@nick97549 " molicules, oxcegen, sut up"?????? Shouldnt that be Molecules, Oxygen, Set up? An illiterate engineer now thats something you dont see everyday. If you have done this experiment you would know the gas was not H2 and O2 as such a gas exposed to an ignition source would cause an explosion. It would not require air (Oxygen) from outside the container to ignite as this gas does. It would be impossible for such a gas to be generated by plasma as it would also be ignited by the plasma.
@nick97549 So you try to make a elecrolysis unit that produces a glowing white light under the water / electrolyte.
This is obviously NOT plain electrolysis, which consists of two plates immersed in water with an electrolyte to which you apply a voltage. Electrolysis cells DO NOT GLOW with a white hot light, if you cant see the difference the you Sir are a moron!
It looks like the electrolysis of water, to produce hydrogen gas. You can't run car on that. You'll put more energy into generating hydrogen gas, than you'd get from burning it.
read previous comments below. It is about generating a fuel gas from water and waste products using a plasma arc. It is proven that a relatively unmodified car engine can run off this synthetic gas.
The gas contains both carbon monoxide and Hydrogen.
Yes Electric cars are more efficient than normal electroysis, but the point here is that plasma can break nearly anything down into its basic components even water, so therefore using plasma we can break down cheap or free waste products and use them to power a motor vehicle instead of incinerating them or making more rotting landfill,solving 2 problems. Water is just there to give a hydrogen boost look up "steam reformation of hydrocarbons".
Plasma is formed by an arc between two carbon rods. Power is supplied by two car batteries in series 24v. When plasma is stable it draws about 14Amps 336 Watts,for 1.2 litres of fuel gas per minute. Gas supplied at about 4 to 1 air to gas can run an engine but obviously the volume cannot be generated on board. Using this plasma to cause pyrolysis of waste organic materials can heat your house and water at the same time as generating the gas to run your car. Very efficient heating solution.
Plasma allows a chemical reaction between the materials present in the water/electrodes etc. Normal electrolysis doesnt reach a temperature sufficient for this type of reaction. Plasma will allow the oxygen in the water to react with the carbon in the electrodes so that the gas is safe to store as it has no available oxygen and wont ingnite until in contact with air. Plasma can allow other materials that oxidise ie: Aluminium, Iron, etc to react with water and give greater Hydrogen yield.
Water makes the gas. I dont understand the question. You can have a plasma arc through gas this is what happens in Neon,flourescent lamps. Also Sodium and Mercury Vapour lamps (Street lights). This is a far more energy efficient way to produce light but is not a reaction producing a flamable or explosive gas.
Liked the video. As gasoline is basically a compound of hydrogen, oxygen and carbon, maybe the carbon electrodes are converting the HHO to a hydrocarbon fuel?
Ultimately though to match the energy density of gasoline means you're going to have to make 10,000 cubic feet of hydrogen which will take 12,062.183 ampere-hours of electricity to make!!
Have a look in any chemistry book under electrochemical equivalency.
Yes but this is just the first step of my inteneded process. The carbon combining with the oxygen in H2O makes process more efficient so less power is needed from batteries. Thank for your comment.
Yes exactly right with normal electrolysis, but if we add in the chemical reaction between Carbon and Oxygen in H2O the reaction becomes far more efficient. If we can use other chemical reactions this can be a viable replacement for gasoline. The process doesnt have to be more efficient just cheaper, with the use of energy from cheap scrap materials. The energy in materials commonly sent to landfill from each household each year is more than enough to run the average family car for the year.
Hi, I like your videos, I myself have been tinkering with this idea for many years. Though I don't quite do it in a Cell form rather a processor designed to capture those little buggers and compress them for future use.
Are you from NZ? I know a Chris. feel free to take a look at a few of my videos for your consumption.
Im not from New Zealand, Im from Australia and there are a few of us Chris's down here Lol. I have been checking out your videos there way cool. I see you also get hassled by the ney sayers too. I tinkered with storing the gas but started out with the idea of an on demand set up recovering the heat from exhaust of the running engine to booste production. Ill email you (not enough room to chat here and I would like to get your opinion on some ideas.
seperating h 2o is like 2 magnets, it takes as much energy to get them apart as you get when they jump back together. have you ever heard your belt squeal when you turned the lights on. you could run a car on the energy it takes to make that arc. you couldn't get a good reading light out of the h your producing
OK, This a totally different process than conventional electrolysis.I am using Carbon to bond with the oxygen(from H2O).The carbon bonding with the oxygen gives off a large amount of heat and light and makes the process far more efficient.The Carbon is consumed slowly in the process.Think of it as chemically assisted electrolysis,Carbon is cheap and plentiful and Carbon can be scrubbed from the gas by bubbleing it through a Sodium Hydroxide solution to make the gas more volitile if required.
"Couldnt get a good reading light"!Check my other videos particularly
"Car plasma injection system"
Looks like more gas than is required to "read a book".
Please dont assume you know it all. I have done electronic engineering and I know how to design and build devices that can do things you wouldnt believe and I can do this too, it is just a matter of getting it stable enough for practical use.
I think he means you don't need a carbon arc to seperate the h 2o. it can be done for much less energy. still tho you only save h using as much e as you get in h. solar panels tho could save enough while your not driving to power you when you do.
You could NEVER produce enougn H to run an engine from the output of the alternator alone. But if you can use the power from the alternator to regulate a chemical reaction that produces a Hydrocarbon gas on demand. This is my goal, all I have to do is find the right elements to put into the plasma once the Carbon arc is established. The materials used have to be abundant and cheap so they dont become as expensive as gasoline, There are numerous compounds that fit this criteria.
Hey Chris I was just wondering is all the HHO gas burnt up in these plasma experiments? Or is more HHO gas given off by creating the plasma? I dont really understand what you can do with the plasma . I thought water splitting was to obtain HHO gas for an IC engine...can you explain?
With a plasma reaction you need an oxidising agent (in this case carbon) as the electrodes. Why? Because plasma is hot enough to reignite the HHO gas as it is seperated, but if you have something for the Oxygen from the H2O to bond with it robs the Hydrogen of the oxygen it needs to ignite.
This is why the gas produced cannot ignite until it has outside air to give it the Oxygen required. I am now experimenting with other electrode materials, many are more promising.
Overcomplicating? I am trying to find the best production rate (method) to boost or maybe one day replace the gasoline I use in my vehicle. Look at production rates in this video and then in my newer videos and you will see 100 times the production. This gas when mixed with air 3 to 1 air to gas ratio is proven to be able to run an internal combustion engine without modification to the engine.
facinating project ... so in your desingn, you consider the carbon electrodes to be consumables and take advantage of what I had considered to be a disadvantage ... I many have to rethink plans I had on the board ... I was leaning toward tungstun ... you will win not awards for photo journalism but I admire your work ...
Thanks:) Yes The carbon is consumed in process but carbon electrodes are cheap and available at any welding shop.The carbon does two things. It turns the Oxygen into carbon monoxide so gas wont burn without air.When reacting with oxygen carbon adds a lot of heat to the plasma reaction making it far more efficient.See volumes on latest cell. One of the previous tests produced so much gas it blew the lid off the cell and cracked it. As always when something spectacular happens I wasnt filming.
Yeah your right. There is something other than Oxygen and Hydrogen being given off though. It seems to give off Carbon Monoxide and maybe Hydrogen, but the hydrogen seems to burn blue and slower so I think it is some kind of Hydrocarbon. Proof that the Oxygen has become carbon monoxide is the fact that this gas will not ignite without outside air see ignition tests. Yes I have tried KOH and spark plug method, But I want to produce a gas that is safe to store and burns more slowly like LPG does.
i hate to tell you this but if you have true fusion the gas coming off will be helium or somthing else i do belive the compound the electrodes are made out of may play a part in what is returned but unless somthin other than oxygen and hydrogen is being produced tiz not fusion keep up the good work though by the way look for the spark plug fusion method with tinkering there may be somthing in it
i may have spoke too soon, but after furthar research i've come to the conclusion that what they are refering to is simple corrosion factors like rust. and that in the use internally in a motor, not only would the thin film of oil protect the cylinder walls, but you could fuerthar protect your engine with a treatment of slick 50 teflon treatment. but personally feel the engine itself is safe. especially considering its exposed to hydrogen constantly thru the cooling system
I have little first hand experience with this (Only a distroyed lawn mower with cracked valves) Not sure of cause so I went looking for explination. This is what I found, Very little oil reaches the valves and seats maybe this is the problem maybe not. But this is not rust, Rust is oxidisation, this is cracking of the metal itself. Maybe aditives can fix this
heck i was able to idle my boat into dock by making a hydrogen generator out of onboard supplies. i used a water cooler, some copper wire, battery acid and lake water with a vent tube to feed the engine. all hooked into the battery got us home safely. there's nothing a roll of duct tape and a sense of humour cant accomplish
(cont) so if i'm reading correctly, your correct about my storage container being affected. but as far as the engine goes, the high temperatures will protect the motor from deteriating affects of hydrogen. which sends me to search for a more suitable container like carbon fibor. i like to take pride in being able to utilise what i have readily available and not be limited or restricted for not having something. it may not be the best, but i can make most things work.
Yes the pressure in the storage container and possible sudden failure was my main concern. You can alway buy a new motor, but driving a vehicle with a ticking bomb on board is more of a concern. Carbon fibre would be a great idea if it could stand up to the heat and pressure of reaction. As I said before I have little knowledge of gas storage cylinders etc. Keep working through the problems and with such a inventive mind you will get there.
ok you need to go back and reread what you told me to read about hydrogen. clipped from the encyclopedia. "If the metal has not yet started to crack, the condition can be reversed by removing the hydrogen source and causing the hydrogen within the metal to diffuse out - possibly at elevated temperatures. Susceptible alloys, after chemical or electrochemical treatments where hydrogen is produced, are often subjected to heat treatment in order to remove absorbed hydrogen."
It would be better to mix HHO with fogged or misted water as that would cool down the combustion and increase expansion as water mist became water vapour. This cell does not produce HHO it produces Hydrocarbons and Carbon Monoxide.This mix has no oxygen in it so it is safe to store and must be mixed with air to burn.Burn rate is close to that of LPG and can be varied by limiting exposure to air. See my latest video " Gas Implosion Warning this video sux Ignition test 3 " for burn test.
you say there is no oxygen but that is an untrue statement. what is true is there is carbon mixed with the hho. my only concern with this methiod is when the water level drops down to the level of your electrodes. what will hapen if a spark becomes airborne? i still think if you stand away from the carbon electrodes. and eliminate the co2. you would be better off. its making your mixture safer but without a way to seperate them to make it useable. good work your a pioneer
Your right,There is oxygen but it is rendered innert by its bond with the carbon from the electrodes. This is caused by the high temp plasma reaction, it is not normal electrolysis. My goal here is to make a gas that is safe to store and burns at a suitable rate to be used in a unmodified petrol engine. This gas will not burn until the gas is exposed to air. See burn test with slightly imploded coke bottle. I will post some other tests I have done to prove this soon.
well i dissagree with your statement you made. this is from my own personal experiments. now this may not hold true with newer cars due to the computer controlled variables. but with older vehicals the hho gas is ten times better then any fossel fuel available. anytime you can get the opertunity to fire an engine at tdc you should do so. and fossel fuels dont allow this to happen. you want the quickest burning fuel you can run. gas cars are only 25% of the gas is used to move
Yes I agree but I am trying to make a gas that can be made on demand and work in an unmodified engine to either suppliment or hopefully replace the gasoline.
HHO gas ignites too fast and causes engine knock which will ware engine too fast, Also I suggest you look up "Hydrogen embrittlement" as hardened surfaces like valves and seats become damaged when directly exposed to Hydrogen. The carbon forms temporary bonds with Hydrogen (Hydrocarbon bonding) which makes the molicule to large to enter the metals lattice structure so it cannot cause embrittlement and damage to metal.
now this is new to me. i will look into this. the long term effect is where i fall short. now the pre detination could be avoided very easily with a timing change to tdc. which would prolong the life of the engine. but if what your saying about Hydrogen embrittlement is true and can be proven. then i definatly need to reavaluate things. "i'll get back to you on that one". its definatly a draw back to alot of things.
If steel is exposed to hydrogen at high temperatures, hydrogen will diffuse into the alloy and combine with carbon to form tiny pockets of methane at internal surfaces like grain boundaries and voids. This methane does not diffuse out of the metal, and collects in the voids at high pressure and initiates cracks in the steel. This process is known as hydrogen attack and leads to decarburization of the steel and loss of strength.
Sorry to be so negative and discouraging, but Hydrogen wants to bond with Carbon, If it cant get it elseware it will rip it from the steel itself. Hardened steel has to have high levels of carbon to make its molicules bond more closely. Take the carbon away and the steel falls apart. There seems to be no way to get rid of CO2 emissions, but if you use aluminium you are also generating CO2 as it takes hugh amounts of electricity to make and this power mostly comes from coal fired generators.
i agree but i used recycled aluminum, so i'm just using whats already going back to the remelt so in fact i'm creating less emissions on that point of veiw. and negativity in my eyes is usually a posative note of learning. so please keep the negatives coming its appreciated more then you know. i dont get offended very easily unless someone has a close minded veiw with no explenations (my ol lady). but you have explained everything you have stated. exellent, dont stop.
I have made modifications to cell and it produces 390ml in 30 seconds. I fed the gas of this slower producing unit into the intake of the carbie. it idled slightly faster but I need to mod intake manifold to allow more air at intake to mix with gas.
There is no electrolyte in this set up. I put the cell on the scope and found that it is useing less power than calculated as current is only flowing 72% of the time. Calculated power in 24V x 4.5A = 108W Should be 108W x 0.72= 77.76 Watts average for 390Ml in 4min 36sec. Not great production but a better drive circuit should give far better production.
Yes you are right. The arc is being broken every few seconds because the solinoid in series with the electrode continues to seperate electrodes until the current flow drops to zero.I am going to set up some sort of a feedback circuit so electrodes seperate until a predetermined current flow is reached and arc is maintained at that current by varying the electrode gap. Not sure how to do that yet.
I am thinking a circuit with an LDR. (light dependant resister) will pick up when initial arc begins and a circuit to allow most of the current to bypass the solinoid so it only has enough power to maintain gap and not enough to keep seperating electrodes. A stepper motor circuit sounds quite involved and I like to keep it simple(until I at least know if system is viable anyway.)
Arcing through the gas produced then injecting water through arc seems to be much more efficient, as shown in previous video.But doing it that way is far more dangerous because if any air gets into the reaction area it explodes. The reaction MUST occur without any free oxygen so that ignition of gases cannot occur inside device. This device is more robust and stable.
you are not doing anything dude
You are wasting your time, and all over again. same thing same thing. WILL NOT WORK ANYWAY
denisprodesign 6 months ago
@denisprodesign It's good ay!
ChrisPCrunchy 6 months ago
@nick97549 " molicules, oxcegen, sut up"?????? Shouldnt that be Molecules, Oxygen, Set up? An illiterate engineer now thats something you dont see everyday. If you have done this experiment you would know the gas was not H2 and O2 as such a gas exposed to an ignition source would cause an explosion. It would not require air (Oxygen) from outside the container to ignite as this gas does. It would be impossible for such a gas to be generated by plasma as it would also be ignited by the plasma.
ChrisPCrunchy 7 months ago
@nick97549 So you try to make a elecrolysis unit that produces a glowing white light under the water / electrolyte.
This is obviously NOT plain electrolysis, which consists of two plates immersed in water with an electrolyte to which you apply a voltage. Electrolysis cells DO NOT GLOW with a white hot light, if you cant see the difference the you Sir are a moron!
ChrisPCrunchy 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
It looks like the electrolysis of water, to produce hydrogen gas. You can't run car on that. You'll put more energy into generating hydrogen gas, than you'd get from burning it.
241Groundhog 1 year ago
Comment removed
241Groundhog 1 year ago
What is this exactly about?
Can you explain in details?
Desmonddd2002 2 years ago
read previous comments below. It is about generating a fuel gas from water and waste products using a plasma arc. It is proven that a relatively unmodified car engine can run off this synthetic gas.
ChrisPCrunchy 2 years ago
are you just producing hydrogen gas?
241Groundhog 3 years ago
No it is a Hydrocarbon gas more similar to gasoline / LPG.
ChrisPCrunchy 2 years ago
@ChrisPCrunchy Isn't HydroCarbon more poisonous to the atmosphere? Anyways. Coolies You made something awesome :3
arshdeep125 1 year ago
@241Groundhog it would be pretty explosive and pretty scary if it was hydrogen gas O.O
oneandahalfasians 1 year ago
Comment removed
241Groundhog 3 years ago
The gas contains both carbon monoxide and Hydrogen.
Yes Electric cars are more efficient than normal electroysis, but the point here is that plasma can break nearly anything down into its basic components even water, so therefore using plasma we can break down cheap or free waste products and use them to power a motor vehicle instead of incinerating them or making more rotting landfill,solving 2 problems. Water is just there to give a hydrogen boost look up "steam reformation of hydrocarbons".
ChrisPCrunchy 3 years ago
But how do you generate plasma? you need another phenomenal amount of electricity to make plasma, right?
Desmonddd2002 2 years ago
Plasma is formed by an arc between two carbon rods. Power is supplied by two car batteries in series 24v. When plasma is stable it draws about 14Amps 336 Watts,for 1.2 litres of fuel gas per minute. Gas supplied at about 4 to 1 air to gas can run an engine but obviously the volume cannot be generated on board. Using this plasma to cause pyrolysis of waste organic materials can heat your house and water at the same time as generating the gas to run your car. Very efficient heating solution.
ChrisPCrunchy 2 years ago
Is there anyone that makes a kit to install on a vehicle, or does almost every kit have to be custom built?
Douglascs83 3 years ago
What are some of the Pros/Cons of plasma vs. the plate systems?
Douglascs83 3 years ago
Plasma allows a chemical reaction between the materials present in the water/electrodes etc. Normal electrolysis doesnt reach a temperature sufficient for this type of reaction. Plasma will allow the oxygen in the water to react with the carbon in the electrodes so that the gas is safe to store as it has no available oxygen and wont ingnite until in contact with air. Plasma can allow other materials that oxidise ie: Aluminium, Iron, etc to react with water and give greater Hydrogen yield.
ChrisPCrunchy 3 years ago
wat if u use gas instead of water, ?
argosy2006 3 years ago
Water makes the gas. I dont understand the question. You can have a plasma arc through gas this is what happens in Neon,flourescent lamps. Also Sodium and Mercury Vapour lamps (Street lights). This is a far more energy efficient way to produce light but is not a reaction producing a flamable or explosive gas.
ChrisPCrunchy 3 years ago
Liked the video. As gasoline is basically a compound of hydrogen, oxygen and carbon, maybe the carbon electrodes are converting the HHO to a hydrocarbon fuel?
Ultimately though to match the energy density of gasoline means you're going to have to make 10,000 cubic feet of hydrogen which will take 12,062.183 ampere-hours of electricity to make!!
Have a look in any chemistry book under electrochemical equivalency.
TK42138 3 years ago
Yes but this is just the first step of my inteneded process. The carbon combining with the oxygen in H2O makes process more efficient so less power is needed from batteries. Thank for your comment.
ChrisPCrunchy 3 years ago
Yes exactly right with normal electrolysis, but if we add in the chemical reaction between Carbon and Oxygen in H2O the reaction becomes far more efficient. If we can use other chemical reactions this can be a viable replacement for gasoline. The process doesnt have to be more efficient just cheaper, with the use of energy from cheap scrap materials. The energy in materials commonly sent to landfill from each household each year is more than enough to run the average family car for the year.
ChrisPCrunchy 3 years ago
Hi, I like your videos, I myself have been tinkering with this idea for many years. Though I don't quite do it in a Cell form rather a processor designed to capture those little buggers and compress them for future use.
Are you from NZ? I know a Chris. feel free to take a look at a few of my videos for your consumption.
Nice set up btw.
AidenBrinnian 3 years ago
Hi Aiden.
Nice set up you have there.
Im not from New Zealand, Im from Australia and there are a few of us Chris's down here Lol. I have been checking out your videos there way cool. I see you also get hassled by the ney sayers too. I tinkered with storing the gas but started out with the idea of an on demand set up recovering the heat from exhaust of the running engine to booste production. Ill email you (not enough room to chat here and I would like to get your opinion on some ideas.
ChrisPCrunchy 3 years ago
seperating h 2o is like 2 magnets, it takes as much energy to get them apart as you get when they jump back together. have you ever heard your belt squeal when you turned the lights on. you could run a car on the energy it takes to make that arc. you couldn't get a good reading light out of the h your producing
GrandGuignologist 3 years ago
OK, This a totally different process than conventional electrolysis.I am using Carbon to bond with the oxygen(from H2O).The carbon bonding with the oxygen gives off a large amount of heat and light and makes the process far more efficient.The Carbon is consumed slowly in the process.Think of it as chemically assisted electrolysis,Carbon is cheap and plentiful and Carbon can be scrubbed from the gas by bubbleing it through a Sodium Hydroxide solution to make the gas more volitile if required.
ChrisPCrunchy 3 years ago
"Couldnt get a good reading light"!Check my other videos particularly
"Car plasma injection system"
Looks like more gas than is required to "read a book".
Please dont assume you know it all. I have done electronic engineering and I know how to design and build devices that can do things you wouldnt believe and I can do this too, it is just a matter of getting it stable enough for practical use.
ChrisPCrunchy 3 years ago
I think he means you don't need a carbon arc to seperate the h 2o. it can be done for much less energy. still tho you only save h using as much e as you get in h. solar panels tho could save enough while your not driving to power you when you do.
GrandGuignologist 3 years ago
You could NEVER produce enougn H to run an engine from the output of the alternator alone. But if you can use the power from the alternator to regulate a chemical reaction that produces a Hydrocarbon gas on demand. This is my goal, all I have to do is find the right elements to put into the plasma once the Carbon arc is established. The materials used have to be abundant and cheap so they dont become as expensive as gasoline, There are numerous compounds that fit this criteria.
ChrisPCrunchy 3 years ago
Hey Chris I was just wondering is all the HHO gas burnt up in these plasma experiments? Or is more HHO gas given off by creating the plasma? I dont really understand what you can do with the plasma . I thought water splitting was to obtain HHO gas for an IC engine...can you explain?
dmgcat 3 years ago
Hi.
With a plasma reaction you need an oxidising agent (in this case carbon) as the electrodes. Why? Because plasma is hot enough to reignite the HHO gas as it is seperated, but if you have something for the Oxygen from the H2O to bond with it robs the Hydrogen of the oxygen it needs to ignite.
This is why the gas produced cannot ignite until it has outside air to give it the Oxygen required. I am now experimenting with other electrode materials, many are more promising.
ChrisPCrunchy 3 years ago
why are you overcomplicating a very simple idea? I don't understand what you are trying to achieve? please explain ...thanks
blahvidblah 3 years ago
Overcomplicating? I am trying to find the best production rate (method) to boost or maybe one day replace the gasoline I use in my vehicle. Look at production rates in this video and then in my newer videos and you will see 100 times the production. This gas when mixed with air 3 to 1 air to gas ratio is proven to be able to run an internal combustion engine without modification to the engine.
What are you tryng to achieve? Please explain?
ChrisPCrunchy 3 years ago
cool!!!
luvgingy 3 years ago
cool!!!
luvgingy 3 years ago
facinating project ... so in your desingn, you consider the carbon electrodes to be consumables and take advantage of what I had considered to be a disadvantage ... I many have to rethink plans I had on the board ... I was leaning toward tungstun ... you will win not awards for photo journalism but I admire your work ...
SmartScarecrow 4 years ago
Thanks:) Yes The carbon is consumed in process but carbon electrodes are cheap and available at any welding shop.The carbon does two things. It turns the Oxygen into carbon monoxide so gas wont burn without air.When reacting with oxygen carbon adds a lot of heat to the plasma reaction making it far more efficient.See volumes on latest cell. One of the previous tests produced so much gas it blew the lid off the cell and cracked it. As always when something spectacular happens I wasnt filming.
ChrisPCrunchy 4 years ago
Yeah your right. There is something other than Oxygen and Hydrogen being given off though. It seems to give off Carbon Monoxide and maybe Hydrogen, but the hydrogen seems to burn blue and slower so I think it is some kind of Hydrocarbon. Proof that the Oxygen has become carbon monoxide is the fact that this gas will not ignite without outside air see ignition tests. Yes I have tried KOH and spark plug method, But I want to produce a gas that is safe to store and burns more slowly like LPG does.
ChrisPCrunchy 4 years ago
i hate to tell you this but if you have true fusion the gas coming off will be helium or somthing else i do belive the compound the electrodes are made out of may play a part in what is returned but unless somthin other than oxygen and hydrogen is being produced tiz not fusion keep up the good work though by the way look for the spark plug fusion method with tinkering there may be somthing in it
sickpigrecords 4 years ago
i may have spoke too soon, but after furthar research i've come to the conclusion that what they are refering to is simple corrosion factors like rust. and that in the use internally in a motor, not only would the thin film of oil protect the cylinder walls, but you could fuerthar protect your engine with a treatment of slick 50 teflon treatment. but personally feel the engine itself is safe. especially considering its exposed to hydrogen constantly thru the cooling system
powerzap69 4 years ago
I have little first hand experience with this (Only a distroyed lawn mower with cracked valves) Not sure of cause so I went looking for explination. This is what I found, Very little oil reaches the valves and seats maybe this is the problem maybe not. But this is not rust, Rust is oxidisation, this is cracking of the metal itself. Maybe aditives can fix this
ChrisPCrunchy 4 years ago
heck i was able to idle my boat into dock by making a hydrogen generator out of onboard supplies. i used a water cooler, some copper wire, battery acid and lake water with a vent tube to feed the engine. all hooked into the battery got us home safely. there's nothing a roll of duct tape and a sense of humour cant accomplish
powerzap69 4 years ago
You sound like McGuiver. Can make a Jumbo Jet out of chewing gum and wire LOL.
ChrisPCrunchy 4 years ago
(cont) so if i'm reading correctly, your correct about my storage container being affected. but as far as the engine goes, the high temperatures will protect the motor from deteriating affects of hydrogen. which sends me to search for a more suitable container like carbon fibor. i like to take pride in being able to utilise what i have readily available and not be limited or restricted for not having something. it may not be the best, but i can make most things work.
powerzap69 4 years ago
Yes the pressure in the storage container and possible sudden failure was my main concern. You can alway buy a new motor, but driving a vehicle with a ticking bomb on board is more of a concern. Carbon fibre would be a great idea if it could stand up to the heat and pressure of reaction. As I said before I have little knowledge of gas storage cylinders etc. Keep working through the problems and with such a inventive mind you will get there.
ChrisPCrunchy 4 years ago
ok you need to go back and reread what you told me to read about hydrogen. clipped from the encyclopedia. "If the metal has not yet started to crack, the condition can be reversed by removing the hydrogen source and causing the hydrogen within the metal to diffuse out - possibly at elevated temperatures. Susceptible alloys, after chemical or electrochemical treatments where hydrogen is produced, are often subjected to heat treatment in order to remove absorbed hydrogen."
powerzap69 4 years ago
have you tried mixing hho with non combustible gas?
stanley meyer added more air into fuelcell to slow down the burn rate of hho.
this is must needed to run car with hho.
dreamyear 4 years ago
Hi.
It would be better to mix HHO with fogged or misted water as that would cool down the combustion and increase expansion as water mist became water vapour. This cell does not produce HHO it produces Hydrocarbons and Carbon Monoxide.This mix has no oxygen in it so it is safe to store and must be mixed with air to burn.Burn rate is close to that of LPG and can be varied by limiting exposure to air. See my latest video " Gas Implosion Warning this video sux Ignition test 3 " for burn test.
ChrisPCrunchy 4 years ago
you say there is no oxygen but that is an untrue statement. what is true is there is carbon mixed with the hho. my only concern with this methiod is when the water level drops down to the level of your electrodes. what will hapen if a spark becomes airborne? i still think if you stand away from the carbon electrodes. and eliminate the co2. you would be better off. its making your mixture safer but without a way to seperate them to make it useable. good work your a pioneer
powerzap69 4 years ago
Your right,There is oxygen but it is rendered innert by its bond with the carbon from the electrodes. This is caused by the high temp plasma reaction, it is not normal electrolysis. My goal here is to make a gas that is safe to store and burns at a suitable rate to be used in a unmodified petrol engine. This gas will not burn until the gas is exposed to air. See burn test with slightly imploded coke bottle. I will post some other tests I have done to prove this soon.
ChrisPCrunchy 4 years ago
well i dissagree with your statement you made. this is from my own personal experiments. now this may not hold true with newer cars due to the computer controlled variables. but with older vehicals the hho gas is ten times better then any fossel fuel available. anytime you can get the opertunity to fire an engine at tdc you should do so. and fossel fuels dont allow this to happen. you want the quickest burning fuel you can run. gas cars are only 25% of the gas is used to move
powerzap69 4 years ago
Yes I agree but I am trying to make a gas that can be made on demand and work in an unmodified engine to either suppliment or hopefully replace the gasoline.
ChrisPCrunchy 4 years ago
i see that, but isn't the whole point to be able to alter your timing to top dead center so the engine doesn't have to work so hard?
powerzap69 4 years ago
HHO gas ignites too fast and causes engine knock which will ware engine too fast, Also I suggest you look up "Hydrogen embrittlement" as hardened surfaces like valves and seats become damaged when directly exposed to Hydrogen. The carbon forms temporary bonds with Hydrogen (Hydrocarbon bonding) which makes the molicule to large to enter the metals lattice structure so it cannot cause embrittlement and damage to metal.
ChrisPCrunchy 4 years ago
now this is new to me. i will look into this. the long term effect is where i fall short. now the pre detination could be avoided very easily with a timing change to tdc. which would prolong the life of the engine. but if what your saying about Hydrogen embrittlement is true and can be proven. then i definatly need to reavaluate things. "i'll get back to you on that one". its definatly a draw back to alot of things.
powerzap69 4 years ago
Look up "Hydrogen Embrittlement" in wikipedia:
Hydrogen attack
If steel is exposed to hydrogen at high temperatures, hydrogen will diffuse into the alloy and combine with carbon to form tiny pockets of methane at internal surfaces like grain boundaries and voids. This methane does not diffuse out of the metal, and collects in the voids at high pressure and initiates cracks in the steel. This process is known as hydrogen attack and leads to decarburization of the steel and loss of strength.
ChrisPCrunchy 4 years ago
reading it now
powerzap69 4 years ago
Sorry to be so negative and discouraging, but Hydrogen wants to bond with Carbon, If it cant get it elseware it will rip it from the steel itself. Hardened steel has to have high levels of carbon to make its molicules bond more closely. Take the carbon away and the steel falls apart. There seems to be no way to get rid of CO2 emissions, but if you use aluminium you are also generating CO2 as it takes hugh amounts of electricity to make and this power mostly comes from coal fired generators.
ChrisPCrunchy 4 years ago
i agree but i used recycled aluminum, so i'm just using whats already going back to the remelt so in fact i'm creating less emissions on that point of veiw. and negativity in my eyes is usually a posative note of learning. so please keep the negatives coming its appreciated more then you know. i dont get offended very easily unless someone has a close minded veiw with no explenations (my ol lady). but you have explained everything you have stated. exellent, dont stop.
powerzap69 4 years ago
Can you run car on it yet? How does it run?
gingy717 4 years ago
I have made modifications to cell and it produces 390ml in 30 seconds. I fed the gas of this slower producing unit into the intake of the carbie. it idled slightly faster but I need to mod intake manifold to allow more air at intake to mix with gas.
ChrisPCrunchy 4 years ago
i have something that may help that to happen. an electric turbo controlled by a potetiometer from the gas pedel
powerzap69 4 years ago
There is no electrolyte in this set up. I put the cell on the scope and found that it is useing less power than calculated as current is only flowing 72% of the time. Calculated power in 24V x 4.5A = 108W Should be 108W x 0.72= 77.76 Watts average for 390Ml in 4min 36sec. Not great production but a better drive circuit should give far better production.
ChrisPCrunchy 4 years ago
Hi Chris
your geting there, good video.
I am somewhat supprised the arc is not more
stable or is this just at startup and ifso
does it smooth out after you have run it for
a while, did I understand that you have no electrolite in it?
Thanks
HT
MYTOWER 4 years ago
Yes you are right. The arc is being broken every few seconds because the solinoid in series with the electrode continues to seperate electrodes until the current flow drops to zero.I am going to set up some sort of a feedback circuit so electrodes seperate until a predetermined current flow is reached and arc is maintained at that current by varying the electrode gap. Not sure how to do that yet.
ChrisPCrunchy 4 years ago
Hi Chris
I was trying to find some kind of stepper motor and circut to not only maintain a good
currant flow but to close gap to start the arc
then back off to a adjustable currant, and that is where i kinda left of and put it on the back burner, but mostly because of the
OCAL magnetic motor that shows a lot of promise, but after this motor i plan to get back to the carbon arc project. sorry i cant be more help now
thanks
HT
MYTOWER 4 years ago
I am thinking a circuit with an LDR. (light dependant resister) will pick up when initial arc begins and a circuit to allow most of the current to bypass the solinoid so it only has enough power to maintain gap and not enough to keep seperating electrodes. A stepper motor circuit sounds quite involved and I like to keep it simple(until I at least know if system is viable anyway.)
ChrisPCrunchy 4 years ago
very good video..but your previous work of plasma ignition was more impressive.
dreamyear 4 years ago
Arcing through the gas produced then injecting water through arc seems to be much more efficient, as shown in previous video.But doing it that way is far more dangerous because if any air gets into the reaction area it explodes. The reaction MUST occur without any free oxygen so that ignition of gases cannot occur inside device. This device is more robust and stable.
ChrisPCrunchy 4 years ago