I've been really enjoying your videos over the past few days. I'm curious as to what your thoughts are on matters of judicial accountability. Thought it might be a good idea for a video.
i just listened to this guy while playing a game online. i didnt expect him to be black. i didnt think conservative blacks existed. have a tough time calling him a right wing fascists.... but im more in the middle of this right left nonesense
You're right. Liberals are not smart when compared to Einstien, Stephen Hawking etc. But we liberals are very smart when compared to the typical knuckle dragging conservatives.
Ya know, I just watched a video from a news story where a Wendy's employee was literally beat down inside the store she worked in by a mob of teenage girls.
I have a simple question, if our society as a whole says it's perfectly OK for a mother to voluntarily kill her unborn fetus, then why can't I go into a Wendy's a beat down another human?
The city of NY has actually aborted more minority children that it birthed.
If I were a minority I would start asking some real deep questions.
You have to research this guys life to see exactly who he is, and who he is trying to get a pat on the head from. If you go to this country's dark days, Zo would be the one saying, "They're planning on escaping tonight."
@rashadkijani Where has Zo called Blacks traitors? I didn't see that. Misguided maybe, but not race traitors. On the Dem plantation? Yes, if you don't think for yourselves, then you are on a plantation.
@eleuthromania That actually depends. There is Post-natal stem cells, adult stem cells but the one everyone seems to want to fund are pre-natal stem cells. Which are unborn children and harvested through abortion. The first is the cheapest, just scrape the after birth, the second the most promising, the third the most evil.
@nivarion I called superman and he said : “Is it more unethical for a woman to donate unused embryos that will never become human beings, or to let them be tossed away as so much garbage when they could help save thousands of lives.”
@eleuthromania Interesting, you know superman? Any clue where he was nine years ago when some terrorists themselves some planes?
As smug as you may feel right now, I would argue that it is far more ethical to be careful when you have sex, as well as with whom, and to practice preventive measures than to murder a potential human being for simply existing.
As I pointed out, there are other cheaper and morally superior ways to research stem cells. As well as more effective.
@nivarion Smug, moi? I was quoting Christopher Reeves by the way. To 'murder a potential human being', as you put it, is impossible. Look in the dictionary: a murder is committed against a living person. And it would obviously not be 'for simply existing', but to help potentially hundreds of thousands of people to live their lives, to alleviate and prevent suffering and death. Who could be against that?
@eleuthromania And here you are, missing the point. "but to help potentially hundreds of thousands of people to live their lives"
As I said, there are two other ways to research stem cells, both of which have no moral questions in the harvesting. One of which is just as effective, and free to harvest (no one saves the after birth) and the other is more effective and almost as cheap.
As I said, I'm not against preemptive birth control, just reactive, which is murder.
Dont you hate when we make sense and you cant win. Finally someone who looks at it from the true perspective. People watched this so why dont people watch Nancy Pelosi and the Fannie Mae Freddie Mac crisis. This is real yet you wont listen!!!
All this guy needs is a jockey's uniform and a lantern and he be equipped with all he needs to be a convincing lawn jockey. When conservatism stop being his cash cow, he can start a career standing in peoples front yards.
@aklugh All you need is an AK-47 and an excuse to kill anyone that doesn't want their future and their children's to be raped by politicians that tax them out of their own success. He can continue his career in my front yard, if he so feels the need, but I think that he is doing quite well without a bullhorn and grill so there's no need to offer my front yard you commie bastard.
@rashadkijani Stating that if you don't believe what they believe then you are a traitor to your racial group or refer to the person as an "Uncle Tom", "Oreo" or otherwise.
@Aegius Well if caling some one an uncle tom make you a racist then that means republicans black and white are racist. Republicans keep telling blacks that voting democrat is betraying their race and you are being duped becuz the dem party started the KKK. And blacks republicans are constantly like to tell black dem they are the ones living on the democrat plantation. And Ive had plenty of republicans tell me that barack doesnt really count as the first black president.
@rashadkijani Of course Republicans encourage Blacks to vote Republican, but they don't call them sell-outs and traitors for NOT doing so. Repubs correctly point out that Dems started the KKK in RESPONSE to claims that Repubs are like the KKK and the lies of the track record of Dems pushing civil rights when Repubs weren't. Many people state that Barack isn't the first Black president, b/c he is half-White. It's really silly, but he is Non-White.
@Aegius Yes republicans do Zo here has called dem blacks traitors to our race and they accuse us of being on the dem plantation all the time. they constantly accuse jesse jackson and al sharpton of not really caring about other blacks and imply they are selling out the black race for some ulterior motives. They accuse every dem black they dont like of betraying the black race.
@Aegius And I am black and I have personal experiences of whites telling me I dont measure up to their version of black. I have people who have Identified themselves as white on you tube telling me about how obama cant relate to blacks cuz he doesnt really qualify as black. And here is a clip of beck making the same comments. watch?v=weUZsIjC7UU
@Aegius They say barack and michelle really dont count as being black becuz they are educated.Allan keyes even questioned baracks authenticity as being black when barack ran against him. So by your own definition its republicans who are dictating to blacks what to think.
@rashadkijani No one says that Barack & Michelle aren't Black due to education except other Blacks who call them "Uncle Toms" and "Acting White." Conservatives don't do that. Nice try, but there is no validity to that claim. None.
Rachel like other idiotic Black conservatives are tryna cash in their chips for being being Black and against Obama. Timing is everything. Why didn't we see these boot-licking Black conservatives when Bush was in office. why didn't we see them praising Bush? What ever fame these nutjobs got they need to thank Obama
@HeadToucher THey were complaining about the overspending under Bush too. So what? Bush is GONE! & BTW trying to "cash in their chips for being Black and against Obama"? You are a racist for fixating on the race and attempting to denigrate him on that basis.
Has anyone read Zo's book? Is it a good read? I have been watching his videos. He is quite eloquent and cogent in his statements, but he doesn't have the erudition of Thomas Sowell or Dennis Prager.
you still haven't cited any source material to prove your claim the world population is dropping. you made this claim to "prove" married couples should procreate and they are "selfish" if they don't follow YOUR mindset and "values"
Rather little tin god like of you by the way...
site the information please...it's dishonest to make that claim and run away when called out.
@hipstermi I didn't say that the world population was dropping. I said birth rates were dropping and cited a source. I did say that married couples should procreate and ones who don't are selfish. Yes, those are my values and we differ. Okay. I didn't lie that you stated that bearing & raising of kids is irrelevant to marriage. You repeatedly stated as much. This is about IDEALS and VALUES, not the law. Law is based upon values and values is the primary concern, not law.
@hipstermi Whether or not I'm Christian is irrelevant to the discussion. Of course I didn't answer it, b/c you are bigoted piece of crap who will insult anyone galore who differs w/u and will invoke anti-religious hatred in doing so. CHarles Krauthammer is agnostic & opposes same-sex marriage. You'll find some means of insulting him. You are the real bigot here as you have no respect for dissent at all.
"Whether or not I'm Christian is irrelevant to the discussion."
So YOU brow beat all these inane questions want to know personal things...then ask where I get my "values" from. You re now too chicken shit to admit where you get yours. Typical conservative coward.
"you are bigoted piece of crap who"
Odd how conservatives do that- take what they are and try to turn it around. I called YOUR bigotry towards gays...and like Glenn Beck you find a "reverse" card.
I didn't change my original story regarding the issue of weddings in MA at all. I referred to "big government", which is what hipstermi referred to. I commented on a series of items including religious institutions being sued, which has happened as a Yeshiva was sued for not allowing a Lesbian couple in its dormitory & a church was sued for not allowing a couple to use its area for a reception in its pavillion.
@hiptermi The DC case was that she sued, b/c they allowed for same-sex weddings in her church. It had nothing to do w/past donations. Hence we were BOTH wrong on that one. Next on the NJ case proved my point. They weren't allowed to turn the gay couple away. It was about a reception, so I didn't lie there. NPR referred to a series of cases including those two. I didn't lie at all. I got my info from NPR & not from a google website.
@hipstermi Actually you lied, when you stated that I only referred to weddings in MA. I referred to many items regarding larger gov per the expansion of the definition of marriage including forcing the MA adoption agency to move if they wanted to prefer a man:woman couple to a same-sex couple, the "Prince Marrying a Prince" book that parents weren't allowed to object towards, E-Harmony being forced to provide services to gays, & Yeshiva school being sued by a Lesbian couple in MA.
@hipstermi I asked you if you believe that marriage pertained to the bearing & raising of kids. Then you told me that it was irrelevent. THen I pointed that out and said it was okay. We have different values and that is fine. Then you accused me of lying for pointing it out. I also pointed out that you believe that there is no difference between a mom & dad vs 2 women w/o dad or 2 men w/o mom. You again told me that I lied. You are a pathological accuser & that is exasperating.
@hipstermi The bearing and raising of kids is quite relevant to the discussion. This is about ideals and values, not the law. Are we to decide that a couple that can produce kids & provide both a mom & dad to them as equally ideal for society as a couple can do neither? If we decide to have marriage as male:male & female:female equally ideal to male:female, then yes we are. If we decide marriage as male:female only, then the focus is on bearing & raising kids.
"The bearing and raising of kids is quite relevant to the discussion"
As discussed, not every couple can have or chooses to have kids. They count as much in society as parental couples. You can pretend all you want, but those re hte facts.
"Are we to decide that a couple that can produce kids & provide both a mom & dad to them as equally ideal for society as a couple can do neither?"
@hipstermi I didn't favor keeping marriage solely as male:female on the basis of whether churches would be sued. In NH the gov & legislature specifically put in legislation against it. You NEVER mentioned that.
I favored keeping marriage as male:female only, b/c 1)Marriage as male:female leads to family as dad:mom:kids. Kids are entitled to a mother & father as that is how ultimately they enter this world, not just males or just females & in turn deprived of either. cont...
@hipstermi 2)Marriage is supposed to lead to procreation per my values, but not yours. Ever heard the term, "bastard" or "illegitamite"? That referred to a child born outside of marriage & it used to be looked down upon. Sorry, but 2 gay women/men can't do that by themselves. 3)Marriage is to provide a home for kids. If kids are irrelevant to marriage, then it doesn't matter how a home is provided to them. Again my values, not yours. 4)yes I do think that sexuality is more fluid. cont..
@hipstermi My intention was to get my points across and leave it at that. Instead you ad nauseum called me a liar over everything possible especially when I pointed out your statements that indicated your beliefs & values("good parents"... "irrelevant to gay marriage"). Hence we went in circles as I was trying to show what you stated to give me that indication & you just endlessly called me a liar. The truth is that you're stuck in your world where anyone who differs w/u is a liar & scum.
@hipstermi I gave my real points on same-sex marriage. It wasn't about bigotry, but what is best for society and kids. If kids are just as well raised w/2 good men or 2 good women vs a good man & women in your view, so be it. If marriage has nothing to do w/bearing & raising of kids in your view, so be it. If it doesn't matter to you how a kid is raised pertaining to marriage, so be it. If you think that adoption agencies should provide equal access to gay couples vs. str8 couples, so be it.
@hipstermi If you think that kids in schools should be taught that they can pursue the opposite sex as well as the same sex in relationships as equally ideal, so be it.(Reason #5 why I oppose same-sex marriage as I think that pursuing the opposite sex should be the ideal. Str8 couples lead to kids; gay couples don't.) If you think that businesses should be forced to cater equally to str8s & gays, so be it. The point was clarification, not winning debates.
@hipstermi There are many 1000s of gays who oppose same-sex marriage. Are they anti-gay too? I didn't mention the slippery slippery slope argument, but polygamy is being discussed in courts in Canada & why not incest if marriage isn't about kids & this is about equality. Incestual marriage is egalitarian after all.
@hipstermi Those are my points. Call me a liar and everything else: bigot, homophobe, racist, acrophobe-ist, cynaphobe-ist(yeah I hate people who are afraid of dogs of course), sexist, Fascist, pro-Hitler, aquaphobe-ist, Martian and everything else. "Jupter is the largest planet in the solar system." Racist. Bigot. Homophobe. Sexist, Acrophobe-ist.
Correction- I never called you a "bigot, fascist" and several other things you listed. Why did you lie about that?
Your opposition to gay marriage is bigotry. And before you talk "values" and "opinion" all those reasons were cited in those that opposed interracial marriage and even women voting. Those people look fairly bigoted today... so be ready for your kdis and grandkids to be ashamed of you.
You never answered the question- are you a Christian?
@hipstermi "Your opposition to gay marriage is bigotry." No, it isn't and that is a lie. You are a bigot baiter. My opposition to same-sex marriage is that children are entitled to a mom & dad & that the ideal for society should be couples that can bear and raise kids, not couples that can do neither. This has nothing to do w/interracial marriage as 1)there is no difference w/the races, yet enormous differences w/the sexes. cont...
@hipstermi cont... Is having separate bathrooms/locker rooms for men & women the same as having separate bathrooms/locker rooms for Whites & Blacks? No. 2)An interracial, str8 couple can produce kids & provide a mom & dad for them. A gay couple can do neither. 3)My values had nothing to do w/stopping people from voting. That is a despicable lie. 4)Yes, you called me bigot and the other things. You lie again. 5)I'm diestic. 6)You avoided the ? on gays opposed to same-sex marriage.Are they bigots?
"There are many 1000s of gays who oppose same-sex marriage. Are they anti-gay too"
You exagerate the numbers. But as usual you set up a smoke screen to avoid the issue. That's like asking in the 70s "women like Phyllis Schlafly oppose ERA...does that make her anti women?"
Despite your exagerration there are thousands MORE gays who are for it.
Then again those gays opposed to it? Same answer we give to straights- "opposed to gay marriage? Fine, don't get one"
1. you have stated "so you think...." and they weren't what I thought. When you were corrected you just repeated the accusation.
2. you even lied about your own posts. case in point- when you accused the women for suing a church for not being able to have a gay wedding. I corrected you and said she as a believer sued for the church holding weddings (meanign she's one of you). you had removied the original post and LIED about changing your story.
He Aegius, you have repeatedly talked about "values" and then you asked ME where I get mine.
So how come instead of vagely stating your values you haven't provided the SAME information? You didn't even answer if you are a Christian or not. Such info can be important to determine how rational a person you are.
What are you afraid of in answering these questions yourself?
Oh yeah & in MA, A Yeshiva school was sued by a gay couple for not allowing usage of its dormitory, so there is anti-discrimination regarding housing. There is also anti-discrimination regarding schools as in the case of "Prince Marrying a Prince"(Parents protested & were dismissed) and private enterprise regarding E-Harmony. Yes, w/ same-sex marriage there is larger gov. That was the point & that has been proven.
@hipstermi I cited case law already and answer your question on "less government", not solely less government in MA nor solely churches. That is why I referred to E-Harmony, adoption agencies, churches being sued in NH, DC & UK, & kids being taught about a "Prince Marrying a Prince" and parents being dismissed in their complaints about it. That is what happened. Believe what you will. I really don't care.
@hipstermi Is there anything left to cover for this discussion? No. Did I get my points across? Yes. Did you get your points across? Yes. We are done then.
"Is there anything left to cover for this discussion? No. Did I get my points across?"
No you didnt...because you left a lot of questions unanswered, despite badgering me with questions.
You also FAILED to prove the "churches in MA are forced to marry gays". You were wrong, I was right, and your failure to cite an instance of a CHURCH MARRIAGE in MA testifies to that. Citing a dating service and adoption is irrelevant...like all your posts.
For everyone except hipstermi: Is there someone here who does NOT know that Europe's countries' birth rates are well below replacement levels?(except Ireland which is barely below)? Same w/Australia, Japan & Canada? Ave fertility rate in Europe: 1.53. CIA World Fact book. Japan: 1.21 Australia: 1.78. Canada 1.61 Index Mundi. Seriously I really didn't need to research this. It's common knowledge.
hipstermi, our discussion is concluded. Go read the works of Thomas Sowell, a Black person who is lauded on the Right. I only mention his color, b/c if we were such horrible racists, bigots, et al, he wouldn't get the welcome mat. However he gets called an "oreo" and an "uncle tom" just like Lloyd Marcus, Alfonzo Rachel and the rest frequently by Lefties, who obsess on race.
@hipstermi Also E-Harmony was FORCED in MA to cater to both gay couples and str8 couples per case law. Look it up. That is per same-sex marriage. Now as stated, further discussion is pointless as you aren't clear as to what your values are, you keep accusing me of lies for no basis & you're stuck in your world paradigm, that frankly I really don't care about. Yeah, the TEA Party is racist while it has many Black spokespersons. /sarc What a joke!
@hipstermi Typical Left-wing way of dealing with issues. Try to personally destroy your opponent rather than deal with the ideas, arguments or actual issue at hand. Go figure. I see this all the time. Done with radio talk show hosts by you and you didn't deal w/Prager, Levin or Medved as you dealt w/others, b/c you can't dismiss them as you sought to do so w/others. Well, you'll try to destroy them rather than deal w/arguments, et al. Typical Left-wing arrogance.
@hipstermi Typical Left-wing way of dealing with issues. Try to personally destroy your opponent rather than deal with the ideas, arguments or actual issue at hand. Go figure. I see this all the time. Done with radio talk show hosts by you and you didn't deal w/Prager, Levin or Medved as you dealt w/others, b/c you can't dismiss them as you sought to do so w/others. Well, you'll try to destroy them rather than deal w/arguments, et al. Typical Left-wing arrogance.
"Typical Left-wing way of dealing with issues. Try to personally destroy your opponent rather than deal with the ideas, arguments or actual issue at hand"
Which are you referring to? I assume Monckton?
I didn't "destroy" him...I listed a rebuttal that claims ALL his cited scientists/sources disagree with him. How is that NOT relevant to the discussion?
You don't appear to have even read this...or know what Monckton did to that Prof and the college.
@hipstermi Alfonzo Rachel: high school drop out. In fact he got his GED. Mentioning that Beck, Limbaugh, et al aren't "educated". That is an attempt to destroy them. That is how the Left operates. You call your opponents "hate-mongers", racists, Fascists, sexists, homophobes, etc., to dismiss and destroy them rather than deal w/their arguments. Now how are you going to try to destroy Prager, Medved, Hugh Hewitt & Mark Levin? Just something to think about.
"You call your opponents "hate-mongers", racists, Fascists, sexists, homophobes, etc., to dismiss and destroy them rather than deal w/their arguments"
Oh boo hoo...like Zo, Beck, Limbaugh, etc don't "call names". Quit being such a crybaby. Zo himself has accused the Dems of racism.
When someone IS a racist or a bigot, why not call them out on it OR how it effects their politics? Let's ignore these guys...what if you have someone like David Duke taking a stand?
"You call your opponents "hate-mongers", racists, Fascists, sexists, homophobes, etc.,"
I'm curious if you get this upset when Fox news mentions "reverse racism" (the only kind they can ever see apparently cause white guys have it so "tough")
or Beck says the President is a "racist" ...ditto on Limbaugh.
@hipstermi Most of your comments are vacuous insults that really aren't worth responding to and frankly our discussion has been going in circles. One reason for that is that you aren't really clear about what your values are. Do you value the bearing and raising of kids as integral marriage or not? I do and that is partly why I oppose same-sex marriage. Initially you told me that you don't, then you told me that I lied when you said you did. Which is it? cont...
@hipstermi cont... You keep telling me that I'm lying when stating that you consider kids irrelevant to marriage and then tell me that that I lie when you state kids are irrelevent to "gay marriage". You also accuse me of lying when I state that liberty is compromised by having same-sex marriage. Liberty is always compromised by pursuit for equality as equality requires gov coercion, which reduces liberty. Same sex marriage leads to changes across society in many institutions. cont...
@hipstermi cont... That's why in schools books of a prince marrying a prince get taught. That's why adoption agencies can't discriminate a couple that provides both a mom & dad over a couple that provides only the mother figure or father figure. That's why a gay couple can sue a mosque, church, etc & E-Harmony for discrimination in MA. When the court forces such institutions in behavior, then limits liberty. That disturbs you, so rather than face it you call me a liar. cont...
@hipstermi cont... Look, you will have to decide upon your values and not one else. Should kids be relevant to marriage? Should the ideal for society be a couple that produces kids and provide a mom & dad or should that couple be equally ideal to a couple that refuses to have kids or a gay couple that cannot produce kids nor provide a mom & dad? Should religious & other liberty by compromised for equality of making heterosexuality & homosexuality equally ideal in society? That's your decision.
@hiptermi I had thought that you had already decided upon your values, but you haven't and aren't clear on them. I can't debate someone who isn't clear on their values, as it isn't clear what is being debated. Hence this debate cannot continue and is pointless. Re: GOP being racist, et al, the notion is laughable for reasons given and people are sick & tired of the quest for racism by the Left. The Race Card has maxed out. Deal with it.
@hiptermi cont.. Just to make it clear. The other reason that this discussion has been going in circles is that you keep accusing your opponents of being racist, Fascist, et al and I keep throwing it back at you. It's really a waste. People are sick & tired of the race card, so it really is best to drop it. But the Left won't of course. Go figure. As stated, this discussion is concluded, b/c you aren't clear on your values w/yourself & you need to decide that only.
@hipstermi cont... That's why in schools books of a prince marrying a prince get taught. That's why adoption agencies can't discriminate a couple that provides both a mom & dad over a couple that provides only the mother figure or father figure. That's why a gay couple can sue a mosque, church, etc & E-Harmony for discrimination in MA. When the court forces such institutions in behavior, then limits liberty. That disturbs you, so rather than face it you call me a liar. cont...
Other questions/points you failed to answer (despite repeating the same ones over and over)
- you complain when we point out racism, homophobia, bigotry on the right...what are your thoughts on conservatives calling Obama a racist? or Fox news "reverse racism" claims?
- you never cited a law or incident in MA showing a church being forced to marry. You made this dumbass claim...so I asked for you to cite proof.
@hipstermi How are anti-discrimination laws enforced? Answer: Tort law. If a gay couple is turned away from a church for marriage, they can sue in MA, b/c the law doesn't allow for such discrimination. That is a fact. Deal w/it as insults don't help your case.
"you complain when we point out racism, homophobia, bigotry on the right." I complained about crying wolf(i.e. playing the race card, gay card, bigot card, etc.) Why? To shut us up & humiliate us. It's dishonest, despicable bullying.
"gay couple is turned away from a church for marriage, they can sue in MA, b/c the law doesn't allow for such discrimination"
You keep repeating the same things...and yet avoid answering my questions.
How is a church saying "marrying gays is against our religion/no" any different than the other religious reasons the don't marry...I listed examples- orthodox Rabbi won't marry jew to chritian. Catholic Priest can refuse to marry pro choice politicians.
@hipstermi Just insults. Look, I'm not interested in further debate as 1)I got my points across and that really is all that I was interested in. 2)You are a race-baiter and bigot baiter. Serious, calling Dennis Prager a bigot and a homophobe. Pathetic. 3)I don't care if you think that I'm a bigot. You would call me & others on the right bigots for ANYTHING: "Mercury is the closet planet to the sun." Bigot. Racist.
"raising of kids as integral marriage or not? I do and that is partly why I oppose same-sex marriage. Initially you told me that you don't, then you told me that I lied when you said you did."
Hows this for a new rule-
you need to QUOTE ME. Copy and paste. You keep playing these "you said..."
I repeatedly say "that's not what I said"...so quote me. Not what you "think" or "sounds like"...quote me, you liar
@hipstermi "Kids are NOT a requirement of a marriage." I wasn't being deceptive at all. You have different values and that's okay. I believe that kids should be integral w/marriage. You don't. If I believed that, then I would favor same-sex marriage. & yes, it is a value. Frankly the rest of what you stated is vacuous, hate-filled crap, so I'm not going to respond. Seriously go look up birth rates, if you think that they didn't plummet in Europe, Canada or elsewhere.
""Kids are NOT a requirement of a marriage." I wasn't being deceptive at all. You have different values and that's okay."
Yes you were being deceptive. Fox news level deceptive.
You imply if one has a different opinion, they have "no values". You also state that having kids is needed for a marriage...and call others "selfish" Even the minority of rational conservatives wouldn't say that.
@hipstermi Our discussion is concluded. You are a race-baiter and a bigot baiter. Nothing more needs to be said. I don't care if you called me a liar as I didn't lie about anything anywhere, nor did I change my story. Go ahead call me a racist and bigot. Here let me help you: "Pluto has been demoted to Khyber Belt Object from planet." Racist. Bigot. "Jupiter is the largest planet in the solar system." Racist. Bigot. Go ahead keep calling me that ad nauseum. I really don't care.
"Our discussion is concluded. You are a race-baiter and a bigot baiter. Nothing"
Coward.
I asked you to cite information to your claims- SPECIFICALLY about "churches in MA being forced...:
You failed. Then like the little conservative bitch you are...ran away "blaming" me.
You CHANGED YOUR CLAIM and when called on it, could not provide any data to support your false alligation (aka LIE) that "church in MA are forced to marry gays".
@hipstermi As I stated, our debate is concluded. Prager has gay friends, so calling him a homophobe is moronic. Same w/calling him a bigot. You only have name-calling and bile and there is no further point to discussion, b/c you aren't clear as to what your values are. 1st you tell me that kids aren't relevant to marriage. Then I point that out, and then you call me a liar for it. It's ridiculous.
@hipstermi Just to make something clear. I don't care about random quotes from sources from Left-wing blogs about Prager. Lefties like you are on an endless quest for bigotry, racism, etc and will look for it ad nauseum. It's pathologically obsessive Y frankly not just Right-wing people, but moderates as well are just getting plain sick of it. Take your quest for bigotry and shove in the trash along w/your despicable arrogance and cruelty toward your fellow Americans for doing so as well.
@hipstermi "Funny how the Holocaust Memorial Council dismissed him for such comments." Actually he wasn't dismissed; That isn't true. "Iit was over his claim that the oath of office should be done on the Bible, not Koran. "He also hates gays like many right wing bigots...all for his religion." Now that is an outright lie as he has friends who are gay. I only responded to make sure that the truth is known. Go ahead w/the race-baiting & bigot baiting as Lefties love to do.
The Holocause Memorial Coucil said of Prager's bigotry: "while recognizing that Dennis Prager has the right to express his personal views freely, disassociates itself from Mr. Prager's statements as being antithetical to the mission of the Museum as an institution promoting tolerance and respect for all peoples regardless of their race, religion or ethnicity."
"Now that is an outright lie as he has friends who are gay."
so "some of his best friends are...." is your excuse? lame.
@hipstermi I really don't care who you call bigots, et al as Lefties will call anyone they differ w/ a bigot, et al for any reason possible anyway. "The sky on Mars is pinkish-Red." Racist. Bigot. BTW, I did some checking on suing churches for not allowing same-sex weddings & receptions. Already occurred in UK, New Hampshire & Washington, D.C. A photographer in AZ was sued for similar reasons. So there is the proof that you asked for. I wasn't lying at all. Deal w/it.
"not allowing same-sex weddings & receptions. Already occurred in UK, New Hampshire & Washington, D.C. A photographer in AZ was sued...So there is the proof that you asked for. I wasn't lying at all"
You lied and lie more:
1st you claimed churches in MA were "forced" to marry couples. You now CHANGED what you claimed. The UK is another country.
Being "sued" doesn't mean the action happened & a photographer is not a "church".
@hipstermi "Why did you CHANGE YOUR CLAIM yet again? " You stated that there would be more liberty w/same-sex marriage. I disputed that in a series of claims including that religious institutions would be forced not to discriminate against gay couples. That refers to same-sex weddings & receptions, and adoptions. That also refers to private business. I never changed my claim at all. Go back to where this part of the discussion began. Still, I'm really done here.
@hipstermi I don't need to answer any of your questions, b/c I ceased debating you a while ago. Just understand this: People, not just Right-wingers. are utterly fed up w/ the ad nauseum arrogant, obnoxious, vicious and cruel race-baiting & bigot baiting that Lefties engage in. You have already paid a price for it as race card has maxed out. Soon the gay card and the bigot card will also max out.
@hipstermi No. You didn't prove anything. Go back to the beginning of that part of the conversation. You claimed that there would be less gov and more freedom w/same-sex marriage & I responded to that w/a series of items including the claim that institutions would be forced to have same-sex couples attend in weddings & receptions, which definitely has occurred in NH & DC. Keep calling me a liar. I really don't care. I'm only responding to correct any misperceptions. NOW GOOD-BYE!
"institutions would be forced to have same-sex couples attend in weddings & receptions, which definitely has occurred in NH & DC."
THis is a lie.
You said "churches in MA" now you changed it to "NH and DC"
Same question- cite one instance, news story, or law where a church was/is forced to marry a gay couple.
You also didn't address the point churches already have tights to refuse marriage (jew/christian, catholic/pro choice politician) and ducked the examples I provided.
@hipstermi "You also didn't address the point churches already have tights to refuse marriage (jew/christian, catholic/pro choice politician) and ducked the examples I provided." Actually I think that churches may be forced to provide marriages for person's of other faiths. After all you can't discriminate on religion and anti-discrimination laws are severely prone to abuse. Ever heard of the lawsuit against Hooters by more than 1000 men to be waiters?
why is it Conservatives always say "less government!" but you seem to want the government to rule in favor of banning gay marriage?"
Notice it did not specifically refer to MA alone, nor any specific legal aspect by itself alone, but to less government, which can & does refer to many things & I responded w/a series of items. If someone is lying here, it is u or maybe u forgot the original ?
There are no laws that churches are forced to provide marriages for anyone.
However, if the laws are changed to recognize same sex marriage, then it would become illegal for churches to deny marrying someone. It would end up creating a case for "discrimination", civil rights infractions etc.
If same sex marriage becomes allowable by law, then Churches should be GUARANTEED the right without any judicial recourse to NOT marry people that go against their religious beliefs.
"There are no laws that churches are forced to provide marriages for anyone.
However, if the laws are changed to recognize same sex marriage, then it would become illegal for churches to deny marrying someone"
That's conservative fear talk, not basis of truth.
The law says a Rabbi can refuse to marry a Jew to a Christian. Why doesnt your "discrimination" point work there? It's discrimination for me to NOT hire someone for being a Christian or Jew.
@hipstermi "That's conservative fear talk, not basis of truth." Wrong. It occurred in NJ & DC. From NPR: "DC: Yvonne Moore a lesbian sued her church for 250K for not allowing for a same-sex wedding. Other case: Ocean Grove, New Jersey: Harriet Bernstein and Luisa Paster filed the complaint June 19 with the state attorney general's office on the grounds of discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation."
1. A quick google search reveals Yvonne Moore sued Covenant Baptist Church ifor $250k in past donations after the ministers announced their plans to be inclusive & WELCOME gay unions. Shes like YOU.
I notice you never admit to being wrong...but there's no way around it now.
2. Harriet Bernstein and Luisa Paster sued a church over the use of public PAVILION, which gets public tax money. They were NOT asking the minister to marry them.
@hipstermi Anti-discrimination law in employment does pertain to religion, but there is no anti-discrimination law regarding religious affiliation in marriage. Hence your claim of religious affiliation is invalid as an analogy. If same sex marriage is implemented, then yes such anti-discrimination law does pertain to sexual preference by definition, but not to religious affiliation. AND DO NOT GIVE ME CRAP ABOUT MA!
"If same sex marriage becomes allowable by law, then Churches should be GUARANTEED the right without any judicial recourse to NOT marry people that go against their religious beliefs."
I agree!
I think you would find gay couples agree. So the Rev. at St. Goofus won't marry then, they go to Openminded Chapel down the street...or a court house.
At the courthouse our gay couple meets my example Christian/Jew couple who get rejected by Rabbi Grumpypants...
I love this guy, he speaks the truth!
Callilly 1 month ago
@JustinC721
vixenchild333 4 months ago
Love you, love you, love you, Zo bro! (my brother from another moher!!)
arwen9331 7 months ago
Alfonzo,
I've been really enjoying your videos over the past few days. I'm curious as to what your thoughts are on matters of judicial accountability. Thought it might be a good idea for a video.
aolphobe 7 months ago
i just listened to this guy while playing a game online. i didnt expect him to be black. i didnt think conservative blacks existed. have a tough time calling him a right wing fascists.... but im more in the middle of this right left nonesense
MsReefmaster 8 months ago in playlist Klavan and PJTV Gems
Pure anecdotes. No actual facts just jokes. Way to go guy
ultraDoogishone 8 months ago
If only more people had this common sense! Conservative and proud of it! =)
imwinning09 9 months ago
conservative humor... is not funny.
JustinC721 10 months ago
@JustinC721 liberals are........not smart
GOmacORgoback 10 months ago 2
@GOmacORgoback
You're right. Liberals are not smart when compared to Einstien, Stephen Hawking etc. But we liberals are very smart when compared to the typical knuckle dragging conservatives.
JustinC721 10 months ago
@JustinC721 typical liberal......resorting to name calling just to get an uneducated point across
GOmacORgoback 10 months ago 7
@GOmacORgoback
Ha! Talk about the pot and kettle. Look at your reply!
Go pray to god or something you christian right wing shit kicker.
JustinC721 10 months ago
@GOmacORgoback 583 people disagree with you
david52875 10 months ago
@GOmacORgoback sorry I meant to reply to @justinc721
david52875 10 months ago
@david52875 thankyou for having a brain
GOmacORgoback 10 months ago
THIS GUY MAKES TOO MUCH SENSE! he must be an uncle tom right lefties?
TheHabit00 11 months ago
Ya know, I just watched a video from a news story where a Wendy's employee was literally beat down inside the store she worked in by a mob of teenage girls.
I have a simple question, if our society as a whole says it's perfectly OK for a mother to voluntarily kill her unborn fetus, then why can't I go into a Wendy's a beat down another human?
The city of NY has actually aborted more minority children that it birthed.
If I were a minority I would start asking some real deep questions.
EchoMike03 1 year ago 5
HEAR HEAR!!!
TGxHITMANx 1 year ago
You have to research this guys life to see exactly who he is, and who he is trying to get a pat on the head from. If you go to this country's dark days, Zo would be the one saying, "They're planning on escaping tonight."
pantex1928 1 year ago
what a dick
prafty 1 year ago
@rashadkijani Where has Zo called Blacks traitors? I didn't see that. Misguided maybe, but not race traitors. On the Dem plantation? Yes, if you don't think for yourselves, then you are on a plantation.
Aegius 1 year ago
Stem cells are not, repeat not, 'unborn' lives. I am going to watch something else now. thank-you for being retarded.
eleuthromania 1 year ago
@eleuthromania That actually depends. There is Post-natal stem cells, adult stem cells but the one everyone seems to want to fund are pre-natal stem cells. Which are unborn children and harvested through abortion. The first is the cheapest, just scrape the after birth, the second the most promising, the third the most evil.
nivarion 1 year ago
@nivarion I called superman and he said : “Is it more unethical for a woman to donate unused embryos that will never become human beings, or to let them be tossed away as so much garbage when they could help save thousands of lives.”
eleuthromania 1 year ago
@eleuthromania Interesting, you know superman? Any clue where he was nine years ago when some terrorists themselves some planes?
As smug as you may feel right now, I would argue that it is far more ethical to be careful when you have sex, as well as with whom, and to practice preventive measures than to murder a potential human being for simply existing.
As I pointed out, there are other cheaper and morally superior ways to research stem cells. As well as more effective.
nivarion 1 year ago
@nivarion Smug, moi? I was quoting Christopher Reeves by the way. To 'murder a potential human being', as you put it, is impossible. Look in the dictionary: a murder is committed against a living person. And it would obviously not be 'for simply existing', but to help potentially hundreds of thousands of people to live their lives, to alleviate and prevent suffering and death. Who could be against that?
eleuthromania 1 year ago
@eleuthromania And here you are, missing the point. "but to help potentially hundreds of thousands of people to live their lives"
As I said, there are two other ways to research stem cells, both of which have no moral questions in the harvesting. One of which is just as effective, and free to harvest (no one saves the after birth) and the other is more effective and almost as cheap.
As I said, I'm not against preemptive birth control, just reactive, which is murder.
nivarion 1 year ago
@eleuthromania Why don't you explain how they are not lives?
fluteygurl0 7 months ago
@fluteygurl0 Eh?
eleuthromania 6 months ago
Dont you hate when we make sense and you cant win. Finally someone who looks at it from the true perspective. People watched this so why dont people watch Nancy Pelosi and the Fannie Mae Freddie Mac crisis. This is real yet you wont listen!!!
diny540 1 year ago
All this guy needs is a jockey's uniform and a lantern and he be equipped with all he needs to be a convincing lawn jockey. When conservatism stop being his cash cow, he can start a career standing in peoples front yards.
aklugh 1 year ago
@aklugh All you need is an AK-47 and an excuse to kill anyone that doesn't want their future and their children's to be raped by politicians that tax them out of their own success. He can continue his career in my front yard, if he so feels the need, but I think that he is doing quite well without a bullhorn and grill so there's no need to offer my front yard you commie bastard.
fishguru73 1 year ago
@aklugh Another Left-wing racist. Yes. Dictating to Blacks how to think on the basis of race is racist. That is what Left-wing racists like you do.
Aegius 1 year ago
@Aegius How do liberals dictate to blacks what to think?
rashadkijani 1 year ago
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@rashadkijani Stating that if you don't believe what they believe then you are a traitor to your racial group or refer to the person as an "Uncle Tom", "Oreo" or otherwise.
Aegius 1 year ago
@Aegius Well if caling some one an uncle tom make you a racist then that means republicans black and white are racist. Republicans keep telling blacks that voting democrat is betraying their race and you are being duped becuz the dem party started the KKK. And blacks republicans are constantly like to tell black dem they are the ones living on the democrat plantation. And Ive had plenty of republicans tell me that barack doesnt really count as the first black president.
rashadkijani 1 year ago
@rashadkijani Of course Republicans encourage Blacks to vote Republican, but they don't call them sell-outs and traitors for NOT doing so. Repubs correctly point out that Dems started the KKK in RESPONSE to claims that Repubs are like the KKK and the lies of the track record of Dems pushing civil rights when Repubs weren't. Many people state that Barack isn't the first Black president, b/c he is half-White. It's really silly, but he is Non-White.
Aegius 1 year ago
@Aegius Yes republicans do Zo here has called dem blacks traitors to our race and they accuse us of being on the dem plantation all the time. they constantly accuse jesse jackson and al sharpton of not really caring about other blacks and imply they are selling out the black race for some ulterior motives. They accuse every dem black they dont like of betraying the black race.
rashadkijani 1 year ago
@Aegius And I am black and I have personal experiences of whites telling me I dont measure up to their version of black. I have people who have Identified themselves as white on you tube telling me about how obama cant relate to blacks cuz he doesnt really qualify as black. And here is a clip of beck making the same comments. watch?v=weUZsIjC7UU
rashadkijani 1 year ago
@Aegius They say barack and michelle really dont count as being black becuz they are educated.Allan keyes even questioned baracks authenticity as being black when barack ran against him. So by your own definition its republicans who are dictating to blacks what to think.
rashadkijani 1 year ago
@rashadkijani No one says that Barack & Michelle aren't Black due to education except other Blacks who call them "Uncle Toms" and "Acting White." Conservatives don't do that. Nice try, but there is no validity to that claim. None.
Aegius 1 year ago
Rachel like other idiotic Black conservatives are tryna cash in their chips for being being Black and against Obama. Timing is everything. Why didn't we see these boot-licking Black conservatives when Bush was in office. why didn't we see them praising Bush? What ever fame these nutjobs got they need to thank Obama
HeadToucher 1 year ago 2
@HeadToucher THey were complaining about the overspending under Bush too. So what? Bush is GONE! & BTW trying to "cash in their chips for being Black and against Obama"? You are a racist for fixating on the race and attempting to denigrate him on that basis.
Aegius 1 year ago
@HeadToucher Racist!
hyetalian1 1 year ago
That was awesome. I'm sending this everywhere.
Mell0nballer 1 year ago
@Mell0nballer Rachel published a book. I was asking if anyone read it.
Aegius 1 year ago
Does anyone know if Alfonzo Rachel's book is any good?
Aegius 1 year ago
Has anyone read Zo's book? Is it a good read? I have been watching his videos. He is quite eloquent and cogent in his statements, but he doesn't have the erudition of Thomas Sowell or Dennis Prager.
Aegius 1 year ago
@Aegius
Oh...another lie needing to be called out-
you still haven't cited any source material to prove your claim the world population is dropping. you made this claim to "prove" married couples should procreate and they are "selfish" if they don't follow YOUR mindset and "values"
Rather little tin god like of you by the way...
site the information please...it's dishonest to make that claim and run away when called out.
hipstermi 1 year ago
@hipstermi I didn't say that the world population was dropping. I said birth rates were dropping and cited a source. I did say that married couples should procreate and ones who don't are selfish. Yes, those are my values and we differ. Okay. I didn't lie that you stated that bearing & raising of kids is irrelevant to marriage. You repeatedly stated as much. This is about IDEALS and VALUES, not the law. Law is based upon values and values is the primary concern, not law.
Aegius 1 year ago
@Aegius
"I did say that married couples should procreate and ones who don't are selfish. Yes, those are my values and we differ."
That's not a "value" that's an opinion, dumbass.
"Okay. I didn't lie that you stated that bearing & raising of kids is irrelevant to marriage"
You LIE again. I said it was irellevant to the DISCUSSIOn.
Tell you what...show me a quote proving your claim. You have a history of changing the story in these things...and unlike you I don't delete my posts.
you lied
hipstermi 1 year ago
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@Aegius
"I said birth rates were dropping and cited a source"
I don't recall you citing a source. You said something about "Europe" (funny how you changed from world to Europe) but no source.
Or was it one of the many posts you deleted?
can you cite this alleged source again?
hipstermi 1 year ago
@hipstermi Whether or not I'm Christian is irrelevant to the discussion. Of course I didn't answer it, b/c you are bigoted piece of crap who will insult anyone galore who differs w/u and will invoke anti-religious hatred in doing so. CHarles Krauthammer is agnostic & opposes same-sex marriage. You'll find some means of insulting him. You are the real bigot here as you have no respect for dissent at all.
Aegius 1 year ago
@Aegius
"Whether or not I'm Christian is irrelevant to the discussion."
So YOU brow beat all these inane questions want to know personal things...then ask where I get my "values" from. You re now too chicken shit to admit where you get yours. Typical conservative coward.
"you are bigoted piece of crap who"
Odd how conservatives do that- take what they are and try to turn it around. I called YOUR bigotry towards gays...and like Glenn Beck you find a "reverse" card.
hipstermi 1 year ago
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@Aegius
"You are the real bigot here as you have no respect for dissent at all."
yet YOU stated the gay marriage is wrong based on your "values" (that you are too chicken shit to define)
YOU called straight parents who choose not to have kids "selfish".
A typical conservative, you have this little tin god image of your self righteous self. black and white in your world.
hipstermi 1 year ago
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Aegius 1 year ago
I didn't change my original story regarding the issue of weddings in MA at all. I referred to "big government", which is what hipstermi referred to. I commented on a series of items including religious institutions being sued, which has happened as a Yeshiva was sued for not allowing a Lesbian couple in its dormitory & a church was sued for not allowing a couple to use its area for a reception in its pavillion.
Aegius 1 year ago
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Aegius 1 year ago
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Has anyone read Zo's new book? Is it any good?
Aegius 1 year ago
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Aegius 1 year ago
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Aegius 1 year ago
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Aegius 1 year ago
@hiptermi The DC case was that she sued, b/c they allowed for same-sex weddings in her church. It had nothing to do w/past donations. Hence we were BOTH wrong on that one. Next on the NJ case proved my point. They weren't allowed to turn the gay couple away. It was about a reception, so I didn't lie there. NPR referred to a series of cases including those two. I didn't lie at all. I got my info from NPR & not from a google website.
Aegius 1 year ago
@hipstermi Actually you lied, when you stated that I only referred to weddings in MA. I referred to many items regarding larger gov per the expansion of the definition of marriage including forcing the MA adoption agency to move if they wanted to prefer a man:woman couple to a same-sex couple, the "Prince Marrying a Prince" book that parents weren't allowed to object towards, E-Harmony being forced to provide services to gays, & Yeshiva school being sued by a Lesbian couple in MA.
Aegius 1 year ago
@Aegius
"The DC case was that she sued, b/c they allowed for same-sex weddings in her church"
You LIED again and CHANGED YOUR STORY. When you do this I notice you DONT use cut and paste and we see a lot of "removed" posts of yours.
You originally claimed Moore was suing because she was NOT permitted to have a gay ceremony there. I caught you in that lie.
Why did you CHANGE YOUR STORY.
you lied so much you cant even keep your story straight. you are pathological.
hipstermi 1 year ago
@hipstermi I asked you if you believe that marriage pertained to the bearing & raising of kids. Then you told me that it was irrelevent. THen I pointed that out and said it was okay. We have different values and that is fine. Then you accused me of lying for pointing it out. I also pointed out that you believe that there is no difference between a mom & dad vs 2 women w/o dad or 2 men w/o mom. You again told me that I lied. You are a pathological accuser & that is exasperating.
Aegius 1 year ago
@Aegius
"I asked you if you believe that marriage pertained to the bearing & raising of kids. Then you told me that it was irrelevent"
You lie again.
I said "irrelavent to the DISCUSSION" By leaving that out, you changed the whole meaning of what I said.
"We have different values and that is fine."
Outside of "marriage must lead to kids" you havent articulated much of yours. Are you a Christian?
You self righteous dickhead-ness also called str8 couples with no kids "selfish".
hipstermi 1 year ago
@hipstermi The bearing and raising of kids is quite relevant to the discussion. This is about ideals and values, not the law. Are we to decide that a couple that can produce kids & provide both a mom & dad to them as equally ideal for society as a couple can do neither? If we decide to have marriage as male:male & female:female equally ideal to male:female, then yes we are. If we decide marriage as male:female only, then the focus is on bearing & raising kids.
Aegius 1 year ago
@Aegius
"The bearing and raising of kids is quite relevant to the discussion"
As discussed, not every couple can have or chooses to have kids. They count as much in society as parental couples. You can pretend all you want, but those re hte facts.
"Are we to decide that a couple that can produce kids & provide both a mom & dad to them as equally ideal for society as a couple can do neither?"
You seem to have a "problem" with equality.
hipstermi 1 year ago
@hipstermi I didn't favor keeping marriage solely as male:female on the basis of whether churches would be sued. In NH the gov & legislature specifically put in legislation against it. You NEVER mentioned that.
I favored keeping marriage as male:female only, b/c 1)Marriage as male:female leads to family as dad:mom:kids. Kids are entitled to a mother & father as that is how ultimately they enter this world, not just males or just females & in turn deprived of either. cont...
Aegius 1 year ago
@hipstermi 2)Marriage is supposed to lead to procreation per my values, but not yours. Ever heard the term, "bastard" or "illegitamite"? That referred to a child born outside of marriage & it used to be looked down upon. Sorry, but 2 gay women/men can't do that by themselves. 3)Marriage is to provide a home for kids. If kids are irrelevant to marriage, then it doesn't matter how a home is provided to them. Again my values, not yours. 4)yes I do think that sexuality is more fluid. cont..
Aegius 1 year ago
@hipstermi My intention was to get my points across and leave it at that. Instead you ad nauseum called me a liar over everything possible especially when I pointed out your statements that indicated your beliefs & values("good parents"... "irrelevant to gay marriage"). Hence we went in circles as I was trying to show what you stated to give me that indication & you just endlessly called me a liar. The truth is that you're stuck in your world where anyone who differs w/u is a liar & scum.
Aegius 1 year ago
@hipstermi I gave my real points on same-sex marriage. It wasn't about bigotry, but what is best for society and kids. If kids are just as well raised w/2 good men or 2 good women vs a good man & women in your view, so be it. If marriage has nothing to do w/bearing & raising of kids in your view, so be it. If it doesn't matter to you how a kid is raised pertaining to marriage, so be it. If you think that adoption agencies should provide equal access to gay couples vs. str8 couples, so be it.
Aegius 1 year ago
@hipstermi If you think that kids in schools should be taught that they can pursue the opposite sex as well as the same sex in relationships as equally ideal, so be it.(Reason #5 why I oppose same-sex marriage as I think that pursuing the opposite sex should be the ideal. Str8 couples lead to kids; gay couples don't.) If you think that businesses should be forced to cater equally to str8s & gays, so be it. The point was clarification, not winning debates.
Aegius 1 year ago
@hipstermi There are many 1000s of gays who oppose same-sex marriage. Are they anti-gay too? I didn't mention the slippery slippery slope argument, but polygamy is being discussed in courts in Canada & why not incest if marriage isn't about kids & this is about equality. Incestual marriage is egalitarian after all.
Aegius 1 year ago
@hipstermi Those are my points. Call me a liar and everything else: bigot, homophobe, racist, acrophobe-ist, cynaphobe-ist(yeah I hate people who are afraid of dogs of course), sexist, Fascist, pro-Hitler, aquaphobe-ist, Martian and everything else. "Jupter is the largest planet in the solar system." Racist. Bigot. Homophobe. Sexist, Acrophobe-ist.
Aegius 1 year ago
@Aegius
Correction- I never called you a "bigot, fascist" and several other things you listed. Why did you lie about that?
Your opposition to gay marriage is bigotry. And before you talk "values" and "opinion" all those reasons were cited in those that opposed interracial marriage and even women voting. Those people look fairly bigoted today... so be ready for your kdis and grandkids to be ashamed of you.
You never answered the question- are you a Christian?
hipstermi 1 year ago
@hipstermi "Your opposition to gay marriage is bigotry." No, it isn't and that is a lie. You are a bigot baiter. My opposition to same-sex marriage is that children are entitled to a mom & dad & that the ideal for society should be couples that can bear and raise kids, not couples that can do neither. This has nothing to do w/interracial marriage as 1)there is no difference w/the races, yet enormous differences w/the sexes. cont...
Aegius 1 year ago
@Aegius
""Your opposition to gay marriage is bigotry." No, it isn't and that is a lie. You are a bigot baiter"
Cue Fox News like reporting on "reverse" racism.... you sound about as convincing.
"My opposition to same-sex marriage is that children are entitled to a mom & dad & that the ideal for society"
Your hypocricy betrays you.
You don't seek to pass laws against straight couples not having kids.
"is no difference w/the races, yet enormous differences w/the sexe"
equality
hipstermi 1 year ago
@hipstermi cont... Is having separate bathrooms/locker rooms for men & women the same as having separate bathrooms/locker rooms for Whites & Blacks? No. 2)An interracial, str8 couple can produce kids & provide a mom & dad for them. A gay couple can do neither. 3)My values had nothing to do w/stopping people from voting. That is a despicable lie. 4)Yes, you called me bigot and the other things. You lie again. 5)I'm diestic. 6)You avoided the ? on gays opposed to same-sex marriage.Are they bigots?
Aegius 1 year ago
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@Aegius
"You avoided the ? on gays opposed to same-sex marriage.Are they bigots?"
That's a lie. I gave you an answer.
"5)I'm diestic"
It's spelled "deistic".
And if that's the case, your "values" on "married couples MUST have kids" seems contrary.
hipstermi 1 year ago
@Aegius
"There are many 1000s of gays who oppose same-sex marriage. Are they anti-gay too"
You exagerate the numbers. But as usual you set up a smoke screen to avoid the issue. That's like asking in the 70s "women like Phyllis Schlafly oppose ERA...does that make her anti women?"
Despite your exagerration there are thousands MORE gays who are for it.
Then again those gays opposed to it? Same answer we give to straights- "opposed to gay marriage? Fine, don't get one"
hipstermi 1 year ago
@Aegius
But you HAVE lied several times.
1. you have stated "so you think...." and they weren't what I thought. When you were corrected you just repeated the accusation.
2. you even lied about your own posts. case in point- when you accused the women for suing a church for not being able to have a gay wedding. I corrected you and said she as a believer sued for the church holding weddings (meanign she's one of you). you had removied the original post and LIED about changing your story.
hipstermi 1 year ago
@Aegius
He Aegius, you have repeatedly talked about "values" and then you asked ME where I get mine.
So how come instead of vagely stating your values you haven't provided the SAME information? You didn't even answer if you are a Christian or not. Such info can be important to determine how rational a person you are.
What are you afraid of in answering these questions yourself?
hipstermi 1 year ago
@Aegius
"2)Marriage is supposed to lead to procreation per my values, "
You never stated WHERE your "values" originated from. Are you a Christian?
Your "values" are not hte law of this land.
"Values" is a subjective term.
"but not yours."
Typical selfish conservative- instead of freedom and choice in the matter, your "values" are to count over everyone elses.
and again- KIDS ARE NOT A LEGAL REQUIREMENT FOR MARRIAGE.
hipstermi 1 year ago
@Aegius
In answer to your numbered points :
1. Even with str8s, having kids is not a legal requirement of marriage.
2. procreation per YOUR values but not mine? Far as I know no ones "values" are the working model.
3. See answer #1. YOUR values are not law. Values are subjective.
4. fluid/non fluid sexuality doesn't matter in this
5. your reason 5 is the same as your 1...kids. you repeat things a lot and I already answered this in my #1.
hipstermi 1 year ago
Oh yeah & in MA, A Yeshiva school was sued by a gay couple for not allowing usage of its dormitory, so there is anti-discrimination regarding housing. There is also anti-discrimination regarding schools as in the case of "Prince Marrying a Prince"(Parents protested & were dismissed) and private enterprise regarding E-Harmony. Yes, w/ same-sex marriage there is larger gov. That was the point & that has been proven.
Aegius 1 year ago
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Aegius 1 year ago
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Aegius 1 year ago
@hipstermi I cited case law already and answer your question on "less government", not solely less government in MA nor solely churches. That is why I referred to E-Harmony, adoption agencies, churches being sued in NH, DC & UK, & kids being taught about a "Prince Marrying a Prince" and parents being dismissed in their complaints about it. That is what happened. Believe what you will. I really don't care.
Aegius 1 year ago
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Aegius 1 year ago
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Aegius 1 year ago
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Aegius 1 year ago
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Aegius 1 year ago
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Aegius 1 year ago
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Aegius 1 year ago
@hipstermi Is there anything left to cover for this discussion? No. Did I get my points across? Yes. Did you get your points across? Yes. We are done then.
Aegius 1 year ago
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@Aegius
"Is there anything left to cover for this discussion? No. Did I get my points across?"
No you didnt...because you left a lot of questions unanswered, despite badgering me with questions.
You also FAILED to prove the "churches in MA are forced to marry gays". You were wrong, I was right, and your failure to cite an instance of a CHURCH MARRIAGE in MA testifies to that. Citing a dating service and adoption is irrelevant...like all your posts.
You were wrong.
hipstermi 1 year ago
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Aegius 1 year ago
For everyone except hipstermi: Is there someone here who does NOT know that Europe's countries' birth rates are well below replacement levels?(except Ireland which is barely below)? Same w/Australia, Japan & Canada? Ave fertility rate in Europe: 1.53. CIA World Fact book. Japan: 1.21 Australia: 1.78. Canada 1.61 Index Mundi. Seriously I really didn't need to research this. It's common knowledge.
Aegius 1 year ago
Conservative political demotivators: watch?v=Wu-3Eryt2pA
JohananRaatz 1 year ago
hipstermi, our discussion is concluded. Go read the works of Thomas Sowell, a Black person who is lauded on the Right. I only mention his color, b/c if we were such horrible racists, bigots, et al, he wouldn't get the welcome mat. However he gets called an "oreo" and an "uncle tom" just like Lloyd Marcus, Alfonzo Rachel and the rest frequently by Lefties, who obsess on race.
Aegius 1 year ago
@hipstermi Also E-Harmony was FORCED in MA to cater to both gay couples and str8 couples per case law. Look it up. That is per same-sex marriage. Now as stated, further discussion is pointless as you aren't clear as to what your values are, you keep accusing me of lies for no basis & you're stuck in your world paradigm, that frankly I really don't care about. Yeah, the TEA Party is racist while it has many Black spokespersons. /sarc What a joke!
Aegius 1 year ago
@Aegius
"Also E-Harmony was FORCED in MA to cater to both gay couples and str8 couples per case law"
Not a "church in MA" as you claimed.
"further discussion is pointless as you aren't clear as to what your values are"
And yet you keep replying....
So why did you CHANGE YOUR STORY yet again?
"aren't clear as to what your values are"
you didn't answer my questions about yourself...including if you are a Christian.
and I already explained how your deceptively worded "values" are opinion.
hipstermi 1 year ago
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@hipstermi Typical Left-wing way of dealing with issues. Try to personally destroy your opponent rather than deal with the ideas, arguments or actual issue at hand. Go figure. I see this all the time. Done with radio talk show hosts by you and you didn't deal w/Prager, Levin or Medved as you dealt w/others, b/c you can't dismiss them as you sought to do so w/others. Well, you'll try to destroy them rather than deal w/arguments, et al. Typical Left-wing arrogance.
Aegius 1 year ago
@hipstermi Typical Left-wing way of dealing with issues. Try to personally destroy your opponent rather than deal with the ideas, arguments or actual issue at hand. Go figure. I see this all the time. Done with radio talk show hosts by you and you didn't deal w/Prager, Levin or Medved as you dealt w/others, b/c you can't dismiss them as you sought to do so w/others. Well, you'll try to destroy them rather than deal w/arguments, et al. Typical Left-wing arrogance.
Aegius 1 year ago
@Aegius
"Typical Left-wing way of dealing with issues. Try to personally destroy your opponent rather than deal with the ideas, arguments or actual issue at hand"
Which are you referring to? I assume Monckton?
I didn't "destroy" him...I listed a rebuttal that claims ALL his cited scientists/sources disagree with him. How is that NOT relevant to the discussion?
You don't appear to have even read this...or know what Monckton did to that Prof and the college.
hipstermi 1 year ago
@hipstermi Alfonzo Rachel: high school drop out. In fact he got his GED. Mentioning that Beck, Limbaugh, et al aren't "educated". That is an attempt to destroy them. That is how the Left operates. You call your opponents "hate-mongers", racists, Fascists, sexists, homophobes, etc., to dismiss and destroy them rather than deal w/their arguments. Now how are you going to try to destroy Prager, Medved, Hugh Hewitt & Mark Levin? Just something to think about.
Aegius 1 year ago
@Aegius
"You call your opponents "hate-mongers", racists, Fascists, sexists, homophobes, etc., to dismiss and destroy them rather than deal w/their arguments"
Oh boo hoo...like Zo, Beck, Limbaugh, etc don't "call names". Quit being such a crybaby. Zo himself has accused the Dems of racism.
When someone IS a racist or a bigot, why not call them out on it OR how it effects their politics? Let's ignore these guys...what if you have someone like David Duke taking a stand?
hipstermi 1 year ago
@Aegius
"You call your opponents "hate-mongers", racists, Fascists, sexists, homophobes, etc.,"
I'm curious if you get this upset when Fox news mentions "reverse racism" (the only kind they can ever see apparently cause white guys have it so "tough")
or Beck says the President is a "racist" ...ditto on Limbaugh.
hipstermi 1 year ago
@hipstermi Most of your comments are vacuous insults that really aren't worth responding to and frankly our discussion has been going in circles. One reason for that is that you aren't really clear about what your values are. Do you value the bearing and raising of kids as integral marriage or not? I do and that is partly why I oppose same-sex marriage. Initially you told me that you don't, then you told me that I lied when you said you did. Which is it? cont...
Aegius 1 year ago
@hipstermi cont... You keep telling me that I'm lying when stating that you consider kids irrelevant to marriage and then tell me that that I lie when you state kids are irrelevent to "gay marriage". You also accuse me of lying when I state that liberty is compromised by having same-sex marriage. Liberty is always compromised by pursuit for equality as equality requires gov coercion, which reduces liberty. Same sex marriage leads to changes across society in many institutions. cont...
Aegius 1 year ago
@hipstermi cont... That's why in schools books of a prince marrying a prince get taught. That's why adoption agencies can't discriminate a couple that provides both a mom & dad over a couple that provides only the mother figure or father figure. That's why a gay couple can sue a mosque, church, etc & E-Harmony for discrimination in MA. When the court forces such institutions in behavior, then limits liberty. That disturbs you, so rather than face it you call me a liar. cont...
Aegius 1 year ago
@hipstermi cont... Look, you will have to decide upon your values and not one else. Should kids be relevant to marriage? Should the ideal for society be a couple that produces kids and provide a mom & dad or should that couple be equally ideal to a couple that refuses to have kids or a gay couple that cannot produce kids nor provide a mom & dad? Should religious & other liberty by compromised for equality of making heterosexuality & homosexuality equally ideal in society? That's your decision.
Aegius 1 year ago
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Aegius 1 year ago
@hiptermi I had thought that you had already decided upon your values, but you haven't and aren't clear on them. I can't debate someone who isn't clear on their values, as it isn't clear what is being debated. Hence this debate cannot continue and is pointless. Re: GOP being racist, et al, the notion is laughable for reasons given and people are sick & tired of the quest for racism by the Left. The Race Card has maxed out. Deal with it.
Aegius 1 year ago
@hiptermi cont.. Just to make it clear. The other reason that this discussion has been going in circles is that you keep accusing your opponents of being racist, Fascist, et al and I keep throwing it back at you. It's really a waste. People are sick & tired of the race card, so it really is best to drop it. But the Left won't of course. Go figure. As stated, this discussion is concluded, b/c you aren't clear on your values w/yourself & you need to decide that only.
Aegius 1 year ago
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@hipstermi cont... That's why in schools books of a prince marrying a prince get taught. That's why adoption agencies can't discriminate a couple that provides both a mom & dad over a couple that provides only the mother figure or father figure. That's why a gay couple can sue a mosque, church, etc & E-Harmony for discrimination in MA. When the court forces such institutions in behavior, then limits liberty. That disturbs you, so rather than face it you call me a liar. cont...
Aegius 1 year ago
@Aegius
Other questions/points you failed to answer (despite repeating the same ones over and over)
- you complain when we point out racism, homophobia, bigotry on the right...what are your thoughts on conservatives calling Obama a racist? or Fox news "reverse racism" claims?
- you never cited a law or incident in MA showing a church being forced to marry. You made this dumbass claim...so I asked for you to cite proof.
hipstermi 1 year ago
@hipstermi How are anti-discrimination laws enforced? Answer: Tort law. If a gay couple is turned away from a church for marriage, they can sue in MA, b/c the law doesn't allow for such discrimination. That is a fact. Deal w/it as insults don't help your case.
"you complain when we point out racism, homophobia, bigotry on the right." I complained about crying wolf(i.e. playing the race card, gay card, bigot card, etc.) Why? To shut us up & humiliate us. It's dishonest, despicable bullying.
Aegius 1 year ago
@Aegius
"gay couple is turned away from a church for marriage, they can sue in MA, b/c the law doesn't allow for such discrimination"
You keep repeating the same things...and yet avoid answering my questions.
How is a church saying "marrying gays is against our religion/no" any different than the other religious reasons the don't marry...I listed examples- orthodox Rabbi won't marry jew to chritian. Catholic Priest can refuse to marry pro choice politicians.
you never answered this.why?
hipstermi 1 year ago
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Aegius 1 year ago
@Aegius
"No other form of relationship provides the same statistical societal stability."
A. your actions and bigotry humilate you without me. That and religious zealots on the right. Man up and quite "blaming" others for your shortcomings.
B. I've already shown I am a lot more honest than you can aspire to be.
hipstermi 1 year ago
@hipstermi Just insults. Look, I'm not interested in further debate as 1)I got my points across and that really is all that I was interested in. 2)You are a race-baiter and bigot baiter. Serious, calling Dennis Prager a bigot and a homophobe. Pathetic. 3)I don't care if you think that I'm a bigot. You would call me & others on the right bigots for ANYTHING: "Mercury is the closet planet to the sun." Bigot. Racist.
Aegius 1 year ago
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Aegius 1 year ago
@Aegius
"Most of your comments are vacuous insults that really aren't worth responding"
Yet you made MANY responses...
"really clear about what your values are. Do you value the bearing and raising of kids as integral marriage or not?"
This is a smokescreen to make up for your lack of a rational point.
YOU aren't clear on your values.
Questions you didn't answer:
1. is this REALLY about your religion?
2. Are you a Christian?
hipstermi 1 year ago
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@Aegius
"raising of kids as integral marriage or not? I do and that is partly why I oppose same-sex marriage. Initially you told me that you don't, then you told me that I lied when you said you did."
Hows this for a new rule-
you need to QUOTE ME. Copy and paste. You keep playing these "you said..."
I repeatedly say "that's not what I said"...so quote me. Not what you "think" or "sounds like"...quote me, you liar
hipstermi 1 year ago
Respond to this video...
hipstermi 1 year ago
@Aegius
"Do you value the bearing and raising of kids as integral marriage or not?"
I've answered your deceptively worded question several times.
Kids are NOT a requirement of a marriage. Plenty of good marriages don't (my brother) or can't (my sterile Chemo-ed friend) have kids.
Couples can chose to have a larger family or not.
This is not a "value" it's OPINION. Yours aren't the ONLY ones that count & thus have no legal bearing (or rational for that matter)
hipstermi 1 year ago
@hipstermi "Kids are NOT a requirement of a marriage." I wasn't being deceptive at all. You have different values and that's okay. I believe that kids should be integral w/marriage. You don't. If I believed that, then I would favor same-sex marriage. & yes, it is a value. Frankly the rest of what you stated is vacuous, hate-filled crap, so I'm not going to respond. Seriously go look up birth rates, if you think that they didn't plummet in Europe, Canada or elsewhere.
Aegius 1 year ago
@Aegius
"Seriously go look up birth rates, if you think that they didn't plummet in Europe, Canada or elsewhere."
You did it again- when called on your BS claims, I have asked YOU to provide proof.
You either a. change the story (like "churches in MA") or don't answer.
YOU made the claim...why can't YOU cite the proof? If I made an alligation like the I would list where i got the info.
Intellectually lazy= stereotypical conservative.
hipstermi 1 year ago
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@Aegius
""Kids are NOT a requirement of a marriage." I wasn't being deceptive at all. You have different values and that's okay."
Yes you were being deceptive. Fox news level deceptive.
You imply if one has a different opinion, they have "no values". You also state that having kids is needed for a marriage...and call others "selfish" Even the minority of rational conservatives wouldn't say that.
hipstermi 1 year ago
@hipstermi Our discussion is concluded. You are a race-baiter and a bigot baiter. Nothing more needs to be said. I don't care if you called me a liar as I didn't lie about anything anywhere, nor did I change my story. Go ahead call me a racist and bigot. Here let me help you: "Pluto has been demoted to Khyber Belt Object from planet." Racist. Bigot. "Jupiter is the largest planet in the solar system." Racist. Bigot. Go ahead keep calling me that ad nauseum. I really don't care.
Aegius 1 year ago
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Aegius 1 year ago
@Aegius
"Our discussion is concluded. You are a race-baiter and a bigot baiter. Nothing"
Coward.
I asked you to cite information to your claims- SPECIFICALLY about "churches in MA being forced...:
You failed. Then like the little conservative bitch you are...ran away "blaming" me.
You CHANGED YOUR CLAIM and when called on it, could not provide any data to support your false alligation (aka LIE) that "church in MA are forced to marry gays".
Coward.
hipstermi 1 year ago
@Aegius
What does your bigotry or what I think of you have to do with these points:
a. you never proved "churches in MA are forced to marry gays"
b. you CHANGED YOUR CLAIM several times in this thread about 2 subjects. Me using copy and paste proved this.
coward.
hipstermi 1 year ago
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Aegius 1 year ago
@Aegius
"Alfonzo Rachel: high school drop out. In fact he got his GED"
Your later point does not refute the first.
Says a lot about his weak will (drug addiction) and his work ethic...or lack thereof.
Come on...4 years he couldn't finish?
Those lazy ass Good Enough Degrees should be done away with.
hipstermi 1 year ago
@Aegius
"Now how are you going to try to destroy Prager, Medved, Hugh Hewitt & Mark Levin?"
YOu mean outside of pulling some random quotes?
Prager seems as homopobic and a bigot much like you and Zo, so that wouldn't be too hard. Religious nuts are like that.
hipstermi 1 year ago
@hipstermi As I stated, our debate is concluded. Prager has gay friends, so calling him a homophobe is moronic. Same w/calling him a bigot. You only have name-calling and bile and there is no further point to discussion, b/c you aren't clear as to what your values are. 1st you tell me that kids aren't relevant to marriage. Then I point that out, and then you call me a liar for it. It's ridiculous.
Aegius 1 year ago
@hipstermi Just to make something clear. I don't care about random quotes from sources from Left-wing blogs about Prager. Lefties like you are on an endless quest for bigotry, racism, etc and will look for it ad nauseum. It's pathologically obsessive Y frankly not just Right-wing people, but moderates as well are just getting plain sick of it. Take your quest for bigotry and shove in the trash along w/your despicable arrogance and cruelty toward your fellow Americans for doing so as well.
Aegius 1 year ago
@Aegius
"Just to make something clear. I don't care about random quotes from sources from Left-wing blogs about Prager"
Who said anything about "left wing blogs" when I very clearly said Prager's own words can be used against him...as in his page, his interviews, etc.
Funny how the Holocaust Memorial Council dismissed him for such comments.
He also hates gays like many right wing bigots...all for his religion.
hipstermi 1 year ago
@hipstermi "Funny how the Holocaust Memorial Council dismissed him for such comments." Actually he wasn't dismissed; That isn't true. "Iit was over his claim that the oath of office should be done on the Bible, not Koran. "He also hates gays like many right wing bigots...all for his religion." Now that is an outright lie as he has friends who are gay. I only responded to make sure that the truth is known. Go ahead w/the race-baiting & bigot baiting as Lefties love to do.
Aegius 1 year ago
@Aegius
The Holocause Memorial Coucil said of Prager's bigotry: "while recognizing that Dennis Prager has the right to express his personal views freely, disassociates itself from Mr. Prager's statements as being antithetical to the mission of the Museum as an institution promoting tolerance and respect for all peoples regardless of their race, religion or ethnicity."
"Now that is an outright lie as he has friends who are gay."
so "some of his best friends are...." is your excuse? lame.
hipstermi 1 year ago
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@Aegius
"Prager has gay friends, so calling him a homophobe is moronic"
This reminds me of movies in the 1960s and 70s- "I'm not a racist...some of my best friends are black!" You and Prager sound about as "convincing".
"1st you tell me that kids aren't relevant to marriage"
Tell me if you are a Christian or not (you arent supposed to be ashamed of your faith)
hipstermi 1 year ago
@hipstermi I really don't care who you call bigots, et al as Lefties will call anyone they differ w/ a bigot, et al for any reason possible anyway. "The sky on Mars is pinkish-Red." Racist. Bigot. BTW, I did some checking on suing churches for not allowing same-sex weddings & receptions. Already occurred in UK, New Hampshire & Washington, D.C. A photographer in AZ was sued for similar reasons. So there is the proof that you asked for. I wasn't lying at all. Deal w/it.
Aegius 1 year ago
@Aegius
"not allowing same-sex weddings & receptions. Already occurred in UK, New Hampshire & Washington, D.C. A photographer in AZ was sued...So there is the proof that you asked for. I wasn't lying at all"
You lied and lie more:
1st you claimed churches in MA were "forced" to marry couples. You now CHANGED what you claimed. The UK is another country.
Being "sued" doesn't mean the action happened & a photographer is not a "church".
Why did you CHANGE YOUR CLAIM yet again?
hipstermi 1 year ago
@hipstermi "Why did you CHANGE YOUR CLAIM yet again? " You stated that there would be more liberty w/same-sex marriage. I disputed that in a series of claims including that religious institutions would be forced not to discriminate against gay couples. That refers to same-sex weddings & receptions, and adoptions. That also refers to private business. I never changed my claim at all. Go back to where this part of the discussion began. Still, I'm really done here.
Aegius 1 year ago
@Aegius
You need to directly answer all these questions:
1. Your reply was not "proof" of churchs in MA being forced to marry
2. Why did it take so long for you to reply
3. when you replied...not one instance in MA (one was another country & another was a photographer)
4. acknowledge a lawsuit, which you didnt state the outcome, is not the same as "forced to marry"
5. Why did you CHANGE YOU STORY about "forced to marry in MA" if you mention 5 non MA places and some non church events?
hipstermi 1 year ago
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Aegius 1 year ago
@hipstermi I don't need to answer any of your questions, b/c I ceased debating you a while ago. Just understand this: People, not just Right-wingers. are utterly fed up w/ the ad nauseum arrogant, obnoxious, vicious and cruel race-baiting & bigot baiting that Lefties engage in. You have already paid a price for it as race card has maxed out. Soon the gay card and the bigot card will also max out.
Aegius 1 year ago
@Aegius
"i I don't need to answer any of your questions,"
So I have to answer your inanae questions that you repeated, but you can't answer mine? Or is it you CAN'T when I ask you to cite data?
conservative coward. you can intern at fox with those credentials.
It's funny when conservatives are losing they often say "race card" and "reverse racism". Way to follow the script.
NONE of which has anything to do with your failure to cite data to back up your claims / lies.
coward.
hipstermi 1 year ago
@hipstermi No. You didn't prove anything. Go back to the beginning of that part of the conversation. You claimed that there would be less gov and more freedom w/same-sex marriage & I responded to that w/a series of items including the claim that institutions would be forced to have same-sex couples attend in weddings & receptions, which definitely has occurred in NH & DC. Keep calling me a liar. I really don't care. I'm only responding to correct any misperceptions. NOW GOOD-BYE!
Aegius 1 year ago
@Aegius
"institutions would be forced to have same-sex couples attend in weddings & receptions, which definitely has occurred in NH & DC."
THis is a lie.
You said "churches in MA" now you changed it to "NH and DC"
Same question- cite one instance, news story, or law where a church was/is forced to marry a gay couple.
You also didn't address the point churches already have tights to refuse marriage (jew/christian, catholic/pro choice politician) and ducked the examples I provided.
coward.
hipstermi 1 year ago
@hipstermi "You also didn't address the point churches already have tights to refuse marriage (jew/christian, catholic/pro choice politician) and ducked the examples I provided." Actually I think that churches may be forced to provide marriages for person's of other faiths. After all you can't discriminate on religion and anti-discrimination laws are severely prone to abuse. Ever heard of the lawsuit against Hooters by more than 1000 men to be waiters?
Aegius 1 year ago
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@hipstermi Here is the question that I responded to:
@Aegius
So answer me this question as well...
why is it Conservatives always say "less government!" but you seem to want the government to rule in favor of banning gay marriage?"
Notice it did not specifically refer to MA alone, nor any specific legal aspect by itself alone, but to less government, which can & does refer to many things & I responded w/a series of items. If someone is lying here, it is u or maybe u forgot the original ?
Aegius 1 year ago
@Aegius
"Actually I think that churches may be forced to provide marriages for person's of other faiths"
Wrong. You are wrong. What you "think" is irrelevant to the actual laws.
This is why I asked you to CITE A LAW or instance a "church in MA was forced to marry gays". You cited Eharmony and an adoption...aka NOT churches.
So you are wrong. All this could have been avoided if you just cited what was asked of you...or admitted your could not do so.
hipstermi 1 year ago
@hipstermi
There are no laws that churches are forced to provide marriages for anyone.
However, if the laws are changed to recognize same sex marriage, then it would become illegal for churches to deny marrying someone. It would end up creating a case for "discrimination", civil rights infractions etc.
If same sex marriage becomes allowable by law, then Churches should be GUARANTEED the right without any judicial recourse to NOT marry people that go against their religious beliefs.
luv2tvl69 1 year ago
@luv2tvl69
"There are no laws that churches are forced to provide marriages for anyone.
However, if the laws are changed to recognize same sex marriage, then it would become illegal for churches to deny marrying someone"
That's conservative fear talk, not basis of truth.
The law says a Rabbi can refuse to marry a Jew to a Christian. Why doesnt your "discrimination" point work there? It's discrimination for me to NOT hire someone for being a Christian or Jew.
hipstermi 1 year ago
@hipstermi "That's conservative fear talk, not basis of truth." Wrong. It occurred in NJ & DC. From NPR: "DC: Yvonne Moore a lesbian sued her church for 250K for not allowing for a same-sex wedding. Other case: Ocean Grove, New Jersey: Harriet Bernstein and Luisa Paster filed the complaint June 19 with the state attorney general's office on the grounds of discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation."
Aegius 1 year ago
@Aegius
You lie.
1. A quick google search reveals Yvonne Moore sued Covenant Baptist Church ifor $250k in past donations after the ministers announced their plans to be inclusive & WELCOME gay unions. Shes like YOU.
I notice you never admit to being wrong...but there's no way around it now.
2. Harriet Bernstein and Luisa Paster sued a church over the use of public PAVILION, which gets public tax money. They were NOT asking the minister to marry them.
I caught both of your deceptions here
hipstermi 1 year ago
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Aegius 1 year ago
@hipstermi Anti-discrimination law in employment does pertain to religion, but there is no anti-discrimination law regarding religious affiliation in marriage. Hence your claim of religious affiliation is invalid as an analogy. If same sex marriage is implemented, then yes such anti-discrimination law does pertain to sexual preference by definition, but not to religious affiliation. AND DO NOT GIVE ME CRAP ABOUT MA!
Aegius 1 year ago
@luv2tvl69
"If same sex marriage becomes allowable by law, then Churches should be GUARANTEED the right without any judicial recourse to NOT marry people that go against their religious beliefs."
I agree!
I think you would find gay couples agree. So the Rev. at St. Goofus won't marry then, they go to Openminded Chapel down the street...or a court house.
At the courthouse our gay couple meets my example Christian/Jew couple who get rejected by Rabbi Grumpypants...
hipstermi 1 year ago
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Aegius 1 year ago
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Aegius 1 year ago
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Aegius 1 year ago