Although I'm all for films - both fiction and non-fiction- scrutinizing religion, I thought this film was TERRIBLE. Some good soundbites from some of those being interviewed but overall not very well executed.
@spjohnso I have to agree with you. This film was a disappointment for me, except for some of the interviews. I thought the section in Zeitgeist: The Movie dealing with religion was levels better in presentation.
Yes, vrigins, rising gods, etc. are found in many cultures. HOWEVER it is important to note that it doesn't always mean X rehashed Y story. It is evident some mythical elements were added in the gospels to the account of Jesus's preachings in order to fulfill an agenda: evangelizing and converting people. You convert people more easily with a grandiose story. Also, it is really stupid to sum up Jesus's sayings to a few miraculous adds.
the fictional event of Jesus happened 2000 years ago. Even if he performed "miracles", who cares!? There are plenty of mythical and even some texts where people were believed to have mystical powers and they aren't as celebrated as Jesus. I think Jesus Christ is a story that has been over-exaggerated. Jesus's miracles to me are not impressive simply because I couldn't care less for magic tricks.
@LOLDISNEYLAND Have you ever wondered why their is so much debate over the Legitimacy of Jesus and Christianity, but no wone seems to debate the legitimacy of Islam.
@LOLDISNEYLAND Have you ever wondered why their is so much debate over the Legitimacy of Jesus and Christianity, but no wone seems to debate the legitimacy of Islam.
@sstaner1 wow it took you 5 goes to get it right or something?
Islam and Christianity have the same origins. Questioning one or the other doesn't make a difference as the question strikes two birds with one stone.
@sstaner1 Maybe it's more of a given that the weird ramblings of an arabic criminal, murderer and pedophile can't be "supernatural" or "godly"? I don't know..but Islam is also much less of a problem than christianity in the modern world still. If it becomes more of a problem, I'm sure people will bother to debunk Islam too. : )
to whom and to what extent is christianity a problem. The world with all it's specific rules that make up the theories that we label "science" can not be random events, that with trial and error formed what is our reality. Every branch of science, be it Psychology, biology, sociology, chemistry, all point to a design. Who, what, is that designer. It seems that Jesus is the direct target of everyone's energy. Either love him or hate him... there is no grey area.
@sstaner1 Oh really? No doubt you have this from a scientist? No? You have it from an evangelist preacher? A retarded billy bob preacher? Evolution is fact, the randomness of natural selection is fact. Look up evolution in wiki if you want to learn the basics at least:)
@winterstellar By the way, I just saw a video at my channel. I think you should watch it, it's called "The Erosion Of Progress By Religions". That's my major concern, the dark ages has already halted progress a thousand years, and still indoctrination of children with idiotic fairy-tales instead of sccience is slowing humanity down. If we can get rid of religion/superstition completely, then a lot more brainpower can be used on progress instead of b.s fairy-tales:)
@winterstellar I have two science degrees and I am very familiar with the theory of evolution. The theory of evolution is is what it's name says it is, a theory. Evolution is not a fact. The way science works is someone presents a solution to a problem that other "scientist" test and either agree or dismiss. Theories are replaced all the time. The theory of evolution is being questioned as we speak by scientists because it has holes in it .
@sstaner1 Did you know that a young girl who is at the onset of puberty will begin their period at 100 hundred pounds, it is tied to a genteic signal that is preset to occur at precisely that weight. The earth has precisely the right amount of water for us to live. The thing is, science is nothing more than explanations of the rules around us.
@sstaner1 Live evolved according to how much water there was, had there been less, life would have evolved differently, as it would if there had been more water too..? So..? If your father had sex with your mother a few seconds later or earlier, you wouldn't have been conceived..but again, so what? It happened, and that's all we have to relate to, things that happen. Not things that could have happened. : )
@sstaner1 Crap. Evolution is fact even though there exists a *theory of evolution* explaining the diversity of life. Oh, and look up what a scientific *theory* is. (You liar:)
I dont have to look it up. Sciense works by someone presenting a solution to a problem. example, gravity.
A test is conducted by a scientist. The test provides data then the data is reviewed and a theory is proposed, Test are administered by other scientist to confirm or deny the findings, If the scientific community accepts the theory then it is law. I did not have to look up this info. Thories are rewritten all the time. Remeber when the earth was flat?
@sstaner1 Yeah,the Pope and his culprits made sure anyone saying it wasn't were tortured or killed. Peple already in ancient Egypt, Greece and Rome new it was a globe, but the christians made it "flat" for more than a thousand years until they finally gave in. Today The Pope even admits The Big Bang 13.7 billion years ago, evolution AND the Earth's age of more than 4.5 billion years as facts. The sleazy bastards know they can't deny the obvious facts anylonger, so now "it's in The Bible"!Right..
He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in. Your are putting what a group of people who may or may not have been real christians did. You have to take in to account the times in which this all took place. Many peoples of different cultures believed in a flat earth.
@sstaner1 Exactly, the word means a DISC, and that's something you can put a canopy on. That was the common belief among common tards in the region, also the ones who authored/stole stories to create "The Bible". They had a word fpr *ball* to, not just round disc. (Don't even try to argue, I have actually studied semittic languages at university no less! : ) (And that's not even a lie, I actually have)
@winterstellar I am currently attending a University. But I can see that you believe that you are better than me, and smarter, and that I am a liar. I guess that people can not have a debate without attacking each. Agree to disagee. I wonder why people think that an average christian family hurts the community in which they live. I know of many churches that help in many ways.
@sstaner1 Good for you. I attended university for years too. (Don't drop out,I did)But the other thing: Religion/superstition slows down progress, that's my main concern. Imagine all the extra brain power that could be spent on developing science, medicine and technology if everybody knew the facts and nobody wasted time on ancient superstition? In a country like America where you see or hear "God this" "God that" all the time, kids must work hard to break free of it and choose science instead!!
@winterstellar Good point .Have you read these? E.A.Wallis Budge translation of, 'The Papyrus of Ani' (1500BCE comp O.T.800-300BCE ish),Donald A. Mackenzie,' Egyptian myth and legend', James G Frazer, 'The Golden Bough', sceptical Bible scholars :Thomas Paine, Mark Twain, Joseph Wheless, Robert Ingersoll, C.Dennis Mckinsey, Victor J Stenger, Dan Barker, John W. Loftus, Bart Ehrman, Gary Greenberg, Richard Carrier, David Mills, Valerie Tarico, Ken Humphreys, archaeologist Israel Finkelstein
@sstaner1 The idea that people believed in a flat earth at the time of Columbus came from a fictional story by Washington Irving, who wrote "The Legend of Sleepy Hollow." It made it's way into history books.
2indulgent. Hehe. Yes, it's more likely that Elvis is still alive than that "Jesus" has ever been alive at all, actually. It is virtually 100 percent certain that "Jesus" never even existed. Forget about the idiotic "miracles" and crap like that, he wasn't even there in the first place. : )
@winterstellar It hardly matters one way or another, the whole world is centred around this man who never existed. Our calendars are based on it, bank holidays throughout the year are based on it and it's there all the time. Pretty good going for a man who never existed.
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So your saying that Christ was a story? to what end? Did they want to be persecuted then finally put to death? Do you even realize that every single apostle, Judas included died at the hands of the ruling authority and populace for preaching this? This is a classic argument using 'tunnel vision'. It functions logically as long as you do not look at the circumstances surrounding it. Viewing the entire scope of the argument however it is ludicrous.
The mythical return of the dead hero or king certainly is a popular story. Elvis lives - as did, for decades after his execution - Czar Nicholas II. Why was CHristianity one of the most enduring and powerful of these types of story? Presumably the reason is cumulative; the manic perseverance and charismatic character of St. Paul; the unsatisfactory nature of the Roman pantheon and hence, the adoption of CHristianity by Rome. No doubt there are many factors.
@NelRow23...Elvis IS alive! I managed to get a photo of Elvis together with ET in a car outside Toledo Ohio earlier this year. Unfortunately the photos were stolen by those who want the truth to remain hidden. But hey, if that hadn't happened you would see these photos and believe. So don't be getting too highfalutin about your little ideas there Mr Smartypants.
The mythical return of the dead hero or king certainly is a popular story. Elvis lives - as did, for decades after his execution - Czar Nicholas II. Why was CHristianity one of the most enduring and powerful of these types of story? Presumably the reason is cumulative; the manic perseverance and charismatoc character of St. Paul; the unsatisfactory nature of the Roman pantheon and hence, the adoption of CHristianity by Rome. No doubt there are many factors.
Your website made me curious into the Talmud Jmmanuel as explained by Billy Meier I think it's time for some truth now that the church doesn't have any more appealing, i think, thanks
Price is so much more reliable than Murdock. She constantly quotes out of date scholars to support her claims. I guess because she cannot invoke any contemporary scholarly support. A problem that doesn't disprove her hyperbolic theses, but rather undermines their credibility. Richard Carrier is also a good alternative to her... as is Dr. Price.
Sexyarii, his arguments have not been debunked, how can you even claim such a thing? No one is saying he is 100% correct but his premise is 100% true, the dying and rising gods theme has been recycled through various cultures and eras, including times way before the compilation of the bible, this much can be proven with hard evidence. If you don't want to believe this then don't, but you look really stupid saying he has been debunked, that's simply not true at all.
It is somewhat of fashioned to talk dying and rising gods. Classicists would frame the discussion somewhat differently. But no one except a limited number of theologians believes the Gospels were written in any environment other than a Hellensitic one (e.g. a purely Judaic one that knew nothing o the Greek world).
@HConstantine Yeah, this is what I've heard as well. It would be unthinkable for first century Jews to be influenced by pagan mythology. As an aside, I want to say that, as a layman, it's really difficult following these conflicting scholarly conclusions. I don't know who to trust. So many scholars are critical and dismiss outright the Jesus Seminar (of which Price is a contributor), even the skeptical scholars! Can ANYONE recommend to me something that isn't full of atheist/fundamental BS?
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There is a reason why neither biblical scholars or scholars of Greaco-Roman and Egyptian religion and mythology agree with Price. He is a lone voice, repeating arguments from the 1800s which have been thoroughly debunked.
Does it really matter which parallels are drawn from which books? Ultimatley they were all written by paranoid and superstitious primates that had no insight into the real way the universe works.
I've read the first one and I'm willing to bet the second one is redundant.
You've really never seriously researched something, have you? Do you even know how? Oh well, it doesn't matter. You're obviously not interested in growing intellectually or expanding your mind. Reading books that only support your position and calling it research is akin to masturbating and calling it intercourse. It looks like a have a ways to go before Annie Sullivan after all.
I took a look at that guy, and it sounds like were both telling an idiot to pick up a fucking book. What were you trying to show me? That I should double-check my sources? I`m talking about the fucking source, you idiot! Lol You really are hapless, aren't you?
Tell you what, if you can tell me at least 3 books that you`ve read on the subject, I'll give you citation. But, if my guess is correct you're a self-involved idiot with an insecure need to be right, who's never done anything more than read wiki entries and watch youtube videos and called it research. After all, why should I waste my time on an ignorant slob who refuses to make an effort?
Oh my god, you mean the most recent person of millions of strangers who've edited wikipedia don't agree with me?! Moron, you`re only owning yourself with statements like that.
You say you've studied these Gods, yet you've never even picked up the Book of the Dead? And you refuse to even spend a few hours looking into something? Like I did? I bet you've never read a single book concerning Horus or his etymology, you're so full of shit. I've done my research, and now you want me to do yours too, you dumb brat. Don't even bother sharing your opinion next time if it isn't even worth a couple hours.
Other thing, as the eminent idiot talking in here said, all the popular novels having parallels with Christ's figure were written at the end of the II century. While the Gospels were written in the first century (two of them before the 67).. Chistians became a known religion in Rome, mainly because they were spreading the gospel and they were persecuted very often... The question arises, who copied whom? ;)
You've missed the point. He's saying that there's a common literary theme that the Bible took part in at the time along with various novels that we know are fictitious. It's not a matter of who copied who, because it's likely that both had a previous source; it's a matter of a portion of the Bible being written that way because it was the latest fad in the 1st century.
no dude, his point is that many concepts in the NT are present in greek-roman literature and mitical culture in the I century.He's an immense ignorant , this is not true. He cites works that were written 100 years after the gospels to prove the point (the latest fad of the I century ah?)They follow an established literary tradition: the historical one (John also philosophical), i.e. they collect testimony of people who were present. Anybody who know a little bit of classical literature knows it.
@Sh0nin As it is with the pagan-parallell claims as it probably is with this: A hoax, bogus statements to stop Christians believe. You're might one of the guys promoting Achaya claims, Murdock allegements, etc.? You should really examine closer what is really the truth behind the claims, because there no more true than you're a sheep...
@Sh0nin As it is with the pagan-parallell claims as it probably is with this: A hoax, bogus statements to stop Christians believe. You're might one of the guys promoting Achaya claims, Murdock allegements, etc.? You should really examine closer what is really the truth behind the claims, because they're no more true than you're a sheep...
Now if only you could apply that same skepticism of historical sources to the Bible itself we'd be golden. However, sadly I doubt that's the case, regarding your anti-Christian conspiracy theory rhetoric. The fact that you don't place any reserved amount of doubt in the Bible should worry you, especially when you're going to accuse others of being disingenuous.
@Sh0nin Supporting critical thinking, do not justify making nonsense and thereafter spread it around the world - because that's exactly what the copycat-promoters have done. There is no way to verify the claims, because they're not even mentioned by the historical religious texts regarding the noted entities, much less are they supported by anything else than spurious speculation and mis-interpretation of materials. It's important to contemplate one self, but that's not where the problem lies.
@Stinukli Nice side-step, but if you're going to take the time to reply to me I'd appreciate it if you actually address my accusations and what I said. You also offend by ignoring the point made in the video, which isn't about proof, but likelihood. Google 'Raglan hero scale' and you will find a list of 21 characteristics personifying mystical figures- on this list Jesus scores a 19. Your lack of concern for your Messiah's stereotypical superhero nature belies a great stupidity and dishonesty.
@Sh0nin Hahaha... You really believe I have'nt even take my time to check the copycat claims? Seriously?
And precisely WHERE did I make a side-step? Rather it's you making an amazingly jump to what is "a list" of the same useless, undocumented claims... Please say you're kidding!
@Stinukli How can I make a straw-man if I made no claims about what you said? Also, why do idiots think it's a valid response to laugh? It serves no purpose other than to attempt to elevate one's position without use of logic and only makes me look down on you. You still refuse to address my accusation about your disingenuous reluctance to give the Bible the same treatment you give to historical scholars.
@Stinukli Creating a strawman isn't the same as saying something you disagree with, you idiot and I resent the accusation. It's misrepresenting an argument so it's easier to argue against, so try and learn words before you insult people with them.
"Parallel: Having comparable parts, analogous aspects, or readily recognized similarities"
Are you really this confused? It doesn't need footnotes because it's merely making a list of similarities between characters.
@Sh0nin Render a false version of the opponent's arguments, blew them away, and pretend that the opponent's position in the discussion has been reduced, and you have build a straw-man argument. That's exactly what you did by going on from your statement that I made a "nice side-step". You also practise your terrible circular reasoning by only grasping the claims - not the truth behind them themselves.
Do you really expect me to take your last words seriously?
@Stinukli As for Raglan, you complained about a lack of historical footnotes for religious parallels, so I gave you some well known and understood fictional parallels instead ( such as Oedipus, Hercules and King Arthur).
@Sh0nin It really doesn't matter what you call them. Either it's 100% false, or it's partly correct, but is not worthy be called a parallell; a universal believe is really not copycatting. You do not find any evidence of copycatting in the direction pagan-->Christianity, by that simple reason that it's either fake or it is corrupt versions that was designed late A.D, and therefore the other direction.
@Sh0nin You have also not linked to any peer-reviewed, trusthworthy, footnoting documents - you told me to Google "Raglan hero scale". Keep the crap for yourself. I've not found 1 document by that search, that footnotes any of the absurd claims. Only because someone alleges something, does not mean it's true.
@Stinukli It's also painfully obvious that Zeus,Oedipus and Hercules predate Jesus, so don't try to lie so halfheartedly for your Christ. I'm going to repeat myself in case you're still having trouble keeping up with what I'm telling you- this is purely a literary exercise, not a historical one. We are discussing character archetypes, which are important for the reason I stated in my first post five months ago.
@Sh0nin You've still not documented 1 strikingly similarity between Jesus, Zeus, Oedipus, and Hercules, you're just going on vomit claims that there is entities predating Jesus that is the inspiriation source for the theology of Jesus. Of course do I understand that it's the same old, debunked copycat claims you're pushing... Perhaps that's the reason you haven't mentioned the claims?
@Stinukli You sir, are a moron and are testing my patience. I originally said to be fair you should have the same skepticism for the Bible, to which you responded the people against your position are liars who misrepresent sources, which does nothing to address what I said to you. Nevertheless I STILL answered that claim by giving you a list of fictional pre-Biblical charcaters that parallel Jesus (Raglan), which you are still childishly refusing to look at, like some maladjusted autistic idiot.
@Sh0nin You keep on repeating your own fallacious claims. You really do nothing more, except from your boring suppression technique. Your end less whining, is really nothing worth...
And I HAVE checked the lousy Raglan claims by Somerset. As I told: Keep the crap for yourself. For a variation, can't you try to cough up documentation to the rubbish?
@Stinukli "Keep that crap to yourself." This sums up your entire world-view when it comes to anything other than Christianity, doesn't it? Clearly these are the words of an honest intellectual interested in the truth. "Keep that crap to yourself." Are really such a brat that you can't humor an opponent simply to let the discussion move forward? No, instead you'd prefer to set your hooves in the muck of your own self-righteousness and obnoxiously hee-haw at every suggestion. Fallacies, really?
@Sh0nin Your deleted message, represented such irrelevance I have no or few words... You do not trick me with such things... It was just claims, and claims don't need to be true. The points, for instance, are fictious. Stop kidding with yourself...
@Stinukli Arbitrarily accusing someone of fallacies is pathetic and reeks of the Dunning-Kruger effect. But let's have some fun with this- can you actually explain why what I said was fallacious, instead of just blindly hurling words like circular reasoning and strawman as if it does anything to prove your point?
What. The. Fuck. Do. You. Mean? Documentation? Documentation of what? Of every single fiction mentioned on that list? Documentation of Jesus of Nazareth's scoring?
@Sh0nin It's clearly that you try to hide something, here... I'm sure you know exactly what I meant. Document that the alleged attributions regarding the entities compared with Jesus, that really resemblance Jesus, is correct and not fictous. By looking at what you have written, I know know for sure that you ain't able to do that, and I know why: It's because they ARE fictous. You should at least admit the horrible nonsense, and don't confess it.
@Stinukli You're going to have to work on your speaking skills a little. Are you actually saying that I should give you real people that resemble Jesus to prove that he's a fiction? Or are you saying that the characteristics on this list don't apply to Jesus at all?
@Sh0nin How hard can it be? What I´ve tried to knock into your skull for so long, is that the characteristics, such as resurrection, virgin birth, temple visit at an age of twelve, etc., do not apply to others than Jesus - so is the case with almost all the other issues on the lists. It´s really lies. Sometimes, there are partly truths, though irrelevant. If you don´t see what I mean, you´re not very smart. What YOU do is only embarrassing yourself by stating that my speaking skills is horrible.
@Stinukli Sorry, asshole, but I haven't mentioned any of those traits even once. Apparently your prejudice about my claims is so great that you haven't even bothered listening, you've already decided that whatever I could possibly say is either untrue or irrelevant.
@Sh0nin It's even incorporated in the Raglan-claims. Price himself stated that Herakles og Hercules is a similarity to Jesus. I don't need to show you - Price's and Raglans' claims is what you have argumented for all the way, here, almost in every single post... By asking me to do something like that, only ridicules your own position in this discussion...
@Sh0nin It's even incorporated in the Raglan-claims. Price himself stated that Herakles and Hercules is a similarity to Jesus. I don't need to show you - Price's and Raglans' claims is what you have argumented for all the way, here, almost in every single post... By asking me to do something like that, only ridicules your own position in this discussion...
@lovehope88 I just want to say that I'm impressed that critical and independent thinkers like you are out there setting the facts straight. Thank you! Can you recommend to me any literature on this subject?
@lovehope88 Please do! I'm glad that you took the time to respond to me. In particular, I'm looking for literature which addresses all the typical skeptical interjections. You know, the non-existence of Jesus of Nazareth, the pagan influences on the Gospel stories, etc. It has been my experience that these are all hopelessly bunk, but I haven't read a good treatment of them.
The two main sources regarding Horus are Massey and Murdock. assey bases his interpretato of only on one graphit near Luxor, which is contrasted by expert egyptologians. This is his only evidence.Murdock cited only secundary sources, and is widely criticized by scholars for having misinterpreted these sources. Why don't you study real scholarly works, studied by archeologians or historians?U are the stupid here, not sushi:having no faith should not mean being ignorant or support false theories.
I'm sorry, could you please repeat your last two posts and try to be coherent this time? The only point that you made clear was your defensive insult at the end.
No, this is why I'm not your bitch, and you're a lazy idiot. You're the one going around on the internet claiming these passages don't exist while you were obviously to lazy to even TRY and find them. This is why you're a dumbass, it's you try NOT to learn, you illiterate asshole.
You already know the alleged parallels, I've told you where to find them, now you want me to go in my closet, dig around until I find my copy of the Book of the Dead, flip through the whole thing scanning it for passages to your liking and then type them out one by one on youtube for you?
I could, but FUCK OFF. I'm not your goddamn secretary, go to a library. Don't be so fucking lazy.
*sigh* Fine, let's see if I can't pull an Annie Sullivan and actually teach you something.
Person 1 makes claim X
There is something objectionable about Person 1
Therefore claim X is false
as opposed to
Person 1 makes claim X
There is something objectionable about Person 1
Claim X is false because of Fact A, regardless of Person 1
I've read many religious books such as both Bibles, the Koran, the Dhammapada, and Dao-de-jing, etc., the Book of the Dead being one of them. Nice try, though.
Just insulting someone doesn't constitute an ad hominem you idiot, it has to be an attempt to distract from a genuine argument. Ironically though, you saying it was an ad hominem is an ad hominem in itself. Dumb hypocrite.
You said there was no legitimate evidence for the Horus-Jesus comparison, so I gave you it. Don't try to distract from the point with some esoteric and inconsequential debate that you've masturbated to time and time again.
Not as weird when you take into account that that statistic is bullshit and that the majority of American historians are Christian, despite the evidence (just like you).
If only you were as skeptical when thinking about the Bible. Don't be so childish. If you really want to, feel free to read a copy of The Book of the Dead, which is the source of this parallel instead of vapidly displaying your insecurities on youtube videos.
You're making a futile argument. Mixing and matching and plagiarism of other religions has been typical even long before the conception of Yahweh (The Father, circa 1000BC). In fact its even easy to cite plagiarisms of Yahweh from the Caananite God Enki, and even draw obvious similarities between Moses and the deified Hammurabi. All myths follow a very neat pattern and your Jesus aligns with this perfectly. I dont why this subject makes you so desperate.
"There are absolutely no similarities between Krishna and Jesus Christ. "
They were both supposedly persecuted in their childhood. Price doesn't try and say that there are any other similarities than that. watch the video again.
Jesus is simply a patchwork of previous myths and gods. He doesn't line up with every single feature of every single myth ever but he doesn't have to be for the jesus story to be a rip-off.
Umm....which Horus exactly are you speaking about? Because if you don't know there were many "horuses" in Egyptian Mythology. Since Egyptians will create new gods it makes sense we don't know which one is the REAL Horus.
Oh, now I see, you are just being purposely obtuse. You're afraid of how flimsy a foundation your precious religion is REALLY built on. Well, you have due cause to be. I don't blame you.
If you let people think for you and conform you to their ideas and opinions, I have nothing else to say to you. But if you REALLY study and THINK for yourself about Egyptian Mythology and do a little research on the video you will know the truth.
This video has been debunked time and time again. It's getting very boring!
Yes, you've demonstrated your Inquisition like hatred towards Acharya S here & elsewhere repeatedly, attempting to smear her however you can.
It looks like you're not used to being called out for your intellectually dishonest diatribe. You've demonstrated here with your own posts how ignorant you are on her work - it may be wise to actually read an authors work BEFORE ranting on & on against it out of pure ignorance. Simple common sense will take you far.
The same I say about those anti-Christian scholars and layman--we don't care and doesn't matter what THEY think.
In the end everyone knows who wins: 1. Jesus returns back to earth with the redeemed at the end of Armageddon to stop man from destroying it and themselves.
2. Jesus destroys those who oppose Him with the Word of God.
3. He establishes his Kingdom on earth where he will reign and rule with the redeemed on earth.
and you ain't even close to my caliber, little boy. I just don't like liars who smear other people with bullshit. Mentally ill sociopaths like you are a dime a dozen.
"Either join in the debate and express intelligence or bug off."
You've been caught with your pants down, you lying sack of crap. Admit your dishonesty or you bug off. You don't know Acharya's work, but you've been in hear badmouthing her - making personal attacks - and all the rest of your lowlife bullshit. You have NO credibility, so keep your trap shut.
"Crap is crap.... It's always refreshing when someone resorts to put-downs when they can't counter with anything intelligent."
Exactly like you're doing with Acharya's work. You don't have any idea about it - you're completely ignorant, but you keep resorting to moronic put-downs since you can't counter with anything intelligent.
You're just completely full of shit. You admit you don't know anything about her work, and then you keep lying about it. THAT'S CRAP, loser.
bivemeabreaknow1: You aren't even at the same level as the other guys I've been debating with here. You just came out of the woodwork slinging insults half-hazzardly at me like a drunk redneck.
Either join in the debate and express intelligence or bug off.
"It doesn't mean that Dionysus equals Osiris, just that they are similar."
Yeah, we already know you have next to NO understanding of mythology, BOY. Go back to school. You are clueless. And you've got a chip on yoru shoulder a mile wide - it's SOOO obvious.
Ever heard of atheist David Mills, BOY jackass? He loves Acharya's work - because he's actually read it, unlike bigoted, lying a-holes like you.
Here's his review of her book "Who Was Jesus?"
stellarhousepublishing . com / david-mills-wwj . html
I know YOU'RE too lazy, bigoted and a-holish to actually read this review, but somebody else might be interested in the TRUTH, rather than your stupid lies.
What is your real problem? Jealous? Or a misogynist, like David Mills says?
So, what you're saying BOY, is that you're too lazy and dishonest to actually read the books yourself - or even the articles she's got all over the place.
You've already been shown to be a lying sack of crap, so why don't you can it.
No, I'm saying as a Freethinker and Rational Atheist, I don't automatically accept stuff just because it seems to support, at least on a surface level, my atheistic beliefs.
Crap is crap. Doesn't matter if it comes from religious people or other atheists. (Even though Acharya isn't an Atheist.)
For a good understanding of just why Acharaya S. is not a credible source,may I suggest reading the criticism of "The Golden Bough by Sir James George Frazer." This is one source Acharya uses. It's an outdated soure, a wonderful book, but just one that is no longer considered credible. The author made wide-spreading overgeneralizations, something that is no longer considered acceptable to academia. Otherwise it's a good book.
Some of the information is indeed reliable, and some of the insight Frazer provides is sublimating... however, I do realise that much of his outlook is outdated.
Still, a must read for any student of anthropology.
It's a good read, and they mention Acharya. The creators of the website have not read her work, but they are familiar withe the controversy surrounding her. They just caution people with what subjects to stay away from.
They do not recommend Acharya's works, probably because she doesn't identify as an Atheist, meaning she is probably a theist in some form or another.
However, they do give good recommendations for other books.
LOL, you glossed over this comment from the "Rational Atheist" website:
"The owners of RationalAtheist have not read the book"
See, at least they have the integrity to admit that they haven't read her work. I have to wonder if they are just basing their opinion about Acharya's work on what they've heard from others on the net who also don't know what they're talking about.
Boy "I previously stated that the owners admitted to not reading Acharya's books"
LOL, yet you still had no problem holding them up as some sort of authority while clearly they're not. You were just desperately looking for any dirt you could muster because that's all you've got - TRASH. It's all you've ever used in your attempt to counter Acharya's works (which you've never read).
If you weren't so ignorant maybe you would have understood that I was just recommending the site. The site itself says nothing negative about Acharya, it simply doesn't list her boks as a recommended read.
If YOU weren't so "ignorant" & desperate for trash you would never needed to post such crap in the 1st place. At least make some attempt to read the views of atheists who've ACTUALLY READ Acharya's works - LOSER!
For example, here is a review of her book "Who Was Jesus?" (includes a foreword by Dr. Robert Price) by atheist David Mills author of Atheist Universe - stellarhousepublishing. com /david-mills-wwj. html
Actually, I read an Atheist review that recommended that if one is interested in this stuff to NOT read Acharya who simply rehashes other people's ideas but read the sources she uses, though some of them are outdated or discredited.
It was some time back. The author of the review simply recommended people to read thje person who she was sourcing. Is it Dundham? I'm not sure, but the recommendation was to skip Acharya and read that person's work. I read this several months ago.
Good for you - you should get a gold star. Or maybe not as you're clearly still desperately grasping for whatever trash you can find. I'll take your utter stupidity as your apology.
Here's 2 more excellent books that were accepted for a time but are no longer viewed as credible:
"The Golden Bough by Sir James George Frazer"
-and-
"The White Goddess by Robert Graves"
Both excellent books based on similar interpretations of myth/religion. However, neither is accpeted as credible by academics of today, though they were accepted in their time.
"She claims Jesus, Buddha...is a representative of the sun. Now how the hell can she present proof for such?"
Golly, you might be able to answer your own question if you actually read her work. Your question shows you don't know her work at all, so quit pretending to be expert on it.
News flash: the gods as the sun was claimed by Macrobius in the 4th century. Like I say, you don't know squat.
BOOM!!!!!!.....uhhh, wait,..you are taking it all out of context...jesus is lord...no ...really...you have to believe me......
MATZAMAN76 2 months ago
heard a debate where he called himself a Christian Atheist - absolutely ridiculous!
slipslapsloppy 7 months ago 2
@slipslapsloppy haha that was a joke. Get it? Christian Atheist??
SHIBBYiPANDA 7 months ago
@slipslapsloppy Thankyou for the lesson in irony - I listened to the entire debate and he spent some period of time explaining what he meant.
slipslapsloppy 7 months ago
Although I'm all for films - both fiction and non-fiction- scrutinizing religion, I thought this film was TERRIBLE. Some good soundbites from some of those being interviewed but overall not very well executed.
spjohnso 8 months ago 3
@spjohnso I have to agree with you. This film was a disappointment for me, except for some of the interviews. I thought the section in Zeitgeist: The Movie dealing with religion was levels better in presentation.
ComCodex 8 months ago
@spjohnso: I agree. I actually couldn't get through the whole film, so just watched the interviews.
Roaddogg666 6 months ago
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ZOGcorp 9 months ago
But Superman.. LOL!
wrnchhead76 9 months ago
Yes, vrigins, rising gods, etc. are found in many cultures. HOWEVER it is important to note that it doesn't always mean X rehashed Y story. It is evident some mythical elements were added in the gospels to the account of Jesus's preachings in order to fulfill an agenda: evangelizing and converting people. You convert people more easily with a grandiose story. Also, it is really stupid to sum up Jesus's sayings to a few miraculous adds.
keirapotter 10 months ago
Christianity, the bandwagon cult. Makes it seem awfully banal. I mean, it wasn't even avant garde.
janeyanna 10 months ago
LOVE THIS!!!
JokerzKard 10 months ago
Kenny Rogers with brains¡¡¡
abiamo1 1 year ago
the fictional event of Jesus happened 2000 years ago. Even if he performed "miracles", who cares!? There are plenty of mythical and even some texts where people were believed to have mystical powers and they aren't as celebrated as Jesus. I think Jesus Christ is a story that has been over-exaggerated. Jesus's miracles to me are not impressive simply because I couldn't care less for magic tricks.
LOLDISNEYLAND 1 year ago
@LOLDISNEYLAND Why is their so much debate over Jesus and his Legitimacy and Christianity, but no debate over THe Legitimacy of Islam?
sstaner1 1 year ago
@LOLDISNEYLAND Why is their so much debate over Jesus and his Legitimacy and Christianity, but no debate over THe Legitimacy of Islam? Beleiver23
sstaner1 1 year ago
@LOLDISNEYLAND Have you ever wondered why their is so much debate over the Legitimacy of Jesus and Christianity, but no wone seems to debate the legitimacy of Islam.
sstaner1 1 year ago
@LOLDISNEYLAND Have you ever wondered why their is so much debate over the Legitimacy of Jesus and Christianity, but no wone seems to debate the legitimacy of Islam.
sstaner1 1 year ago
@LOLDISNEYLAND Why is it that their so much debate over the Legitimacy of Jesus, but no one seems to question or argue the legitimacy of Islam.
sstaner1 1 year ago
@sstaner1 wow it took you 5 goes to get it right or something?
Islam and Christianity have the same origins. Questioning one or the other doesn't make a difference as the question strikes two birds with one stone.
LOLDISNEYLAND 1 year ago
@sstaner1 Maybe it's more of a given that the weird ramblings of an arabic criminal, murderer and pedophile can't be "supernatural" or "godly"? I don't know..but Islam is also much less of a problem than christianity in the modern world still. If it becomes more of a problem, I'm sure people will bother to debunk Islam too. : )
winterstellar 8 months ago
@winterstella
to whom and to what extent is christianity a problem. The world with all it's specific rules that make up the theories that we label "science" can not be random events, that with trial and error formed what is our reality. Every branch of science, be it Psychology, biology, sociology, chemistry, all point to a design. Who, what, is that designer. It seems that Jesus is the direct target of everyone's energy. Either love him or hate him... there is no grey area.
sstaner1 5 months ago
@sstaner1 Oh really? No doubt you have this from a scientist? No? You have it from an evangelist preacher? A retarded billy bob preacher? Evolution is fact, the randomness of natural selection is fact. Look up evolution in wiki if you want to learn the basics at least:)
winterstellar 5 months ago
@winterstellar By the way, I just saw a video at my channel. I think you should watch it, it's called "The Erosion Of Progress By Religions". That's my major concern, the dark ages has already halted progress a thousand years, and still indoctrination of children with idiotic fairy-tales instead of sccience is slowing humanity down. If we can get rid of religion/superstition completely, then a lot more brainpower can be used on progress instead of b.s fairy-tales:)
winterstellar 5 months ago
@winterstellar I have two science degrees and I am very familiar with the theory of evolution. The theory of evolution is is what it's name says it is, a theory. Evolution is not a fact. The way science works is someone presents a solution to a problem that other "scientist" test and either agree or dismiss. Theories are replaced all the time. The theory of evolution is being questioned as we speak by scientists because it has holes in it .
sstaner1 5 months ago
@sstaner1 Did you know that a young girl who is at the onset of puberty will begin their period at 100 hundred pounds, it is tied to a genteic signal that is preset to occur at precisely that weight. The earth has precisely the right amount of water for us to live. The thing is, science is nothing more than explanations of the rules around us.
sstaner1 5 months ago
@sstaner1 Live evolved according to how much water there was, had there been less, life would have evolved differently, as it would if there had been more water too..? So..? If your father had sex with your mother a few seconds later or earlier, you wouldn't have been conceived..but again, so what? It happened, and that's all we have to relate to, things that happen. Not things that could have happened. : )
winterstellar 5 months ago
@sstaner1 Crap. Evolution is fact even though there exists a *theory of evolution* explaining the diversity of life. Oh, and look up what a scientific *theory* is. (You liar:)
winterstellar 5 months ago
@winterstellar
I dont have to look it up. Sciense works by someone presenting a solution to a problem. example, gravity.
A test is conducted by a scientist. The test provides data then the data is reviewed and a theory is proposed, Test are administered by other scientist to confirm or deny the findings, If the scientific community accepts the theory then it is law. I did not have to look up this info. Thories are rewritten all the time. Remeber when the earth was flat?
sstaner1 5 months ago
@sstaner1 Yeah,the Pope and his culprits made sure anyone saying it wasn't were tortured or killed. Peple already in ancient Egypt, Greece and Rome new it was a globe, but the christians made it "flat" for more than a thousand years until they finally gave in. Today The Pope even admits The Big Bang 13.7 billion years ago, evolution AND the Earth's age of more than 4.5 billion years as facts. The sleazy bastards know they can't deny the obvious facts anylonger, so now "it's in The Bible"!Right..
winterstellar 5 months ago
@winterstellar . From the Bible: 1.Isaiah 40:22
He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in. Your are putting what a group of people who may or may not have been real christians did. You have to take in to account the times in which this all took place. Many peoples of different cultures believed in a flat earth.
The Big Bang Theory is a "Theory".
sstaner1 5 months ago
@sstaner1 Exactly, the word means a DISC, and that's something you can put a canopy on. That was the common belief among common tards in the region, also the ones who authored/stole stories to create "The Bible". They had a word fpr *ball* to, not just round disc. (Don't even try to argue, I have actually studied semittic languages at university no less! : ) (And that's not even a lie, I actually have)
winterstellar 5 months ago
@winterstellar I am currently attending a University. But I can see that you believe that you are better than me, and smarter, and that I am a liar. I guess that people can not have a debate without attacking each. Agree to disagee. I wonder why people think that an average christian family hurts the community in which they live. I know of many churches that help in many ways.
sstaner1 5 months ago
@sstaner1 Good for you. I attended university for years too. (Don't drop out,I did)But the other thing: Religion/superstition slows down progress, that's my main concern. Imagine all the extra brain power that could be spent on developing science, medicine and technology if everybody knew the facts and nobody wasted time on ancient superstition? In a country like America where you see or hear "God this" "God that" all the time, kids must work hard to break free of it and choose science instead!!
winterstellar 5 months ago
@winterstellar Good point .Have you read these? E.A.Wallis Budge translation of, 'The Papyrus of Ani' (1500BCE comp O.T.800-300BCE ish),Donald A. Mackenzie,' Egyptian myth and legend', James G Frazer, 'The Golden Bough', sceptical Bible scholars :Thomas Paine, Mark Twain, Joseph Wheless, Robert Ingersoll, C.Dennis Mckinsey, Victor J Stenger, Dan Barker, John W. Loftus, Bart Ehrman, Gary Greenberg, Richard Carrier, David Mills, Valerie Tarico, Ken Humphreys, archaeologist Israel Finkelstein
zytigon 5 months ago
@sstaner1 The idea that people believed in a flat earth at the time of Columbus came from a fictional story by Washington Irving, who wrote "The Legend of Sleepy Hollow." It made it's way into history books.
Jaynagurl1 2 months ago
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@LOLDISNEYLAND Why is it that their so much debate over the Legitimacy of Jesus, but no one seems to question or argue the legitimacy of Islam.
sstaner1 1 year ago
2indulgent. Hehe. Yes, it's more likely that Elvis is still alive than that "Jesus" has ever been alive at all, actually. It is virtually 100 percent certain that "Jesus" never even existed. Forget about the idiotic "miracles" and crap like that, he wasn't even there in the first place. : )
winterstellar 1 year ago
@winterstellar It hardly matters one way or another, the whole world is centred around this man who never existed. Our calendars are based on it, bank holidays throughout the year are based on it and it's there all the time. Pretty good going for a man who never existed.
Jonto72 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
So your saying that Christ was a story? to what end? Did they want to be persecuted then finally put to death? Do you even realize that every single apostle, Judas included died at the hands of the ruling authority and populace for preaching this? This is a classic argument using 'tunnel vision'. It functions logically as long as you do not look at the circumstances surrounding it. Viewing the entire scope of the argument however it is ludicrous.
ckilr01 1 year ago
@ckilr01
Please offer some evidence that "every single apostle" died at the hands of authorities for preaching Christianity.
The Branch Davidians died for what they believed. Were they right?
HuckMeHard 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
lets chop down our hater tree
our hater tree, our hater tree
lets chop down our hater tree
so them haten people wont grow
lets chop down our hater tree
our hater tree, our hater tree
lets chop down our hater tree
so them haten people wont grow
MissCedarbridge1 1 year ago
The mythical return of the dead hero or king certainly is a popular story. Elvis lives - as did, for decades after his execution - Czar Nicholas II. Why was CHristianity one of the most enduring and powerful of these types of story? Presumably the reason is cumulative; the manic perseverance and charismatic character of St. Paul; the unsatisfactory nature of the Roman pantheon and hence, the adoption of CHristianity by Rome. No doubt there are many factors.
NelRow23 1 year ago
@NelRow23...Elvis IS alive! I managed to get a photo of Elvis together with ET in a car outside Toledo Ohio earlier this year. Unfortunately the photos were stolen by those who want the truth to remain hidden. But hey, if that hadn't happened you would see these photos and believe. So don't be getting too highfalutin about your little ideas there Mr Smartypants.
2indulgent 1 year ago
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TeutonicVictory1517 1 year ago
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TeutonicVictory1517 1 year ago
The mythical return of the dead hero or king certainly is a popular story. Elvis lives - as did, for decades after his execution - Czar Nicholas II. Why was CHristianity one of the most enduring and powerful of these types of story? Presumably the reason is cumulative; the manic perseverance and charismatoc character of St. Paul; the unsatisfactory nature of the Roman pantheon and hence, the adoption of CHristianity by Rome. No doubt there are many factors.
NelRow23 1 year ago
I love this guy's voice.
HumanistAtheist 1 year ago
@HumanistAtheist He's like a cross between the Comic Book Guy and the Sea Captain.
TomMSTie 1 year ago
theres no reason to think there all comic books,,,what a great metaphore
nununickanu 1 year ago
What is the name of that novel he mentions at 1:40? I can't find it anywhere and I don't know how the name she mentions are spelled.
MisterBoswell 1 year ago
Your website made me curious into the Talmud Jmmanuel as explained by Billy Meier I think it's time for some truth now that the church doesn't have any more appealing, i think, thanks
jesusjmanuel 1 year ago
Damn this guy's interesting!
TomMSTie 1 year ago
Price is so much more reliable than Murdock. She constantly quotes out of date scholars to support her claims. I guess because she cannot invoke any contemporary scholarly support. A problem that doesn't disprove her hyperbolic theses, but rather undermines their credibility. Richard Carrier is also a good alternative to her... as is Dr. Price.
wfenio 1 year ago
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wfenio 1 year ago
Robert Price is wrong...wrong about Batman being only comical and fictional
Batman is real! I am sure Dr. Price will get a visit from Batman tonight...sleep tight and keep a watchful eye for the window!
Voodoofreak35 1 year ago
@Voodoofreak35 SHUT THE FUCK UP.
ExposingTheGOP 1 year ago
I know this guy. He lives with his mom down the street from my grandma.
helpmetony 1 year ago
Sexyarii, his arguments have not been debunked, how can you even claim such a thing? No one is saying he is 100% correct but his premise is 100% true, the dying and rising gods theme has been recycled through various cultures and eras, including times way before the compilation of the bible, this much can be proven with hard evidence. If you don't want to believe this then don't, but you look really stupid saying he has been debunked, that's simply not true at all.
ismarin 2 years ago 33
It is somewhat of fashioned to talk dying and rising gods. Classicists would frame the discussion somewhat differently. But no one except a limited number of theologians believes the Gospels were written in any environment other than a Hellensitic one (e.g. a purely Judaic one that knew nothing o the Greek world).
HConstantine 1 year ago
@HConstantine Yeah, this is what I've heard as well. It would be unthinkable for first century Jews to be influenced by pagan mythology. As an aside, I want to say that, as a layman, it's really difficult following these conflicting scholarly conclusions. I don't know who to trust. So many scholars are critical and dismiss outright the Jesus Seminar (of which Price is a contributor), even the skeptical scholars! Can ANYONE recommend to me something that isn't full of atheist/fundamental BS?
botwindfish 1 year ago
@botwindfish
Look Helmut Koester's books, and then the Early Christian Gospels largely written by his students.
HConstantine 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
There is a reason why neither biblical scholars or scholars of Greaco-Roman and Egyptian religion and mythology agree with Price. He is a lone voice, repeating arguments from the 1800s which have been thoroughly debunked.
sexyarii 2 years ago
Does it really matter which parallels are drawn from which books? Ultimatley they were all written by paranoid and superstitious primates that had no insight into the real way the universe works.
Raptor302 2 years ago
I've read the first one and I'm willing to bet the second one is redundant.
You've really never seriously researched something, have you? Do you even know how? Oh well, it doesn't matter. You're obviously not interested in growing intellectually or expanding your mind. Reading books that only support your position and calling it research is akin to masturbating and calling it intercourse. It looks like a have a ways to go before Annie Sullivan after all.
Sh0nin 2 years ago
I took a look at that guy, and it sounds like were both telling an idiot to pick up a fucking book. What were you trying to show me? That I should double-check my sources? I`m talking about the fucking source, you idiot! Lol You really are hapless, aren't you?
Sh0nin 2 years ago
Tell you what, if you can tell me at least 3 books that you`ve read on the subject, I'll give you citation. But, if my guess is correct you're a self-involved idiot with an insecure need to be right, who's never done anything more than read wiki entries and watch youtube videos and called it research. After all, why should I waste my time on an ignorant slob who refuses to make an effort?
Sh0nin 2 years ago
Oh my god, you mean the most recent person of millions of strangers who've edited wikipedia don't agree with me?! Moron, you`re only owning yourself with statements like that.
Sh0nin 2 years ago
You say you've studied these Gods, yet you've never even picked up the Book of the Dead? And you refuse to even spend a few hours looking into something? Like I did? I bet you've never read a single book concerning Horus or his etymology, you're so full of shit. I've done my research, and now you want me to do yours too, you dumb brat. Don't even bother sharing your opinion next time if it isn't even worth a couple hours.
Sh0nin 2 years ago
Other thing, as the eminent idiot talking in here said, all the popular novels having parallels with Christ's figure were written at the end of the II century. While the Gospels were written in the first century (two of them before the 67).. Chistians became a known religion in Rome, mainly because they were spreading the gospel and they were persecuted very often... The question arises, who copied whom? ;)
lovehope88 2 years ago
You've missed the point. He's saying that there's a common literary theme that the Bible took part in at the time along with various novels that we know are fictitious. It's not a matter of who copied who, because it's likely that both had a previous source; it's a matter of a portion of the Bible being written that way because it was the latest fad in the 1st century.
Sh0nin 2 years ago 23
no dude, his point is that many concepts in the NT are present in greek-roman literature and mitical culture in the I century.He's an immense ignorant , this is not true. He cites works that were written 100 years after the gospels to prove the point (the latest fad of the I century ah?)They follow an established literary tradition: the historical one (John also philosophical), i.e. they collect testimony of people who were present. Anybody who know a little bit of classical literature knows it.
lovehope88 2 years ago
They = the gospels
lovehope88 2 years ago
@Sh0nin As it is with the pagan-parallell claims as it probably is with this: A hoax, bogus statements to stop Christians believe. You're might one of the guys promoting Achaya claims, Murdock allegements, etc.? You should really examine closer what is really the truth behind the claims, because there no more true than you're a sheep...
Stinukli 1 year ago
@Sh0nin As it is with the pagan-parallell claims as it probably is with this: A hoax, bogus statements to stop Christians believe. You're might one of the guys promoting Achaya claims, Murdock allegements, etc.? You should really examine closer what is really the truth behind the claims, because they're no more true than you're a sheep...
Stinukli 1 year ago
@Stinukli
Now if only you could apply that same skepticism of historical sources to the Bible itself we'd be golden. However, sadly I doubt that's the case, regarding your anti-Christian conspiracy theory rhetoric. The fact that you don't place any reserved amount of doubt in the Bible should worry you, especially when you're going to accuse others of being disingenuous.
Sh0nin 1 year ago
@Sh0nin Supporting critical thinking, do not justify making nonsense and thereafter spread it around the world - because that's exactly what the copycat-promoters have done. There is no way to verify the claims, because they're not even mentioned by the historical religious texts regarding the noted entities, much less are they supported by anything else than spurious speculation and mis-interpretation of materials. It's important to contemplate one self, but that's not where the problem lies.
Stinukli 1 year ago
@Stinukli Nice side-step, but if you're going to take the time to reply to me I'd appreciate it if you actually address my accusations and what I said. You also offend by ignoring the point made in the video, which isn't about proof, but likelihood. Google 'Raglan hero scale' and you will find a list of 21 characteristics personifying mystical figures- on this list Jesus scores a 19. Your lack of concern for your Messiah's stereotypical superhero nature belies a great stupidity and dishonesty.
Sh0nin 1 year ago
@Sh0nin You have just generated a straw-man argument, and clarification is totally out of sync!
Stinukli 1 year ago
@Sh0nin Hahaha... You really believe I have'nt even take my time to check the copycat claims? Seriously?
And precisely WHERE did I make a side-step? Rather it's you making an amazingly jump to what is "a list" of the same useless, undocumented claims... Please say you're kidding!
Stinukli 1 year ago
@Stinukli How can I make a straw-man if I made no claims about what you said? Also, why do idiots think it's a valid response to laugh? It serves no purpose other than to attempt to elevate one's position without use of logic and only makes me look down on you. You still refuse to address my accusation about your disingenuous reluctance to give the Bible the same treatment you give to historical scholars.
Sh0nin 1 year ago
@Sh0nin You stated that I made a side-step: That's a straw-ma simply because it was not.
Stinukli 1 year ago
@Stinukli Creating a strawman isn't the same as saying something you disagree with, you idiot and I resent the accusation. It's misrepresenting an argument so it's easier to argue against, so try and learn words before you insult people with them.
"Parallel: Having comparable parts, analogous aspects, or readily recognized similarities"
Are you really this confused? It doesn't need footnotes because it's merely making a list of similarities between characters.
Sh0nin 1 year ago
@Sh0nin Render a false version of the opponent's arguments, blew them away, and pretend that the opponent's position in the discussion has been reduced, and you have build a straw-man argument. That's exactly what you did by going on from your statement that I made a "nice side-step". You also practise your terrible circular reasoning by only grasping the claims - not the truth behind them themselves.
Do you really expect me to take your last words seriously?
Stinukli 1 year ago
@Stinukli As for Raglan, you complained about a lack of historical footnotes for religious parallels, so I gave you some well known and understood fictional parallels instead ( such as Oedipus, Hercules and King Arthur).
Sh0nin 1 year ago
@Sh0nin It really doesn't matter what you call them. Either it's 100% false, or it's partly correct, but is not worthy be called a parallell; a universal believe is really not copycatting. You do not find any evidence of copycatting in the direction pagan-->Christianity, by that simple reason that it's either fake or it is corrupt versions that was designed late A.D, and therefore the other direction.
Stinukli 1 year ago
@Sh0nin You have also not linked to any peer-reviewed, trusthworthy, footnoting documents - you told me to Google "Raglan hero scale". Keep the crap for yourself. I've not found 1 document by that search, that footnotes any of the absurd claims. Only because someone alleges something, does not mean it's true.
Stinukli 1 year ago
@Stinukli It's also painfully obvious that Zeus,Oedipus and Hercules predate Jesus, so don't try to lie so halfheartedly for your Christ. I'm going to repeat myself in case you're still having trouble keeping up with what I'm telling you- this is purely a literary exercise, not a historical one. We are discussing character archetypes, which are important for the reason I stated in my first post five months ago.
Sh0nin 1 year ago
@Sh0nin You've still not documented 1 strikingly similarity between Jesus, Zeus, Oedipus, and Hercules, you're just going on vomit claims that there is entities predating Jesus that is the inspiriation source for the theology of Jesus. Of course do I understand that it's the same old, debunked copycat claims you're pushing... Perhaps that's the reason you haven't mentioned the claims?
Stinukli 1 year ago
@Stinukli You sir, are a moron and are testing my patience. I originally said to be fair you should have the same skepticism for the Bible, to which you responded the people against your position are liars who misrepresent sources, which does nothing to address what I said to you. Nevertheless I STILL answered that claim by giving you a list of fictional pre-Biblical charcaters that parallel Jesus (Raglan), which you are still childishly refusing to look at, like some maladjusted autistic idiot.
Sh0nin 1 year ago
@Sh0nin You keep on repeating your own fallacious claims. You really do nothing more, except from your boring suppression technique. Your end less whining, is really nothing worth...
And I HAVE checked the lousy Raglan claims by Somerset. As I told: Keep the crap for yourself. For a variation, can't you try to cough up documentation to the rubbish?
Stinukli 1 year ago
@Stinukli "Keep that crap to yourself." This sums up your entire world-view when it comes to anything other than Christianity, doesn't it? Clearly these are the words of an honest intellectual interested in the truth. "Keep that crap to yourself." Are really such a brat that you can't humor an opponent simply to let the discussion move forward? No, instead you'd prefer to set your hooves in the muck of your own self-righteousness and obnoxiously hee-haw at every suggestion. Fallacies, really?
Sh0nin 1 year ago
@Sh0nin Your deleted message, represented such irrelevance I have no or few words... You do not trick me with such things... It was just claims, and claims don't need to be true. The points, for instance, are fictious. Stop kidding with yourself...
Stinukli 1 year ago
@Sh0nin Actually, it was not a commantary, it was a personal message. Whatever...
Stinukli 1 year ago
@Stinukli Arbitrarily accusing someone of fallacies is pathetic and reeks of the Dunning-Kruger effect. But let's have some fun with this- can you actually explain why what I said was fallacious, instead of just blindly hurling words like circular reasoning and strawman as if it does anything to prove your point?
What. The. Fuck. Do. You. Mean? Documentation? Documentation of what? Of every single fiction mentioned on that list? Documentation of Jesus of Nazareth's scoring?
Sh0nin 1 year ago
@Sh0nin It's clearly that you try to hide something, here... I'm sure you know exactly what I meant. Document that the alleged attributions regarding the entities compared with Jesus, that really resemblance Jesus, is correct and not fictous. By looking at what you have written, I know know for sure that you ain't able to do that, and I know why: It's because they ARE fictous. You should at least admit the horrible nonsense, and don't confess it.
Stinukli 1 year ago
@Stinukli You're going to have to work on your speaking skills a little. Are you actually saying that I should give you real people that resemble Jesus to prove that he's a fiction? Or are you saying that the characteristics on this list don't apply to Jesus at all?
Sh0nin 1 year ago
@Sh0nin How hard can it be? What I´ve tried to knock into your skull for so long, is that the characteristics, such as resurrection, virgin birth, temple visit at an age of twelve, etc., do not apply to others than Jesus - so is the case with almost all the other issues on the lists. It´s really lies. Sometimes, there are partly truths, though irrelevant. If you don´t see what I mean, you´re not very smart. What YOU do is only embarrassing yourself by stating that my speaking skills is horrible.
Stinukli 1 year ago
@Stinukli Sorry, asshole, but I haven't mentioned any of those traits even once. Apparently your prejudice about my claims is so great that you haven't even bothered listening, you've already decided that whatever I could possibly say is either untrue or irrelevant.
Sh0nin 1 year ago
@Sh0nin This is just bogus... You've pushed those traits all the way, here. Are you talking out of our arse, or something?
Stinukli 1 year ago
@Stinukli Show me when I said that to you.
Sh0nin 1 year ago
Comment removed
Stinukli 1 year ago
@Sh0nin It's even incorporated in the Raglan-claims. Price himself stated that Herakles og Hercules is a similarity to Jesus. I don't need to show you - Price's and Raglans' claims is what you have argumented for all the way, here, almost in every single post... By asking me to do something like that, only ridicules your own position in this discussion...
Stinukli 1 year ago
@Stinukli
Feel free to answer my PM through the comments section.
Sh0nin 1 year ago
@Sh0nin I am so very sorry.
Stinukli 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Sh0nin It's even incorporated in the Raglan-claims. Price himself stated that Herakles and Hercules is a similarity to Jesus. I don't need to show you - Price's and Raglans' claims is what you have argumented for all the way, here, almost in every single post... By asking me to do something like that, only ridicules your own position in this discussion...
Stinukli 1 year ago
@lovehope88 I just want to say that I'm impressed that critical and independent thinkers like you are out there setting the facts straight. Thank you! Can you recommend to me any literature on this subject?
botwindfish 1 year ago
@botwindfish I will make a research and give you some reference next week. i'm still under exams right now.
lovehope88 1 year ago
@lovehope88 Please do! I'm glad that you took the time to respond to me. In particular, I'm looking for literature which addresses all the typical skeptical interjections. You know, the non-existence of Jesus of Nazareth, the pagan influences on the Gospel stories, etc. It has been my experience that these are all hopelessly bunk, but I haven't read a good treatment of them.
botwindfish 1 year ago
The two main sources regarding Horus are Massey and Murdock. assey bases his interpretato of only on one graphit near Luxor, which is contrasted by expert egyptologians. This is his only evidence.Murdock cited only secundary sources, and is widely criticized by scholars for having misinterpreted these sources. Why don't you study real scholarly works, studied by archeologians or historians?U are the stupid here, not sushi:having no faith should not mean being ignorant or support false theories.
lovehope88 2 years ago
@lovehope88 anyways i had already posted this comment. i hope it was not deleted on purpose, cos this could piss me off.
lovehope88 2 years ago
I'm sorry, could you please repeat your last two posts and try to be coherent this time? The only point that you made clear was your defensive insult at the end.
Sh0nin 2 years ago
No, this is why I'm not your bitch, and you're a lazy idiot. You're the one going around on the internet claiming these passages don't exist while you were obviously to lazy to even TRY and find them. This is why you're a dumbass, it's you try NOT to learn, you illiterate asshole.
Sh0nin 2 years ago
You already know the alleged parallels, I've told you where to find them, now you want me to go in my closet, dig around until I find my copy of the Book of the Dead, flip through the whole thing scanning it for passages to your liking and then type them out one by one on youtube for you?
I could, but FUCK OFF. I'm not your goddamn secretary, go to a library. Don't be so fucking lazy.
Sh0nin 2 years ago
*sigh* Fine, let's see if I can't pull an Annie Sullivan and actually teach you something.
Person 1 makes claim X
There is something objectionable about Person 1
Therefore claim X is false
as opposed to
Person 1 makes claim X
There is something objectionable about Person 1
Claim X is false because of Fact A, regardless of Person 1
I've read many religious books such as both Bibles, the Koran, the Dhammapada, and Dao-de-jing, etc., the Book of the Dead being one of them. Nice try, though.
Sh0nin 2 years ago
Just insulting someone doesn't constitute an ad hominem you idiot, it has to be an attempt to distract from a genuine argument. Ironically though, you saying it was an ad hominem is an ad hominem in itself. Dumb hypocrite.
You said there was no legitimate evidence for the Horus-Jesus comparison, so I gave you it. Don't try to distract from the point with some esoteric and inconsequential debate that you've masturbated to time and time again.
Sh0nin 2 years ago
Again, it would be a little more convincing if you weren't pulling these numbers out of your ass, moron....
You already know the parallels, I'm telling you their source. Stop being purposefully difficult, it's sad.
Sh0nin 2 years ago
Not as weird when you take into account that that statistic is bullshit and that the majority of American historians are Christian, despite the evidence (just like you).
If only you were as skeptical when thinking about the Bible. Don't be so childish. If you really want to, feel free to read a copy of The Book of the Dead, which is the source of this parallel instead of vapidly displaying your insecurities on youtube videos.
Sh0nin 2 years ago
oh my god, can't believe how utterly ignorant this guy is.
pennylane4479 2 years ago
Observe if you may let's take for example:
The Hindu god Krishna!
He is considered by most of the Hindu world as their hero.
His mother already had children(over 10 to be exact) she was no virgin. Mary, Jesus mother was a 15 year old virgin who was engaged to Joseph.
The date of Krishna's birth is unknown and Jesus wasn't born on Dec 25.
Krishna was born in a prison not in an inn or barn like Jesus was.
There are absolutely no similarities between Krishna and Jesus Christ.
POC777 2 years ago
You're making a futile argument. Mixing and matching and plagiarism of other religions has been typical even long before the conception of Yahweh (The Father, circa 1000BC). In fact its even easy to cite plagiarisms of Yahweh from the Caananite God Enki, and even draw obvious similarities between Moses and the deified Hammurabi. All myths follow a very neat pattern and your Jesus aligns with this perfectly. I dont why this subject makes you so desperate.
Sh0nin 2 years ago
Except their titles, trinity, etc.
Jaynagurl1 2 years ago
"There are absolutely no similarities between Krishna and Jesus Christ. "
They were both supposedly persecuted in their childhood. Price doesn't try and say that there are any other similarities than that. watch the video again.
Jesus is simply a patchwork of previous myths and gods. He doesn't line up with every single feature of every single myth ever but he doesn't have to be for the jesus story to be a rip-off.
TheLeetPiper 2 years ago
@POC777
A comparison of Krishna and Jesus ...ridiculous!
Now, a comparison of HORUS and Jesus...ah, THAT is enlightening.
vivalaleta 2 years ago
Horus---you mean the Sun?
POC777 2 years ago
Horus, the Egyptian sky god.
Go watch Parallels Between Jesus and Horus - Egyptian Sun God
Here on YouTube.
It's very enlightening.
vivalaleta 2 years ago
Umm....which Horus exactly are you speaking about? Because if you don't know there were many "horuses" in Egyptian Mythology. Since Egyptians will create new gods it makes sense we don't know which one is the REAL Horus.
POC777 2 years ago
Oh, now I see, you are just being purposely obtuse. You're afraid of how flimsy a foundation your precious religion is REALLY built on. Well, you have due cause to be. I don't blame you.
vivalaleta 2 years ago
If you let people think for you and conform you to their ideas and opinions, I have nothing else to say to you. But if you REALLY study and THINK for yourself about Egyptian Mythology and do a little research on the video you will know the truth.
This video has been debunked time and time again. It's getting very boring!
POC777 2 years ago
Horus, the Egyptian sky god.
Go watch Parallels Between Jesus and Horus - Egyptian Sun God
Here on YouTube.
vivalaleta 2 years ago
None of the so-called gods resemble Jesus Christ!
POC777 2 years ago
Hilarious. I wonder why no one else agrees with Price..hmm....
sexyarii 2 years ago
Exactly, my point, who would?
POC777 2 years ago
Yes, you've demonstrated your Inquisition like hatred towards Acharya S here & elsewhere repeatedly, attempting to smear her however you can.
It looks like you're not used to being called out for your intellectually dishonest diatribe. You've demonstrated here with your own posts how ignorant you are on her work - it may be wise to actually read an authors work BEFORE ranting on & on against it out of pure ignorance. Simple common sense will take you far.
Hercules2345 2 years ago
I asked Acharya S to show me proof and the "secret" manuscript written in Greek of her discovery Jesus Christ resembling pagan gods.
I waited for quite a while without NO response!
She NEVER revealed one shred of evidence of Jesus or so-called gods from pagan religions such as Persian, Greek or Roman.
This all concludes it was only a lie, a lie to attack Christianity which has been for centuries.
Everyone who reads or listens to Mr.Price receives the same message--that's about it.
POC777 2 years ago
You probably got no response because serious scholars don't care what youtube nobodies think.
TheLeetPiper 2 years ago
The same I say about those anti-Christian scholars and layman--we don't care and doesn't matter what THEY think.
In the end everyone knows who wins: 1. Jesus returns back to earth with the redeemed at the end of Armageddon to stop man from destroying it and themselves.
2. Jesus destroys those who oppose Him with the Word of God.
3. He establishes his Kingdom on earth where he will reign and rule with the redeemed on earth.
POC777 2 years ago
Sure why not. Just don't expect scholars to return your youtube comments.
TheLeetPiper 2 years ago
and you ain't even close to my caliber, little boy. I just don't like liars who smear other people with bullshit. Mentally ill sociopaths like you are a dime a dozen.
givemeabreaknow1 2 years ago
givemeabreaknow1: So now I'm a sociopath? LOL
Keep'em coming. This is hilarious.
BoyintheMachine 2 years ago
"Either join in the debate and express intelligence or bug off."
You've been caught with your pants down, you lying sack of crap. Admit your dishonesty or you bug off. You don't know Acharya's work, but you've been in hear badmouthing her - making personal attacks - and all the rest of your lowlife bullshit. You have NO credibility, so keep your trap shut.
givemeabreaknow1 2 years ago
You're the one who's daft. Your comprehension of mythology is garbage. Where did you study? What are your creds? What languages do you know?
givemeabreaknow1 2 years ago
Oh, and you're not "merely skeptical." You've been in here repeating LIES about someone and her work you haven't even read.
That's just plain DISHONEST, not skeptical.
givemeabreaknow1 2 years ago
Yeah, see - you couldn't even read what David Mills had to say before you had to come back here with more of your ignorance and stupidity.
givemeabreaknow1 2 years ago
"Crap is crap.... It's always refreshing when someone resorts to put-downs when they can't counter with anything intelligent."
Exactly like you're doing with Acharya's work. You don't have any idea about it - you're completely ignorant, but you keep resorting to moronic put-downs since you can't counter with anything intelligent.
You're just completely full of shit. You admit you don't know anything about her work, and then you keep lying about it. THAT'S CRAP, loser.
givemeabreaknow1 2 years ago
bivemeabreaknow1: You aren't even at the same level as the other guys I've been debating with here. You just came out of the woodwork slinging insults half-hazzardly at me like a drunk redneck.
Either join in the debate and express intelligence or bug off.
BoyintheMachine 2 years ago
"It doesn't mean that Dionysus equals Osiris, just that they are similar."
Yeah, we already know you have next to NO understanding of mythology, BOY. Go back to school. You are clueless. And you've got a chip on yoru shoulder a mile wide - it's SOOO obvious.
givemeabreaknow1 2 years ago
"Chip on your shoulder..."
Again, I've made no claims, merely am skeptical of the claims you guys obviously accept at face value.
BoyintheMachine 2 years ago
Ever heard of atheist David Mills, BOY jackass? He loves Acharya's work - because he's actually read it, unlike bigoted, lying a-holes like you.
Here's his review of her book "Who Was Jesus?"
stellarhousepublishing . com / david-mills-wwj . html
I know YOU'RE too lazy, bigoted and a-holish to actually read this review, but somebody else might be interested in the TRUTH, rather than your stupid lies.
What is your real problem? Jealous? Or a misogynist, like David Mills says?
givemeabreaknow1 2 years ago
So now I'm a mosogynist?
Wow! LOL
Again, It's always refreshing when people can't think of anything intelligent to say and resort to put-downs and silly accusations.
BoyintheMachine 2 years ago
So, what you're saying BOY, is that you're too lazy and dishonest to actually read the books yourself - or even the articles she's got all over the place.
You've already been shown to be a lying sack of crap, so why don't you can it.
givemeabreaknow1 2 years ago
No, I'm saying as a Freethinker and Rational Atheist, I don't automatically accept stuff just because it seems to support, at least on a surface level, my atheistic beliefs.
Crap is crap. Doesn't matter if it comes from religious people or other atheists. (Even though Acharya isn't an Atheist.)
BoyintheMachine 2 years ago
For a good understanding of just why Acharaya S. is not a credible source,may I suggest reading the criticism of "The Golden Bough by Sir James George Frazer." This is one source Acharya uses. It's an outdated soure, a wonderful book, but just one that is no longer considered credible. The author made wide-spreading overgeneralizations, something that is no longer considered acceptable to academia. Otherwise it's a good book.
BoyintheMachine 2 years ago
I've read the Golden Bough a couple of times.
Some of the information is indeed reliable, and some of the insight Frazer provides is sublimating... however, I do realise that much of his outlook is outdated.
Still, a must read for any student of anthropology.
dudekin 2 years ago
I just found a website called, "Rational Atheist"
It's a good read, and they mention Acharya. The creators of the website have not read her work, but they are familiar withe the controversy surrounding her. They just caution people with what subjects to stay away from.
They do not recommend Acharya's works, probably because she doesn't identify as an Atheist, meaning she is probably a theist in some form or another.
However, they do give good recommendations for other books.
BoyintheMachine 2 years ago
'website called, "Rational Atheist"'
'The creators of the website have not read her work'
'they do not recommend Acharya's works,'
How rational that sounds. Maybe they should study the topic before passing a bigoted judgment.
dudekin 2 years ago
It's not a bigoted judgement at all. They simply do not list her books as recommended reading.
BoyintheMachine 2 years ago
LOL, you glossed over this comment from the "Rational Atheist" website:
"The owners of RationalAtheist have not read the book"
See, at least they have the integrity to admit that they haven't read her work. I have to wonder if they are just basing their opinion about Acharya's work on what they've heard from others on the net who also don't know what they're talking about.
Here are atheists who agree with Acharya:
forums. truthbeknown. com /viewtopic. php?t=2483
LMAO! LOSER!!!
Hercules2345 2 years ago
Hercules2345: You can't read, and this is the 2nd time you proved so.
I previously stated that the owners admitted to not reading Acharya's books.
BoyintheMachine 2 years ago
Boy "I previously stated that the owners admitted to not reading Acharya's books"
LOL, yet you still had no problem holding them up as some sort of authority while clearly they're not. You were just desperately looking for any dirt you could muster because that's all you've got - TRASH. It's all you've ever used in your attempt to counter Acharya's works (which you've never read).
Hercules2345 2 years ago
If you weren't so ignorant maybe you would have understood that I was just recommending the site. The site itself says nothing negative about Acharya, it simply doesn't list her boks as a recommended read.
BoyintheMachine 2 years ago
If YOU weren't so "ignorant" & desperate for trash you would never needed to post such crap in the 1st place. At least make some attempt to read the views of atheists who've ACTUALLY READ Acharya's works - LOSER!
For example, here is a review of her book "Who Was Jesus?" (includes a foreword by Dr. Robert Price) by atheist David Mills author of Atheist Universe - stellarhousepublishing. com /david-mills-wwj. html
Hercules2345 2 years ago
Actually, I read an Atheist review that recommended that if one is interested in this stuff to NOT read Acharya who simply rehashes other people's ideas but read the sources she uses, though some of them are outdated or discredited.
BoyintheMachine 2 years ago
Yeah, who said that? Provide a name & a link.
Hercules2345 2 years ago
It was some time back. The author of the review simply recommended people to read thje person who she was sourcing. Is it Dundham? I'm not sure, but the recommendation was to skip Acharya and read that person's work. I read this several months ago.
BoyintheMachine 2 years ago
Good for you - you should get a gold star. Or maybe not as you're clearly still desperately grasping for whatever trash you can find. I'll take your utter stupidity as your apology.
good day
Hercules2345 2 years ago
My utter stupidity? LOL...
There is absolutley no reason for me to apologize to you.
Carry on believing in the nonsense of your modern prophets.
BoyintheMachine 2 years ago
Here's 2 more excellent books that were accepted for a time but are no longer viewed as credible:
"The Golden Bough by Sir James George Frazer"
-and-
"The White Goddess by Robert Graves"
Both excellent books based on similar interpretations of myth/religion. However, neither is accpeted as credible by academics of today, though they were accepted in their time.
BoyintheMachine 2 years ago
"She claims Jesus, Buddha...is a representative of the sun. Now how the hell can she present proof for such?"
Golly, you might be able to answer your own question if you actually read her work. Your question shows you don't know her work at all, so quit pretending to be expert on it.
News flash: the gods as the sun was claimed by Macrobius in the 4th century. Like I say, you don't know squat.
givemeabreaknow1 2 years ago
We can go earlier than that, Plutarch and Diodorus Siculus made claims as such regarding Osiris, Isis, Horus etc.
dudekin 2 years ago
Horus is associated with the sun, Isis wears the solar disk, Osiris...not so much.
However, try proving Jesus, Buddha, and Krishan are representativesof the sun and you fall flat on your face.
BoyintheMachine 2 years ago