Seems more akin to actual combat, street fight, theat to life combat, or whatever you want to call it, thus being a more suitable way to train for real combat.
There is no way to compare two different worlds (reality basd vs MMA), although they could learn from each other. I experienced both and as a human movement scientist studied both worlds. From that perspective I have to say that Guided Chaos is truly a effective well-rounded system. If anyone is interested I could try to explain my interpretation of the motoric learning process I discovered in this system, which are very innovative in my opinion. drs. Jan Bloem, The Netherlands
@JanBloem I would gladly hear your explanation, sir. I practice chen taijiquan and systema, and I'm interested in researching about freeform training, since I believe it has a higher learning curve than fixed pattern training... shame there isn't a guided chaos school here in italy, I would gladly give it a try! send me a message if you want to share your knowledge. Regards
Wow looks like u can drive someone crazy with this style, lol. I want to see it in a MMa fight, any skilled system will work in the street, if ur aware of the surroundings, and fight back hard and don't freeze up. Street fighters rely primarily on their rear hands, whether its right or left.
I wont say it's ineffective, and art like this just doesnt suit me. At the end of the day, the art is only as good as the artist. From my angle, i doesnt look as though there is a system of striking involved, it looks like uncontrolled slugging. But i've never studied guided chaos so i wount really understand. Peace :D
@etphonehome, yes we agree it looks ineffective and looks like bad Systema/Wing Tsun. The difference is....Guided Chaos is quite possibly the most effective self defense method on the market. We train with and have trained people from practically every background so feel free to stop in and participate in a class.
@SkeltonProductions Absorb or skim the incoming shot to deliver your own simultaneously which is a one-step process, faster and more efficient than block/counter punch (2 steps).
It is very true but unbelievably simplistic. Any style worth its salt says that. The difference is 1-How do you stop the other guy from hitting you just as hard and 2-how do you get your "f-ing hard" strikes past his defenses? The correct answers are what really defines an effective method.
the thought process seems simaular to Russian systema in term of no techniques but principles and concepts
not sayin it is russian systema just it is simular
considering the founders background being a ex cop realises there is always some one bigger badder and younger and that they don't play fair it is no wonder it is simular
The russians learned allot of chinese martial arts and japanese arts, and even persian arts. So its not very strange that systema is almost the same as tai chi. All chinese arts are based on principles and concepts, healing cooking painting, home decorating, gardening etc
Many Chinese gangs use wingchun, please don't don't say other peoples arts are not real, because the ones you listed have been around for quite some time... If they didn't work, they would have noticed when everyone that knew it was killed in combat back in the day... They have set techniques, but they are not set in stone moves, often you use the concept behind the techniques rather then the techniques itself.
@GuamKomudo I agree. Effectiveness is mostly determined by 1) the individual practicing the art 2) the quality of the particular school and its expression of its particular style. Many schools have watered down, distorted or simply misunderstood the original methods of the style's original creator. It obviously worked well for ithem.
I've trained with Eskrima, Silat, Wing Tsun and Tai Chi instructors. This is nothing like them. If you felt it you'd know instantly. The biggest difference is that they all teach patterned techniques and patterned motion. This does neither; it teaches only spontaneous motion.
I see many similarities between "Guided Chaos" and Koryu Uchinadi Kenpo-Jutsu. Both consist of flow drills and a multitude of situational outcomes that can be practiced along with the flow drills. The argument that I have counter to the views of that of "Guided Chaos" is that any well disciplined Martial Artist CAN perform an ordered technique in a chaotic situation.
whats the difference from this and just, well...simple all out street fighting? aside from mabey gaining endurance from all that movement i dont see why it would be considered training if there is no form to train with...i can become an instructer just by saying my street fighting abilities are an art of sorts...
I dare you to come into a school and say you're prepared to be an instructor based on your street fighing ability. You will be so embarrassed that I doubt you'd ever be heard from again.
It sure can, so long as the guy you're fighting isn't willing to rush in and clinch or tackle you, which is why we don't advocate it for self defense. As well, you gotta be a tough S.O.B. as well as a dummy to accept sparring and getting unnecessarily knocked up side the head when you could learn how to fight with a more efficient and complete method. But again, to each his own.
That's like saying you can get good at basketball by just doing tip drills, ball handling exercises, and freethrows; and not actually playing basketball. Its just ridiculous.
Why the hell would the acclaimed developer of this system, and therefore considered an "expert" on this style of self-defense, lift his foot in the air like he's doing dancing? That's the dumbest thing you can do. You might as well save your opponent some trouble (as well as yourself some pain) and intentionally fall down. Sorry, but if this is what you consider good drilling for "self-defense" then you' guys have another thing coming. I'll put you on your ass if you hold your leg in the air
You're severely misinformed when it comes to fighting mechanics. We do drilling so that we have superior one legged balance. So much so that the majority of us have better balance on one leg than many martial artists have on two. In addition, when you drop your weight for a split second over ONE or TWO legs when someone rushes in to take your balance or strike, they'll literally impale themselves because for a split second your skeleton will be perfectly aligned to direct force into the ground.
the heavy overweight guy is really unbalanced especially when he does that lazy mock kick/foot in the air. I know he is only got a short amount of time bfore he is pooped. Heavy duty philosophzing and constant i'm telling you so doesn't work for me. I have studied wing chun for years, tai chi for 18 years, muay thai and I am now at the age of 52 studying MMA. Your stuf is good for a novice but for an experienced fighter it can;t work. Good buisness promo though.
Your observations are noted but everyone is going to filter what they see thru their experience (provided you actually have the experience you say you do.) Your telling us it's bogus doesn't work for us either. We extend a friendly welcome for you to visit and feel the stuff first hand to remove all doubt. We have many high level wing chun, tai chi and MMA students who find our approach useful and liberating. Hope to see you.
what style of Tai Chi does your kwoon offer? *bows* Studied some Yang for about 2.5 year as well as Nothern Shaolin and Wing Chun. Btw a very diplomatic response to the comment from flancka. Best way to open mind is to have them experience your way. Have a good one.
Although we use internal principles similar to what might be found in tai chi, bagua and hsing-i (and we say that to give people a frame of reference, not to explain its origin), our system was Made in the USA and actually has more in common with Native American fighting arts.
No trapping go on here lad. What you describe as being viable close quarters fighting was debunked by John Perkins many, many years ago and practically any 1st degree black belt in Guided Chaos can easily nullify what you speak of as well. I do understand you're basing everything on your limited experience, but it's a new day and we don't live in a static world.
You don't practice flowing simply for the sake of doing so. You flow so that in a real fight, at that split second you effectively yield or glide around strikes or pressure in order to close distance on your way IN to delivering multiple drop strikes to vital targets. A flowing movement may only occur for a split second in a fight. As a result of understanding this, our training method is many times more efficient for self defense/close quarters fighting than methods taught in combat sports.
Guided Choas system realises that in a realistic fight ur bound to get hit, therefor after that period you are to unleash hell on ur opononent, gouge his eyes, attack the neck and other vital points till they are unable to fight back...
"BS, then again, I know how the system works because I used to train in internal chinese martial arts, where you use no energy and more grounding and looseness. It only works for the instructors teaching it, not students. In fact this reminds me of systema or other soft martial arts, without the WWII combatives it wouldn't work. I've read the book and I now take krav maga because I don't like nonsense, rather simplicity."
Explain why people trained in WWII combatives CANNOT make it work against us. Also, why can't the people trained in soft martial arts make their movements work against us? And we're talking about people who in some cases have been training for decades. Sometimes it's easier to tear something down instead of doing a thorough investigation and finding truth.
What you say about students is only true in the sense that the GC portion can't be learned overnight like many of the WW2 movements.
Whoa, you read a BOOK??? You MUST know everything there is to know about it then. . . . Sheesh.
Hey! I read several books on Krav. They were filled with so many set technique sequences to memorize and practice that I can't see how anyone could call it simple. . . . None of the several Krav instructors and students I've met have been able to execute any of their "simple" stuff effectively while I GC'd them.
Ahhh this good 'ol Krav maga again... It's the modern day Jeet Kune Do. (read: Fad, Magic miracle solution, ultimate fighting system, will get you laid and make your breath smell better...)
When it comes to fighting, EVERYTHING is theory.
Guided Chaos is interresting for it's realistic approach, but that doesn't means it's THE anwser.
Like all trainings, styles, it is just a TOOL to help you in becoming a better scrapper. To quote Bruce: "It's just a name, dont fuss about it"
The reason why most modern systems no longer teach "trapping" is that when people REALLY fight in that range, someone inevitably, instinctively, grabs the other person. That's why wing chun and t'ai chi is out of vogue, and greco clinch is the going paradigm for close range these days.
Get a good two-on-one or underhook and suddenly none of this works, the guy's eating hooks and knees.
Note that this is nothing like "trapping" as it's taught in wing chun, JKD, etc. (I taught wing chun for years.)
Your assumption runs contrary to all of our experience with plenty of experienced wrestlers as well as simply big and tough folks. Yeah, they TRY to grab and control, but because we've trained to react to such contact spontaneously with disengagement and powerful striking while remaining balanced and loose, they get nailed like a billion times while getting knocked off balance.
What you say is true of Wing Chun and Tai Chi because they usually don't properly train a synthesis of all the principles required to make internal movements work in real combat. With Guided Chaos, we've completely turned the entire paradigm on its head. Clinching, grappling and wrestling are irrelevant and don't work when you train the way we do. Stop by and train with us one day and you'll feel it yourself. Just don't tell us what your username on You Tube was.
I prefer a skilled and experienced teacher to an "art" for the sake of it's name any day. What happens during your moment of truth is what matters most not what art was used.
How bout a hard, rooted and body unified open hand palm heel to the head? It matters not what weapon you use as long as your hand isn't in a negative position where it can break on contact. It's the way your body is aligned on contact.
However, an open hand creates more disruption the same way it does when you slap the surface of water. The fist will plunge straight in without disturbance. The open hand will cause the water to splash all over the place.
99% of people aren't trained to deliver a full power right hook without breaking their wrist and/or hand. Real fighters know that. Very impractical self defense. The hand and wrist have many small bones that act as shock absorbers that steal power. With a palm heel, the hand sits right on top of the arm bone with a direct power connection. Plus, anyone can do it under adrenaline. Also, almost anyone can palm heel a brick wall without injury. Try that with your fist.
a martial artist develops, he/she improves their physical skills as well as mental attitude towards perfecting his chosen art. But even this is still very basic, real martial arts are not even in this dimension, all the great martial artist have very developed spiritual awareness. Mind, Body and Soul, perfect all 3 and you will be a real master.......
JKDLIFER, I know what you mean about training no longer being about fighting. However, I think that as a martial artist, one should never loose focus on the goal of dominating the brutality of the fight. With all that said, most blocks to getting better at fighting for real are mental and not physical. Especially after the first couple of years of training.
these our observations and may not be seen as the same with others. The further I progress in my training the more I realize that it is no longer about fighting for me. Some people in JKD and other martial arts don't understand this concept yet and that's ok.
So if my opinions seemed biased, maybe I'm not expressing myself correctly as I only seek knowledge through constructive criticism/discussion.
I understand your viewpoint now. In any of my previous posts, I never intended on insulting anything here or anyone in particular but rather ad my observations. Granted, there are things that I may not agree with as there are things about my viewpoints that you may not agree with.However, I try to keep an open mind about things. Naturally we are all human beings and when we see or experience something that trully speaks to us, we want to share it with others sometimes not realizing that (contd)
By the way arikandel2002, I don't appreciate the scarcasm. My philosophies aren't based on dreams. They are combat tested. Read about them my friend. Don't make dumb assumptions about me as you sound foolish.
Seek your own truth as I continue to seek mine. I merely commented on my observations but I never intended any disrespect nor do I think any was received.
I was seeking an intelligent discussion with people that share a slightly different view of the world than I do. That's all.
My apologies. I wasn't meaning to be sarcastic nor insulting. The "dreams" comment is actually a quote from Shakespeare, and all it was intended to say was that there really is stuff going on here that is outside the purview of your experience/understanding. That's all. I was not at all trying to insult your experience or ideas. I'm sure they're hard-learned and at least partly tested. However, experience in one field does not necessarily qualify one to judge another. (Con'td)
For example, how can you judge someone's combat-applicable balance just by watching them? All the people in this clip have far better combat-applicable balance on one leg than the vast majority of people have on two legs. They prove this easily in person all the time. I believe (I could be wrong) that you may have a bias against things that don't look like things you've personally experienced. Understandable--I used to be the same way. (Cont'd)
I had lots of experience in JKD, MMA, Wing Chun, and other martial arts. As Guided Chaos looked different, I could not accept it by viewing and reading about it because it was too far outside my experience. However, when I finally encountered it in person, everything changed. I 98% guarantee the same will happen to you, and you'll smack your head and laugh (as I do now) when you think about your previous opinions of Guided Chaos based on no actual experience of it.
Co-signs. After a while of training with 100s of martial artists patterns start to emerge as you realize that the vast majority of MA training is simply inadequate for the close quarter non-sportive movements we engage in. That's not my opinion either, it's cold reality. Where others start grappling because they don't have room to strike, we are still able to continue striking with EXTRAORDINARY power. No way of seeing this in the videos.
JKDLIFER, that would be great. One important thing though. Don't just sit in. The only way you'll appreciate what we do is if you actually participate and really try to work your techniques on us.
Come and train with us. Many of your philosphies on fighting will be forever altered. There is no realistically workable dynamic of trapping. Also, I myself have worked with many Wing Chun people and not one has ever taken my balance. I mean that not in a disrespectful way as I think we are philosophically in agreement.
There are things in this art that are very profound and the fighters that it breeds are simply devastating. You should read into some of the life experiences of it's founder John Perkins.
2 fighters walk into a ring and decide to fight. Fighter 1 throws his hands up in a boxing type stance. fighter 2 immediately crashes, clears his hands out of the way and crushes his throat...easy.
He'll never accept that as evidence. However, it can't be argued that if you have 2 fighters of equal skill, 1 using WW2 Close Combat and the other using sportive style boxing, the former will survive the conflict practically every time.
WW2 close combat just by itself goes right through boxing on the first clash. After that if he ain't done you just keep hammering the attacker until he is.
Effective. Not my style, but effective. What I do is a combination of Wing Chun, Tai Chi sword, Savate, and european fencing techniques. With an umbrella. My specialty is the one inch punch, from three and a half feet.
Very nice. I especially appreciate the 'unscripted' nature of this drill. As a matter of curiousity, do you rely on more traditional types of practice to teach the body movements shown here? Or do you solely practice the free form?
The basic weaponry are strikes from World War II era close quarters combat delivered from anywhere to anywhere. No traditional patterned movements are taught. Instead, exercises meant to develop Balance, Body Unity, Looseness, Sensitivity & Adaptivity are trained.
So, you develop a 'form' without a form. I teach an art that practices very similar to this in many respects, but we approach it from the idea that we may begin in a pattern or scripted movement and strike drill, but we do not stay there. Thanks for the post!
It's freestyle push hands in the most abstract form--no form--but the "spirit" of the internal arts push hands is there. Never seen in it in a fight though. Seems easy for it to turn into a slapping contest.
The video demonstrates like all reality based self defense should that to survive the street you have to train for the street. I enjoyed this video, but than I like sticky hands and pushing hands. So many years after Bruce Lee's tragic death people are still discovering the concepts he tried to explain. Every way can get you lost which is why he made his own path.
Interesting, I've seen kung fu people do something similiar. But, how well could you stay in that form, with that concentration if someone punched you hard, in the face several times? In my training, I was hit several times by a decent boxer (with gloves and, head gear) and, did not want to close the distance as a result. I guess I could have waited for his attack, to try some trapping, or clinch work, but getting hit that hard was a big reality check.
You avoid it by something called Sensitivity training where you never lose contact with your opponent's weapons. It's like a mix of tai chi push hands and grappling but with a much lighter and more reactive touch. You've got to feel it to understand it but it becomes very difficult to get hit because you feel it before you even see it, without using a "defensive counter-technique."
You talk about "REAL" fights? John Perkins - the creator of this art - is a veteran of over 200 documented (and countless undocumented) bloody street battles, including both armed and unarmed, working as a First Responder to Violent Crimes in Progress in one of the USA's toughest neighborhoods. As for grabbing, grabbing back is not the most effective response. So, what's your point?
2. Plus, in this KCD exercise there were a couple of knees to groin which you apparently missed, even though it was at half-speed. Plus, KCD employs head butts and every other imaginable strike. Educate yourself by visiting attackproof(dot)com before making ignorant comments.
i agree, staying away and landing shots will win a fight. If its self defense you want they should one thing, hit first,hit fast and get the hell outat there. I have been a few street fights and one thing is certain, nobody just stands there and lets you hit them that many times.
Yeah i hear ya, but maybe a bit more 'sticking' to the opponent may also help in redirection/damaging/striking them....... have you got any more indepth video/torrents to download or view?
You may not be able to see it but they are actually sticking at all times--there's a huge difference between being overcommited and pushing (which gives a stronger opponent a virtual "roadmap" of your intentions) and light contact which keeps them on your radar screen but off theirs. New clips in a few weeks.
I believe this guy is on the right track, way better than fixed 'hard' styles....... they seem not to have explosive power though....... check out the "yang mian" style here yangmian dot com just to get an idea what i am sayin.......
You're correct, there's no explosive or penetrating strikes demonstrated here because the object of this exercise (and it's only an exercise) is to maintain a continuous flow of relatively equal speed and energy so the practitioners can develop they're Sensitivity, Spontaneity and Adaptability. Pure power is another exercise.
Real fights are always clumsy and chaotic because they never go as planned and we try to take that into account in our training. Please come and work out with us if you get a chance, we would be honored.
this is half-ass done chi sao, fake, I've been training my whole life in tai chi, jujutsu, and jeet kune do, no self-respecting advanced martial artist would have such clumsy movements
Good point, however having had many wing chun training partners, their emphasis tends to be more yang, while KCD is more yin (like tai chi and bagua). Groundfighting is very important.
Ving Tsun, and many other Kung Fu styles that have a premise based upon utilizing the whole body as the fist displacing the body of the opponent simultaneous attack and defense using jing, yang yin etc. please respond
well, um..Subtly i was asking are these factors integrated in this science. have you considered or was aware of these crucial elements. this theory is a small portion of the door technique
These are all vitally important. In Guided Chaos we train at least 6 principles: Balance, Pliability, Body Unity, Sensitivity, Reactive Freedom (anything goes) and Dropping Energy (similar to jing or what we believe Wayson Liao refers to as "cold power" in tai chi.
well, in order to aid my question i veiwed the grappling vs knife attack. i know people whos hands are just as deadly and in a frey of chaos. the kicks delivered to ward the attack is the principle as they are rooted from the ground stopping the flurry dead. same as the bodyas fist.
Very similar to Wing Chun's chi sao, same chinese martial arts principle. Before one criticize this, you must realize that this is simply 1 of many stages of combat. To be a good fighter you must be comfortable at every stage. Hence MMA is so big nowadays.
these are excercises we train to. It is the only way to learn and feel how to disable the opponent at short range. In my martal art shaolin kempo, we always fight at short range.
Of course they use their feet (even sometimes on the ground IF you fall--just look at the other clips). But real fights rarely go as planned...how do you train if they DO get that close? Grappling is one option. And when was the last time you saw a "coordinated fight" (except in the movies)?
best way to win a fight is not to fight if you let your opponant do all the work you;ll win
bigjoshfromthenorth 4 months ago
watch joe louis highlights for some great hand skills
coldsoulschmidtbull 7 months ago
almost like chi sao but in a wild way lol
backdraft1420 8 months ago
Seems more akin to actual combat, street fight, theat to life combat, or whatever you want to call it, thus being a more suitable way to train for real combat.
kainai2099 8 months ago
There is no way to compare two different worlds (reality basd vs MMA), although they could learn from each other. I experienced both and as a human movement scientist studied both worlds. From that perspective I have to say that Guided Chaos is truly a effective well-rounded system. If anyone is interested I could try to explain my interpretation of the motoric learning process I discovered in this system, which are very innovative in my opinion. drs. Jan Bloem, The Netherlands
JanBloem 10 months ago
@JanBloem I would gladly hear your explanation, sir. I practice chen taijiquan and systema, and I'm interested in researching about freeform training, since I believe it has a higher learning curve than fixed pattern training... shame there isn't a guided chaos school here in italy, I would gladly give it a try! send me a message if you want to share your knowledge. Regards
ghegozi 3 weeks ago in playlist Uploaded videos
Wow looks like u can drive someone crazy with this style, lol. I want to see it in a MMa fight, any skilled system will work in the street, if ur aware of the surroundings, and fight back hard and don't freeze up. Street fighters rely primarily on their rear hands, whether its right or left.
poohpoohcaca 1 year ago
I wont say it's ineffective, and art like this just doesnt suit me. At the end of the day, the art is only as good as the artist. From my angle, i doesnt look as though there is a system of striking involved, it looks like uncontrolled slugging. But i've never studied guided chaos so i wount really understand. Peace :D
freijaful 1 year ago
This is beautiful to watch! Spam that replay button!
Jinjoooo 1 year ago
This is beautiful to watch! The only good parts are 0:00 - 0:50
Jinjoooo 1 year ago
Not sure what ya supposed to be doing.
sifuoddjob 1 year ago
@etphonehome, yes we agree it looks ineffective and looks like bad Systema/Wing Tsun. The difference is....Guided Chaos is quite possibly the most effective self defense method on the market. We train with and have trained people from practically every background so feel free to stop in and participate in a class.
UniversalStandards 1 year ago
Sorry, but this is the worst I have ever seen.. It looks like bad wing tsun....
etphonehome2915 1 year ago
@SkeltonProductions Absorb or skim the incoming shot to deliver your own simultaneously which is a one-step process, faster and more efficient than block/counter punch (2 steps).
mattkovsky 1 year ago
I'll summarise self defense for you in one phrase: "Learn how to hit f--cking hard."
swordofmanjushri 2 years ago
It is very true but unbelievably simplistic. Any style worth its salt says that. The difference is 1-How do you stop the other guy from hitting you just as hard and 2-how do you get your "f-ing hard" strikes past his defenses? The correct answers are what really defines an effective method.
mattkovsky 2 years ago
the thought process seems simaular to Russian systema in term of no techniques but principles and concepts
not sayin it is russian systema just it is simular
considering the founders background being a ex cop realises there is always some one bigger badder and younger and that they don't play fair it is no wonder it is simular
NewZealfighter 2 years ago
The russians learned allot of chinese martial arts and japanese arts, and even persian arts. So its not very strange that systema is almost the same as tai chi. All chinese arts are based on principles and concepts, healing cooking painting, home decorating, gardening etc
YipManneke 2 years ago
this makes more sense to me. in all the fights i've witness, they were random, unpredictable and chaotic.
unattributed 2 years ago
All fighting should be natural.
The human brain does not like forms or stylised techniques.
Fairbairn spent a lifetime taking the crap and useless out.
Wing Chun,eskrima ect,just put the crap back in and claim it to be effective in real life situations.
However, their victories in real life do not support their misguided training!
universalclosecombat 2 years ago
Many Chinese gangs use wingchun, please don't don't say other peoples arts are not real, because the ones you listed have been around for quite some time... If they didn't work, they would have noticed when everyone that knew it was killed in combat back in the day... They have set techniques, but they are not set in stone moves, often you use the concept behind the techniques rather then the techniques itself.
GuamKomudo 1 year ago 2
@GuamKomudo I agree. Effectiveness is mostly determined by 1) the individual practicing the art 2) the quality of the particular school and its expression of its particular style. Many schools have watered down, distorted or simply misunderstood the original methods of the style's original creator. It obviously worked well for ithem.
mattkovsky 1 year ago
@GuamKomudo thank you man, I believe the same thing, if it wasn't effective, it wouldn't have stood the test of time
Kirin9 1 year ago
I've trained with Eskrima, Silat, Wing Tsun and Tai Chi instructors. This is nothing like them. If you felt it you'd know instantly. The biggest difference is that they all teach patterned techniques and patterned motion. This does neither; it teaches only spontaneous motion.
mattkovsky 2 years ago
I see many similarities between "Guided Chaos" and Koryu Uchinadi Kenpo-Jutsu. Both consist of flow drills and a multitude of situational outcomes that can be practiced along with the flow drills. The argument that I have counter to the views of that of "Guided Chaos" is that any well disciplined Martial Artist CAN perform an ordered technique in a chaotic situation.
Gwisss 2 years ago
whats the difference from this and just, well...simple all out street fighting? aside from mabey gaining endurance from all that movement i dont see why it would be considered training if there is no form to train with...i can become an instructer just by saying my street fighting abilities are an art of sorts...
pecorino69 2 years ago
I dare you to come into a school and say you're prepared to be an instructor based on your street fighing ability. You will be so embarrassed that I doubt you'd ever be heard from again.
UniversalStandards 2 years ago
This is awesome, as a practitioner of Aikido and Qi Gong i understand the principles where can i find teachers of this art.
Jimmijett7 2 years ago
Yes usually it takes an internal art practitioner to understand... Go to attackproofDOTcom
mattkovsky 2 years ago
It sure can, so long as the guy you're fighting isn't willing to rush in and clinch or tackle you, which is why we don't advocate it for self defense. As well, you gotta be a tough S.O.B. as well as a dummy to accept sparring and getting unnecessarily knocked up side the head when you could learn how to fight with a more efficient and complete method. But again, to each his own.
UniversalStandards 2 years ago
That's like saying you can get good at basketball by just doing tip drills, ball handling exercises, and freethrows; and not actually playing basketball. Its just ridiculous.
RebelWrestler45 2 years ago
Yeah, it's just as ridiculous for you to use the poor basketball analogy to summarize what I said. You have NO IDEA what you are talking about.
UniversalStandards 2 years ago
Why the hell would the acclaimed developer of this system, and therefore considered an "expert" on this style of self-defense, lift his foot in the air like he's doing dancing? That's the dumbest thing you can do. You might as well save your opponent some trouble (as well as yourself some pain) and intentionally fall down. Sorry, but if this is what you consider good drilling for "self-defense" then you' guys have another thing coming. I'll put you on your ass if you hold your leg in the air
kommisar 2 years ago
You're severely misinformed when it comes to fighting mechanics. We do drilling so that we have superior one legged balance. So much so that the majority of us have better balance on one leg than many martial artists have on two. In addition, when you drop your weight for a split second over ONE or TWO legs when someone rushes in to take your balance or strike, they'll literally impale themselves because for a split second your skeleton will be perfectly aligned to direct force into the ground.
UniversalStandards 2 years ago
Also as I've already said, don't take my word for it. Either go to a class or seminar and feel it for yourself.
UniversalStandards 2 years ago
the heavy overweight guy is really unbalanced especially when he does that lazy mock kick/foot in the air. I know he is only got a short amount of time bfore he is pooped. Heavy duty philosophzing and constant i'm telling you so doesn't work for me. I have studied wing chun for years, tai chi for 18 years, muay thai and I am now at the age of 52 studying MMA. Your stuf is good for a novice but for an experienced fighter it can;t work. Good buisness promo though.
flancka 2 years ago
Your observations are noted but everyone is going to filter what they see thru their experience (provided you actually have the experience you say you do.) Your telling us it's bogus doesn't work for us either. We extend a friendly welcome for you to visit and feel the stuff first hand to remove all doubt. We have many high level wing chun, tai chi and MMA students who find our approach useful and liberating. Hope to see you.
mattkovsky 2 years ago
what style of Tai Chi does your kwoon offer? *bows* Studied some Yang for about 2.5 year as well as Nothern Shaolin and Wing Chun. Btw a very diplomatic response to the comment from flancka. Best way to open mind is to have them experience your way. Have a good one.
Bastion83 2 years ago
Although we use internal principles similar to what might be found in tai chi, bagua and hsing-i (and we say that to give people a frame of reference, not to explain its origin), our system was Made in the USA and actually has more in common with Native American fighting arts.
mattkovsky 2 years ago
very interesting.
Bastion83 2 years ago
interesting...kinda like a untamed wing chun
yungjabba0 3 years ago 2
Exactly like Free flowing Wing chun that you go at a set speed and u dont speed up or slow down...
dronin87 3 years ago
No trapping go on here lad. What you describe as being viable close quarters fighting was debunked by John Perkins many, many years ago and practically any 1st degree black belt in Guided Chaos can easily nullify what you speak of as well. I do understand you're basing everything on your limited experience, but it's a new day and we don't live in a static world.
UniversalStandards 3 years ago
Would you keep flowing freely once you were hit. "Evrey one's got a plan till they get hit"
Rx198xxx 3 years ago
You don't practice flowing simply for the sake of doing so. You flow so that in a real fight, at that split second you effectively yield or glide around strikes or pressure in order to close distance on your way IN to delivering multiple drop strikes to vital targets. A flowing movement may only occur for a split second in a fight. As a result of understanding this, our training method is many times more efficient for self defense/close quarters fighting than methods taught in combat sports.
UniversalStandards 3 years ago
Guided Choas system realises that in a realistic fight ur bound to get hit, therefor after that period you are to unleash hell on ur opononent, gouge his eyes, attack the neck and other vital points till they are unable to fight back...
dronin87 3 years ago
Post by thisismynames but without the obscenity--
"BS, then again, I know how the system works because I used to train in internal chinese martial arts, where you use no energy and more grounding and looseness. It only works for the instructors teaching it, not students. In fact this reminds me of systema or other soft martial arts, without the WWII combatives it wouldn't work. I've read the book and I now take krav maga because I don't like nonsense, rather simplicity."
mattkovsky 3 years ago
Explain why people trained in WWII combatives CANNOT make it work against us. Also, why can't the people trained in soft martial arts make their movements work against us? And we're talking about people who in some cases have been training for decades. Sometimes it's easier to tear something down instead of doing a thorough investigation and finding truth.
What you say about students is only true in the sense that the GC portion can't be learned overnight like many of the WW2 movements.
UniversalStandards 3 years ago
Whoa, you read a BOOK??? You MUST know everything there is to know about it then. . . . Sheesh.
Hey! I read several books on Krav. They were filled with so many set technique sequences to memorize and practice that I can't see how anyone could call it simple. . . . None of the several Krav instructors and students I've met have been able to execute any of their "simple" stuff effectively while I GC'd them.
arikandel2002 3 years ago
Ahhh this good 'ol Krav maga again... It's the modern day Jeet Kune Do. (read: Fad, Magic miracle solution, ultimate fighting system, will get you laid and make your breath smell better...)
When it comes to fighting, EVERYTHING is theory.
Guided Chaos is interresting for it's realistic approach, but that doesn't means it's THE anwser.
Like all trainings, styles, it is just a TOOL to help you in becoming a better scrapper. To quote Bruce: "It's just a name, dont fuss about it"
Thunderhouse2 3 years ago
The reason why most modern systems no longer teach "trapping" is that when people REALLY fight in that range, someone inevitably, instinctively, grabs the other person. That's why wing chun and t'ai chi is out of vogue, and greco clinch is the going paradigm for close range these days.
Get a good two-on-one or underhook and suddenly none of this works, the guy's eating hooks and knees.
BlowjobLessons 3 years ago
Note that this is nothing like "trapping" as it's taught in wing chun, JKD, etc. (I taught wing chun for years.)
Your assumption runs contrary to all of our experience with plenty of experienced wrestlers as well as simply big and tough folks. Yeah, they TRY to grab and control, but because we've trained to react to such contact spontaneously with disengagement and powerful striking while remaining balanced and loose, they get nailed like a billion times while getting knocked off balance.
arikandel2002 3 years ago
What you say is true of Wing Chun and Tai Chi because they usually don't properly train a synthesis of all the principles required to make internal movements work in real combat. With Guided Chaos, we've completely turned the entire paradigm on its head. Clinching, grappling and wrestling are irrelevant and don't work when you train the way we do. Stop by and train with us one day and you'll feel it yourself. Just don't tell us what your username on You Tube was.
UniversalStandards 3 years ago
I would prefer Kenpo, Wing chun, Boxing, Muay Thai, Kun Tao, Silat, and Kali.
schaelakhan 3 years ago
I prefer a skilled and experienced teacher to an "art" for the sake of it's name any day. What happens during your moment of truth is what matters most not what art was used.
skywalkr2000 3 years ago 2
How bout a hard right hook. Slappin won't get you out of that one.
jimkennedy369 3 years ago
How bout a hard, rooted and body unified open hand palm heel to the head? It matters not what weapon you use as long as your hand isn't in a negative position where it can break on contact. It's the way your body is aligned on contact.
However, an open hand creates more disruption the same way it does when you slap the surface of water. The fist will plunge straight in without disturbance. The open hand will cause the water to splash all over the place.
UniversalStandards 3 years ago
99% of people aren't trained to deliver a full power right hook without breaking their wrist and/or hand. Real fighters know that. Very impractical self defense. The hand and wrist have many small bones that act as shock absorbers that steal power. With a palm heel, the hand sits right on top of the arm bone with a direct power connection. Plus, anyone can do it under adrenaline. Also, almost anyone can palm heel a brick wall without injury. Try that with your fist.
mattkovsky 3 years ago
a martial artist develops, he/she improves their physical skills as well as mental attitude towards perfecting his chosen art. But even this is still very basic, real martial arts are not even in this dimension, all the great martial artist have very developed spiritual awareness. Mind, Body and Soul, perfect all 3 and you will be a real master.......
springdubai 3 years ago
Very well put springdubai. This is exactly where I find myself at this moment. I am starting to see the world very differently than before.
It's nice to see someone else with this kind of awareness.
JKDLIFER 3 years ago
We are in agreement on this subject.There's just so much to be said on the topic that sometimes words aren't enough to explain it.
JKDLIFER 4 years ago
Absolutely agreed. However, how does it become more than physical? Through physical conditioning.
It is like a saying that I've heard at my school but I'm not sure where it comes from..
"years of training for seconds of excecution".
I train everyday, so that if I need it, it is there.
In my training I have been reminded by my instructors to fight ferociously. Overwhelm your opponent. Never stop.
JKDLIFER 4 years ago
JKDLIFER, I know what you mean about training no longer being about fighting. However, I think that as a martial artist, one should never loose focus on the goal of dominating the brutality of the fight. With all that said, most blocks to getting better at fighting for real are mental and not physical. Especially after the first couple of years of training.
skywalkr2000 4 years ago
these our observations and may not be seen as the same with others. The further I progress in my training the more I realize that it is no longer about fighting for me. Some people in JKD and other martial arts don't understand this concept yet and that's ok.
So if my opinions seemed biased, maybe I'm not expressing myself correctly as I only seek knowledge through constructive criticism/discussion.
JKDLIFER 4 years ago
I understand your viewpoint now. In any of my previous posts, I never intended on insulting anything here or anyone in particular but rather ad my observations. Granted, there are things that I may not agree with as there are things about my viewpoints that you may not agree with.However, I try to keep an open mind about things. Naturally we are all human beings and when we see or experience something that trully speaks to us, we want to share it with others sometimes not realizing that (contd)
JKDLIFER 4 years ago
By the way arikandel2002, I don't appreciate the scarcasm. My philosophies aren't based on dreams. They are combat tested. Read about them my friend. Don't make dumb assumptions about me as you sound foolish.
Seek your own truth as I continue to seek mine. I merely commented on my observations but I never intended any disrespect nor do I think any was received.
I was seeking an intelligent discussion with people that share a slightly different view of the world than I do. That's all.
JKDLIFER 4 years ago
JKDLIFER,
My apologies. I wasn't meaning to be sarcastic nor insulting. The "dreams" comment is actually a quote from Shakespeare, and all it was intended to say was that there really is stuff going on here that is outside the purview of your experience/understanding. That's all. I was not at all trying to insult your experience or ideas. I'm sure they're hard-learned and at least partly tested. However, experience in one field does not necessarily qualify one to judge another. (Con'td)
arikandel2002 4 years ago
For example, how can you judge someone's combat-applicable balance just by watching them? All the people in this clip have far better combat-applicable balance on one leg than the vast majority of people have on two legs. They prove this easily in person all the time. I believe (I could be wrong) that you may have a bias against things that don't look like things you've personally experienced. Understandable--I used to be the same way. (Cont'd)
arikandel2002 4 years ago
I had lots of experience in JKD, MMA, Wing Chun, and other martial arts. As Guided Chaos looked different, I could not accept it by viewing and reading about it because it was too far outside my experience. However, when I finally encountered it in person, everything changed. I 98% guarantee the same will happen to you, and you'll smack your head and laugh (as I do now) when you think about your previous opinions of Guided Chaos based on no actual experience of it.
arikandel2002 4 years ago
Co-signs. After a while of training with 100s of martial artists patterns start to emerge as you realize that the vast majority of MA training is simply inadequate for the close quarter non-sportive movements we engage in. That's not my opinion either, it's cold reality. Where others start grappling because they don't have room to strike, we are still able to continue striking with EXTRAORDINARY power. No way of seeing this in the videos.
UniversalStandards 4 years ago
NY is a little far for me as I'm in Miami,FL.
That's quite a drive!lol
But if I'm ever in NY I wouldn't mind sitting in on a class.
JKDLIFER 4 years ago
JKDLIFER, that would be great. One important thing though. Don't just sit in. The only way you'll appreciate what we do is if you actually participate and really try to work your techniques on us.
UniversalStandards 4 years ago
I wouldn't mind at all. Where is the school located?
I have my own thoughts and revelations regarding combat but I'm always open to new possibilities.
About the balance thing...
I don't always refer to wing chun in my trapping. Although effective at times there are other ways that I prefer.
JKDLIFER 4 years ago
Nanuet or Hastings NY.
attackproof(dot)com/CLASSES-IN-real-self-defense(dot)html
mattkovsky 4 years ago
I love watching flowing drills. I'm not too familiar with this one but there might something to take from it.
However, I don't like the foot work. I find that you're off balance alot and center line I see is exposed sometimes.
I have my preferences for trapping but those are my own.
Like I said maybe there is something to be learned in this.
JKDLIFER 4 years ago
Come and train with us. Many of your philosphies on fighting will be forever altered. There is no realistically workable dynamic of trapping. Also, I myself have worked with many Wing Chun people and not one has ever taken my balance. I mean that not in a disrespectful way as I think we are philosophically in agreement.
UniversalStandards 4 years ago
There are things in this art that are very profound and the fighters that it breeds are simply devastating. You should read into some of the life experiences of it's founder John Perkins.
skywalkr2000 4 years ago
There are more things in heaven and earth, JKDLIFER, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
arikandel2002 4 years ago
Why don't you just try running away ? Most people don't run that much quickly, especialy big muscular men (too much heavy)...
lepivert 4 years ago
what about when you're old?
skywalkr2000 4 years ago
2 fighters walk into a ring and decide to fight. Fighter 1 throws his hands up in a boxing type stance. fighter 2 immediately crashes, clears his hands out of the way and crushes his throat...easy.
skywalkr2000 4 years ago
He'll never accept that as evidence. However, it can't be argued that if you have 2 fighters of equal skill, 1 using WW2 Close Combat and the other using sportive style boxing, the former will survive the conflict practically every time.
UniversalStandards 4 years ago
How is this for proof, since close combat is an old military system there are actually over 1000 "certified kills"
skywalkr2000 4 years ago
I don't know where you can verify this. It may be true but can't be cross referenced.
UniversalStandards 4 years ago
Ask John
skywalkr2000 4 years ago
WW2 close combat just by itself goes right through boxing on the first clash. After that if he ain't done you just keep hammering the attacker until he is.
skywalkr2000 4 years ago
Effective. Not my style, but effective. What I do is a combination of Wing Chun, Tai Chi sword, Savate, and european fencing techniques. With an umbrella. My specialty is the one inch punch, from three and a half feet.
Phantomsbreath 4 years ago
Very nice. I especially appreciate the 'unscripted' nature of this drill. As a matter of curiousity, do you rely on more traditional types of practice to teach the body movements shown here? Or do you solely practice the free form?
CTDjevin 4 years ago
The basic weaponry are strikes from World War II era close quarters combat delivered from anywhere to anywhere. No traditional patterned movements are taught. Instead, exercises meant to develop Balance, Body Unity, Looseness, Sensitivity & Adaptivity are trained.
mattkovsky 4 years ago
So, you develop a 'form' without a form. I teach an art that practices very similar to this in many respects, but we approach it from the idea that we may begin in a pattern or scripted movement and strike drill, but we do not stay there. Thanks for the post!
CTDjevin 4 years ago
Very effective. I can see the raw application and technique.Cool free form
pandorasox 4 years ago
this has nothing to do with combat tai chi or any other traditional martail art.
OneRoomSchoolHouse 4 years ago
It's freestyle push hands in the most abstract form--no form--but the "spirit" of the internal arts push hands is there. Never seen in it in a fight though. Seems easy for it to turn into a slapping contest.
bajovato 4 years ago
The video demonstrates like all reality based self defense should that to survive the street you have to train for the street. I enjoyed this video, but than I like sticky hands and pushing hands. So many years after Bruce Lee's tragic death people are still discovering the concepts he tried to explain. Every way can get you lost which is why he made his own path.
DamoBenson 4 years ago
Interesting, I've seen kung fu people do something similiar. But, how well could you stay in that form, with that concentration if someone punched you hard, in the face several times? In my training, I was hit several times by a decent boxer (with gloves and, head gear) and, did not want to close the distance as a result. I guess I could have waited for his attack, to try some trapping, or clinch work, but getting hit that hard was a big reality check.
MrPotatoesLatkie 4 years ago
You avoid it by something called Sensitivity training where you never lose contact with your opponent's weapons. It's like a mix of tai chi push hands and grappling but with a much lighter and more reactive touch. You've got to feel it to understand it but it becomes very difficult to get hit because you feel it before you even see it, without using a "defensive counter-technique."
mattkovsky 4 years ago
Interesting Chi sao type exercise, err ... but in a REAL fight apart frm knee to groin, grabbing will take place, head butt etc, come on please!!
Gero1967 4 years ago
You talk about "REAL" fights? John Perkins - the creator of this art - is a veteran of over 200 documented (and countless undocumented) bloody street battles, including both armed and unarmed, working as a First Responder to Violent Crimes in Progress in one of the USA's toughest neighborhoods. As for grabbing, grabbing back is not the most effective response. So, what's your point?
jerryknuck 4 years ago
2. Plus, in this KCD exercise there were a couple of knees to groin which you apparently missed, even though it was at half-speed. Plus, KCD employs head butts and every other imaginable strike. Educate yourself by visiting attackproof(dot)com before making ignorant comments.
jerryknuck 4 years ago
i agree, staying away and landing shots will win a fight. If its self defense you want they should one thing, hit first,hit fast and get the hell outat there. I have been a few street fights and one thing is certain, nobody just stands there and lets you hit them that many times.
stevefeb19 4 years ago
Yeah i hear ya, but maybe a bit more 'sticking' to the opponent may also help in redirection/damaging/striking them....... have you got any more indepth video/torrents to download or view?
paulie1975 4 years ago
You may not be able to see it but they are actually sticking at all times--there's a huge difference between being overcommited and pushing (which gives a stronger opponent a virtual "roadmap" of your intentions) and light contact which keeps them on your radar screen but off theirs. New clips in a few weeks.
mattkovsky 4 years ago
I believe this guy is on the right track, way better than fixed 'hard' styles....... they seem not to have explosive power though....... check out the "yang mian" style here yangmian dot com just to get an idea what i am sayin.......
paulie1975 4 years ago
You're correct, there's no explosive or penetrating strikes demonstrated here because the object of this exercise (and it's only an exercise) is to maintain a continuous flow of relatively equal speed and energy so the practitioners can develop they're Sensitivity, Spontaneity and Adaptability. Pure power is another exercise.
mattkovsky 4 years ago
so, not as to argue the point but, to better understand the exercise and its benefits.
opticannon 4 years ago
it's an excercise which started as fighting like capoiera...
lasucks 4 years ago
Real fights are always clumsy and chaotic because they never go as planned and we try to take that into account in our training. Please come and work out with us if you get a chance, we would be honored.
mattkovsky 4 years ago
this is half-ass done chi sao, fake, I've been training my whole life in tai chi, jujutsu, and jeet kune do, no self-respecting advanced martial artist would have such clumsy movements
allnamestook 4 years ago
why are you so outraged by this video? obviously you are trying to say something that ways on your heart.
opticannon 4 years ago
Good point, however having had many wing chun training partners, their emphasis tends to be more yang, while KCD is more yin (like tai chi and bagua). Groundfighting is very important.
mattkovsky 4 years ago
Ving Tsun, and many other Kung Fu styles that have a premise based upon utilizing the whole body as the fist displacing the body of the opponent simultaneous attack and defense using jing, yang yin etc. please respond
opticannon 4 years ago
Sure, what is your question?
mattkovsky 4 years ago
well, um..Subtly i was asking are these factors integrated in this science. have you considered or was aware of these crucial elements. this theory is a small portion of the door technique
opticannon 4 years ago
These are all vitally important. In Guided Chaos we train at least 6 principles: Balance, Pliability, Body Unity, Sensitivity, Reactive Freedom (anything goes) and Dropping Energy (similar to jing or what we believe Wayson Liao refers to as "cold power" in tai chi.
mattkovsky 4 years ago
well, in order to aid my question i veiwed the grappling vs knife attack. i know people whos hands are just as deadly and in a frey of chaos. the kicks delivered to ward the attack is the principle as they are rooted from the ground stopping the flurry dead. same as the bodyas fist.
opticannon 4 years ago
Very similar to Wing Chun's chi sao, same chinese martial arts principle. Before one criticize this, you must realize that this is simply 1 of many stages of combat. To be a good fighter you must be comfortable at every stage. Hence MMA is so big nowadays.
jhualexc 4 years ago
I thought so too (Wing Chung Chi Sao).
These seem to be drill to get a feeling for balance and your oponents power.
FRA65 4 years ago
these are excercises we train to. It is the only way to learn and feel how to disable the opponent at short range. In my martal art shaolin kempo, we always fight at short range.
kussej 5 years ago
Of course they use their feet (even sometimes on the ground IF you fall--just look at the other clips). But real fights rarely go as planned...how do you train if they DO get that close? Grappling is one option. And when was the last time you saw a "coordinated fight" (except in the movies)?
mattkovsky 5 years ago
Of course they're just slapping, it's a demo. Real fights, real palm heels and real axe hands are more dangerous
mattkovsky 5 years ago
lol looks like their just slapping in my opinion.
Xkluzive 5 years ago