Making comparisons like one group is better than another does a disservice to the music, the musicians, and the art. That's not what music is about, man.
Nice to see these guys back at it. Romantic Warrior is still one of my favourite albums. Yes, Weather Report are great as well and I love the albums I have from them, but comparisons are pointless. I like 'em both Jazzfan 1. And I suspect, so do you.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
cute. weather report and jaco make these guys look like amateurs. Everytime I hear Jaco solo on Havana, its an instant orgasm. Since there will be no WR reunion, we have to settle for the second greatest fusion group. And the second or third greatest bass player.
Haha... I'am not sure who is the second or third greatest bass player your talking about. But as for Stanley... he should be considered the greatest bass player in any one's opinion. I've seen them "all" numerous times since 1977 and there is just no comparison with Stanley. Weather Report and RTF are both great Jazz Fusion bands of our times!
Being from the Philly area, I have had the opportunity to check Clarke out quite a few times. Although at times, he is unquestionably brilliant, he can also be quite self absorbed and non-creative. I believe Ron Carter coined the term "media hero". On my list, Clarke is third behind Jaco and Mingus. Although Clarke may be the most multi faceted bass player, he is neither the greatest on upright, nor electric. Young players such as Victor Wooten have reached heights that Clarke simply cannot.
Jazzfan1, I truly enjoyed your cogent and reflective response to Stanley, but I must tremendously disagree. Yeah, I remember reading the same 1977 front cover Downbeat Magazine article on Clarke entitled "The Big Man with the Big Bass" when Ron Carter called Stanley a media hero.
Although I was only about thirteen years of age then I thought that was an unfortunate statement. As Stanley replied to Ron's statement "If Ron would get of his ass and start kicking ass he too could be a media hero". I too highly respect the playing and musicianship of Jaco and Mingus.
I think Jaco's Havana (Weather Report) bass solo is one of the most beautiful solo's I've heard, but I think after his first solo album his playing did develop vastly beyond those early years (76, 77 and 78). His influence on fretless bass is unquestionable, but as a "total" bass player Jaco was not as complete or talented as Stanley.
In my opinion Stanely, technically, lyrically and melodically has brought and advanced the instrument commercially and non-commercially beyond any other to date including any of the new bass gods. Stanley's, ability to be multi-facetted (electric and upright) (Jazz, Jazz-fusion, Classical Rock, Funk-R&B, Popular etc.) is what makes him so unquestionably brilliant.
Well I appreciate your enthusiasm, but I must disagree. Clarke has been playing and recycling the same chords for years. Anyone who can read knows this. On stage he resorts to tricks such as strumming the upright and slight of hand to mask his lack of creativity. "Stanley Clarke" was a great album, but he will never approach that again.
I even saw that Vertu foolishness. Joke. Why I bet you even like Clarke's God awful vocal work. Kid your jazz ear will develop, stop listening to Najee.
Allright kid you win. Everyone has a groupie, and your one of Clarke's. You probably never heard of Marcus Miller or Alphonso Johnson. Check them out. Listening to a guy named Billy Cobham will also help ur ear develop. If I can help, just let me know.
After 35 plus years I have yet hear those beautiful lighting fast chops displayed by others, although I think Wotten is pushing the envelope technically in a different. Also, keep in mind that the bass unlike the horn, piano or drums can be a non-exciting instrument in the wrong hands, so as a bass soloist you have to create a little showmanship and attitude at times. I have no problems with it as long as the music intent stays in perspective.
Damn man, get a life. Go find a woman or something. Your probably some disgruntled Hillary Clinton supporter who now has nothing to do. You living in DC, last time I was there I met a hot young white girl. That's what you need to cool your ass off. And what kind of a name is Shango. Are you a part of some freaky religion? God Bless America, you can be whatever you want to, but you need to find Sweet Jesus. I bet ur a little fat nerd, trying to be cocky, in person, I dont think u would be.
Man, you seem like a funny dude that like's to have fun and laugh, but you started this shit. By the way I have a nice lady, but this probably why am crazy in the first place...hahaha... As for Jesus man I left that 20 years ago when I started to learn my culutral history and not someone elses imposed ideas, but that's another topic. Anytime you want to discuss music let me know. I've got to get some work done...Peace.
Ron should have been off practicing the electric, because he sounded like a first year freshman beginner on the electric. If bass players had to use Ron's example for the electric bass, the instrument would still be in the stone ages. John Patitucci is probably the only one that comes close to doubling the way Stanley does. When Stanley is playing extremely hard and serious technical bass, his phrasing, lyrical and melodic approach is brilliantly unmatched.
Ron should have been off practicing the electric, because he sounded like a first year freshman beginner on the electric. If bass players had to use Ron's example for the electric bass, the instrument would still be in the stone ages. John Patitucci is probably the only one that comes close to doubling the way Stanley does. When Stanley is playing extremely hard and serious technical bass, his phrasing, lyrical and melodic approach is brilliantly unmatched.
As you are aware "School Days" was and still is the only true bass anthem to date. As great as all the players mentioned above are "no" one could or can equally go back and forth between acoustic and electric with such virtuosity. No disrespect to Ron Carter, but have you listened to some of the Creed Taylor (CTI) sessions with him on electric bass and he had the nerve to call Stanley a "media hero" in 77".
. On the electric (Jazz side) from Chuck Rainey, Stanley, Jaco, Alphonso Johnson, Anthony Jackson, Mark King to Marcus Miller, Victor Bailey, Victor Wotten, Mathew Garrison I admire as well. In my personnel opinion between all these great players, Stanley has technically, musically and commercially brought the instrument to a point of liberation more than any other. He single handily started the 70's bass revolution as you pointed out with the album "Stanley Clarke".
. On the electric (Jazz side) from Chuck Rainey, Stanley, Jaco, Alphonso Johnson, Anthony Jackson, Mark King to Marcus Miller, Victor Bailey, Victor Wotten, Mathew Garrison I admire as well. In my personnel opinion between all these great players, Stanley has technically, musically and commercially brought the instrument to a point of liberation more than any other. He single handily started the 70's bass revolution as you pointed out with the album "Stanley Clarke".
So if your trying categorize me as a Najee listener then you have fallen off a tree and bumped your head! Although I've never played an instrument and don't read score sheets, the bass and its history has always been my listening passion. On the acoustic bass from Charles Mingus, Ray Brown, Scott La Faro, to Ron Carter, Paul Chamber, Jimmy Garrison or Dave Holland, Eddie Gomez, Charlie Hadden I all admire.
That means I started out listening to the likes of Weather Report, RTF, Mahavishnu Orchestra, Pat Matheny, Jean-Luc Ponty, Cobham, Larry Correl, Wayne, Herbie, Tony, Freddie Hubbard, Flora, Airto and then moved into Straight-ahead i.e. Coltrane, Monk, Bird, Miles, Ellington, McCoy Tyner, Ray Brown, Pharoah Sanders, Roy Haynes, Bud Powell...etc.
(Kid!)... Pop's just to establish a fundamental and philosophical basis for our intellectual musical discourse about the bass I am 45 years old and begin my introduction into the genre of Jazz and "Fusion" when I was about 9 years old through my older brother.
Have I heard Alphonso Johnson, is this the bass player from Philly. Yeah, he has three solo bass albums from the 70's - Moonshadows, Spelldound and Yesterday's Dreams. He played in Weather Report's band before Jaco and later joined the Biily Cobham/George Duke Band . In the 70's did a lot of work with Flora/Airto and George Duke. Later joined Santana's group. Played frettless bass before Jaco become known.
It's plain to see Jazzfan sole purpose for listening to music is to rate and compare it not to listen to it.Let the music be what it is KID and just enjoy it.Weather Report and Jaco (R.I.P) had a huge respect for RTF and if you are a true "jazz fan" you would to.
Pops. Many people make comparisons in sports, politics etc... I have seen numerous jazz comparisons made in Downbeat and Jazziz. I think it makes for interesting conversation and tests ones jazz knowledge. And I don't remember hearing anyone ask for your comment.
Yea son, but those comparisons are from respected professionals who offer more than just novice and shallow opinions.Now why don't you take a little break from the chat room and bring yourself up to speed and listen "Outside of The Box"...Oh and play The Return To Forever Albums (CD's) i know you own more than "The Romantic Warrior" Right? Don't skip through them or you will miss the whole vision.Happy Listening Son
Go find another video to hassle people about. I posted this to share with other RTF fans......... and You don't seem to be one. Also the lack of respect you show for others is beyond what I can take. So........ you are now blocked from making further comments.
wow, shows that even the most professional musicians still need improvement at times.
too much compression also. everywhere.
samiegfunk1 3 years ago
all theyre doin is checkin out the sound at that venue. and that is their song "dayride."
ejlarsonstratford 2 years ago
Just saw them on miami beach and they have restored my love for music
Obelisk2290 3 years ago
Did they sound-check with the audience present ?? Ha ha, the whole vibe (in the band) is just so chilled. Chick is just sooooooo laid back.
monsterjazzlicks 3 years ago
Your right and I'm wrong. It is spelled Havona. But I'm entitled to my opinion "Dickhead". Did I spell that right??
jazzfan1 3 years ago
Making comparisons like one group is better than another does a disservice to the music, the musicians, and the art. That's not what music is about, man.
jongreek 3 years ago 2
wow,thanks for enlightening me man. and now that im so enlightened, im gonna go hit my bong and compare my toes and not the music. thanks again, man.
jazzfan1 3 years ago
Oh, good. Another convert.
jongreek 3 years ago
Nice to see these guys back at it. Romantic Warrior is still one of my favourite albums. Yes, Weather Report are great as well and I love the albums I have from them, but comparisons are pointless. I like 'em both Jazzfan 1. And I suspect, so do you.
stevevanderhorst 3 years ago 3
Yes, Steve I do. Thank you for being the voice of reason. And thank God for giving us all "big ears" so we can appreciate this phenomenal art form.
jazzfan1 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
cute. weather report and jaco make these guys look like amateurs. Everytime I hear Jaco solo on Havana, its an instant orgasm. Since there will be no WR reunion, we have to settle for the second greatest fusion group. And the second or third greatest bass player.
jazzfan1 3 years ago
Haha... I'am not sure who is the second or third greatest bass player your talking about. But as for Stanley... he should be considered the greatest bass player in any one's opinion. I've seen them "all" numerous times since 1977 and there is just no comparison with Stanley. Weather Report and RTF are both great Jazz Fusion bands of our times!
ShangoDC 3 years ago
Being from the Philly area, I have had the opportunity to check Clarke out quite a few times. Although at times, he is unquestionably brilliant, he can also be quite self absorbed and non-creative. I believe Ron Carter coined the term "media hero". On my list, Clarke is third behind Jaco and Mingus. Although Clarke may be the most multi faceted bass player, he is neither the greatest on upright, nor electric. Young players such as Victor Wooten have reached heights that Clarke simply cannot.
jazzfan1 3 years ago
Jazzfan1, I truly enjoyed your cogent and reflective response to Stanley, but I must tremendously disagree. Yeah, I remember reading the same 1977 front cover Downbeat Magazine article on Clarke entitled "The Big Man with the Big Bass" when Ron Carter called Stanley a media hero.
ShangoDC 3 years ago
Although I was only about thirteen years of age then I thought that was an unfortunate statement. As Stanley replied to Ron's statement "If Ron would get of his ass and start kicking ass he too could be a media hero". I too highly respect the playing and musicianship of Jaco and Mingus.
ShangoDC 3 years ago
I think Jaco's Havana (Weather Report) bass solo is one of the most beautiful solo's I've heard, but I think after his first solo album his playing did develop vastly beyond those early years (76, 77 and 78). His influence on fretless bass is unquestionable, but as a "total" bass player Jaco was not as complete or talented as Stanley.
ShangoDC 3 years ago
In my opinion Stanely, technically, lyrically and melodically has brought and advanced the instrument commercially and non-commercially beyond any other to date including any of the new bass gods. Stanley's, ability to be multi-facetted (electric and upright) (Jazz, Jazz-fusion, Classical Rock, Funk-R&B, Popular etc.) is what makes him so unquestionably brilliant.
ShangoDC 3 years ago
Well I appreciate your enthusiasm, but I must disagree. Clarke has been playing and recycling the same chords for years. Anyone who can read knows this. On stage he resorts to tricks such as strumming the upright and slight of hand to mask his lack of creativity. "Stanley Clarke" was a great album, but he will never approach that again.
I even saw that Vertu foolishness. Joke. Why I bet you even like Clarke's God awful vocal work. Kid your jazz ear will develop, stop listening to Najee.
jazzfan1 3 years ago
Allright kid you win. Everyone has a groupie, and your one of Clarke's. You probably never heard of Marcus Miller or Alphonso Johnson. Check them out. Listening to a guy named Billy Cobham will also help ur ear develop. If I can help, just let me know.
jazzfan1 3 years ago
After 35 plus years I have yet hear those beautiful lighting fast chops displayed by others, although I think Wotten is pushing the envelope technically in a different. Also, keep in mind that the bass unlike the horn, piano or drums can be a non-exciting instrument in the wrong hands, so as a bass soloist you have to create a little showmanship and attitude at times. I have no problems with it as long as the music intent stays in perspective.
ShangoDC 3 years ago
Damn man, get a life. Go find a woman or something. Your probably some disgruntled Hillary Clinton supporter who now has nothing to do. You living in DC, last time I was there I met a hot young white girl. That's what you need to cool your ass off. And what kind of a name is Shango. Are you a part of some freaky religion? God Bless America, you can be whatever you want to, but you need to find Sweet Jesus. I bet ur a little fat nerd, trying to be cocky, in person, I dont think u would be.
jazzfan1 3 years ago
Man, you seem like a funny dude that like's to have fun and laugh, but you started this shit. By the way I have a nice lady, but this probably why am crazy in the first place...hahaha... As for Jesus man I left that 20 years ago when I started to learn my culutral history and not someone elses imposed ideas, but that's another topic. Anytime you want to discuss music let me know. I've got to get some work done...Peace.
ShangoDC 3 years ago 3
Ron should have been off practicing the electric, because he sounded like a first year freshman beginner on the electric. If bass players had to use Ron's example for the electric bass, the instrument would still be in the stone ages. John Patitucci is probably the only one that comes close to doubling the way Stanley does. When Stanley is playing extremely hard and serious technical bass, his phrasing, lyrical and melodic approach is brilliantly unmatched.
ShangoDC 3 years ago
Ron should have been off practicing the electric, because he sounded like a first year freshman beginner on the electric. If bass players had to use Ron's example for the electric bass, the instrument would still be in the stone ages. John Patitucci is probably the only one that comes close to doubling the way Stanley does. When Stanley is playing extremely hard and serious technical bass, his phrasing, lyrical and melodic approach is brilliantly unmatched.
ShangoDC 3 years ago
As you are aware "School Days" was and still is the only true bass anthem to date. As great as all the players mentioned above are "no" one could or can equally go back and forth between acoustic and electric with such virtuosity. No disrespect to Ron Carter, but have you listened to some of the Creed Taylor (CTI) sessions with him on electric bass and he had the nerve to call Stanley a "media hero" in 77".
ShangoDC 3 years ago 2
. On the electric (Jazz side) from Chuck Rainey, Stanley, Jaco, Alphonso Johnson, Anthony Jackson, Mark King to Marcus Miller, Victor Bailey, Victor Wotten, Mathew Garrison I admire as well. In my personnel opinion between all these great players, Stanley has technically, musically and commercially brought the instrument to a point of liberation more than any other. He single handily started the 70's bass revolution as you pointed out with the album "Stanley Clarke".
ShangoDC 3 years ago
. On the electric (Jazz side) from Chuck Rainey, Stanley, Jaco, Alphonso Johnson, Anthony Jackson, Mark King to Marcus Miller, Victor Bailey, Victor Wotten, Mathew Garrison I admire as well. In my personnel opinion between all these great players, Stanley has technically, musically and commercially brought the instrument to a point of liberation more than any other. He single handily started the 70's bass revolution as you pointed out with the album "Stanley Clarke".
ShangoDC 3 years ago
So if your trying categorize me as a Najee listener then you have fallen off a tree and bumped your head! Although I've never played an instrument and don't read score sheets, the bass and its history has always been my listening passion. On the acoustic bass from Charles Mingus, Ray Brown, Scott La Faro, to Ron Carter, Paul Chamber, Jimmy Garrison or Dave Holland, Eddie Gomez, Charlie Hadden I all admire.
ShangoDC 3 years ago
That means I started out listening to the likes of Weather Report, RTF, Mahavishnu Orchestra, Pat Matheny, Jean-Luc Ponty, Cobham, Larry Correl, Wayne, Herbie, Tony, Freddie Hubbard, Flora, Airto and then moved into Straight-ahead i.e. Coltrane, Monk, Bird, Miles, Ellington, McCoy Tyner, Ray Brown, Pharoah Sanders, Roy Haynes, Bud Powell...etc.
ShangoDC 3 years ago
(Kid!)... Pop's just to establish a fundamental and philosophical basis for our intellectual musical discourse about the bass I am 45 years old and begin my introduction into the genre of Jazz and "Fusion" when I was about 9 years old through my older brother.
ShangoDC 3 years ago
Have I heard Alphonso Johnson, is this the bass player from Philly. Yeah, he has three solo bass albums from the 70's - Moonshadows, Spelldound and Yesterday's Dreams. He played in Weather Report's band before Jaco and later joined the Biily Cobham/George Duke Band . In the 70's did a lot of work with Flora/Airto and George Duke. Later joined Santana's group. Played frettless bass before Jaco become known.
ShangoDC 3 years ago
It's plain to see Jazzfan sole purpose for listening to music is to rate and compare it not to listen to it.Let the music be what it is KID and just enjoy it.Weather Report and Jaco (R.I.P) had a huge respect for RTF and if you are a true "jazz fan" you would to.
trufuzionshow 3 years ago
Pops. Many people make comparisons in sports, politics etc... I have seen numerous jazz comparisons made in Downbeat and Jazziz. I think it makes for interesting conversation and tests ones jazz knowledge. And I don't remember hearing anyone ask for your comment.
jazzfan1 3 years ago
Yea son, but those comparisons are from respected professionals who offer more than just novice and shallow opinions.Now why don't you take a little break from the chat room and bring yourself up to speed and listen "Outside of The Box"...Oh and play The Return To Forever Albums (CD's) i know you own more than "The Romantic Warrior" Right? Don't skip through them or you will miss the whole vision.Happy Listening Son
trufuzionshow 3 years ago
Go find another video to hassle people about. I posted this to share with other RTF fans......... and You don't seem to be one. Also the lack of respect you show for others is beyond what I can take. So........ you are now blocked from making further comments.
UraDawgSon 3 years ago
Sorry folks... jazzfan1 will now be blocked from further comments.
UraDawgSon 3 years ago
yup yup i stand by you bro
7caesar7 2 years ago
esta es verdadera musica no pendejadas, que lastima que estos grandes del jazz no se animaron a traer su magia a Mexico
flafo914 3 years ago