@DarkMan352 The smoking happens at the terminal points of the tubes, and not any part of the electronics. Although I haven't got a proper high voltage probe, I believe the power supply is working perfectly. One of these days I will try cleaning up those contact points, as part of them are blackened.
@ksmons I don't know that I can speak about the wiring intelligently. It seems that the simple twisted wire ends are actually very common. I still do not believe it to be the best way. I could be wrong.
You wouldn't like what My brother and even my self do sometimes, Get something that blows fuses too often with no obvious sign of trouble, we bridge the fuse to try and cause something else to give.
By listening to the power supply I think you had the right idea. Just knowing what a device is supposed to sound like especially a mechanical one can be a world of help in troubleshooting. Any deviation from the norm can tell quite a bit about what the problem might be.
I once worked on a Papa John's Pizza sign. The switches they included were horribly cheap and broke not even six months into service. Off to RadioShack for a couple of toggle switches. The toggle switches were a choice I made. They didn't like the pull chain as the switch in it was unpredictable.
@CenTexVideo There is a version of this transformer with a dimming mode. You can see the artifact for the second switch used to dim the sign. I was surprised to see that the switch does not appear to actually shut off power to the sign. It seems to merely shut the switchmode controller IC down.
No surprise to me. As for many years in the US industries, everyone emphasized on the efficencies and profit margin. When some smart guys incharged with a sweet talk talent. Shacky products with problems hidden, but looks good in appearence.They got a big bonus in saving the cost (by not properly soldered the wires and hide it under the boot), You will buy a new one soon by making the repair cost not economically affordable. This is why our US manufacturing is fall behind in quality and safety.
I have around 15 of those in my basement I got them over the years when I was working for NCR
there main contract is ATM service. I also know NEON is a lost art I only know one NEON guy in my area you can find guys to work on the electronics but very few for the glass.
Neon seems to be making a bit of a comeback in Western Canada at least, you didn't used to see them at all and now every other bar, restaurant, or store seems to be using them along with new movie theaters and shopping malls.
hmm I am sitting here wondering if these signs was either in a chinese restaraunt or one of those foreign owned dirty gas stations but either way they are beyond their life cycle and is probally best to trash em or use them in the keykeepers truck for a good prank makin people think he is an atm lol great video
@blazerlover25 I don't think any of these were in a restaurant, but I don't know their history. I'd like to fix them...these should have lasted a lot longer than the two or so years that they did.
They'd go well with the BBPOJ if I left them in nonworking condition!
I think that the larger and higher end signs like a theater, store, or casino would have (if that's the term) use a linear power supply rather then a switch mode type like these do. But the larger signs are also custom made unlike an ATM or a beer company sign so they would likely use higher quality power supplies since they would no doubt have a heavier work load. I've noticed that the ones Aussie 50 picks up are frequently inside metal boxes and potted in tar and are quite heavy.
@OlegKostoglatov For a larger, more professionally made sign, I would certainly hope to see a power supply built to better standards than are required.
I was surprised to see that these were not potted, if only to keep people from repairing or examining the circuit.
@uxwbill Considering that they are switch mode and have trasistors requiring a heat sink maybe they figured that they would need more ventiltion for cooling? To me they look like they were intended for indoor use like hanging in a window so they probably didn't think it was worth the extra expense to pot a supply for such a cheap sign.
It's not much fun when things go bang as you say, but it's a lot of fun watching Aussie50 and v8Jagnut blowing things up, I know you watch their videos because you leave comments on them. These Neon signs are pretty interesting, I've generally not seen Neon signs advertising ATM's. most ATM's I've used here usually just have a painted sign illuminated by a couple of fluorescent tubes.
@Lachlant1984 If I'm looking to have something blow up, I'm OK with it. It's only when things catch me off guard. I do watch their videos fairly regularly.
I've seen ones that are built into of an ATM. Those do use fluorescent lights.
@uxwbill You say these use fluorescent lights, that's interesting, I thought there was a difference between standard fluorescent tubes like you'd find in a typical lighting setup and these coloured Neon signs, I'm sure there are technical differences, but i'm getting out of my depth and most likely don't know what I'm talking about.
@Lachlant1984 No, these are really neon tubes. I was trying to say that I have seen other signs--usually built into ATM units--that use fluorescent tubes behind a plastic sign.
@9196d No longer than the sign was powered, I wasn't all that worried about it. I don't believe there has been any gasoline in that can for some time now.
This is why I prefer the older style neon transformers from the 80s that have just a simple step up transformer and have no electronics in them to break down. They run for hours and days and weeks on end and they just keep going.
oh come bill, v8 ignition systems aren't that dangerous, our 351 in our boat was running at idle and i was pushing down on all the leads at the distributor and two of them gave a really good shock, the sparkplug lead for our old school snowthower did the same but with much more of a sudden jolt
@joeyf504327 Perhaps not, although you have to keep in mind that people from all walks of life watch these videos. For someone who has a Pacemaker or isn't in the best of health, any sudden exposure to electricity could be a serious problem.
@doberfag If the neon in these signs would turn out to be bad, I could see using one of the power supplies for that. Not sure how well it would stand such things, or if it would put out the kind of oomph needed for a good show, but it would be worth a shot.
Ooo neons.... I've played about with them and this is what i've found:
Those connections are generally twisted. I have some ex-jukebox neons which are twisted on and also i've replaced neons in signs which are twisted. You might want to research that.
It could be the neons themselves if it's not the wiring as they do expire after many many thousands of hours. Classic signs of failure are flickering tubes. I say swap out the M (or any other letter) from the other neon sign then try it again.
Obviously somebody wasn't loved as a child (thewhiskey2strokeUSA). Unbelievable for someone to comment so harshly without having such material to back it up. Very sad. As for the video, informative and entertaining as usual. Only one exception, Bizzarefurhead is a little frightening, I didn't know he was into fashion, LOL! He is definitly the funny part of the video, LOL!
@madmaxz1010 That is an extremely good question, one that I'm not sure I have an answer to. I could only guess that high ripple could have been making the controller IC operate incorrectly, but I'm not sure enough of my ground to be certain of that.
As soon as line power came back, the sign would shut down again.
thewhiskey2strokeUSA, Generator output is NOT a smooth, stable power ban, it peaks and falls sharply. You are probably thinking of a generator with a built in inverter, like a Honda EU2000i, they put out computer grade power.
@onan75 not if you get a good branded one, or if you run it through a back up 120/240 power inverter, tesla500 has one that puts a much cleaner sine wave than his outlet, generators aren't all that bad, sometimes your wall outlet can be a lot worse
Bignacho25, you discharge a capacitor by grounding it. Depending on what the capacitor is for I usually use a screwdriver with an INSULATED handle to cross it out to ground.
@Bignacho25 The right way would be to use an appropriate resistor attached to a well insulated object. Touch the resistor leads to the capacitor for a minute or so. A voltmeter should be used in conjunction with the resistor to verify that the capacitor is discharging. To prevent any possible recovery of charge, the capacitor leads should then be shorted with a jumper. Remove the jumper when done.
There are calculations to exactly determine resistor value and time to discharge.
Try a telephone ring signal to improve your dancing, 90v peak to peak at 20Hz will make you dance real good, learned that when I was 4 years old, but I can't dance either.
Ive never seen one of those, but when you showed the psu i reacted the same as you did, oow its a smp with a lopt nailed to the end :-)
i would use a small knife and scrape the black off the tube wires and the black thats on the glass bit as i think the paint may be conducting between the wires.
nice video! I love working with electronics, particularly audio related equipment. However, due to having a visual impairment, testing things with the covers off is even more unsafe than usual; I generally put a cover next to the power supply system before I test.
I have the very same neon sine on my liveing room wall but it says BUD ICE and was also made in the USA and on the power supply it states it can run from 120-240 volt ive had no problems with mine but i have to say i don't use it that much. Thay realy should of used a proper iron core transformer i think, i hate electronic crap like thay put in things theese days eg floresent light ballasts, switchmode power supplys ect... it just wont last!! Great video. Phil.
Once, when I was much younger, I had an old Sony receiver that kept blowing fuses, and finally, one day, it just blew the fuse every time you turned it on. Since it was so old and not really of much use anymore anyway, I just decided to hard wire the fuse connection with a piece of copper wire, just to see what would happen. Lots of smoke and crackling is what happened, lol. Still, at least I was safe about it, and did it outside, and with as much protection to myself as possible.
The main reason I never became a full-fledged radio engineer was because I was just too chicken to put my hand in a transmitter that had 50,000 volts in it... I also will not touch old CRT TV's for the same reason. :) JC
Well said, Bill. Some people don't take proper steps to be safe with electronic stuff. I'm very nervous when I open up a power supply to clean it (Even after letting it sit for a few days unplugged). Electricity is fun, but VERY UNFORGIVING!
Can i have the one that smokes my dad knows alot on eletroncis and he mite be able to fix it. You dont half to its just if you dont want it
DarkMan352 3 weeks ago
@DarkMan352 The smoking happens at the terminal points of the tubes, and not any part of the electronics. Although I haven't got a proper high voltage probe, I believe the power supply is working perfectly. One of these days I will try cleaning up those contact points, as part of them are blackened.
uxwbill 3 weeks ago
@uxwbill oh, well i got a question: If you was gonna give one neon sign away whitch one whould it be and why
DarkMan352 3 weeks ago
Getting back to those cheaply wrapped/twisted leads, do you recommend soldering the leads instead of crimping?
ksmons 1 month ago
@ksmons I don't know that I can speak about the wiring intelligently. It seems that the simple twisted wire ends are actually very common. I still do not believe it to be the best way. I could be wrong.
uxwbill 1 month ago
That PSU could have Chinese parts inside it!, the old simple NST's last much longer
HDXFH 2 months ago
the thing looked like a flyback transformer on crack.
SpeakerFreak95 2 months ago
You wouldn't like what My brother and even my self do sometimes, Get something that blows fuses too often with no obvious sign of trouble, we bridge the fuse to try and cause something else to give.
TheMrbum 2 months ago
By listening to the power supply I think you had the right idea. Just knowing what a device is supposed to sound like especially a mechanical one can be a world of help in troubleshooting. Any deviation from the norm can tell quite a bit about what the problem might be.
bratina501 2 months ago
what if the psu exploded when your ear was near it?
itouchhacker241 2 months ago
@itouchhacker241 ...that is exactly why I don't make a habit of doing such things!
Outright explosions are pretty rare, though.
uxwbill 2 months ago
You can replace your friends. ;)
eliw4232 2 months ago
@eliw4232 Do you get replacements at a store somewhere? ;-)
uxwbill 2 months ago
Neon signs (not like these) are cool.
I once worked on a Papa John's Pizza sign. The switches they included were horribly cheap and broke not even six months into service. Off to RadioShack for a couple of toggle switches. The toggle switches were a choice I made. They didn't like the pull chain as the switch in it was unpredictable.
CenTexVideo 2 months ago
@CenTexVideo There is a version of this transformer with a dimming mode. You can see the artifact for the second switch used to dim the sign. I was surprised to see that the switch does not appear to actually shut off power to the sign. It seems to merely shut the switchmode controller IC down.
uxwbill 2 months ago
@uxwbill You got me thinking about the beer signs in quickie marts. I need to check those out.
I've seen some, probably not like these, that allow for flashing of the sign. Naturally, no relay.
CenTexVideo 2 months ago
No surprise to me. As for many years in the US industries, everyone emphasized on the efficencies and profit margin. When some smart guys incharged with a sweet talk talent. Shacky products with problems hidden, but looks good in appearence.They got a big bonus in saving the cost (by not properly soldered the wires and hide it under the boot), You will buy a new one soon by making the repair cost not economically affordable. This is why our US manufacturing is fall behind in quality and safety.
ntydk 2 months ago
I have around 15 of those in my basement I got them over the years when I was working for NCR
there main contract is ATM service. I also know NEON is a lost art I only know one NEON guy in my area you can find guys to work on the electronics but very few for the glass.
ncrdisabled 2 months ago
Neon seems to be making a bit of a comeback in Western Canada at least, you didn't used to see them at all and now every other bar, restaurant, or store seems to be using them along with new movie theaters and shopping malls.
OlegKostoglatov 2 months ago
hmm I am sitting here wondering if these signs was either in a chinese restaraunt or one of those foreign owned dirty gas stations but either way they are beyond their life cycle and is probally best to trash em or use them in the keykeepers truck for a good prank makin people think he is an atm lol great video
blazerlover25 2 months ago
@blazerlover25 I don't think any of these were in a restaurant, but I don't know their history. I'd like to fix them...these should have lasted a lot longer than the two or so years that they did.
They'd go well with the BBPOJ if I left them in nonworking condition!
uxwbill 2 months ago
cud cleaning them so there not dusty be better im sure they get pretty hot cud be that burning lol great vid
R3dDi3se1 2 months ago
@R3dDi3se1 I plan to clean the dirty sign, though I don't believe the dust is burning. Smoke appears to be coming from under the rubber contact boot.
uxwbill 2 months ago
That is GREAT advice. Safety when working with electronics is first and formost. I deal with it every day. As always a great video.
schomminater 2 months ago
I dont think its a good idea to put a smokeing neon sign near a gasoline tanks. (8:58)
gta4life55 2 months ago
@gta4life55 You're probably right, although the two were not that close, nor was the sign operated for any length of time.
uxwbill 2 months ago
U would think they could have easily done better,safer wire connections.But they are still really cool signs..
wtbm123 2 months ago in playlist Kitchen Table Electronics Repair
I think that the larger and higher end signs like a theater, store, or casino would have (if that's the term) use a linear power supply rather then a switch mode type like these do. But the larger signs are also custom made unlike an ATM or a beer company sign so they would likely use higher quality power supplies since they would no doubt have a heavier work load. I've noticed that the ones Aussie 50 picks up are frequently inside metal boxes and potted in tar and are quite heavy.
OlegKostoglatov 2 months ago
@OlegKostoglatov For a larger, more professionally made sign, I would certainly hope to see a power supply built to better standards than are required.
I was surprised to see that these were not potted, if only to keep people from repairing or examining the circuit.
uxwbill 2 months ago
@uxwbill Considering that they are switch mode and have trasistors requiring a heat sink maybe they figured that they would need more ventiltion for cooling? To me they look like they were intended for indoor use like hanging in a window so they probably didn't think it was worth the extra expense to pot a supply for such a cheap sign.
OlegKostoglatov 2 months ago
@OlegKostoglatov These are definitely for indoor use.
I saw a very cheap fluorescent light ballast that was fully potted. The switching transistors were left peeking through the compound.
uxwbill 2 months ago
ATM smoke! Don't breathe this!
vwestlife 2 months ago 6
Could the black possibly be cathode poisoning?
NJRoadfan 2 months ago
@NJRoadfan I'm not sure, but I don't think so.
uxwbill 2 months ago
It's not much fun when things go bang as you say, but it's a lot of fun watching Aussie50 and v8Jagnut blowing things up, I know you watch their videos because you leave comments on them. These Neon signs are pretty interesting, I've generally not seen Neon signs advertising ATM's. most ATM's I've used here usually just have a painted sign illuminated by a couple of fluorescent tubes.
Lachlant1984 2 months ago
@Lachlant1984 If I'm looking to have something blow up, I'm OK with it. It's only when things catch me off guard. I do watch their videos fairly regularly.
I've seen ones that are built into of an ATM. Those do use fluorescent lights.
uxwbill 2 months ago
@uxwbill You say these use fluorescent lights, that's interesting, I thought there was a difference between standard fluorescent tubes like you'd find in a typical lighting setup and these coloured Neon signs, I'm sure there are technical differences, but i'm getting out of my depth and most likely don't know what I'm talking about.
Lachlant1984 2 months ago
@Lachlant1984 No, these are really neon tubes. I was trying to say that I have seen other signs--usually built into ATM units--that use fluorescent tubes behind a plastic sign.
uxwbill 2 months ago
turn it on behind cover but its next to a gas can?!? @ 9:24
9196d 2 months ago 3
@9196d No longer than the sign was powered, I wasn't all that worried about it. I don't believe there has been any gasoline in that can for some time now.
uxwbill 2 months ago
This is why I prefer the older style neon transformers from the 80s that have just a simple step up transformer and have no electronics in them to break down. They run for hours and days and weeks on end and they just keep going.
coondogtheman1234 2 months ago
a higher voltage fuse won't make a difference unless its a lower voltage, but amp wise is always important
joeyf504327 2 months ago
oh come bill, v8 ignition systems aren't that dangerous, our 351 in our boat was running at idle and i was pushing down on all the leads at the distributor and two of them gave a really good shock, the sparkplug lead for our old school snowthower did the same but with much more of a sudden jolt
joeyf504327 2 months ago
@joeyf504327 Perhaps not, although you have to keep in mind that people from all walks of life watch these videos. For someone who has a Pacemaker or isn't in the best of health, any sudden exposure to electricity could be a serious problem.
uxwbill 2 months ago
@uxwbill thats true, safety first as they always say i guess, do you watch any photonicinduction?
joeyf504327 2 months ago
@joeyf504327 I've been known to.
uxwbill 2 months ago
jacobs ladders...cool for halloween
doberfag 2 months ago
@doberfag If the neon in these signs would turn out to be bad, I could see using one of the power supplies for that. Not sure how well it would stand such things, or if it would put out the kind of oomph needed for a good show, but it would be worth a shot.
uxwbill 2 months ago
Ooo neons.... I've played about with them and this is what i've found:
Those connections are generally twisted. I have some ex-jukebox neons which are twisted on and also i've replaced neons in signs which are twisted. You might want to research that.
It could be the neons themselves if it's not the wiring as they do expire after many many thousands of hours. Classic signs of failure are flickering tubes. I say swap out the M (or any other letter) from the other neon sign then try it again.
MrStelmer 2 months ago
@MrStelmer Good to hear from someone who has worked on these! I'm still surprised by the twisting, it just doesn't "seem right" with high voltages.
I'm going to recap the other sign of the same style and see how it behaves. Both have about the same hours on them from what I can determine.
uxwbill 2 months ago
Obviously somebody wasn't loved as a child (thewhiskey2strokeUSA). Unbelievable for someone to comment so harshly without having such material to back it up. Very sad. As for the video, informative and entertaining as usual. Only one exception, Bizzarefurhead is a little frightening, I didn't know he was into fashion, LOL! He is definitly the funny part of the video, LOL!
pskittle488 2 months ago
@uxwbill thank you ;)
Bignacho25 2 months ago
Im in no way knocking your diagnosis as it was clearly correct (signs now work) but why would bad caps work only with a square/er wave output ?
madmaxz1010 2 months ago
@madmaxz1010 That is an extremely good question, one that I'm not sure I have an answer to. I could only guess that high ripple could have been making the controller IC operate incorrectly, but I'm not sure enough of my ground to be certain of that.
As soon as line power came back, the sign would shut down again.
uxwbill 2 months ago
Great video, great explanation.
RetroPCDOS 2 months ago
@thewhiskey2strokeUSA Get a camera and do it better already.
uxwbill 2 months ago 2
A dim-bulb adapter, bulb in series with incoming power, can be helpful in safely locating short circuits.
imfree707 2 months ago
@imfree707 Yep. I've got one and use it regularly.
uxwbill 2 months ago
thewhiskey2strokeUSA, Generator output is NOT a smooth, stable power ban, it peaks and falls sharply. You are probably thinking of a generator with a built in inverter, like a Honda EU2000i, they put out computer grade power.
onan75 2 months ago
@onan75 I really doubt they are thinking at all.
uxwbill 2 months ago
@onan75 not if you get a good branded one, or if you run it through a back up 120/240 power inverter, tesla500 has one that puts a much cleaner sine wave than his outlet, generators aren't all that bad, sometimes your wall outlet can be a lot worse
joeyf504327 2 months ago
Bignacho25, you discharge a capacitor by grounding it. Depending on what the capacitor is for I usually use a screwdriver with an INSULATED handle to cross it out to ground.
onan75 2 months ago
I have a question for you: How you can discharge a capacitor ?
Bignacho25 2 months ago
@Bignacho25 The right way would be to use an appropriate resistor attached to a well insulated object. Touch the resistor leads to the capacitor for a minute or so. A voltmeter should be used in conjunction with the resistor to verify that the capacitor is discharging. To prevent any possible recovery of charge, the capacitor leads should then be shorted with a jumper. Remove the jumper when done.
There are calculations to exactly determine resistor value and time to discharge.
uxwbill 2 months ago
It's funny you mention getting electrocuted. dug a neon sign out of the garbage once, tried fixing it and ended up getting a twinkle in my eye.
XeonProductions 2 months ago
Interesting! I've learned the hard way of bypassing blown fusing w/ jumpers and foil.
DaAnalogDogg86 2 months ago
Try a telephone ring signal to improve your dancing, 90v peak to peak at 20Hz will make you dance real good, learned that when I was 4 years old, but I can't dance either.
khroe 2 months ago in playlist Kitchen Table Electronics Repair
Smashing vid bill :-)
Ive never seen one of those, but when you showed the psu i reacted the same as you did, oow its a smp with a lopt nailed to the end :-)
i would use a small knife and scrape the black off the tube wires and the black thats on the glass bit as i think the paint may be conducting between the wires.
You do find some interesting bits bill :-)
zx8401ztv 2 months ago
nice video! I love working with electronics, particularly audio related equipment. However, due to having a visual impairment, testing things with the covers off is even more unsafe than usual; I generally put a cover next to the power supply system before I test.
ashleycox432 2 months ago
Excellent component identifications and explanations...Thanks.
greg357159 2 months ago
I have the very same neon sine on my liveing room wall but it says BUD ICE and was also made in the USA and on the power supply it states it can run from 120-240 volt ive had no problems with mine but i have to say i don't use it that much. Thay realy should of used a proper iron core transformer i think, i hate electronic crap like thay put in things theese days eg floresent light ballasts, switchmode power supplys ect... it just wont last!! Great video. Phil.
flipflop595 2 months ago
Once, when I was much younger, I had an old Sony receiver that kept blowing fuses, and finally, one day, it just blew the fuse every time you turned it on. Since it was so old and not really of much use anymore anyway, I just decided to hard wire the fuse connection with a piece of copper wire, just to see what would happen. Lots of smoke and crackling is what happened, lol. Still, at least I was safe about it, and did it outside, and with as much protection to myself as possible.
DJDeCiBeL01 2 months ago
@DJDeCiBeL01 I did exactly that w/ a VCR and KABOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!
DaAnalogDogg86 2 months ago
The main reason I never became a full-fledged radio engineer was because I was just too chicken to put my hand in a transmitter that had 50,000 volts in it... I also will not touch old CRT TV's for the same reason. :) JC
BadEditPro 2 months ago
Well said, Bill. Some people don't take proper steps to be safe with electronic stuff. I'm very nervous when I open up a power supply to clean it (Even after letting it sit for a few days unplugged). Electricity is fun, but VERY UNFORGIVING!
dana44s 2 months ago