Matthew Chapman and A.C. Grayling vs. Dinesh D'Souza and David Wolpe

[Titus7of9]

This was a terribly moderated debate. The moderator cut each side's speakers off right before they were about to make their concluding statements.

[positivedignity]

or perhaps stealing their own resources or the capacity to to earn for subsistence in order for them to become impoverished and will rely all their hopes to empty doctrines of eternal life. thus... these impoverished people go to religion and those who robbed them their wealth are providing back the things they stole on the first place.

[positivedignity]

Higher CD4 count you mean?

Anyway... the rabbi just did cherry-pick the good part of religion.

BUT ... isn't that religion stole the dignity of humanity by making humanity fallen beings and the only redemption is money making money sacramentals?

[igorpanov1]

@positivedignity A true and honest believer in Christ will not abuse his/hers religion to make money. Also, I dont agree that belief in God shows lack of dignity. I think the opposite is the truth. I see the worth/ value of men kind when Jesus died on the Cross to redeem humanity. That to me shows the worth of men. Now, if you by dignity mean pride, then yes, one must humble him/her self in order to accept help, in this case from God.

[TRZbebop675]

Lame debate. Moderator sucks.

[spockck]

@TRZbebop675 its amazing actually

[jessc1979]

Even though I'm for the motion, I was totally disappointed by that side. Rabbi Wolpe was right to be frustrated. At least his side came up with data (whether it's right or wrong). Ok, they had some bad arguments, but the 'For the Motion' side only had anecdotes and philosophy.

I wished we had a historian on our side. Hitchens did some of that but his examples were mostly anecdotal too.

Where's the counterargument to Wolpe's claim that most wars have nothing to do with religion, etc? Sigh...

[jessc1979]

@jessc1979 Yeah, definitely shocked that my side won. The opposition were at least on point and had examples (whether they were good or bad is a different discussion).

[niekerk58]

great debate !

[cliffandy]

Although having an audience vote adds some energy to the debate, as far as the result is concerned, only if the audience were half atheist and the other half not, would its outcome be useful. At the end, I think most of the audience was more concerned with getting to their car than relishing the outcome of their button push. If you've ever been to an evening speaking engagement - such as this - I'm sure you get my meaning.

[ChollieD]

@cliffandy Not sure whether the outcome of the debate would be "useful" in any case. Of what use could it be put?

But the debate is won based on the CHANGES in the votes (votes after minus votes before). This suggests to me that the pre-existing biases of the audience are subtracted out.

Of course, more rigorous polling could probably be conducted (e.g., private voting booths for each audience member), but who cares? It's just a debate.

[Jblod240]

I also notice how the moderator turns to the proponents first almost exclusively. And more than half of the audience was in the proponent category to begin with. If your an atheist and faced with these realities in reverse you would rightly be crying foul.

Just point of order based on the outcome of the debate.

[Jblod240]

I guessed the outcome of this debate correctly the moment the audience clapped at the panel introductions:

"...great grandson of Charles Darwin."

- animated applause

"...the dean of Kings College."

- polite clapping

...moving (allegedly) only 12% of a already tiny audience. Politics are never checked at the door.

[Kome1]

Grayling is, as always, in top form. Chapman was perhaps a little too sarcastic at points but still enjoyable to listen to. D'Souza was a whiny little child that was physically painful to listen to, and Wolpe was a churlish prick more often than he was arguing any rational point.

[Nwidmann]

@Kome1

fail

[Nwidmann]

@Kome1

fail

[cliffandy]

@Kome1 With comments/attitude such as yours, those who you side with would never want to know you. Have some self-respect before you place your fingers on your keyboard.

[ldoooooggggg]

Another great debate... thanks!!

[TheDebateDatabase]

@ldoooooggggg Anytime :)