And ask this question: "why no one is trusting to help you?" Becuase your country is far militerized than what Hitler was and in fact your are not talking about a country! This is not disputed, this is an OCCUPIED land. I believe the world has the knowledge and knowledge is POWER. And finally Imagibe the New England is renamed to CHINA, with a false claim on it. Then "what would the neighbor countries will do?" The land that you are talking about does not have a UN document as a country.
And ask this question: "why no one is trusting to help you?" Becuase your country is far militerized than what Hitler was and in fact your are not talking about a country! This is not disputed, this is an OCCUPIED land. I believe the world has the knowledge and knowledge is POWER. And finally Imagibe the New England is renamed to CHINA, with a false claim on it. Then "what would the neighbor countries will do?" The land that you are talking about does not have a UN document as a country.
Nobody is going to help you achieve peace on your own terms. Concessions have to be made and your opponents need to be treated equally in this matter to tell there side of the story and be given necessary provisions. Fair is fair!
Oh, i forgot something : a very interesting video you made here, good work. As Voltaire said : "I disagree with what you say, but I will fight for your right to say it".
humm...I've read again myself, and that's not quite clear, is'nt it ;) Excuse my english writting, i'm not use to...To make it shorter, here is a question (read it well and think before you aswer) : What system do you prefer between a Democracy that hurts its people (social and economic violence for example) and a Dictatorship truely inhabited by its people content. Freedom is not a goal in itself, and we democrats from western world do not hold the One Truth : such thing does not exist.
A democracy is less likely to hurt its people than a dictatorship. In a dictatorship, all the power resides in the hands of one person and they are likely to oppress their people because their power is unchecked.
Free Syria : from who? the Syrians? And replacing them by colons, maybe?
Free kidnapped soldiers : soldiers die, that's what they're made for (not that i'm pleased with it, just a statement)
One more thing : Stop the colonizations and daily humiliations of a whole people, that will give you the right to fight back on those who wants to kill you.
Well, if we go that way, maybe we should consider our own crooks legally elected, don't you think?
What kind of person am I? Just a person humble enough to consider his values and heritage (the American declaration of independance, the French revolution...) may not apply just like that to other cultures and people.
Here is a difficult thing to hear maybe, but we democrats (i mean people who believe in democracy)are not obviously right, just because we're democrats.
tell that to the millions of palestianins in the west bank still under siege after a year of emargo on food,water, medicin, electricity ...... "yeah You are free" can you fly little birdy.
this video is annoying to me.I'm not anti semetic,but if jews came to my house and told me to leave,then i would do everything in my power to destroy them.they treat palestinians like shit,what do they expect to happen when they take peoples land and homes.
thats the thing, no one ever told them to leave. no one ever kicked anyone out.
the israeli declaration of independence clearly states that every non jewish resident of the area will become a citizen of the country if they choose so. and that promise was kept. every arab in israel is entitled to citizenship through the same guidelines as the jewish people are.
and how will you treat those who blow up in your house, give them milk and cookies?
Nice list. Very creative. Inventive. Who invented Palestine? The Ottomans? Great Britain? WHo invented Israel? The Israelis? The Hebrews? Who was there first? The Hebrews. Who gave the Arabs permission to settle in Israel? The Romans? The caliphs? Neither had the right to steal Israel. So, save your bullshit about ethnic cleansing and segregation. If Israel doesn't keep the Arabs out, it will collapse, just as Lebanon did.
The Bible tells how the Jews killed off the Canaanites (who were in Palestine before the Jews) so that they could take over the land. Now, I don't believe in using the Bible as a guide for future Middle Eastern politics but if the Zionists insist then I will neutralise this stupid argument by using their own tools against them.
I deffinitly agree with you badger, but the neanderthals are currently residing in the midle east area,and you seem to be taking the subject a wee bit to touchy. Listen it all lies in what our govermnts decide to do in the end so rather then blaming the people you should start with the nations that have caused these issues
"it all lies in what our govermnts decide to do in the end"
Surely our governments should not be doing the deciding. If we live in true democracies let the people decide our Middle East policy by referendum i.e. Should there be an international peace-keeping force between Israel and the occupied Palestinian territories?
badger5079, you're stupid for so many reasons. First of all, you are falinf to understand the fact that Isrel is the Jewish land, the RIGHTFUL Jewish land. The so-called non-existing "Palastinians" are not like you, they think otherwise, they hate an entire cizilization, which Israel is its front-line.
You are so full with yourself and spreading the evil lies you have read in the internet. Yearn for my destruction, fair enough, but trust me that after Israel America and Europe are going to fall so hard.
So buzz off my view, jerk, leave the debates to people that actually LIVE the conflict.
"leave the debates to people that actually LIVE the conflict."
Aaaah... another Zionist telling me that his country's never-ending provocation of Palestinians doesn't affect me...or that I have no right to free speech.
BTW ..where did I say that I yearn for your destruction, you paranoid git?
When you decline my right to live in my country, when you say my country does not have the right to exist... you can figure it out be you own, I hope. Israel's population is diverse, I myself have Jewish-Tunisian and Jewish-Germen ancestries.
I am afraid that you are subjective even more then I am, because you blindly supporrt the false "Palestinian" nation, and never attempt to hear and understand what the other side have to say. 6,000,000 Jews were murdered in the sake of hatred, but I am sure you filthy narrow-minded wouldn't care at all.
Stop trying to use the Nazi genocide to justify ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian people. The Palestinians are as real as the Jews. But you are a bigot who wants to steamroller all Arabs because of your hatred. Your attitude is the epitome of everything that is prolonging the conflict.
There is no ethnic cleansing. There are no death camps for Palestinians. Arafat was just as happy to invent a Palestinian nation in Beruit as he was in Jerusalem. The Palestinians choose to live in shit.
So there must be death camps before one can say that ethnic cleansing has occured? I am sure that the people of Bosnia and Rwanda would be confused by your definition....
...Israel was imposed as a Jewish state upon a majority Muslim population and only the subsequen ethnic cleansing could secure Israel from the Palestinian ressitance (plus billions of dollars of U.S. military support) The Zionists choose to deny their Palestinian neighbours the right to have thir own state and so condemn the Israeli people to either eternal war or a repetition of the Final Solution concept - only this time against Palestinians.
There was no Muslim majority in the borders of the Declaration of Israel. And yes, Israel is a JEWISH COUNTRY. There are bloody 26 Arab-Muslim countries, but how many Jewish countries are there? ONE!!! The "Palis" condemnd us! They wanna kill us all, to drive us to the sea, while we offer them lands and independence and they fire missilies at us! ARE YOU FUCKING BLIND?!
There are a lot more Muslims in the world than Jews so it is stupid to argue that Muslims have too many countries compared to the Jews. For your Israel to become a Jewish country many thousands of Palestinians had to be uprooted from their homes and continue to live as refugees or in bantustans in the occupied territories. This is the essence of Zionism.
you are talking a load of crap, the jews didn't kick the palestinians out of israel,they left on there own accord. the ones that stayed were treated as equals to israelis then along came the killers, arafat and his band of thugs breeding hatred and murder. if the palestinians want there own country then they must earn it by stopping all the killing and show that they are worthy to have there own country. Don't blame Israel for all of the problems {fight fire with fire}
Some Palestinians left in 1948 "of their own accord" because they thought that if they stayed in the path of the fighting they might be killed. After the war was over they discovered that Zionist Israel treated them not as refugees who had the right to return to their homes but as a threat to the plan for a majority-Jewish Israel.
Since the Zionist government of Israel's policy is to treat all Palestinians as terrorist suspects and second class human beings, then it is unlikely that the Palestinians would ever be allowed to have their own state if they were to depend upon selfish Zionists to judge them worthy first....
what would you call worthy? somone who sends their kids to blowup innocent people.
palestians had the right to come into israel to work. (can an israeli go into an arab town} no they cant without getting killed. the poverty that they live in has been bought on by themselves. you dont cut off the hand that feeds you. but they hav'nt the sence to see this
...Why should Zionist hypocrites expect that the Palestinians will not fight for their freedom rather than accept what measly parcels of land the land thieves see fit to give back to them? After all, Israel itself would not have been created if it were not fought for...does this violence that was necessary to create the state of Israel mean that Israelis are not "worthy" to have their own country?
they dont have to fight for freedom they can sit down and talk.again israel was not created by war but gived in 1948 by the united nations. the palestinians could have had their own country years ago but they chose violence and hatred over common sense. That is acommon fault with fools
Israel was declared and only then was the hand of the UN forced into recognising Israel. The settlements being offered by the Israelis have become increasingly unacceptable from a Palestinian viewpoint and this is planned by the Zionist regime so that the Palestinians are forced to refuse.
Israel was "earned" by war and killing so why do you expect the Palestinians to behave any better than the Israelis? Arafat is a product of Zionist oppression of the Palestinian society - the lack of freedom imposed by Zionist occupation and oppression allows bottom-feeders like Arafat to gain control. Palestinians have a lot of potential but none if it can come out because they are not free.
I am sorry that I am not willing to give up the land which my nation was driven out 2000 years ago, the land which my nation built from scratch... Or maybe I am not sorry at all. The fact that Israel is the rightful Jewish land is indisputible, but what can I expect from an Anti-Semitic Irish man who sits in his couch, and cry about the oh-so-poor Palis which are being viciously killed during an attempt to kill Israeli civilians?
Do you stand up rather than sit down when you type comments on Youtube or something? If so, does that make you morally superior or something? (I recommend sitting when you type, it just works...)
BTW, playing the Zionist victim card is laughable. ...
A Zionist is somebody who believes that the Palestinians do not have the right to an independent state and who prefers that Israel remain at war than hand back control of the West Bank and East Jerusalem to the Palestinian people...
b)most israelis do belive the palastinians deserve a country (and thats why a left wing party is in control) they just dont think that country should be instead of israel.
c)you talk about giving east jerusalem like its nothing. in your profile it says your from ireland. how would you fell if someone asked you to give half of Dublin. now imagine how much harder it would be if it was holt to your religion.
Israel merely has to obey international law and hand over control of the West Bank and Gaza to the Palestinians with East Jerusalem as the capital of the Palestinian state. This is what international law calls for. Israel stole Palestine from the the indigenous arabs.
aside from the fact that the jews used to live there in the past (and that has been proven by archeological evidence.) the palastinians never had control of the land.
ill explain who ruled in the last 500 years.
first it was the turkes. they treated the palastinians as bad as they trated the jews. then came the british mandate that was made to create a jewish state. from that mandate came israel.
if they never had the country, how could we steal it?
You now have an internationally recognised state with an advanced economy and a powerful military but you choose to keep the Palestinians stateless by changing the ethnic balance of the West Bank using illegal settlements and the apartheid wall. The ongoing enclosure of the hinterland of East Jerusalem by illegal Jewish settlements shows hat the Israeli government is not acting in good faith with the Palestinian aspirations for statehood.
in 48 and again in 2000. both times they declined. they dont want a country, they want israel.
in 48 they were offered 90% of the britsh mandate (80% of it is now jorden. the last 10% was for the palastinian state) and the jews would get 10% (60% of the jewish area is dessert by the way).
you would think 90% of the area was good enogh, but you know what they did in retaliantion to the offer.
Jordan was separated from Palestine in 1922 and was never subject to the Balfour declaration. The Balfour declaration did not apply to the land east of the Jordan. Jordan was never Palestine. Your 90% figure and your numbers in general are easily exposed as a distortion of reality (a distortion commonly used by Zionists who presume that their opponents do not know the facts about Israel). If you are just going to lie then you have lost the argument.
actually the Balfour declaration was in 1918, 4 years before jorden was separated. while the Balfour declaration does not specify the boarders of the new country it was belived at the time that they include Jorden.
so that froves you wrong and all you comment goes down in flames.
and one more thing, why would I need to lie? I got truth and justice on my side.
1. The Balfour Declaration was in November 2nd 1917..please be more careful.
2. You say "the Balfour declaration does not specify the boarders of the new country it was belived at the time that they include Jorden."
Firstly the Balfour Declaration does not talk about a new country at all...it talks about a "national home for the Jewish people" (this could have been a trinational state with power-sharing between Jews, Arabs and Christians) .
The people of the Irish Republic altered the constitution so hat we would relinquish nationalist aspirations to unify the island and free Northern Island from British rule. We did this for peace...we gave up our claim to Northern Ireland. Terrorism thrives upon tacit acceptance/fear by the "civilian" population.
Both Loyalist and Republican communities in Northern Ireland decided to put peace first but REAL sacrifices needed to be made. International law did not demand that we give up our claim to Northern Ireland which the British colonised but we did it for peace. You Israelis might learn from this.
Religion is a mass delusion which is an obstacle to peace as it encourages tribslism and racism.
1) you talk about your brave act but you seem to gorget that we did the same thing. back in 2004 israel removed any ileagel setllments from the gaza strip and left the area entirly.
we basicly got up, kicked civilians of thier homes and them gave thier houses to an enemy of our state. this was a complitly one sided move. you know what we got in return?
even more rockets on our towns.
only now they are shot from the naigborhoods we gave them.
Isreal withdrew from Gaza but builds more illegal settlements in the West Bank which it desires more than Gaza. It is easier to change the ethnic balance of the West Bank with illegal Israeli colonies. This is an attempt to creat realities on the ground so that Israel will be able to claim as much land as possible. Israel's deception is obvious to the Paestinians and the international community.
The people of the Irish Republic recognised the will of the majority of Northern Ireland's citizens to remain a part of the U.K. To attempt to unify the island through force is mere fascism when the majority of people of N.I. are against it.
Why do the Israelis fail to withdraw from all illegally occupied territories for peace? Israel has no claim to any of the occupied territories under international law so withdrawing from Gaza is no sacrifice deserving reward - it is mandatory. Occupation brings terror to both Israelis and Palestinians.
It was not brave of the Irish to agree to amend the constitution to give up the claim to NI for peace. It made sense. The Irish people realised that they were losing so much by the ongoing terrorism in Northern Ireland. What made them realise this? I would say it was prosperity and the loosening of the grip of religion which allows a more rational approach to life. Palestinian terrorists meanwhile are impoverished and therefore ignorant/religious so they think terrorism can bring some reward.
It was not brave of the Irish to agree to amend the constitution to give up the claim to NI for peace. It made sense. The Irish people realised that they were losing so much by the ongoing terrorism in Northern Ireland. What made them realise this? I would say it was prosperity and the loosening of the grip of religion which allows a more rational approach to life. Palestinian terrorists meanwhile are impoverished and therefore ignorant/religious so they think terrorism can bring some reward.
Palestinian terrorism is anything but impoverished. they area trained like soldiers to fight like soldiers. most bombing are deeply planed long before the boombing itself happens. for example, the last terrorist attack to strike israel in the religious school (where 8 kids died!) was planed for over 6 monthes before the attack happened.
they are killing machines and should be treated as such.
The footsoldiers who carry out terrorist acts are generally deluded religious fanatics from ignorant, impoverished backgrounds. They may have rich sponsors but Israel can not complain since it receives billions from the U.S. every year.
those 2 subjects have nothing to do with each other. the money we get goes into fighting terrorists. thier money goes to fighting civilians. see the diffrance?
I long for the end of religion. It is a dangerous tool to foster hatred and there is no need for it. There is no evidence for it any religion and it should be scrapped. People should be embarrassed to admit practicing it but not forced to abandon it because this just makes it more entrenched.
I long for the end of religion. It is a dangerous tool to foster hatred and there is no need for it. There is no evidence for it any religion and it should be scrapped. People should be embarrassed to admit practicing it but not forced to abandon it because this just makes it more entrenched.
Definition of ethnic cleansing by Encyclopedia Britannica online: " the attempt to create ethnically homogeneous geographic areas through the deportation or forcible displacement of persons belonging to particular ethnic groups. Ethnic cleansing sometimes involves the removal of all physical vestiges of the targeted group through the destruction of monuments, cemeteries, and houses of worship."
It is certainly going on in the occupied territories. (Israel became majority Jewish due to ethnic cleansing. Don't confuse the term with genocide as that is only one means of ethnic cleansing)
The concept of a Jewish state for a Jewish people underpins Zionism and it is as racist a concept as a White America and it took ethnic cleansing to remove many Palestinians from their land within the new Israel before and after 1948. Are the Jewish people safer in Israel or in the U.S. for instance? Maybe you think the Hezbollah and Hamas attacks are not as dangerous as American suburbia?
despite what many people think, 2 things are wrong in your comment:
1)israel wasn't founded as a jewish state, it was founded as a state with a jewish majority.
the decleration of independance clearly states this. if what you said is true, how can thier be about 500,000 arab-israeli citizens? how can thier be arab partys in the israeli parlament?
2)there has never been or ever will be ethnic cleansing in israel, thats pure propaganda. on top of that, israel has never ever removed Palestinians from their land within Israel, before or after 1948.
the refugees that now want to return left of thier own free will, they were never kicked out by enyone. they left bacause arab leaders scared them into leaving and now they want back in the train to a better life. they bet on the wrong horse and lost. and now thier cry to the world about it.
people should have thier own country, are the jews an exeption?
wherever the jews went they were abused and removed from ormal society. people even tried to exterminate them. at one point the jews got up and said: "never again"
it is the jews' right and responsibility
to help themselves. if you wont do anything for yoursrlf why would you expect charity.
those are the principles on which israel was founded.
The Jews can have a country in Israel. However their continued disobedience of international law by illegally occupying the Palestinian territories will continue to bring them terrorism until they obey the law.
Hamas does not make international law. Hezbollah does not make international law. There is nothing tricky about it. Israel is not obeying international law but demands that international law is applied to Iraq and Iran. The double standard is obvious. All countries are subject to international law - no exceptions.
...If Israel were to remove the illegal setlements and the apartheid wall and allow the Palestinians to have Eastern Jerusalem as their capital (with access for all faiths to the holy places) so that the Palestinians could have a viable contiguous state free of all Israeli interference while compensating the Palestinian refugees for their land then I would defend Israel myself.
b)actually, what you said isnt true. not all holy places to the jews are open to them.
to the Temple Mount for example, the holiest place to judaisem, jews can't enter because theres a mosque on it now. its in the middle of jeruslamen and jews cant pray there. does that make sense to you?
c)i am not deceived. trust me.
d) they were offered a country twice. they refused on both times. thats thier problem.
a)Was the apartheid wall that has been shown on the news a mirage?
b)It's under one of Islam's holiest sites in the Palestinian half of Jerusalem. The occupation makes it difficult for Jews to go there...that didn't stop Sharon going there to provoke the second intifada, however.
c)I trust myself more than you.
d)It's kind of your problem too seeing as they are resisting the occupation with violence. Of course Israel could just obey international law and the problem would be solved.
a)its kind of like the chinese wall. holes everywhere.
b)its not one of Islam's holiest sites. thats arab propaganda. jerusalem isnt mentioned once in the quaran.
c)I never said you cant trust yourself, what I am saing is that as a part of the conflict, I have more info then you. its all arab propaganda. no arab was kicked out. they all ran of thier own will.
d)if they respond in violence isnt it our right to stop them from hurting us?
a)So the wall does exist - if there are holes everywhere then why bother with having the wall since it is so bad for Israel's image. Tear it down.
b)If the Muslim community say that their religion nolds the Al-Aqsa mosque sacred then I believe that it is sacred to them. It is not up to you to call it propaganda.
c)How do you know how much info you have an how much propaganda?
d)Dpn't the people of an occupied country have the right to resist?
a)the wall is partely successfull in stoping (or at least delaying) terrorists.
b)the quaran speceficly says that israel belongs to no one else but the jews.
and yet, were still in this mess.
c)im an israeli citizen. ive served time in the army. ive been to these places, ive talked to these people, ive seen the results of the conflict with my own eyes.
d)no one, ever, has the right to use violence to get what they want. the palastinians stoped trying to be diplomatic back in the 1920'.
a))im a little in between on the wall thing. We (most israelis) will agree to take it down though the minete that another solution will be found that keeps israel safe.
b)israel is a secular state. palastine isnt going to be one.
c)never said im not. you seem to kmow much of the palastinian side of the conflict. im here to make you see the other side too.
a)Building a wall that encloses Palestinian territory creates hatred amongst the Palestinians. They see that Israel is stealing more of their land. Not a recipe for safety for Israel.
b)No work of fiction such as the Koran, the Bible, or the Torah should be allowed to distort or dilute international law.
c)I am biased in favour of Palestinians because they have had their land stolen and are not allowed to be free by a brutal oppressor.
a)True - but Israel is a democracy so they have the ability to change their strategy of oppressing the Palestinians
b)International law is non-negotiable.
c)Far more Palestinians than Israelis are killed in the violence. The Palestinians have had their land stolen and live in poverty and under military occupation by the world's fourth largest military power which is aided financially and militarily by the world's foremost military power.
a)One kidnapped Israeli soldier causes so much fuss. The Palestinians are prepared to give many lives to defeat Israel. Israel winces with every lost soldier. All Israel have to do is leave the Palestinian occupied territories and hand back Eastern Jerusalem to the Palestinians. Any other piecemeal attempts at negotiation will fail.
a)"One kidnapped Israeli soldier causes so much fuss" youll be able to talk when your 19 year old son is kidnapped by terrorists and you dont see him for over 2 years.
why does it surprise you that israel will do anything in its power to help its people.
you said it yourself, the palastinians dont care if thier men die (after all,who cares HOW the job was done?), but for every israeli killed the entire country mourns. I think it tells you something about the quallty of the people, doesnt it?
again, agian you say "hand back", how can you return something that never belonged to the ones your returning it to.
the palastinians never had control of the land, ever. it is true that they were offered those areas but the said NO. instead of taking the deal that would have given them 90%of the israeli mandate (im counting jorden too) the decided to declare war on the israelis. israel won and won not only all of its territorys but also some that were suposed to be given to the palastinian.
b)Less than half the world is Arab. Half of Palestine and Israel is Arab. Only the extremists think that Israel has no right to exist...the Palestinian people will grasp peace when they have freedom. Israel's disobedience of international law is what has got them into such a mess.
-only 20% of israel is arab (not counting the strip and gaza. with them its about 35% precent) the other 80% is jewish.
-if you elect an extremist party as your leader (hamas) then your an extremist.
the Palestinian people dont want peace,they want israel. im pro peace talks, but israel as no one to talk to! the palastinian prime minister crys for the destruction of israel on a daily basis!
when your aided by the entire arab world you tend to get enogh money. the problem is that that money is spent on weapons instead of food. rockets instead of medication. guns instead of books.
but then again why would they spend all that money on the right things when israel gives them for free.
did you know that 90% of the gas and electricity of both the strip and gaza come from israel? has been so for 40 years.
c)Israel receives more foreign aid from the U.S. than the rest of the world put together so let's not get hypocritical about this. Tell me - where does Israel get it's water? It gets a lot of it from the West Bank and the Oslo accord reflects Israel's intent to steal the majority of the West Bank's water sources. The Palestinians' lack of infrastructure is purely due to Israeli oppression and occupation.
I never said we dont get money, but you make it sound like they dont get money at all.
unfortunatly, on top of our wars we have to fight the rest of the worlds wars. we get mney because our problems reflect on the entire world.
and again, the palastinians get quite a lot of money from Iran and syria these days. they just dont get the money in bills, they get it in guns, ammo and rockets.
Israel's problems are of its own making and it has made it's oppression of the Palestinians into a motivation for hatred of the West in Muslim countries due to it's disobedience of international law which it it maintains only by staunch backing from the U.S.
I get one majot thing from our debtas, you dont really know much about the conflict. you know dry facts (and not all of them are true.) but you dont know about thier effects in the real world. israel is not a war zone and gaza isnt a concentration camp. I suggest you travel to israel once. not only is this a beautiful country, it will make you much more educated.
no, you are correct. dry facts are not context-dependent by their very definition. that doesnt make context any less importent.
heres a fact: Hitler was the democraticly elected leader of germany in WWII.
does that fact tells you everything you need to know of Hitler? no, because you need the context of the fact (the context being whaat kind of a madman Hitler was and that is leadership was anything but democratic)
To state that Hitler was democratically elected leader of Germany is to advertise your lack of understanding of history. Hitler was not elected chancellor of Germany - he was appointed by von Hindenburg in a back-room deal. This was not an example of being democratically elected.
hitler was not elected democraticly, that is corrent.
my mistake didnt come from a lack of knowledge but from a underestimating my debate opponent.
what I meant to say was that hitler was apointed in a democratic country. since every comment on youtube only allows 500 chars I thought id skip the entire story and just make my point clear.unfortunatly, I chose the wrong words to describe my intentions.
I apologize for underestimating you. it will not happen again.
You see people always try to put dry facts in their proper context - this is an avenue to propaganda and subjectivism. I believe that it is important to stick purely to the facts and tomake sure that they are correct. Do you see how the context you provided about Hitler being a madman and so on was irrelevant to the fallacy of your statement that he was democratically?...because he was not elected democratically at all. Just the facts.
do you really belive what you are doing now is not propaganda? you choose the facts and claims that support you idea and so do I. its the way of the world. a man cannot remain objective for long.
the only way to really get the facts is to read both your comments and mine and take it from there.
Propaganda, persuasion...it's all the same thing. Free speech. Undoubtedly, I have a pro-Palestinian bias since I keep making their case. This is probably due to my environment and the sum of my life's experiences. As a typical Irishman, I am biased against imperialism and driving native people from their land to make way for a supposedly superior, more deserving people. This also influences my perspective on the validity of insurgency in the face of foreign occupation.
you mention you are against imperialism and driving native people from their land to make way for a supposedly superior, more deserving people. I completely agree with you but this has nothing to do with this situation. this is not imperialism and therefor your argument falls. this is the land of our ancestors, the land where we bacame the people we are today, the land that we made what it is. in a way, trying to take the land away from us and giving it to the arabs is just as imperialistic.
The seed of imperialism is the belief that your own culture and way of life issuperior andshould be considered a gift to the people that you occupy - the fruit of imperialism is ethnic cleansing. Palestine/Israel may have been the historic homeland of the Jews but they were only a tiny minority there for 2,000 years. In the meantime, the indigenous population developed as majority Arab. So the right of Jews to take the land back from these Arabs/Palestinians by force is debatable.
The people now known as Palestinians have lived in Palestine for centuries. The Ottoman Empire controlled the land up to the early 20th century and the land was majority Muslim/Arab up to the Nakba. Zionist ethnic cleansing and war was used to create the Jewish-controlled Israel where previously the majority were Arab - fact.
and the Canaanites who were the original occupiers of the land of Palestine were ethnically cleansed by the Jewish invaders. It says so in the Torah/Old Testament.
Israel is not the only land that made the Israelis the people they are today. The vast majority of Israelis are descended from the Jewish diaspora with influences from all over the world. It is a kind of arrogance to say that the Jews made Israel/Palestine what it is without recognising that the creation of Israel necessitated the displacement and refusal of the right of return to the indigenous Arabs/Palestinians. It's as if you are trying to erase the identity of the Palestinians.
Dry facts are facts without emotional residue...I realise that one can only aspire to this abstract notion, especially when discussing the Israel-Palestinian conflict but it is a worthy aspiration.
c)Israel receives more foreign aid from the U.S. than the rest of the world put together so let's not get hypocritical about this. Tell me - where does Israel get it's water? It gets a lot of it from the West Bank and the Oslo accord reflects Israel's intent to steal the majority of the West Bank's water sources. The Palestinians' lack of infrastructure is purely due to Israeli oppression and occupation.
Israel is facing a water crisis and it has strongly considered bringin in water in supertankers from Turkey. This is why Israel is trying to take control of most of the West Bank's water supplies.
I really dont know what your talking about. thats just not true. we do have a lack of water, but no one onsidered bringin in water in supertankers from Turkey. and the west bank has kes water then we have. most of the bank is dessert, by the way.
Just google it. It is easy to find out about recent plans that the Israeli government had to bring in water from Turkey. The West Bank's water sources are being monopolised by Israeli settlers who should not be there according to international law.
b)the Mountain Aquifer is one of the biggst problems israel has in her battle for peace. Mountain Aquifer sits at one of the most disputed lands on earth and the situation is so complicated no matter what I say it wont do the situation justice. what I can say is that while the base of it is in the west bank it does naturaly flow into israel.
c)im referring to the article you referrd me to on google.
The Mountain aquifer is mainly in the West Bank...so the West Bank does have a water source that Israel needs. The reason Israel is so worried about water supplies is because much of Israel is arid and the neighbouring countries are enemies of Israel because of the illegal occupation of the Palestinian trerritories so they will not supply water to Israel.
a)again, the Mountain aquifer flows naturaly into israel and only because of that it is used. in the past, the palastinians have tried to deflect it so it wont go into israel. that is why israel controls it.
b)the neighbouring countries have the same water problem as we do.
a)Israel takes the majority of the water from the mountain aquifer which is primarily located in the Palestinian territories leaving the Palestinians with water shortages
a) israel takes water only from the part of the mountain aquifer that is in israel. it has prevented though the changing of the mountain aquifer' route that was being attempted by the palastinians.
the palastinians are free to use the mountain aquifer, but they keep trying to change its route. thats why it is under israeli control.
Iraq- really? you want israel to get water from iraq?
siriously?
Turkey- weve been there before. lets not go there again.
Eygpt- in terms of water sources, eygpt only has the nile as a source. most of its land is pure sand and dessert and the niles water only reaches about 20% of eygpt. the dont have enogh water to supply themselves so they cant afford to supply us.
So your argument is because it is a little difficult for Israel to get water from its neighbours because of its own stubborness (in the case of Turkey) or its generally aggressive foreign policy towards its neighbours that this is reason enough for Israel to slice and dice the Palestinian territories (that it OCCUPIES) as it wishes? This is no more than imperialism.
c) the neighbouring countries dont recognze israel for one reason. they wont Acknowledge israel ecause if the do, there basicly saying that israel has a right to exict as it did 2000 years ago, and therefor deserves control of the land the had 2000 years ago.
Israel was not a very happy little country 2,000 years ago due to imperialist oppression by the Roman Empire. The Palestinians are the ones who are being oppressed today. There was no international law 2,000 years ago, merely the law of the jungle or dog eat dog. Unfortunately Israel seems to believe that this law is superior to international law, especially when Israel is so strong.
if thats the case and Israel believes that the strong should survive then hasnt it slaughterd the palstinians? you have already pointed out that we dont listen to international law and that we definatly have the power to do so.
ill tell you why we dont. its pretty simple. we dont want to. everyone has a right to live, no matter what race or religion hes from. that would never change and thats what the israeli goverment and the israeli people belives.
You want to know why Israel doesn't just eliminate the Palestinians since it has no respect for international law and adheres to the policy of dog-eat-dog? Simple..it's because there is a bigger dog which Israel relies on for protection and approval and funding and support - the U.S.
What does the U.S. get from its alliance with Israel? It must be something very worthwhile since it seems to have been part of the reason for 9/11 according to bin Laden. I simply do not see what the U.S. gets for its $3-4.5 billion per year. The force of international law is what Israel is up against in the UN and unfortunately, it has been proven time and again that this force is nowhere near strong enough to oblige Israel to obey international law. (Count the U.S. vetoes pertaining to Israel)
what does the US get from its alliance with Israel? not much. only israels best intel and information, every one of israels technological andvancements (and theres a lot!), highst rated weapons and milatry developments. and lets not forget the fact that is get a connection with the only real democracy in the region.
and lets not talk money. the americans spend more money in a month in iraq (where they use technoladgy developed by israel) then they do on israel in a year.
and no one said we were happy 2000 years ago. the jewish people have always had enemys and the arabs arent the first to try and take this place from us. this has always been a shitty little piece of land in the middle of nowhere but that doesnt change the fact that this is the land of my ancestors, a land the jewish people have lived in for over 5000 years, the land on which I grew up and raised to be the man I am today. and for that, I will protect it for the rest of my life.
im not surprised at all that they are patriotic. and im even OK with them being patriotic. trust me, there is nothing israel wants more then a palastinian country (that is not on israeli land of course and thats undersandable).
what I dissagree with is thier actions and attepts at getting that coveted country.
when you target civilians you show a deep disregard for humen life or ethical actions. and that is something I cant or ever will understand.
Israel has only offered partial sovereignty to the Palestinians. They have offered them Palestinian cantons divided by Israeli land. Also, the Zionist negotiating position is one of: "what's mine is mine - what's yours we can be negotiate about". If you had suffered foreign occupation as the Palestinians have, you might understand, if not condone the terrorists. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.
is a man entering a resturaunt in tel aviv and blowing up in the name of his people and in the process kills little kids a freedom fighter in your eyes?
be carful with your words.
and do you really want to talk to a jew about foreign occupation? our history is filled with foreign occupation.
Whether a man is seen as a freedom fighter or a terrorist depends very often upon propaganda and political convenience. I would call a man who lills civilians intentionally a murderer. If he does it to create terror to achieve a political aim then he is a terrorist. There is terror on the Palestinian side and terror on the Israeli side. One side uses Qassam rockets and suicide bombers - the other uses tanks raids, house demolitions and aerial strikes.
The Jewish diaspora were not occupied. The last time the Jews were occupied for any considerable time was when Judaea was occupied by the Roman Empire. Was the Roman Empire justified in occupying Judaea? No, in my opinion. Is Israel justified in occupying the "occupied territories"? Again, I would say no.
god bless hitler
omarlondon 1 year ago
And ask this question: "why no one is trusting to help you?" Becuase your country is far militerized than what Hitler was and in fact your are not talking about a country! This is not disputed, this is an OCCUPIED land. I believe the world has the knowledge and knowledge is POWER. And finally Imagibe the New England is renamed to CHINA, with a false claim on it. Then "what would the neighbor countries will do?" The land that you are talking about does not have a UN document as a country.
richardmantorin 1 year ago
And ask this question: "why no one is trusting to help you?" Becuase your country is far militerized than what Hitler was and in fact your are not talking about a country! This is not disputed, this is an OCCUPIED land. I believe the world has the knowledge and knowledge is POWER. And finally Imagibe the New England is renamed to CHINA, with a false claim on it. Then "what would the neighbor countries will do?" The land that you are talking about does not have a UN document as a country.
richardmantorin 1 year ago
Nobody is going to help you achieve peace on your own terms. Concessions have to be made and your opponents need to be treated equally in this matter to tell there side of the story and be given necessary provisions. Fair is fair!
gimelzwa 3 years ago
in shaa allah soon we back to our country palastin
n make it the most peautiful country on earth palastin in my heart n who hurt it i explone him
mostafviva 3 years ago
@mostafviva No such place. Never has been.
TeachESL 1 year ago
u r right no such place never has been in marse "welcome to earth"
free palastin
save its ppl from nuclerar "zionism gangs"
kick the zionism back to east europ n return palastinian to palastin
god creat rights to fight for it n our rights is to back to p[alastin
mostafviva 1 year ago
@mostafviva LOL LOL LOL You have been fed lies.
TeachESL 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@mostafviva LOL LOL LOL You have been fed lies.
TeachESL 1 year ago
Oh, i forgot something : a very interesting video you made here, good work. As Voltaire said : "I disagree with what you say, but I will fight for your right to say it".
BoomChikahWinWin 3 years ago
humm...I've read again myself, and that's not quite clear, is'nt it ;) Excuse my english writting, i'm not use to...To make it shorter, here is a question (read it well and think before you aswer) : What system do you prefer between a Democracy that hurts its people (social and economic violence for example) and a Dictatorship truely inhabited by its people content. Freedom is not a goal in itself, and we democrats from western world do not hold the One Truth : such thing does not exist.
BoomChikahWinWin 3 years ago
@BoomChikahWinWin
A democracy is less likely to hurt its people than a dictatorship. In a dictatorship, all the power resides in the hands of one person and they are likely to oppress their people because their power is unchecked.
badger5079 1 year ago
Let me complete this :
Disarm Hezbollah : agree
Disarm Hamas : agree
Free Syria : from who? the Syrians? And replacing them by colons, maybe?
Free kidnapped soldiers : soldiers die, that's what they're made for (not that i'm pleased with it, just a statement)
One more thing : Stop the colonizations and daily humiliations of a whole people, that will give you the right to fight back on those who wants to kill you.
BoomChikahWinWin 3 years ago
Free Syria from the dictatorship of the Assads and the family's cronies and crooks.
You don't think the Syrian people have a right to live free from fear, censorship and brutality?
What kind of person are you?
politicaobscura 3 years ago
Well, if we go that way, maybe we should consider our own crooks legally elected, don't you think?
What kind of person am I? Just a person humble enough to consider his values and heritage (the American declaration of independance, the French revolution...) may not apply just like that to other cultures and people.
Here is a difficult thing to hear maybe, but we democrats (i mean people who believe in democracy)are not obviously right, just because we're democrats.
BoomChikahWinWin 3 years ago
Sadly, you didn't answer my question about the Syrian people living under the Assad regime...
politicaobscura 3 years ago
Israel shouldn't be there!
Simple as!
lee1990hull 3 years ago
tell that to the millions of palestianins in the west bank still under siege after a year of emargo on food,water, medicin, electricity ...... "yeah You are free" can you fly little birdy.
danbagheri 3 years ago
this video is annoying to me.I'm not anti semetic,but if jews came to my house and told me to leave,then i would do everything in my power to destroy them.they treat palestinians like shit,what do they expect to happen when they take peoples land and homes.
ganzer88 4 years ago
thats the thing, no one ever told them to leave. no one ever kicked anyone out.
the israeli declaration of independence clearly states that every non jewish resident of the area will become a citizen of the country if they choose so. and that promise was kept. every arab in israel is entitled to citizenship through the same guidelines as the jewish people are.
and how will you treat those who blow up in your house, give them milk and cookies?
WAKE UP!
zussmann 4 years ago
You can't treat the Palestinians like shit and ex[ect me to feel sorry for you.
bAllen173216 4 years ago
Watch the video: "not so cool Israel"
palomoalbeiro 4 years ago
1)Israel illegaly occupies territories of other countries and destroyed Palestine.
2)Israel ethnically cleanses villages and demolishes their homes.
3)Israel invaded and bombed Lebanon and killing thousands of innocent civilians.
4) Israel is building a segregation wall (just like the apartheid regime)
6) Israel builds illegal settlements in occupied land.
7) Israel targets civilians and justifies it
8) Israel legalized torture.
palomoalbeiro 4 years ago
Nice list. Very creative. Inventive. Who invented Palestine? The Ottomans? Great Britain? WHo invented Israel? The Israelis? The Hebrews? Who was there first? The Hebrews. Who gave the Arabs permission to settle in Israel? The Romans? The caliphs? Neither had the right to steal Israel. So, save your bullshit about ethnic cleansing and segregation. If Israel doesn't keep the Arabs out, it will collapse, just as Lebanon did.
kazuo62 4 years ago
The Bible tells how the Jews killed off the Canaanites (who were in Palestine before the Jews) so that they could take over the land. Now, I don't believe in using the Bible as a guide for future Middle Eastern politics but if the Zionists insist then I will neutralise this stupid argument by using their own tools against them.
badger5079 4 years ago
Since when do democratic nations engage in Crimes Against Humanity as the State of Israel committs in occupied UNGA 181 State of Palestine?
Maybe if these wicked perosns of likud would cease from their aggression of plundering Palestinian lands there wouold be a ray of hope for peace.
vistavision2 4 years ago
I deffinitly agree with you badger, but the neanderthals are currently residing in the midle east area,and you seem to be taking the subject a wee bit to touchy. Listen it all lies in what our govermnts decide to do in the end so rather then blaming the people you should start with the nations that have caused these issues
CollinZfresh 4 years ago
"it all lies in what our govermnts decide to do in the end"
Surely our governments should not be doing the deciding. If we live in true democracies let the people decide our Middle East policy by referendum i.e. Should there be an international peace-keeping force between Israel and the occupied Palestinian territories?
badger5079 4 years ago
"people need to see your comments- then they will realize how stupid the pro terrorism side is!!!"
I agree. People should read my comments to hear the truth about Israel/U.S. terrorism.
Go listen to some more Blink 182 you inbred 'tard.
badger5079 4 years ago
badger5079, you're stupid for so many reasons. First of all, you are falinf to understand the fact that Isrel is the Jewish land, the RIGHTFUL Jewish land. The so-called non-existing "Palastinians" are not like you, they think otherwise, they hate an entire cizilization, which Israel is its front-line.
Talaiden 4 years ago
You are so full with yourself and spreading the evil lies you have read in the internet. Yearn for my destruction, fair enough, but trust me that after Israel America and Europe are going to fall so hard.
So buzz off my view, jerk, leave the debates to people that actually LIVE the conflict.
Talaiden 4 years ago
"leave the debates to people that actually LIVE the conflict."
Aaaah... another Zionist telling me that his country's never-ending provocation of Palestinians doesn't affect me...or that I have no right to free speech.
BTW ..where did I say that I yearn for your destruction, you paranoid git?
badger5079 4 years ago
When you decline my right to live in my country, when you say my country does not have the right to exist... you can figure it out be you own, I hope. Israel's population is diverse, I myself have Jewish-Tunisian and Jewish-Germen ancestries.
Talaiden 4 years ago
When did I say that Israel doesn't have a right to exist? You have jumped to conclusions again, you snivelling, worthless specimen. Use your brain.
badger5079 4 years ago
I am afraid that you are subjective even more then I am, because you blindly supporrt the false "Palestinian" nation, and never attempt to hear and understand what the other side have to say. 6,000,000 Jews were murdered in the sake of hatred, but I am sure you filthy narrow-minded wouldn't care at all.
Talaiden 4 years ago
Stop trying to use the Nazi genocide to justify ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian people. The Palestinians are as real as the Jews. But you are a bigot who wants to steamroller all Arabs because of your hatred. Your attitude is the epitome of everything that is prolonging the conflict.
badger5079 4 years ago
There is no ethnic cleansing. There are no death camps for Palestinians. Arafat was just as happy to invent a Palestinian nation in Beruit as he was in Jerusalem. The Palestinians choose to live in shit.
kazuo62 4 years ago
So there must be death camps before one can say that ethnic cleansing has occured? I am sure that the people of Bosnia and Rwanda would be confused by your definition....
badger5079 4 years ago
...Israel was imposed as a Jewish state upon a majority Muslim population and only the subsequen ethnic cleansing could secure Israel from the Palestinian ressitance (plus billions of dollars of U.S. military support) The Zionists choose to deny their Palestinian neighbours the right to have thir own state and so condemn the Israeli people to either eternal war or a repetition of the Final Solution concept - only this time against Palestinians.
badger5079 4 years ago
Ignorance is bliss, eh?
There was no Muslim majority in the borders of the Declaration of Israel. And yes, Israel is a JEWISH COUNTRY. There are bloody 26 Arab-Muslim countries, but how many Jewish countries are there? ONE!!! The "Palis" condemnd us! They wanna kill us all, to drive us to the sea, while we offer them lands and independence and they fire missilies at us! ARE YOU FUCKING BLIND?!
Ohh, alarm again. I'm running to the shelter.
I don't wanna be killed by a MISSILE, you know.
Talaiden 4 years ago
There are a lot more Muslims in the world than Jews so it is stupid to argue that Muslims have too many countries compared to the Jews. For your Israel to become a Jewish country many thousands of Palestinians had to be uprooted from their homes and continue to live as refugees or in bantustans in the occupied territories. This is the essence of Zionism.
badger5079 4 years ago
you are talking a load of crap, the jews didn't kick the palestinians out of israel,they left on there own accord. the ones that stayed were treated as equals to israelis then along came the killers, arafat and his band of thugs breeding hatred and murder. if the palestinians want there own country then they must earn it by stopping all the killing and show that they are worthy to have there own country. Don't blame Israel for all of the problems {fight fire with fire}
4magnums 4 years ago
Some Palestinians left in 1948 "of their own accord" because they thought that if they stayed in the path of the fighting they might be killed. After the war was over they discovered that Zionist Israel treated them not as refugees who had the right to return to their homes but as a threat to the plan for a majority-Jewish Israel.
badger5079 4 years ago
Since the Zionist government of Israel's policy is to treat all Palestinians as terrorist suspects and second class human beings, then it is unlikely that the Palestinians would ever be allowed to have their own state if they were to depend upon selfish Zionists to judge them worthy first....
badger5079 4 years ago
what would you call worthy? somone who sends their kids to blowup innocent people.
palestians had the right to come into israel to work. (can an israeli go into an arab town} no they cant without getting killed. the poverty that they live in has been bought on by themselves. you dont cut off the hand that feeds you. but they hav'nt the sence to see this
4magnums 4 years ago
...Why should Zionist hypocrites expect that the Palestinians will not fight for their freedom rather than accept what measly parcels of land the land thieves see fit to give back to them? After all, Israel itself would not have been created if it were not fought for...does this violence that was necessary to create the state of Israel mean that Israelis are not "worthy" to have their own country?
badger5079 4 years ago
they dont have to fight for freedom they can sit down and talk.again israel was not created by war but gived in 1948 by the united nations. the palestinians could have had their own country years ago but they chose violence and hatred over common sense. That is acommon fault with fools
4magnums 4 years ago
The Israel of today is not the Israel of 1948 - the Israel of today includes land gained by conquest and ethnic cleansing.
badger5097 4 years ago
Israel was declared and only then was the hand of the UN forced into recognising Israel. The settlements being offered by the Israelis have become increasingly unacceptable from a Palestinian viewpoint and this is planned by the Zionist regime so that the Palestinians are forced to refuse.
badger5079 4 years ago
what is unacceptable?
we offered them a country, for petes sake!
the thing you dont get is that no settlement will be ok unless it includes the all of israel inside the palastinian state.
they can have gaza, we can negotiate on the bank , but the cant have Jerusalem.
I quite francly, I dont think refusing to give up on my capital makes me a bad man.
zussmann 4 years ago
Israel was "earned" by war and killing so why do you expect the Palestinians to behave any better than the Israelis? Arafat is a product of Zionist oppression of the Palestinian society - the lack of freedom imposed by Zionist occupation and oppression allows bottom-feeders like Arafat to gain control. Palestinians have a lot of potential but none if it can come out because they are not free.
badger5079 4 years ago
I am sorry that I am not willing to give up the land which my nation was driven out 2000 years ago, the land which my nation built from scratch... Or maybe I am not sorry at all. The fact that Israel is the rightful Jewish land is indisputible, but what can I expect from an Anti-Semitic Irish man who sits in his couch, and cry about the oh-so-poor Palis which are being viciously killed during an attempt to kill Israeli civilians?
Jerk.
Talaiden 4 years ago
Do you stand up rather than sit down when you type comments on Youtube or something? If so, does that make you morally superior or something? (I recommend sitting when you type, it just works...)
BTW, playing the Zionist victim card is laughable. ...
badger5079 4 years ago
i am not a zionist but a jew who will do anything which will protect its citizens.
stop going on about zionists becouse you have no idea what a zionist is
4magnums 4 years ago
A Zionist is somebody who believes that the Palestinians do not have the right to an independent state and who prefers that Israel remain at war than hand back control of the West Bank and East Jerusalem to the Palestinian people...
badger5097 4 years ago
wow you really dont know what your talking about.
a)there is no ethnic cleansing.
b)most israelis do belive the palastinians deserve a country (and thats why a left wing party is in control) they just dont think that country should be instead of israel.
c)you talk about giving east jerusalem like its nothing. in your profile it says your from ireland. how would you fell if someone asked you to give half of Dublin. now imagine how much harder it would be if it was holt to your religion.
zussmann 4 years ago
Israel merely has to obey international law and hand over control of the West Bank and Gaza to the Palestinians with East Jerusalem as the capital of the Palestinian state. This is what international law calls for. Israel stole Palestine from the the indigenous arabs.
badger5079 4 years ago
israel never stole anything from anyone.
aside from the fact that the jews used to live there in the past (and that has been proven by archeological evidence.) the palastinians never had control of the land.
ill explain who ruled in the last 500 years.
first it was the turkes. they treated the palastinians as bad as they trated the jews. then came the british mandate that was made to create a jewish state. from that mandate came israel.
if they never had the country, how could we steal it?
zussmann 4 years ago
You now have an internationally recognised state with an advanced economy and a powerful military but you choose to keep the Palestinians stateless by changing the ethnic balance of the West Bank using illegal settlements and the apartheid wall. The ongoing enclosure of the hinterland of East Jerusalem by illegal Jewish settlements shows hat the Israeli government is not acting in good faith with the Palestinian aspirations for statehood.
badger5079 4 years ago
lets talk numbers, shall we:
the palastinians were offerd a country twice,
in 48 and again in 2000. both times they declined. they dont want a country, they want israel.
in 48 they were offered 90% of the britsh mandate (80% of it is now jorden. the last 10% was for the palastinian state) and the jews would get 10% (60% of the jewish area is dessert by the way).
you would think 90% of the area was good enogh, but you know what they did in retaliantion to the offer.
the revolted.
zussmann 4 years ago
Jordan was separated from Palestine in 1922 and was never subject to the Balfour declaration. The Balfour declaration did not apply to the land east of the Jordan. Jordan was never Palestine. Your 90% figure and your numbers in general are easily exposed as a distortion of reality (a distortion commonly used by Zionists who presume that their opponents do not know the facts about Israel). If you are just going to lie then you have lost the argument.
badger5079 4 years ago
actually the Balfour declaration was in 1918, 4 years before jorden was separated. while the Balfour declaration does not specify the boarders of the new country it was belived at the time that they include Jorden.
so that froves you wrong and all you comment goes down in flames.
and one more thing, why would I need to lie? I got truth and justice on my side.
zussmann 4 years ago
1. The Balfour Declaration was in November 2nd 1917..please be more careful.
2. You say "the Balfour declaration does not specify the boarders of the new country it was belived at the time that they include Jorden."
Firstly the Balfour Declaration does not talk about a new country at all...it talks about a "national home for the Jewish people" (this could have been a trinational state with power-sharing between Jews, Arabs and Christians) .
badger5079 3 years ago
actually, the Balfour declaration was released in 1918, 4 years before the seperation of Jorden.
so your arguments go up in flames .
arguments commonly used by anti-Zionists who presume that their opponents do not know the facts about Israel.
zussmann 4 years ago
the building in jerusalem is a problem, im not saying that it isnt. theres a lot of controvercy about it.
most israelis are against the building and so were the previous goverments. the current prime minister is an idiot so the situation is complex.
zussmann 4 years ago
The people of the Irish Republic altered the constitution so hat we would relinquish nationalist aspirations to unify the island and free Northern Island from British rule. We did this for peace...we gave up our claim to Northern Ireland. Terrorism thrives upon tacit acceptance/fear by the "civilian" population.
badger5079 4 years ago
Both Loyalist and Republican communities in Northern Ireland decided to put peace first but REAL sacrifices needed to be made. International law did not demand that we give up our claim to Northern Ireland which the British colonised but we did it for peace. You Israelis might learn from this.
Religion is a mass delusion which is an obstacle to peace as it encourages tribslism and racism.
badger5079 4 years ago
yout forgeting some things:
1) you talk about your brave act but you seem to gorget that we did the same thing. back in 2004 israel removed any ileagel setllments from the gaza strip and left the area entirly.
we basicly got up, kicked civilians of thier homes and them gave thier houses to an enemy of our state. this was a complitly one sided move. you know what we got in return?
even more rockets on our towns.
only now they are shot from the naigborhoods we gave them.
zussmann 4 years ago
Isreal withdrew from Gaza but builds more illegal settlements in the West Bank which it desires more than Gaza. It is easier to change the ethnic balance of the West Bank with illegal Israeli colonies. This is an attempt to creat realities on the ground so that Israel will be able to claim as much land as possible. Israel's deception is obvious to the Paestinians and the international community.
badger5079 4 years ago
The people of the Irish Republic recognised the will of the majority of Northern Ireland's citizens to remain a part of the U.K. To attempt to unify the island through force is mere fascism when the majority of people of N.I. are against it.
badger5079 4 years ago
Why do the Israelis fail to withdraw from all illegally occupied territories for peace? Israel has no claim to any of the occupied territories under international law so withdrawing from Gaza is no sacrifice deserving reward - it is mandatory. Occupation brings terror to both Israelis and Palestinians.
badger5079 4 years ago
It was not brave of the Irish to agree to amend the constitution to give up the claim to NI for peace. It made sense. The Irish people realised that they were losing so much by the ongoing terrorism in Northern Ireland. What made them realise this? I would say it was prosperity and the loosening of the grip of religion which allows a more rational approach to life. Palestinian terrorists meanwhile are impoverished and therefore ignorant/religious so they think terrorism can bring some reward.
badger5079 4 years ago
It was not brave of the Irish to agree to amend the constitution to give up the claim to NI for peace. It made sense. The Irish people realised that they were losing so much by the ongoing terrorism in Northern Ireland. What made them realise this? I would say it was prosperity and the loosening of the grip of religion which allows a more rational approach to life. Palestinian terrorists meanwhile are impoverished and therefore ignorant/religious so they think terrorism can bring some reward.
badger5079 4 years ago
trust me, as a former IDF soldier i can say this:
Palestinian terrorism is anything but impoverished. they area trained like soldiers to fight like soldiers. most bombing are deeply planed long before the boombing itself happens. for example, the last terrorist attack to strike israel in the religious school (where 8 kids died!) was planed for over 6 monthes before the attack happened.
they are killing machines and should be treated as such.
zussmann 4 years ago
The footsoldiers who carry out terrorist acts are generally deluded religious fanatics from ignorant, impoverished backgrounds. They may have rich sponsors but Israel can not complain since it receives billions from the U.S. every year.
badger5079 4 years ago
those 2 subjects have nothing to do with each other. the money we get goes into fighting terrorists. thier money goes to fighting civilians. see the diffrance?
zussmann 3 years ago
Religion isnt bad. Religion gives you a sence of belonging, a sence of understanding.
im not religious in any way by the way.
the problem is not religion, its Fundamentalism. theres a diffrance.
zussmann 4 years ago
I long for the end of religion. It is a dangerous tool to foster hatred and there is no need for it. There is no evidence for it any religion and it should be scrapped. People should be embarrassed to admit practicing it but not forced to abandon it because this just makes it more entrenched.
badger5079 4 years ago
I long for the end of religion. It is a dangerous tool to foster hatred and there is no need for it. There is no evidence for it any religion and it should be scrapped. People should be embarrassed to admit practicing it but not forced to abandon it because this just makes it more entrenched.
badger5079 4 years ago
Definition of ethnic cleansing by Encyclopedia Britannica online: " the attempt to create ethnically homogeneous geographic areas through the deportation or forcible displacement of persons belonging to particular ethnic groups. Ethnic cleansing sometimes involves the removal of all physical vestiges of the targeted group through the destruction of monuments, cemeteries, and houses of worship."
badger5079 4 years ago
by your definition of ethnic cleansing you prove my point. none of this is going on in israel.
never has.
never will.
zussmann 4 years ago
It is certainly going on in the occupied territories. (Israel became majority Jewish due to ethnic cleansing. Don't confuse the term with genocide as that is only one means of ethnic cleansing)
badger5079 4 years ago
trust me. ive been to these places. ive talked to these people.
I am a former israeli soldier I have been to both the bank and the gaza strip.
ethnic cleansing is not going on. never has . never wil.
we bacame the majority preaty simply.
after the holocaust, most jews started to understand that the only place they would be safe in is thier old country, israel.
during the 1950' more then 2 million jews came to israel. on top of the 1.5 mil that was already here.
simple as that.
good day
zussmann 4 years ago
The concept of a Jewish state for a Jewish people underpins Zionism and it is as racist a concept as a White America and it took ethnic cleansing to remove many Palestinians from their land within the new Israel before and after 1948. Are the Jewish people safer in Israel or in the U.S. for instance? Maybe you think the Hezbollah and Hamas attacks are not as dangerous as American suburbia?
badger5079 4 years ago
despite what many people think, 2 things are wrong in your comment:
1)israel wasn't founded as a jewish state, it was founded as a state with a jewish majority.
the decleration of independance clearly states this. if what you said is true, how can thier be about 500,000 arab-israeli citizens? how can thier be arab partys in the israeli parlament?
think about it.
zussmann 4 years ago
2)there has never been or ever will be ethnic cleansing in israel, thats pure propaganda. on top of that, israel has never ever removed Palestinians from their land within Israel, before or after 1948.
the refugees that now want to return left of thier own free will, they were never kicked out by enyone. they left bacause arab leaders scared them into leaving and now they want back in the train to a better life. they bet on the wrong horse and lost. and now thier cry to the world about it.
zussmann 4 years ago
in your previous comments you stated that all
people should have thier own country, are the jews an exeption?
wherever the jews went they were abused and removed from ormal society. people even tried to exterminate them. at one point the jews got up and said: "never again"
it is the jews' right and responsibility
to help themselves. if you wont do anything for yoursrlf why would you expect charity.
those are the principles on which israel was founded.
zussmann 4 years ago
The Jews can have a country in Israel. However their continued disobedience of international law by illegally occupying the Palestinian territories will continue to bring them terrorism until they obey the law.
badger5079 4 years ago
how can we obey a law that was made by the same people we are fighting?
it makes no sence.
the UN has no teeth and therefor can not put a firm stand against terrorism because its afraid of the arabs.
this is exacly why this situation is trickey.
zussmann 4 years ago
Hamas does not make international law. Hezbollah does not make international law. There is nothing tricky about it. Israel is not obeying international law but demands that international law is applied to Iraq and Iran. The double standard is obvious. All countries are subject to international law - no exceptions.
badger5079 4 years ago
international law is made by the world. when half the world is either muslim or arab it tends to put the law into perspective.
zussmann 3 years ago
...If Israel were to remove the illegal setlements and the apartheid wall and allow the Palestinians to have Eastern Jerusalem as their capital (with access for all faiths to the holy places) so that the Palestinians could have a viable contiguous state free of all Israeli interference while compensating the Palestinian refugees for their land then I would defend Israel myself.
badger5097 4 years ago
a)the "apartheid" wall isnt built.
b)Palestinians have access to all the holy places of thier religion.
c)no one forced any refugee out. they all left of their own free will. if you do some reaserch you will see im right.
d)its hard being nice to people who kidnap your soldiers, shoot rockets at your towns every day, and enter schools with guns killing your kids.
you seem like an intelagent man, but your knowledge is one sided. learn of both sides, then you shall be smart.
zussmann 4 years ago
a)Lie
b)So will Israelis when Palestine is declared.
c)I have don eresearch and you are deceived or a liar.
d)Hard being nice to people who steal your land and kill your people and deny your right to freedom.
I am merely informed.
badger5079 4 years ago
a)it really isnt built.
b)actually, what you said isnt true. not all holy places to the jews are open to them.
to the Temple Mount for example, the holiest place to judaisem, jews can't enter because theres a mosque on it now. its in the middle of jeruslamen and jews cant pray there. does that make sense to you?
c)i am not deceived. trust me.
d) they were offered a country twice. they refused on both times. thats thier problem.
zussmann 4 years ago
a)Was the apartheid wall that has been shown on the news a mirage?
b)It's under one of Islam's holiest sites in the Palestinian half of Jerusalem. The occupation makes it difficult for Jews to go there...that didn't stop Sharon going there to provoke the second intifada, however.
c)I trust myself more than you.
d)It's kind of your problem too seeing as they are resisting the occupation with violence. Of course Israel could just obey international law and the problem would be solved.
badger5079 4 years ago
a)its kind of like the chinese wall. holes everywhere.
b)its not one of Islam's holiest sites. thats arab propaganda. jerusalem isnt mentioned once in the quaran.
c)I never said you cant trust yourself, what I am saing is that as a part of the conflict, I have more info then you. its all arab propaganda. no arab was kicked out. they all ran of thier own will.
d)if they respond in violence isnt it our right to stop them from hurting us?
to fight back?
think about it.
zussmann 4 years ago
a)So the wall does exist - if there are holes everywhere then why bother with having the wall since it is so bad for Israel's image. Tear it down.
b)If the Muslim community say that their religion nolds the Al-Aqsa mosque sacred then I believe that it is sacred to them. It is not up to you to call it propaganda.
c)How do you know how much info you have an how much propaganda?
d)Dpn't the people of an occupied country have the right to resist?
badger5079 4 years ago
a)the wall is partely successfull in stoping (or at least delaying) terrorists.
b)the quaran speceficly says that israel belongs to no one else but the jews.
and yet, were still in this mess.
c)im an israeli citizen. ive served time in the army. ive been to these places, ive talked to these people, ive seen the results of the conflict with my own eyes.
d)no one, ever, has the right to use violence to get what they want. the palastinians stoped trying to be diplomatic back in the 1920'.
zussmann 4 years ago
a)The wall is illegal because it steals Palestinian land. Obey international law.
b)The Talmud specifically states that the Jewish people should not go uo unto Israel until the end time.
c)This explains your bias.
d)Did the Jews have the right to use terrorism to force the British out of Palestine?..bet you make an exception there.
badger5079 4 years ago
a))im a little in between on the wall thing. We (most israelis) will agree to take it down though the minete that another solution will be found that keeps israel safe.
b)israel is a secular state. palastine isnt going to be one.
c)never said im not. you seem to kmow much of the palastinian side of the conflict. im here to make you see the other side too.
zussmann 4 years ago
a)Building a wall that encloses Palestinian territory creates hatred amongst the Palestinians. They see that Israel is stealing more of their land. Not a recipe for safety for Israel.
b)No work of fiction such as the Koran, the Bible, or the Torah should be allowed to distort or dilute international law.
c)I am biased in favour of Palestinians because they have had their land stolen and are not allowed to be free by a brutal oppressor.
badger5079 4 years ago
a)boombing civilians creates hatred amongst the israelis. They see that palastinians have no regard for life. Not a recipe for safety for palastine.
b)i never said it should be allowed to distort or dilute international law. i just pointed out something.
c) I am biased in favor of israel because they have had thier towns and people boombed by fanatical people who call for thier destruction.
there are 2 sides for every coin.
zussmann 4 years ago
a)True - but Israel is a democracy so they have the ability to change their strategy of oppressing the Palestinians
b)International law is non-negotiable.
c)Far more Palestinians than Israelis are killed in the violence. The Palestinians have had their land stolen and live in poverty and under military occupation by the world's fourth largest military power which is aided financially and militarily by the world's foremost military power.
badger5079 4 years ago
a)why should israel change its policy?
everytime israel trys to come to peace with the palastinians it bites her in the ass. should I remind you that they have a kidnapped israeli soldier?
no matter what israel does, its screwed. the best we could do is minimalize the losses.
b)when half the world is arab and doesnt even think you have a right to exict, International law flies out the window.
zussmann 4 years ago
a)One kidnapped Israeli soldier causes so much fuss. The Palestinians are prepared to give many lives to defeat Israel. Israel winces with every lost soldier. All Israel have to do is leave the Palestinian occupied territories and hand back Eastern Jerusalem to the Palestinians. Any other piecemeal attempts at negotiation will fail.
badger5079 4 years ago
a)"One kidnapped Israeli soldier causes so much fuss" youll be able to talk when your 19 year old son is kidnapped by terrorists and you dont see him for over 2 years.
why does it surprise you that israel will do anything in its power to help its people.
you said it yourself, the palastinians dont care if thier men die (after all,who cares HOW the job was done?), but for every israeli killed the entire country mourns. I think it tells you something about the quallty of the people, doesnt it?
zussmann 4 years ago
again, agian you say "hand back", how can you return something that never belonged to the ones your returning it to.
the palastinians never had control of the land, ever. it is true that they were offered those areas but the said NO. instead of taking the deal that would have given them 90%of the israeli mandate (im counting jorden too) the decided to declare war on the israelis. israel won and won not only all of its territorys but also some that were suposed to be given to the palastinian.
zussmann 4 years ago
b)Less than half the world is Arab. Half of Palestine and Israel is Arab. Only the extremists think that Israel has no right to exist...the Palestinian people will grasp peace when they have freedom. Israel's disobedience of international law is what has got them into such a mess.
badger5079 4 years ago
b)few mistakes
-half the world IS arab. do the count
-only 20% of israel is arab (not counting the strip and gaza. with them its about 35% precent) the other 80% is jewish.
-if you elect an extremist party as your leader (hamas) then your an extremist.
the Palestinian people dont want peace,they want israel. im pro peace talks, but israel as no one to talk to! the palastinian prime minister crys for the destruction of israel on a daily basis!
it takes 2 to tango. it also takes 2 for peace.
zussmann 4 years ago
c) trust me the palastinians arent poor.
when your aided by the entire arab world you tend to get enogh money. the problem is that that money is spent on weapons instead of food. rockets instead of medication. guns instead of books.
but then again why would they spend all that money on the right things when israel gives them for free.
did you know that 90% of the gas and electricity of both the strip and gaza come from israel? has been so for 40 years.
what do we get in return again?
zussmann 4 years ago
c)Israel receives more foreign aid from the U.S. than the rest of the world put together so let's not get hypocritical about this. Tell me - where does Israel get it's water? It gets a lot of it from the West Bank and the Oslo accord reflects Israel's intent to steal the majority of the West Bank's water sources. The Palestinians' lack of infrastructure is purely due to Israeli oppression and occupation.
badger5079 4 years ago
I never said we dont get money, but you make it sound like they dont get money at all.
unfortunatly, on top of our wars we have to fight the rest of the worlds wars. we get mney because our problems reflect on the entire world.
and again, the palastinians get quite a lot of money from Iran and syria these days. they just dont get the money in bills, they get it in guns, ammo and rockets.
zussmann 4 years ago
Israel's problems are of its own making and it has made it's oppression of the Palestinians into a motivation for hatred of the West in Muslim countries due to it's disobedience of international law which it it maintains only by staunch backing from the U.S.
badger5079 3 years ago
I get one majot thing from our debtas, you dont really know much about the conflict. you know dry facts (and not all of them are true.) but you dont know about thier effects in the real world. israel is not a war zone and gaza isnt a concentration camp. I suggest you travel to israel once. not only is this a beautiful country, it will make you much more educated.
please take my advice.
zussmann 3 years ago
I like dry facts.
badger5079 3 years ago
I know, thats the problem.
facts out of context aren't facts.
zussmann 3 years ago
Dry facts are not context-dependent by their very definition.
badger5079 3 years ago
no, you are correct. dry facts are not context-dependent by their very definition. that doesnt make context any less importent.
heres a fact: Hitler was the democraticly elected leader of germany in WWII.
does that fact tells you everything you need to know of Hitler? no, because you need the context of the fact (the context being whaat kind of a madman Hitler was and that is leadership was anything but democratic)
I hope I made my point.
zussmann 3 years ago
To state that Hitler was democratically elected leader of Germany is to advertise your lack of understanding of history. Hitler was not elected chancellor of Germany - he was appointed by von Hindenburg in a back-room deal. This was not an example of being democratically elected.
badger5079 3 years ago
hitler was not elected democraticly, that is corrent.
my mistake didnt come from a lack of knowledge but from a underestimating my debate opponent.
what I meant to say was that hitler was apointed in a democratic country. since every comment on youtube only allows 500 chars I thought id skip the entire story and just make my point clear.unfortunatly, I chose the wrong words to describe my intentions.
I apologize for underestimating you. it will not happen again.
zussmann 3 years ago
You see people always try to put dry facts in their proper context - this is an avenue to propaganda and subjectivism. I believe that it is important to stick purely to the facts and tomake sure that they are correct. Do you see how the context you provided about Hitler being a madman and so on was irrelevant to the fallacy of your statement that he was democratically?...because he was not elected democratically at all. Just the facts.
badger5079 3 years ago
do you really belive what you are doing now is not propaganda? you choose the facts and claims that support you idea and so do I. its the way of the world. a man cannot remain objective for long.
the only way to really get the facts is to read both your comments and mine and take it from there.
zussmann 3 years ago
Propaganda, persuasion...it's all the same thing. Free speech. Undoubtedly, I have a pro-Palestinian bias since I keep making their case. This is probably due to my environment and the sum of my life's experiences. As a typical Irishman, I am biased against imperialism and driving native people from their land to make way for a supposedly superior, more deserving people. This also influences my perspective on the validity of insurgency in the face of foreign occupation.
badger5079 3 years ago
you mention you are against imperialism and driving native people from their land to make way for a supposedly superior, more deserving people. I completely agree with you but this has nothing to do with this situation. this is not imperialism and therefor your argument falls. this is the land of our ancestors, the land where we bacame the people we are today, the land that we made what it is. in a way, trying to take the land away from us and giving it to the arabs is just as imperialistic.
zussmann 3 years ago
The seed of imperialism is the belief that your own culture and way of life issuperior andshould be considered a gift to the people that you occupy - the fruit of imperialism is ethnic cleansing. Palestine/Israel may have been the historic homeland of the Jews but they were only a tiny minority there for 2,000 years. In the meantime, the indigenous population developed as majority Arab. So the right of Jews to take the land back from these Arabs/Palestinians by force is debatable.
badger5079 3 years ago
The majority of Arabs came in from other lands AFTER Jewish immigration started at the turn of the 19th century.
TeachESL 3 years ago
The people now known as Palestinians have lived in Palestine for centuries. The Ottoman Empire controlled the land up to the early 20th century and the land was majority Muslim/Arab up to the Nakba. Zionist ethnic cleansing and war was used to create the Jewish-controlled Israel where previously the majority were Arab - fact.
badger5079 3 years ago
@badger5079 And Jews have been here for more than 3,000 years - FACT
TeachESL 1 year ago
@TeachESL
and the Canaanites who were the original occupiers of the land of Palestine were ethnically cleansed by the Jewish invaders. It says so in the Torah/Old Testament.
badger5079 1 year ago
@TeachESL Well true but as a MINORITY.. it would be like Blacks starting their own country in USA..
BozkurT187 1 year ago
Israel is not the only land that made the Israelis the people they are today. The vast majority of Israelis are descended from the Jewish diaspora with influences from all over the world. It is a kind of arrogance to say that the Jews made Israel/Palestine what it is without recognising that the creation of Israel necessitated the displacement and refusal of the right of return to the indigenous Arabs/Palestinians. It's as if you are trying to erase the identity of the Palestinians.
badger5079 3 years ago
Dry facts are facts without emotional residue...I realise that one can only aspire to this abstract notion, especially when discussing the Israel-Palestinian conflict but it is a worthy aspiration.
badger5079 3 years ago
c)Israel receives more foreign aid from the U.S. than the rest of the world put together so let's not get hypocritical about this. Tell me - where does Israel get it's water? It gets a lot of it from the West Bank and the Oslo accord reflects Israel's intent to steal the majority of the West Bank's water sources. The Palestinians' lack of infrastructure is purely due to Israeli oppression and occupation.
badger5079 4 years ago
you want to know where israel gets its water?
well its like this:
30% of it comes from the kineret, which is the biggest lake in israel.
another 70% comes from underground reservoirs.
we have no reason to take water from the bank.
1)they have no water. the entire area gets its water from a river we own.
2)there is water in the coastal area.
The Palestinians' lack of infrastructure is purely due thier spending of money on suicide boombers and not education or construction.
zussmann 4 years ago
Israel is facing a water crisis and it has strongly considered bringin in water in supertankers from Turkey. This is why Israel is trying to take control of most of the West Bank's water supplies.
badger5079 3 years ago
I really dont know what your talking about. thats just not true. we do have a lack of water, but no one onsidered bringin in water in supertankers from Turkey. and the west bank has kes water then we have. most of the bank is dessert, by the way.
zussmann 3 years ago
Just google it. It is easy to find out about recent plans that the Israeli government had to bring in water from Turkey. The West Bank's water sources are being monopolised by Israeli settlers who should not be there according to international law.
badger5079 3 years ago
a)you can find a lot of crap on google. I wont take everything as solid fact.
b)I was wrong. a deal was made. I did not know about it. thank you for letting me know.
the deal has since been suspended. if you would have looked on the 3rd website on google you would have found it out yourself.
d)again, the west bank is almost all dessert!
it has no water!
e)the article has no mention of the west bank-israel water thing. dont give new spins on true facts. please stick to only facts.
thank you
zussmann 3 years ago
a)Check the Jerusalem Post May 11th 2006. Don't hide from the truth.
b)I know the deal was suspended. If you read my words I said a deal was "strongly considered".
d?)Two words - Mountain Aquifer
e)Which article are you referring to?
badger5079 3 years ago
a)as I said, it did happen, you were right.
b)the Mountain Aquifer is one of the biggst problems israel has in her battle for peace. Mountain Aquifer sits at one of the most disputed lands on earth and the situation is so complicated no matter what I say it wont do the situation justice. what I can say is that while the base of it is in the west bank it does naturaly flow into israel.
c)im referring to the article you referrd me to on google.
zussmann 3 years ago
The Mountain aquifer is mainly in the West Bank...so the West Bank does have a water source that Israel needs. The reason Israel is so worried about water supplies is because much of Israel is arid and the neighbouring countries are enemies of Israel because of the illegal occupation of the Palestinian trerritories so they will not supply water to Israel.
badger5079 3 years ago
thats not entirely true.
a)again, the Mountain aquifer flows naturaly into israel and only because of that it is used. in the past, the palastinians have tried to deflect it so it wont go into israel. that is why israel controls it.
b)the neighbouring countries have the same water problem as we do.
zussmann 3 years ago
a)Israel takes the majority of the water from the mountain aquifer which is primarily located in the Palestinian territories leaving the Palestinians with water shortages
b)Iraq, Turkey and Egypt have water surpluses.
badger5079 3 years ago
a) israel takes water only from the part of the mountain aquifer that is in israel. it has prevented though the changing of the mountain aquifer' route that was being attempted by the palastinians.
the palastinians are free to use the mountain aquifer, but they keep trying to change its route. thats why it is under israeli control.
zussmann 3 years ago
b)
Iraq- really? you want israel to get water from iraq?
siriously?
Turkey- weve been there before. lets not go there again.
Eygpt- in terms of water sources, eygpt only has the nile as a source. most of its land is pure sand and dessert and the niles water only reaches about 20% of eygpt. the dont have enogh water to supply themselves so they cant afford to supply us.
zussmann 3 years ago
So your argument is because it is a little difficult for Israel to get water from its neighbours because of its own stubborness (in the case of Turkey) or its generally aggressive foreign policy towards its neighbours that this is reason enough for Israel to slice and dice the Palestinian territories (that it OCCUPIES) as it wishes? This is no more than imperialism.
badger5079 3 years ago
c) the neighbouring countries dont recognze israel for one reason. they wont Acknowledge israel ecause if the do, there basicly saying that israel has a right to exict as it did 2000 years ago, and therefor deserves control of the land the had 2000 years ago.
zussmann 3 years ago
Israel was not a very happy little country 2,000 years ago due to imperialist oppression by the Roman Empire. The Palestinians are the ones who are being oppressed today. There was no international law 2,000 years ago, merely the law of the jungle or dog eat dog. Unfortunately Israel seems to believe that this law is superior to international law, especially when Israel is so strong.
badger5079 3 years ago
if thats the case and Israel believes that the strong should survive then hasnt it slaughterd the palstinians? you have already pointed out that we dont listen to international law and that we definatly have the power to do so.
ill tell you why we dont. its pretty simple. we dont want to. everyone has a right to live, no matter what race or religion hes from. that would never change and thats what the israeli goverment and the israeli people belives.
the peace talks happening now are proff.
zussmann 3 years ago
You want to know why Israel doesn't just eliminate the Palestinians since it has no respect for international law and adheres to the policy of dog-eat-dog? Simple..it's because there is a bigger dog which Israel relies on for protection and approval and funding and support - the U.S.
badger5079 3 years ago
first of all, we dont rely on the US. both countrys get something from this friendship.
we get money and aid in arenas like the UN where we are up against forces much greater then us and they get someone to fight thier wars for them.
people keep saying that if israel stops getting aid from the US it will fall. what makes you thing its not the other way aroud as well?
and if this really is a co-depandent situation then they wouldnt stop us.
think about it.
zussmann 3 years ago
What does the U.S. get from its alliance with Israel? It must be something very worthwhile since it seems to have been part of the reason for 9/11 according to bin Laden. I simply do not see what the U.S. gets for its $3-4.5 billion per year. The force of international law is what Israel is up against in the UN and unfortunately, it has been proven time and again that this force is nowhere near strong enough to oblige Israel to obey international law. (Count the U.S. vetoes pertaining to Israel)
badger5079 3 years ago
what does the US get from its alliance with Israel? not much. only israels best intel and information, every one of israels technological andvancements (and theres a lot!), highst rated weapons and milatry developments. and lets not forget the fact that is get a connection with the only real democracy in the region.
and lets not talk money. the americans spend more money in a month in iraq (where they use technoladgy developed by israel) then they do on israel in a year.
zussmann 3 years ago
and no one said we were happy 2000 years ago. the jewish people have always had enemys and the arabs arent the first to try and take this place from us. this has always been a shitty little piece of land in the middle of nowhere but that doesnt change the fact that this is the land of my ancestors, a land the jewish people have lived in for over 5000 years, the land on which I grew up and raised to be the man I am today. and for that, I will protect it for the rest of my life.
zussmann 3 years ago
You are obviousy patriotic about the land west of the Jordan - why are you so surprised that the Palestinians would feel the same about their home?
badger5079 3 years ago
im not surprised at all that they are patriotic. and im even OK with them being patriotic. trust me, there is nothing israel wants more then a palastinian country (that is not on israeli land of course and thats undersandable).
what I dissagree with is thier actions and attepts at getting that coveted country.
when you target civilians you show a deep disregard for humen life or ethical actions. and that is something I cant or ever will understand.
zussmann 3 years ago
Israel has only offered partial sovereignty to the Palestinians. They have offered them Palestinian cantons divided by Israeli land. Also, the Zionist negotiating position is one of: "what's mine is mine - what's yours we can be negotiate about". If you had suffered foreign occupation as the Palestinians have, you might understand, if not condone the terrorists. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.
badger5079 3 years ago
is a man entering a resturaunt in tel aviv and blowing up in the name of his people and in the process kills little kids a freedom fighter in your eyes?
be carful with your words.
and do you really want to talk to a jew about foreign occupation? our history is filled with foreign occupation.
zussmann 3 years ago
Whether a man is seen as a freedom fighter or a terrorist depends very often upon propaganda and political convenience. I would call a man who lills civilians intentionally a murderer. If he does it to create terror to achieve a political aim then he is a terrorist. There is terror on the Palestinian side and terror on the Israeli side. One side uses Qassam rockets and suicide bombers - the other uses tanks raids, house demolitions and aerial strikes.
badger5079 3 years ago
The Jewish diaspora were not occupied. The last time the Jews were occupied for any considerable time was when Judaea was occupied by the Roman Empire. Was the Roman Empire justified in occupying Judaea? No, in my opinion. Is Israel justified in occupying the "occupied territories"? Again, I would say no.
badger5079 3 years ago
Judea and Samaria are occupied - by the Arabs.
TeachESL 3 years ago
Why can you not just admit that the Mountain Aquifer lies in large part in the West Bank? Look at the maps..
badger5079 3 years ago
I never said it doesnt. I also said