You make me realize that its almost more insulting to religious people to calmly explain that you understand why they're so ignorant than it is to present arguments that you falsely assume they'll understand.
@Nerd0042 I really don't know what works on religious people. I kind of expected at least a few of them to understand the point I was trying to make, but most of the people who commented just trotted out the "no true Christian" mantra. The rest took refuge in threats. So predictable.
@bennyjohnhampson I live in Oregon and I'm moving to Alberta, Canada--so it's quite a distance. I'll come to visit you as soon as I invent a teleporter. :-P
god does not exist its a made up story by brbarians wich wer not educated enough to give explanation to live now we can and religous people seem to have trouble with the truth because its to scary for them they are afraid of the void they might fall into
@flugelcue that is a very good argument... dear woman
its about the content not the form.... well thats most of the time the argument clueless bigots use when they have absolutly no case against the content of the message its a distracting from the real issue probably i speak and write you language better then most of your fellow countrymen i rest my case.
@flugelcue "I speak and write you language better then most of your fellow countrymen i rest my case."
I keep coming back to these statements and trying to decipher them. "My fellow countrymen?" Besides, who told you that "its about the content not the form"? Some forms of writing are so cumbersome and confusing that the content is obscured. Don't get me wrong--I might agree with you, if I could know what you are actually saying.
A man who spent his entire life mocking the living God of Israel will not go unpunished regardless of his good deeds. This cancer came to no surprise.
@KaraRvn “You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain." Do not play with Fire, If you choose to not believe that is your free choice but do not disrespect The God of Israel, ever.
I grew up in a family of all christians except myself and I remember how it felt to be told all of these stories about god and jesus and wondering to myself how they and indeed a huge portion of society, could be so blind to the brainwashing that was happening. On the subject of religion they all treated me like I had a disease for not believing, always saying they'd pray for me, etc. And now as an adult seeing it's still just as accepted, is sad. Religion breeds hate, division and intolerance.
To say that God is merely a personification of of our desires cannot be correct. If our goal in life is to attain perfection of desire then people who have found these qualities within their life with relationships and other endeavours would no longer accept God. But that is not the case. There are many people who are happily fulfilled with material pleasures who are still requiring of the idea.
@hdregmore Material pleasures have nothing to do with psychological desires, such as to be loved, to believe that one is right, etc. If you believe that the creator of the universe agrees with you about everything, there must be some satisfaction in that that is not material.
Besides, who said that "our goal in life is to attain perfection of desire?" Are you perhaps talking about Maslow's hierarchy of needs?
@KaraRvn Psychological desires are played out with material desires. The fact that they are not satiated is testament to a spiritual existence. Perfection of desire is always a persons goal in life. Whether that desire be knowledge, power, wealth or whatever. The desire is there. You cannot live without being desirous. Even an impersonalist has an objective desire of losing their individuality and becoming one with everything.
If you are saying that a god must exist because people who have everything they could ever want still want a god, I think you missed the point entirely.
@KaraRvn How so? You have stated that the need for God is a personification of a relationship desire. I have stated that similar desires can be fulfilled and yet people are still not ideally happy and continue to be desirous of God. This means that this desire is more than a simple psychological manifestation.
@hdregmore No, it just means that they want something else. All the relationships in the world can't give someone the feeling that the creator of the universe agrees with them in every respect; but the idea of your god can. "Relationship desire" is putting words in my mouth.
@KaraRvn Not sure that I understand what you mean. According to the vedas this world is an imperfect reflection of the spiritual world. The comparison is give of a banyan tree where we exist in the roots while the branches and leaves are above. It is not possible to have a perfect relationship with someone while we are under the illusion of materialism.
1. Any Christian who prays for another human's demise will go to Hell. It's against God's laws to pray for evil things. 2. If atheists don't believe in God or prayer then why care if a fanatic is praying for Hitchens to die if it's all BS anyway? 3. Why is it OK that Hitchens said Falwell should "go to hell if there is one" when Falwell died, but now Hitchens complains that Christians pray for him to go to Hell? BTW, those kind of prayers don't work.
I'm sorry but you don't know what I think or my relationship with God. God doesn't give people diseases, if you think that's what Christians think you are mistaken. God doesn't create disasters or diseases. Do you think Christians don't get cancer? Do you think Christians don't have bad things happen to them? I'm a nurse, I've studied science and diseases, and I'm a Christian. Christians are praying FOR Christopher, even HE knows that.
1. Any Christian who prays for another human's demise will go to Hell. It's against God's laws to pray for evil things. 2. If atheists don't believe in God or prayer then why care if a fanatic is praying for Hitchens to die if it's all BS anyway? 3. Why is it OK that Hitchens said Falwell should "go to hell if there is one" when Falwell died, but now Hitchens complains that Christians pray for him to go to Hell? BTW, those kind of prayers.
Such dramatic angst. Such adamant expounding. While I believe that God does not cause cancer, and while I agree that those who say He would are just exposing their own mean intentions, hasn't Hitchens himself blamed God and religion for all kinds of atrocities that were actually caused by human beings?
@tamething1 You're missing the point. People do bad things for all kinds of reasons, and religious conviction is one of them. Of course atrocities are caused by human beings.
@KaraRvn I fully get that. Does Hitchens? Were he to convince us all that God does not exist, would the atrocities stop? I suspect that those who "do bad things for all kinds of reasons," as you so well put it, would, if they did not have God to blame for their actions, just use any other convenient excuse they could come up with. God, and belief in God, is not the problem.
@KaraRvn I agree with you that religious conviction can be used by people as a reason for doing evil things. But it does not necessarily follow that religion "poisons everything"; that religion is itself - and universally - evil. Christ, for one, prescribed (and demonstrated) empathy, kindness, love, taking personal responsibility, and assisting others. His message is not to blame for the twisted mess some people make of it, and the evils they then do "because of" it.
@tamething1 That's a smokescreen. For example, people wouldn't burn African children as witches if they did not have a (Biblical) religious conviction that witches exist and are not to be "suffered to live." And no one would be saying so gleefully that Hitchens will burn and suffer if they did not believe in Hell.
@KaraRvn People who are that evil don't use "reason." They make excuses. Without the ridiculous notion that God is somehow to blame for their actions - a notion that is especially ridiculous because God tells them NOT to be evil - they would use any other excuses that their feeble thinking could give them.
@dustydirt I'm rather curious why you showed me that. That wasn't a good thing to witness, that was horrible. Claiming that your non-existence is staved off only by a mere lawyers trick is not only fucking stupid, it's downright evil. No benevolent god could or would ever do such a thing if he loved his creations. Thinking this kind of wicked shit is true is.... Not examining history. How is heaven different from Valhalla? Is heaven true or is Valhalla true? Explain why.
@dustydirt What if everyone is okay with the affair and no one cares except to be happy for their spouse? What if there were no lies and no deceptions about sex? Perhaps you're with your husband because you love and care for him as a companion and friend? And he cares for you in the same way? Why would that kind of love and affection be evil, or anyone else's business? I'm just theorizing here.
Maybe you should reacquire some lost grammar skills. Your lack of education is glaringly obvious.
@KaraRvn Sometimes it's fun battling trolls, but I see your point. It's just mental masturbation, really. By the way, I really enjoyed your video. I was horrified to learn that Christopher had cancer. I literally pulled a double take and said "What? No!" about six times before I believed her. So, thanks.
@GoodAvatar Thank you for the compliment on the video--and I know how it feels. I couldn't believe it at first that Hitchens has cancer. At least he is quite stoic and rational about it.
@KaraRvn He is, surprisingly so. I also liked how he's not hedging his bets, denies the cliche, refuses false comfort and accepts that he's almost certainly responsible for it. It's very sad, but there's something comforting knowing that he's behaving as he believed.
@GoodAvatar You put it in perfect words, Avatar. Thank you.
Since I've become an Atheist I've learned about a few people who faced death calmly and rationally; but Hitch really takes the cake in that department. It makes me determined to face my own death, when it comes, without blame and with complete courage--because I want to story of my death to be a inspiring one.
Taking responsibility and maintaining courage--he sets the example to live by.
@KaraRvn Too true. I especially enjoyed his commentary about 'battling cancer'. Leave it to Hitchens to attack the one cliche that gives people a heroic outlook on something so boring and placid. It's funny in a dark way that he behaves like this even now.
I've always wondered about that particular cliche... Surely not EVERYONE battled cancer bravely? Didn't some give in cowardly and then try to make deals with Satan written in goats blood or something?
@GoodAvatar Haha! Yes, in fact Patton Oswald, the comedian, has a great routine about that "battling cancer" and "attempting to summon a demon" thing.
@KaraRvn For good reason. It was blatant theft. As funny as he is, I really wish I could get behind Patton, but I could not possibly disagree with him more politically. Wherever the hell he's from, he's clearly a California style Democrat, with this creepy disdain for everyone who disagrees with him and the belief that Federal power CAN and SHOULD solve every problem.
I don't want to rag on him too hard, because I do like the guy, but I think he's wrong and obnoxiously wrong at that.
@dustydirt No absolutes? Where did that come from? I will admit that I don't get the concept of "sin," divorced as it is from actual laws or any form of suffering. Not only do its proponents claim that it can be inherited, but it includes such absurdities as working on weekends, eating shellfish, etc.
Maybe I should be clear--love all the sin you want, whatever on Earth that means. Just don't hurt anybody okay?
@odge99 You're welcome! I've had some interesting responses to this little rant of mine; from "great video" to "wtf is she talking about!" :-P And I wasn't even naked this time. XP
You are absolutely right. Compared with the Universe we are still smaller than an ant compared with the Moon. We are even more insignificant to the Cosmos than a microbe is to us. This, however, does not prevent people to think that we are so important that only a god could have created us. The desire to control others created religion but it was ego who created god.
@out2gtme You guys have GOT to get some new material. :-P Everyone claims to be the arbiter of what a "real Christian" is, but no one has the same definition. The term is meaningless.
What a pile of crap! I dont have enough time to decipher what you are saying - if you feel it is god's will that Hitch has cancer then that's bollocks! If, as I suspect, you are saying it is sad that nature has given him cancer or indeed it was initiated by his own behaviour then why not simply say that instead of wrapping the thing up in prophetic nonsensical language. You sound like some nutjob baptist preacher taking all day to say something that can be summed up in a few short sentences!
@bigguitar22 *shrugs* If you don't understand what I'm saying, I'm not sure what you expect me to do about that. But maybe rephrasing it will help--I'm tired of hearing Theists dance of the graves of people they don't like. And what makes it even worse is the assumptions that they make--the assumption that if THEY hate someone, the creator of the universe must also. "Personal God" indeed.
this is pitiful babble, and an insult to Hitchen's clarity. rationality is an excellent dimension of human nature. spiritual practice and seeking can explore rationally. There are also non-rational fields of experience. There are practices of silence and stillness that can take you beyond what is exemplified by this cluttered mental chatter.
@DonnachaMackManus I'm not quite sure what you mean, but I do agree that Hitchens is more eloquent than I am. And I also agree that rationality is important, though emotion is also part of the human experience.
Where do our rights as human beings come from? Are they determined by the state or whoever is in power at a said time. What happens when the state falls? Do those right as human beings change? Do our rights depend on what the current government states or do those right come from something greater -- Natural Law given by God?
Miss KaraRvn, what you said was incredibly insightful and sensitive. Hitchens' could not have said it any better. People always portray god in their own image. They are always anthropomorphizing god and personifying him in the human realm to the point where it is as if humans were his grand opus in this jaw dropping universe.
I have just created a twitter account and I am publicizing the username and password so that anyone who wants to may access the account and post a message to Hitchens.
@drocloce *laughs* I'll try not to forget to breathe! It's interesting what a variety of responses this video has gotten, and I pretty much threw it together in a single angry huff. :-P
I've become an atheist, and I feel even more worthless than I ever did! Scince becoming an atheist I've realized just how pointless and meaningless eveything is! Dawkins thinks the world is beautiful?... Good for him; he's got a big bank account; the world would look pretty fuckin' beautitful to me too if I was as rich as him! Reality check - I just wanna kill myself. Where is this light and freedom you guys are always banging on about?
@BloodOfRayne The freedom and light that you mention comes from a life well lived; time devoted to meaningful tasks and beloved people. I recommend reading "Demon Haunted World" by Carl Sagan, and "Man's Search for Meaning" by Victor E. Frankl. If you want them in audiobook feel free to send me a PM.
Any worldview being altered can be disturbing. If you are sincere, I think that you will find the metaphorical "light at the end of the tunnel" soon.
Even if Hitchens had lived to age 105 and died of natural causes in old age, Christians would still claim that God was punishing him. We all die. Sadly it is Hitchens' turn. His cancer is very understandable through science. He is the first to admit that.
@DelinquentlySenile GOD WINS! The voice of Hitchens will soon be no more than the sound of flatulance from the end of a plastic pipe! A fitting end for this PERVERT!!
@DelinquentlySenile oh dear still upset about losing your idol? This is what PERVERTS like Hitchens get when they mess with the Catholic church! Couldn't happen to a nicer chap!!
@DelinquentlySenile ahh poor little atheist! Hitchens was an anti-catholic bigot who made a career from spreading malicious lies and fabrications about the actholic church! I won't be sheding any tears when this pervert meets his maker!
@turd: Hitchens turned his ire on the Catholic Church, one, bc of it's bigotry and two, bc of its sadism, towards children no less!! You call him a pervert, I call you a projectionist, taking what the Catholic church, and inevitably you, are guilty of bc of your own guilt and shame over being a pervert!
I think that truth is the highest goal we can achieve.Truth determines which gods, if any, are real. Not the other way around.
Claiming to know the will of a supernatural being in your head and expecting to be unquestioned even though millions of other people say the same AND claim to hear different things from it--THAT is relativism writ large. I think it is also evil.
@KaraRvn this is why God established a Church to put all the moral relativists opinions into check and order. God did not create us to leave us wandering around aimlessly. His plan is for us to spend eternity with him in heaven. He gave us the Church to lead us through the Bible and our lives. Life on this earth is short. We have very little time to make good use of it. So there is only one truth and we do know that Truth -- Jesus Christ.
@KaraRvn What is not working? Do you mean our "laws" which say it is ok for a mother to kill her child? Do you mean marriages because most couples use contraception, causing husbands to use their wives only for sexual pleasure? Do you mean the schools b/c of their willingness to pass out condoms, leading to increased sexual activing and teeen pregnancy as oppossed to teaching abstinence? You are rignt, life without God does not work. Don't blame God, Blame poor choices for the problems....
@Catholicdadof4 *laughs* I mean it's not working because everyone has conflicting ideas of what God wants. If there is a God, he seems to be a poor communicator. And you didn't answer my question. Was he present at the Council of Nicaea?
@KaraRvn What you are refering to is moral relativism and there is only one truth. The conlficting ideas have no affect on what is True. For example, if you board a plan heading for NY and mistakely think you are going to LA, you are still going to NY despite what error you think. Of course God was present at the Council of Nicea. What is your point?
Good video, Kara. Christianity trains people to be callous from the time they're children. If you can accept that God was right to commit genocide (the fable of Noah's Ark) and order the deaths of first-born children (Moses), then it's a small step to say that Christopher Hitchens' cancer is a just punishment from God.
@keeblergraham21 God is loving and merciful. Sometimes God allows bad things happen to us to bring us to repentance, for our own good. God causes no evil...Why do you blame God for the death of the first borns in Egypt, yet ignore the Pharaoh's hardened heart and pride?How about the suffering the Israelites caused the Egyptians for 400 years as slaves?Should they not have been freed? We suffer because of our choices.God does not rule from a mighty throne. He served, he forgave, he suffered too.
@Catholicdadof4 The god of the Bible doens't just "allow bad things to happen to us"; he's much more proactive. You forget that God himself hardened the Pharoah's heart before ordering the mass murder of innocent first-born children that had nothing to do with the Pharoah's pride or the subjugation of the Israelites. Couldn't he find a just and humane way to free the slaves? He is, after all, God. Also, would a loving and merciful being commit genocide as God did in "Noah's Ark"?
@keeblergraham21sadly you do not know "the God of the Bible."God did not harden anyones heart.God gives us FREE WILL.It us who chose life or death. Convenietly, who ignore the 400 years of persecution, slavery and abuse the Israelites suffered for 400 years.God warned the Pharoah with 10 plagues. Finally,after refusing to listen,God did what was necessary to free his people. Our God is a God of the lowly, poor, depsterate;not of the arrogant. He does not force you to love him.It's your choice.
@Catholicdadof4 Check Exodus 4:21 and 7:3-6 and you’ll see that God did indeed harden the Pharoah’s heart. Indeed, not only did God make it more unlikely that the Pharoah would release the Israelites, he also ordered the murder of innocent first-born children who had nothing to do with the Pharoah’s decision. That being said, the “free will” chestnut is nonsense because the option of death and then torture in Hell is the proverbial gun to the head.
@keeblergraham21 Do you truly believe you cannot make your own choices right now and God is directing your every move? That is nonsense. If he is directing you, what is stopping him from making you drop to your knees right now and praise him? God gives us grace and we have the freedom to accept or deny that grace. All the glory goes to him with our cooperation. This is found all through Sacred Scripture. You are imposing your own opionion which is not truth.
@Catholicdadof4 So much for not bearing false witness, huh? You wrongfully claimed that God didn’t harden the Pharoah’s heart as the Bible plainly (and repeatedly) states, but instead of admitting error you resort to accusing ME of lying about scripture. Also, you know full well I never claimed God directs our every move. That notion is just a straw man you invented to avoid the question of why a loving and forgiving god would even present the option of being tortured forever in Hell.
@keeblergraham21 My friend, go back and read Genesis in your Bible.God's plan was for us to be happy and not to experience pain, suffering, death.Notice how the serpent tempted Eve and she and Adam sinned. Notice how after they sinned they were embarrassed being naked b/c they new they were not looking at each others body purely (like when God first created them). Their original sin transferred to all of us. The God News is God promised a savior -- Jesus. it's your choice.
@Catholicdadof4 The Doctrine of Original Sin is just as mean-spirited as the Doctrine of Hell. After all, Eve didn’t say no to God. She disobeyed him because she and her husband were two people with no real life experience up against Satan, an expert con artist. You don’t need God’s omniscience to know that they never stood a chance. But you do need God’s twisted sense of justice to believe it was fair to condemn not only them but all of their progeny to death and/or eternal torture.
@Catholicdadof4 No, being angry at God is just as pointless as being angry with the Easter Bunny. I was a Christian for many years, which is why I seem to know the Bible better than you do. Then, I was an agnostic. Now, I'm an atheist.
@keeblergraham21 Bishop Fulton Sheen once said, you can't have prohibition without alcohol, no smoking laws without cigarettes and atheism without a God. I hope you find peace on your journey and come back home to Christ. He is longing to have you back. Peace!
@Catholicdadof4 Bishop Sheen must’ve failed the analogy section on his SAT. My faith broke when I took Christianity seriously and wrestled with the very questions you’ve evaded here with your sloganeering. I rejected the immorality of condemning good people to burn for the “crime” of disbelieving things not in evidence. Since much of Christianity was cobbled together from older pagan lore and since Jesus himself may have been an amalgam, I’m just thankful to be free from that mind trap.
@keeblergraham21 It is immoral for me NOT to warn you of what you are chosing for all eternity. The reality my friend is you have no evidence to prove there is no God. It is more reasonable to believe in the existence of God than no God at all. It is also more reasonable to believe you have a lot more to lose than me when our short lives are all said and done. Peace be to you.
@Catholicdadof4 Sorry, but Logic 101 dictates that the burden of proof is on you, the one making the assertion that a) not only is there a god running the universe, but b) it’s a very specific god offering a hideous choice between loving his invisible self or being tortured forever. A loving god would understand that this and the hackneyed tales in the Bible are too much to swallow, especially now when science offers more plausible explanations about evolution and other natural phenomenon.
@keeblergraham21 Logic 101? Anyone with logic would see it is impossible for the sun, moon, star and human beings to just appear on this earth without a creator. Logic 101 dictates that the the computer you read this very note was created by someone and just did not appear in the store one day. You sound like a wimp and sissy when you say the events in the Bible are too much to swallow...Be a man!The events in the Bible should make your stronger so you can endure the trials in life.
@Catholicdadof4 First, let’s not forget that freethinkers like me are the ones risking hellfire, not conformists like you. So it’s foolish to equate natural skepticism with being cowardly or effeminate. Second, Stephen Hawking, a scientist well respected for his logic, just said that the universe didn’t need a divine creator. This lets you off the hook because the idea that everything has a maker demands that you ask, “Who created God”?
@keeblergraham21 You are correct, you are the one risking hellfire for all eterninty. Since you profess to be a Bible expert, you know the Israelites kept breaking the covenants God made with them -- they complained in the desert, worshipped false idols and doubted his presence. He gave them land and a great Kingdom all of which they squander by their sins. Despite all this he never abandoned them. Likewise, he will never abandone you. His mercy endures forever. Peace!
@Catholicdadof4 I never claimed to be a “Bible expert”. It just seems I’m more familiar with it, which isn't saying much. Indeed, it’s common for ex-Christians to pour through religious texts desperately looking for reasons to believe or disbelieve. It takes courage to be honest and risk alienation, but many find that life is better without divisive superstition. Here, for instance, I’m not the one obliged to reconcile a “loving” god with genocide by flood or the threat of eternal torture.
@keeblergraham21 google,"Jesus of the Scars," a poem by Edward Shillito.He survived the evils of WWI and wrote about his encounter with Christ. His description of God suffering gives great meaning to our suffering.He wrote, our God was weak while the other gods were strong, they rode, while ours stumbled to a throne.The God of the OT is the same God, who allowed his only Son, the Lord Jesus to die for us.There's no greater love than to die for ones friends.Our God is Love.Peace be to you!
@Catholicdadof4 Thanks for the recommendation. I admit I have a tin ear for poetry, but “Jesus of the Scars” reminds me of how much Christians take their worldview for granted. Ever wonder what kind of being needs to see his own son killed just so he can forgive and spare the lives of those he professes to love regardless? Is this rational? Also, if you’ve committed an offense punishable by death, is it moral to allow an innocent man to die in your place? Please answer “yes” or “no”.
@keeblergraham21 I can see from your perspective of "no heaven" not wanting to givie up your life. But for me, the answer is Yes. This is excatly what Jesus did for you and me. Many of the Saints did this very act of love too. St. Maximillam Koble asked to die in place of a fellow prisoner who had children in Austuwich. Father Damian gave his life caring for the lepors of Haiwia (sp?). The list goes on and on...We are called to give up ourselves for a much greater eternal reward.
@Catholicdadof4 Nice dodge. Yes, it’s noble to give one’s life for others, and non-Christians have also made this sacrifice -without the comfort of thinking they’ll go to some five-star hotel in the sky as a reward. Nevertheless, what kind of being needs to see his own son killed just to forgive and spare the lives of those he professes to love regardless? Is this rational? Also, if you’ve committed an offense punishable by death, is it moral to allow an innocent man to die in your place?
@keeblergraham21 To revisit your question again, I must answer with the book of Genesis, in the beginning, and Adam and Eve' s fall. They made a choice to disobey God but he did not abandon them. He promised to send them a Savior Jesus Christ. Because of all our sins, we suffer in this world -- sickness, anger, death.....Jesus came into the word to die. To SHOW US how we sould handle our suffering, how we should pick up our cross, how we should forgive and how we too will rise. God is love.
@keeblergraham21 cont...to answer your last question, is it moral to allow an innocent man to die in a guilty man's place? The answer is "yes" if it is for the sake of the Gospel. However, if it not for the sake of Gopel it would be done in vein and worthless. An example, of "yes" would be the story in the news recently of a brother giving his kidney to his brother and dying from complications. An example of "no" would be dying for Sadam Hussein so he can continue his evil works. Peace! Ted
@Catholicdadof4 Your answers are examples of moral relativism as you fail to hold your god and gospel to the same standards expected of others. When loved ones offend you, personally, do you need to send your own child to be killed just to forgive them? No, that’d be criminally insane. If I’ve committed a capital offense, then it’d be immoral for me to allow an innocent man to die in my place. Yet, Christians celebrate such injustice as their Get Outta Hell Free Card ®.
@keeblergraham21 Thirdly, Since I answered your questions, please answer my one question -- what would be the motivation of a non-Christian, who does not believe in the afterlife and thinks once he dies he will simply sleep forever, to give up his life for someone?
I have no doubt an atheist mother would brave traffic to save her child just as quickly as a Christian mom would. Nonbelievers have long risked life and limb for love, democracy, freedom, civil rights and other ideals they value more than their own existence. Some people don’t need the carrot of heaven or the stick of hell to manipulate or motivate them. Some people, including some Christians, are morally mature enough to do good simply because it’s the right thing to do.
@keeblergraham21 I suppose now you know why God who has nothing to gain, doesn't need you or me, is perfectly happy in heaven without us decided to come down to earth, show us how to love and die for us.He's our Father and he loves us.Since you brought up civil rights, who decides civil rights?Is it the gov't which has authority or it is a natural law every human being with good will should follow?If you say natural law, they who is the law giver?If gov't is law giver, what if the gov't falls?
@Catholicdadof4 “He’s our father, and he loves us.” Please. If you knew a father who drowned many of his kids in a flood (“Noah’s Ark”) and who offered his surviving kids a choice between loving him and allowing them to die and burn, you’d call DCFS. I know I would. That being said, I doubt any individual grants civil rights. They’re protections that we, a democratic republic, agree upon, and when our government fails us it’s our duty to fix it.
@keeblergraham21 You say it is our duty to fix it if it fails. How do we base what needs to be fixed? Where does that moral code get its origin? Does majority rule and determine what is right? These are very important questions.
@Catholicdadof4 The golden rule existed ages before Christianity was invented. Even ancient humans were social animals and could thus appreciate the impracticality of wronging those who helped the tribe survive. Eventually, each culture codified what works for a functional society, and there you have the origin of our morality and our laws. We’re still codifying, by the way. In the US, a lot of us just decided that affordable health care is a right.
You make me realize that its almost more insulting to religious people to calmly explain that you understand why they're so ignorant than it is to present arguments that you falsely assume they'll understand.
Nerd0042 4 months ago
@Nerd0042 I really don't know what works on religious people. I kind of expected at least a few of them to understand the point I was trying to make, but most of the people who commented just trotted out the "no true Christian" mantra. The rest took refuge in threats. So predictable.
KaraRvn 4 months ago
Your voice is like a female Sam Harris. Except somehow more calm.
Nerd0042 4 months ago
@Nerd0042 Aw, thank you!
KaraRvn 4 months ago
you're gorgeous ;)
bennyjohnhampson 4 months ago
@bennyjohnhampson Thanks! :-)
KaraRvn 4 months ago
@bennyjohnhampson Would you like to visit Greenwich with me sometime? I live there. Abit random. But you never know? ;)
bennyjohnhampson 4 months ago
@bennyjohnhampson I live in Oregon and I'm moving to Alberta, Canada--so it's quite a distance. I'll come to visit you as soon as I invent a teleporter. :-P
KaraRvn 4 months ago
Looking at the comments by these christians....It reminds me why I am not one!
Democrate4Life 4 months ago
god does not exist its a made up story by brbarians wich wer not educated enough to give explanation to live now we can and religous people seem to have trouble with the truth because its to scary for them they are afraid of the void they might fall into
flugelcue 8 months ago
@flugelcue Dude...meet my good friend, punctuation. :-P
KaraRvn 8 months ago
@flugelcue that is a very good argument... dear woman
its about the content not the form.... well thats most of the time the argument clueless bigots use when they have absolutly no case against the content of the message its a distracting from the real issue probably i speak and write you language better then most of your fellow countrymen i rest my case.
flugelcue 8 months ago
@flugelcue "I speak and write you language better then most of your fellow countrymen i rest my case."
I keep coming back to these statements and trying to decipher them. "My fellow countrymen?" Besides, who told you that "its about the content not the form"? Some forms of writing are so cumbersome and confusing that the content is obscured. Don't get me wrong--I might agree with you, if I could know what you are actually saying.
KaraRvn 4 months ago
@flugelcue
its about the content not the form....
flugelcue 8 months ago
A man who spent his entire life mocking the living God of Israel will not go unpunished regardless of his good deeds. This cancer came to no surprise.
ZionistIDF 9 months ago
@ZionistIDF Now that's a guy who sleeps with a shotgun under his bed.
KaraRvn 9 months ago
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@KaraRvn “You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain." Do not play with Fire, If you choose to not believe that is your free choice but do not disrespect The God of Israel, ever.
ZionistIDF 9 months ago
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@ZionistIDF fuck you and your god.
ragnarthelibrarian 9 months ago
@ZionistIDF your not worth anything
Democrate4Life 4 months ago
I agre with you, just wondering if the emotions and tears are real though ?
realist326 9 months ago
@realist326 Yes.
KaraRvn 9 months ago
this video has really made me tired and gave me unnessecery tension.
abuladula 11 months ago
@abuladula Maybe you need to get laid? :-P
KaraRvn 9 months ago
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i am so tired...
abuladula 11 months ago
I dont know whats worse, the people you rightly complain about or the sound quality of your video.
siegfriedfreud1984 1 year ago
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Hitchens gave himself cancer.
Mr88playmaker 1 year ago
I grew up in a family of all christians except myself and I remember how it felt to be told all of these stories about god and jesus and wondering to myself how they and indeed a huge portion of society, could be so blind to the brainwashing that was happening. On the subject of religion they all treated me like I had a disease for not believing, always saying they'd pray for me, etc. And now as an adult seeing it's still just as accepted, is sad. Religion breeds hate, division and intolerance.
Damienf77 1 year ago
There is no God. Hope this helps.
bodnotbod 1 year ago
get well mr hitchens fuck god
islamophobe75 1 year ago
go eat someone's pussy you DIKE
dhide14 1 year ago
can't wait to piss on his grave!!!!! Can't wait for him to be ass fucked by Hitler for eternity!!
dhide14 1 year ago
@dhide14 By thinking like that then if the fairytale you believe in is true.... then you'll be joining him...FOOL
graemec 1 year ago
To say that God is merely a personification of of our desires cannot be correct. If our goal in life is to attain perfection of desire then people who have found these qualities within their life with relationships and other endeavours would no longer accept God. But that is not the case. There are many people who are happily fulfilled with material pleasures who are still requiring of the idea.
hdregmore 1 year ago
@hdregmore Material pleasures have nothing to do with psychological desires, such as to be loved, to believe that one is right, etc. If you believe that the creator of the universe agrees with you about everything, there must be some satisfaction in that that is not material.
Besides, who said that "our goal in life is to attain perfection of desire?" Are you perhaps talking about Maslow's hierarchy of needs?
KaraRvn 1 year ago
@KaraRvn Psychological desires are played out with material desires. The fact that they are not satiated is testament to a spiritual existence. Perfection of desire is always a persons goal in life. Whether that desire be knowledge, power, wealth or whatever. The desire is there. You cannot live without being desirous. Even an impersonalist has an objective desire of losing their individuality and becoming one with everything.
hdregmore 1 year ago
@hdregmore That's a restatement, not an answer.
If you are saying that a god must exist because people who have everything they could ever want still want a god, I think you missed the point entirely.
KaraRvn 1 year ago
@KaraRvn How so? You have stated that the need for God is a personification of a relationship desire. I have stated that similar desires can be fulfilled and yet people are still not ideally happy and continue to be desirous of God. This means that this desire is more than a simple psychological manifestation.
hdregmore 1 year ago
@hdregmore No, it just means that they want something else. All the relationships in the world can't give someone the feeling that the creator of the universe agrees with them in every respect; but the idea of your god can. "Relationship desire" is putting words in my mouth.
KaraRvn 1 year ago
@KaraRvn Not sure that I understand what you mean. According to the vedas this world is an imperfect reflection of the spiritual world. The comparison is give of a banyan tree where we exist in the roots while the branches and leaves are above. It is not possible to have a perfect relationship with someone while we are under the illusion of materialism.
hdregmore 1 year ago
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Just a couple of points:
1. Any Christian who prays for another human's demise will go to Hell. It's against God's laws to pray for evil things. 2. If atheists don't believe in God or prayer then why care if a fanatic is praying for Hitchens to die if it's all BS anyway? 3. Why is it OK that Hitchens said Falwell should "go to hell if there is one" when Falwell died, but now Hitchens complains that Christians pray for him to go to Hell? BTW, those kind of prayers don't work.
evi3lynni3 1 year ago
I'm sorry but you don't know what I think or my relationship with God. God doesn't give people diseases, if you think that's what Christians think you are mistaken. God doesn't create disasters or diseases. Do you think Christians don't get cancer? Do you think Christians don't have bad things happen to them? I'm a nurse, I've studied science and diseases, and I'm a Christian. Christians are praying FOR Christopher, even HE knows that.
evi3lynni3 1 year ago
@evi3lynni3 Because every Christian is just like you? You only need to look at the sidebar to find some of them gloating.
KaraRvn 1 year ago
@KaraRvn Just a couple of points:
1. Any Christian who prays for another human's demise will go to Hell. It's against God's laws to pray for evil things. 2. If atheists don't believe in God or prayer then why care if a fanatic is praying for Hitchens to die if it's all BS anyway? 3. Why is it OK that Hitchens said Falwell should "go to hell if there is one" when Falwell died, but now Hitchens complains that Christians pray for him to go to Hell? BTW, those kind of prayers.
evi3lynni3 1 year ago
@evi3lynni3 *whoosh* That's the sound of my own point flying over your head. :-P
Seriously, I didn't even mention prayer. That's all you.
The reality is that I find it disgusting when people give credit to their personal god for tragic events.
KaraRvn 1 year ago
@evi3lynni3
",,,Hitchens complains that Christians pray for him to go to Hell?"
That is a filthy lie.
You also misquote what Hitchens said above.
You are a typical religious bigot and liar. I spit on your filthy religion.
This World will indeed be a better place when ALL religions eventually fade away.
The Fundies are losing, and they know it, so they scream ever loudly.
Science and Reason are a fatal poison for which your sadomasochistic religion has no antidote. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
AGNOSSI 1 year ago
@AGNOSSI Surely science and reason is the cure, not the poison.
tiamonke 7 months ago
Such dramatic angst. Such adamant expounding. While I believe that God does not cause cancer, and while I agree that those who say He would are just exposing their own mean intentions, hasn't Hitchens himself blamed God and religion for all kinds of atrocities that were actually caused by human beings?
tamething1 1 year ago
@tamething1 You're missing the point. People do bad things for all kinds of reasons, and religious conviction is one of them. Of course atrocities are caused by human beings.
KaraRvn 1 year ago
@KaraRvn I fully get that. Does Hitchens? Were he to convince us all that God does not exist, would the atrocities stop? I suspect that those who "do bad things for all kinds of reasons," as you so well put it, would, if they did not have God to blame for their actions, just use any other convenient excuse they could come up with. God, and belief in God, is not the problem.
tamething1 1 year ago
@tamething1 It is, because of the psychological properties of the "God concept." I address this in another video.
KaraRvn 1 year ago
@KaraRvn I agree with you that religious conviction can be used by people as a reason for doing evil things. But it does not necessarily follow that religion "poisons everything"; that religion is itself - and universally - evil. Christ, for one, prescribed (and demonstrated) empathy, kindness, love, taking personal responsibility, and assisting others. His message is not to blame for the twisted mess some people make of it, and the evils they then do "because of" it.
tamething1 1 year ago
@tamething1 That's a smokescreen. For example, people wouldn't burn African children as witches if they did not have a (Biblical) religious conviction that witches exist and are not to be "suffered to live." And no one would be saying so gleefully that Hitchens will burn and suffer if they did not believe in Hell.
KaraRvn 1 year ago
@KaraRvn People who are that evil don't use "reason." They make excuses. Without the ridiculous notion that God is somehow to blame for their actions - a notion that is especially ridiculous because God tells them NOT to be evil - they would use any other excuses that their feeble thinking could give them.
tamething1 1 year ago
@tamething1 That's one way to defend belief--claim it has no impact on anything.
KaraRvn 1 year ago
@KaraRvn Belief has an enormous impact.
tamething1 1 year ago
@tamething1 Belief has an enormous impact, but it can't drive people to do evil things?
KaraRvn 1 year ago
kara, why are you deleting all my responses?
what a whack job.
watch out people, she a deleter.
dustydirt 1 year ago
@dustydirt Nah, I finally figured out you're a troll. Go hide back under the bridge. :-P
KaraRvn 1 year ago
@dustydirt "In the Halls of Valhalla, where the brave may live forever!"
- The 13th Warrior
GoodAvatar 1 year ago
@dustydirt I'm rather curious why you showed me that. That wasn't a good thing to witness, that was horrible. Claiming that your non-existence is staved off only by a mere lawyers trick is not only fucking stupid, it's downright evil. No benevolent god could or would ever do such a thing if he loved his creations. Thinking this kind of wicked shit is true is.... Not examining history. How is heaven different from Valhalla? Is heaven true or is Valhalla true? Explain why.
GoodAvatar 1 year ago
@dustydirt Eh, sue me, I was cranky. :-)
GoodAvatar 1 year ago
@dustydirt Don't feed the troll.
GoodAvatar 1 year ago
dogs get cancer, but i;m sure that they don;t believe in god. so all this talk about god causing cancer or whatever is null and void!
MrRdub7162 1 year ago
@MrRdub7162 *laughs* I know. It's just people taking credit for his cancer that kind of had me pissed off.
KaraRvn 1 year ago
@dustydirt What if everyone is okay with the affair and no one cares except to be happy for their spouse? What if there were no lies and no deceptions about sex? Perhaps you're with your husband because you love and care for him as a companion and friend? And he cares for you in the same way? Why would that kind of love and affection be evil, or anyone else's business? I'm just theorizing here.
Maybe you should reacquire some lost grammar skills. Your lack of education is glaringly obvious.
GoodAvatar 1 year ago
@GoodAvatar Just ignore it; Dusty is a troll.
KaraRvn 1 year ago
@KaraRvn Sometimes it's fun battling trolls, but I see your point. It's just mental masturbation, really. By the way, I really enjoyed your video. I was horrified to learn that Christopher had cancer. I literally pulled a double take and said "What? No!" about six times before I believed her. So, thanks.
GoodAvatar 1 year ago
@GoodAvatar Thank you for the compliment on the video--and I know how it feels. I couldn't believe it at first that Hitchens has cancer. At least he is quite stoic and rational about it.
KaraRvn 1 year ago
@KaraRvn He is, surprisingly so. I also liked how he's not hedging his bets, denies the cliche, refuses false comfort and accepts that he's almost certainly responsible for it. It's very sad, but there's something comforting knowing that he's behaving as he believed.
GoodAvatar 1 year ago
@GoodAvatar You put it in perfect words, Avatar. Thank you.
Since I've become an Atheist I've learned about a few people who faced death calmly and rationally; but Hitch really takes the cake in that department. It makes me determined to face my own death, when it comes, without blame and with complete courage--because I want to story of my death to be a inspiring one.
Taking responsibility and maintaining courage--he sets the example to live by.
KaraRvn 1 year ago
@KaraRvn Too true. I especially enjoyed his commentary about 'battling cancer'. Leave it to Hitchens to attack the one cliche that gives people a heroic outlook on something so boring and placid. It's funny in a dark way that he behaves like this even now.
I've always wondered about that particular cliche... Surely not EVERYONE battled cancer bravely? Didn't some give in cowardly and then try to make deals with Satan written in goats blood or something?
Anyway, it's still encouraging to see.
GoodAvatar 1 year ago
@GoodAvatar Haha! Yes, in fact Patton Oswald, the comedian, has a great routine about that "battling cancer" and "attempting to summon a demon" thing.
KaraRvn 1 year ago
@KaraRvn For good reason. It was blatant theft. As funny as he is, I really wish I could get behind Patton, but I could not possibly disagree with him more politically. Wherever the hell he's from, he's clearly a California style Democrat, with this creepy disdain for everyone who disagrees with him and the belief that Federal power CAN and SHOULD solve every problem.
I don't want to rag on him too hard, because I do like the guy, but I think he's wrong and obnoxiously wrong at that.
GoodAvatar 1 year ago
@dustydirt No absolutes? Where did that come from? I will admit that I don't get the concept of "sin," divorced as it is from actual laws or any form of suffering. Not only do its proponents claim that it can be inherited, but it includes such absurdities as working on weekends, eating shellfish, etc.
Maybe I should be clear--love all the sin you want, whatever on Earth that means. Just don't hurt anybody okay?
KaraRvn 1 year ago
Perfect. Thank you.
odge99 1 year ago
@odge99 You're welcome! I've had some interesting responses to this little rant of mine; from "great video" to "wtf is she talking about!" :-P And I wasn't even naked this time. XP
KaraRvn 1 year ago
oh boy... is she going to yell leave britney alone? it kinda looked like that at the end
the best way to become an atheist is by reading the entire bible!
themaniusedtob 1 year ago
You are absolutely right. Compared with the Universe we are still smaller than an ant compared with the Moon. We are even more insignificant to the Cosmos than a microbe is to us. This, however, does not prevent people to think that we are so important that only a god could have created us. The desire to control others created religion but it was ego who created god.
segrob07 1 year ago
per·son·i·fy.. per·son·i·fy (p r-s n -f ). tr.v. per·son·i·fied, per·son·i·fy·ing, per·son·i·fies..
TheAfterLifeNow 1 year ago
Jesus is dead.Humans are repugnant!
russcd1 1 year ago
@russcd1 Humans are...many things, I think. Certainly emotional. This video has been an interesting experiment.
KaraRvn 1 year ago
I couldn't even finish this irrational babble.
curmudgeon20071 1 year ago
is that the shower running in the background that I hear?
lahainatwins 1 year ago
You don't get it.
vesperus1981 1 year ago
No! Real Christians are praying that he gets well ! Religious assholes are praying for people to die !
out2gtme 1 year ago
@out2gtme You guys have GOT to get some new material. :-P Everyone claims to be the arbiter of what a "real Christian" is, but no one has the same definition. The term is meaningless.
KaraRvn 1 year ago 4
@KaraRvn It don't take a smart person to judge between love and hate. :)
out2gtme 1 year ago
@KaraRvn u very intellegent woman. i totally agree with what u said
islamophobe75 1 year ago
@KaraRvn The "no true Scotsman fallacy." Haha, I find that one easy to ignore.
sk8tafrnk 1 year ago
@out2gtme True Scotsmen drink Sotch Whisky.
Samuraionthewall 1 year ago 8
@dustydirt You love your sin, whatever that means...
That has nothing to do with what Theists are saying about Hitchens, but okay. Whatever blows your skirt up. :-P
KaraRvn 1 year ago
What a pile of crap! I dont have enough time to decipher what you are saying - if you feel it is god's will that Hitch has cancer then that's bollocks! If, as I suspect, you are saying it is sad that nature has given him cancer or indeed it was initiated by his own behaviour then why not simply say that instead of wrapping the thing up in prophetic nonsensical language. You sound like some nutjob baptist preacher taking all day to say something that can be summed up in a few short sentences!
bigguitar22 1 year ago
@bigguitar22 *shrugs* If you don't understand what I'm saying, I'm not sure what you expect me to do about that. But maybe rephrasing it will help--I'm tired of hearing Theists dance of the graves of people they don't like. And what makes it even worse is the assumptions that they make--the assumption that if THEY hate someone, the creator of the universe must also. "Personal God" indeed.
KaraRvn 1 year ago
this is pitiful babble, and an insult to Hitchen's clarity. rationality is an excellent dimension of human nature. spiritual practice and seeking can explore rationally. There are also non-rational fields of experience. There are practices of silence and stillness that can take you beyond what is exemplified by this cluttered mental chatter.
DonnachaMackManus 1 year ago
@DonnachaMackManus I'm not quite sure what you mean, but I do agree that Hitchens is more eloquent than I am. And I also agree that rationality is important, though emotion is also part of the human experience.
KaraRvn 1 year ago
Where do our rights as human beings come from? Are they determined by the state or whoever is in power at a said time. What happens when the state falls? Do those right as human beings change? Do our rights depend on what the current government states or do those right come from something greater -- Natural Law given by God?
Catholicdadof4 1 year ago
@Catholicdadof4 It's the same as Euthphro's dilemma. Look it up.
KaraRvn 1 year ago
Miss KaraRvn, what you said was incredibly insightful and sensitive. Hitchens' could not have said it any better. People always portray god in their own image. They are always anthropomorphizing god and personifying him in the human realm to the point where it is as if humans were his grand opus in this jaw dropping universe.
leptismagna10 1 year ago
@leptismagna10 Thank you leptis, I appreciate it. :-)
KaraRvn 1 year ago
@flexicon1996 XD Maybe?
KaraRvn 1 year ago
@DyerVaper Thank you! I've been trying to flesh out my views on the psychology of religion; I'm glad this got it across at least a little.
KaraRvn 1 year ago
I have just created a twitter account and I am publicizing the username and password so that anyone who wants to may access the account and post a message to Hitchens.
user: tweethitch
password: hitch22
emeryemery 1 year ago
I do think that theism is inferior.
J0EH3AD 1 year ago
Brava!
Well said.
'cept: Don't forget to breathe!
^_^
drocloce 1 year ago
@drocloce *laughs* I'll try not to forget to breathe! It's interesting what a variety of responses this video has gotten, and I pretty much threw it together in a single angry huff. :-P
KaraRvn 1 year ago
Mental
bluntman007 1 year ago
I've become an atheist, and I feel even more worthless than I ever did! Scince becoming an atheist I've realized just how pointless and meaningless eveything is! Dawkins thinks the world is beautiful?... Good for him; he's got a big bank account; the world would look pretty fuckin' beautitful to me too if I was as rich as him! Reality check - I just wanna kill myself. Where is this light and freedom you guys are always banging on about?
BloodOfRayne 1 year ago
@BloodOfRayne The freedom and light that you mention comes from a life well lived; time devoted to meaningful tasks and beloved people. I recommend reading "Demon Haunted World" by Carl Sagan, and "Man's Search for Meaning" by Victor E. Frankl. If you want them in audiobook feel free to send me a PM.
Any worldview being altered can be disturbing. If you are sincere, I think that you will find the metaphorical "light at the end of the tunnel" soon.
KaraRvn 1 year ago
Even if Hitchens had lived to age 105 and died of natural causes in old age, Christians would still claim that God was punishing him. We all die. Sadly it is Hitchens' turn. His cancer is very understandable through science. He is the first to admit that.
canadianplanter 1 year ago
@canadianplanter Yes, he is very brave and rational in the face of his cancer. Seeing the recent interviews with him calmed me down quite a lot.
KaraRvn 1 year ago
Hicthens cancer is a MIRACLE from the pope! Ha ha ha Benedict 1 - Hitchens 0
turdbogbuster 1 year ago
@turdbogbuster You're a sad excuse for a human. Crawl into a corner and kill yourself.
DelinquentlySenile 1 year ago
@DelinquentlySenile GOD WINS! The voice of Hitchens will soon be no more than the sound of flatulance from the end of a plastic pipe! A fitting end for this PERVERT!!
turdbogbuster 1 year ago
@turdbogbuster Your mother must be so proud of you.
DelinquentlySenile 1 year ago
@turdbogbuster Were you sexually abused as a child or didn't you go to church?
DelinquentlySenile 1 year ago
@DelinquentlySenile oh dear still upset about losing your idol? This is what PERVERTS like Hitchens get when they mess with the Catholic church! Couldn't happen to a nicer chap!!
turdbogbuster 1 year ago
@turdbogbuster I'm almost speechless, you're even more of a cunt than I originally thought and that's fucking saying something.
DelinquentlySenile 1 year ago
@DelinquentlySenile ahh poor little atheist! Hitchens was an anti-catholic bigot who made a career from spreading malicious lies and fabrications about the actholic church! I won't be sheding any tears when this pervert meets his maker!
turdbogbuster 1 year ago
@turd: Hitchens turned his ire on the Catholic Church, one, bc of it's bigotry and two, bc of its sadism, towards children no less!! You call him a pervert, I call you a projectionist, taking what the Catholic church, and inevitably you, are guilty of bc of your own guilt and shame over being a pervert!
Burn in Hell!!
SpookeyR 1 year ago
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SpookeyR 1 year ago
Chris is dyin' of cancer and I won't work at Mcdonalds, dammit! D:
BloodOfRayne 1 year ago
I ain't gonna be a cunt workin' at Mcdonalds!
BloodOfRayne 1 year ago
Another moral relativist giving her opinon of what she thinks is truth..Truth is Truth is Truth...
God does not cause evil...God allows evil...God is all good. God does not create evil. We create evil ourselves.....Evil is the absence of God.
Catholicdadof4 1 year ago
@Catholicdadof4 Moral relativist?
I think that truth is the highest goal we can achieve.Truth determines which gods, if any, are real. Not the other way around.
Claiming to know the will of a supernatural being in your head and expecting to be unquestioned even though millions of other people say the same AND claim to hear different things from it--THAT is relativism writ large. I think it is also evil.
KaraRvn 1 year ago
@KaraRvn this is why God established a Church to put all the moral relativists opinions into check and order. God did not create us to leave us wandering around aimlessly. His plan is for us to spend eternity with him in heaven. He gave us the Church to lead us through the Bible and our lives. Life on this earth is short. We have very little time to make good use of it. So there is only one truth and we do know that Truth -- Jesus Christ.
Catholicdadof4 1 year ago
@Catholicdadof4 Obviously it's not working. Was your god also present at the Council of Nicea?
KaraRvn 1 year ago
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Catholicdadof4 1 year ago
@KaraRvn What is not working? Do you mean our "laws" which say it is ok for a mother to kill her child? Do you mean marriages because most couples use contraception, causing husbands to use their wives only for sexual pleasure? Do you mean the schools b/c of their willingness to pass out condoms, leading to increased sexual activing and teeen pregnancy as oppossed to teaching abstinence? You are rignt, life without God does not work. Don't blame God, Blame poor choices for the problems....
Catholicdadof4 1 year ago
@Catholicdadof4 *laughs* I mean it's not working because everyone has conflicting ideas of what God wants. If there is a God, he seems to be a poor communicator. And you didn't answer my question. Was he present at the Council of Nicaea?
KaraRvn 1 year ago
@KaraRvn What you are refering to is moral relativism and there is only one truth. The conlficting ideas have no affect on what is True. For example, if you board a plan heading for NY and mistakely think you are going to LA, you are still going to NY despite what error you think. Of course God was present at the Council of Nicea. What is your point?
Catholicdadof4 1 year ago
@Catholicdadof4
and God created that framework - (cause I really don't think people did.....THINK)
fastfootedone 1 year ago
@fastfootedone I am missing your point....
Catholicdadof4 1 year ago
Good video, Kara. Christianity trains people to be callous from the time they're children. If you can accept that God was right to commit genocide (the fable of Noah's Ark) and order the deaths of first-born children (Moses), then it's a small step to say that Christopher Hitchens' cancer is a just punishment from God.
keeblergraham21 1 year ago
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Catholicdadof4 1 year ago
@keeblergraham21 God is loving and merciful. Sometimes God allows bad things happen to us to bring us to repentance, for our own good. God causes no evil...Why do you blame God for the death of the first borns in Egypt, yet ignore the Pharaoh's hardened heart and pride?How about the suffering the Israelites caused the Egyptians for 400 years as slaves?Should they not have been freed? We suffer because of our choices.God does not rule from a mighty throne. He served, he forgave, he suffered too.
Catholicdadof4 1 year ago
@Catholicdadof4 The god of the Bible doens't just "allow bad things to happen to us"; he's much more proactive. You forget that God himself hardened the Pharoah's heart before ordering the mass murder of innocent first-born children that had nothing to do with the Pharoah's pride or the subjugation of the Israelites. Couldn't he find a just and humane way to free the slaves? He is, after all, God. Also, would a loving and merciful being commit genocide as God did in "Noah's Ark"?
keeblergraham21 1 year ago
@keeblergraham21sadly you do not know "the God of the Bible."God did not harden anyones heart.God gives us FREE WILL.It us who chose life or death. Convenietly, who ignore the 400 years of persecution, slavery and abuse the Israelites suffered for 400 years.God warned the Pharoah with 10 plagues. Finally,after refusing to listen,God did what was necessary to free his people. Our God is a God of the lowly, poor, depsterate;not of the arrogant. He does not force you to love him.It's your choice.
Catholicdadof4 1 year ago
@Catholicdadof4 Check Exodus 4:21 and 7:3-6 and you’ll see that God did indeed harden the Pharoah’s heart. Indeed, not only did God make it more unlikely that the Pharoah would release the Israelites, he also ordered the murder of innocent first-born children who had nothing to do with the Pharoah’s decision. That being said, the “free will” chestnut is nonsense because the option of death and then torture in Hell is the proverbial gun to the head.
keeblergraham21 1 year ago
@keeblergraham21 Do you truly believe you cannot make your own choices right now and God is directing your every move? That is nonsense. If he is directing you, what is stopping him from making you drop to your knees right now and praise him? God gives us grace and we have the freedom to accept or deny that grace. All the glory goes to him with our cooperation. This is found all through Sacred Scripture. You are imposing your own opionion which is not truth.
Catholicdadof4 1 year ago
@Catholicdadof4 So much for not bearing false witness, huh? You wrongfully claimed that God didn’t harden the Pharoah’s heart as the Bible plainly (and repeatedly) states, but instead of admitting error you resort to accusing ME of lying about scripture. Also, you know full well I never claimed God directs our every move. That notion is just a straw man you invented to avoid the question of why a loving and forgiving god would even present the option of being tortured forever in Hell.
keeblergraham21 1 year ago
@keeblergraham21 My friend, go back and read Genesis in your Bible.God's plan was for us to be happy and not to experience pain, suffering, death.Notice how the serpent tempted Eve and she and Adam sinned. Notice how after they sinned they were embarrassed being naked b/c they new they were not looking at each others body purely (like when God first created them). Their original sin transferred to all of us. The God News is God promised a savior -- Jesus. it's your choice.
Catholicdadof4 1 year ago
@Catholicdadof4 The Doctrine of Original Sin is just as mean-spirited as the Doctrine of Hell. After all, Eve didn’t say no to God. She disobeyed him because she and her husband were two people with no real life experience up against Satan, an expert con artist. You don’t need God’s omniscience to know that they never stood a chance. But you do need God’s twisted sense of justice to believe it was fair to condemn not only them but all of their progeny to death and/or eternal torture.
keeblergraham21 1 year ago
@keeblergraham21 Quick question....are you an atheist, agnostic or just plain angry at God?
Catholicdadof4 1 year ago
@Catholicdadof4 No, being angry at God is just as pointless as being angry with the Easter Bunny. I was a Christian for many years, which is why I seem to know the Bible better than you do. Then, I was an agnostic. Now, I'm an atheist.
keeblergraham21 1 year ago
@keeblergraham21 Bishop Fulton Sheen once said, you can't have prohibition without alcohol, no smoking laws without cigarettes and atheism without a God. I hope you find peace on your journey and come back home to Christ. He is longing to have you back. Peace!
Catholicdadof4 1 year ago
@Catholicdadof4 Bishop Sheen must’ve failed the analogy section on his SAT. My faith broke when I took Christianity seriously and wrestled with the very questions you’ve evaded here with your sloganeering. I rejected the immorality of condemning good people to burn for the “crime” of disbelieving things not in evidence. Since much of Christianity was cobbled together from older pagan lore and since Jesus himself may have been an amalgam, I’m just thankful to be free from that mind trap.
keeblergraham21 1 year ago
@keeblergraham21 It is immoral for me NOT to warn you of what you are chosing for all eternity. The reality my friend is you have no evidence to prove there is no God. It is more reasonable to believe in the existence of God than no God at all. It is also more reasonable to believe you have a lot more to lose than me when our short lives are all said and done. Peace be to you.
Catholicdadof4 1 year ago
@Catholicdadof4 Sorry, but Logic 101 dictates that the burden of proof is on you, the one making the assertion that a) not only is there a god running the universe, but b) it’s a very specific god offering a hideous choice between loving his invisible self or being tortured forever. A loving god would understand that this and the hackneyed tales in the Bible are too much to swallow, especially now when science offers more plausible explanations about evolution and other natural phenomenon.
keeblergraham21 1 year ago
@keeblergraham21 Logic 101? Anyone with logic would see it is impossible for the sun, moon, star and human beings to just appear on this earth without a creator. Logic 101 dictates that the the computer you read this very note was created by someone and just did not appear in the store one day. You sound like a wimp and sissy when you say the events in the Bible are too much to swallow...Be a man!The events in the Bible should make your stronger so you can endure the trials in life.
Catholicdadof4 1 year ago
@Catholicdadof4 First, let’s not forget that freethinkers like me are the ones risking hellfire, not conformists like you. So it’s foolish to equate natural skepticism with being cowardly or effeminate. Second, Stephen Hawking, a scientist well respected for his logic, just said that the universe didn’t need a divine creator. This lets you off the hook because the idea that everything has a maker demands that you ask, “Who created God”?
keeblergraham21 1 year ago
@keeblergraham21 You are correct, you are the one risking hellfire for all eterninty. Since you profess to be a Bible expert, you know the Israelites kept breaking the covenants God made with them -- they complained in the desert, worshipped false idols and doubted his presence. He gave them land and a great Kingdom all of which they squander by their sins. Despite all this he never abandoned them. Likewise, he will never abandone you. His mercy endures forever. Peace!
Catholicdadof4 1 year ago
@Catholicdadof4 I never claimed to be a “Bible expert”. It just seems I’m more familiar with it, which isn't saying much. Indeed, it’s common for ex-Christians to pour through religious texts desperately looking for reasons to believe or disbelieve. It takes courage to be honest and risk alienation, but many find that life is better without divisive superstition. Here, for instance, I’m not the one obliged to reconcile a “loving” god with genocide by flood or the threat of eternal torture.
keeblergraham21 1 year ago
@keeblergraham21 google,"Jesus of the Scars," a poem by Edward Shillito.He survived the evils of WWI and wrote about his encounter with Christ. His description of God suffering gives great meaning to our suffering.He wrote, our God was weak while the other gods were strong, they rode, while ours stumbled to a throne.The God of the OT is the same God, who allowed his only Son, the Lord Jesus to die for us.There's no greater love than to die for ones friends.Our God is Love.Peace be to you!
Catholicdadof4 1 year ago
@Catholicdadof4 Thanks for the recommendation. I admit I have a tin ear for poetry, but “Jesus of the Scars” reminds me of how much Christians take their worldview for granted. Ever wonder what kind of being needs to see his own son killed just so he can forgive and spare the lives of those he professes to love regardless? Is this rational? Also, if you’ve committed an offense punishable by death, is it moral to allow an innocent man to die in your place? Please answer “yes” or “no”.
keeblergraham21 1 year ago
@keeblergraham21 I can see from your perspective of "no heaven" not wanting to givie up your life. But for me, the answer is Yes. This is excatly what Jesus did for you and me. Many of the Saints did this very act of love too. St. Maximillam Koble asked to die in place of a fellow prisoner who had children in Austuwich. Father Damian gave his life caring for the lepors of Haiwia (sp?). The list goes on and on...We are called to give up ourselves for a much greater eternal reward.
Catholicdadof4 1 year ago
@Catholicdadof4 Nice dodge. Yes, it’s noble to give one’s life for others, and non-Christians have also made this sacrifice -without the comfort of thinking they’ll go to some five-star hotel in the sky as a reward. Nevertheless, what kind of being needs to see his own son killed just to forgive and spare the lives of those he professes to love regardless? Is this rational? Also, if you’ve committed an offense punishable by death, is it moral to allow an innocent man to die in your place?
keeblergraham21 1 year ago
@keeblergraham21 To revisit your question again, I must answer with the book of Genesis, in the beginning, and Adam and Eve' s fall. They made a choice to disobey God but he did not abandon them. He promised to send them a Savior Jesus Christ. Because of all our sins, we suffer in this world -- sickness, anger, death.....Jesus came into the word to die. To SHOW US how we sould handle our suffering, how we should pick up our cross, how we should forgive and how we too will rise. God is love.
Catholicdadof4 1 year ago
@keeblergraham21 cont...to answer your last question, is it moral to allow an innocent man to die in a guilty man's place? The answer is "yes" if it is for the sake of the Gospel. However, if it not for the sake of Gopel it would be done in vein and worthless. An example, of "yes" would be the story in the news recently of a brother giving his kidney to his brother and dying from complications. An example of "no" would be dying for Sadam Hussein so he can continue his evil works. Peace! Ted
Catholicdadof4 1 year ago
@Catholicdadof4 Your answers are examples of moral relativism as you fail to hold your god and gospel to the same standards expected of others. When loved ones offend you, personally, do you need to send your own child to be killed just to forgive them? No, that’d be criminally insane. If I’ve committed a capital offense, then it’d be immoral for me to allow an innocent man to die in my place. Yet, Christians celebrate such injustice as their Get Outta Hell Free Card ®.
keeblergraham21 1 year ago
@keeblergraham21 Thirdly, Since I answered your questions, please answer my one question -- what would be the motivation of a non-Christian, who does not believe in the afterlife and thinks once he dies he will simply sleep forever, to give up his life for someone?
Catholicdadof4 1 year ago
@Catholicdadof4
I have no doubt an atheist mother would brave traffic to save her child just as quickly as a Christian mom would. Nonbelievers have long risked life and limb for love, democracy, freedom, civil rights and other ideals they value more than their own existence. Some people don’t need the carrot of heaven or the stick of hell to manipulate or motivate them. Some people, including some Christians, are morally mature enough to do good simply because it’s the right thing to do.
keeblergraham21 1 year ago
@keeblergraham21 I suppose now you know why God who has nothing to gain, doesn't need you or me, is perfectly happy in heaven without us decided to come down to earth, show us how to love and die for us.He's our Father and he loves us.Since you brought up civil rights, who decides civil rights?Is it the gov't which has authority or it is a natural law every human being with good will should follow?If you say natural law, they who is the law giver?If gov't is law giver, what if the gov't falls?
Catholicdadof4 1 year ago
@Catholicdadof4 “He’s our father, and he loves us.” Please. If you knew a father who drowned many of his kids in a flood (“Noah’s Ark”) and who offered his surviving kids a choice between loving him and allowing them to die and burn, you’d call DCFS. I know I would. That being said, I doubt any individual grants civil rights. They’re protections that we, a democratic republic, agree upon, and when our government fails us it’s our duty to fix it.
keeblergraham21 1 year ago
@keeblergraham21 You say it is our duty to fix it if it fails. How do we base what needs to be fixed? Where does that moral code get its origin? Does majority rule and determine what is right? These are very important questions.
Catholicdadof4 1 year ago
@Catholicdadof4 The golden rule existed ages before Christianity was invented. Even ancient humans were social animals and could thus appreciate the impracticality of wronging those who helped the tribe survive. Eventually, each culture codified what works for a functional society, and there you have the origin of our morality and our laws. We’re still codifying, by the way. In the US, a lot of us just decided that affordable health care is a right.
keeblergraham21 1 year ago