This intersection also handles problems much more easily. e.g. power outages, stalled cars, speeders etc. Since there is no left turn lane, that gives an extra through lane to navigate around obstacles. The one time there was a power outage, each light becomes a 2-way stop sign. Extremely smooth to navigate compared to a 4-way stop.
I live right next to one of these on Dorsett Rd and I-270 in the St Louis region. Dorsett is a major high traffic arterial. The intersection is very easy to follow; while driving through it, driving on the left feels more correct. It is also much safer than the previous cloverleaf because there are no simultaneous merge on-merge off zones. Traffic can get up to speed right away without making room for exiting merges. The drawback? If you get off the wrong exit, there is no way to get back on.
@deepthreat cloverleafs take up a huge amount of space to build because of the wide turning radii required for allowing trucks to make the u-turns. In urban areas such land is often not available, so the SPUI has been used. Single-Point Urban Interchange. However the SPUI has considerable signal delay from all of the left-turns. This seeks to eliminate that.
Two problems I envision: One is that there is no through traffic on the feeder roads, so such a traffic application is limited only to on/off ramps of limited access motorways. Second problem is one of safety: People not familiar with such an interchange will instinctively try to keep to the right... which would result in them accidentally going down the wrong set of lanes, esp. late at night. I see that there are videos where this system is actually in place though, so I suppose it works.
@jjamska: The Blue Lanes are a "limited-access highway", like a Freeway. There are entrance/exit ramps just outside the area shown which allow merging on and off those. The grey lanes to the side are the "feeder road" or the "access road".
Many places (eg Texas) have these access roads for nearly every interstate. Where I grew up, they were pretty rare (though maybe they have them now), so this would have confused me, too.
Now, run this simulation with REAL car drivers in it. You know, the ones who want to turn left, but then remember that Taco bell down the street has a sale on. There also seems to be a lack of speeders. You need to figure speeders in. And throw in a broken down car or two.
Nice concept, bit I still feel, the better option is to go for a 3 level SPUI, which eliminates large volume through traffic from having to wait for a signal phase.
It seems there's a possibility for deadlock if, as i encounter all the time, there is enough flow of traffic to cause some idiots to stop in the intersection of the crossover. They'll cause oncoming traffic to backup and if more idiots block the other crossover, deadlock!
Concerning if there is a POWER OUTAGE (top voted comment):
The DDI function without any confusion. The geometry will guide drivers to the correct location with the only difference being that there will be a full stop condition at the crossovers instead of a signal control. This is one of the advantages of the DDI over the single point urban interchange (SPUI) or a continuous flow interchange (CFI).
This would actually be very easy to drive. You simply obey traffic lights and follow the lanes. A left turn would merely require drivers to get in the far left lane(s). This also wouldn't be expensive as there are no overpasses (except, in this example, the interstate running over / feeding this system).
I see an option of going straight in the, say, North/South direction, but how do you go straight in the East/West direction? I'm sure there's a way, I just can't identify it.
One major problem is that if you want to go straight (and thus get back on the interstate) from one of the highway-parallel roads, with this design, its seems like you have to turn left/right and go way down the road (to make a U-turn, or find some sort of loop-around), and then go through a light or two in order to go back to the interstate or continue down the highway-parallel roads.
This increases the number of intersections and the chance of getting nailed by someone running a light and it limits the access, i.e. (you can only turn at the interesction and you can't go straight). So, aside from an easier left or right turn, whats the benefit?
@7917Lesser The benefit is that it decreases the number of "conflict points" wherein traffic streams cross one another. This means cars are less likely to hit each other. Increased number of intersections is not increased number of opposing streams.
@yestradamous Look at the simulation again- there is the option of going left, right or straight. Looks complicated from an ariel view but, would be much easier to drive. Better & more efficient than a traditional intersection.
I think one of the "cons" is the 2 major movements have to split green time equally because they cross each other. Another is the short queue available for the exiting ramp traffic going left.
I see the problem for large trucks -- can't exit and then get right back on. Get off at the wrong exit and they're automatically sentenced to a U-turn down the road. Ever try to U-turn an 18-wheeler?
@pdhpool The same thing that happens when traffic backs up the whole length of a block, you ticket people who try to cross the intersection without room or you end up with people blocking traffic. That said, maybe an improved light system would help. Using traffic sensors maybe you could have the first light automatically switch to red based on how many car-lengths of traffic have gone through and the timing of the second light.
@pdhpool "And what the heck happens when the stopped traffic backs up to the criss-cross section?" It can't. Traffic storage backs up into the through road and the arterial, not into the criss-cross. That is why the outside lights go red before the inside lights to red. The dorsett interchange does not even fill up half of the criss-cross storage area during rush hour.
Offamychain: You might consider reading the diverging diamond interchange article on Slate.com, which specifically mentions the number of places where traffic can intersect. At a DDI, it's FEWER than your standard multipoint highway interchange.
Trying to solve left-turn problems by throwing in MORE stop-lights than usual, ESPECIALLY when some of those lights stop ALL traffic, rather than just 1 or 2 lanes ....... is NOT the answer. Roundabouts work well, are generally easy to figure out for newbies, & are cheap. Elevated turn-outs from the outside lane also work well. Yes, they are expensive. But as far as the grotesque appearence argued by some who are against them ..... who cares if a well-working intersection is ugly?
Having a minor in geography, I've studied traffic a great deal. For several months, I considered concentrating my major toward city planning & traffic operations. Call me a geek, but you'd be wrong, even when I admit city traffic movement is almost a natural high. It's almost like studying a living person, with it's own personality, causes, & effects. But ALL I see here is about 20 locations within just an acre or so having great potential to cause massive gridlock during rush-hour.
It reminds me of the British joke about phasing in a right-side rule of the road by vehicle class. Bikes and motorcycles switch from left to right on January 1, followed by cars and light trucks on July 1, then heavy trucks and buses on the first of the following year.
@TDGCaputMortis Roundabouts have there own issues. I was just reading that 2 lane roundabouts actually have more accidents than traditional intersections, although they are more sideswipes than t-bones, so safety still improves.
@srestimator1 That's how the design is supposed to work. You don't go onto the two lanes on the far right or far left unless you want to turn. If you want to go straight, you stay in the middle (green, in this visualization) lanes.
@srestimator1 It meant no more left turns. These people merge, but never have to come to a stop, signal for a left, wait, and then go. It switches the traditional "stay on the same side of the road at all times" idea to eliminate the turns. No one has to actually turn. They get into whichever lane they need and "follow the road" without worrying about any turning. Look more closely.
This looks tremendously bad. and requires a rather bizarre highlway configuration to start with. Worse, it looks very VERY disruptive to traffic flow in one direction. PS. The highway traffic is unrealistically light compared to many real life situations I have seen.
What advantage does this have over the cloverleaf? Cheaper to build, maybe, but the cloverleaf doesn't even require anyone to stop, so is superior. if this could be implemented without an overpass it might make sense, but once you decide to build the overpass why not just add the cloverleaf?
If one were to exit the green expressway to fill their gas tank at the corner store and want to continue on the expressway, how is that possible when the service road doesn't cross the intersection?
@chuckbax there are already these intersections up and running, and they account for bicyclists quite well. There is a walking tour through one of them on YouTube. Search for "Diverging Diamond Walking Tour ."
thomabb, The problem with cloverleaf interchanges is that you have people slowing down to get off the highway in the same space you have people speeding up to get on the highway. This diamond interchange actually looks much safer and easier than what is currently being used.
I think that if you were cycling through this, if you obeyed traffic laws the way you're supposed to, you could just keep on the right shoulder and pedal on through, as a bicyclist isn't going to be making those turns to get onto the Interstate! You'd still have to keep a sharp eye out for cars trying to turn onto the highway, but that's nothin' new!
Actually, I as a cyclist would insist on the city also adding dedicated bike lanes and crossing zones too, to avoid issues with drivers!
Really? Am I the only one who is wondering what you're supposed to do if you're trying to bicycle through this madness? Intersections like this are what keep people off their bikes and in their cars...
@chuckbax There'd probably be bike trails or over-ramps for this kind of scenario. In my county in Florida, we have this one what's called the Pinellas Trail. You CAN use the road but the trail also has spots with over-ramps that go over the main highway and other places. Our trail spans the whole county.
Looks cool but I fail to see the point. How is this different than a regular road? Other than driving on the other side of the road for 10 seconds what does it do?
It seem that the only disadvantage to this is that the service roads have no continuation. you would have to make two turns and a u-turn to continue traveling on the service road
It seem that the only disadvantage to this is that the service roads have no continuation. you would have to make two turns and a uturn to continue traveling on the serviceroad
@derinkyle35 There is no "wrong side" of the road. It's all relative. Stay in your lane...meaning keep it between the lines and it all works out.
When you're headed down the freeway and you see a dual direction service road to your right....does it freak you out? Why not? One lane is going the "wrong way".
Does anyone ever consider what happens if the power goes out for the traffic lights? The single point interchange is hard enough to negotiate when the lights are disabled or flashing - this one looks like it would trap people forever.
@stevecycle2 You have to think of each interchange as the meeting of two one-way roads. It would flow as well as any normal intersection. Probably easier because you would have people trying to turn left in front of 3 lanes of traffic.
@stevecycle2 -- You raise a good point. I imagine that same as always, traffic would alternate on the honor system going clockwise, but it would take a lot of getting used to.
@stevecycle2 We've got one of these in town, and yes, the power has gone out before. Anyone who isn't an idiot navigates it the same way the signs direct, and like they would at any other intersection where the traffic lights are out. It's not that hard.
@stevecycle2 I'd imagine it'd actually be easier to navigate than your standard 4-way intersection. In both cases, with the lights out, you treat the intersection as a "stop sign." In your traditional 4-way intersection, you have to watch cars coming from 3 directions--left, right crosstraffic, and oncoming traffic turning left across your lane. In this intersection, you have two intersections, yes, but you only have to worry about traffic from one direction coming across your lane.
Yes, I've seen this in crop circles.
Astat1Go 4 months ago
This intersection also handles problems much more easily. e.g. power outages, stalled cars, speeders etc. Since there is no left turn lane, that gives an extra through lane to navigate around obstacles. The one time there was a power outage, each light becomes a 2-way stop sign. Extremely smooth to navigate compared to a 4-way stop.
marigolds6 4 months ago
I live right next to one of these on Dorsett Rd and I-270 in the St Louis region. Dorsett is a major high traffic arterial. The intersection is very easy to follow; while driving through it, driving on the left feels more correct. It is also much safer than the previous cloverleaf because there are no simultaneous merge on-merge off zones. Traffic can get up to speed right away without making room for exiting merges. The drawback? If you get off the wrong exit, there is no way to get back on.
marigolds6 4 months ago
We have two in Springfield, they are amazing.
fuzzypinkturtle 5 months ago
How is this mess better than a cloverleaf ?
deepthreat 6 months ago
@deepthreat cloverleafs take up a huge amount of space to build because of the wide turning radii required for allowing trucks to make the u-turns. In urban areas such land is often not available, so the SPUI has been used. Single-Point Urban Interchange. However the SPUI has considerable signal delay from all of the left-turns. This seeks to eliminate that.
dplots 6 months ago
I'm also curious as to how this is superior to a clover leaf layout, with no stop lights and no left turns at all?
JungleJil 6 months ago
Two problems I envision: One is that there is no through traffic on the feeder roads, so such a traffic application is limited only to on/off ramps of limited access motorways. Second problem is one of safety: People not familiar with such an interchange will instinctively try to keep to the right... which would result in them accidentally going down the wrong set of lanes, esp. late at night. I see that there are videos where this system is actually in place though, so I suppose it works.
JungleJil 6 months ago
It looks like it takes up more square feet than a normal cloverleaf.
RocketmanV8 6 months ago
Am I missing something, the blue lanes don't seem to be doing anything.
jjamska 6 months ago
@jjamska: The Blue Lanes are a "limited-access highway", like a Freeway. There are entrance/exit ramps just outside the area shown which allow merging on and off those. The grey lanes to the side are the "feeder road" or the "access road".
Many places (eg Texas) have these access roads for nearly every interstate. Where I grew up, they were pretty rare (though maybe they have them now), so this would have confused me, too.
NobodobodoN 6 months ago
There is a small piece of road like this in rome, you go on the wrong wide of the road to turn left at the end of the road.
VEKKIO 6 months ago
Now, run this simulation with REAL car drivers in it. You know, the ones who want to turn left, but then remember that Taco bell down the street has a sale on. There also seems to be a lack of speeders. You need to figure speeders in. And throw in a broken down car or two.
bobbie4 6 months ago
Nice concept, bit I still feel, the better option is to go for a 3 level SPUI, which eliminates large volume through traffic from having to wait for a signal phase.
unsuredyet 6 months ago
It seems there's a possibility for deadlock if, as i encounter all the time, there is enough flow of traffic to cause some idiots to stop in the intersection of the crossover. They'll cause oncoming traffic to backup and if more idiots block the other crossover, deadlock!
nicerobot 6 months ago
Concerning if there is a POWER OUTAGE (top voted comment):
The DDI function without any confusion. The geometry will guide drivers to the correct location with the only difference being that there will be a full stop condition at the crossovers instead of a signal control. This is one of the advantages of the DDI over the single point urban interchange (SPUI) or a continuous flow interchange (CFI).
cscottblev 6 months ago 3
This would actually be very easy to drive. You simply obey traffic lights and follow the lanes. A left turn would merely require drivers to get in the far left lane(s). This also wouldn't be expensive as there are no overpasses (except, in this example, the interstate running over / feeding this system).
majinspy 6 months ago
I see an option of going straight in the, say, North/South direction, but how do you go straight in the East/West direction? I'm sure there's a way, I just can't identify it.
yestradamous 6 months ago
One major problem is that if you want to go straight (and thus get back on the interstate) from one of the highway-parallel roads, with this design, its seems like you have to turn left/right and go way down the road (to make a U-turn, or find some sort of loop-around), and then go through a light or two in order to go back to the interstate or continue down the highway-parallel roads.
inj3cti0n 6 months ago
With the GOP not allowing the gov't to spend, just how would we even pay for this?
vigilantmeerkat 6 months ago
This increases the number of intersections and the chance of getting nailed by someone running a light and it limits the access, i.e. (you can only turn at the interesction and you can't go straight). So, aside from an easier left or right turn, whats the benefit?
7917Lesser 6 months ago
@7917Lesser You can't beat a good old fashioned round about!
7917Lesser 6 months ago
@7917Lesser The benefit is that it decreases the number of "conflict points" wherein traffic streams cross one another. This means cars are less likely to hit each other. Increased number of intersections is not increased number of opposing streams.
reptilegrrl 6 months ago
What if you want to go straight? I don't see an option, just left or right turns?
yestradamous 6 months ago
@yestradamous Look at the simulation again- there is the option of going left, right or straight. Looks complicated from an ariel view but, would be much easier to drive. Better & more efficient than a traditional intersection.
USHighway1 6 months ago
I think one of the "cons" is the 2 major movements have to split green time equally because they cross each other. Another is the short queue available for the exiting ramp traffic going left.
fvgomez2 6 months ago
Never seen so many brown cars.
toobeaut 6 months ago
I see the problem for large trucks -- can't exit and then get right back on. Get off at the wrong exit and they're automatically sentenced to a U-turn down the road. Ever try to U-turn an 18-wheeler?
WriterDude 6 months ago
And what the heck happens when the stopped traffic backs up to the criss-cross section?
pdhpool 6 months ago
@pdhpool The same thing that happens when traffic backs up the whole length of a block, you ticket people who try to cross the intersection without room or you end up with people blocking traffic. That said, maybe an improved light system would help. Using traffic sensors maybe you could have the first light automatically switch to red based on how many car-lengths of traffic have gone through and the timing of the second light.
nacoran 6 months ago
@nacoran Actually, maybe I should patent that! That would work with regular city block intersections too. :)
nacoran 6 months ago
@pdhpool "And what the heck happens when the stopped traffic backs up to the criss-cross section?" It can't. Traffic storage backs up into the through road and the arterial, not into the criss-cross. That is why the outside lights go red before the inside lights to red. The dorsett interchange does not even fill up half of the criss-cross storage area during rush hour.
marigolds6 4 months ago
Offamychain: You might consider reading the diverging diamond interchange article on Slate.com, which specifically mentions the number of places where traffic can intersect. At a DDI, it's FEWER than your standard multipoint highway interchange.
shapu 6 months ago
--Part II--
Trying to solve left-turn problems by throwing in MORE stop-lights than usual, ESPECIALLY when some of those lights stop ALL traffic, rather than just 1 or 2 lanes ....... is NOT the answer. Roundabouts work well, are generally easy to figure out for newbies, & are cheap. Elevated turn-outs from the outside lane also work well. Yes, they are expensive. But as far as the grotesque appearence argued by some who are against them ..... who cares if a well-working intersection is ugly?
offamychain 6 months ago
--Part I--
Having a minor in geography, I've studied traffic a great deal. For several months, I considered concentrating my major toward city planning & traffic operations. Call me a geek, but you'd be wrong, even when I admit city traffic movement is almost a natural high. It's almost like studying a living person, with it's own personality, causes, & effects. But ALL I see here is about 20 locations within just an acre or so having great potential to cause massive gridlock during rush-hour.
offamychain 6 months ago
It reminds me of the British joke about phasing in a right-side rule of the road by vehicle class. Bikes and motorcycles switch from left to right on January 1, followed by cars and light trucks on July 1, then heavy trucks and buses on the first of the following year.
nlpnt 6 months ago
Havent they heard of Roundabouts?
TDGCaputMortis 6 months ago
@TDGCaputMortis Roundabouts have there own issues. I was just reading that 2 lane roundabouts actually have more accidents than traditional intersections, although they are more sideswipes than t-bones, so safety still improves.
nacoran 6 months ago
Which side of the road do the Brits do this?
MrJimmyfry 6 months ago
This wouldn't work in FL. Where most people are driving in there 80's& 90's
stevieray777 6 months ago
@srestimator1 ...I love how you call engineers stupid as you say things like, "But them again..." and "...to know they almost as stupid...".
Keep living the dream!
mebejd 6 months ago
@srestimator1 That's how the design is supposed to work. You don't go onto the two lanes on the far right or far left unless you want to turn. If you want to go straight, you stay in the middle (green, in this visualization) lanes.
zelmoziggy 6 months ago
@srestimator1 It meant no more left turns. These people merge, but never have to come to a stop, signal for a left, wait, and then go. It switches the traditional "stay on the same side of the road at all times" idea to eliminate the turns. No one has to actually turn. They get into whichever lane they need and "follow the road" without worrying about any turning. Look more closely.
doroga287 6 months ago
on a completely unrelated point, this looks a lot more rope-like to me than diverging diamonds.
SimAlex20000 6 months ago
@SimAlex20000 The "rope" forms the "diamonds"
doroga287 6 months ago
This looks tremendously bad. and requires a rather bizarre highlway configuration to start with. Worse, it looks very VERY disruptive to traffic flow in one direction. PS. The highway traffic is unrealistically light compared to many real life situations I have seen.
qwixel 6 months ago
What advantage does this have over the cloverleaf? Cheaper to build, maybe, but the cloverleaf doesn't even require anyone to stop, so is superior. if this could be implemented without an overpass it might make sense, but once you decide to build the overpass why not just add the cloverleaf?
ricwoz 6 months ago
I dont know. Sitting at that light, in the snow or rain, and watching someone come at me head on, may get my heart racing a little bit.
RobCrue2266 6 months ago
Try a traffic circle it works for the rest of the world. And WOW NO LEFT TURNS! Idiots
mdenmarsh 6 months ago
@mdenmarsh Those themselves are traffic bottlenecks.
donavannj 6 months ago
@mdenmarsh I agree. Sadly, up here in Boston people still find ways to screw those up...
splatbubble 6 months ago
This shit is dumb.. This isnt an improvement to anything...
Genoside5 6 months ago
If one were to exit the green expressway to fill their gas tank at the corner store and want to continue on the expressway, how is that possible when the service road doesn't cross the intersection?
csh000 6 months ago 3
@chuckbax there are already these intersections up and running, and they account for bicyclists quite well. There is a walking tour through one of them on YouTube. Search for "Diverging Diamond Walking Tour ."
nhardt 6 months ago
thomabb, The problem with cloverleaf interchanges is that you have people slowing down to get off the highway in the same space you have people speeding up to get on the highway. This diamond interchange actually looks much safer and easier than what is currently being used.
65SteveC 6 months ago 2
Would not a simple cloverleaf interchange work so much better in this particular instance? No red lights, no criss crossing traffic lanes, etc.
thomabb 6 months ago
I think that if you were cycling through this, if you obeyed traffic laws the way you're supposed to, you could just keep on the right shoulder and pedal on through, as a bicyclist isn't going to be making those turns to get onto the Interstate! You'd still have to keep a sharp eye out for cars trying to turn onto the highway, but that's nothin' new!
Actually, I as a cyclist would insist on the city also adding dedicated bike lanes and crossing zones too, to avoid issues with drivers!
71Macola 6 months ago
Hm, so to avoid one mistaken left turn into a traffic flow, I can now go through a light into two of them.
TheWonderDoc 6 months ago
Really? Am I the only one who is wondering what you're supposed to do if you're trying to bicycle through this madness? Intersections like this are what keep people off their bikes and in their cars...
chuckbax 6 months ago
@chuckbax There'd probably be bike trails or over-ramps for this kind of scenario. In my county in Florida, we have this one what's called the Pinellas Trail. You CAN use the road but the trail also has spots with over-ramps that go over the main highway and other places. Our trail spans the whole county.
unitedhybrid 6 months ago
@chuckbax And not at all thinking of pedestrians, are you?
Obviously, the sidewalks & bike lanes should cross the least number of lanes possible.
Xunkun 6 months ago
Looks cool but I fail to see the point. How is this different than a regular road? Other than driving on the other side of the road for 10 seconds what does it do?
07SuperchargedSS 7 months ago
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It seem that the only disadvantage to this is that the service roads have no continuation. you would have to make two turns and a u-turn to continue traveling on the service road
soapy05 9 months ago
It seem that the only disadvantage to this is that the service roads have no continuation. you would have to make two turns and a uturn to continue traveling on the serviceroad
soapy05 9 months ago
@soapy05 Those are on/off ramps for the freeway in green.
heywire84 7 months ago
おもしろーい。交通量が多くても渋滞が最小になりそう。
isogh 1 year ago
I think one of the lights are not strictly nacassary here. For this cars which enters the left side.
movax20h 1 year ago
... They realize we'd be driving on the wrong side of the road... Right?...
derinkyle35 1 year ago
@derinkyle35 There is no "wrong side" of the road. It's all relative. Stay in your lane...meaning keep it between the lines and it all works out.
When you're headed down the freeway and you see a dual direction service road to your right....does it freak you out? Why not? One lane is going the "wrong way".
lexicon5 1 year ago
When the signals fail, the have to be a minimum of 4 officers to make this work properly.
Twentymiles75 1 year ago
Does anyone ever consider what happens if the power goes out for the traffic lights? The single point interchange is hard enough to negotiate when the lights are disabled or flashing - this one looks like it would trap people forever.
stevecycle2 1 year ago 29
Oh sure. Let's spend our time engineering in deference to the .0001% eventuality.
MadlockNJ 1 year ago
@stevecycle2 You have to think of each interchange as the meeting of two one-way roads. It would flow as well as any normal intersection. Probably easier because you would have people trying to turn left in front of 3 lanes of traffic.
capatingelatin 7 months ago
@stevecycle2
Well thats why they should either be on a back up generator or be powered by solar energy.
ribboniscrimson 6 months ago
@stevecycle2 -- You raise a good point. I imagine that same as always, traffic would alternate on the honor system going clockwise, but it would take a lot of getting used to.
WriterDude 6 months ago
@stevecycle2 everyone would die
tgeorge1978 6 months ago
@stevecycle2 We've got one of these in town, and yes, the power has gone out before. Anyone who isn't an idiot navigates it the same way the signs direct, and like they would at any other intersection where the traffic lights are out. It's not that hard.
DakhathDeathstroke 6 months ago
@stevecycle2 I'd imagine it'd actually be easier to navigate than your standard 4-way intersection. In both cases, with the lights out, you treat the intersection as a "stop sign." In your traditional 4-way intersection, you have to watch cars coming from 3 directions--left, right crosstraffic, and oncoming traffic turning left across your lane. In this intersection, you have two intersections, yes, but you only have to worry about traffic from one direction coming across your lane.
mylmyl100 4 months ago
Just don't run a red light! or you're instant dog food.
bmikesci 2 years ago
@bmikesci You run a red light anywhere and you are instant dog food. What the dif.?
jumbosixtyfive 11 months ago
Well, @jumbosixtyfive, generally speaking it's not such a hot idea to run red lights in the first place!
71Macola 6 months ago
haha call me a nerd but this kinda stuff is so cool! but i might be a little confused on my first trip through this thing... 0.o
jeffsandychelsea 2 years ago 7