Are you still in South Korea, Kerri? Is there any way for a Canadian university student to teach in South Korea for just 4 months? Between the end of April and the end of August?
Kerri, I think you explained Krashen's comprehensible input theory incorrectly. "Adults and babies should learn a language in a same way. That is, simply listening and exposure.."
Krashen argues that you shouldn't just listen to people talking in English, French, or whatever. You should understand (comprehend) what people are saying by expanding your vocabulary or improving listening skills. Only when input is comprehensible, there is a value to it.
well i think u shud first build a foundation for urself in a foreign language first, because the krashen method kinda scares me to listen not knowing anything, like learn the pronouns and basic phrases, also what,where,why etc r important, after that i find listening to music and translating each new word on google translate builds up vocab, so thats always good but u need to get used to hearing the new vocab and associating it with meaning
I think that interacting in the target language is key. I taught myself Korean over the summer using the textbooks that my college uses to teach the first level of Korean (along with watching dramas). Because of this, I was able to test out of the first year of Korean but even though my reading and listening skills are okay, I still have trouble forming my own responses when conversing in Korean. It is so frustrating because I understand the whole conversation, but still can't express myself.
@thatcrazyblondchick Wow dude, I feel the same way but with Japanese. well felt, I think I am now getting a little bit better. I have also studied korean here and there too and I know how difficult and simple it can be. It's grammar and it's vocabulary in Japanese and Korean are very similar so I know how it can be. It sounds like you have studied textbooks a lot, just listen to it a lot too and use it as much as you can, even if some people around you don't know korean
Yeah, I've been learning Korean in the same manner I've been learning Spanish and it's NOT working too well! I live in South Texas and should speak Spanish fluently but I found myself continuing self-study in the same style of language learning presented in my Spanish college courses. I think I've relied too heavily on grammar books, etc. to "build" my language skills rather than using grammar to simply better understand what I'm hearing. Does that make sense?! Good luck!
I don't know why theorists want to believe a child learns the same as an adult. Why is it so hard to believe that the brain changes over time?
In other words, babies are hard-wired to accept language. They are looking for language. It's like there are empty slots waiting to be filled in. The brain wants a word for X item.
But in the case of adults, these slots are already filled. The brain no longer needs/wants language. As such, the brain needs to be massaged to accept another language.
@rfwelsh in both cases (baby and adult acquisition) they hear words and they both want to understand the MEANING of those words. The meaning is not a word, it's a concept. I agree with you about babies not "learning" in the same way that adults do. But "acquisition" is universal: it happens the same way. why? because acquisition is a subconscious mental process.
pimsleur is a kind of listening program ......it goes like this two person speak tto each other slowly and third one say in english word by word then he makes you say the whole phrase......................but still there is a proplem you need to practice with someone and if you are lucky takes you slowly i.....i studied spanish part 1 and i need to practice...........note i have almost pimsleur collection i have koriean if you with contact me on birdunderrains@yahoo.com
You can't learn simply by listening. Well, maybe you can? like how do blind people learn? you can't learn very quiclky because you also learn by watching other peoples actions as they talk.
I mean if I listened to nothing but korean podcasts, songs etc for the rest of my life i don't think i'd ever understand - I'd have to see action or something to see their emotions, objects people are taling about
@summer9380 Krashen agrees with you: "listening" is not enough. It Should be COMPREHENSIBLE. Only messages that are understood produce acquisition in the brain. Language that is not understood is mere "noise".
'in my humble opinion' ... most of these theorists, and perhaps teachers generally, are total wankers. Trust what works for you.
Me myself, i like input listening/reading (assimil/linguaphone etc) for comprehension and vocab. Patterns drills & habituation by practising chatting to get 'fluent' / comfortable in speech.
I got lost with Rosetta Stone very quickly with Korean. I swear I could hear a different pronunciation each time I heard the same word. I now believe I got lost because I tried to "romanize" the sounds in my mind.
I changed tactics and started learning the alphabet, so that I can visually see exactly how the word is said. I also get to learn that some single Korean consonant sounds could actually be 2 or 3 Roman letters combined, which may be why I kept hearing the same word differently.
@townbros Korean is no easy language to learn. The "silent period" can be rather lengthy. But if you stick with it, gains will be made. But expect to invest 2000 to 4000 hours of diligent study to reach fluency.
I've been learning Japanese through a number of ways. I think my main tip is to just submerge yourself in the not just the language, but the culture. I listen to Japanese music, watch Japanese movies, etc. I learn my Japanese off of several sites, but then perfect my pronunciation by listening to casual usage in other places. :) Btw...How did you learn Korean (or how would you recommend learning it)? I just learned hangul, and plan on taking up Korean as my next language. ^-^
Rosetta stone forces you to speak almost immediately. It is not an input only approach.
In my opinion, its the greatest waste of money if you are really trying to learn a language, Unless you can get for free...like from your local Library...I really wouldn't recommend it.
I think definitely, like most people have commented, it is a mix between listening and speaking. For example I learned spanish almost completely from just watching movies and listening to music (albeit I did actually study the conjugations and I already was fluent in french so it was much easier.) But I then traveled to Peru where I had no trouble understanding people or getting by speaking but It took me a couple weeks of practicing to actually begin to talk like a normal person and not a baby.
I think that to learn a language as an adult, you need to mix. I don't think one form works. You can't just learn how to speak from listening. Right now I'm learning Japanese at school, and of course we learn from books, but what we also do is practice speaking a lot. What I think we lack from learning at school is listening, we don't spend enough time listening to natives speak the language. I think we must focus on grammar points when we learn a language as an adult, especially for Japanese
@ianpolitano07-too much goes into the language on how verbs get conjugated, and just listening isn't enough. But for tone and intonation, and getting the flow of speech, it would be important to listen to natives speaking. Learning grammar and writing for me has been really effective in learning a lot Japanese.
Perhaps I've misunderstood the process, but I really don't understand how listening ONLY, enables you to understand and subsequently produce the language - because I cannot fathom how, by just listening, you learn what the language actually means - if someone can explain how it works I'd be really grateful because I'd like to try it on the languages I'm learning at the moment. Thanks for your videos kerri - they're really interesting.
I think you misunderstood Krashen. When he is talking about listening, he is referring to "comprehensible input". I favourited a video on my Channel from Krashen where he talks about comprehensible input.
hey cantehk ~ thank you for your comment. i should be the first to admit that i don't know all that much about krashen, and i did watch the video that you favourited, and he does distinguish between input in a general way and comprehensible input. i think it's amazing, and the way that he demonstrates with his two german lessons kind of proves that his theory can work. how have you gone about learning cantonese?
@expatkerri - My Cantonese is very fluent now and I can basically understand nearly everything on TV. I followed the Krashen method :-) I'm trying to learn French now using his method. I can see huge progress in comparison to people that go to Alliance Française.
For Cantonese, I just did tons of listening and can produce smooth Cantonese which I've put on my channel too. I'm going to keep watching your channel. Very good. :-)
wow, you taught yourself! that's impressive. how did you find the right level of input? (Krashen calls it i+1 i think). in my experience, it is difficult to make sure that the level of language input is just above your own level to keep challenging and improving your skills. i have been doing a lot of listening in korean too, but i would say i'm still far from fluent.
@expatkerri - I kept listening to tons of short 1-2 minute dialogues (found someone to speak and record), translated it into pinyin and English. Listened over-and-over to the Canto until it became automatic and moved on.... probably listen to the same thing 100-200 times. Kept learning more and more words... each day need to learn min 10 words. I probably was i+4, but tons of input kinda like obsessive listening and then make random stupid stories in my head using these words.
When I went to Turkey I only knew some basic stuff. I didn't take any formal course, but my ability to understand Turkish is fairly good after one years not speaking, and I am starting to produce complicated sentences now. I think listening is definitely the key when it comes to learn a language.
i went to turkey in 2008~ it was an amazing country. it is one of my favourite places i've ever been. i only learned how to say merhaba and tesek kere derim.. but i was very impressed by the warmth and kindness of turkish people. where did you travel there?
Babies don't rely on input only. They mimic constantly. And when they make mistakes we don't chastise them, but actually find it cure, and encourage them to keep going.
When adults make mistakes, though, most people don't find it cute, but rather a bit uncomfortable. So, the same form of mistake ridden mimicry would be hard to achieve.
Instead, we often end up shadowing audio recordings (repeating what we hear) in private, and dare not speak until we sound a bit more adult than a baby would.
you're right, babies will mimic and make mistakes, and they're in an encouraging environment where their parents constantly praise them, so maybe in that positive surrounding language comes easier than it does to adults.
Finally, another female in the language learning community, all this testosterone was making me nervous. Look, I think Krashens theory is viable but not alone. You need to use methods introduced by people like laoshu505000 and poliglotta80 to assimilate the language more easily. This is one of the methods that loki2504 uses as well using Assimil and Teach Yourself courses. Oh, and Rosetta Stone sucks so don't use it. You're pretty by the way. Please don't let this be your last video. Lata
Awesome 5-star video! Please make more interesting language videos like this one. I would really like to know more about your studying resources and methodology, so please share them with us.
Don't you think female Koreans sound whiny? no offence to them but I always think they're angry at each other.
I have a bizarre work friend - bizarre becasue he was born in India, raised in America, educated in Germany. He's been fluent in Korean since he was 5, also fluent in Hindi, English, German, Nepali, Uldu, Tibetan and a couple of others, and fairly good at about 20 others... Bizarre for a late 20's guy.
@ABombs1 I have actually heard that alot. That Korean sounds like they're angry at eachother or fighting. LoL I wouldn't know as I speak Korean and I have been exposed to Korean since i was young. But as for the females sounding whinny is because they purposefully do that. They try to act "cute" or have "aegyo" (Korean word) means acting like a baby. That might explain it for you.
@ABombs1 Have you ever seen startrek? do you think korean kinda sounds like Klingon language? lol just wondering.... I'm curious how Korean sounds to ppl who aren't exposed to the language at a young age.
I'm trying to absorb some Spanish from work since I've moved to LA but without considerable effort I don't feel like I can pick it up so easily. It does help that its similar to English though. I don't agree with Krashen because once you are an adult and already have a language, you are bound to make connections to your native language which makes it harder to break from it. On the contrary, a baby's mind is like a sponge where everything is new and can be absorbed easily. My two cents.
Are you still in South Korea, Kerri? Is there any way for a Canadian university student to teach in South Korea for just 4 months? Between the end of April and the end of August?
Are you having any difficulty in South Korea?
plzhealme 3 weeks ago
Kerri, I think you explained Krashen's comprehensible input theory incorrectly. "Adults and babies should learn a language in a same way. That is, simply listening and exposure.."
Krashen argues that you shouldn't just listen to people talking in English, French, or whatever. You should understand (comprehend) what people are saying by expanding your vocabulary or improving listening skills. Only when input is comprehensible, there is a value to it.
plzhealme 3 weeks ago
well i think u shud first build a foundation for urself in a foreign language first, because the krashen method kinda scares me to listen not knowing anything, like learn the pronouns and basic phrases, also what,where,why etc r important, after that i find listening to music and translating each new word on google translate builds up vocab, so thats always good but u need to get used to hearing the new vocab and associating it with meaning
neevar123 2 months ago
I think that interacting in the target language is key. I taught myself Korean over the summer using the textbooks that my college uses to teach the first level of Korean (along with watching dramas). Because of this, I was able to test out of the first year of Korean but even though my reading and listening skills are okay, I still have trouble forming my own responses when conversing in Korean. It is so frustrating because I understand the whole conversation, but still can't express myself.
thatcrazyblondchick 3 months ago
@thatcrazyblondchick Wow dude, I feel the same way but with Japanese. well felt, I think I am now getting a little bit better. I have also studied korean here and there too and I know how difficult and simple it can be. It's grammar and it's vocabulary in Japanese and Korean are very similar so I know how it can be. It sounds like you have studied textbooks a lot, just listen to it a lot too and use it as much as you can, even if some people around you don't know korean
supermonk3y07 2 months ago
Yeah, I've been learning Korean in the same manner I've been learning Spanish and it's NOT working too well! I live in South Texas and should speak Spanish fluently but I found myself continuing self-study in the same style of language learning presented in my Spanish college courses. I think I've relied too heavily on grammar books, etc. to "build" my language skills rather than using grammar to simply better understand what I'm hearing. Does that make sense?! Good luck!
miguksaramieyo 3 months ago
@hehsus ~thanks for the comments. your list of languages you're learning is impressive!! learning latin!! wow. what's your native language?
expatkerri 3 months ago
I'll guess everyone here is improving their english through youtube videos, regardless to grammar and stuff XD
PandaJungle 6 months ago
I don't know why theorists want to believe a child learns the same as an adult. Why is it so hard to believe that the brain changes over time?
In other words, babies are hard-wired to accept language. They are looking for language. It's like there are empty slots waiting to be filled in. The brain wants a word for X item.
But in the case of adults, these slots are already filled. The brain no longer needs/wants language. As such, the brain needs to be massaged to accept another language.
rfwelsh 9 months ago
@rfwelsh in both cases (baby and adult acquisition) they hear words and they both want to understand the MEANING of those words. The meaning is not a word, it's a concept. I agree with you about babies not "learning" in the same way that adults do. But "acquisition" is universal: it happens the same way. why? because acquisition is a subconscious mental process.
Blueaspen391 5 months ago
@Blueaspen391 Like with dreams, Adults cannot control what they are dreaming better than a baby does
Blueaspen391 5 months ago
pimsleur is a kind of listening program ......it goes like this two person speak tto each other slowly and third one say in english word by word then he makes you say the whole phrase......................but still there is a proplem you need to practice with someone and if you are lucky takes you slowly i.....i studied spanish part 1 and i need to practice...........note i have almost pimsleur collection i have koriean if you with contact me on birdunderrains@yahoo.com
nassamader 10 months ago
You can't learn simply by listening. Well, maybe you can? like how do blind people learn? you can't learn very quiclky because you also learn by watching other peoples actions as they talk.
I mean if I listened to nothing but korean podcasts, songs etc for the rest of my life i don't think i'd ever understand - I'd have to see action or something to see their emotions, objects people are taling about
summer9380 1 year ago
@summer9380 Krashen agrees with you: "listening" is not enough. It Should be COMPREHENSIBLE. Only messages that are understood produce acquisition in the brain. Language that is not understood is mere "noise".
Blueaspen391 5 months ago
hi, are u canadian?
sk8THC 1 year ago
@sk8THC ~ i am canadian, are you?
expatkerri 1 year ago
'in my humble opinion' ... most of these theorists, and perhaps teachers generally, are total wankers. Trust what works for you.
Me myself, i like input listening/reading (assimil/linguaphone etc) for comprehension and vocab. Patterns drills & habituation by practising chatting to get 'fluent' / comfortable in speech.
MatT3431433 1 year ago
i think that listening only (and repeating after native speakers, but not trying too hard to form my own thoughts) in the beginning works for me.
Jameelah265 1 year ago
I got lost with Rosetta Stone very quickly with Korean. I swear I could hear a different pronunciation each time I heard the same word. I now believe I got lost because I tried to "romanize" the sounds in my mind.
I changed tactics and started learning the alphabet, so that I can visually see exactly how the word is said. I also get to learn that some single Korean consonant sounds could actually be 2 or 3 Roman letters combined, which may be why I kept hearing the same word differently.
townbros 1 year ago
@townbros Korean is no easy language to learn. The "silent period" can be rather lengthy. But if you stick with it, gains will be made. But expect to invest 2000 to 4000 hours of diligent study to reach fluency.
rfwelsh 9 months ago
I've been learning Japanese through a number of ways. I think my main tip is to just submerge yourself in the not just the language, but the culture. I listen to Japanese music, watch Japanese movies, etc. I learn my Japanese off of several sites, but then perfect my pronunciation by listening to casual usage in other places. :) Btw...How did you learn Korean (or how would you recommend learning it)? I just learned hangul, and plan on taking up Korean as my next language. ^-^
TheBermuda 1 year ago
Rosetta stone forces you to speak almost immediately. It is not an input only approach.
In my opinion, its the greatest waste of money if you are really trying to learn a language, Unless you can get for free...like from your local Library...I really wouldn't recommend it.
Great video BTW
Codylangaugesblog 1 year ago
I think definitely, like most people have commented, it is a mix between listening and speaking. For example I learned spanish almost completely from just watching movies and listening to music (albeit I did actually study the conjugations and I already was fluent in french so it was much easier.) But I then traveled to Peru where I had no trouble understanding people or getting by speaking but It took me a couple weeks of practicing to actually begin to talk like a normal person and not a baby.
pamination 1 year ago
hello from canada, ive been learning vietnamese for 6 mnths part time.i like your channel.
meyiyiyi55 1 year ago
I think that to learn a language as an adult, you need to mix. I don't think one form works. You can't just learn how to speak from listening. Right now I'm learning Japanese at school, and of course we learn from books, but what we also do is practice speaking a lot. What I think we lack from learning at school is listening, we don't spend enough time listening to natives speak the language. I think we must focus on grammar points when we learn a language as an adult, especially for Japanese
ianpolitano07 1 year ago
@ianpolitano07-too much goes into the language on how verbs get conjugated, and just listening isn't enough. But for tone and intonation, and getting the flow of speech, it would be important to listen to natives speaking. Learning grammar and writing for me has been really effective in learning a lot Japanese.
ianpolitano07 1 year ago
Perhaps I've misunderstood the process, but I really don't understand how listening ONLY, enables you to understand and subsequently produce the language - because I cannot fathom how, by just listening, you learn what the language actually means - if someone can explain how it works I'd be really grateful because I'd like to try it on the languages I'm learning at the moment. Thanks for your videos kerri - they're really interesting.
storebror21 1 year ago
I think you misunderstood Krashen. When he is talking about listening, he is referring to "comprehensible input". I favourited a video on my Channel from Krashen where he talks about comprehensible input.
cantehk 1 year ago
hey cantehk ~ thank you for your comment. i should be the first to admit that i don't know all that much about krashen, and i did watch the video that you favourited, and he does distinguish between input in a general way and comprehensible input. i think it's amazing, and the way that he demonstrates with his two german lessons kind of proves that his theory can work. how have you gone about learning cantonese?
expatkerri 1 year ago
@expatkerri - My Cantonese is very fluent now and I can basically understand nearly everything on TV. I followed the Krashen method :-) I'm trying to learn French now using his method. I can see huge progress in comparison to people that go to Alliance Française.
For Cantonese, I just did tons of listening and can produce smooth Cantonese which I've put on my channel too. I'm going to keep watching your channel. Very good. :-)
cantehk 1 year ago
wow, you taught yourself! that's impressive. how did you find the right level of input? (Krashen calls it i+1 i think). in my experience, it is difficult to make sure that the level of language input is just above your own level to keep challenging and improving your skills. i have been doing a lot of listening in korean too, but i would say i'm still far from fluent.
expatkerri 1 year ago
@expatkerri - I kept listening to tons of short 1-2 minute dialogues (found someone to speak and record), translated it into pinyin and English. Listened over-and-over to the Canto until it became automatic and moved on.... probably listen to the same thing 100-200 times. Kept learning more and more words... each day need to learn min 10 words. I probably was i+4, but tons of input kinda like obsessive listening and then make random stupid stories in my head using these words.
cantehk 1 year ago
kerri !! :) its nice to hear from u! :D
I got a question.. how did you learn korean?
xoxo
nenadarcy 1 year ago
When I went to Turkey I only knew some basic stuff. I didn't take any formal course, but my ability to understand Turkish is fairly good after one years not speaking, and I am starting to produce complicated sentences now. I think listening is definitely the key when it comes to learn a language.
thexrevolution 1 year ago
i went to turkey in 2008~ it was an amazing country. it is one of my favourite places i've ever been. i only learned how to say merhaba and tesek kere derim.. but i was very impressed by the warmth and kindness of turkish people. where did you travel there?
expatkerri 1 year ago
Babies don't rely on input only. They mimic constantly. And when they make mistakes we don't chastise them, but actually find it cure, and encourage them to keep going.
When adults make mistakes, though, most people don't find it cute, but rather a bit uncomfortable. So, the same form of mistake ridden mimicry would be hard to achieve.
Instead, we often end up shadowing audio recordings (repeating what we hear) in private, and dare not speak until we sound a bit more adult than a baby would.
FluentCzech 1 year ago
you're right, babies will mimic and make mistakes, and they're in an encouraging environment where their parents constantly praise them, so maybe in that positive surrounding language comes easier than it does to adults.
expatkerri 1 year ago
Finally, another female in the language learning community, all this testosterone was making me nervous. Look, I think Krashens theory is viable but not alone. You need to use methods introduced by people like laoshu505000 and poliglotta80 to assimilate the language more easily. This is one of the methods that loki2504 uses as well using Assimil and Teach Yourself courses. Oh, and Rosetta Stone sucks so don't use it. You're pretty by the way. Please don't let this be your last video. Lata
zocurtis 1 year ago
Awesome 5-star video! Please make more interesting language videos like this one. I would really like to know more about your studying resources and methodology, so please share them with us.
TheCrazyStudent 1 year ago
Awesome video !!!! thanks so much ! I'll maybe post a video response to this video !
loki2504 1 year ago
great! i want to see it!! share your thoughts about this whole listening concept...
expatkerri 1 year ago
Oh, and why a map of Europe? Nobody cares about us.
ABombs1 1 year ago
I'm making the video response ! I'll post it soon ! Keep tuned !
loki2504 1 year ago
Don't you think female Koreans sound whiny? no offence to them but I always think they're angry at each other.
I have a bizarre work friend - bizarre becasue he was born in India, raised in America, educated in Germany. He's been fluent in Korean since he was 5, also fluent in Hindi, English, German, Nepali, Uldu, Tibetan and a couple of others, and fairly good at about 20 others... Bizarre for a late 20's guy.
ABombs1 1 year ago
that's amazing, i guess there are some people who collect languages like others collect books... maybe he can teach you some korean!!
expatkerri 1 year ago
@ABombs1 I have actually heard that alot. That Korean sounds like they're angry at eachother or fighting. LoL I wouldn't know as I speak Korean and I have been exposed to Korean since i was young. But as for the females sounding whinny is because they purposefully do that. They try to act "cute" or have "aegyo" (Korean word) means acting like a baby. That might explain it for you.
waterflowzz 1 year ago
@ABombs1 Have you ever seen startrek? do you think korean kinda sounds like Klingon language? lol just wondering.... I'm curious how Korean sounds to ppl who aren't exposed to the language at a young age.
waterflowzz 1 year ago
I'm trying to absorb some Spanish from work since I've moved to LA but without considerable effort I don't feel like I can pick it up so easily. It does help that its similar to English though. I don't agree with Krashen because once you are an adult and already have a language, you are bound to make connections to your native language which makes it harder to break from it. On the contrary, a baby's mind is like a sponge where everything is new and can be absorbed easily. My two cents.
etatauri 1 year ago