the wrong. Don't bash on other people when you know they're wrong. He's right by his standards, you're right by yours.
curlysuesap 7 months ago
@smyshey There are no nociceptors found in insects, thus they are unable to feel pain like animals can. Secondly, brushing the ground would not serve to eliminate very tiny insects and the very act of brushing would actually kill or injure some of them. But if you're the type of person who practices such things, that's your affair. Please leave constructive comments that are supported by science. :)
desmodaeus 7 months ago
@desmodaeus
Given that cultures do just that to save insect life then your point is pointless otherwise why would they do it? Also alot of insects can feel pain so I suggest you research your evidence again. I would also like to add that they would only die this way if you have a hard end brush. If I quickly kill a human or any other animal in a fast way so they don't feel any pain does that make it acceptable?
I love the excusses vegetarians make when this happens
Smyshey 7 months ago
@Smyshey Regardless of the type of brush, certain insects a millimeter or less in length would still be killed or missed altogether by the brush. It is a silly and ineffective solution. Secondly, you are quite obviously uneducated on the subject of insects and pain reception. Show me one reliable scientific source which has demonstrated insects have the ability to feel pain. You can't, because such a source does not exist.
desmodaeus 7 months ago
@desmodaeus
So your whole pont is that they don't feel pain when they are going to die so it's ok to kill them? great argument you have there buddy, and you call me uneducated.
Smyshey 7 months ago
@Smyshey
Sorry, I am aware that their are some insects which are being intentionally bred for those purpose, which I neglected to mention in my previous comment.
But the point still stands.
Walking along a dirt path and stepping on bugs in the process =/= intentional breeding/exploitation/abuse of insects/animals for consumption purposes.
cmadison93 7 months ago
@cmadison93
I am against the cruelty of how they are treated before killed but I'm not against the consumption of meat. Thefact is that anything you do in our society either profits the death of animals or kills them directly. Think about how many animals were removed from their habitat just so your house could be built. I am not saying you are in the wrong for living in the house but if you wanted to do less damage as possible to animals then you could live in a hut, hopefully you get mypoint
Smyshey 7 months ago
@Smyshey
For the building of my house, no animals were 'removed from their habitat' actually.
Anyway, just because there have been mistakes in the past doesn't mean we should still continue doing so. There are ways to repair the damage we have done and to reduce our 'interference' to a more appropriate level.
There are ways to live a modern way of life and still be environmentally and animal friendly.
cmadison93 7 months ago
@Smyshey Please read up and educate yourself before throwing out misguided information. Personal opinions do not trump scientific fact.
desmodaeus 7 months ago
@desmodaeus
It's a scientific fact that if I shot smeone in the head that they would die instantly with no pain, does that make it acceptable?
I love how you try to dodge my points by ignoring them and instead of commenting on my points you comment on my intelligence. You do use things like "misguided information" instead of a more simple way just to try and show how intelligent you are. The fact that you couldn't comment on my points show that grammar is the only thing you are good at here.
Smyshey 7 months ago
@Smyshey
Good search it and you will come across alotof sites explaining it.
Smyshey 7 months ago
@Smyshey I'll make this as brief as possible. Insects are not animals. They are lesser forms of life and although necessary to the success of our ecosystem, they are not capable of emotion, reason nor the concept of pain. It is nearly impossible to live life on this earth as any creature without causing death or suffering to another living thing.
desmodaeus 7 months ago
@desmodaeus
Now who is the unintelligent one? Insects do belong to the "animal" kingdom. Cows are lesser beings than humans and yet here you are complaining. The sells in your body are lesser forms of life than an insect, does that mean they aren't important?
I already know that death is natural in life but you are the one that is disagreeing with that.
Smyshey 7 months ago
@Smyshey You obviously are not interested in useful debate or discussion so I am done here. I will close with telling you to read my last comment here once more. I've already explained that insects are important, and the differences between them and "non-insect" animals, as well as my philosophy regarding them.
desmodaeus 7 months ago
@desmodaeus
Don't worry, I was finnished with this conversation when I realized you're the type of person that tries to dodge the main questions.
Smyshey 7 months ago
@desmodaeus
I find Smyshey's arguments against veganism/in favor of meat consumption to be rather elementary ones.........
cmadison93 7 months ago
@Smyshey
What makes a cow a 'lesser being' to us?
Sentience is the difference between animals and the cells that make them up. To try and say that each individual cell has the same value/importance of the whole is called the fallacy of division.
cmadison93 7 months ago
@cmadison93
It's what the cells make up that seperates us and makes us higher beings. You wouldn't trade places with a Cow would you? Why not? Because you're not a Cow.
Smyshey 7 months ago
@Smyshey
Nice strawman in the last portion of your comment. =)
"You wouldn't trade places with a Cow would you?"
1. Not if I was going to be killed just to be eaten by the human race
2. If just to be a cow grazing around, I don't know nor do I care.
Please, stop trying to move the goalpost and address my question:
What makes us so special?
All you have said is, "we are us, therefore we are special" which is just a display of question begging.
cmadison93 7 months ago
@cmadison93
We feel emotion, we have dreams, we evolve, we have created more, we are the most powerful species. By saying "we are us" I thought you would of been able to realize what I ment but you only believed what you wanted to believe.
If you had the choice to be a cow that isn't going to be slaughtered, what would you be? Human or Cow?
"If just to be a cow grazing arounf,I don't know nor do I care", why not? Because you know for a fact you don't want to swap places with one.
Smyshey 7 months ago
cmadison93 7 months ago
@Smyshey
our intelligence.
There are humans who are not as technologically advanced as some animals out there, or as the rest of the human race - should we kill them and eat them, too?
There are animals who are more cognitively developed than some human beings - so is it justifiable to kill and eat the mentally handicapped, who cannot create their own things? Is it justifiable to kill an infant because they aren't as intelligent and haven't built things?
cmadison93 7 months ago
@cmadison93 Yes people don't feel emotion and how do we brand them? Mentally "disabled" as in no as able as a normal human being. Animals feel emtion but not as much as humans do, their level of emotion is nowhere near our level. Name an animal that has more feelings tan a human being and then supply proof. "We have dream" I didn't think that you would be as stupid as to think I ment actual dreams so let me simplify it, we wish to be more thn what we are and evolve everyday.
Smyshey 7 months ago
@Smyshey
Wow, Smyshey. Just because I have brought up several counter-arguments to your points doesn't mean you should start resorting to ad hominem attacks. It's really not helping your case. I would appreciate it if we could continue on with a rational, logical discourse free of ad hominem. Let me know if you are unable to meet the standard for a logical debate.
cmadison93 7 months ago
@Smyshey
I'm just saying that there are human beings who are not as intelligent as the rest, not as emotionally developed. Doesn't necessarily mean they have a mental handicap.
There are animals out there who do have a higher cognitive and emotional ability than some humans.
Dolphins, primates, canines, felines, etc. Do the research.
Does the level of feeling emotional really determine the worth of things? I am more capable of feeling emotion than many other humans, so can I kill them?
cmadison93 7 months ago
@Smyshey
Are we allowed to let the smartest, most intelligent human being to completely dominate the human race an enslave us all and eat us all? According to your logic, that is the case.
"If you had the choice to be a cow that isn't going to be slaughtered, what would you be? Human or Cow?"
If I had the choice? I don't care, to be honest. I would be fine either way.
Why should I care?
"Because you know for a fact you don't want to swap places with one."
When did I ever say that?
cmadison93 7 months ago
@cmadison93
Oh ofcourse, you "don't care". If you really don't care then why have you adopted the idea of living in a house like a human insetad of living in the wild like other species? Because you do care. I'm sick of people like you using the "I don't care" excuse when they have nothing to say on the subject.
Smyshey 7 months ago
@Smyshey
What? I live in house because I am a human. I am not a cow. If I was a cow, I would live life like cows do. If I was a fish, I would live in the ocean. I don't claim that either one of those ways of life are 'better' or 'superior' to the other. I've never been a cow or fish, so I can't really speak out on how cows or fish feel or what their life is like.
You're not really making sense in this point, so could you elaborate, please?
Although, I would like to be a whale.
cmadison93 7 months ago
@cmadison93
You compare birds nests to a human house and say that our technology is the same simply because birds can make a nest. You are by far the worstperson to ever try prove their case with stupidity. Although humanity is part of the animal kingdo they still are the ones that have more differences than any other animal. Your points are pointless. You try to use others words against them but do it miserably. Good bye.
Smyshey 7 months ago
@Smyshey
Actually, my points are not pointless.
You are saying that those who can build more complex things are more dominant and superior. As such, why don't we have a select few people killing, enslaving and treating everyone like dirt because everyone else can't build things as complex as them?
I never said that their technology is the same as ours. I said that they can build things, too.
cmadison93 7 months ago
@Smyshey
I do value my intelligence, but that doesn't make me superior to those (other animals or humans) who are not as intelligent as myself. I do not have an ego complex here.
cmadison93 7 months ago
@cmadison93
So now animals can make technology? Cool. Iactualy don't know how to comment back to you, what you are saying is so idiotic that I really can't think of a way to coment back. Humans havemore "potential" than any other animal.
According to my logic? Em no, we are a species and I am not saying individual intelligence, I am talking about intelligence as a whole species. If you aregoing to state some points and base them on "my" knowledge then atleast understand what my knowledge is
Smyshey 7 months ago
@Smyshey
Are you sure you actually read my comment, Smyshey? I said that animals can and do build things. Birds build nests, beavers build dams, primates makes tools, etc.
Then I went on to say that you are probably referring to how we can make technology which somehow makes us superior. I say that some humans cannot create technology, some humans excel at that. Should those who excel at creating technology have the right to dominate over every one else and kill/eat them?
cmadison93 7 months ago
@Smyshey
I can say that the average level of intelligence for children is lower than the average level of intelligence for adults. Should we have free reign to kill children at our own pleasure?
Why do you make the distinction between 'species'? We are all related in the grand 'tree of life'.
We are all siblings, relatives, etc. Why does one have superiority over another?
If I am smarter than my brother, can I kill him?
cmadison93 7 months ago
@cmadison93
I'm sorry but I can't continue this conversation, you are just making bullshit out of it. Fact is that Humans are superior and if we weren't then we wouldn't have control of most of the planet and wouldn't of been able to make most of the world "our" habitat if we weren't superior. I litrally couldn't make it past the second reply because you ask for a rational and intelligent conversation while at the same time deny the fact that humanity is superior.
Smyshey 7 months ago
@Smyshey
I commend you for engaging in a thoroughly fallacious discussion, Smyshey. I congratulate you on your special pleading, ad hominem attacks, straw-mans and question begging.
You say my arguments are 'bullshit' but you have failed to provide sufficient reason to believe so.
Your type of dogmatic (or gullible) approach to life is a dangerous thing, Smyshey. I highly recommend you learn about logical fallacies and engage in critical thinking.
Cheers.
cmadison93 7 months ago
@cmadison93
So you are saying that a species that can add two numbers together isn't as smart as a species that hs no idea was a number is?
Like I said, your grammar is the only intelligent thing you have.
Smyshey 7 months ago
@Smyshey
So, are you saying that a species who has such a long neck (giraffe) is more valuable than a species who doesn't even know what it's like to have such a long neck?
Your points aren't really making sense, please elaborate.
cmadison93 7 months ago
@Smyshey My philosophy is to cause as little as possible and make sacrifices that are easily made (being vegan/vegetarian) in order to show compassion for the animals we share the earth with. Being vegan does not hinder my ability to live life, and therefore I see it as selfish not to be, though I understand that not everyone sees it this way.
desmodaeus 7 months ago
i agree with desmodaeus whole heartedly
talululovesyoo 7 months ago
We are the only animal that knows it's going to die.
Darthmas2242 7 months ago
>.> You're so fucking stupid. He's just saying that animals have a right to live. By killing and eating them, you are denying that right. I happen to agree. At the same time, I agree, he DOES need to calm down. That being said, just cause he states his poinon doesn't mean he's shoving it on you. Sure, he my be aggressive about it, but if you don't feel bad about eating meat, then why argue with him? Simply ignore him, for fucks sake.
Alienpelvis86 7 months ago
Oh-NISS-ion
Alienpelvis86 7 months ago
Being self aware or desiring life isn't the issue. The issue is that they do feel pain and inflicting pain on living beings for the sake of your taste buds is selfish and cruel.
desmodaeus 7 months ago 15
@desmodaeus
Do you carry a brush everywhere you go and sweep the ground infront of you before walking on that piece of ground to ensure no insects are on the ground when you step on the ground? No? Well then you are a selfish and cruel person for not taking such actions just so you don't look like a fool and can travel faster.
Now you are going to make a stupid excuse to try and say that insects don't apply and that no one else takes such actions and I say to that that you're wrong.
Smyshey 7 months ago
@Smyshey
This is a rather terrible comparison, Smyshey.
We are intentionally breeding, exploiting and abusing animals for our own pleasure. We aren't going around intentionally breeding insects - just so we can step on them and eat them and their by-products.
cmadison93 7 months ago
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bmehoota 5 months ago
@desmodaeus If animals could eat you, They would. The world is a cruel and selfish place so get over it. If we released all the chickens in the world into the wild, It would be a killing spree for wolfs, raccoons, and other animals not to mention diseases and parasites. Your goals are noble but pain is part of life. In fact most animals evolved to feel pain because of the survival benefits of it so I could say blame it on the genes. Being self aware and desiring life does hold greater value.
bmehoota 5 months ago
@bmehoota Yes, animals might eat me if they were hungry. You are correct. And it is reason that separates us humans from the rest of the beasts on this planet. The gift/curse of reason doesn't allow us to categorize ourselves along with other creatures who do not possess it. Because we have the power to do as we wish to other living things does not mean that we should. A wolf doesn't have the ability to consider these things. We do. We have no excuse.
desmodaeus 5 months ago
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bmehoota 5 months ago
Comment removed
bmehoota 5 months ago
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@desmodaeus "we have the power to do as we wish to other living things does not mean that we should." Why? I value human life far greater then any other animals. If you had to scale how many chickens lives would equal one human life what would be your answer?
bmehoota 5 months ago
@bmehoota Why should we not always do as we wish because we can? I suppose it is because those of us who are not psychotic understand that doing as we want is not always the best choice. With power comes responsibility. Of course history teaches us that there are those who disagree; Adolf Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, etc... So it is at least safe to say that you are not alone in your opinion.
desmodaeus 5 months ago
@desmodaeus You didn't answer my second question. As far as my first question you kind of dodged it by saying its psychotic and not really give me any examples like why we should value chickens and cow lives over our human desires, instead you personally attacked me by saying my opinions are the same as Adolf Hitler. Ironically Adolf Hitler was a vegetarian, however you don't see me calling you a Nazi just to distract from the real argument. I'm only wondering what you think.
bmehoota 5 months ago
@bmehoota Well, I apologize but to be fair you did start this argument out by telling me to "get over it" and that didn't set a very friendly tone. As for why we should value the lives of a living creature... How do you explain compassion or the value of life to someone? I suppose it is either something you feel within you or you do not. Arguing from a purely logical point of view, you will win this debate. But I do not see this world through logic alone.
desmodaeus 5 months ago
@desmodaeus Shouldn't you base your emotions off of logic rather then see them separate?
bmehoota 5 months ago
@bmehoota If we all did that, then we would cease to be human and become nothing more than machines. Our emotions are not kept in a box waiting to be released by logic. We do many things that are illogical, yet they make us happy or allow those less fortunate to benefit in some way. Logic is useful, but it must be tempered with compassion and a deeper understanding of our place in this universe.
desmodaeus 5 months ago
@desmodaeus
You live in a house, that makes you cruel and selfish. An animal habitat was destroyed so that your house could be built and by you paying to live in that house you benefit the idea of destroying animal life so that humans can live happily. If you own a car then I can say you're cruel because cars are responsible for many deaths of animals on the road.
You're right, they do feel pain but do you focus on the pain of animals that you are playing a part in? Ofcourse not.
Tinysmyshe 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@desmodaeus
You live in a house, that makes you cruel and selfish. An animal habitat was destroyed so that your house could be built and by you paying to live in that house you benefit the idea of destroying animal life so that humans can live happily. If you own a car then I can say you're cruel because cars are responsible for many deaths of animals on the road.
You're right, they do feel pain but do you focus on the pain of animals that you are playing a part in? Ofcourse not.
Tinysmyshe 5 months ago
I think that anything alive want's to live, even plants.... I don't think that desire only comes with self-aware beings... its something in the organisim that makes it grow and keep trying to stay alive... but again, that includes plants too.
Spacebull 8 months ago
@LittleMonsterGirlie Who cares.Humans are better.
fuck1929 8 months ago
Actually eating meat is murdering....It's massacring...
Tygerlily179 8 months ago
@Tygerlily179 thanks for making me feel badass.
angrydead 8 months ago
@Tygerlily179 and.. who cares if its murdering meat its more nutritive and tastes good
IvanMD09 7 months ago