Nyiregyhazi unleashes the full force of his fury

[JoeTownley]

I'm ashamed to say I don't know what this is?

[Gamma1734]

Its a beautiful piece but its funny that blanchet just wrote a simply 'f' towards the end of the piece, you also play one single note alone, not octaves.

[cziffra1980]

@Gamma1734 I find the original ending rather ineffective, after the thicker textures earlier in the piece.

[DrMerkwuerdichliebe]

I can sense that full force. Even in mono.

[Martel211996]

Loud doesent mean good..

[PrincessDesert]

That was NOTHING demonic and powerful. I'm not saying he doesn't know how to play, but people that don't know how to play sound exactly like that and think it's sophisticated.

[cziffra1980]

@PrincessDesert I've heard plenty of enthusiastic thumpers but I've never heard anyone produce this type of sound, during my years of teaching.

[PrincessDesert]

@cziffra1980 Maybe I over judged, It's cool sounding, but it sounds exactly like what I do when I improvise on the piano with my saxophonist following me along. Improv to me is like searching, to find and miraculously run into techniques and melodies that I will find worthy of writing down later after I hear our recorded "gibberish." After being trained by Cziffra's student, I'm a perfectionist, therefore every note heard has to be carefully&well chosen in my opinion.

[cziffra1980]

@PrincessDesert Maybe in terms of the NOTES he plays, but if you can produce the actual SOUNDS Nyiregyhazi can in Mosonyi's funeral march, I should be pretty damned surprised.

[GuestAtSea]

@PrincessDesert I don't know... I think I have to side with Schoenberg on this one (check out what he has to say about Nyíregyházi.)

[kasyapa]

PrincessDesert - nobody sounds like nyiregyhazi. the heart-wrenching diminuendo at 0:52-0:53 at the mighty forte at 1:04 alone are unique.

[madlutist]

If you read up on him, it looks like his primary specialty was in orchestral pieces transcribed for piano. He was trying to reproduce the volume of an orchestra in his performances. Pianos can't really do that. His fingers end up bleeding because he resorts to banging when the piano doesn't get loud enough for his taste.

Generally, abrasion is not an indicator for good contact with keys. If you make contact with something properly, you're not going to get cuts.

[Keytaster]

I'm utterly bewildered and stunned by his performance, his ending of this piece I think will haunt me forever. I cannot believe a human is able to produce music in such intensity, power and depth at the same time! Nyiregyhazi, he was a force of nature...

[MrRicksStudio]

Marc-Andre Hamelin has recorded this as well.

[kaleidoscopio2006]

actually, he played it very close to the original, in his way, but he played close to the composer wishes, and anyone can recomend me another full version of this work?it is not a bad work..........

[brcmano]

This recording it's interesting, and Emile-Robert Blanchet's music is unfairly forgotten, but I'm not sure about his fortissimo piano playing, in some bits you can't distinguish what he's playing.

Well, at least are his fingers that bleed, not my ears, 'cause there are some pianists around that have that hability.

[9Simmo]

What is this piece? Anything in Bb minor played in the lower register is awesome!

[wayneredhart]

It says in the title description.

[Rufftyroff]

I wish pianos can be extended to the left like three octaves more for an even more evil sound. (lol evily)

[Rach3Piano]

There are Bosendorfers with 92 and 96 keys :), with extension of the lowest range :)

[wayneredhart]

Yeah, I can scarcely imagine how remarkable Nyiregyhazi might have sounded on one of those.

[jiller72]

Poor Ervin...guy had a hard life. Those notes he's playing..O_O...:(

[Hexameron]

I don't know... I read Bazzana's biography, but I don't sympathize with him. He may have been a melancholy and troubled figure, but he enjoyed a lot of luxuries and abilities that some of us could never experience.

The guy had sex with more women than most of us ever meet in our lifetimes, he had a photographic memory, perfect pitch, and he could drink alcohol excessively and experience enhanced motor skills and pianism as a result. I'm envious...

[RichardMartin2]

I haven't yet read it, so need to. From what I can gather he seems to have been the sort of prodigiously talented person who nevertheless needs someone to "keep him under control", at least to some degree. Tony Hancock was similar in that regard.

[Reaper978]

Bwahahaha....

[Reaper978]

That was supposed to be a response to Hexameron's comment....

[demosj]

I don't think the alcohol had a beneficial effect on his playing. By all accounts (and this video) it wrecked his pianistic capabilities. All of his post-rediscovery period recordings were pretty dire, he made so many mistakes it was like he was sight-reading them.

[IgorTheClown]

Different things make different people happy. have you ever read Siddhartha?

[Ianthe22]

@Hexameron The person you are describing is almost like the person Kim Jong il propagandists describes:D..

[tonecolor]

i said it before and ill say i again, GENIUS!!!!!

[jiolsmolimassunemo]

oh nyiregyhazi... this guy sits miles ahead of so many modern performers who seem to know so much about "proper playing" and "all the right notes" but know nothing about music

[smb12321]

The old school, particularly the Russian - Eastern Europe segment, has passed on. That group thrived under a work ethic that would put many to shame.

On the other hand, one could say that pianism is being democratized. I noticed that of the 29 contestants in the Van Cliburn contest this year there were 13 were from the Orient. Only 9 were Europeans and of that, only 4 were from the once-dominant Slavic countries. All things change.

[dkurgano]

horowitz sound is bigger, no pedal necessary :)

[trevjr]

Fantastic, he is a master of pedaling, he is using that pedal in the middle to hold low drone notes. Listen to the last chord, many many notes in there. And his is not banging, that is power. He is playing in a very specific way, I like him, so many boring pianists out there. Yeah, I want to hear some strings snap.Ervin was like no other, one of a kind.

[NOSEhow2LIV]

Well,it's entertaining,but musically quite pointless;why bother with this? I'd have thunk that bleeding fingers indicote a lack of knowledge of how to obtain a truly big sound. This is not so much big in quality but rather: Disorganoze Decibels! Heavily bashed bass is not interesting for very long.

[cziffra1980]

When caused by blows that almost exclusively come from direct contact with a key, it's actually a pointer towards highly efficient contact with the key and transmission of power. If you don't think he could make a big, resonant sound, get a copy of the CD Nyiregyhazi at the Opera. Hammering from above would be a very different matter. Also, this explosive climax comes after a wonderful lyrical opening. You should hear the whole piece sometime.

[twooffour]

Can I view this whole performance anywhere?

[cziffra1980]

There are just clips in the documentary. There is a little from the start of the piece as well, in the whole film.

[twooffour]

Are any other parts of the documentary on Youtube?

Also, it can't be that there exists no full recording of this performance, right? It was taped from beginning to the end, I assume?

[wayneredhart]

the whole thing is available on an LP. The whole film has never been issued though.

[RabidCh]

"Just press upon the keys until the blood oozes from your fingertips"

Rubinstein to young Rachmaninoff (for tonal advice ironically)

[predoje]

this you call loud? you must be kiding, and is it important to pianist to play only loud? what are you talking about here?

[cziffra1980]

Did, I say it's 'important for a pianist to only play loud'? Read the description through to the end, please.

[tonecolor]

i cant listen to anyone else after hearing Nyiregyhazi

[vivace737]

do you mean that in a good or bad way?

[tonecolor]

in a good way, he moves me in a way that im not compelled to sit with a score listening for wrong notes like most posters seem to do, but im listening to whats behind the notes and that to me is what the ART of a great pianist is all about and he has it in spades for me.

[kasyapa]

yes he did. sometimes you can hear it in the recordings.

[SlyFox616]

Truly a pianist unlike any other. What few recordings exist of his playing need to be protected, respected, and cherished as it is unlikely that there will ever be another like Mr. Nyiregyhazi.

[DualThunder]

loudest pianist in history.

10 wives.

bleeding fingers.

what the hell lol. who is this guy

[shilloshillos]

Nyiregyhazi was the object of a book on child prodigies from a psycho-medical perspective. I forget which book but I remember looking at it at the university library. And it was written before he had a carreer or anything. Has anyone seen this book?

[Arush09]

Haven't seen the book but Bazaana talks about in it Lost Genius

[pianopera]

"The Psychology of a Musical Prodigy" by Dr. Geza Revesz (Hungarian/Dutch psychologist).

[shilloshillos]

Thats It!!! Thanks a lot, you are a connoisseur!

[pianofolle]

a a a a i had to crack up, pianolise. It's not his fault though, the MUSIC he's playing is vulgar

[pianofolle]

mm..too little to judge a pianist.but his Mazeppa(on youtube)is outstanding.a a fabioso82 makes me laugh!but i agree with him that the MUSIC is total trash.though yes he produces great sound. but hard to believe he outplays Horowitz

[fabioso82]

Good that no one knows him. He took his trash in hell.

[Arush09]

Noshim and Checkmatesolidier are correct. It seems they are not confined to puny thoughts & opinions allowed by a small mind. Nyiregyhazi was not concerned with the correct notes. His goal was to convey the deeper meaning of the composition. He even said,"I play all the wrong notes the right way." Not to mention he hadn't touched a piano in decades before this footage. Go ahead and call this rubbish. Enjoy your monochromatic fecal matter the world so dearly embraces today.

[fabioso82]

Yeah, deeper meaning: "Fuck me before I burn in hell".

[gainweighttoday]

this is the best comment in weeks

[gainweighttoday]

I mean arush09-s comment sry

[checkmatesolidier]

i think one of the secrets is that he was playing with complete and utter authenticity, without regard to its cost even to his fingers.

[OrnishMathe]

Agreed.

[SarrasaniPianoCircus]

From the "wrong" (but IMHO better) side of the history. He and many other pianists of that kind murdered by industrial taste and

musicologic fashion....

[purkasz]

This clip is from a TV interview I saw in Hollywood in 1978. I got it to a producer at MGM but nothing ever came of it and they lost my Beta tape!!! Anyone remember the name of the Interview show or have a copy. Love to see it all again.

[cziffra1980]

I do have the complete film. I'll try to upload more of it at some point.

[Dave7Prescott]

The show was "Weekend". It alternated with SNL on NBC. The interviewer was Loyd Dobbins.

[lovesGenet]

Good to see Benko as a youngman. I will have to find the Gretchen. the legends r interesting but some color at piano( not here )is just sad. dohnanyi said he was grt but ... Another testament I will have to listen to carefully .

[swissguy2]

I don't care if Nyiregyhazi changed passages, did not play technically perfectly. To me, he evoked depth, darkness, a brooding beauty through his playing. Give me Tortellier over YoYoMa, Gould over Hewitt anyday. Modern players may be technically perfect but music is about passion, the mood it evokes not about passing your music exam. Tortellier, Gould and Nyiregyhazi were mesmerizing. It is so sad that our society allowed Nyiregyhazi to die destitute.

[alexongcs]

I completely agree! 99% of modern Players today are BORING!

[Tyronethe23rd]

Nyiregyhazi was a sort of musical coelecanth, a living fossil from the 19th century. He was too egoistic, too egocentric and too insecure to change his style of playing with the times, especially since his career fizzled in the 1920s.

I recommend the excellent new biography of Nyiregyhazi by Kevin Bazzana, "Lost Genius: The Curious and Tragic Story of an Extraordinary Musical Prodigy.

[wayneredhart]

Why should he have changed 'with the times'? The emergence of literal pianists with mediocre artistic abilities (like Pollini and Brendel) hardly counts as progress.

Have you forgotten that the Romantic repetoire was written in the 19th century? 20c performance traditions have ruined this music.

[Tyronethe23rd]

I'm not saying he should have changed. Indeed, you have to admire his artistic integrity -- he marched to his own drummer to the very end.

I'm not sure I would dismiss Pollini as mediocre; he has a fantastic technique, but he's like gleaming chrome steel -- smooth, even and quasi-mechanical. Different era, different worldview.

[dmcII]

Tyrone, I'm reading the book now. Fascinating & tragic !

[gnolti]

Nyireghazi channeled a side of Liszt that is far less known to the general public: an Eastern European mysticism. (Arvo Part is the best modern example.)

Technical idiosyncrasies aside, Nyireghazi had a sound and narrative intensity that were unique and died with him.

[cziffra1980]

Largely it died yes. Have you heard 'Michael Sayers' play though? Look him up on google if not.

[gnolti]

I am not familiar with Sayers. Will Google. Thanks.

[kasyapa]

hey sir. any luck on transferring any more e.n. video? of the post-hollywood things i've only seen this and would love to see more.

( what does the commentator talk about after this clip cuts out? )

[cziffra1980]

Sorry, not yet, but I'll look into it. I can't actually recall exactly what the problem was exactly before (something to do with conversion I think) but I have a new computer now so I'll try again soon.

[sophiad85]

hey this gnolti from imdb? iv so, it's me dimous!! sup? ahahaha

[gnolti]

Wow! Hey, dimous. Looks like you and I have similar tastes in music as well.

[op106]

Pity the TV documentary is incomplete. I believe there were two TV documentaries made at this time. Hopefully more of his recordings will be available such as the superb live performances of Mephisto Waltz 1 and 2 and Schubert Wanderer

Fantasy.

[cziffra1980]

Yeah, I have them both but I can't upload more than a short clip right now. I'm not too keen on the mephisto myself (too sloppy and too many lame simplifications, although there are some good moments there too) but the Wanderer Fantasy is pretty wild stuff. There are some things coming out on music and arts soon.

[op106]

With Nyiregyhazi's Mephisto # 1 I never counted or considered the wrong notes and abbreviations but appreciated its Pandora's Box of ideas and artistic possibilities. dormant within the piece. the listener is transported to a new world. Nyiregyhazi makes a grand oil painting while other pianists as perfect and technically impressive just seem to create a watercoloured Mephisto.

thank you for informing me of future releases by Music and Arts its about time.

[cziffra1980]

I agree in places. There are some very interesting sounds in the spot where Liszt writes all the repeated notes (completely changed by Nyiregyhazi though). I have to say that I found most of it lacking in colour due to the technical problems. Do you know the Dante sonata recording? I think that's some of his greatest. The faking and errors doesn't bother me much in that one. In the mephisto I do find that it gets in the way of the music.

[op106]

I agree with you, his Dante Sonata is very well played and quite dark. It's one of my favorites along with Cziffra's spectacular 1959 Torino version. Nyiregyhazi's Mephisto # 2 rendition if you have not heard it is quite something even more intense playing than his Dante sonata.

[cziffra1980]

Where did you get this? Is it from the studio sessions? I never heard of a recording of that. I think I heard that he recorded another mephisto waltz in the same sessions as the Liszt Ballade etc. on the original Liszt LP, but it wasn't included. Is this the one?

[op106]

Yes it is from his studio sessions.

[FlorestanEusebius]

...I just listened to "Gretchen" from the Faust-symphonie - his playing is very expressive and molto cantabile. Only, I noticed that in this recording the piece is almost in A major, in stead of A flat...does that mean that in reality he played it even slower?

[cziffra1980]

Indeed, a lot of these live concert tapes seem to have been played back a little too fast. I hope they'll fix this on the music and arts CDs that are due out. He is known to have transposed works on occassions, but I'm pretty certain that the playback speed is at fault.

[Masatsu]

play very loud doesn't means play well.

[cziffra1980]

listen to the Gretchen movement on the link in the description. Nyiregyhazi's best feature was his cantabile.

[Masatsu]

It's true that in the link you give, i have listened "flower waltz" played by him and it's fantastic...thank you for

[cziffra1980]

Yeah, he used to have great technique when he was younger. Bear in mind that that is a piano roll though. The individuality of his sounds is better captured in the audio recordings, even if his technique had declined by then and he was very patchy.

[suzettegm]

Thank you for posting the link mr. Cziffra,I listened to the Brahms Fminor sonata and it was awsome,gave me goosebumps!He suits Brahms(or the other way round) completely IMHO.

[datruzepp]

ahahahahah diz iz rezpecable fo an old man, but harzhly i juz dun feel much fury from diz perf, tiz tru.

[cziffra1980]

Check out his Dante sonata and Brahms F minor on the website listed under the description. Nyiregyhazi was the loudest pianist who ever played. He had no technique because he hadn't owned a piano in 30-40 years but he played with a fury that nobody else can touch.

[datruzepp]

"You can see why his fingers were frequently known to have bled during performances."

HAHAHAHA FUCK!! tru i vil not argue wiz diz, n juz zay i iz not intendin on zuztainin zimilah injuriez durin ma perfz.

ahahahahaha da DANTE

[driemaaldrommels]

woooooooooow! this man was such a genius!!!! i love his playing! my own pianoteacher helped Bazanna with his book about Niregyhazi. many, many, many thanks for posting this video!

[CCEX]

Thanks for posting this, cziffra1980. This renewed my "Nyiregyhazi fetish", which until know was based on audio recordings and the printed work. I listen mostly to the most intense American pianists playing in the tradition known as jazz: Thelonious Monk, Bud Powell, Cecil Taylor, Art Tatum, Earl Hines, Fats Waller, James P. Johnson, Jaki Byard, Don Pullen, etc., but am amazed at the sounds that even a past-prime Ervin Nyiregyhazi could create. Please post more if you have it.

[LVB1770]

Thanks for posting this cziffra1980!!!

[smithsherman]

Dear PW,Rosenthal,Nyerigyhazi,& Dreyschock R

indeed "thunderers".Interestingly in Rosenthal's

case,it was after he "reformed" his "thundering"

in middle age that his playing yielded such incomparable jewels as "Nouvelle Etude" This kind

of playing does something remarkable to my consciousness.Regards,Me

[Pianowrestler]

Yes, dear Smith, I think I know what you mean, the mazurka's and preludes played by M. Rosenthal never bore me, his sound is just...magical, like Horowitz in Schumann and Gieseking in Debussy. But Nyiregyhazi is terryfying.

Greetings, also Me.

[Pianowrestler]

Glad to find a video of this Romantic Legend on YouTube. I guess this harem contained (in his version) at least 10 different specimens? It's his Liszt that I'm interested in, is there any material?

Of course Smithsherman knows what Schönberg wrote about his expression.

Maybe Rosenthal the thunderer played as loud in his prime.

[cziffra1980]

I have a film of his transcription from St Elizabeth and Sunt Lacrymae Rerum. I can't convert small enough clips to load more than 2-3 mins though. My comptuter goes wrong when I try to convert files at the moment.

[Pianowrestler]

What a pity, I have Sunt Lacrymae Rerum on the Desmar LP, very impressive...thanks also for the link, the recordings on that site are also very interesting. The roll of "Mazeppa" is unbelievable!

[smithsherman]

Dear PW,Cziffra put me on to the Nyiregyhazi

site where there is the greatest performance

on anything that I have ever heard...his

playing of the Dante Sonate.Did you hear it?

Please don't mention Schö...it's blasphemous!

regards,Me

[Pianowrestler]

Yes the two "Légendes", the second "Ballade", the "Weihnachtsbaum" (I have them on vinyl), really great performances of Liszt. This extreme expression may be very "authentic", especially for the late Liszt pieces. Best wishes, E.

[smithsherman]

For most sound is an element of architectural aesthetic to be appreciated.For this Chap sound

is simply a facade expedient.He's playing to

the sound of ultimate reality in the subconscious

mind.If you're listening for "music"...you won't

hear it.

[PianoManSteve]

The only reason people don't really produce such massive sound is that nowadays we look for better tone. I could easily play as loud as Nyiregyhazi or Horowitz but I choose tone quality over loudness. So my point is that the whole loudness factor doesn't impress me all that much.

[kasyapa]

but the tone these days is boring.

[cziffra1980]

If you could play with a sound this massive then please post a film of it. Nyiregyhazi is not always consistent in his tone-quality, but he is capable of a big ringing sound. He doesn't make the same thudding noises as a pianist like Kissin. Also, I've never heard a modern pianist who has Nyiregyhazi's quality of cantabile. I thought tone-quality seems to be one of lowest concerns among modern players.

[PianoManSteve]

I would but I don't have the filming equipment to do so. Anyway, I wasn't saying this was special to me even, but that anyone could do it really. And I always thought of a ringing sound as bad tone, as opposed to a fuller rounder tone. (cont..)

[PianoManSteve]

(..cont) To what kasyapa said, I agree somewhat. Of course even though I view someone like Horowitz's loud bangy tone as a bad tone, it can be very exciting nonetheless.

I'm not saying his loudness is a bad thing, but instead that it's not a hard thing to do. I feel that pianists just don't opt to get so loud because they don't want to be perceived as "bangy".

[cziffra1980]

There are many today who play loud (by hitting the keys from above), but not who can make the sound last like Nyiregyhazi. His softest playing was some of his greatest. The sounds seem don't to fade away- like with a singer (or even an organist). He was inconsistent due to lack of practise, but he could sustain like nobody (both loud and soft). It's nothing like the thudding sounds of players like Kissin or Ashkenazy today. If you honestly think you could make these sounds, record yourself+see.

[cziffra1980]

If you really believe that you ought to hear more Nyiregyhazi. A 'ringing' sound is a bad tone? I'm not quite clear what you mean by that. It's traditional that a 'ringing' sound is thought of as long, resonant sound (same as a 'rounded' tone). Nyiregyhazi's greatest skill was the ability to prolong a sound.

[PianoManSteve]

Oh, by "ringing" I for some reason instictively think of a sharper, more annoying sound. Maybe that's just me though. I haven't heard him play really, I was just responding to the whole loudness comment. Loudness alone isn't really impressive. Loud with a nice full round tone IS though, so if that's what he does then that's great. I'll have to listen to his playing. (cont..)

[PianoManSteve]

(..cont) You compared him to Horowitz's loudness so that instinctively made me think that he has a loudness similar to Horowitz's, which tone quality-wise I think is bad. What do you think of Horowitz's tone?

[cziffra1980]

Horowitz's tone is marvellous. Just watch out for some of the later recordings where the pianos were overly bright. Try the his earlier recordings (they are far better performances too).

[PianoManSteve]

From what I've heard so far, I've found that Horowitz bangs and sometimes has a not so good tone. I like him for other reasons.

[Noshirm]

His teacher Lamond studied with Liszt. His other teacher, Dohnanyi, studied with Istvan Thoman, another Liszt pupil. Notice that he produces a massive sound with nothing in the way of unnecessary mannerisms, bodily movements, and tortured hand flailings. A GENIUS.

[kasyapa]

i have not even watched it yet, and i am on the edge of my seat. at last.

[cziffra1980]

So, what did you think?

[kasyapa]

it was plutonic. possibly the rawest power that ever touched the keys. is there more to be seen?

[cziffra1980]

I have many other things that I hope to upload. Of the two Japanese concerts from 1980, the 2nd is in very poor picture and there is barely any light at all. However, the first is in surprisingly decent quality (although the angle could have been better). I will try to upload more soon.

[writerspleasure]

uploaded yet? been two years!

[kasyapa]

incidentally, the hair-raising part to me is about 0:52 to 1:04 - decrescendo-recrescendo dip. beautiful dynamic and tonal control.

[smithsherman]

This man plays to the primordial voice....to the

first arising and last vestige of an echo in consciousness...to

an endless chasm evincing dimension.There is a

name for this in the Kabbalah.....and that name is ...."Without End"

[Brianjonestown]

What's the kabbalic term for "narcissistic fraud"? The only thing primordial about this whinging manchild was the primitive screaming reactions he drew from outraged audiences around the world demanding their money back. Your "echo in conciousness" is the word "BULLSHIT" repeated a million times. Spare us.

[kasyapa]

free speach includes idiot's rights. enjoy your freedom.

[Brianjonestown]

free "speach"??? Learn to spell and then look up the word "plutonic". Your own freedoms are vital.

[kasyapa]

you are unable to even recognize wordplay - or word use.

[cziffra1980]

Hmmm. Aren't you the same guy who claims on that Cliburn doc that the dictionary's list of acceptable pronunciations for the word pianist is 'wrong'. How ironic that you now restrict yourself to the dictionary.

[Brianjonestown]

Not "acceptable" but "currently in use", and it was indeeed wrong. And look up "irony", kiddo, because there's none on display here. Yes, I believe in spelling and word usage as well: kasyapa understands neither.

[cziffra1980]

As I told you, it is consistent with the Italin pronunciation of the word 'piano'. It is fine.

[Brianjonestown]

Once again you're assuming Italian is English, but luckily the pronunciation in that language is similar to the correct English pronunciation -- not the one resembling the spoken word "penis". Anyone employing the word in the latter usage is in error.

Incidentally I know the Faust and it changes nothing. Wasted talent is not genius. Nyíregyházi was a derelict thumper whose technique stopped evolving early in his career. Your hagiography is hilarious.

[cziffra1980]

The correct pronunciation of 'piano' in Italian (which I have heard plenty of times from an Italian teacher) is similar to the pronounciation of 'pianist' that you feel is an 'error'. It is not. If you think the Faust mvt is the work of a 'thumper' then you aren't listening very carefully.

[Brianjonestown]

Once again you attempt to conflate the two languages and you are wrong on both counts. I'm not a teacher but I am fluent in both Italian and English. It is indeed an error, and no amount of your dissembling will change this immutable fact.

And sorry to disappoint you, but my ears are fine, just like yours. I listened a great deal and I reject your hero worship of this overrated manchild. It is not a matter of your superior listening skills, it's opinion. We just don't agree.

[cziffra1980]

We don't agree, but to call the 2nd mvt of the Faust symphony the work of a 'thumper' would not be a valid 'opinion'. There is very little loud playing there at all.

Regarding the linguistic thing, WHY is it an error when it is validated by the dictionary and when it is the Italian pronuciation? Because you say so? You are not in charge of language, I'm afraid.

[Brianjonestown]

Poor thing.

[Brianjonestown]

Don't be afraid, Cziffy, never be afraid, but now you're the one who refuses to listen. I've explained HOW and WHY in about six different posts on two or three different clips, yet you persist with your juvenile "because you say so?" jabs. So pretend apace, but I'm out...and by the bye, an example of very little loud playing does not make the pianist a sensitive non-thumper. You may now resume your Nyíregyházi-kissing jamboree.

[cziffra1980]

No you haven't. You've just said it's 'wrong'. The dictionary would beg to differ, but you seem to feel that you are a higher authority. If you can't hear beyond Nyiregyhazi's diminished technique or the sensitivity in the Faust mvt then that's fine, but it's your loss.

[Brianjonestown]

You lost because you refused to listen when I explained it, now and months ago. Keep in mind that your heroic defense of the right to speak improperly is not exactly a virtue. Moreover, Nyíregyházi is NOT my loss for, like you, I have listened, weighed and considered before reaching our difference of opinion. But you seem to feel you are a higher authority.

[cziffra1980]

I listened and I heard nothing that would warrant a 'correction' of the dictionary. Perhaps you take issue with the pronunciation of other words that are based in foreign roots, like 'croissant'? If you don't like Nyiregyhazi that's fine. To decide that you know better than the makers of a dictionary is quite a different matter.

[kasyapa]

this jonestown person is a troll. nothing but an attention-seeker. note the rapid assertions of the other's stupidity.

[Brianjonestown]

WOW, I'm so relieved I have your permission to dislike Nyíregyházi! And no, Czif, it was explained clearly, so either you're exceptionally dense or you're just lying to salve your ego. You seem to have dropped your assertion that Italian and English are one and the same, but the dictionary is not your redemption. We both know you're wrong, so read everything again or just drop it, kiddo.

[cziffra1980]

You 'both' know that I'm wrong. However, myself and the dictionary both know that you are wrong.

[Brianjonestown]

I explained the dictionary component in two different posts -- you know this as well. So now it's official! You're both wrong AND a liar. Celebrate at leisure and knock yourself out with your willful abuse of language. Looking forward to more Nyíregyházi crap.

[cziffra1980]

"online dictionaries are for quick-fix simpletons and Cziffra fans. I'm right and that's the end of it."

Oh, sorry. I completely forgot about that marvellous explanation of the dictionary's error. You summed it up succintly and nobly. If that's not incontrovertible 'proof' then I don't know what is.

[kasyapa]

the faust mvt. 2 shows great tonal control - the rachmaninoff concerto mvt. 2 shows it - the liszt "legende no. 2" shows hypnotic tonal control and intelligence. the "nyiregyhazi at the opera" CD shows it. why do people insist on derogating this artist? one could quibble with this or that, as with all art.

[croscream]

When you see a musician with a unusual amount of opposition, you can be certain that that musician embodies a different way of looking at something. Why is Brian so resentful against people who like the music of this pianist? It's a spiritual thing. He attacks the man for being to juvenile all his life. Christians don't like innocence, youth and sexuality.

[kasyapa]

i agree with much of what you say - how does christianity enter? (i'm just curious - i'm not a christian.)

[croscream]

No idea, the fact that it did enter, is more then enough for me to point at them as the guilty party. >=(

[Brianjonestown]

Cziffy, your Nyiregyhazi fetish seems to have weakened your ability to listen. He wouldn't have known cantabile even if it boned him in the ass in the company of the parade of long-suffering women who took care of him. There are a handful of modern touring pianists who play with tone quality; it's true there were a lot more in the 20th century, but Nyiregyhazi wasn't among them. He was just a lothario Helfgott with double the clunkers.

[croscream]

I love you mr. brian and i want to give you a kissy.

[Tyronethe23rd]

I always try to say "piAnist" rather than "PIanist" just so there's no confusion.