@delagrazia I'm guessing that Christian mythology of Hell coupled with the James Woods depiction of Hades (Disney's Hercules) has this current generation forget that.
Hades was a gloomy, brooding and unlikable jerk in most stories but he wasn't evil. Typhon was evil, Hera was worse than Hades (Well, she was more a woman scorned of which hell hath no fury)
@MrUberSpanky Nah, he seems like one of the good guys. He has the last word in this Documentary and it's brilliant. Unfortunately I couldn't go past the third part. I'm sure the rest is somewhere on Youtube though
@Gravija1980 The snake is a metaphor for the devil/Satan/Iblis/Lucifer! Satan is not Angel but a demon made of smokeless fire(jinns) this is Satan (the devil)! also the bible contradicts if Angles are created to perfectly obey God n can not disobey ever then Satan was not angel but a creature elevated to the status like the Angels! Satan had no authority or power but what God allowed him! Satan rebel's against the command of God the was banished from heaven n awaits hell on the day of Judgement!
@moeazysgc "The snake is a metaphor for the devil/Satan/Iblis/Lucifer!"
That wouldn't make any sense since the story attempts to explain why snakes don't have legs. The primitive culture that came with that story tried to explain it that way, we now know that it is simple a result of natural selection favouring the abortion of atrophied limbs in ancient burrowing/swimming lizards.
Either way it is nowhere implied that the snake is the Devil. it would make no sense since snakes were punished
@ProcInc Did not the snake deceive Adam n Eve into eat the forbidden fruit well the Devil/Satan is the one who deceived Adam n Eve still deceives Mankind to this day n until judgement day!!
@moeazysgc "Did not the snake deceive Adam n Eve into eat the forbidden fruit "
Not according to you. You are saying the devil did and the snake was only a metaphor.
Snakes got punished, not the devil. Unless of course you are saying your god is so stupid that he fell for the trick and punished an innocent species instead.
@ProcInc Omg Are you that ignorant n stupid the snake is the Devil/Satan you dumb ass! And no in my believe Adam n Eve did not get punished or banished from heaven n they repent n were forgiven by God! It was the will of God to sent them to earth to test them n their offspring! God gave us free will(the choice to rebel or to submit to his will)! Satan the devil choose to rebel n is dammed to hell for eternity on the day of Judgement! but Mankind will be judge accordingly on that day!
@moeazysgc "Omg Are you that ignorant n stupid the snake is the Devil/Satan you dumb ass!"
I get that you are claiming that but for some reason you can't see the several reasons that doesn't make sense.
Answer the most obvious one. If the snake was the devil in disguise then why is it that all species of snakes received the punishment of leglessness and the devil didn't.
Either god was fooled by the devil or it was an actual snake.
these ppl are fucking idiots jews and christains did not come from this non sense why else do u think both bibles say STAY OUT OF BABYLON THE GREAT AHHHHDERRRRRRRRP!
@PaleAngel7779 "jews and christains did not come from this non sense " not did they evidently get their beliefs from this nonsense but in many ways they managed to make it more nonsensical.
"why else do u think both bibles say STAY OUT OF BABYLON THE GREAT"
What a naive and irrelelent question. First of all there aren't 2 bibles (presumably you mean the Torah and new Testament which is in fact ONE bible together or the multiple versions of the bible which is far more than 2)
@PaleAngel7779 "i have alot of jewish friends" Then you would know that the Jewish Holy Scripture is not called a "Bible". I even pointed this out in my earlier message. Please read before you respond.
"jew just belive that jesus isent god"
Referring to the Jewish people in the singular "Jew" is derogatory. Again, I doubt you have Jewish friends further. Also Jesus isn't even a god according to proper Christianity. He always describes himself as seperate from and subordinate to Yahweh
@ProcInc the torah yes its diffrent but the same and jesus is god the son then theres god the father and god the holy spirt there all one in trinity >.> so.... ur point? same god diffrent worship imo
@PaleAngel7779 "the torah yes its diffrent but the same" I was the one who explained this to *you*. It isn't called the Bible so that would say "both bibles" is an enormously elementary error.
"and jesus is god the son then theres god the father and god the holy spirt there all one in trinity"
As I pointed out though, this is a non-biblical interpretation. Nowhere in the Bible is Jesus identified as God, especially by himself. The Messiah isn't even meant to *be* God in the first place!
@ProcInc he say that hes the son of man >.> this in it self points out hes god and The Messiah i am the alpha and the omega ding ding ding and i said they where a trinity all in the same and not of the same our minds cant fathom it bro
@PaleAngel7779 "he say that hes the son of man >.> this in it self points out hes god"
No, that's your interpretation in no objective sense does "son of man"="god"
"and i said they where a trinity all in the same"
Yes, you said that, that doesn't make it true. Judging by your poor theological knowledge (goverened by eroneous interpretation mainly) it makes the opposite all the more likely.
"our minds cant fathom it bro" yes they can, it is a direct contadiction. A fantasy
This is only found in the later copies of Revelations (not the earliest). Obviously this event never really happened (or indeed WILL happen) and isn't even scripturally supported, being yet another example of an ad hoc passage (Added after the original).
It is clear that even if Jesus existed he was never recorded as claiming to be a god (Though he appears to be the victim of later charges of being god). Your retorts are not as tight as you seem to think
@PaleAngel7779 Ummm, much of the Tanakh was written while the Jews were in Babylon. Ever hear of the Talmud? Jew were Babylonian. Hell, even Abraham was Babylonian and grew up in the shadow of the temple/palace of one of the "true" gods. You need to do some reading other than the mistranslated Christian Bible. Seriously.
"Evil is real and must be opposed." If not taken out of some sort of context, is the most ignorant statement made by an appointed, supposed, authority figure
@Raafje84 "Evil is the result of what happends when man does not have gods love present in his heart."
Not so, one can be evil and yet be strongly religious, even believing they are acting out of any number of gods' love
People can also be very good and at the same time vehemently antireligious. the only correlation between the two is that for an intrisically good person to do something bad, it takes religion to inspire them to do it.
@ProcInc I am aware of this. I do believe that indoctrination and false information fed by people that are so called religious leaders are dangerous.
But we as a western ''civilization'' we are aware now what the difference is between right and wrong and between good and evil.
These christian rules included in the ten commandments should be enough to understand the difference between good and evil. Friendly greetings from Holland
@Raafje84 "These christian rules included in the ten commandments should be enough to understand the difference between good and evil"
-Firstly, the Ten Commandments are originally semitic, not Christian
-Secondly, good and evil isn't detailed in the ten commandments you are thinking of. Simply a set of do's and don'ts, half of which have no moral value whatsoever ("Keeping the sabbath" is hardly evil not to obey)
-Thirdly, *the* ten commandments are even less a moral guide (EX: 34)
hell is not just a place but also like planet and hell is the most dirty odors smell death breaths, living in hell is like living inside the devils lung _you breathe their breath you felt dryness in your mouth and you have no strenght. what so scary and suffering about hell is the oral death breath and tormented.
Sataniel(Satan's name before being cast down) derives from Sett(cast into the abyss of the desert for his actions) or possibly Seti an Egyptian priest who historically bragged of his cruelty towards the workers between 1300-1200 b.c.e. During this period of time is when Iha(nothern) and Shed(Southern) begin to appear in Egyptian mythology, before being joined with Horus to create the form of Horus the younger in the book of the dead which is the basis of Judaism and thus in turn Christianity.
@ProcInc true enough there's more to it, and my date's may be off a bit. Just trying to show it goes back farther than this documentary states is all. And history repeats itself, even if there were similar figures before Yeshu, I believe there were, doesn't mean Yeshu wasn't real. In fact I could see the majority of them being the same spirit performing the same actions, to further the creator's design.
@Eddy666Nax Extrapolating similar themes in mythology into the same origin is a tentative study at best.
There are many aspects of Judeo-Christian mythology that can certainly be linked to earlier religions but more generalised themes such as a personification of evil can be reasonably assumed to be independently derived.
@ProcInc Go actually study mythology and theology before you correct me child because you are no where near right. There is no question that Judeo-Christian beliefs primarily derived from Egypt, they have it in the old and new testament. Set(Upper Egypt) did not start out as the personification of evil in Egyptian mythology in fact he originally held the same role as Horus(Lower Egypt) under a different pantheon. Apep the giant serpent trying to eat the sun was evil/destruction incarnate.
Set only became "evil" as a means for Lower Egypt to justify the subjugation of Upper Egypt. No more no less. I was merely explaining further the origin of the character and name.
@Eddy666Nax There is no definite link established as of yet is all I am saying. There may be some good parallels (albeit some being exaggerated) but ever since things like that "Zeitgeist" there needs to be caution excercised in announcing that one religion begat the other or that correlation equal causation at all.
Also, I did not refer to Set as the personification of evil, rather the personification of evil was a separate example
@ProcInc Established no, there yep. it just takes a lot of space in the head to figure it out, only reason I have a clue is as one might guess from my attitude towards other people, is people don't really like me. so far too much time to think about such things and little to distract me from my own mind's constant barrage of questions. Just sought the answers basically because I wanted to end the world's fighting but perhaps my reason, merely an attempt to show the world what they cast off.
You don't see anything wrong at all with that statement? Basically you are saying there is no indication at all (hence the term "established") but feel justified and confident in asserting it anyway.
Babylonian, Sumerian and a few other Middle Eastern religions are direct semitic ancestors to Judaism but Egyptian mythology is too far removed for a causal link.
It distracts also from the fact that Judeo-Christianity needn't be unoriginal to be demonstrably false
@ProcInc Actually I'm saying my studies have made me privy to things that would drive most insane, first time damn near did. But more importantly I'm saying that just because it's not excepted as absolute fact yet, doesn't mean the evidence is non existent. And you defeat yourself there, the whole Mesopotamian region cross influenced they all have similar themes, but Moses leading the Israelites out of Egypt was a central part of both old and new testament, so yeah like I said in the book.
@ProcInc Funny you do know the Charlton Heston movie wasn't Biblicaly accurate right? Moses(cough* Iha *cough) the guy who wrote the book was raised by Egyptians, safe to say he knew Egyptian mythology. And let's just say the world's modern sense of this deceptive reality is going to get turned on it's ear before long. But preaching what I've learned that almost made me lose my mind and causing others to suffer to prove a point? Not happening, people aren't ready.
"the guy who wrote the book was raised by Egyptians"
It is firmly established that Moses was not a historical figure which goes without saying he did not write the pentateuch.
You are trying to argue that what you are saying must be true because it nearly drove you insane, I just find that sad. If what you were arguing were true it would have no bearing on any worldview of mine at all and I don't believe that anything would shake the fundations of my sanity if it turned out to be true
@ProcInc nothing 5,000 years ago can be verified to an extreme degree and just because the name Moses is the one I brought up doesn't mean he was the basis for himself. the name Moses is only used after he allegedly came down from Mt Sinai anyway, the earliest versions of the old testament used a number of different names before taking the name Moses, which is possibly a reference to RaMoses. Not at all saying that facing and defeating the demons that cause such plagues is my proof.
@Eddy666Nax "nothing 5,000 years ago can be verified to an extreme degree"
They can however be verified to a sufficient degree. We have enough information to verify that the Pentateuch was a composition of writings from different nations of different religions at different times and did not have a single author or even editor.
That is also a cogent explanation for the confusion with the names.
@ProcInc and a conclusion one could derive from your apparent misplacement of trust in modern science's absolutism, is that indeed you'd shake like a chihuahua in a blizzard. We are talking here about one small piece of a puzzle made by our creator, which is in some sense the human race as a whole, even if we don't know we did it. But you think in a debate over a name I'd reveal much of anything? Prove you posses the wisdom to handle it and I'll provide a puzzle piece of more value.
@Eddy666Nax "and a conclusion one could derive from your apparent misplacement of trust in modern science's absolutism"
Modern science by definition is a rejection of absolutism.
"We are talking here about one small piece of a puzzle made by our creator"
Our creator? Now this makes sense. You are using the excuse of Christianity being a composite religion in order to support your own composite religion.
What sort of evidence would prove I'm able to handle your silly beliefs?
@ProcInc "Religion" now what have I done to be compared with blasphemers? you judge and assume you know me who's the true fool? Not to mention personal attacks in debate are the sign of a weaker mind. No one can play buffer between god and man, let's just say I'm the type here to balance the scales, wouldn't start a religion I don't believe in them.
@Eddy666Nax ""Religion" now what have I done to be compared with blasphemers?"
You believe in a specific supernatural narrative, in this case with a "creator". That, provided you have a belief in a preservation of self after death constitutes religion The concept of blasphemy is a religious one.
"you judge and assume you know me who's the true fool?"
You seem to believe that you are the only person who has ever thought the way you do.
@ProcInc and priests and a church, I'm flat out saying people need to stop looking for such answers from others, humans are flawed and even one seeking do well teaching such things can just as easily do harm. People want answers from god go through the theology and mythology of the world and weigh it out and learn to find the real rather than the self perceived and ask Ohm questions. only piece no ones likely to choke on, it was hidden in the open, as well as mouths of minds seeking answers
@Eddy666Nax "and priests and a church" Not all sects do. The point is there is nothing unique in your belief system that distinguishes it from religion.
"I'm flat out saying people need to stop looking for such answers from others, humans are flawed "
There is no logic in believing you are a self-sufficient source superior to any other person in this regard. Answers should be based on evidence, not authority, no matter how much authority you wish to grant yourself
@ProcInc and forums are where debate originated from, two opposing sides in verbal confrontation or in this case corresponding confrontation is debate.
@Eddy666Nax "and forums are where debate originated from, two opposing sides in verbal confrontation or in this case corresponding confrontation is debate."
Perhaps colloquially but your position is not respectable enough for opposition of it to be classed as a formal debate.
@ProcInc Perhaps I've experienced contact perhaps not it is an extremely internal experience won't know until others are brave enough to listen rather than wait for a chance to speak. and a clarification on a subject of debate regarding Muhammad from my experience it's not a seizure. when the third eye is open and sees beyond the illusions it's intoxicating and can lead down unfortunate paths. but not like humanity birthed it's "demons/viruses" into the world through ill will or anything.
@ProcInc ah so you were in my head and experienced it? didn't think so. go bloody find the creator yourself and find out, or you like so many others ready to sit back and get out shown by a 26 year old stoner drop out. no savior you want saved you need to put in the effort. As was stated I nearly lost my mind, breaking the walls of deception is no big deal. the labyrinth is ours to get out of by whatever means, pulling the floor out though leaves no where to stand. so insult me, I DON'T CARE.
@Eddy666Nax "ah so you were in my head and experienced it?"
No, I've simply experienced your delusions before, there are entire magazines dedicated to your kind of thinking. There was even that Zeitgeist movie with much the same argumentation as you and the factual errors contained well known.
So first you had a creator, now a savior and you deny religiosity? you see the issue here?
@ProcInc I berate Zeitgeister's for being ideological fools so comparison to them is a bit off. not just now that I deny religion it's been since childhood. experienced the same things my ass, you presume too much there. been basically tripping DMT since I was 5 from a head injury, was molested before that, parents divorced, abusive alchy stepdad, another severe h.i. at 14 and again at 20, spent the last 5 & 1/2 years healing my body, mind, and spirit. you know nothing about me
@ProcInc oh and was correcting my teachers as early as 10 and at 12 a teacher acknowledged that I taught him something so I suggest maybe toning down. if you actually know you're stuff after all, even if yeshu came to the flesh only of the mind, Alexander the Great conquered the known world in his time. Don't let the Diogenes facade I bare now be all you see or you'll go blind if you glimpse reality.
@ProcInc lol a religious nut can't be as much fun to argue with XD not scarred are you? cause that wasn't a threat I just know, no one likes eating crow and felt the info a fair head's up.
@Eddy666Nax I'm getting nothing out of "arguing" with you. I think you have a serious case of narcissistic personality disorder and some more serious mental issues. Its best I disassociate myself with you entire and request you go and bother somebody else with your nuttery
@ProcInc lmao don't you have to have an ego to be a narcissist? Even if I turn out to be the Anti-Christ or Savior I'm nothing special and never claimed to be. And good to see judge not lest ye be judged carries in peoples heads, quite an opinion off like zero info. I don't have mental problems aside from society's obsession with labeling everyone and head injuries to work through. Not my fault western civ doesn't count the 3rd gender. just get 2 people to argue with when it's me.
@ProcInc besides ancient Egypt is the home of the oldest recorded attempt to implement monotheism, it was centered around a sun god called Aten between 1400-1300 BC. So yeah likely source of their attempt to do the same. You're ignoring history makes you the one who's ignorant in this instance not I.
Illuminati own the media and the press and the education system. Let's hear a word from one of our most beloved presidents. Listen to his speech on the secret societies. God bless you John f Kennedy, may jesus keep your soul resting peacefully til the day we are resurrected and delivered from this earth whom the devil has successfully deceived and blinded.
@Redrum059 "his speech on the secret societies." This was made 50 years ago and yet nothing has changed.
What evidence do you have that the illuminato exist let alone own the media? Besides, different media outlets vary in the subjctive element making it clear that no one figurehead is in control. There is also a balance of positive coverage of catholicism in the media as well, not to be expected if an extinct anticatholic group was in charge.
You counter my least important points. I have yet to receive an explanation of the eye of Horus/shiva/Lucifer/GOD known as the all seeing eye, also known as "the great seal" even luciferians such as aliestar crowly use such symbols. Symbolism it's everywhere. But ofcaurse u are mustlikely goingto reply on my symbolism then the meaning of the all seeing eye. There's even talk of charls darwens father and grand father being masons.
@Redrum059 "known as the all seeing eye, also known as "the great seal". It is actually known officially as either, it is a symbol known as the "eye of providence" and is an anthropomorphic symbol of providence looking upon all people.
what exactly is profound about the use of symbolism?
NOVUS ORDO SOCLORUM "new world order" it is found on the dallor bill, ghw bush gave a whole speach on it, where the world will be under the one rule of law. the all seeing eye was planted on the dollar not too long ago, please explain what it means and why it is found in many churches, religions, music videos, movies, arts,.yes men are capable of taking over the world, it takes well planned out steps and much time such as hundreds of years.
@Redrum059 "NOVUS ORDO SOCLORUM "new world order" it is found on the dallor bill"
novus ordo soclorum translates to "new order of the ages" and signified the beginning of the new American government (as proposed by Charles Thompson). Minimal research could have informed you of this yet you accuse me f not engaging in enough research.
Your grasp of most subjects appears to be entirely imagined, it only natural the conclusions you inevitably draw form them are misinformed
do you honestly believe that you ( a common 22year old youtuber) are smarter then the men who began many societies including secret ones, is that what you are saying, that any person that believes in evolution is smarter than any one who believes in GOD"becuase it seems like it with your (hypocracy in christians video) i saw. cuz the most powerful men in the world have religious aoths. have you ever gone to court and been forced to place your hand on a bible?
@Redrum059 "do you honestly believe that you ( a common 22year old youtuber) are smarter then the men who began many societies including secret ones"
What a strange question, especially since you are the one claiming to be smarter than them since you claim to have 'pu tthe pieces together' and exposed their subversion. If that were in any way true rather than laughable it would mean the conspirators are so incompetent then anybody can work them out
@Redrum059 "believes in evolution is smarter than any one who believes in GOD"
so long as they have a clear understanding of what evolution is they are certainly more correct. However the majority of people who accept evolutionary theory believe in a god anyway.
everything around us is refernce to god. when were you born, and dont say 1988 cuz 1988 "ad" is refernce in years since the death and resurection of Jesus Christ, so i guess you better come up with a date more like "year 6,226,201,988" are you getting my point? "the new world order", the bio-chip that can fit inside of your hand, aliens, it has all been metaphoracly prophecised in the bible. stop living in denyal, fallenangels run shit. time to wake up.
@Redrum059 "when were you born, and dont say 1988 cuz 1988 "ad" is refernce in years since the death and resurection of Jesus Christ"
By that logic you can't say what day of the week it is because they are all named after Norse Gods.
So your point is moot. All of your silly ravings about aliens and "biochips" were never prophesised not even implicitly (revelations was meant to be a metaphor for then-current events around the Roman Empire anyway).
Satan is evil, he was cast out of heaven and most religious books including christian and the Muslim book. This bullshit video lost it's credibility due to it's checkerboard pattern floor in the beginning which is a masonic symbol. Masons and illuminati due these things to confuse watchers to aid Satan. Yes satan "was" an angel in heaven but fell due to his pride. He is evil
@Redrum059 Satan isn't evil, he's fictional. The backstory you give contradicts backstores others have given.
A checkerboard pattern is a common floor pattern, most people's bathrooms have it. Masons don't do anything, they're just a club for egotists who like wearing aprons they have neither the resources nor ability to be active conspirators
@ProcInc "masons are just a club of egotist who like wearing aprons" cant argue with that lol, but you cant deny that many of the US founding fathers including washington and majority of our presidents were free masons. there are masons in the white house,he heads of congress and many top judges are freemason, so you cant deny that they have a say in how we live in society. you may not believe in the devil but the ppl who run shit in the world do.
@ProcInc you may believe in evolution and dont believe in the supernatural, and i completely respect that and have no problem with it. but dont you find it funny that the ppl who contral our education and force darwens theory down our throughts believe in god and the devil themselves.
@Redrum059 I don't find that funny because it isn't true. Firstly nobody is forcing any scientific theory down anybody's throat. Scientific curricula is determined by whichever science can be verified and of course is useful. From the '20s-'60s in the United States there was a powerful lobby that succeeded in censoring evolutionary theory form the classroom but it was action of the citizenry and scientists who ended this tarnish on American Education.
@ProcInc so you dont believe that almost all of our presidents were freemasons. thats common knowledge
so if you dont believe it then i guess its pointless talking to you. secrete societies run shit, mainly masons and illuminati, the signs are everywhere, even jfk gave a whole public speach on it warning us. open your eyes. its even on the dollar bill "in god we trust" and the "all seeing eye" only question is who is this god they are refering to. its time for u to do your research.
@Redrum059 "so you dont believe that almost all of our presidents were freemasons. thats common knowledge"
most were, some aren't. Most were boy scouts too, its of no value aside from a bit of trivia. I never denied that some presidents were freemasons.
What sort of a secret society leaves signs everywhere? If they are so incompetent they cant cover up their on conspiracy then there is nothing to be concerned about.
Also you start off saying masons then you move to 'fallen angels'...?
@ProcInc i cant deny that you know your stuff, and you're also good at countering many of my points i throw out. But i honestly think that you are realy realy underestimating the powers of these secret societies. yes they leave their marks everywhere but it wasnt until the spark of the internet that people started putting the peices of the puzzle together and showing the whole world the big picture. but even then ppl are quick to ignore such hints. the majority of ppl still are ignorant to this.
@Redrum059 "but it wasnt until the spark of the internet that people started putting the peices of the puzzle together and showing the whole world the big picture."
No its just that before the internet it wasn't as easy for people to make things up out of nothing and reach a wide audience with them. Whacked out conspiracy theories have always been around ( the magazines "Red Dawn" and "Uncensored"). There is nothing to underestimate
@ProcInc you know what, you actually underastimate man. you fail to relize that there are men smart enough are capable of such great measures and actions that can shake the foundations of our world,that men are able to come together and plot on how to rull the world."in god we trust" found on the dollar bill and "under GOD" in the pledge of alliegance, the men who create the foundations of the governments around the world believe in god.
@Redrum059 "men are able to come together and plot on how to rull the world."
Even if a enormous group was secretly ploting there is no realistic scenario in which they can stage a successful campaign to carry out the agenda regardless of the resources they had at their disposal. This can't be an underestimation of man either since it would be man that would resist such as campaign anyway.
The founders of USA did not intend for "Under God" to be in the pledge "or in god we trust" (cont.)
(cont.) both were aded in the 1950s by a catholic lobby group who took advantage of the anti-communist sentiment prevalent at the time and conflated atheism with communism (therefore de-secularising the United States, one of the most constitutionally secular states in existence). The orignal motto was "E Pluribus Unum" (from many, one) which actually meant something to all citizens and not just monotheists
ahhhh whatever. The whole God and satan things is all manmade bullshit in my opininon. Calm down believer in God and Satan. Let's be frank, would you bow down to someone inferior to you when you have fully devoted yourself to your master. Then he tells you to serve some inferior twit. no way. chill out.
@RomanJulliEmperor243 Do you understand that you believe this person will be tortured forever and express it with a lighthearted comment and a smile?
That goes to show how warped and evil the minds of perfectly normal people can become under the influence of religion without them even realising. If hell to you is a genuine belief, don't threaten people with it with a smile on your face! Psychopathy is defined by a lack of empathy and you have demonstrated that in spades with a simple remark
@RomanJulliEmperor243 Ironically the same could be said of you now. To threaten another with Hell, especially in the callous way that you do makes yourself worthy of hell according to your own religion. If a Hell exists to do pieces of scum like you justice then it's almost worth it.
I guess you are stuck with the same risk as the atheists. Eternal punishment and torture for being the crappy human being you are (if you're right) or freefall through nothingness for eternty
@ProcInc Who cares what you think why, because Jesus, Yahshua said that there was hell and there is.NOW if you reject the scriptures then you might as well die and find out for yourself IF YOU DIDT HAVE A GOD AND ONLY FATHER YOU ARE A DAM ALIEN OK? DOnt talk shit here most of us are loyal to the father and if you interfere you will be hit by the wrath of god, AND NO I DONT FOLLOW RELIGION ONLY FAITH OK?
@RomanJulliEmperor243 Aww, looks like I touched a nerve. I guess the logical conclusion of the glee you derive from others being tortured makes you realise that you would be joining them after all.
"DOnt talk shit here most of us are loyal to the father and if you interfere you will be hit by the wrath of god"
haha but you feel that it is perfectly reasonable for you to talk shit without rebuke? I guess the Golden rule is not morality you accept either.
It is only by your own standards that I am certain your chances of going are as good as mine (if not better since more religions condemn your sort than simple 'apostates' like me) and what base standards of humanity they are.
I differ in that I can not offer you survival of your own death with eternal paradise or a bevy of virgins, nor can I threaten you (especially with the glee you have) with eternal torture if you do not listen to crackpot beliefs.
(cont)Instead rather than threats or promises, neither of which I can keep I can only offer the truth.
But that is far more than you can offer. Merely threats and a display in doing so of how your religion has turned you into a person bad enough to join those whom you condemn in the punishment you assign to them. A truly atrocious and unjust punishment you condemn them to with a smile.
That is why if there were a hell if would be bursting with the seams with those like you. That must scare you
@ProcInc Ok can you stop being a smartass cuz whatever you say is false imean "Everything". now stop commenting because even before you started you had lost already nerdy milenium guy.
@ProcInc Besides your brainwash "works" wont work with us now stop trying to brainwash other people that are blinded by your thoughts now stop bullshiting and take my word "Your not going to right way" i dont care if your 24 and are Athiest or watever you are i dont care but dont share your knowledge now stop being a smartass and just be quite "Everyone has there own beliefs if they dont believe in the one and truly", Remmeber i dont care what you think just stop trying to tell oter people.
@RomanJulliEmperor243 I find it amusing that you came here trying to provoke and it turns out you were the one who ended up shaken up.
Perhaps next time you will follow the oft told advice "Judge not, lest ye be judged".
Not only were you schooled on morality and humility (by an Atheist no less :p). But you then flat out admitted you don't want to learn ("dont share your knowledge")!
You need to take a long hard look at the mirror and ask if your beliefs make you a better person...
@RomanJulliEmperor243 Oh really? and pray tell where in any previoud message you have pointed out and corrected a mistake.
Because the only messages I have received is the one that condemned you to apparently join me in hell and the one when you started to get angry and upset when I pointed out how your own theology rebukes and then refuse to learn anything.
What exactly did you hope to accomplish from your first message anyway?
Satan gets my respect. He gave God the middle finger. God is twisted entity.
'Suffer little children to come unto me' - more like let priests molest little children.
'when someone slaps you, show the other cheek' for him to slap' - more like saying if you can't beat us, join us. African slavery, The Pilgrims, Spanish inquisition.
Feel sorry for those who suffered hoping they will seek paradise.
@shinjide213 Well, remember to take into account those particular elements of Satan were mainly derived from works such as "Paradise Lost" and not so much Christian mythology.
The Devil is a fictional character who was never definitively fleshed out. It could be anything from an omnimalevolent force to a valient antihero
@witchcerridwen No, I wasn't a priest (The earlier message of mine referred the those in the video). I never had a fear of Hell because I understood the mythology before anyone attempted to expose it to me as a legitimate threat
The idiots doing this video don't know what they are talking about. They totally skipped Revelation 12:
7: And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8: And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9: And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Well far be from me to hold the testimony of bishops, reverends and theologians above an internet random but exactly what there is relevent?
Unless you believe 12:9 states the snake in genesis was satan which it has no explicit reference. It would make the whole "how the snake lost its legs" story make no sense whatsoever. And that's saying something for a story that already has brainmaking fruit, a clay man and a rib woman
and you think the ones who don't that literally are idiots lol
@ProcInc "exactly what there is relevent?" At 2:28 Dr. Helen Bond says: There's no kind of Prince of Darkness, somebody who's standing opposite to God. Throughout most of the text, there's no concept of an Evil force."
I only used one example, there are many scriptures stating Satan, the Devil, the Dragon: tempts people into sin, fights against God, etc.
But anyway that isn't the fundamental point to carry across anyway. The point is that there is such thing as a devil. And no rational argument can contest this
@ProcInc If the good Doctor is going to exclude the New Testament in order to establish a "fact", then it is no longer factual and is biased. The Old and New Testaments are bound together, you can not accept one and act as if the other didn't happen. As far as the "acid-trip scrawlings of revelations", If that is indeed how it happened, you are just not able to grasp what is not in this physical realm.
Why are you trying so hard to purposefully misunderstand? The video itself is called "HISTORY of the Devil" meaning they are exploring the concept of the character chronologically throughout semitic mythology.
In the Old Testament there is no idea of the "anti-god" character but when Zoroastrian philosophy are assimilated into Jewish culture this changes. your "rules" regarding accepting the NT and OT are entirely arbitrary. Besides we know for fact that in a literal sense neither happened
@ProcInc I understand what they are doing. Establishing what the Devil is in order of how he is presented. I don't agree with the influence a statement like that has on viewers knowing what the Devil is revealed to be later.
@rlwieneke One of the basic points you still insist on missing is that what the character is "revealed to be" is a direct contradiction to what it was. It completely messes up the chronology and role of the characters.
And what's more we know WHY there is a change in the chracter roles. Because the scriptural change in Satan's character corresponds with Persian influence on Judeo-christian Mythology.
"If the good Doctor is going to exclude the New Testament in order to establish a "fact", then it is no longer factual and is biased."
She was speaking from the perspective of the time that the story of Job was written, at the time none of the New Testament was read or even begun to be imagined. The whole concept of putting a selection of old writings together into one volume is even more recent so the two are as interdependent as they are internally consistent i.e. Not to any practical degree
@ProcInc My comment still stands, if we are discussing the history of the Devil and are going to cover the Bible, the entire Bible must be referred to. She could have noted at the end of her comment that this changed later in the Bible.
@rlwieneke "She could have noted at the end of her comment that this changed later in the Bible." your comment does not stand because that is mentioned later in the video
buddy there is one whose words rash words are like sword thrusts, but the tongue of the wise brings healing-proverbs 12:18_-___-__ there... is no truth in blaspheming
@martin101jc Well that is obviously quote demonstrably wrong.
You are getting your information form the wrong place. Hence you are wasting everyone's time. The accusation of blasphemy is just a method your religion has of avoiding the uncomfortable truth that a little research disproves your mythology
This is stupid. This is an attempt by Satan to make people think that he is not real and he is not evil. -.-
LilPax16 2 months ago
@LilPax16 Some people seriously think like you do?
ProcInc 2 months ago
@LilPax16 Please don't breed....
TheVoiceofReason17 4 weeks ago
what is the music playing? someone tell meeeeee
ThaKidFrankiee 3 months ago
Hades was not evil nor the underworld bad EXCEPT From the fact it ment death not life
delagrazia 4 months ago
@delagrazia I'm guessing that Christian mythology of Hell coupled with the James Woods depiction of Hades (Disney's Hercules) has this current generation forget that.
Hades was a gloomy, brooding and unlikable jerk in most stories but he wasn't evil. Typhon was evil, Hera was worse than Hades (Well, she was more a woman scorned of which hell hath no fury)
ProcInc 4 months ago
Hades was one of the Olympians?
delagrazia 4 months ago
@delagrazia Well, he didn't live on Olympus so technically not. He originated from Olympus (being Zeus and Poseidon's brother) so yes.
ProcInc 4 months ago
The devil isn't real.
peterlikesthis 4 months ago
6:06 somehow I cant stop my self thinking and wondering did he touched some little boys?
MrUberSpanky 4 months ago
@MrUberSpanky Nah, he seems like one of the good guys. He has the last word in this Documentary and it's brilliant. Unfortunately I couldn't go past the third part. I'm sure the rest is somewhere on Youtube though
ProcInc 4 months ago
Glad this version is up. Someone else tried to upload it, but the sound was SO low I couldn't hear any of it. I'm glad I can HEAR this one
RemCycleDN 4 months ago
great work
benzion888 6 months ago
satan's first appearance was in the book of genesis!!!!!!
xXLLMXx 6 months ago
@xXLLMXx No that was a talking, walking snake. It never says Satan.
Gravija1980 5 months ago
@Gravija1980 The snake is a metaphor for the devil/Satan/Iblis/Lucifer! Satan is not Angel but a demon made of smokeless fire(jinns) this is Satan (the devil)! also the bible contradicts if Angles are created to perfectly obey God n can not disobey ever then Satan was not angel but a creature elevated to the status like the Angels! Satan had no authority or power but what God allowed him! Satan rebel's against the command of God the was banished from heaven n awaits hell on the day of Judgement!
moeazysgc 2 months ago
@moeazysgc "The snake is a metaphor for the devil/Satan/Iblis/Lucifer!"
That wouldn't make any sense since the story attempts to explain why snakes don't have legs. The primitive culture that came with that story tried to explain it that way, we now know that it is simple a result of natural selection favouring the abortion of atrophied limbs in ancient burrowing/swimming lizards.
Either way it is nowhere implied that the snake is the Devil. it would make no sense since snakes were punished
ProcInc 2 months ago
@ProcInc Did not the snake deceive Adam n Eve into eat the forbidden fruit well the Devil/Satan is the one who deceived Adam n Eve still deceives Mankind to this day n until judgement day!!
moeazysgc 2 months ago
@moeazysgc "Did not the snake deceive Adam n Eve into eat the forbidden fruit "
Not according to you. You are saying the devil did and the snake was only a metaphor.
Snakes got punished, not the devil. Unless of course you are saying your god is so stupid that he fell for the trick and punished an innocent species instead.
ProcInc 2 months ago
@ProcInc Omg Are you that ignorant n stupid the snake is the Devil/Satan you dumb ass! And no in my believe Adam n Eve did not get punished or banished from heaven n they repent n were forgiven by God! It was the will of God to sent them to earth to test them n their offspring! God gave us free will(the choice to rebel or to submit to his will)! Satan the devil choose to rebel n is dammed to hell for eternity on the day of Judgement! but Mankind will be judge accordingly on that day!
moeazysgc 2 months ago
@moeazysgc "Omg Are you that ignorant n stupid the snake is the Devil/Satan you dumb ass!"
I get that you are claiming that but for some reason you can't see the several reasons that doesn't make sense.
Answer the most obvious one. If the snake was the devil in disguise then why is it that all species of snakes received the punishment of leglessness and the devil didn't.
Either god was fooled by the devil or it was an actual snake.
Think for a second about these myths
ProcInc 2 months ago
@moeazysgc If you're going to call someone a dumb ass, please use proper spelling and grammar.
haleygoeswhoohoo 1 month ago
@moeazysgc You are a metaphor for an idiot.
Gravija1980 2 months ago
Bullshit, Ozzy was the Prince of Darkness since 1979!
iShadow93 6 months ago
these ppl are fucking idiots jews and christains did not come from this non sense why else do u think both bibles say STAY OUT OF BABYLON THE GREAT AHHHHDERRRRRRRRP!
PaleAngel7779 8 months ago
@PaleAngel7779 "jews and christains did not come from this non sense " not did they evidently get their beliefs from this nonsense but in many ways they managed to make it more nonsensical.
"why else do u think both bibles say STAY OUT OF BABYLON THE GREAT"
What a naive and irrelelent question. First of all there aren't 2 bibles (presumably you mean the Torah and new Testament which is in fact ONE bible together or the multiple versions of the bible which is far more than 2)
ProcInc 8 months ago
@ProcInc uhm ..... what? jew just belive that jesus isent god so..... they dont belive in new testement i have alot of jewish friends
PaleAngel7779 8 months ago
@PaleAngel7779 "i have alot of jewish friends" Then you would know that the Jewish Holy Scripture is not called a "Bible". I even pointed this out in my earlier message. Please read before you respond.
"jew just belive that jesus isent god"
Referring to the Jewish people in the singular "Jew" is derogatory. Again, I doubt you have Jewish friends further. Also Jesus isn't even a god according to proper Christianity. He always describes himself as seperate from and subordinate to Yahweh
ProcInc 8 months ago
@ProcInc the torah yes its diffrent but the same and jesus is god the son then theres god the father and god the holy spirt there all one in trinity >.> so.... ur point? same god diffrent worship imo
PaleAngel7779 8 months ago
@PaleAngel7779 "the torah yes its diffrent but the same" I was the one who explained this to *you*. It isn't called the Bible so that would say "both bibles" is an enormously elementary error.
"and jesus is god the son then theres god the father and god the holy spirt there all one in trinity"
As I pointed out though, this is a non-biblical interpretation. Nowhere in the Bible is Jesus identified as God, especially by himself. The Messiah isn't even meant to *be* God in the first place!
ProcInc 8 months ago
@ProcInc he say that hes the son of man >.> this in it self points out hes god and The Messiah i am the alpha and the omega ding ding ding and i said they where a trinity all in the same and not of the same our minds cant fathom it bro
PaleAngel7779 8 months ago 2
@PaleAngel7779 "he say that hes the son of man >.> this in it self points out hes god"
No, that's your interpretation in no objective sense does "son of man"="god"
"and i said they where a trinity all in the same"
Yes, you said that, that doesn't make it true. Judging by your poor theological knowledge (goverened by eroneous interpretation mainly) it makes the opposite all the more likely.
"our minds cant fathom it bro" yes they can, it is a direct contadiction. A fantasy
ProcInc 8 months ago
"i am the alpha and the omega"
This is only found in the later copies of Revelations (not the earliest). Obviously this event never really happened (or indeed WILL happen) and isn't even scripturally supported, being yet another example of an ad hoc passage (Added after the original).
It is clear that even if Jesus existed he was never recorded as claiming to be a god (Though he appears to be the victim of later charges of being god). Your retorts are not as tight as you seem to think
ProcInc 8 months ago
@PaleAngel7779 Ummm, much of the Tanakh was written while the Jews were in Babylon. Ever hear of the Talmud? Jew were Babylonian. Hell, even Abraham was Babylonian and grew up in the shadow of the temple/palace of one of the "true" gods. You need to do some reading other than the mistranslated Christian Bible. Seriously.
I have much to learn myself. I am trying.
gvman3670 7 months ago
"Evil is real and must be opposed." If not taken out of some sort of context, is the most ignorant statement made by an appointed, supposed, authority figure
illmsg77 8 months ago
God created the devil? Finally he did something cool...
5kier 8 months ago
Jesus
ascorpio07 10 months ago
Evil is the result of what happends when man does not have gods love present in his heart.
Raafje84 10 months ago
@Raafje84 "Evil is the result of what happends when man does not have gods love present in his heart."
Not so, one can be evil and yet be strongly religious, even believing they are acting out of any number of gods' love
People can also be very good and at the same time vehemently antireligious. the only correlation between the two is that for an intrisically good person to do something bad, it takes religion to inspire them to do it.
ProcInc 10 months ago 8
@ProcInc I am aware of this. I do believe that indoctrination and false information fed by people that are so called religious leaders are dangerous.
But we as a western ''civilization'' we are aware now what the difference is between right and wrong and between good and evil.
These christian rules included in the ten commandments should be enough to understand the difference between good and evil. Friendly greetings from Holland
Raafje84 10 months ago
@Raafje84 "These christian rules included in the ten commandments should be enough to understand the difference between good and evil"
-Firstly, the Ten Commandments are originally semitic, not Christian
-Secondly, good and evil isn't detailed in the ten commandments you are thinking of. Simply a set of do's and don'ts, half of which have no moral value whatsoever ("Keeping the sabbath" is hardly evil not to obey)
-Thirdly, *the* ten commandments are even less a moral guide (EX: 34)
ProcInc 10 months ago
@Raafje84 , many ruthless mafiosos go to church and 'worship' God. Think again. A lot.
And what the heck 'gods love' does mean ? I suggest you have a look at arguments by Richard Dawkins
luigiperso 10 months ago
very good documentary, I have learned a lot in a short time.
luigiperso 10 months ago
hell is not just a place but also like planet and hell is the most dirty odors smell death breaths, living in hell is like living inside the devils lung _you breathe their breath you felt dryness in your mouth and you have no strenght. what so scary and suffering about hell is the oral death breath and tormented.
bobby20able 10 months ago
@bobby20able Says who?
ProcInc 10 months ago
this needs to be taught in elementary school
bd1965 11 months ago
Sataniel(Satan's name before being cast down) derives from Sett(cast into the abyss of the desert for his actions) or possibly Seti an Egyptian priest who historically bragged of his cruelty towards the workers between 1300-1200 b.c.e. During this period of time is when Iha(nothern) and Shed(Southern) begin to appear in Egyptian mythology, before being joined with Horus to create the form of Horus the younger in the book of the dead which is the basis of Judaism and thus in turn Christianity.
Eddy666Nax 11 months ago
@Eddy666Nax That's not strictly accurate
ProcInc 11 months ago
@ProcInc true enough there's more to it, and my date's may be off a bit. Just trying to show it goes back farther than this documentary states is all. And history repeats itself, even if there were similar figures before Yeshu, I believe there were, doesn't mean Yeshu wasn't real. In fact I could see the majority of them being the same spirit performing the same actions, to further the creator's design.
Eddy666Nax 11 months ago
@Eddy666Nax Extrapolating similar themes in mythology into the same origin is a tentative study at best.
There are many aspects of Judeo-Christian mythology that can certainly be linked to earlier religions but more generalised themes such as a personification of evil can be reasonably assumed to be independently derived.
ProcInc 11 months ago
@ProcInc Go actually study mythology and theology before you correct me child because you are no where near right. There is no question that Judeo-Christian beliefs primarily derived from Egypt, they have it in the old and new testament. Set(Upper Egypt) did not start out as the personification of evil in Egyptian mythology in fact he originally held the same role as Horus(Lower Egypt) under a different pantheon. Apep the giant serpent trying to eat the sun was evil/destruction incarnate.
Eddy666Nax 11 months ago
Set only became "evil" as a means for Lower Egypt to justify the subjugation of Upper Egypt. No more no less. I was merely explaining further the origin of the character and name.
Eddy666Nax 11 months ago
@Eddy666Nax There is no definite link established as of yet is all I am saying. There may be some good parallels (albeit some being exaggerated) but ever since things like that "Zeitgeist" there needs to be caution excercised in announcing that one religion begat the other or that correlation equal causation at all.
Also, I did not refer to Set as the personification of evil, rather the personification of evil was a separate example
ProcInc 11 months ago
@ProcInc Established no, there yep. it just takes a lot of space in the head to figure it out, only reason I have a clue is as one might guess from my attitude towards other people, is people don't really like me. so far too much time to think about such things and little to distract me from my own mind's constant barrage of questions. Just sought the answers basically because I wanted to end the world's fighting but perhaps my reason, merely an attempt to show the world what they cast off.
Eddy666Nax 11 months ago
"Established no, there yep."
You don't see anything wrong at all with that statement? Basically you are saying there is no indication at all (hence the term "established") but feel justified and confident in asserting it anyway.
Babylonian, Sumerian and a few other Middle Eastern religions are direct semitic ancestors to Judaism but Egyptian mythology is too far removed for a causal link.
It distracts also from the fact that Judeo-Christianity needn't be unoriginal to be demonstrably false
ProcInc 11 months ago
@ProcInc Actually I'm saying my studies have made me privy to things that would drive most insane, first time damn near did. But more importantly I'm saying that just because it's not excepted as absolute fact yet, doesn't mean the evidence is non existent. And you defeat yourself there, the whole Mesopotamian region cross influenced they all have similar themes, but Moses leading the Israelites out of Egypt was a central part of both old and new testament, so yeah like I said in the book.
Eddy666Nax 11 months ago
@Eddy666Nax "Actually I'm saying my studies have made me privy to things that would drive most insane, first time damn near did."
That's a hell of a statement to make. Any way you can back that up?
"But more importantly I'm saying that just because it's not excepted as absolute fact yet, doesn't mean the evidence is non existent."
There are different reasons it's nonexistent.
the Exodus is not supportive of your argument, in fact it accentuates the difference
ProcInc 11 months ago
@ProcInc Funny you do know the Charlton Heston movie wasn't Biblicaly accurate right? Moses(cough* Iha *cough) the guy who wrote the book was raised by Egyptians, safe to say he knew Egyptian mythology. And let's just say the world's modern sense of this deceptive reality is going to get turned on it's ear before long. But preaching what I've learned that almost made me lose my mind and causing others to suffer to prove a point? Not happening, people aren't ready.
Eddy666Nax 11 months ago
"the guy who wrote the book was raised by Egyptians"
It is firmly established that Moses was not a historical figure which goes without saying he did not write the pentateuch.
You are trying to argue that what you are saying must be true because it nearly drove you insane, I just find that sad. If what you were arguing were true it would have no bearing on any worldview of mine at all and I don't believe that anything would shake the fundations of my sanity if it turned out to be true
ProcInc 10 months ago
@ProcInc nothing 5,000 years ago can be verified to an extreme degree and just because the name Moses is the one I brought up doesn't mean he was the basis for himself. the name Moses is only used after he allegedly came down from Mt Sinai anyway, the earliest versions of the old testament used a number of different names before taking the name Moses, which is possibly a reference to RaMoses. Not at all saying that facing and defeating the demons that cause such plagues is my proof.
Eddy666Nax 10 months ago
@Eddy666Nax "nothing 5,000 years ago can be verified to an extreme degree"
They can however be verified to a sufficient degree. We have enough information to verify that the Pentateuch was a composition of writings from different nations of different religions at different times and did not have a single author or even editor.
That is also a cogent explanation for the confusion with the names.
ProcInc 10 months ago
@ProcInc btw "Pentateuch" being the Greek name for the Torah you somewhat back much of my perspective if you know it or not.
Eddy666Nax 10 months ago
@Eddy666Nax "btw "Pentateuch" being the Greek name for the Torah you somewhat back much of my perspective if you know it or not."
Howso? Would I have not backed your perspective if I instead referred to it as the Torah?
How can preferring one name over the other be seen to you as evidence?
It is well established that Moses was not a historical figure and did not write the *Torah*
ProcInc 10 months ago
@ProcInc the original Jews were IMO from investigation on the subject displaced Greeks, possibly the result of a tsunami.
Eddy666Nax 10 months ago
@ProcInc and a conclusion one could derive from your apparent misplacement of trust in modern science's absolutism, is that indeed you'd shake like a chihuahua in a blizzard. We are talking here about one small piece of a puzzle made by our creator, which is in some sense the human race as a whole, even if we don't know we did it. But you think in a debate over a name I'd reveal much of anything? Prove you posses the wisdom to handle it and I'll provide a puzzle piece of more value.
Eddy666Nax 10 months ago
@Eddy666Nax "and a conclusion one could derive from your apparent misplacement of trust in modern science's absolutism"
Modern science by definition is a rejection of absolutism.
"We are talking here about one small piece of a puzzle made by our creator"
Our creator? Now this makes sense. You are using the excuse of Christianity being a composite religion in order to support your own composite religion.
What sort of evidence would prove I'm able to handle your silly beliefs?
ProcInc 10 months ago
@ProcInc "Religion" now what have I done to be compared with blasphemers? you judge and assume you know me who's the true fool? Not to mention personal attacks in debate are the sign of a weaker mind. No one can play buffer between god and man, let's just say I'm the type here to balance the scales, wouldn't start a religion I don't believe in them.
Eddy666Nax 10 months ago
@Eddy666Nax ""Religion" now what have I done to be compared with blasphemers?"
You believe in a specific supernatural narrative, in this case with a "creator". That, provided you have a belief in a preservation of self after death constitutes religion The concept of blasphemy is a religious one.
"you judge and assume you know me who's the true fool?"
You seem to believe that you are the only person who has ever thought the way you do.
ProcInc 10 months ago
@Eddy666Nax "Not to mention personal attacks in debate are the sign of a weaker mind."
Well first it i strange you refer to this format as a "debate" Secondly I would be interested to see what you identify as a personal attack.
"No one can play buffer between god and man"
So you are trying to claim direct contact? Also, very few religions have a "buffer". Christianity for instance has direct prayer.
ProcInc 10 months ago
@ProcInc and priests and a church, I'm flat out saying people need to stop looking for such answers from others, humans are flawed and even one seeking do well teaching such things can just as easily do harm. People want answers from god go through the theology and mythology of the world and weigh it out and learn to find the real rather than the self perceived and ask Ohm questions. only piece no ones likely to choke on, it was hidden in the open, as well as mouths of minds seeking answers
Eddy666Nax 10 months ago
@Eddy666Nax "and priests and a church" Not all sects do. The point is there is nothing unique in your belief system that distinguishes it from religion.
"I'm flat out saying people need to stop looking for such answers from others, humans are flawed "
There is no logic in believing you are a self-sufficient source superior to any other person in this regard. Answers should be based on evidence, not authority, no matter how much authority you wish to grant yourself
ProcInc 10 months ago
@ProcInc and forums are where debate originated from, two opposing sides in verbal confrontation or in this case corresponding confrontation is debate.
Eddy666Nax 10 months ago
@Eddy666Nax "and forums are where debate originated from, two opposing sides in verbal confrontation or in this case corresponding confrontation is debate."
Perhaps colloquially but your position is not respectable enough for opposition of it to be classed as a formal debate.
ProcInc 10 months ago
@ProcInc Perhaps I've experienced contact perhaps not it is an extremely internal experience won't know until others are brave enough to listen rather than wait for a chance to speak. and a clarification on a subject of debate regarding Muhammad from my experience it's not a seizure. when the third eye is open and sees beyond the illusions it's intoxicating and can lead down unfortunate paths. but not like humanity birthed it's "demons/viruses" into the world through ill will or anything.
Eddy666Nax 10 months ago
@Eddy666Nax "Perhaps I've experienced contact perhaps not"
There's no mystery about it.
I thought you were misguided about history but it turns out your something far more troubled.
ProcInc 10 months ago
@ProcInc ah so you were in my head and experienced it? didn't think so. go bloody find the creator yourself and find out, or you like so many others ready to sit back and get out shown by a 26 year old stoner drop out. no savior you want saved you need to put in the effort. As was stated I nearly lost my mind, breaking the walls of deception is no big deal. the labyrinth is ours to get out of by whatever means, pulling the floor out though leaves no where to stand. so insult me, I DON'T CARE.
Eddy666Nax 10 months ago
@Eddy666Nax "ah so you were in my head and experienced it?"
No, I've simply experienced your delusions before, there are entire magazines dedicated to your kind of thinking. There was even that Zeitgeist movie with much the same argumentation as you and the factual errors contained well known.
So first you had a creator, now a savior and you deny religiosity? you see the issue here?
ProcInc 10 months ago
@ProcInc I berate Zeitgeister's for being ideological fools so comparison to them is a bit off. not just now that I deny religion it's been since childhood. experienced the same things my ass, you presume too much there. been basically tripping DMT since I was 5 from a head injury, was molested before that, parents divorced, abusive alchy stepdad, another severe h.i. at 14 and again at 20, spent the last 5 & 1/2 years healing my body, mind, and spirit. you know nothing about me
Eddy666Nax 10 months ago
@ProcInc oh and was correcting my teachers as early as 10 and at 12 a teacher acknowledged that I taught him something so I suggest maybe toning down. if you actually know you're stuff after all, even if yeshu came to the flesh only of the mind, Alexander the Great conquered the known world in his time. Don't let the Diogenes facade I bare now be all you see or you'll go blind if you glimpse reality.
Eddy666Nax 10 months ago
@ProcInc lol a religious nut can't be as much fun to argue with XD not scarred are you? cause that wasn't a threat I just know, no one likes eating crow and felt the info a fair head's up.
Eddy666Nax 10 months ago
@Eddy666Nax I'm getting nothing out of "arguing" with you. I think you have a serious case of narcissistic personality disorder and some more serious mental issues. Its best I disassociate myself with you entire and request you go and bother somebody else with your nuttery
ProcInc 10 months ago
@ProcInc lmao don't you have to have an ego to be a narcissist? Even if I turn out to be the Anti-Christ or Savior I'm nothing special and never claimed to be. And good to see judge not lest ye be judged carries in peoples heads, quite an opinion off like zero info. I don't have mental problems aside from society's obsession with labeling everyone and head injuries to work through. Not my fault western civ doesn't count the 3rd gender. just get 2 people to argue with when it's me.
Eddy666Nax 10 months ago
@ProcInc besides ancient Egypt is the home of the oldest recorded attempt to implement monotheism, it was centered around a sun god called Aten between 1400-1300 BC. So yeah likely source of their attempt to do the same. You're ignoring history makes you the one who's ignorant in this instance not I.
Eddy666Nax 10 months ago
just make sure use all do more good than bad in life and everybody will be ok
gypsyreff 1 year ago
Illuminati own the media and the press and the education system. Let's hear a word from one of our most beloved presidents. Listen to his speech on the secret societies. God bless you John f Kennedy, may jesus keep your soul resting peacefully til the day we are resurrected and delivered from this earth whom the devil has successfully deceived and blinded.
Redrum059 1 year ago
@Redrum059 "his speech on the secret societies." This was made 50 years ago and yet nothing has changed.
What evidence do you have that the illuminato exist let alone own the media? Besides, different media outlets vary in the subjctive element making it clear that no one figurehead is in control. There is also a balance of positive coverage of catholicism in the media as well, not to be expected if an extinct anticatholic group was in charge.
ProcInc 1 year ago
You counter my least important points. I have yet to receive an explanation of the eye of Horus/shiva/Lucifer/GOD known as the all seeing eye, also known as "the great seal" even luciferians such as aliestar crowly use such symbols. Symbolism it's everywhere. But ofcaurse u are mustlikely goingto reply on my symbolism then the meaning of the all seeing eye. There's even talk of charls darwens father and grand father being masons.
Redrum059 1 year ago
@Redrum059 "known as the all seeing eye, also known as "the great seal". It is actually known officially as either, it is a symbol known as the "eye of providence" and is an anthropomorphic symbol of providence looking upon all people.
what exactly is profound about the use of symbolism?
ProcInc 1 year ago
i have dived deep in the into the relm of evolution, maybe you should do some deep research on the illuminati.
i feel like you have barely looked into the topic of secret societies
Redrum059 1 year ago
NOVUS ORDO SOCLORUM "new world order" it is found on the dallor bill, ghw bush gave a whole speach on it, where the world will be under the one rule of law. the all seeing eye was planted on the dollar not too long ago, please explain what it means and why it is found in many churches, religions, music videos, movies, arts,.yes men are capable of taking over the world, it takes well planned out steps and much time such as hundreds of years.
Redrum059 1 year ago
@Redrum059 "NOVUS ORDO SOCLORUM "new world order" it is found on the dallor bill"
novus ordo soclorum translates to "new order of the ages" and signified the beginning of the new American government (as proposed by Charles Thompson). Minimal research could have informed you of this yet you accuse me f not engaging in enough research.
Your grasp of most subjects appears to be entirely imagined, it only natural the conclusions you inevitably draw form them are misinformed
ProcInc 1 year ago
THe devils greatest trick was making world think he didnt exist. you my friend have been tricked.
Redrum059 1 year ago
do you honestly believe that you ( a common 22year old youtuber) are smarter then the men who began many societies including secret ones, is that what you are saying, that any person that believes in evolution is smarter than any one who believes in GOD"becuase it seems like it with your (hypocracy in christians video) i saw. cuz the most powerful men in the world have religious aoths. have you ever gone to court and been forced to place your hand on a bible?
Redrum059 1 year ago
@Redrum059 "do you honestly believe that you ( a common 22year old youtuber) are smarter then the men who began many societies including secret ones"
What a strange question, especially since you are the one claiming to be smarter than them since you claim to have 'pu tthe pieces together' and exposed their subversion. If that were in any way true rather than laughable it would mean the conspirators are so incompetent then anybody can work them out
ProcInc 1 year ago
@Redrum059 "believes in evolution is smarter than any one who believes in GOD"
so long as they have a clear understanding of what evolution is they are certainly more correct. However the majority of people who accept evolutionary theory believe in a god anyway.
ProcInc 1 year ago
everything around us is refernce to god. when were you born, and dont say 1988 cuz 1988 "ad" is refernce in years since the death and resurection of Jesus Christ, so i guess you better come up with a date more like "year 6,226,201,988" are you getting my point? "the new world order", the bio-chip that can fit inside of your hand, aliens, it has all been metaphoracly prophecised in the bible. stop living in denyal, fallenangels run shit. time to wake up.
Redrum059 1 year ago
@Redrum059 "when were you born, and dont say 1988 cuz 1988 "ad" is refernce in years since the death and resurection of Jesus Christ"
By that logic you can't say what day of the week it is because they are all named after Norse Gods.
So your point is moot. All of your silly ravings about aliens and "biochips" were never prophesised not even implicitly (revelations was meant to be a metaphor for then-current events around the Roman Empire anyway).
ProcInc 1 year ago
Come on get your facts straight.
knightschemdry 1 year ago
Satan is evil, he was cast out of heaven and most religious books including christian and the Muslim book. This bullshit video lost it's credibility due to it's checkerboard pattern floor in the beginning which is a masonic symbol. Masons and illuminati due these things to confuse watchers to aid Satan. Yes satan "was" an angel in heaven but fell due to his pride. He is evil
Redrum059 1 year ago
@Redrum059 Satan isn't evil, he's fictional. The backstory you give contradicts backstores others have given.
A checkerboard pattern is a common floor pattern, most people's bathrooms have it. Masons don't do anything, they're just a club for egotists who like wearing aprons they have neither the resources nor ability to be active conspirators
ProcInc 1 year ago
@ProcInc "masons are just a club of egotist who like wearing aprons" cant argue with that lol, but you cant deny that many of the US founding fathers including washington and majority of our presidents were free masons. there are masons in the white house,he heads of congress and many top judges are freemason, so you cant deny that they have a say in how we live in society. you may not believe in the devil but the ppl who run shit in the world do.
Redrum059 1 year ago
@ProcInc you may believe in evolution and dont believe in the supernatural, and i completely respect that and have no problem with it. but dont you find it funny that the ppl who contral our education and force darwens theory down our throughts believe in god and the devil themselves.
Redrum059 1 year ago
@Redrum059 I don't find that funny because it isn't true. Firstly nobody is forcing any scientific theory down anybody's throat. Scientific curricula is determined by whichever science can be verified and of course is useful. From the '20s-'60s in the United States there was a powerful lobby that succeeded in censoring evolutionary theory form the classroom but it was action of the citizenry and scientists who ended this tarnish on American Education.
ProcInc 1 year ago
@ProcInc so you dont believe that almost all of our presidents were freemasons. thats common knowledge
so if you dont believe it then i guess its pointless talking to you. secrete societies run shit, mainly masons and illuminati, the signs are everywhere, even jfk gave a whole public speach on it warning us. open your eyes. its even on the dollar bill "in god we trust" and the "all seeing eye" only question is who is this god they are refering to. its time for u to do your research.
Redrum059 1 year ago
@Redrum059 "only question is who is this god they are refering to"
Considering the group that lobbied for that to replace the original motto (E Pluribus Unum) was Catholic it would have to be the Catholic god.
Do you have any idea how whacko jacko these conspiracy theory rants are?
ProcInc 1 year ago
@Redrum059 "so you dont believe that almost all of our presidents were freemasons. thats common knowledge"
most were, some aren't. Most were boy scouts too, its of no value aside from a bit of trivia. I never denied that some presidents were freemasons.
What sort of a secret society leaves signs everywhere? If they are so incompetent they cant cover up their on conspiracy then there is nothing to be concerned about.
Also you start off saying masons then you move to 'fallen angels'...?
ProcInc 1 year ago
@ProcInc i cant deny that you know your stuff, and you're also good at countering many of my points i throw out. But i honestly think that you are realy realy underestimating the powers of these secret societies. yes they leave their marks everywhere but it wasnt until the spark of the internet that people started putting the peices of the puzzle together and showing the whole world the big picture. but even then ppl are quick to ignore such hints. the majority of ppl still are ignorant to this.
Redrum059 1 year ago
@Redrum059 "but it wasnt until the spark of the internet that people started putting the peices of the puzzle together and showing the whole world the big picture."
No its just that before the internet it wasn't as easy for people to make things up out of nothing and reach a wide audience with them. Whacked out conspiracy theories have always been around ( the magazines "Red Dawn" and "Uncensored"). There is nothing to underestimate
ProcInc 1 year ago
@ProcInc you know what, you actually underastimate man. you fail to relize that there are men smart enough are capable of such great measures and actions that can shake the foundations of our world,that men are able to come together and plot on how to rull the world."in god we trust" found on the dollar bill and "under GOD" in the pledge of alliegance, the men who create the foundations of the governments around the world believe in god.
Redrum059 1 year ago
@Redrum059 "men are able to come together and plot on how to rull the world."
Even if a enormous group was secretly ploting there is no realistic scenario in which they can stage a successful campaign to carry out the agenda regardless of the resources they had at their disposal. This can't be an underestimation of man either since it would be man that would resist such as campaign anyway.
The founders of USA did not intend for "Under God" to be in the pledge "or in god we trust" (cont.)
ProcInc 1 year ago
(cont.) both were aded in the 1950s by a catholic lobby group who took advantage of the anti-communist sentiment prevalent at the time and conflated atheism with communism (therefore de-secularising the United States, one of the most constitutionally secular states in existence). The orignal motto was "E Pluribus Unum" (from many, one) which actually meant something to all citizens and not just monotheists
ProcInc 1 year ago
im glad they arent religious folk talking about this stuff, puts things in perspective.... GOD BLESS SATAN
Metlahaed 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
FUCK ALL WHO DONT BLIEVE IN GOD!!!!!!
Allstarcliqtv 1 year ago
anyone who tells God to go screw himself gets my respect. The almighty is just too twisted and takes the piss.
shinjide213 1 year ago
ahhhh whatever. The whole God and satan things is all manmade bullshit in my opininon. Calm down believer in God and Satan. Let's be frank, would you bow down to someone inferior to you when you have fully devoted yourself to your master. Then he tells you to serve some inferior twit. no way. chill out.
shinjide213 1 year ago 2
@shinjide213 some cultures like in bali - have an evil and good entity intertwined....
BOGZASV8MA 1 year ago
@shinjide213 Have fun in hell. :)
RomanJulliEmperor243 7 months ago
@RomanJulliEmperor243 Do you understand that you believe this person will be tortured forever and express it with a lighthearted comment and a smile?
That goes to show how warped and evil the minds of perfectly normal people can become under the influence of religion without them even realising. If hell to you is a genuine belief, don't threaten people with it with a smile on your face! Psychopathy is defined by a lack of empathy and you have demonstrated that in spades with a simple remark
ProcInc 7 months ago
@ProcInc Have fun in hell. :P
RomanJulliEmperor243 7 months ago
@RomanJulliEmperor243 Ironically the same could be said of you now. To threaten another with Hell, especially in the callous way that you do makes yourself worthy of hell according to your own religion. If a Hell exists to do pieces of scum like you justice then it's almost worth it.
I guess you are stuck with the same risk as the atheists. Eternal punishment and torture for being the crappy human being you are (if you're right) or freefall through nothingness for eternty
Enjoy.
ProcInc 7 months ago
@ProcInc Have fun in hell. ;D "Well you are one dont make excuses."
RomanJulliEmperor243 7 months ago
@ProcInc Who cares what you think why, because Jesus, Yahshua said that there was hell and there is.NOW if you reject the scriptures then you might as well die and find out for yourself IF YOU DIDT HAVE A GOD AND ONLY FATHER YOU ARE A DAM ALIEN OK? DOnt talk shit here most of us are loyal to the father and if you interfere you will be hit by the wrath of god, AND NO I DONT FOLLOW RELIGION ONLY FAITH OK?
RomanJulliEmperor243 7 months ago
@RomanJulliEmperor243 Aww, looks like I touched a nerve. I guess the logical conclusion of the glee you derive from others being tortured makes you realise that you would be joining them after all.
"DOnt talk shit here most of us are loyal to the father and if you interfere you will be hit by the wrath of god"
haha but you feel that it is perfectly reasonable for you to talk shit without rebuke? I guess the Golden rule is not morality you accept either.
I guess I'll see you in hell
ProcInc 7 months ago
@ProcInc Yea you wish but most people here knows your going there for sure. :)
RomanJulliEmperor243 7 months ago
It is only by your own standards that I am certain your chances of going are as good as mine (if not better since more religions condemn your sort than simple 'apostates' like me) and what base standards of humanity they are.
I differ in that I can not offer you survival of your own death with eternal paradise or a bevy of virgins, nor can I threaten you (especially with the glee you have) with eternal torture if you do not listen to crackpot beliefs.
(cont)
ProcInc 7 months ago
(cont)Instead rather than threats or promises, neither of which I can keep I can only offer the truth.
But that is far more than you can offer. Merely threats and a display in doing so of how your religion has turned you into a person bad enough to join those whom you condemn in the punishment you assign to them. A truly atrocious and unjust punishment you condemn them to with a smile.
That is why if there were a hell if would be bursting with the seams with those like you. That must scare you
ProcInc 7 months ago
@ProcInc Ok can you stop being a smartass cuz whatever you say is false imean "Everything". now stop commenting because even before you started you had lost already nerdy milenium guy.
RomanJulliEmperor243 7 months ago
@ProcInc Besides your brainwash "works" wont work with us now stop trying to brainwash other people that are blinded by your thoughts now stop bullshiting and take my word "Your not going to right way" i dont care if your 24 and are Athiest or watever you are i dont care but dont share your knowledge now stop being a smartass and just be quite "Everyone has there own beliefs if they dont believe in the one and truly", Remmeber i dont care what you think just stop trying to tell oter people.
RomanJulliEmperor243 7 months ago
@RomanJulliEmperor243 I find it amusing that you came here trying to provoke and it turns out you were the one who ended up shaken up.
Perhaps next time you will follow the oft told advice "Judge not, lest ye be judged".
Not only were you schooled on morality and humility (by an Atheist no less :p). But you then flat out admitted you don't want to learn ("dont share your knowledge")!
You need to take a long hard look at the mirror and ask if your beliefs make you a better person...
ProcInc 7 months ago
@ProcInc No its jsut telling you whats your mistakes...
RomanJulliEmperor243 7 months ago
@RomanJulliEmperor243 Oh really? and pray tell where in any previoud message you have pointed out and corrected a mistake.
Because the only messages I have received is the one that condemned you to apparently join me in hell and the one when you started to get angry and upset when I pointed out how your own theology rebukes and then refuse to learn anything.
What exactly did you hope to accomplish from your first message anyway?
ProcInc 7 months ago
@RomanJulliEmperor243 just*
RomanJulliEmperor243 7 months ago
other*
RomanJulliEmperor243 7 months ago
@normansmother1 and I said hahahahahahah
shinjide213 1 year ago
@normansmother1 hahahahahah
shinjide213 1 year ago
Satan gets my respect. He gave God the middle finger. God is twisted entity.
'Suffer little children to come unto me' - more like let priests molest little children.
'when someone slaps you, show the other cheek' for him to slap' - more like saying if you can't beat us, join us. African slavery, The Pilgrims, Spanish inquisition.
Feel sorry for those who suffered hoping they will seek paradise.
shinjide213 1 year ago
@shinjide213 Well, remember to take into account those particular elements of Satan were mainly derived from works such as "Paradise Lost" and not so much Christian mythology.
The Devil is a fictional character who was never definitively fleshed out. It could be anything from an omnimalevolent force to a valient antihero
ProcInc 1 year ago
LORD LORD LORD
stefolieokc11 1 year ago
@stefolieokc11 What were you hoping that would acheive?
ProcInc 1 year ago
@stefolieokc11 . You called?
baoluo1 1 year ago
were can i get a picture of 4:38
MrHeadlessman 1 year ago
wow thanks for posting.btw you were a priest?how did you come over or get over the fear of hel?
witchcerridwen 1 year ago
@witchcerridwen No, I wasn't a priest (The earlier message of mine referred the those in the video). I never had a fear of Hell because I understood the mythology before anyone attempted to expose it to me as a legitimate threat
ProcInc 1 year ago 2
@qix77 Haha did you think I was talking about myself?
I was of course referring to the Right Reverend Tom Wright, featured in the video I am now doubting you even watched
ProcInc 1 year ago
@qix77 You are asking a theologian, historian priest and bishop to read their bible?
Quite a bit of theological hubris for an internet random don't you think?
ProcInc 1 year ago
Devil aint real. You are forget the story make yours. Peace.
EvilsOpposite 1 year ago
i hate satan
jose520089 1 year ago
@jose520089
Then you can take confort in the fact of the character's nonexistence
ProcInc 1 year ago
@jose520089
dumbass
markmccool 1 year ago
@jose520089 Me too Satan is a bastard!
AAAndrade24 1 year ago
@AAAndrade24
A fictional bastard
ProcInc 1 year ago
The idiots doing this video don't know what they are talking about. They totally skipped Revelation 12:
7: And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8: And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9: And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
rlwieneke 1 year ago
Well far be from me to hold the testimony of bishops, reverends and theologians above an internet random but exactly what there is relevent?
Unless you believe 12:9 states the snake in genesis was satan which it has no explicit reference. It would make the whole "how the snake lost its legs" story make no sense whatsoever. And that's saying something for a story that already has brainmaking fruit, a clay man and a rib woman
and you think the ones who don't that literally are idiots lol
ProcInc 1 year ago
@ProcInc "exactly what there is relevent?" At 2:28 Dr. Helen Bond says: There's no kind of Prince of Darkness, somebody who's standing opposite to God. Throughout most of the text, there's no concept of an Evil force."
I only used one example, there are many scriptures stating Satan, the Devil, the Dragon: tempts people into sin, fights against God, etc.
rlwieneke 1 year ago
@rlwieneke Obviously you weren't very interested in paying attention since Dr Bind was referring to the Old Testament. Specifically the book of Job.
The acid-trip scrawlings of revelations (which most canon councils considereddiscarded as the ravings of a madman) is at best a retcon.
Your attempts at debunking are at best deceptive
ProcInc 1 year ago
But anyway that isn't the fundamental point to carry across anyway. The point is that there is such thing as a devil. And no rational argument can contest this
ProcInc 1 year ago
@ProcInc If the good Doctor is going to exclude the New Testament in order to establish a "fact", then it is no longer factual and is biased. The Old and New Testaments are bound together, you can not accept one and act as if the other didn't happen. As far as the "acid-trip scrawlings of revelations", If that is indeed how it happened, you are just not able to grasp what is not in this physical realm.
rlwieneke 1 year ago
Why are you trying so hard to purposefully misunderstand? The video itself is called "HISTORY of the Devil" meaning they are exploring the concept of the character chronologically throughout semitic mythology.
In the Old Testament there is no idea of the "anti-god" character but when Zoroastrian philosophy are assimilated into Jewish culture this changes. your "rules" regarding accepting the NT and OT are entirely arbitrary. Besides we know for fact that in a literal sense neither happened
ProcInc 1 year ago
@ProcInc I understand what they are doing. Establishing what the Devil is in order of how he is presented. I don't agree with the influence a statement like that has on viewers knowing what the Devil is revealed to be later.
rlwieneke 1 year ago
@rlwieneke One of the basic points you still insist on missing is that what the character is "revealed to be" is a direct contradiction to what it was. It completely messes up the chronology and role of the characters.
And what's more we know WHY there is a change in the chracter roles. Because the scriptural change in Satan's character corresponds with Persian influence on Judeo-christian Mythology.
ProcInc 1 year ago
"If the good Doctor is going to exclude the New Testament in order to establish a "fact", then it is no longer factual and is biased."
She was speaking from the perspective of the time that the story of Job was written, at the time none of the New Testament was read or even begun to be imagined. The whole concept of putting a selection of old writings together into one volume is even more recent so the two are as interdependent as they are internally consistent i.e. Not to any practical degree
ProcInc 1 year ago
@ProcInc My comment still stands, if we are discussing the history of the Devil and are going to cover the Bible, the entire Bible must be referred to. She could have noted at the end of her comment that this changed later in the Bible.
rlwieneke 1 year ago
@rlwieneke "She could have noted at the end of her comment that this changed later in the Bible." your comment does not stand because that is mentioned later in the video
ProcInc 1 year ago
Specifically around 1:30 into part two
ProcInc 1 year ago
buddy there is one whose words rash words are like sword thrusts, but the tongue of the wise brings healing-proverbs 12:18_-___-__ there... is no truth in blaspheming
martin101jc 1 year ago
@martin101jc Well that is obviously quote demonstrably wrong.
You are getting your information form the wrong place. Hence you are wasting everyone's time. The accusation of blasphemy is just a method your religion has of avoiding the uncomfortable truth that a little research disproves your mythology
ProcInc 1 year ago
blaspheme
martin101jc 1 year ago
"All great truths begin as blasphemies"-Oscar Wilde
ProcInc 1 year ago
first song?
coolskaterlikeice 1 year ago