Lifting the Veil of Polygamy (Excerpt): Sandra Tanner's story

[101mythbuster]

So here we have Sandra Tanner once again misrepresenting the real position of the LDS church and discrediting Mormonism based on her own portrayal of things. Now that's what I call a true spin doctor. One has to give her credit, she really is a true master at decieving the ignorant and feeding her blind, eager to disprove Mormonism, Evangelical sheep who swallow her every word. LOL

[shieldandrefuge]

@101mythbuster : Please share in what way she is "misrepresenting" the real position of the LDS Church. If you are going to spew forth accusations, you need to back them up with facts, otherwise your accusations are just baseless attacks.

[101mythbuster]

@shieldandrefuge Well, let's see, how about her erroneous statement that the church is "embarrassed" about polygamy and "denies" it as part of its history which is totally false. Or, how bout her false claim that the church "rejects" ANY of Joseph Smith's teachings, or that polygamy, not eternal marriage, is essential for eternal life.How about the complete and utter lie tha LDS do not accept Christ's atonement as "full payment" of their sins.Her understanding of Mormonism is completely backward

[shieldandrefuge]

@101mythbuster : I would recommend that you go and research the original teachings of Mormonism--and I'm not talking about the so-called "anti-Mormon" stuff, I'm talking about the LDS-Church-published materials from yesteryear. Polygamy was clearly taught as essential to eternal life--and this comes from a myriad of LDS sources. Christ's atonement was taught as not covering certain sins. These are not teachings that are difficult to discover, although they are not discussed much nowadays.

[101mythbuster]

@shieldandrefuge I have read the Journal of Discourses thank you very much. Please don't make assumtions about my familiarity with early church documents. I'm well aware of the cut and paste statements that the critics like to use out of context to overstate the emphasis early church leaders made on plural marriage. The fact of the matter is, that even when plural marriage was in full force in Utah, only 2% of the membership actually practiced it. Quite a contradiction to Tanner's allegations.

[shieldandrefuge]

@101mythbuster . So what is the proper context of "Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned." (B. Young, J.O.D., 3:266.) Or "You might as well deny 'Mormonism,' and turn away from it, as to oppose the plurality of wives." (HC Kimball, J.O.D 5:203). The list goes on and on. What could possibly be derived from the context to refute the idea that polygamy was a core value of Mormonism? Did they say "Just kidding!" afterward?

[101mythbuster]

@shieldandrefuge The church has never denied plural marriege as a true principle which God, at cretain times in history, commands his people to live,(seeJacob 2:30 BoM) to do so would be to deny Joseph Smith's revelations. It's all right there in sec.132. It is not stated in these quotes you provided that all men are commanded to live this law, and in fact, it is contrary to the doctrine which states that a man must recieve it by commandment and revelation. You simply don't understand Mormonism.

[shieldandrefuge]

@101mythbuster. But why, then, was the whole system of monogamy despised, if polygamy was not intended for any worthy member? ("This law of monogamy, or the monogamic system, laid the foundation for prostitution and the evils and diseases of the most revolting nature and character under which modern Christendom groans…”, Pratt, JOD 13:195) Polygamy was originally taught as the only means to the highest level of exaltation.

[101mythbuster]

@shieldandrefuge In proper context, these statements are a response to opposition which the church was recieving at the time with regards to polygamy. As I mentioned before, only a few high ranking members actually practiced it, so, to say that the church in general was opposed to monogamy is a gross misreading. They merely defended their position by pointing out the evils which also exist in a monogamus society.

[101mythbuster]

@shieldandrefuge To early church leaders, celestial marriage and plural marriage were interchangable terms. Both are part of the same everlasting covenant. There is no difference between the two aside from the number of spouses. In this sense, LDS today still live the same law, in fact, presently, if a man is sealed for eternity to a woman and after becomes a widow, he is free to be sealed again to another without annuling the first. The number of wives however, is irrelevant to exaltation.

[shieldandrefuge]

@101mythbuster: I know that the church currently doesn't require polygamy. But it was originally taught that polygamy was a requirement for the highest exaltation (i.e., godhood): "The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy.” (Brigham Young, JOD 11:269) I guess the question I have is, why this sea change in doctrine? Are no Mormons today to achieve godhood? Is this something that today's Mormons do not aspire to anymore?

[101mythbuster]

@shieldandrefuge To be perfectly honest, there are a number of statements which Brigham Young made which even his own conteporaries were not in full agreement with. However, there is a difference between the REVEALED WORD OF GOD through the prophets and the words of the prophets AS MEN. The prophets are not 24/7 revelation. As Nephi put it :"even did they err of old"1 Nep19:6. Brigham understood celestial marriage to be a requisite for godhood but didn't bother to differentiate it from polygamy.

[101mythbuster]

@shieldandrefuge To further add to my prior comment, I feel that it is exactly this unrealistic and unfair expectation that ex-Mormons have of early church leaders, which is the principal reason they end up leaving the church. I myself am not affraid to admit that even Apostles make mistakes.This fact doesn't make the church any less true, on the contrary, it is the very reason that the priesthood is organized into quorums which sit in council. Even the church is progressing towards perfection.

[101mythbuster]

@shieldandrefuge "I attended the school of the prophets. Brother John Holeman made a long speech upon the subject of Poligamy. He Contended that no person Could have a Celestial glory unless He had a plurality of wives. Speeches were made By L.E. Harrington O Pratt Erastus Snow, D Evans J. F. Smith Lorenzo Young. PRESIDENT YOUNG SAID there would be men saved in the Celestial Kingdom of God WITH ONE WIFE with MANY WIVES & with NO WIFE at all."(Wilford Woodruff’s Journal, entry dated 12 Feb. 1870)

[101mythbuster]

@shieldandrefuge "Then Presidt Young spoke 58 Minuts. He said a Man may Embrace the Law of Celestial Marriage in his heart & not take the Second wife & be justified before the Lord" ( Wilford Woodruff’s Journal, entry dated 24 September 1871)

[blutowpi]

@101mythbuster Brigham Young said you are damned if you deny polygamy.

"Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned," (Journal of Discourses, vol. 3, p. 266). Also, "The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy," (Journal of Discourses, vol. 11, p. 269). Sounds like we have dueling

" prophets " . Oh what a tangled web the mormongods " prophets " weave because their practice is to deceive

[101mythbuster]

@shieldandrefuge She also neglected to mention that in almost all cases where Joseph was sealed for eternity to previously married women that they remained until death with their husbands who also consented to everything, and that no marital relations were ever consumated. Despite allegations by critics, it has not been proven that Joseph Smith had any children other than with Emma, his first wife. As also she fails to explain the evil of polygamy inspite of its precedence in the Bible.

[shieldandrefuge]

@101mythbuster : Again, there's historical research to be done here...I would challenge you to investigate to see if this is really true. Even the most well-researched and reputable sources state that Smith's wives beyond Emma were in fact connubial ones. As for polygamy's presence in the Bible--tell me where God commands it or says it's a good thing. Murder is in the Bible, adultery is in the Bible. Just because you find it there doesn't mean it's a Godly principle.

[101mythbuster]

@shieldandrefuge What? Do you think I'm making this stuff up? I challenge you to do your own unbias research and find out if these things are not true. I'm not denying the possibilty of Smith having conjugal relations with others of his plural wives, which would be inconsequential anyway, what I'm saying is that this was not the case with the women that Tanner mentions. Any evidence that even hints of any marital relations Joseph Smith otherwise may have had, is all based on secondhand hersay.

[101mythbuster]

@shieldandrefuge "tell me where God commands it" I see you want to play the PRETEND game. OK, let's pretend that the HOLY patriarchs did not really practice plural marriage, or else, let's pretend that God didn't know about it. Let's pretend that the 12 tribes of Israel were not born from the plural wives of Jaccob. Let's pretend that the wives of king Saul were not given unto David by the prophet Nathan. Let us pretend that even Christ himself was not descended from one of these many wives. Ok?

[shieldandrefuge]

@101mythbuster : Who's saying that some of the patriarchs didn't practice polygamy? Clearly they did. The question is, did they do so by God's command? Moses murdered. Abraham lied. Jacob cheated. David committed adultery and forced the poor woman's husband to be killed. (It was this woman, by the way, from whom Jesus descended.) If you can tell me where God commanded these men to murder, lie, cheat, steal, commit adultery, then you can probably tell me where he commanded polygamy.

[101mythbuster]

@shieldandrefuge I would argue that in every case in which the patrairchs did those things that it was justified,("save in the case of Uriah and his wife"D&C132:39) otherwise, how could they be favoured men of God? You will note that the only instance wherein David begs forgiveness of God was in the case of Bathsheba, who BTY is ancestor to Joseph, not mary. But since you want to turn a blind eye to the implications, I will give you a more literal example, read (2 Samuel 12:7-8)

[shieldandrefuge]

@101mythbuster : I would go back and read the accounts. Abraham's taking of Hagar was an act of faithlessness (not believing God's promise to give him an heir through Sarah). For Jacob, plural marriage was the source of enormous strife. But to say that all their actions are justified because God favors these men, that makes no sense. I'm assuming that you, like me, have not lived a perfect life; yet God still loves you and blesses you, doesn't he? God loves people, but does not justify sin.

[101mythbuster]

@shieldandrefuge Exactly what part of '"Thus saith the Lord God of Israel...I gave thee thy master's WIVES" did you not understand? Are you saying that these prophets were guilty of adultery and fornication, a sin only second to murder, and still remained righteous? How then do these same things disqualify Joseph Smith as a prophet? Why did the Lord himself command Hagar to return to a polygamus relationship after she had fled from Sarah, if he did not approve?What excuse will you think of next?

[shieldandrefuge]

@101mythbuster : Read the text more carefully. This was in reference to David, NOT "these prophets." God was rebuking him for amassing a harem. But putting that aside, where do you get your "ranking" for sins, anyway? Sin is sin. Joseph Smith's greatest error wasn't adultery; it was claiming that his adultery was a command of God. As for Hagar, God sent her back to SARAH, not to Abraham (read the text). There's no evidence that Abraham's relations with her went beyond conceiving Ishmael.

[101mythbuster]

@shieldandrefuge Yes, I know the text is referring to David, thank you very much."these prophets" was actually in referrence to your comment. Also, the text is very clear in that it was the Lord himself who gave Saul's wives unto David and was rebuking him, not for "amassing" wives, but for the death of Uriah. And so we read in verse 11 "I will take thy wives...and GIVE them unto thy neighbour" Was the Lord therefore an accomplice to sin? Or will you still continue to ignore the obvious answer?

[LDStothecore]

Tanner is a fool.  She blames everyone but herself.

[FlackerMan]

Growing up in the church, I was taught that plural marriage was a way for the pioneers to make sure that the single mothers and widows were taken care for in the harsh and isolated west.

It is interesting that the revelation on polygamy does not allow for a man to marry single mothers or widows, only virgins vowed to no other man. It prohibits the justification that I was taught my whole life.

[yexuslover1]

This makes me sick to my stomach. How Mormons can worship a man who lived such an overwhelming sinful life is beyond comprehension. God open the eyes and hearts of these lost souls.

[MsFreedom2fly]

@yexuslover1

I did believe what I was taught because I was taught it was good. They believe and follow one because they believe the same as I did and the other is the fear of being dis-fellowshipped and shunned from family and friends. As my own family did for 2 years when I left the mormon church and became a born-again Christian.

[MsFreedom2fly]

I forgave them and they have asked for my forgiveness in their doings. It was only God who has brought my family back together. Praying that they might know Him as I do. God saved me He can save anyone.

[IExposeMormonism]

Mormon polygamy states it "Nullifies all non Mormon marriages and contracts", defines innocent blood, threatens his wife with murder and much more. It is set up as much for Mormons to control Mormons as it is to control and give access to control and possession of non Mormon marriages, life, etc. THus the Mormon polygamy revelation is not just for Mormons. It is directed against all non Mormons

[topbon2ndvalve]

Bravo Sandra, God be praised for the Grace and Mercy he's shown in your life, keep up the good work exposing the duplicity and political expediency of the LDS and their defenders (like my new best friend LDSLIFE)... :-)

[topbon2ndvalve]

LDS, I continue to challenge you to give me a reason behind your cult’s teaching on the temporal history of Almighty God but you continue to refuse to answer, could it be you have no answer? Why do the LDS teach that God began as a man and had to work his way up to being God, when the Bible clearly states that God has been God from Eternity (Ps 90)?

[THELDSLIFE]

Embarrassed by it? Really?

[topbon2ndvalve]

@THELDSLIFE

Are you not embarrased by Joseph Smith's serial adultery then LDSLIFE? Even though you hold him as a prophet and he deliberatley violated God's law? Isn't that something you'd like to keep quiet? Surely that would harm your cause and not help it...

1 Timothy 3:2 "Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but ONE wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach etc..."

Oh dear! Ooops! Joseph had 30+ wives some as young as 14!!!

[THELDSLIFE]

@topbon2ndvalve - We are not embarrassed by plural marriage. We are fully aware of the law being practiced and the records are well documented on who was married to who and the purpose of those unions. It is all well documented. We are equally aware of the manifesto that was issued for the church to discontinue to the practice as a church policy. The difference is we are not concerned with your assessment of it or your lack of faith and understanding of those doctrines.

[topbon2ndvalve]

@THELDSLIFE

Thank you for being honest for the first time ever LDS, at least you are not ashamed of your cult’s teaching, though you should be. The Bible is clear on adultery but Joseph felt that restricted his libido just a bit too much so exercised his carnal whims as he felt fit. You say it’s no longer a part of LDS Doctrine as if that’s supposed to prove that the LDS is somehow infallible, doesn’t it prove just the opposite, that the LDS is just a cult and Scripture cannot be broken?

[THELDSLIFE]

@topbon2ndvalve - The best cult in the world.

[topbon2ndvalve]

@THELDSLIFE

More honesty LDS, thank you. Perhaps you'll stop calling yourself Christian now and stop blaspheming the name of the Lord (hope springs eternal).

[THELDSLIFE]

@topbon2ndvalve - You're the boss. You know it all.

[TheLogos1]

I personally think that someone who is a polygamist can go into heaven. The twist with Joseph Smith and Brigham Young is that it was required for exaltation. You can prove from the Bible that men of God were polygamist, but no where does God command them to become polygamist. Only Mormonism.

[LDStothecore]

this person is crazy.

[ElderJoseph]

Sandra Tanner's website was a huge influence in my learning the real truth about Mormonism.

What I was being taught in the two years of attending the Mormon church was deceptive, misleading and blatant outright misinformation and even lying.

Mormons are not capable of being honest about their own church and its history ( if they even know that is). Most do not have a clue and have been simply befriended into the cult.

[rubym357]

Polygamy (and polyandry) has been present in almost ALL religions. Blood atonement/honor killing variations as well. Mormonism has been debunked many times from those on the inside and out. I've read No Man Knows My History, you can't get more exposed than that. FLDS and LDS survivors I wish you peace and luck in your lives.

[IExposeMormonism]

Just so there is no confusion:: Christianity is not Jewish. Christianity isn't in the world to become Jewish, perform Jewish rituals or live a Jewish life. Believe it or not. Christianity doesn't need Jewish Law or belief systems. Some Mormons Never know this

[IExposeMormonism]

I have census for utah in the 19th C. and it was 53%M and 47%F, not unlike the rest of the word.

[imtherealthing]

@IExposeMormonism

RE: polygamy not commanded?

WRONG..read Exodus 21:10 and Deut 21: 15-17 where the LORD "commands" his prophet Moses to make a law for men who take on extra wives...you know NOT your Bible.

We also see David did not sin until "AFTER" devising a way to take Uriah's wife - Bathsheba 2 Sam 12:7-13 - so David's multiple wives were fine by the Lord till he sinned this great sin. Verse 8 says that the Lord "GAVE" David his "WIVES" PLURAL - READ IT!

[IExposeMormonism]

You must be using a Joe Smith Bible, my Ex21:10 talks about a slave girl being freed. Something a Mormon would never do! You still seem to believe the purpose of Christianity is to re establish Judaism. And to live in Jewish law. You are very wrong. It is the cause of your occlusion to the truth. Christianity is freedom from Jewish Law. Josephus wasn't real impressed with the Jews at the end. "They earned their destruction".Why are you so anxious for Ritual animal sacrifice in a temple?

[imtherealthing]

@IExposeMormonism

Read Exodus 21:10...you must have your OWN version of the Bible..grab a REAL Bible - in this verse it sets out the law on how to deal with an EXTRA wife..thus the LORD accepts this practice and makes provision for the care of such.

You are a simpleton..how many times do I have to point that out to you?

[imtherealthing]

@IExposeMormonism

RE: "You still seem to believe the purpose of Christianity is to re establish Judaism."

You see you seem incapable of understanding history..or you believe history unfolded a completely different way than it really did. That is why I tell you to get a FORMAL education. For your information..the Jews and Christians still practiced a form of polygamy until the first century..it was under Roman edict that it be abolished in the roman Empire

[imtherealthing]

@IExposeMormonism

Nowhere in the New Testament is there any explicit commandment that marriage should be monogamous or any explicit commandment forbidding polygamy..nowhere.

[imtherealthing]

@IExposeMormonism

The Church in Rome banned polygamy in order to conform to Greco-Roman culture that prescribed only one legal wife while tolerating concubinage and prostitution..how's that grab you..simpleton.

[imtherealthing]

@IExposeMormonism

The Roman emperor Valentinian I, in the 4th century authorized Christians to take two wives. In the eighth century Charlemagne, holding power over both church and state, in his own person practiced polygamy, having six, or according to some authorities, nine wives.

[imtherealthing]

@IExposeMormonism

AGAIN another example of "CHRISTIANS" practicing polygamy:

St. Augustine seems to have observed in it no intrinsic immorality or sinfulness, and declared that polygamy was not a crime where it was the legal institution of a country

[imtherealthing]

@IExposeMormonism

During the Protestant Reformation, Martin Luther said, I confess for my part that if a man wishes to marry two or more wives, I cannot forbid him for it does not contradict the Scripture.

He had allowed the King to marry two women..what do you think of that?..all the while saying it was ok by SCRIPTURE to do so.

[imtherealthing]

@IExposeMormonism

1000 AD - Grossman explores the ban against polygyny for Ashkenazic Jewry, attributed to R. Gershom of Mainz around the year 1000. Scholarly opinion remains divided as to the reasons for this takkanah (revision in Jewish law), since polygamy was already rare in this.

[IExposeMormonism]

@imtherealthing That has ZERO to do with Christianity. It is Jewish. I can see how Mormons would be deceived into reading it as if it were valuable to Christ. Its Jewish. thats all.

[imtherealthing]

@IExposeMormonism

ROFL!!!..I just quoted "Christians" who supported it..and how historically and biblically it is supported..your comments are UNINFORMED and IGNORANT..like I keep telling you..go get an education..a real one..not "google".

[IExposeMormonism]

@imtherealthing  They might be your idea of Christian... Do enlighten us and explain why it is so important to conform to old world religion like Judaism

[imtherealthing]

@IExposeMormonism

You are a moron..trying to debate with you is futile..you would need to be able to GRASP concepts, and argumentation..which is obviously beyond your capacity.

Glenn Beck says it best: "Arguing with idiots" is a waste of time.

[IExposeMormonism]

@imtherealthing YOU call me a Moron? Your great book, better than the bible, is from Moroni. You are his followers. That makes You MORONS, not me. Glenn Beck is a deceived victim just like you

[imtherealthing]

@IExposeMormonism

You make me laugh..you sound like a backwoods hick..all talk no intelligence.

When you actually get an education..look me up..so I can once again demonstrate how stupid you are.

[IExposeMormonism]

@imtherealthing You step in your own shit and you call me a hick? Remember, Polygamy and blood atonement are not Christian It's Jewish.

[imtherealthing]

Anyone else interested in finding out the TRUTH about "deification"?

Then read the Book called : "The Westminster Dictionary of CHRISTIAN THEOLOGY" read up on "deification" on page 147 of said book. Find out how the early church fathers and Christians believed in and taught we can become gods by grace -> "joint-heirs with Christ". This doctrine to this day is taught by the Eastern "Orthodox" Christian churches although a watered down version of the Doctrine.

[IExposeMormonism]

You are lost in the OT. The NT is the book Christian Live by. Jesus overturned the money tables and said he left the temple to the Jews: Desolate..Even Josephus recognized the degradation of the Jews at the time of the fall of Jerusalem. He said "They Earned it". But Mormons live in the OT. And you'll never be free of it. NO Christian is under any Jewish Compulsion. Probably you look towards the Temple in Jeru'. Bad choice! Christians don't use Ritual Animal Sacrifice and Blood Atonement

[imtherealthing]

@IExposeMormonism

How PATHEITC..is that the best you can do?..you don't even address the issue..you just spew more of your "old" objections. Hard to think on your own huh?..so easy to cut and paste objections - dosen't require "thinking".

This has NOTHING to do with OT theology ..if you read it..you would see that it applies to NT witers..and "think"..were the "church fathers" and "CHRISTIAN" writers speaking of the OT here?..simpleton..see..you are a simpleton.

[IExposeMormonism]

You are lost in the abyss of Joe and Briggy's hell as heaven from OT theology. there is no polygamy in NT. Jesus didn't marry 3 Mary's. It's MONO theism, not POLY theism. God is not a god. god is not a polygamist. Adam is not God. It's mercy, not Mafia psychosis for power blood atonement. There is no "Abraham Papyrus, no Kinderhook plates, no Book of Mormon and no Pearl of Great Price. Those are all lies!. I could go on. Why do you want polygamy? and must it nullify my marriage and contracts?

[imtherealthing]

@IExposeMormonism

LOL..still no "educated" response..still spewing "old-tired" objections...how truly hilarious..for someone who claims to know LDS theology so well...you have nothing original to offer.

As for your lack of education regarding the Hebrew/Isrealite/Jewish people being MONOtheistic..just further illustrates your already known IGNORANCE on anything historical. They were FIRST polytheistic then they shifted to HENOtheism and later to MONOtheism..that is "FACT" go study it out.

[imtherealthing]

@IExposeMormonism

They ONLY became MONOTheistic in the CONTEXT of thier Babylonian captivity. The ever so mis-quoted scripture of Isaiah 43:10 where it says there are no gods "FORMED" (IDOLS of gold/silver/wood made by hand) were being put "BEFORE" the idol of Jehovah. It was common practice in Babylon to make a community altar and put all the idols of the gods together on it - Jehovah was telling them not to do this - the Jews took this to mean that there is no other god but YHWH.

[IExposeMormonism]

@imtherealthing I'm Leaving you to your theology, Have fun in Bablyon.You are lost.

[imtherealthing]

@IExposeMormonism

LOl..what's the matter..can't argue your pathetic points?...lol

of course not..you are a "cut and paste" kinda guy...google is not your friend..sigh - armchair academics...lol

[imtherealthing]

@IExposeMormonism

REad :Joshua 22:22

God is the God of gods

Is God the God of TRUe gods or FALSE

gods?

When we read he is the "Mighty" God what is he mighty over?..men?..angels?..judges?.­.why does He need to assert himself in such a way..he is God.. we know he is the Mighty God of other gods.

[imtherealthing]

@IExposeMormonism

..why is it that one can sin against the FATHER and the SON but not against the HOLY GHOST as we read in the "bible"..if they are of the same essence or substance or MIND as trinitarians say ..why is it that you are not sinning against the HOLY GHOST when you sin against the Father and Son..if they are the same ESSENCE or SUBSTANCE or MIND?

[imtherealthing]

@IExposeMormonism

.why is it that false christianity needs analogies like an egg, a triangle, or water in its three phases to EXPLAIN thier 3-headed god?..can you point to just ONE place in the Bible where ANY of the prophets or apostles use these very analogies or ANY analogies for that matter to explain the GODHEAD?..well?

Guess your "god" is not found in the bible huh?

[imtherealthing]

@IExposeMormonism

We learn that ONLY the Father knows of end of the world not the angels or even JESUS knows this according to the bible...so if they share the same MIND - which "is" trinatarian theology..then how can this be?

Ever think that your Hellenized god could be just that..a god made up by wicked men to destroy people's faith in the TRUE GOD..as we learn..it is LIFE ETERNAL to know who GOD "&" Jesus Christ is..God is not supposed to be a mystery like you trinitarians teach...

[imtherealthing]

@IExposeMormonism

tell me..why does one not find the words "essence" or "substance" in the bible when you speak of the GODHEAD being ONE GOD...those words are NOT found in the bible in ANY of the original languages..it is EXTRA-BIBLICAL..that means outside of the bible.

[imtherealthing]

@IExposeMormonism

John 17:3

And this is LIFE ETERNAL, that THEY might KNOW THEE the ONLY TRUE GOD, and Jesus Christ, whom THOU HAST SENT.

[IExposeMormonism]

@imtherealthing  Joseph Smith is not a prophet. He did not correct 1800 yrs of error He is a liar.

[imtherealthing]

@IExposeMormonism

@Iexposemyselfasaliar

That is "YOUR" opinion and we do not care...lol

As was the case with your counter parts in times past the Saducees and Pharisees...who also rejected the prophets and apostles..yet that did not matter..for we know they were still who they claimed to be.

What's the matter..can't answer all the objections I posed to YOU about your false religion?

[imtherealthing]

@IExposeMormonism

Acts 7:51-53

Ye STIFFNECKED and uncircumcised IN HEART and EARS, YE DO ALWAYS RESIST the HOLY GHOST: as your fathers did, SO DO YE. Which of the PROPHETS have not your fathers PERSECUTED and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: Who have RECIEVED the law BY THE DISPOSTION OF ANGELS, and have NOT KEPT IT

[imtherealthing]

@IExposeMormonism

Acts 7:54

When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.

[IExposeMormonism]

@imtherealthing You take phrases out of the bible like they were the IChing or some tea leaf and then apply it to whatever you find emotionally satisfying. try Acts 8:14, Simon Magus, that's Joe. now, Acts 8:27, the Ethiopian Eunuch of Queen Candide:: He was baptized in some water, he was a eunuch, there was no fancy Mormon temple, no nuts, he was black. And he was LIGHT YEARS ahead of Joe Smith the liar.

[imtherealthing]

@IExposeMormonism

Now now..we all know that your false christianity is the one doing all the taking scripture out of context..thus why we have almost 33,000 so-called "christian" denominations...you are tossed to and fro with every wind of doctrine.

Eph. 4: 14

That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

[imtherealthing]

@IExposeMormonism

Now if you read the previous verses you will see the CONTEXT (I know your kind don't understand this word - it means the TRUE meaning of what is being said here - for your benifit)..where we learn that we need PROPHETS and APOSTLES etc..to come into a "UNITY of the Faith" and so that the "SAINTS" are perfected..so if YOU do not have those officers in the church (like your false religion lacks) then you fullfill verse 14 of said chapter...to the TEE.

[imtherealthing]

@IExposeMormonism

Yes the Ethiopian was baptized "AFTER" CHRIST said it was ok to preach the Gospel to the Gentiles..see Peter's vision of the blanket coming down from heaven three times with "UNCLEAN" food symbolizing those GENTILES who were once "UNCLEAN" were now "CLEAN" and able to recieve the Gospel..no conflict with LDS theology..so your point?...lol

[imtherealthing]

@IExposeMormonism

Acts 8:14 was written AFTER the revelation to Peter...not during Christ's time...you are such a simpleton..quick..run and get more "old" anti-mormon objections..."snip snip".."Hark" ...is that the sound of cutting of yet more anti-mormon objections "Iexposemyselfasaliar" is doing?...lol

[IExposeMormonism]

@imtherealthing You Pin Head, I said SIMON MAGI is Joe. . Such a deflecting quake. And don't forget, Ethiopian Eunuchs. Not big in Mormonism!

[imtherealthing]

@IExposeMormonism

Your comments are WEAK..and uninformed and just "OPINION"..no FACTS..as I told you time and time again..don't PRETEND to be intelligent..you are anything but that.

[IExposeMormonism]

@imtherealthing You insult me but you don't get to the meat of the matter in Mormonism. Everything I type in is easy to prove. "Blood Atonement and the Origin of Polygamy" By no less than Joesph F Smith! It is Your book. I posted it for you. It's this sort of thing that hurts, right??

[imtherealthing]

@IExposeMormonism

Polygamy..pfft...it was practiced in ancient times..so get over it. Abraham, Isacc, and Jacob were ALL polygamus..yet the Saviour himself said they are in heaven.

Matt. 8: 11

And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus' words..so deal with it...is that the best you can do?

LOL

[imtherealthing]

@IExposeMormonism

Read what the scholars say on the "gods" the Jews worshipped "simutaneously" the "Y" god (Yahweh) and the "E" god (Elohim).

Case in point - read the reference to:

".. ye shall be as the 'gods' knowing good and evil"

Genesis 3:22

God himself said "man is become like one of 'us' knowing good and evil"

"us" here is not the angels as some would argue because that would make the angels equal to God. The trinity is not here..no jew believes in the trinity.

[imtherealthing]

The DOCTRINE of (Theosis) or Deification was believed by MOST early christians and they point to MANY scriptures to support this belief both in the OTand NT

[imtherealthing]

RE: On being gods by grace in reply to Sandra Tanner.

The "couplet" she quotes and ONLY attributes to Lorenzo Snow is the very same couplet found through out Christian history:

St. Irenaeus - "If the Word has been made man, it is so that men may be made gods" (Adv. Haer, V. Pref.)

St. Athanasius repeats the EXACT same thing in the 4th century word for word.

In the 5th century St. Cyril of Alexandria:

says we shall become sons by "participation" (methexis).

[imtherealthing]

Sandra Tanner is a liar..saying she gave that couplet in the 8th grade..give me a break...she is such a liar.

[Nyu1971]

you doubt the couplet.

But you gotta ask yourself the question, is she right?

I think she is right on with what she found out. And she is also right on with what that information implies.

I dont get that from FAIR, nor do I get that from LDS church leadership.

[imtherealthing]

@Nyu1971

Who would you believe?..God's prophets or a bitter and angry person..who has been proven to be a liar?

[IExposeMormonism]

@imtherealthing  I have census for Utah in the mid 19th C and they were just like everywhere else, approx 53% male, 47% female. he couplet is true and from the 19th C.

[imtherealthing]

@IExposeMormonism

Whatever..we all know how skewed and distorted your "facts" are. For the last time...you are no expert on anything LDS nor that intelligent..don't waste my time unless you have something really good to share that isn't regurgitated anti-mormon rhetoric.

[IExposeMormonism]

@imtherealthing You can squak all you want. Name an issue, I'll debate you or anyone. I have the books. You have zip. I have your books and those fleeing Mormonism. If you don't like "Blood atonement and the Origin Of Polygamy", 1905, by the living Mormon Joseph F Smith, then do as Joe said::"LUMP IT". and the population of Utah was like else where:: 53%M 47%F. So all that polygamy means you probably married your sister!!

[imtherealthing]

@IExposeMormonism

You make me laugh...you are a SIMPLETON..not even worth my time..come up with a good objection rather than PARROT "old" anti-mormon objections that have been answered over and over quite satisfactorily.