Censorship debate - The Politics Show (BBC 1 South East)

[86Stooy]

Cencorship = Go online and buy unrated copies of films

[DarkAngel182]

@86Stooy or download them for free!

[lyris1]

LOL, what a fucking moron. "We shouldn't be allowed to see this!"

Grow the fuck up. I assume this MP guy is a conservative?

[TheCoreycoyle]

All I can say is FUCK CENSORSHIP!!! - im sorry but i am against censorship so much that i think its wrong to cut even 1 second out of a film!!!

[blaggermouth]

I think it's a load of bollocks !! If don't like sex & violence, don't watch it. Simple !

[DarkAngel182]

@blaggermouth you need to tell that to our lernid peers, who think we should not be allowed to make our own minds up.

[bak2skooltv]

how can you take this reporter seriously when he cannot even remember the real title of the Texas Chainsaw Massacre and bring up a totally awful example of a horror film such as Jack Frost. also bringing on the most biased mary whitehouse supporter and colleague John Beyer proves my point, this is a biased argument. Eastern Promises is not a horror film, so why end the segment with saying horror films always have a twist at the end.

[bak2skooltv]

how can you take this reporter seriously when he cannot even remember the real title of the Texas Chainsaw Massacre and bring up a totally awful example of a horror film such as Jack Frost.

[Allzthedevil]

...People need to lighten up...

[Euadam]

Hi I replied but not sure if it posted.

[Euadam]

John Beyer is a bodybuilder at my gym. 

[DarkAngel182]

@Euadam not the same John Beyer I hope?

[Euadam]

@DarkAngel182 Yeah, Ive known him for about 4 years. He used to be with mediawatch. Very arrogant. He looks like just a middle aged accountant above the neck but he has a very serious physique. Hes been training for over 20 years.

[DarkAngel182]

@Euadam I take it all those years of watching sex and violence on TV and video didn't turn him into an axe wielding maniac or rapist then?

I'd seriously like to put my boot up the arse of that odious little runt!

[Euadam]

@DarkAngel182 Yeah I know what you mean. I have tried to talk to him a few times about training but he just ushers me away with his hand. He is not very popular at our gym.

[DarkAngel182]

@Euadam maybe all those hours sat at home watching porn and violent films, when he should have been out socialising, have left him devoid of any social skills?

[adamatharvard]

@Euadam Lol. your probably right. Although I think he spends quite a bit of time in the gym to be honest. I dont think he even watches half the things he complains about.

[jmkc67]

Julian Brazier is an idiot who fails to realise that Eastern Promises is an excellent film and obviously doesn't appreciate that it exposes the hideous underground of London that politicians like himself, choose to ignore.

[DarkAngel182]

@jmkc67 judging by his comments about the film, I doubt very much he's even seen it and is going by the descriptons he's read about in the newspapers.

There's 2 throat slashings and 1 knife fight in the entire movies 2 hour running time, the scene with the eye isn't even shown properly, its more implied. So its hardly the orgy of violence hes claiming it to be.

Truth be told, there's more graphic violence in your average horror movie than this.

[grindhouse74]

The nazis used to burn books, censorship is dangerous, leave movies alone...

[DarkAngel182]

@grindhouse74 Indeed, it seems odd that people who burn books are called fascists, whilst people who burn DVDs are considered decent caring citizens.

[grindhouse74]

@DarkAngel182 ..Well said dude, hey if you like horror films check out the french movies Inside and Martyrs...

[ascolti]

Luckily.... nobody is listening to this prat.

[DarkAngel182]

@ascolti

Unfortunately, even though he was shot down in flames on this occaision, someone in the Labour government seemed to like his idea as they are considering introducing a similar law should they get into power again.

Clearly, the powers that be care little for reasoned debate and, as has been seen with the Dangerous pictures act and more recently, the Dangerous Drawings act, care only for pushing their own moral agendas ontothe populace.

[ascolti]

@DarkAngel182 Yeah... amusingly, so many classic literature now comes under "THAT" act. For example, the classic "The Water Babies" are traditionally depicted naked. etc. BURN THE BOOKS!

I wonder if a stick girl in a school uniform counts as pornographic? :-)

[countjeremiah]

Just got around to this. and yes, cencorship brings my piss to a boil like you wouldn't believe. but think of it this was. The people who are in power now. When they were our age there was mass uproar over the word 'dam' being used in Gone with the Wind and when Elvis shook his hips on live tv. So when they see movies like Cannibal Holocaust for example, of course there gonna order in the troups.

[northwestnewwave]

The North West New Wave is campaigning for the introduction of a Voluntary Unrated 18 Certificate.

Independent columnist Rhodri Marsden was on Nemones show yesterday and gave our petition a really good mention on BBC 6music.

The link for both Nemones show and our petition can be found on the North West New Wave Twiiter page, simply search for NWNewWave!

If you agree with our campaign please take a moment to sign our petition and to help spread the word!

[HoRsECaRtEr]

Any person who agrees with the fools of censorship are stupid media does not change people it merely shows the world we live inand mp should never ever ever ever be allowed to control the media in any way shape or form and i will fight this stupidity till the day i die my apoligies for the over dramatics but seriously i can stand this blame the movies crap

[DarkAngel182]

Well this attempt to alter the law failed. HOWEVER, Labour have said if they get in again at the next election they are going to introduce somethign similar (which I find odd considering this attempt was shot down in flames).

If the Conservatives get in though (which is looking likely) they're talking about doing a review of how films, tv and games are regulated, so we could be in for some sort of upheaval in the censorship laws either way.

Stay tuned!

[HoRsECaRtEr]

they should just leave it dude its gay

[thumbsupbaby]

@HoRsECaRtEr i couldn't agree more

[horrorboffin]

hi im only 13 and love extreme gore films

thing,planet terror, the evil dead etc and cant wait to get braindead , bad taste and lots more i think people should grow up and stop complainging and if they dont like the films they have the choice not to watch them

[DarkAngel182]

The problem is, the pro-censorship lot think this stuff should be banned in case it turns us into axe wielding maniacs!

[00woolley]

Wish I was 13 again! Braindead = you will not be disappointed.

[FunBoy15]

The mediawatch group is a christian group. So, if we are going to censor or ban the movies the way they believe we should lets censor or ban their bible too. the bible contains eye gouging, beheading, rape, live burning, people getting eaten alive, scalpings, god himself killing whole swaths of people - this could prompt an unstable person to kill just as much a film could. Any intelligent person should be able to put things in their proper context, such as the context that a film is NOT REAL.

[DarkAngel182]

This has long been my argument.

I will support a ban on sex and violence on the screen as long as the next time some person goes crazy and kills a bunch of folks claiming that it was divinely inspired that all copies of the bible and koran are banned too!

[FunBoy15]

your wars in foreign lands cause much more violence than some horror or action movies

[DarkAngel182]

This is true!

[darkenchanter]

@ John Beyer:

They already are accountable, to the VSC you dense F**K!

[DarkAngel182]

LOL, you should email him that and tell him yourself!

As a side issue, I see Gordon Brown is looking at bringing in his own change in the law IF they get in again at the next election which will bring in an appeals procedure similar to the one Brazier was suggesting.

Didn't he follow the debate? Brazier was ripped apart when this came up for debate, so why is Brown proposing something similar?

[darkenchanter]

No need to try telling him, he just annouced he's stepping down!

One can only hope someone saner takes his place (however unlikely that may ne)

[DarkAngel182]

Yes I just read about that. My money is on David Turtle as his replacement.

Mediawatch are actually dieing a very slow death. Since Mary Whitehouse left mmbership has been in decline and few people these days support their views (not that many people ever supported their views in the first place).

[adamchabbi6]

that is one of the main reasons why I want to leave the UK, to live in the U.S, at least in america they don't always restrict what adults should or shouldn't watch

[DarkAngel182]

Actually US censors are stricter than the UK, BUT they have an option to release stuff unrated. We don't!

[adamchabbi6]

that what I mean, why can't the UK release unrated films, it wouldn't be a problem if they started selling them, even though they could only sell them to those aged 18 or over, also the U.S has more uncensored films, I think, but if you want an extremely gory film, avoid the R rated versions which are heavily cut, and buy the unrated version!

[Dantewarsaw360]

Yeah true, problem has always been with the government, not the BBFC fault.

[Dantewarsaw360]

I hate Censorship, what give the BBFC right to tell us what we can watch or can't watch. that why i want to live in USA, or somewhere where there isn't Censorship.

[DarkAngel182]

Actually, if you look into their history, the BBFC were never the real bad guys.

The problem has always been with the government, who were constantly calling for more censorship, so the BBFC were always trying to justify their jobs.

In many ways, these days theyre actually more lenient than US censors, its just that in the US you can release stuff uncensored/unrated. In the UK you cannot, but thats down to the government, not the BBFC.

[primeministerpaul]

The BBFC don't just run workshops, meetings and conduct surveys outside their offices, they also send members of their education team out to schools and colleges to ask for their opinions as well as conducting questionnaires online and via e-mail.

The BBFC are very well informed on how to rate movies and put their guidelines in place with information to help viewers make the right decisions for them.

[DarkAngel182]

You need to tell that to the likes of John Meyer and his mediawatch cronies.

They seem to think the BBFC are there to serve the "evil" film industry who wish to flood our societies with filth (like its some conspiracy or something).

[1auchleeks]

Julian Brazier is my idol

[horrogod]

Thanks for the video, I found this very interesting.

[thrashmetalteen]

I could have punched my psychology teacher when she stated that violent cinema affects the way people act in reality! She even had the audacity to used the example of Child's Play 3 inspiring the murder of James Bulger. This sort of thing shouldn't be taught in schools.

[DarkAngel182]

You should have asked her if she beleives everything she reads in the sun!

[horrogod]

Seriously, how did Child's Play 3 inspire the murder of James. I really don't understand this.

[thrashmetalteen]

I have no idea, but I was getting at the stupidity of people these days. The wool is over their eyes! They cannot realise that people are not as dense as they appear. Films do not change someone's viewpoint on actual murder!

[DarkAngel182]

It was a story made up by the press in order to sell papers. The father of one of the kids had apparently rented the film weeks previously, however he was seperated and lived apart from his family, so neither of the 2 killers had actually seen it.

[Euadam]

I know John Beyer, hes a bodybuilder at my local gym. Huge guy.

[DarkAngel182]

Must be a differant John Beyer, this one you could knock over with a fart!

[thrashmetalteen]

So harmless material that would apparently 'deprave and corrupt' the viewer is too violent for today's society but we can still join armies and fight violently for queen and country?

[DarkAngel182]

Yup, ironic isn't it?

[thrashmetalteen]

Religion, Censorship and the Government are the three main things that are wrong with this world. To be honest, rule or regulation is never a good thing when it comes to controlling what people do. It usually makes people either rebel or feel 'trapped' in their own society. I bet Julian Brazier hasn't even seen the films in question.

[DarkAngel182]

Well he obviously hasn't seen "Eastern Promises" and is going by the graphic descriptions given by the Daily Mail. That film was hardly the orgy or violence I was lead to believe and if anythign is quite boring. There was 2 throat slashings and one breif knife fight, the rest of the films 2 hour duration was just people sat around talking. You see more gore and violence in any mainstream horror film.

[thrashmetalteen]

Censorship will do this country no good! It's using scapegoats such as violent movies to blame for today's society that ditracts from the real causes. As for the dangerous pictures act, doesn't it seem like another excuse to lock people up to you?

[DarkAngel182]

First point, the problem is that people like Brazier are products of a bygone era who are not media savvy as they grew up watching the 'test card' and the 'potters wheel' on TV. This was more about removing material he didnt like than protecting the public.

As for the DPA, it's the closest thing to a modern day witch hunt you are liable to see. Its simply about persecuting people for thougth crimes, and the lies perpetuated by certain MPs in order to justify this are quite unbelievable.

[SonOfChinaski]

Thank god no-one bought into Brazier's nonsense; people must be given the freedom to choose what they want to watch. After all, it's not like we're being forced to go out and watch violent horror movies. Recently the BBFC have been relaxing their policies on censorship and we've had quite alot of cuts waived which is great. It's this new 'Dangerous Pictures' act that worries me.

[DarkAngel182]

Yes fortunately there were several younger MPs who were more media savvy and managed to rubbish his claims.

Had the DPA been debated properly as a standalone bill, not shoehorned through as part of a much larger piece of legislation I doubt it would have made the statute books. Sadly, this was something certain MPs wanted in.

[Alexispelicula]

Oh, M8, SUPER WEAK. Violent movies are my artistic inspiration. How could we ever expect to get the prolls to fight a war if they they vomit at shadows on the silver screen?

[DarkAngel182]

Don't worry, the bill was shot down in flames by other (younger and media savvy) MPs.

Brazier did try this one before back in the late 90s but failed after being shot down in flames by then Cheif censor James Ferman.

[kensei85]

Fuck the BBC- Bullshit Bile & Censorship.

and BTW- I'm not being subjected to enough sex!! lol

I'm with Helen @ 4:00.

[DarkAngel182]

Noty sure why you're being so rude towards the BBC, they were only reporting what the MP in question was up to. I think your bile would be best directed at Julian Brazier.

[kensei85]

Well, just look up how they censor and manipulate things.. Benizir Bhutto, Bin Laden, Russia, Tibet.

Nothing but lies and censorship.

Seriously, just look it up. I've got bile for a reason- censorship is WRONG. They have bile for another reason: PROFIT.

[WJC007]

i hate the UK, i wanna move to America!

[DarkAngel182]

You'd be better off moving to Holland or somewhere in Europe.

America may have a constitutional right to freedom of speech, but believe me they have more censorial bigots over there than here.

[WJC007]

That could actually be better because in Europe thats were all the graphic canibal films are made, Cannibal Holocaust etc

[ironfan114]

Why can't we have the same censorship as the USA.

[DarkAngel182]

Well actually, the UK censors are more liberal than the US ratings board and films are frequently cut to get an R rating there, that would most certainly pass uncut for an 18 classification in the UK.

The only differance is they have the option of releasing stuff unrated/uncensored whereas we don't.

[ironfan114]

Why can't we be like the americans and not care.

[cheater87]

LOL old people who hate violence. Go back and watch your happy 50s movies where nothing bad happens you old fart.

[ironfan114]

I think we all (uk) should move country which is less strict of what we watch.

[w879w87w]

sad thing about this all is that there trying to make us a country where not by rapping us in cotton wall you ban things only makes it worse wheres the free country they talk and freedom of speech seems like the moment where born we dont get a say in what happens.

[robjbray]

lastly if I was the kind of guy who was going to suddenly start a serial killing campaign I would do it any way.

If you kept me in disney land till I was 30 and never let me see an adult film it would do nothing to stop me.

The headlines in the news would read something like this...

the body was found with a mickey mouse toy stuffed in its mouth. suspended from the ceiling like pinocio.

[robjbray]

lastly I should add, violence in our socity is caused by poverty lack of education and up bringing and lack of law enforcement and survalence.All the so called helpful cameras are in the centre of london (Picadilly etc)

there are never any cameras in these poor estates where kids get stabed and shot

[robjbray]

I have seen easten promise and I found it very plauseable I live in the area of london the film is set in. The violence in the film is well placed very realistic and makes you think about your humanity and mortality.

if you start watching this film you wont stop it till its finished. also the main character is such a good actor.

[robjbray]

if you censor what I can can not watch I will go and make the most depraved sick shit, I can think of and share it with every one I know any way???

why? because although I tend to watch funny films like naked gun or old school. If you take my rights away I will delibratly rebel against you.

[HenryWindgates]

Thanks for posting this video up. Love to see how irrational these Big Brother fucks can be when they love using movies, video games and other forms of entertainment as scapegoats.

Three cheers for Julian Brazier! Perhaps someday he can even stage book burning festivals for his brainwashed supporters too.

[DarkAngel182]

Just you wait till the Dangerous Pictures act comes into force next January (google it). This means that it will be illegal to possess (or even look at) images of acts that are not in themself illegal, plus as it only targets pornography, this means that certaon acts will be perfectly legal in one context but illegal in another.

How that one ever made it onto the statute books beggars beleif.

[HenryWindgates]

Because thoughts and ideologies evolve eventually. Take Hitler for example, he said that he will only get rid of the Jews but later on he starts to exterminate people of other races too.

Just like those Big Brothers of video games and movies, they will start to pick on books in the near future.

[HenryWindgates]

The Dangerous Pictures Act is a total bullshit. How dare those fucks assume what is good for us and what is not? Do they have anything better to do rather than focusing all their powers on useless things?

[DarkAngel182]

Indeed, many commentators on this new law have commented that this is a case of "first they came for the perverts".

[HenryWindgates]

That's totally preposterous, I must say. Seems like 90% of our human race are bound by irrationality and love to make up excuses or using scapegoats for their own wrongdoings and 10% of our human race are rational and would actually bother to find out what's causing this or that problem instead of using scapegoats.

Sad thing, right?

[w879w87w]

now ive seen tenebrae in all its uncut form but its not turned me into a serial axe murderer.

[w879w87w]

most of all this is caused by mary white house she almost banned everything now shes gone things are changing this is the trouble with uk we live to much in the past its not only the young mums and dads but more of the old people who complain about these type of things to.

[DarkAngel182]

Indeed, do a google for the dangerous pictures act.

[splathouse1]

end of the day people choose to watch what they want when they want, if its too strong for them then dont watch it, if not let people do what they want to do.

[DarkAngel182]

I agree, the problem is that MP's like Julian Brazier and morality groups lead by the likes of John Beyer seem to think they know what's good for us and we don't.

[splathouse1]

thats too true, i think that is the government all round these days, i mean they should be concentrating on more pressing matters.

by the way, you have probably the best horror collection ive seen, and deffinatly the best video nasty era collection.

[DarkAngel182]

Thanks I've been collecting a long time!

[jackfordmac]

I agree with the point that the appeals board should be run by an independant body. It seems foolish to have one person say something and then ask the same person for a different take on it (this is my understanding of the situation anyway). Thanks for uploading.

[jmspllkn]

...and out of all the grisly, ultra violent films from the past 40 years what do they show a clip of? Jack Frost! ahahahahaha!

[Mukkinese]

What right has Government to tell adults what they can and cannot watch?

Unless they can show clear and credible evidence that viewing any, material of any kind, causes harm, then they have no right to interfere.

The last thing we need is for censorship to be in the hands of politicians.

[Linkified]

So true I don't even know why we need things rated i bet in the the 1920s they didn't have to be nannied

[BeechCustom74]

The BBFC have just rejected Nick Palumbo's 'Murder Set Pieces'.

[DarkAngel182]

It suprises me not, I'm just suprised some distributor had the balls to submit it in the first place.

Though the BBFC are considerably more liberal these days, art may get through unscathed, but exploitation doesn't.

[BeechCustom74]

Just read the BBFC's justificaion for the rejection on their website. The main issue appears to be the sexualised violence which has always been an issue at the Board. However, they also make reference to 'detailed portrail of dangerous or violent acts' being unacceptable at any classification level. This is disconcertingly vague and subjective and could arguably be levelled against any number of films including 'Saving Private Ryan' and the new Rambo flick!

[justwoozynow]

Murder Set Pieces looks like a steaming pile of shit anyway.

[NothingDoingChief]

WELL beside the point mate.

[topercat]

Actually justwoozynow the uncut Director's Cut of MURDER-SET-PIECES is one of the better exploitation films, with no-holds-barred. Sure it's pure sensationalism, but that has never been a problem for me! It is savagely brutal and graphically violent, and more importantly it's well-acted (crucial for successful exploitation). The BBFC will probably allow the MPAA R rated version, missing some 10-15 minutes of footage.

[topercat]

Thanks for posting this DarkAngel - fascinating viewing. Letting MPs decide whether BBFC decisions needs to be reviewed!? Censorship has never made a country safer to live in - it actually makes the whole atmosphere one of repression and intolerance. I'm sure you'll find pre-war Nazi Germany had strict censorship, did that make it a nice safe country?

[DarkAngel182]

No, but some might argue at least it got the trains running on time :)

[topercat]

Haha - I'm sure every dictatorship or fascist state did some things right! But if it's a choice between having trains running late or allowing MPs to decide what's good for us to see and read, I think you'll know which option I'd be taking. A late train isn't that bad anyway - sometimes I can catch a late train and end up being early!

[HenryWindgates]

You made a very good point, topercat. A country that has censorship and it's government enjoys telling people what to do means trouble.

And yes, during the Nazi rule, there are lots of book burning being staged and 6 million Jews being massacred. If that isn't enough to convince you that censorship is nothing but trouble, then you can go check out Kim Jong Il, Stalin and other dictators from Wikipedia.

[topercat]

Indeed HenryWindgates - Government censorship suppresses free speech and thought. It starts as censorship of 'pornography' but it leads elsewhere. At least the UK is a well-defined democracy so extremes are less likely than in say Iran or Zimbabwe.

[DarkAngel182]

Topercat, the UK may be a democracy but they're not opposed to forcing through draconian legislation when it takes their fancy.

As I said elsewhere, do a google for the Dangerous Pictures Act. A particularly nasty piece of legislation shorehorned through without proper debate and despite overwhelming public opposition.

[topercat]

I have to admit this sounds like the sort of law that China might have.

[BeechCustom74]

Thanks for posting.  My blood's boiling! Typical scape-goating tactics by the far right. Lets hope the proposal disappears quietly along with that Conservative bloke with the silly hair.

[Pixelbuddy]

Damn.

[hanzo138]

I think sociological "problems" are reflected in fimls, not caused by them.

[ViceCityCitizen]

That idiot needs to shut his old, out of date mouth.

[CafeJavaFilms]

Censorship in movies sucks. It's rated R or 18 for a reason! People should stop trying to censor our films!