Jesus only used scriptures to announce His coming, reprimand and correct those who followed them just as today we, those who are of the Holy Spirit, have to use to correct those bound by the letter. Close your eyes and open up your heart. Let love come rushing in my brothers and sisters. The Holy Spirit is there to guide you. You may not have the Bible so make sure you have your weapons of the Spirit donned and ready!!!!
How does this prove the Bible is the Word of God? The true Word of God is Yahoshuah Messiyah... He has been always, always is, and always will be.... He has given us the Holy Spirit to immediately win the hearts of all who are called. Reasoning with scriptures trying to win over people logically is not the Way of the Master. Jesus never used scriptures to win non believers. He used love and compassion. He used sacrifice as we are to do also. No greater love to lay down our lives for friends.
If jesus was a god then he could not possibly die for us because he is a god and cant die only transform him self to his original form in heaven so his death was a way to go back home. Now it would be a sacrifice if he spent eternity in hell for us then and only then can his crucifiction can be considered a sacrifice
The ONLY"Word of God"mentioned in that book you call by My Lords Title is NOT Him.It cant bring you 1 step closer to Jesus than a dictionary but that does NOT stop the religious from Idolizing IT! IT seems to make no difference to its Idolaters what IT "says".The Bible Quotes Jesus Proclaiming "I AM The Bread of Life" "NO man comes to me except my Father Reveals it to Him"and that He would send The Spirit of Truth to lead us to ALL TRUTH ! Not bibles ! Who is Your god, mine answers by fire.
That's what evil is. It exists with or without a god.
And what are the quotations for? I am an atheist. Just as you are likely to be a theist. Quotations infer you are implying something other than the true meaning of the word.
I can guarantee you, I am an atheist. I hold no blind beliefs in a god, and I'm not a sheepish follower of a religion.
@AlexWerkmeister712 I didn't ask you what Webster thinks. I asked you what evil is and why it would be wrong according to your atheistic world view, where there is no absolute moral code and no moral law giver. How do you account for evil? Is it material or immaterial? Is it absolutely wrong to murder?
What I believe is evil is exactly what Webster thinks, and that's why I provided you with a definition.
I don't believe in the Golden rule completely either. Treat others as *they* want to be treated, to a certain extent. Don't worship or kiss asses, but respect one another, and the world would be a much greater place.
Morals are simple. It's innate, unless you're psychotic. Don't intentionally harm others, emotionally or physically.
@AlexWerkmeister712 Still doesn't answer the questions. I'll try to out it in simpler terms. How do you get morals; or good and evil, from evolved soup and just chemical processes? What is good and what is evil is innate, because God has hardwired it in all of us. That's how I account for knowing right from wrong, how do YOU account for things that are immaterial, universal and unchanging, such as the laws of logic and morals based on your world view?
@AlexWerkmeister712 Your talk of morals and evil is borrowing from the Christian world view to make sense of yours. If evolution is true and if there is no God, then your talk of evil is arbitrary and would make no sense or difference. You cannot account for why you have morals.
Where is your proof that God "hardwired" the difference between good and evil in us?
Also, if that's true, why are there Christian murderers? Did God get his wires mixed up?
I don't "borrow" anything from Christianity, either. To the contrary, Christianity has borrowed ideas from other religions to create a new fad of their own.
Another thing, you can't explain evil, love, and some other human emotions, but it doesn't mean "God did it."
@AlexWerkmeister712 First of all everyone who claims to be a Christian is not a Christian. To be a christian you have to have a relationship with Christ and your life has to match that of scripture. So there are no such thing as "Christian murderers" But Why is murder wrong in your world view? I know it's wrong because God is a holy God and hates evil. One of the ten commandments also is though shall not kill(in the context of murder)
@AlexWerkmeister712 What makes my logic circular? If it is, why would that be wrong? There is no such thing as an objective world view. You have the way you view the world as flawed as it might be, it certainly isn't objective, you obviously oppose the Christian world view. Yet you borrow from it to make sense of yours. You still haven't told me how you account for evil. It's a simple question o.o which you can't answer of course.
@AlexWerkmeister712 I already told you why there are morals. God has written it on our hearts and has given us a conscience to know right from wrong. As humans we were created in the image of God. God is a righteous and holy God so by nature we are moral creatures. The evidence is there can be no morals, no logic or anything that is immaterial, universal and unchanging, without a God who is universal, immaterial and unchanging. You wouldn't be able to know anything for certai
What makes you think that God was what gave us consciences. What makes you think there can be no morals, logic, or anything immaterial, universal and unchanging without God?
What you personally believe doesn't count as evidence, and all you've given me are blind assumptions.
You also didn't answer the question. How old do you think the earth is?
Also, what about other religions--why are they wrong and yours is right?
@AlexWerkmeister712 Because God says so in his word. If you want I could give you scripture after scripture. In order for there to be an absolute moral law; for murder to be absolutely wrong there would have to be an absolute moral law giver. Man cannot change the laws of logic or change the moral law, you can only ignore the moral code that has been written on our hearts and ignore your conscience though. The reason I didn't answer that question is because I don't want to
@AlexWerkmeister712 change the subject. Your pre-suppositions would prevent you from seeing the physical evidences of God's existence. What you assume based on the way you live your life proves God's existence.
@AlexWerkmeister712 I'm addressing what you believe and your world view, not other religions. You still haven't told me how you account for evil though. I'm still interested in your answer.
@AlexWerkmeister712 I did not ask you for a definition of evil. We all know what evil is because God has made it clear to all human beings.(Romans 1:18-21) How can you account for it? Why is it wrong to harm others? Those are two different things. If evolution is true, or whatever you believe about the universe is true, than how you can account for evil? The reason I asked was because you called God evil. I just wanted to know whats your foundation for your morals.
But just because it was in once piece of writing, from over 2000 years ago, definitely does not give it credibility. If we're saying one book is all we need for proof, then I could just as easily say that wizardry, witchcraft, potions, and spellcasting is real because of Harry Potter.
If you want to accept the Bible as the truth, then so be it, and I cannot change your view.
I called the Abrahamic God evil because he commanded--or so the Bible says--murders.
Here, I'll list a few evil--in my opinion--Bible quotes:
Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests
"Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel." (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
Kill Witches
"You should not let a sorceress live." (Exodus 22:17 NAB)
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
Kill Fortunetellers
"A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death." (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)
I agree, good music can bring relation between any creed!
Sadly, for some, it is just another petty topic to argue and hate each other over...
But anyways, I'm getting away from the computer for awhile; my guitar is calling. :P
I'm really interested in what you think about the evil Bible quotes, though. If you check out that website and reply, I'll be sure to answer you when I'm back on the computer!
@AlexWerkmeister712 That site is pretty offensive tbh and interesting. Not to mention alot of those scriptures are out of context. You can quote certain parts of scripture to validate just about anything, but without supernatural guidance you can't understand scripture. it'll be nonsense to you. People who try to paint God as "evil" or "immoral" don't seem to realize that you cannot make a moral argument without starting with God. The bible says that the wages of sin is death
"...but without supernatural guidance you can't understand scripture. it'll be nonsense to you."
Well in that case, why do people read scripture at all? If everything is just an uncertain interpretation of the "word of God," we shouldn't be following anyone's exact interpretation, right?
In my opinion, if there were to be some sort of supernatural being or a "god" as people like to refer, he/she/it would be something unlike any of us ever could begin to imagine.
If there is something/someone so powerful and complex as to have created the universe (in the case of creation, which I strongly disbelieve) or in the case of the Big Bang theory, to create the first photons to collide, then that god must surely be too complex to be understood by us petty, ignorant humans.
I think we're both just beating a dead horse, and it's time to get off. Clearly, we're not going to change each other's minds, and with that, I say--have a great life!
@AlexWerkmeister712 and that no man is "good". In order to understand the bible we have to approach it not from a self-righteous mindset, but be humbled and realize that we are lucky to even be breathing right now. if anything people should blame Adam for bringing about sin in the world and causing us to inherit sin nature. God isn't evil, we are.
I disagree on the basis of lack of proof. We can certainly have morals without a God, as a God would have to have validation and said proof that he has implanted morals within humans for it to be of any use in a debate. I can make a moral argument without God. I have morals, and I disbelieve in God. There is no proof he has placed any morals within me, therefore I shall assume that those morals are innate or taught by my upbringings, which were passed on from their upbringings, etc.
@RasheemH If we are so evil then why did Jesus say that the kingdom of God is within us? The truth is that good and evil are within man just as Jesus said the shaft came up with the wheat. The Bible is a compilation of SOME of the writings by men and women who followed the Truth. We cannot idolize it.
It's possibly, but *HIGHLY* unlikely, and the chances of the Abrahamic (Christian, Islamic, Jewish) God being the right one is next to impossible, and I choose to not believe in something so very unlikely.
@AlexWerkmeister712 Your changing the subject now. I'm not interested in debating evidences. We both can look at the same evidence and come to different conclusions. How ever you can't refute what God has already written on your heart. You know God exists you just suppress the truth. For someone to say "there is no God" their faith would be far greater than any Christian I know.
Jesus this Jesus that, can you seriously prove Jesus ever exisited? I read so many comments other viewer make of a man, mostly a story they heard from other BAAA BAAA BAAA minded people and without question they believe everyword. A robot is easy to control.
There have been plenty of people who were punished in the place of other people, if it had said "There shall be a man named Jesus who will die by crucifiction accused of the crime of blasphemy, specifically claiming to be the son of god. He will truly be the son of god and he shall be taking away our sins with his death. Three days later he will rise from his tomb which it shall take 6 men to obstruct" and some verifiable historical evidence was found that it happenned I'd believe god said it
Jesus was a jew, and the jews learned long ago that you can't control god by speaking for him and that they didn't read their texts as literal. Jesus never commanded the writing of a text and that he spoke for god. The god of the universe doesn't need to use men's inspiration from thousands of years ago to have a relationship with man today. He is here in the present moment, inside all of us. not in a book or the word of man. I think you under estimate gods power.
i don't even have to read all these comments to know that its all fighting over religion. Christians, your not going to change an atheist's mind over youtube comments. Atheists, your not going to make a Christian lose their faith over youtube comments. why get yourselves all worked up?
Isaiah 53 isn't even a Messianic prophecy. Isaiah himself says that the Suffering Servant is Israel. Christians co-opted the passage to refer to Jesus.
You know it's wrong to rape. You know it's wrong to steal. You know it's wrong to murder. Nobody has to tell you this -- it's already written in your heart.
On the other hand, your dog won't feel a bit bad about stealing your sandwich, as long as he doesn't get a whipping out of it. You can teach him that such behavior is unacceptable, but you'll never even get him to begin to understand that it's not right. They're simply not wired to comprehend such things.
No, I refuted nothing. Morality does not "come from god." And there are several observed instances of other animals demonstrating "moral" behavior in the animal kingdom. There is nothing "special" about our morality, especially when you consider that we are also the only animals that kill for fun, rape for fun, torture. We are capable of committing far worse crimes than observed in other animal groups. Explain how that is evidence for god-given morality?
@1ProudFemaleAtheist "No, I refuted nothing. Morality does not "come from god." And there are several observed instances of other animals demonstrating "moral" behavior in the animal kingdom."
The fact that you put quotes around the word moral shows that this argument relies on equivocation. They may show cooperative behavior, but this isn't morality. It's simply conditioning.
Not equivocation. It's not conditioning. Conditioning comes from moderating behavior based on reward and punishment. When do you see animals doing this to each other?
Cats do like to kill mice and birds, you're right. Do they also rape and torture? And you still have not addressed how human beings are capable of such depravity, yet we are created in the image of an almighty and all-loving and all-moral god?
@1ProudFemaleAtheist "Not equivocation. It's not conditioning. Conditioning comes from moderating behavior based on reward and punishment. When do you see animals doing this to each other?"
All the time. Are you aware of the social dynamics that take place in a wolf pack?
"Cats do like to kill mice and birds, you're right. Do they also rape and torture?"
Sometimes they'll play with an animal before they kill it. Or at least they consider it play. I'm sure the other animal doesn't.
"And you still have not addressed how human beings are capable of such depravity, yet we are created in the image of an almighty and all-loving and all-moral god?"
Free will. We can either listen to the dictates of our conscience or ignore them.
I knew you were going to say free will....lol.....sorry but no, I've heard that crap before. There is no such thing as free will if god sends us to eternal punishment for actually using it. Are you saying that a cat is aware of the fact that it is torturing it's prey? Hardly. that is what makes torture, torture. The awareness of the incredible pain (emotional and/or physical) being inflicted by both the giver or the receiver.
@1ProudFemaleAtheist "I knew you were going to say free will....lol.....sorry but no, I've heard that crap before. There is no such thing as free will if god sends us to eternal punishment for actually using it."
You're going to have to explain that one to me, because that argument makes no sense. How can something you actually use not exist?
I never said it did not exist. I just do not buy the easy cop-out "argument" used by theists to explain the horrid behavior man is capable of called "free will." I already told you if eternal damnation is our punishment for using free will - then there is nothing free about it. I also do not think some of the disgusting things people can do to others can be packaged under a vacuous "free will" term. It's a sickness, a moral and human sickness to enjoy hurting others.
You just said there is no such thing as free will if God punishes us for actually using it. Saying that there is no such thing as something is the same thing as saying that such a thing doesn't exist. I should also point out the freedom of choice doesn't mean freedom from consequences.
"Are you saying that a cat is aware of the fact that it is torturing it's prey?"
No. I said it thinks it's playing.
"Hardly. that is what makes torture, torture. The awareness of the incredible pain (emotional and/or physical) being inflicted by both the giver or the receiver."
I don't think the cat cares about any of that one way or the other.
@1ProudFemaleAtheist "There is nothing "special" about our morality, especially when you consider that we are also the only animals that kill for fun, rape for fun, torture."
Ever seen March of the Penguins? How the mother penguin loses her baby (it dies immediately) and she tries to "steal" another mother penguins baby? The other mother penguins help protect the baby she is trying to steal, and chase her away from it several times. Is this conditioning? Or cooperative, empathetic behavior? Did they get "conditioned" to do this?
"There is nothing "special" about our morality... we are also the only animals..." etc. We are the only ones that do said things, but we aren't special. Got it.
Your sarcasm is a joke. The fact that we are the only ones who do such horrible deeds is proof AGAINST being created "in the image of" a divine, perfect entity. And there ISN'T a universal standard for good. What about how they treat rape victims in Muslim countries? Yet - they believe wholeheartedly in God, right?
The fact that we can do good at all is proof for it.
I say there IS a universal standard for good. We can play ping-pong on that point all day, but that's a waste of time.
Your statement makes no sense. See? You have to borrow from my God to make anything make sense? What's wrong with how they treat rape victims? Is it universally wrong? By what standard do you judge that?
And no, the "god" umbrella isn't a good comparison at all. I'm talking about Jesus
No, it is not proof. And it does not matter what you say - it is obvious that there is NO UNIVERSAL STANDARD. My statement makes perfect sense. What's wrong with it? The woman must have male witnesses or else SHE GETS KILLED. What standard to I use? Basic human decency. Which is rooted in EMPATHY, not "magical sky-daddy.' Buddhists are highly moral in their philosophy, are you saying they are immoral since it's not Jesus-based?
It is NOT "written in our hearts." There is nothing supernatural about it. It is written in our nature, and some people have natures that are clearly immoral/amoral, they exhibit highly aggressive and violent tendencies even from a young age. How do you attribute that to god? Oh let me guess - that's not god, that's "satan" right?
@1ProudFemaleAtheist You keep refuting yourself. It's not written in our hearts, but it is written in our nature? Come on now.
As for people with violent and aggressive tendencies, what makes you think I attribute these to either God or Satan? People are inherently immoral. Not amoral. We know right from wrong, whether we obey our consciences or not.
Not remotely refuting myself. Written in our nature is not the same as written "in our hearts." Our hearts pump blood, nothing more. Your touchy-feely way of describing morality is just that - it's glib, cliche, and vacuous.
Just like some animals are aggressive, some are docile. If morality comes from God, why is it so fragile? c'mon! An almighty all powerful being "gives us"morality that we almost never use?
I'm still waiting for you to explain how morality comes from god.
@1ProudFemaleAtheist You're just bandying semantics here. You know what I'm trying to say. I'm sure you don't tell your significant other that you love them with all your brain.
I've already told you how morality comes from God -- it reflects His nature. The fact that we have free will means that although we have a moral nature, we don't have to go along with it. In fact, we often don't.
I'm not bandying anything. You just can't respond effectively. "Written in our hearts" is a glib and touchy-feely answer. You did not say how it comes from god - reflecting his nature is certainly not an answer. If god chooses to always be moral, how is our immorality a refection of his nature?
Total contradiction. Talk about refuting yourself!
@1ProudFemaleAtheist When did I say our immorality is a reflection of God's nature? I said morality itself -- the very concept -- is a reflection of God's nature. I haven't refuted myself at all. You've simply conflated what I've said with somthing I haven't.
@1ProudFemaleAtheist No, that's not my argument. Our free will can reflect morality (God's nature) or immorality (a fallen nature). Free will isn't limited to just bad choices.
btw if you are a 'Christian, the whole "free will" argument is a moot point, isn't it? Because ultimately what "sends someone to heaven or hell" is whether or not they believed? Their actions (their decisions to do good or bad) don't even count. Another complete failure of Christianity.
Please tell me where the bible says we are judged according to our deeds? You are going completely against what every Christian has ever said. You are clearly the one who does not understand - AT ALL - what Christianity teaches. If we are judged according to our deeds, I have nothing to worry about.
@1ProudFemaleAtheist I find the arguments you're making here incongruous with the statements in your profile, where you presuppose the existence of such things as free will and morality. Does the idea that Christians believe in such things as well bother you so much that you have to disavow these ideas when they're affirmed by a Christian? It seems to me like you're just being contrary.
Let me put it to you this way why the free will thing fails. First,, I've already told you that eternal punishment for using it is NOT FREE. Secondly, look at both of these scenarios. A man builds a dungeon in his basement, kidnaps his daughter and keeps her there for 23 years, rapes her almost daily, impregnates her 5 times. And a little girl steals a pack of gum from the counter while her mom isn't watching. Both of these are "free will" to you. NONSENSE.
@1ProudFemaleAtheist "Let me put it to you this way why the free will thing fails. First,, I've already told you that eternal punishment for using it is NOT FREE."
And I've told you that freedom of choice doesn't mean freedom from consequences. Your entire argument relies on conflation and equivocation.
Eternal punishment is unjust and sick. Period. The focus here is on the word ETERNAL. And your using the bible to prove the bible - hence the whole "fallen nature" reference. So we have free will, which means freedom of choice, but we also INHERIT, THROUGH NO CHOICE OF OUR OWN, a "fallen nature?"
Again, self refuting. You can't say we are "born with original sin" and also state we have "free will to sin or not."
@1ProudFemaleAtheist I don't accept the idea that God holds us accountable for something Adam and Eve did (the 'original sin,' if you will). However, I do believe He holds us accountable for our own actions. This is in no way incompatible with the notion of free will. We all have urges that we know we shouldn't give in to, and we all decide whether or not we will.
@1ProudFemaleAtheist Do you even realize that you're borrowing from my worldview in order to criticize your own? What is sin or accountability after death in your worlview, other than fantasy?
I am not borrowing anything. I do not believe there is any afterlife at all. I am speaking HYPOTHETICALLY. And what are you talking about "criticize my own?"
@1ProudFemaleAtheist Sure you are. Who's gonna hold anybody accountable for the things they've done in life according to your worldview? You have to borrow mine just to entertain that concept.
@OneEyedJack1970 No I am not. In my worldview no one is "held accountable" for anything after death because there is no afterlife. What I am saying is IF there is a final judgment, then a just GOD judges people based on their actions, not beliefs.
Other people hold you accountable. Which is, incidentally, a far superior notion of morality than the word of a 3,000 book of fairy tales that was written to satisfy the societal necessities of life in the desert. :)
@1ProudFemaleAtheist "What's the problem? You should be too. Everybody should."
And we will be -- unless we accept forgiveness on God's terms. And we may still have to face the consequences of our actions here on Earth. You don't let a murderer go free just because he converts to Christianity, even if he is sincere.
"Secondly, look at both of these scenarios. A man builds a dungeon in his basement, kidnaps his daughter and keeps her there for 23 years, rapes her almost daily, impregnates her 5 times. And a little girl steals a pack of gum from the counter while her mom isn't watching. Both of these are "free will" to you. NONSENSE."
What would you call it? Compulsion? Obviously, in the case of the daughter who is having her free will violated, but the others?
As for how morality comes from God -- it simply reflects His nature. Since we're made in His image, we have a moral nature as well (whether we believe in Him or not).
Prophecy proves NOTHING. The New Testament was written AFTER the OT. You did not give me any proof, and it is VERY hard to believe that you have a college degree when you go around saying that you have "provided proof that the bible is true" when you have done NO SUCH THING. There IS NO PROOF.
@1ProudFemaleAtheist I don't care what you believe about my degree. Both the New and the Old Testament made prophecies that were and some that are yet to be fulfilled. There are old testament copies from carbon dated from 300 BC. Messianic prophecies are but one example that were fulfilled in Jesus Christ himself.
@1ProudFemaleAtheist Yes. You can. From Jewish history as well as Roman history. You Atheist go around trying to convert people to your stupid methodologies. Yet, when someone does the same to you from the opposite camp you resort to foul language. I told you the site to go find your proof. But obviously it's not enough for you because you refuse to even look. Why are you even posting here if your an atheist? What is the purpose of this futile exercise?
If you are an atheist why are you here commenting? You seem so convinced of your beliefs why look at a video entitled "Proof the Bible is the Word of God"? Why look for proof? That's like an atheist going to church on Sunday. You will gain nothing out of it!! What you have is a taxi-cab mentality. You can't convince me anymore than I can convince you. I'm just stating what I believe. Nonetheless though "Why did you click on this video to begin with"?
@vze21gwa The only logical answers would be that you are either looking for proof that the bible is true and/or having doubts in Atheism. Those are the only logical explanations. Because even if you came to convince people of Atheism you would have posted a video on YouTube like everybody else. Feel free to use all the foul language you want.
@lizardstyle101 try telling that to 1ProudFemaleAtheist. Even after giving her proof she keeps saying that it is not proof and pretty much views all christians as Idiots. It's a shame really but it's like Jeremiah 5:21 says.
I feel very, very sorry for the deluded Christians that say that I am going to burn in hell for being a non-believer...And they think THEY are the good ones??? H'mm!!
All you fucking evil atheists are gonna burn in hell for mocking the infallible, holy word of god -- and I'm gonna LAUGH at you as I live happily ever after in my gingerbread house next to a lemonade stream.
Hasn't science already proven the accuracy of the bible by confirming that:
!) the sun revolves around the earth
2) the earth is flat (you can see it all from the top of a high mountain)
3) sickness and disease are caused by demons and evil spirits
@GodsTalkingSnake The Bible never said that the sun revolves around the earth. That was Catholicism. Isaiah 40:22 clearly mentions the earth is a sphere. This was from a book that was written about 700 years before Christ.
@1ProudFemaleAtheist It is impossible for them to have known that. Most people at the time thought the Earth was flat. As greyspot00 said it predates Galileo and Astronomy. It proves that whoever said and wrote the Book of Isaiah had to have known that the Earth was a Sphere. In those days most religions had the belief that the Earth was flat. Who else but God could it have been?
2) "most people at the time thought the earth was flat" - can you quote your source on this? Or were you alive at the time, and knew "most people" - and they told you so?
3) It proves NOTHING about the supernatural claims in the bible regarding Jesus (and others)
4) The bible also claims that light was created before stars, and that vegetation was created before our sun.
@1ProudFemaleAtheist The only Idiot here is you and the stupid mother that birthed you!!! If you had read everything that I wrote you would have read that this was the belief of the religions at the time. As an adult you should know how to go and find your own sources. Obviously I wasn't alive back then (dumb ass). For someone who is an Atheist and thinks of them self as intelligent you're quite stupid. You never bother to test your beliefs but have no qualms challenging others.
I don't care what you call my mother, you really are a piece of shit. Seriously. Your claims that "the bible is true on all areas" and "you have provided me proof" make you about the most stupid fucking moron I have ever spoken to on YouTube. True on all levels? The bible says light was created BEFORE stars. The bible says vegetation was created BEFORE our sun. Rabbits do not "chew cud." Snakes do not "eat dirt." The ark is impossible. A flood never happened, NO GEOLOGICAL PROOF for it
You're telling me the fucking internet is going to prove to me that the bible is true? You're even dumber than I thought. There is NO PROOF that the bible is "true" in all regards. SOME of it is. Some of it is history. Some of the places are geographically accurate. There is not proof of a world wide flood; none for talking snakes, talking donkeys, burning bushes, resurrected god-men, virgin births, floating zoos, etc. What part of this do you fail to understand, or refuse to accept?
@1ProudFemaleAtheist "You're telling me the fucking internet is going to prove to me that the bible is true?" You're so narrowminded you won't even challenge your own beliefs. I gave you the links to look up. You asked for proofs and I gave them to you. The internet can't change you anymore than you want to change. That's if you want to or feel like changing. I did challenge my beliefs and I found out the truth. Have you ever read the bible? If not then how do you know that it is not real?
"SOME of it is. Some of it is history. Some of the places are geographically accurate". What do you think that is not accurate? I know what I know. This is based on life experiences. Look up "Can You prove that the bible is true UNITY" on Google. The Bible is accurate in all areas but you don't want to look for proof. Therefore the only retard is YOU. That's typical of Atheists. You go around claiming people are trying to change your beliefs when you are the ones doing the exact same thing.
I already listed what is untrue and has no evidence. Why are you asking me to look things up? I am not going to find "proof" of a resurrected god-man, a floating zoo, talking snakes, talking donkeys, and all the supernatural hocus-pocus that is also part of the bible. YOU DID NOT GIVE ME PROOFS YOU IDIOT and what you believe are NOT "truths." Yes, I have read most of the bible as a former Christian. I was a Christian until the age of 35.
@1ProudFemaleAtheist Why are you so intent on calling me an Idiot over and over again like a RETARD? I gave you waht you wanted and still you don't want to look it up? ARE YOU STUPID! I gave you what you wanted Proof. Yet still you say: "Why are you asking me to look things up?" I told you YouTube won't let me put the links. I am not your keeper. Go and look at the information yourself. Let me ask you a question: "What proof do you have that the bible is untrue?
@vze21gwa Add to that I am a COLLEGE graduate. I don't know many College Graduates that are Idiots (Maybe George Bush LOL). Let alone College graduates that get accepted to CU. I did my research rather than Atheists who hold on to foolish beliefs and call others name to cover up their fallacies. What caused you to leave the Christian faith? that is, IF you were really a Christian and read most of the Bible as you say.
I left because I realized the things Christianity teaches are based on accepting things as 'true" that have no proof for them. Why would I be required to believe in the magical, mystical resurrection of god-man? I never saw it, and a book does not prove it happened. Why aren't actions more important than belief? Christianity states FAITH ALONE saves you - that is illogical and unfair.
@1ProudFemaleAtheist Illogical and unfair to who to you? If you had read the bible you would have read that "everyone has fallen short from the grace of God". The Messiah Jesus Christ or as you call him "God-man" came to die for the sins of mankind. "No other Religion has ever had God come to Man it is the other way around". That statement is proof right there. As is the EMPTY grave of Jesus. Everyone who has ever founded a religion is lying in their graves. Yet Christ grave is EMPTY.
JESUS FUCKING CHRIST YOU GODDAMN IDIOT ONCE AGAIN, YOU DID NOT GIVE ME PROOF. YOU DID NOT GIVE ME PROOF. YOU DID NOT GIVE ME PROOF.
That is why you are a RETARD. There is no such thing as "proof" for the SUPERNATURAL claims in the bible, THAT IS THE 3RD FUCKING TIME I HAVE SAID THAT. You're a semi-illliterate retard. I already told you SOME OF THE INFORMATION IS TRUE, but there is NO PROOF of the SUPERNATURAL in the bible. You're fucking pathetic.
I did read everything you fucking retard. Your comments are pure vacuous bullshit. That's my point. You have no way of knowing or proving that "most people thought the world was flat". Nothing you said is provable or even coherent in any way. So fuck off.
@1ProudFemaleAtheist I tried posting the links here. YouTube wouldn't let me. Also, why resort to foul language. It just makes you look extremely angry and ignorant rather than the intelligent individual that you claim you are.
I pray that this young man finds the TRUTH in which Christ is..
6740jason 3 days ago
Jesus only used scriptures to announce His coming, reprimand and correct those who followed them just as today we, those who are of the Holy Spirit, have to use to correct those bound by the letter. Close your eyes and open up your heart. Let love come rushing in my brothers and sisters. The Holy Spirit is there to guide you. You may not have the Bible so make sure you have your weapons of the Spirit donned and ready!!!!
twowitnessesoftheson 2 weeks ago
How does this prove the Bible is the Word of God? The true Word of God is Yahoshuah Messiyah... He has been always, always is, and always will be.... He has given us the Holy Spirit to immediately win the hearts of all who are called. Reasoning with scriptures trying to win over people logically is not the Way of the Master. Jesus never used scriptures to win non believers. He used love and compassion. He used sacrifice as we are to do also. No greater love to lay down our lives for friends.
twowitnessesoftheson 2 weeks ago
I really wish I could have been there instead of this other guy. It would have been a much different interview.
SlapdashRhapsody 2 weeks ago
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If jesus was a god then he could not possibly die for us because he is a god and cant die only transform him self to his original form in heaven so his death was a way to go back home. Now it would be a sacrifice if he spent eternity in hell for us then and only then can his crucifiction can be considered a sacrifice
pana376 2 weeks ago
mmmmmmmmmm
randywatchingbush 4 weeks ago
The ONLY"Word of God"mentioned in that book you call by My Lords Title is NOT Him.It cant bring you 1 step closer to Jesus than a dictionary but that does NOT stop the religious from Idolizing IT! IT seems to make no difference to its Idolaters what IT "says".The Bible Quotes Jesus Proclaiming "I AM The Bread of Life" "NO man comes to me except my Father Reveals it to Him"and that He would send The Spirit of Truth to lead us to ALL TRUTH ! Not bibles ! Who is Your god, mine answers by fire.
randywatchingbush 4 weeks ago
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I have just started posting my own videos please check me out.
God bless you all!!
GodsSilentWarrior 1 month ago
*picture of Ancient Aliens show greek guy*
"AMERICANS"
zomfuqerrolflazrdor 1 month ago
If The Bible is the word of God, God is one evil, infanticidal, misogynistic, murderous, bigot.
AlexWerkmeister712 1 month ago
@AlexWerkmeister712 What's "evil" without God? and why would that be wrong in your world view? if your an "Atheist"
RasheemH 1 month ago
Comment removed
AlexWerkmeister712 1 month ago
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@RasheemH
e·vil [ee-vuhl]
adjective
1. morally wrong or bad; immoral; wicked: evil deeds; an evil life.
2. harmful; injurious: evil laws.
3. characterized or accompanied by misfortune or suffering; unfortunate; disastrous: to be fallen on evil days.
4. due to actual or imputed bad conduct or character: an evil reputation.
5. marked by anger, irritability, irascibility, etc.: He is known for his evil disposition.
AlexWerkmeister712 1 month ago
@RasheemH
That's what evil is. It exists with or without a god.
And what are the quotations for? I am an atheist. Just as you are likely to be a theist. Quotations infer you are implying something other than the true meaning of the word.
I can guarantee you, I am an atheist. I hold no blind beliefs in a god, and I'm not a sheepish follower of a religion.
AlexWerkmeister712 1 month ago
@AlexWerkmeister712 I didn't ask you what Webster thinks. I asked you what evil is and why it would be wrong according to your atheistic world view, where there is no absolute moral code and no moral law giver. How do you account for evil? Is it material or immaterial? Is it absolutely wrong to murder?
RasheemH 1 month ago
@RasheemH
Yes, it is--in my and many other opinions.
What I believe is evil is exactly what Webster thinks, and that's why I provided you with a definition.
I don't believe in the Golden rule completely either. Treat others as *they* want to be treated, to a certain extent. Don't worship or kiss asses, but respect one another, and the world would be a much greater place.
Morals are simple. It's innate, unless you're psychotic. Don't intentionally harm others, emotionally or physically.
AlexWerkmeister712 1 month ago
@AlexWerkmeister712 You still haven't answered my questions.
RasheemH 1 month ago
@RasheemH
Oh, right... Your question...
I'm sorry, it's so simple, I thought it was rhetorical.
I'll try to simplify for you.
Evil is something wrong, unjust, or immoral that has the potential to harm a person, emotionally of physically.
Why is it wrong? Simply because it's wrong. It's innate to believe evil is wrong, and those who think otherwise are abnormal and/or psychotic.
You account for evil based on innate human emotions, through which no one--even scientists--has yet to explain.
AlexWerkmeister712 1 month ago
@AlexWerkmeister712 Still doesn't answer the questions. I'll try to out it in simpler terms. How do you get morals; or good and evil, from evolved soup and just chemical processes? What is good and what is evil is innate, because God has hardwired it in all of us. That's how I account for knowing right from wrong, how do YOU account for things that are immaterial, universal and unchanging, such as the laws of logic and morals based on your world view?
RasheemH 1 month ago
@AlexWerkmeister712 Your talk of morals and evil is borrowing from the Christian world view to make sense of yours. If evolution is true and if there is no God, then your talk of evil is arbitrary and would make no sense or difference. You cannot account for why you have morals.
RasheemH 1 month ago
@RasheemH
Where is your proof that God "hardwired" the difference between good and evil in us?
Also, if that's true, why are there Christian murderers? Did God get his wires mixed up?
I don't "borrow" anything from Christianity, either. To the contrary, Christianity has borrowed ideas from other religions to create a new fad of their own.
Another thing, you can't explain evil, love, and some other human emotions, but it doesn't mean "God did it."
I can't believe I'm arguing with a creationist.
AlexWerkmeister712 1 month ago
@AlexWerkmeister712 First of all everyone who claims to be a Christian is not a Christian. To be a christian you have to have a relationship with Christ and your life has to match that of scripture. So there are no such thing as "Christian murderers" But Why is murder wrong in your world view? I know it's wrong because God is a holy God and hates evil. One of the ten commandments also is though shall not kill(in the context of murder)
RasheemH 1 month ago
@RasheemH
Your logic is so circular my laptop rolled away.
"I'm not interested in debating evidences."
In that case, argument over. I'm not interested in debating feelings, as it is subjective.
Feelings are left out of facts. It's called being objective and unbiased.
Oh, and I've witnessed an open-heart surgery. I can assure you, there is not "writings of God."
Funny thing with you Christians is that you assume everyone "knows that God is the truth" and that we're "rejecting" Him.
Ignorance.
AlexWerkmeister712 1 month ago
@AlexWerkmeister712 What makes my logic circular? If it is, why would that be wrong? There is no such thing as an objective world view. You have the way you view the world as flawed as it might be, it certainly isn't objective, you obviously oppose the Christian world view. Yet you borrow from it to make sense of yours. You still haven't told me how you account for evil. It's a simple question o.o which you can't answer of course.
RasheemH 1 month ago
@RasheemH
Also, I didn't "borrow" anything.
In places where religion hasn't been introduced, people still have morals, so that argument is out of the window.
AlexWerkmeister712 1 month ago
@AlexWerkmeister712 Don't run away now :) I was really looking forward to chatting with you.
RasheemH 1 month ago
@RasheemH
You still haven't provided any evidence.
How old do you think the earth is?
AlexWerkmeister712 1 month ago
@AlexWerkmeister712 I already told you why there are morals. God has written it on our hearts and has given us a conscience to know right from wrong. As humans we were created in the image of God. God is a righteous and holy God so by nature we are moral creatures. The evidence is there can be no morals, no logic or anything that is immaterial, universal and unchanging, without a God who is universal, immaterial and unchanging. You wouldn't be able to know anything for certai
RasheemH 1 month ago
@RasheemH
No, you told me why you *think* there are morals.
What makes you think that God was what gave us consciences. What makes you think there can be no morals, logic, or anything immaterial, universal and unchanging without God?
What you personally believe doesn't count as evidence, and all you've given me are blind assumptions.
You also didn't answer the question. How old do you think the earth is?
Also, what about other religions--why are they wrong and yours is right?
AlexWerkmeister712 1 month ago
@AlexWerkmeister712 Because God says so in his word. If you want I could give you scripture after scripture. In order for there to be an absolute moral law; for murder to be absolutely wrong there would have to be an absolute moral law giver. Man cannot change the laws of logic or change the moral law, you can only ignore the moral code that has been written on our hearts and ignore your conscience though. The reason I didn't answer that question is because I don't want to
RasheemH 1 month ago
@AlexWerkmeister712 change the subject. Your pre-suppositions would prevent you from seeing the physical evidences of God's existence. What you assume based on the way you live your life proves God's existence.
RasheemH 1 month ago
@RasheemH
There is no physical evidence of God's existence.
AlexWerkmeister712 1 month ago
@AlexWerkmeister712 I'm addressing what you believe and your world view, not other religions. You still haven't told me how you account for evil though. I'm still interested in your answer.
RasheemH 1 month ago
@RasheemH
I've told you how I account for evil *MULTIPLE* times...
If you go back and read my comments, you'll find the answer at least twice.
But just to make it easy for you: Evil is (in my opinion) intentionally causing harm to others (emotionally or physically).
What are the laws of logic and the moral law?
The ten commandments are just a compilations of what people thought was morally just.
If you don't have a factual argument, then goodbye. It was nice chatting with you!
AlexWerkmeister712 1 month ago
@AlexWerkmeister712 I did not ask you for a definition of evil. We all know what evil is because God has made it clear to all human beings.(Romans 1:18-21) How can you account for it? Why is it wrong to harm others? Those are two different things. If evolution is true, or whatever you believe about the universe is true, than how you can account for evil? The reason I asked was because you called God evil. I just wanted to know whats your foundation for your morals.
RasheemH 1 month ago
@RasheemH
But just because it was in once piece of writing, from over 2000 years ago, definitely does not give it credibility. If we're saying one book is all we need for proof, then I could just as easily say that wizardry, witchcraft, potions, and spellcasting is real because of Harry Potter.
If you want to accept the Bible as the truth, then so be it, and I cannot change your view.
I called the Abrahamic God evil because he commanded--or so the Bible says--murders.
AlexWerkmeister712 1 month ago
@RasheemH
Here, I'll list a few evil--in my opinion--Bible quotes:
Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests
"Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel." (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
Kill Witches
"You should not let a sorceress live." (Exodus 22:17 NAB)
AlexWerkmeister712 1 month ago
@RasheemH
Kill Homosexuals
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
Kill Fortunetellers
"A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death." (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)
AlexWerkmeister712 1 month ago
@RasheemH
Death for Hitting Dad
"Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death." (Exodus 21:15 NAB)
Death for Cursing Parents
1) "If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness." (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)
2) "All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense." (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)
AlexWerkmeister712 1 month ago
@RasheemH
By the way, that is all copypasta'd from EvilBible--a website that has *PLENTY* of other evil Bible quotes, if you'd like to check it out.
AlexWerkmeister712 1 month ago
@AlexWerkmeister712 Thanks by the way I appreciate that :D Music does have a way of unifying.
RasheemH 1 month ago
@RasheemH
I agree, good music can bring relation between any creed!
Sadly, for some, it is just another petty topic to argue and hate each other over...
But anyways, I'm getting away from the computer for awhile; my guitar is calling. :P
I'm really interested in what you think about the evil Bible quotes, though. If you check out that website and reply, I'll be sure to answer you when I'm back on the computer!
Peace!
AlexWerkmeister712 1 month ago
@AlexWerkmeister712 That site is pretty offensive tbh and interesting. Not to mention alot of those scriptures are out of context. You can quote certain parts of scripture to validate just about anything, but without supernatural guidance you can't understand scripture. it'll be nonsense to you. People who try to paint God as "evil" or "immoral" don't seem to realize that you cannot make a moral argument without starting with God. The bible says that the wages of sin is death
RasheemH 1 month ago
@RasheemH
"...but without supernatural guidance you can't understand scripture. it'll be nonsense to you."
Well in that case, why do people read scripture at all? If everything is just an uncertain interpretation of the "word of God," we shouldn't be following anyone's exact interpretation, right?
In my opinion, if there were to be some sort of supernatural being or a "god" as people like to refer, he/she/it would be something unlike any of us ever could begin to imagine.
(Continued...)
AlexWerkmeister712 1 month ago
@RasheemH
(...Continued)
If there is something/someone so powerful and complex as to have created the universe (in the case of creation, which I strongly disbelieve) or in the case of the Big Bang theory, to create the first photons to collide, then that god must surely be too complex to be understood by us petty, ignorant humans.
I think we're both just beating a dead horse, and it's time to get off. Clearly, we're not going to change each other's minds, and with that, I say--have a great life!
AlexWerkmeister712 1 month ago
@AlexWerkmeister712 and that no man is "good". In order to understand the bible we have to approach it not from a self-righteous mindset, but be humbled and realize that we are lucky to even be breathing right now. if anything people should blame Adam for bringing about sin in the world and causing us to inherit sin nature. God isn't evil, we are.
RasheemH 1 month ago
@RasheemH
I disagree on the basis of lack of proof. We can certainly have morals without a God, as a God would have to have validation and said proof that he has implanted morals within humans for it to be of any use in a debate. I can make a moral argument without God. I have morals, and I disbelieve in God. There is no proof he has placed any morals within me, therefore I shall assume that those morals are innate or taught by my upbringings, which were passed on from their upbringings, etc.
AlexWerkmeister712 1 month ago
@RasheemH If we are so evil then why did Jesus say that the kingdom of God is within us? The truth is that good and evil are within man just as Jesus said the shaft came up with the wheat. The Bible is a compilation of SOME of the writings by men and women who followed the Truth. We cannot idolize it.
twowitnessesoftheson 2 weeks ago
@twowitnessesoftheson
When did Jesus say that?
AmberNicoleMusician 1 week ago
@AmberNicoleMusician Are you talking about the kingdom of God is within us?
twowitnessesoftheson 1 week ago
@RasheemH
Oh, and I tried to message you, but it seems you have a contact block for some reason.
I just wanted to let you know that while we have differing thoughts, I noticed you have a SoundCloud, and I checked it out.
Good stuff, man! Keep at it.
As a musician, I can't help but appreciate another's art.
Peace.
AlexWerkmeister712 1 month ago
@RasheemH
Also, I'm not denying the possibility of a god.
It's possibly, but *HIGHLY* unlikely, and the chances of the Abrahamic (Christian, Islamic, Jewish) God being the right one is next to impossible, and I choose to not believe in something so very unlikely.
That is all. Have a nice day.
AlexWerkmeister712 1 month ago
@RasheemH
There are plenty of facts supporting the theory of evolution.
Where are your facts of creationism?
AlexWerkmeister712 1 month ago
@AlexWerkmeister712 Your changing the subject now. I'm not interested in debating evidences. We both can look at the same evidence and come to different conclusions. How ever you can't refute what God has already written on your heart. You know God exists you just suppress the truth. For someone to say "there is no God" their faith would be far greater than any Christian I know.
RasheemH 1 month ago
@RasheemH
Evil is obviously not a material object. You cannot purchase evil; you cannot own evil. (materially).
It is just a human description for a wrong, mean, twisted, vile, hurtful, etc. act.
That's why I provided you a dictionary definition.
It's not that hard of a concept to grasp, really.
Also, as I said before, it is always absolutely wrong to murder, unless you are in danger of death yourself and it's kill or be killed.
AlexWerkmeister712 1 month ago
The shroud of Turin is proof of Jesus, his death and resurection. Mithra, Krishna, Osiris dont have anything like that.
verminslayer 1 month ago
This guy doing this video is a moron... You cant use the bible to prove anything !! LOL
ryantheatheist22 1 month ago
Men who died for the salvation of other people.
Jesus
Mithra from Persia
Krishna from India
Osiris of Egypt
To name a few :)
KevinDemar76 1 month ago
Using the Bible to prove the Bible?
Downvote.
TheDrphil07 1 month ago
Don't worry, SharedViewsNews, if God does not reveal the Truth to you, you will never know it. You can bank on that.
videomission 2 months ago
Great Job!!!!!!!
dragonpunches 2 months ago
Jesus this Jesus that, can you seriously prove Jesus ever exisited? I read so many comments other viewer make of a man, mostly a story they heard from other BAAA BAAA BAAA minded people and without question they believe everyword. A robot is easy to control.
SharedViewsNews 2 months ago
There have been plenty of people who were punished in the place of other people, if it had said "There shall be a man named Jesus who will die by crucifiction accused of the crime of blasphemy, specifically claiming to be the son of god. He will truly be the son of god and he shall be taking away our sins with his death. Three days later he will rise from his tomb which it shall take 6 men to obstruct" and some verifiable historical evidence was found that it happenned I'd believe god said it
AntiMatterWave 2 months ago
the interviewer is an asshole, is he trying to trick someone into being christian?
guendoloena1 2 months ago
Jesus was a jew, and the jews learned long ago that you can't control god by speaking for him and that they didn't read their texts as literal. Jesus never commanded the writing of a text and that he spoke for god. The god of the universe doesn't need to use men's inspiration from thousands of years ago to have a relationship with man today. He is here in the present moment, inside all of us. not in a book or the word of man. I think you under estimate gods power.
romney27 2 months ago
can any christian read from the bible, Ezekiel 23, and song of songs, to his family? that's what do you call a word of God?????
aamiir11 2 months ago
I have never seen a Goat eat another Goat, or dogs worshipping something... there smarter than that... what about us?
MaxBlight 3 months ago
i don't even have to read all these comments to know that its all fighting over religion. Christians, your not going to change an atheist's mind over youtube comments. Atheists, your not going to make a Christian lose their faith over youtube comments. why get yourselves all worked up?
anna12910 3 months ago
@anna12910 Anna, right you are. IMO, people enjoy debate which is the reason there's so many topics regarding religion and antheism. Toni
BirdsnBlooms1 2 months ago
Isaiah 53 isn't even a Messianic prophecy. Isaiah himself says that the Suffering Servant is Israel. Christians co-opted the passage to refer to Jesus.
xorthan 3 months ago
This is pathetic, what a joke.
Neutrinoghost 3 months ago
You know it's wrong to rape. You know it's wrong to steal. You know it's wrong to murder. Nobody has to tell you this -- it's already written in your heart.
On the other hand, your dog won't feel a bit bad about stealing your sandwich, as long as he doesn't get a whipping out of it. You can teach him that such behavior is unacceptable, but you'll never even get him to begin to understand that it's not right. They're simply not wired to comprehend such things.
OneEyedJack1970 3 months ago
@OneEyedJack1970
No, I refuted nothing. Morality does not "come from god." And there are several observed instances of other animals demonstrating "moral" behavior in the animal kingdom. There is nothing "special" about our morality, especially when you consider that we are also the only animals that kill for fun, rape for fun, torture. We are capable of committing far worse crimes than observed in other animal groups. Explain how that is evidence for god-given morality?
1ProudFemaleAtheist 3 months ago
@1ProudFemaleAtheist "No, I refuted nothing. Morality does not "come from god." And there are several observed instances of other animals demonstrating "moral" behavior in the animal kingdom."
The fact that you put quotes around the word moral shows that this argument relies on equivocation. They may show cooperative behavior, but this isn't morality. It's simply conditioning.
OneEyedJack1970 3 months ago
@OneEyedJack1970
Not equivocation. It's not conditioning. Conditioning comes from moderating behavior based on reward and punishment. When do you see animals doing this to each other?
Cats do like to kill mice and birds, you're right. Do they also rape and torture? And you still have not addressed how human beings are capable of such depravity, yet we are created in the image of an almighty and all-loving and all-moral god?
1ProudFemaleAtheist 3 months ago
@1ProudFemaleAtheist "Not equivocation. It's not conditioning. Conditioning comes from moderating behavior based on reward and punishment. When do you see animals doing this to each other?"
All the time. Are you aware of the social dynamics that take place in a wolf pack?
OneEyedJack1970 3 months ago
@OneEyedJack1970
And those social dynamics are just "conditioning?" Humans are conditioned too. Our morality comes from our parents and is upheld by society.
1ProudFemaleAtheist 3 months ago
"Cats do like to kill mice and birds, you're right. Do they also rape and torture?"
Sometimes they'll play with an animal before they kill it. Or at least they consider it play. I'm sure the other animal doesn't.
"And you still have not addressed how human beings are capable of such depravity, yet we are created in the image of an almighty and all-loving and all-moral god?"
Free will. We can either listen to the dictates of our conscience or ignore them.
OneEyedJack1970 3 months ago
@OneEyedJack1970
I knew you were going to say free will....lol.....sorry but no, I've heard that crap before. There is no such thing as free will if god sends us to eternal punishment for actually using it. Are you saying that a cat is aware of the fact that it is torturing it's prey? Hardly. that is what makes torture, torture. The awareness of the incredible pain (emotional and/or physical) being inflicted by both the giver or the receiver.
1ProudFemaleAtheist 3 months ago
@1ProudFemaleAtheist "I knew you were going to say free will....lol.....sorry but no, I've heard that crap before. There is no such thing as free will if god sends us to eternal punishment for actually using it."
You're going to have to explain that one to me, because that argument makes no sense. How can something you actually use not exist?
OneEyedJack1970 3 months ago
@OneEyedJack1970
I never said it did not exist. I just do not buy the easy cop-out "argument" used by theists to explain the horrid behavior man is capable of called "free will." I already told you if eternal damnation is our punishment for using free will - then there is nothing free about it. I also do not think some of the disgusting things people can do to others can be packaged under a vacuous "free will" term. It's a sickness, a moral and human sickness to enjoy hurting others.
1ProudFemaleAtheist 3 months ago
@1ProudFemaleAtheist "I never said it did not exist."
You just said there is no such thing as free will if God punishes us for actually using it. Saying that there is no such thing as something is the same thing as saying that such a thing doesn't exist. I should also point out the freedom of choice doesn't mean freedom from consequences.
OneEyedJack1970 3 months ago
"Are you saying that a cat is aware of the fact that it is torturing it's prey?"
No. I said it thinks it's playing.
"Hardly. that is what makes torture, torture. The awareness of the incredible pain (emotional and/or physical) being inflicted by both the giver or the receiver."
I don't think the cat cares about any of that one way or the other.
OneEyedJack1970 3 months ago
@1ProudFemaleAtheist "There is nothing "special" about our morality, especially when you consider that we are also the only animals that kill for fun, rape for fun, torture."
Obviously, you've never had a cat.
OneEyedJack1970 3 months ago
@OneEyedJack1970
Ever seen March of the Penguins? How the mother penguin loses her baby (it dies immediately) and she tries to "steal" another mother penguins baby? The other mother penguins help protect the baby she is trying to steal, and chase her away from it several times. Is this conditioning? Or cooperative, empathetic behavior? Did they get "conditioned" to do this?
1ProudFemaleAtheist 3 months ago
@1ProudFemaleAtheist
"There is nothing "special" about our morality... we are also the only animals..." etc. We are the only ones that do said things, but we aren't special. Got it.
greyspot00 3 months ago
@greyspot00
Your sarcasm is a joke. The fact that we are the only ones who do such horrible deeds is proof AGAINST being created "in the image of" a divine, perfect entity. And there ISN'T a universal standard for good. What about how they treat rape victims in Muslim countries? Yet - they believe wholeheartedly in God, right?
1ProudFemaleAtheist 3 months ago
@1ProudFemaleAtheist
The fact that we can do good at all is proof for it.
I say there IS a universal standard for good. We can play ping-pong on that point all day, but that's a waste of time.
Your statement makes no sense. See? You have to borrow from my God to make anything make sense? What's wrong with how they treat rape victims? Is it universally wrong? By what standard do you judge that?
And no, the "god" umbrella isn't a good comparison at all. I'm talking about Jesus
greyspot00 2 months ago
@greyspot00
No, it is not proof. And it does not matter what you say - it is obvious that there is NO UNIVERSAL STANDARD. My statement makes perfect sense. What's wrong with it? The woman must have male witnesses or else SHE GETS KILLED. What standard to I use? Basic human decency. Which is rooted in EMPATHY, not "magical sky-daddy.' Buddhists are highly moral in their philosophy, are you saying they are immoral since it's not Jesus-based?
1ProudFemaleAtheist 2 months ago
@OneEyedJack1970
It is NOT "written in our hearts." There is nothing supernatural about it. It is written in our nature, and some people have natures that are clearly immoral/amoral, they exhibit highly aggressive and violent tendencies even from a young age. How do you attribute that to god? Oh let me guess - that's not god, that's "satan" right?
1ProudFemaleAtheist 3 months ago
@1ProudFemaleAtheist You keep refuting yourself. It's not written in our hearts, but it is written in our nature? Come on now.
As for people with violent and aggressive tendencies, what makes you think I attribute these to either God or Satan? People are inherently immoral. Not amoral. We know right from wrong, whether we obey our consciences or not.
OneEyedJack1970 3 months ago
@OneEyedJack1970
Not remotely refuting myself. Written in our nature is not the same as written "in our hearts." Our hearts pump blood, nothing more. Your touchy-feely way of describing morality is just that - it's glib, cliche, and vacuous.
Just like some animals are aggressive, some are docile. If morality comes from God, why is it so fragile? c'mon! An almighty all powerful being "gives us"morality that we almost never use?
I'm still waiting for you to explain how morality comes from god.
1ProudFemaleAtheist 3 months ago
@1ProudFemaleAtheist You're just bandying semantics here. You know what I'm trying to say. I'm sure you don't tell your significant other that you love them with all your brain.
I've already told you how morality comes from God -- it reflects His nature. The fact that we have free will means that although we have a moral nature, we don't have to go along with it. In fact, we often don't.
OneEyedJack1970 3 months ago
@OneEyedJack1970
I'm not bandying anything. You just can't respond effectively. "Written in our hearts" is a glib and touchy-feely answer. You did not say how it comes from god - reflecting his nature is certainly not an answer. If god chooses to always be moral, how is our immorality a refection of his nature?
Total contradiction. Talk about refuting yourself!
1ProudFemaleAtheist 3 months ago
@1ProudFemaleAtheist When did I say our immorality is a reflection of God's nature? I said morality itself -- the very concept -- is a reflection of God's nature. I haven't refuted myself at all. You've simply conflated what I've said with somthing I haven't.
OneEyedJack1970 3 months ago
@OneEyedJack1970
So, anything we do good (moral) is a reflection of god. And anything we do bad (immoral) is a reflection of free will. Is that your argument?
1ProudFemaleAtheist 3 months ago
@1ProudFemaleAtheist No, that's not my argument. Our free will can reflect morality (God's nature) or immorality (a fallen nature). Free will isn't limited to just bad choices.
OneEyedJack1970 3 months ago
@OneEyedJack1970 "Free will isn't limited to just bad choices."
That wouldn't be very free at all, now would it?
OneEyedJack1970 3 months ago
@OneEyedJack1970
btw if you are a 'Christian, the whole "free will" argument is a moot point, isn't it? Because ultimately what "sends someone to heaven or hell" is whether or not they believed? Their actions (their decisions to do good or bad) don't even count. Another complete failure of Christianity.
1ProudFemaleAtheist 3 months ago
@1ProudFemaleAtheist "btw if you are a 'Christian, the whole "free will" argument is a moot point, isn't it?"
Not if we're judged according to our deeds, as the Bible teaches.
"Because ultimately what "sends someone to heaven or hell" is whether or not they believed?"
No. The devil believes.
"Their actions (their decisions to do good or bad) don't even count. Another complete failure of Christianity."
The only failure here is your understanding of what Christianity teaches.
OneEyedJack1970 3 months ago
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@OneEyedJack1970
Please tell me where the bible says we are judged according to our deeds? You are going completely against what every Christian has ever said. You are clearly the one who does not understand - AT ALL - what Christianity teaches. If we are judged according to our deeds, I have nothing to worry about.
1ProudFemaleAtheist 3 months ago
@1ProudFemaleAtheist I find the arguments you're making here incongruous with the statements in your profile, where you presuppose the existence of such things as free will and morality. Does the idea that Christians believe in such things as well bother you so much that you have to disavow these ideas when they're affirmed by a Christian? It seems to me like you're just being contrary.
OneEyedJack1970 3 months ago
@OneEyedJack1970
Let me put it to you this way why the free will thing fails. First,, I've already told you that eternal punishment for using it is NOT FREE. Secondly, look at both of these scenarios. A man builds a dungeon in his basement, kidnaps his daughter and keeps her there for 23 years, rapes her almost daily, impregnates her 5 times. And a little girl steals a pack of gum from the counter while her mom isn't watching. Both of these are "free will" to you. NONSENSE.
1ProudFemaleAtheist 3 months ago
@1ProudFemaleAtheist "Let me put it to you this way why the free will thing fails. First,, I've already told you that eternal punishment for using it is NOT FREE."
And I've told you that freedom of choice doesn't mean freedom from consequences. Your entire argument relies on conflation and equivocation.
OneEyedJack1970 3 months ago
@OneEyedJack1970
Eternal punishment is unjust and sick. Period. The focus here is on the word ETERNAL. And your using the bible to prove the bible - hence the whole "fallen nature" reference. So we have free will, which means freedom of choice, but we also INHERIT, THROUGH NO CHOICE OF OUR OWN, a "fallen nature?"
Again, self refuting. You can't say we are "born with original sin" and also state we have "free will to sin or not."
1ProudFemaleAtheist 3 months ago
@1ProudFemaleAtheist I don't accept the idea that God holds us accountable for something Adam and Eve did (the 'original sin,' if you will). However, I do believe He holds us accountable for our own actions. This is in no way incompatible with the notion of free will. We all have urges that we know we shouldn't give in to, and we all decide whether or not we will.
OneEyedJack1970 3 months ago
@OneEyedJack1970
God does NOT hold us accountable for our own actions - not if you're a Christian
1ProudFemaleAtheist 3 months ago
@1ProudFemaleAtheist "God does NOT hold us accountable for our own actions - not if you're a Christian"
No, if you're a Christian, He holds Himself accountable for our benefit. But I don't see how that helps you any.
OneEyedJack1970 3 months ago
@OneEyedJack1970
what a bunch of bull. "Holds himself accountable." See this is why Christianity is so immoral. WE should be held accountable for our sins.
1ProudFemaleAtheist 3 months ago
@1ProudFemaleAtheist You will be, so what's the problem?
OneEyedJack1970 3 months ago
@OneEyedJack1970
What's the problem? You should be too. Everybody should.
1ProudFemaleAtheist 3 months ago
@1ProudFemaleAtheist Do you even realize that you're borrowing from my worldview in order to criticize your own? What is sin or accountability after death in your worlview, other than fantasy?
OneEyedJack1970 3 months ago
@OneEyedJack1970
I am not borrowing anything. I do not believe there is any afterlife at all. I am speaking HYPOTHETICALLY. And what are you talking about "criticize my own?"
1ProudFemaleAtheist 3 months ago
@1ProudFemaleAtheist Sure you are. Who's gonna hold anybody accountable for the things they've done in life according to your worldview? You have to borrow mine just to entertain that concept.
OneEyedJack1970 3 months ago
@OneEyedJack1970 No I am not. In my worldview no one is "held accountable" for anything after death because there is no afterlife. What I am saying is IF there is a final judgment, then a just GOD judges people based on their actions, not beliefs.
1ProudFemaleAtheist 3 months ago
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@1ProudFemaleAtheist "No I am not. In my worldview no one is "held accountable" for anything after death because there is no afterlife."
Yet that's what you're complaining about.
"What's the problem? You should be too. Everybody should."
OneEyedJack1970 3 months ago
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@1ProudFemaleAtheist "What I am saying is IF there is a final judgment, then a just GOD judges people based on their actions, not beliefs."
And this is what the Bible teaches -- your misapprehensions notwithstanding.
OneEyedJack1970 3 months ago
@OneEyedJack1970
Other people hold you accountable. Which is, incidentally, a far superior notion of morality than the word of a 3,000 book of fairy tales that was written to satisfy the societal necessities of life in the desert. :)
Lodatzor 3 months ago
@Lodatzor "Other people hold you accountable"
Sort of like purging the evil from among yourselves, huh?
OneEyedJack1970 3 months ago
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@OneEyedJack1970
"Sort of like purging the evil from among yourselves, huh?"
The more challenged you are, the more stupid your responses become. Seriously. What the hell was this one supposed to mean?
1ProudFemaleAtheist 3 months ago
@OneEyedJack1970
Sure. Why do you insert God into this picture?
Lodatzor 2 months ago
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@1ProudFemaleAtheist "What's the problem? You should be too. Everybody should."
And we will be -- unless we accept forgiveness on God's terms. And we may still have to face the consequences of our actions here on Earth. You don't let a murderer go free just because he converts to Christianity, even if he is sincere.
OneEyedJack1970 3 months ago
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"Secondly, look at both of these scenarios. A man builds a dungeon in his basement, kidnaps his daughter and keeps her there for 23 years, rapes her almost daily, impregnates her 5 times. And a little girl steals a pack of gum from the counter while her mom isn't watching. Both of these are "free will" to you. NONSENSE."
What would you call it? Compulsion? Obviously, in the case of the daughter who is having her free will violated, but the others?
OneEyedJack1970 3 months ago
As for how morality comes from God -- it simply reflects His nature. Since we're made in His image, we have a moral nature as well (whether we believe in Him or not).
OneEyedJack1970 3 months ago
I have the evidence that most christians wish they had.
I could prove to any atheist or agnostic that there is a GOD.
all you have to do is recieve prophecy and that's it.
I used to be an atheist so I know how it feels, believe me.
here is the evidence, just go to this church that is almost
everywhere in the world and receive prophecy.
IGLESIA DE DIOS MINISTERIAL DE JESUCRISTO INTERNACIONAL
let me know what state you live in, and I will give you the
address to the closest church.
lizardstyle101 3 months ago
@lizardstyle101
You could prove nothing, and you know it. Prophecy proves nothing
1ProudFemaleAtheist 3 months ago
@1ProudFemaleAtheist Prophecy proves everything. No other God has EVER made a prophecy that has come to pass.
vze21gwa 3 months ago
@vze21gwa
Prophecy proves NOTHING. The New Testament was written AFTER the OT. You did not give me any proof, and it is VERY hard to believe that you have a college degree when you go around saying that you have "provided proof that the bible is true" when you have done NO SUCH THING. There IS NO PROOF.
1ProudFemaleAtheist 3 months ago
@1ProudFemaleAtheist I don't care what you believe about my degree. Both the New and the Old Testament made prophecies that were and some that are yet to be fulfilled. There are old testament copies from carbon dated from 300 BC. Messianic prophecies are but one example that were fulfilled in Jesus Christ himself.
vze21gwa 3 months ago
@vze21gwa
Idiot, the NT writers had the OT at their disposal when they wrote it. Therefore you cannot say they "came true."
1ProudFemaleAtheist 3 months ago
@1ProudFemaleAtheist Yes. You can. From Jewish history as well as Roman history. You Atheist go around trying to convert people to your stupid methodologies. Yet, when someone does the same to you from the opposite camp you resort to foul language. I told you the site to go find your proof. But obviously it's not enough for you because you refuse to even look. Why are you even posting here if your an atheist? What is the purpose of this futile exercise?
vze21gwa 3 months ago
If you are an atheist why are you here commenting? You seem so convinced of your beliefs why look at a video entitled "Proof the Bible is the Word of God"? Why look for proof? That's like an atheist going to church on Sunday. You will gain nothing out of it!! What you have is a taxi-cab mentality. You can't convince me anymore than I can convince you. I'm just stating what I believe. Nonetheless though "Why did you click on this video to begin with"?
vze21gwa 3 months ago
@vze21gwa The only logical answers would be that you are either looking for proof that the bible is true and/or having doubts in Atheism. Those are the only logical explanations. Because even if you came to convince people of Atheism you would have posted a video on YouTube like everybody else. Feel free to use all the foul language you want.
vze21gwa 3 months ago
@vze21gwa
I comment because I enjoy pointing out the stupidity, arrogance, and hypocrisy of the typical Christian. That's why.
1ProudFemaleAtheist 3 months ago
@lizardstyle101 try telling that to 1ProudFemaleAtheist. Even after giving her proof she keeps saying that it is not proof and pretty much views all christians as Idiots. It's a shame really but it's like Jeremiah 5:21 says.
vze21gwa 3 months ago
I feel very, very sorry for the deluded Christians that say that I am going to burn in hell for being a non-believer...And they think THEY are the good ones??? H'mm!!
williamblair11 3 months ago
jesus isnt from nazareth bro...fail.
theradworldofchad1 3 months ago
All you fucking evil atheists are gonna burn in hell for mocking the infallible, holy word of god -- and I'm gonna LAUGH at you as I live happily ever after in my gingerbread house next to a lemonade stream.
Hasn't science already proven the accuracy of the bible by confirming that:
!) the sun revolves around the earth
2) the earth is flat (you can see it all from the top of a high mountain)
3) sickness and disease are caused by demons and evil spirits
How much MORE proof do you assholes need?
GodsTalkingSnake 3 months ago
@GodsTalkingSnake The Bible never said that the sun revolves around the earth. That was Catholicism. Isaiah 40:22 clearly mentions the earth is a sphere. This was from a book that was written about 700 years before Christ.
vze21gwa 3 months ago 2
@vze21gwa
Amen! Even taking faith out of the equation, those statements date farther back than Galileo or modern astronomy as we know it!
greyspot00 3 months ago
@vze21gwa
What the hell does the mentioning of the earth being a sphere 700 years before Christ have to do with ANYTHING? What does that prove?
1ProudFemaleAtheist 3 months ago
@1ProudFemaleAtheist It is impossible for them to have known that. Most people at the time thought the Earth was flat. As greyspot00 said it predates Galileo and Astronomy. It proves that whoever said and wrote the Book of Isaiah had to have known that the Earth was a Sphere. In those days most religions had the belief that the Earth was flat. Who else but God could it have been?
vze21gwa 3 months ago
@vze21gwa
Excuse me, idiot:
1) it is not impossible for them to have known
2) "most people at the time thought the earth was flat" - can you quote your source on this? Or were you alive at the time, and knew "most people" - and they told you so?
3) It proves NOTHING about the supernatural claims in the bible regarding Jesus (and others)
4) The bible also claims that light was created before stars, and that vegetation was created before our sun.
You're an idiot.
1ProudFemaleAtheist 3 months ago
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vze21gwa 3 months ago
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@1ProudFemaleAtheist The only Idiot here is you and the stupid mother that birthed you!!! If you had read everything that I wrote you would have read that this was the belief of the religions at the time. As an adult you should know how to go and find your own sources. Obviously I wasn't alive back then (dumb ass). For someone who is an Atheist and thinks of them self as intelligent you're quite stupid. You never bother to test your beliefs but have no qualms challenging others.
vze21gwa 3 months ago
@vze21gwa Looking at this message I apologize for having called your mother an Idiot. That was a low blow. I'm sorry.
vze21gwa 3 months ago
@vze21gwa
I don't care what you call my mother, you really are a piece of shit. Seriously. Your claims that "the bible is true on all areas" and "you have provided me proof" make you about the most stupid fucking moron I have ever spoken to on YouTube. True on all levels? The bible says light was created BEFORE stars. The bible says vegetation was created BEFORE our sun. Rabbits do not "chew cud." Snakes do not "eat dirt." The ark is impossible. A flood never happened, NO GEOLOGICAL PROOF for it
1ProudFemaleAtheist 3 months ago
Look up flat earth on Wikipedia. As well as Proof that the Bible is true UNITY. YouTube won't let me post the links here.
vze21gwa 3 months ago
@vze21gwa
You're telling me the fucking internet is going to prove to me that the bible is true? You're even dumber than I thought. There is NO PROOF that the bible is "true" in all regards. SOME of it is. Some of it is history. Some of the places are geographically accurate. There is not proof of a world wide flood; none for talking snakes, talking donkeys, burning bushes, resurrected god-men, virgin births, floating zoos, etc. What part of this do you fail to understand, or refuse to accept?
1ProudFemaleAtheist 3 months ago
@1ProudFemaleAtheist "You're telling me the fucking internet is going to prove to me that the bible is true?" You're so narrowminded you won't even challenge your own beliefs. I gave you the links to look up. You asked for proofs and I gave them to you. The internet can't change you anymore than you want to change. That's if you want to or feel like changing. I did challenge my beliefs and I found out the truth. Have you ever read the bible? If not then how do you know that it is not real?
vze21gwa 3 months ago
"SOME of it is. Some of it is history. Some of the places are geographically accurate". What do you think that is not accurate? I know what I know. This is based on life experiences. Look up "Can You prove that the bible is true UNITY" on Google. The Bible is accurate in all areas but you don't want to look for proof. Therefore the only retard is YOU. That's typical of Atheists. You go around claiming people are trying to change your beliefs when you are the ones doing the exact same thing.
vze21gwa 3 months ago
@vze21gwa
I already listed what is untrue and has no evidence. Why are you asking me to look things up? I am not going to find "proof" of a resurrected god-man, a floating zoo, talking snakes, talking donkeys, and all the supernatural hocus-pocus that is also part of the bible. YOU DID NOT GIVE ME PROOFS YOU IDIOT and what you believe are NOT "truths." Yes, I have read most of the bible as a former Christian. I was a Christian until the age of 35.
1ProudFemaleAtheist 3 months ago
@1ProudFemaleAtheist Why are you so intent on calling me an Idiot over and over again like a RETARD? I gave you waht you wanted and still you don't want to look it up? ARE YOU STUPID! I gave you what you wanted Proof. Yet still you say: "Why are you asking me to look things up?" I told you YouTube won't let me put the links. I am not your keeper. Go and look at the information yourself. Let me ask you a question: "What proof do you have that the bible is untrue?
vze21gwa 3 months ago
@vze21gwa Add to that I am a COLLEGE graduate. I don't know many College Graduates that are Idiots (Maybe George Bush LOL). Let alone College graduates that get accepted to CU. I did my research rather than Atheists who hold on to foolish beliefs and call others name to cover up their fallacies. What caused you to leave the Christian faith? that is, IF you were really a Christian and read most of the Bible as you say.
vze21gwa 3 months ago
@vze21gwa
I do not hold on to any foolish beliefs.
I left because I realized the things Christianity teaches are based on accepting things as 'true" that have no proof for them. Why would I be required to believe in the magical, mystical resurrection of god-man? I never saw it, and a book does not prove it happened. Why aren't actions more important than belief? Christianity states FAITH ALONE saves you - that is illogical and unfair.
1ProudFemaleAtheist 3 months ago
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@1ProudFemaleAtheist Illogical and unfair to who to you? If you had read the bible you would have read that "everyone has fallen short from the grace of God". The Messiah Jesus Christ or as you call him "God-man" came to die for the sins of mankind. "No other Religion has ever had God come to Man it is the other way around". That statement is proof right there. As is the EMPTY grave of Jesus. Everyone who has ever founded a religion is lying in their graves. Yet Christ grave is EMPTY.
vze21gwa 3 months ago
@vze21gwa
JESUS FUCKING CHRIST YOU GODDAMN IDIOT ONCE AGAIN, YOU DID NOT GIVE ME PROOF. YOU DID NOT GIVE ME PROOF. YOU DID NOT GIVE ME PROOF.
That is why you are a RETARD. There is no such thing as "proof" for the SUPERNATURAL claims in the bible, THAT IS THE 3RD FUCKING TIME I HAVE SAID THAT. You're a semi-illliterate retard. I already told you SOME OF THE INFORMATION IS TRUE, but there is NO PROOF of the SUPERNATURAL in the bible. You're fucking pathetic.
1ProudFemaleAtheist 3 months ago
How pathetic!! You're such a disgrace. Go crawl in a cave.
vze21gwa 3 months ago
@vze21gwa
I did read everything you fucking retard. Your comments are pure vacuous bullshit. That's my point. You have no way of knowing or proving that "most people thought the world was flat". Nothing you said is provable or even coherent in any way. So fuck off.
1ProudFemaleAtheist 3 months ago
@1ProudFemaleAtheist I tried posting the links here. YouTube wouldn't let me. Also, why resort to foul language. It just makes you look extremely angry and ignorant rather than the intelligent individual that you claim you are.
vze21gwa 3 months ago