Amy-Jill Levine: Reassessing Jewish-Christian Relations

[aerycksmusic]

I love the imagery of the two train tracks merging into one when we look with divine vision. The New Testament reading of the second chapter of Ephesians celebrates this idea as fulfilled in the following words, 'For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility ....' (Eph. 2:14-16) Shalom.

[aerycksmusic]

Shalom, she brings tears to my heart.

[EAW83ALW]

Thought provoking and intelligent. Only two issues:

1) I have a problem with putting one's self above Scripture. Levine does that.

2) Her closing "vision" has this flaw - yes, the tracks converge in the distance. But if one were to actually follow those tracks to their destination, one would find that, in truth, they do not converge, and the station is only on one side. I don't believe we can have it both ways. There is absolute truth, and it just may be that only 1 of those rails is right.

[Brydon72]

Amy-Jill Levine presents these issues with sensitivity and compassion, what a pity that some of the subscribers on this page have to resort to the usual anti-semitic nonsense about the Talmud. Ignorance upon ignorance.

[aerycksmusic]

@Brydon72 - I agree.

[excelsior544]

@Brydon72

Amen and amen!!!

Disciples of Christ liberal striving to save Christianity from fundamentalism!

[raysoflightdlt]

What was flagged as spam was my response to LordAquila! It was sent to my e-mail! I responded! Thank you!

[raysoflightdlt]

Jesus loves the Jewish people with the greatest love! I love the Jewish people! God chose the Jewish people to bless the world! Abraham was willing to give his son's life to God as a sacrifice. God stopped him! God wanted to see how much Abraham loved Him! Instead, of Abraham giving his son, God chose to give His only begotten Son, that the world would have the opportunity to be saved from their sins! Jesus died for the Jewish people and the Gentiles, because He loves both!

[LordAquila]

@raysoflightdlt

God make a covenant with the Israelites (not the "Jewish people", certainly not the Talmudic Khazars of New York City), since Christ the covenant has existed in the Church.

[walesruels]

Fantastic speaker, a very knowledgeable lady! (From an evangelical Christian).

[NickConte66]

I just want to point out how annoying her accent is. And that little 'smack lip' sound she makes all of the time. If you didn't notice it before you will now.

[sidecrank]

I don't need a professor to tell me Christ message, 'Love Your Enemy'. Some thing quite at difference to Jewish teaching.

[sidecrank]

What is a Jew doing as professor of the New Testament? Surely according to the Talmud they hate Christians?

[Judel100]

@sidecrank You're a moron. What you call the "New Testament" is a disparate bunch of texts written at different times (Paul's epistles are at least half a century older than the Acts) by men who WITHOUT EXCEPTION self-identified as jews (Paul boasts of being a student of the great first century rabbi, Gamaliel I). The books of the NT are shot through with references to Torah and the Writings and contains numerous passages in Aramaic, the lingua franca of 1st century jews. Get an education fool.

[sidecrank]

@Judel100 'Love your enemy' messed up the agenda,yes?

[Judel100]

@sidecrank Yeah, I'm sure Deuteronomy 10:19 ( וַאֲהַבְתֶּם, אֶת-הַגֵּר: כִּי-גֵרִים הֱיִיתֶם, בְּאֶרֶץ מִצְרָיִם) messes up your white supremacist agenda...

[kiwiiisland]

Scholars have no idea what the true meaning of wisdom is.

So - any opinion you may have upon wisdom are distorted and/or incomplete (If not false.)

I challenge you to correct me if I'm wrong.

[deepmind]

(Oh why am I even bothering?)

She says about 13 mins in, that Judaism "as we know it" & Christianity emerged in the Second Temple Era, ergo they are more siblings than parent/child.

What about the hundreds of years of Judaism that came before that era? Was that merely a prolonged gestation period in her mind?

Christianity only came into being when the body of the parent Judaism became infected & dissolute, thereby giving birth to a bastard child. That seems more accurate to me.

[johnsmdm]

@deepmind ...hi douchebag racist sir....

[deepmind]

@johnsmdm Of those 4 words, I get the impression you only know the definition of the word "hi". "Douchebag" is at best just childish, nothing I said had ANYTHING to do with "race", & it's a total sham to couch your rude small-mindedness with the phony politeness of your "sir".

Shalom

[jaymurtii]

@deepmind thank you.

[Mr007jessejames]

Acts 2

37 When they heard this, they were pierced to the heart and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles: "Brothers, what must we do?" 38 "Repent," Peter said to them, "and be baptized, each of you, in the name of Jesus the Messiah for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

"We know for sure Peter was speaking mainly to Jews that day. So, yes Jews and Gentiles need baptism and works by faith"

[resnoex1]

Just another zionist cristian with a far rigth agenda,she is another aipac agent.

Why there is no cristian muslin alliance?

Jews using cristians for their zionists wars.

[IAMJESUSmovie]

Jesus Christ has returned. I AM.

[muckbluvid]

This is typical liberal vs. fundamentaist ping pong. I'll rest my case, and although I honestly think you underestimate God's charity, I wish you the best in all things. I think what we believe is not nearly as important as our loving service to the present and coming kingdom.

[stoomart]

By the way, there are many things you have said that I have and will continue to consider and really hope to be able to attend your presentation at NCU on the 24th.

[stoomart]

There is good reason Christians hold the doctrine of Sula Scriptura. It is not that we feel tradition and commentary is worthless, it's just we do not hold it to the same authority as scripture. In Mark 7, Jesus addresses this very clearly by saying "in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men." and "making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered".

[muckbluvid]

Simplifying the ultimate mysteries in such uncharitable ways--condemming "others" to hell if they don't share a certian belief. Consider the context of Jesus' claim to be the only Way: Stressing the SPIRIT of Jewish Law over both the letter of the law and the Roman/pagan way--infanticide, etc.) of that particular time and place may have been the point rather than condemming the Chinese to eternal damnation owing to time/place accidents of birth. And relevant to good Jews--can we spell AGAPE?!!

[TommyGDub]

Truth is a relative term that you fundamentalists like to throw around frequently. The fact of the matter is that you have no right criticizing a Muslim's personal "religious experiences" any more than a Jew's or a Taoist's because you have no substantive claim supporting your assertion that your interpretations of dogma and Scripture are, in fact, the only interpretations of dogma and Scripture. Ironically, this kind of conclusive argument is more likely to put off skeptics than convince them.

[DiscipleoftheWord]

@TommyGDub

If truth is a "relative term" your own statement implodes since it is merely subjective relativism and can hold no objective truth.

Since truth is relative your comment can have no relevance on any issue.

Your view of tolerance fails as well since you yourself cannot tolerate any views other than your own.

Tolerance is just that, tolerant, of which you are not.

Your own position is as flawed fundamentality as the ideas you attack.

[TommyGDub]

Thank you, Discipleof theWord, for attacking me with the sort of flawed pseudo-logic I've come to associate with right-wing fundamentalists. Who even said that truth exists? Why does there HAVE to be a truth besides the one you make for yourself? And thank you for making this exceptionally personal - I never said anything about what I believed, I merely drew attention to the inconsistencies and hypocrisies I've personally encountered with Christian fundamentalism.

Thank you for your response.

[DiscipleoftheWord]

Your dogma is as clear as the fact that you believe you are correct.

You indeed have made clear that you "believe" you are correct in your understanding of fundamentalism.

So indeed you have stated a belief.

If objective truth does not exist then the warrant of your argument has no validity.

[TommyGDub]

I'm confused. You don't know WHAT I believe, except for the fact that I don't believe in Christian fundamentalism. I never said I was right about anything - as a Christian fundamentalist, I assume that's something YOU can declare enough for the both of us. But I will absolutely stand up and refuse, with every fiber of my being, from suspending rational thought to embrace a fundamentalist religion. I don't have to believe what you believe. And to assume that you understand my "dogma" is arrogant.

[DiscipleoftheWord]

"I'm confused" is the first logical statement you have made.

[TommyGDub]

Gee. You'll have to forgive me if I don't cry over that zinger. Thank you for allowing for the same sort of open-mindedness and fruitful discussion I've come to expect from Christian fundamentalists - NONE.

[DiscipleoftheWord]

I see you have left the sphere of relativistic truth and assumed an objective position.

If truth is relative and you are tolerant then my comments should in no way offend you. They cannot be true and you would tolerate them.

Isnt it funny how tolerance isnt so tolerable when your views are under assault?

[TommyGDub]

See, now you're trying to twist and pervert my stance. I could care less WHAT you believe. I just don't want you trying to force it on me. But, again, I guess I shouldn't expect anything different from a fundamentalist. Logic already works against you, so your only hope of winning a debate is to manipulate what your opponent says. Funny how the most devout Christians end up being the most subversive, conniving, and monstrous.

Have a great day!

[DiscipleoftheWord]

The first sign a person has lost all logical argument in themselves is when they take a swing at you.

[TommyGDub]

Well, that's what you did - grasping at straws, are we?

[DiscipleoftheWord]

I'm glad you returned.

You never answered the question.

What if your wrong about Christianity and the claims and teachings of Christ Jesus?

[DiscipleoftheWord]

"You don't know WHAT I believe, except for the fact that I don't believe in Christian fundamentalism."

Here's a paradox.

Do you believe that you "don't believe" in Christianity?

[TommyGDub]

No - as I said. I don't believe in Christian fundamentalism. I believe in evolution. I don't believe in the literal inerrancy of Scripture. If there were, there wouldn't be conflicting accounts of the Resurrection story in the four Gospels alone.

Funny how you're trying to punch a hole in my beliefs, while I haven't criticized yours in the least. Now who's being inconsiderate?

[DiscipleoftheWord]

Well now, another student of Peter Jennings and the Jesus Seminar.

Have you done an expository or hermeneutical study of the ressurection accounts?

Have you concerned yourself with textural criticism?

Would you like to study the text with me and look to the works of credible scholars as to whether they are contradictory or complementary?

Or are you satisfied with giving the truth all the consideration of ordering off the value menu at MacDonalds?

[TommyGDub]

In re-reading your post, I think what you said was INCREDIBLY rude. I never said I don't tolerate Christian fundamentalism. I've tolerated it my whole life as a former Southern Baptist; it's just that, after careful study, I no longer believe the dogma. I believe that people who believe the same way I do should be allowed to have intelligent discussion without being inundated with threats of damnation and condemnation. That's not intolerance.

[DiscipleoftheWord]

Define tolerance.

[TommyGDub]

How do you know you're not wrong? What if the Qu'ran is the actual path to salvation? In that case, you're screwed.

[muckbluvid]

The author or authors of John have the antagonistic Jews of the day symbolize the "world" of which Jesus Kingdom is not of. These opponents of "the Way" are not representing the enire race of "Jews" from whom the world's first ethical religion originated. Salvation, and Rabbi Jesus, are from the Jews, praise God!!

Jesus message to the Jews thus perhaps was not for them to to turn Christian but to become better Jews!

[muckbluvid]

The Jews? Which Jews? Jesus was a Jew and so were the first followers of his "Way." The Gospel of John even says "Salvation is from the Jews": 4; 22!! Come on!

[beancube2008]

What can we do? Both of them making up things with God's name.

[thelordrestoresme]

I love her accent and the way she puts an emphasis phoneme "-ew". She speaks quite fairly and knows her stuff.

[nigelium]

jesus is the MESSAIHA THAT YOU NEED TO ACCEPT! BECAUSE THE JEWS DIDN'T ACCEPT JESUS, THE NATION OF ISRAEL WAS DESTROYED IN 70ADish!!! AND THE DIASPORAH BEGAN!!!

DON'T REJECT YOUR KING JESUS! WE ARE IN THE END DAYS WHERE HE WILL SOON RETURN! ISRAEL IS SURROUNDED BY ENEMIES, AS PROPHESIED!

TURN TO THE LORD JESUS CHRIST,

THE SINLESS MAN WHO BORE OUR SINS, WHO BORE OUR TRANSGRESSIONS!

THE OLD WAYS WERE OF FLESH.

GOD IS SPIRIT! ACCEPT JESUS AND RECEIVE THE SPIRIT OF GOD THROUGH BAPTISM!

[JustinOsbore]

God can not do evil because he is Good he can not lie he can not do any thing like this He can not sin. Because He is The everlasting Father.

He did repent from creating men because men ways are evil. The word translated evil is from a Hebrew word that means adversity, affliction, calamity, distress, misery But God gave everyone a free will to choose what they would choice.

[redwine65]

if she finds the text talking about jews in the new testament troubleing, would'nt the same measure find the text about gentiles in the talmud troubleing?

seems to me jews and Christians get along fine these days, allthough we may disagree. I don't see violence comeing from that disagreement these days.

maybe providence removed that

[freakyfridas]

im doing mrs. levine's study in great courses on the old testiment .....i can't bring myself to finish the second half of the study. i prayed before i come to this conclusion.....im not saying it's wrong...im saying it's not for me.

[paulthefan]

She seems thoughtful and honest.

[vivpet122]

How can you call good teaching when she start her lecture by saying that the bible is a fable, Why make a study in something that she doesn't even believe....

[WillIsSoAwesome]

@vivpet122

By this logic, if you believe The Bible is fully & literally true, you're instantly "good teaching". No. A lecture is not defined by the beliefs of the speaker; only by the content itself. If you don't wish to to hear someone of another particular belief, speak on your faith, great. You're going to miss out on a lot of great thought-provoking material too. However, you're in no place to judge it as "good" or "bad" teaching when you reduce the lecture to the belief of it's giver.

[mjcants]

A.J. Levine presents a thoughtful talk that is much needed for Christians and Jews.

[vivpet122]

DO NOT LISTEN TO THIS LADY!!!!!

[mjcants]

Why ever not? She makes great sense to me - a

Christian seminarian. Have you heard her Yeaching Company lectures? She is brilliant.

[rlpd82rob]

No Jewish prophets? For that matter, where is the Christian messiah? Where are the swords beaten into plowshares that Isaiah promised would accompany the messiah? Don't try and point to the inner Christian life. The evidence is in: Christians have been just as violent, unjust, and rapacious as any people on earth. No more so, perhaps, but certainly no less so. The kingdom within seems pretty rare over the past 2000 years. The God of Christianity seems silent to me. Yasher Koach Dr. Levine

[marioburrito]

Was that your attempt to sidestep my questions? I was not pointing to the inner Christian life. I was simply pointing out the inaccuracies of you lecture.

[marioburrito]

Matt. 21:5; John 12:15; Rem. 9:33; 11:26; Heb. 12:22; 1 Pet. 2:6) serves to highlight this victory, for Zion is the special "holy mountain" of Jerusalem, the symbol of God's presence with His people and His victorious reign over the earth, when all kingdoms are gathered together to serve Him in the New Covenant( c f . Ps. 9:1-20; 14:7; 20:1-2; 48:1-14; 69:35; 87:1-3; 99:1-9;

102:13-22; Isa. 24:21-23; 51-52; 59:16-20; Jer. 31:10-37; Zech.

9:9-17).

[marioburrito]

"But as for Me, I have installed My King upon Zion, My

holy mountain," guaranteeing that the nations will submit to

His all-embracing rule. In opposition to the Beasts rising from

Sea and Land, the Lamb is standing (cf. 5:6) on Mount Zion, already

enthroned as King of kings, the Ruler of all nations. The

Mountain-imagery of the Bible is clearly a reference to the original

Holy Mountain, the location of the Garden of Eden (Ezek.

28:13-14). The prophetic promises of the restoration of the

[marioburrito]

Mountain to the earth (Isa. 2:2-4; Dan. 2:32-35, 44-45; Mic.

4:1-4), as well as the numerous redemptive activities on mountains

(Gen. 22:2; Ex. 19:16-19; 2 Chron. 3:1; Matt. 28:16-20), signified

the fulfillment and consummation of Paradise through

the Messiah's atonement, when God's Kingdom would fill the

earth (Isa. 11:9).2 The Lamb standing on the Mountain is a symbol

of Christ's victory over all His enemies, with His people restored

to Eden and fellowship with God. The fact that the

[marioburrito]

Mountain is Zion (mentioned seven times in the New Testament:

Matt. 21:5; John 12:15; Rem. 9:33; 11:26; Heb. 12:22; 1 Pet. 2:6)

serves to highlight this victory, for Zion is the special "holy

mountain" of Jerusalem, the symbol of God's presence with His

[marioburrito]

people and His victorious reign over the earth, when all kingdoms

are gathered together to serve Him in the New Covenant

( c f . Ps. 9:1-20; 14:7; 20:1-2; 48:1-14; 69:35; 87:1-3; 99:1-9;

102:13-22; Isa. 24:21-23; 51-52; 59:16-20; Jer. 31:10-37; Zech.

9:9-17).3

[seanmPWH]

You said one thing correct - the kingdom within seems rare - that's true but it is not non-existent. "Few there will be who find it" just another of Jesus' prophecies that have come true.

[marioburrito]

Great points in reference to Love and the power it brings in accepting other races, cultures, and religions. My concern is that Amy has been sucked into postmodernism. Nothing in the Jewish cannon allows the acceptance of gay and lesbian practice. This does not mean Christians and Jews should not help gays and lesbians in the same Spirit Jesus displayed in John 4:9-29. Nevertheless, stealing, murder, adultery, or homosexuality will never be tolerated as a permanent form of behavior before God.

[marioburrito]

Amy forgot to explain what happened in 70 AD when God uprooted the temple. Why is history repeating itself? Forgot to explain what Jewish People do for the sacrifice of sins. If not animal sacrifices! Have they created their own new laws that somehow don't require a sacrifice? Are there still prophets speaking to the Jewish People? If they are God's chosen people why has He been silent for so long? No history to back Paul up? Read Josephus the JEWISH Historian or Days of Vegeance (David Chilton)

[marioburrito]

Mountain is Zion (mentioned seven times in the New Testament:

Matt. 21:5; John 12:15; Rem. 9:33; 11:26; Heb. 12:22; 1 Pet. 2:6)

serves to highlight this victory, for Zion is the special "holy

mountain" of Jerusalem, the symbol of God's presence with His

[marioburrito]

Could the stubborn disposition that Amy spoke of when referring to Jewish Rabbis' be what Paul, Jesus, Moses and Eli were talking about when referring to the "Jew" or "Pharisee". One only needs to read the Jewish cannon to find that Jewish people have been very disobedient, stubborn and obstonaunt towards Gods requirements, that's not something Christians just pulled out of our hat or our cannon.

[mjcants]

I suspect

that Jews were quite honest in writing the history of their faithlessness. It ia sign of humility before God. That took guts.

[bvlondon]

Powerful. Should be must-see for anyone who's Jewish, Christian, or lives in the same country with anyone like that. What she's talking about is a hundred generations of "sibling squabble", & though she may not be saying 'enough already', she is saying 'at least listen.' Right. Since I can't find more videos, now I have to go get her book.

[mjcants]

Check out her lectures for the Teaching Company.

[mjcants]

Listen again to what she is saying and what she means. Fables and myths do not gainsay the truth of the Bible.

[cgsomlo]

what about pantheism ???

[marioburrito]

Pantheism is not an issue that either Christians or Jews deal with. Both religions are Monotheistic

[TheEvolver311]

i would argue that most christians are actually dualist, they believe in god/jesus/h.spirit and satan. the first is the good, the second is the bad. they don't believe that god creates or does evil, even tho the bible says he did.