TZM: Jacques Fresco admits there will be violence in the transition

[pulifric]

You are simply making no point at all,i watched the videos and you are just trying to oppose something without bringing something better to the table,you are a stupid fuck.

[pulifric]

gradual evolution is what will eventually happen because you can not have a selfsufficient society without great evolution of the way people think and that is just not possible,at least not in the near future.People just don't stop being selfish all of a sudden

[unfortunatebeam]

"I'm not concerned that the Zeitgeist movement will ever reach a majority of the population. that's just not gonna happen"

Stagnant, unconvincing thinking wrought out of an environment where hopelessness and pessimism is the norm, and hence the prematurely cynical kneejerk reaction to instanly dismiss anyone daring to declare that a better world is possible

If you're so unconcerned about this, what's the point of making this video? Don't pretend to know how big you think the movement will get.

[nem700]

@unfortunatebeam

I love Zeitgeist fans. All of you are comic pseudo intellectuals trying to be smart, when you are all idiots and manipulated slaves. SCG is not saying that a better world is not impossible to attain, he is saying that you have to fight for it. Something like Zeitgeist goes against many established beliefs, and you will face a mighty battle for supremacy if you get a certain level of support. But you won't, because it has to many flaws, nor is it needed.

[unfortunatebeam]

@nem700 Oh yea lol I'm a "manipulated slave" eh? speaking of idiots. Actually I'm not a member of the zeitgeist movement; however, I'm for supporting people who are non-delusional enough to see the huge corruption in the system which needs huge reform, and trying to do or at least say something about it.

I don't know what's exactly needed (I would safely assume you don't either); I just know something is, desperately. And I appreciate new ideas over stale, proven dysfunctional ones any day.

[IdaSputum]

"The Big Shift" which Peter Joseph tells us to "accept, go with , wait for" is a euphemism for 90% of us being nuked while he's holed up in his luxury bunker. There arent even blue-prints for the Venus Prison, its a scam, a holding device to keep people distracted from genuinely overthrowing the bankers whilst they dismantle their OWN present system with faked crisis etc

Peter Joseph a desciple of Mme Blatasvsky is just externalising their NWO agenda. "Tracking" = chipped world bank slaves

[originalcause]

@DefendYourFreedom I agree with your analysis. To me, the US Constitution, if followed, has the best chance of preserving liberty for the most people worldwide than all these naive new world order type systems. The trouble is corrupt politicians who are bought by corporate interests, instead of doing their real job which is to protect the Constitution and thus the people's liberty.

[rockman1969]

I agree with this guy. Why the fuck should we give two shits about any brown people starving in some country that doesn't even have cable tv . We want stuff man! We want to see people torn to shreads by tanks and bullets on HD tv. This system is beautiful and we should kill anyone who thinks otherwise. Fuck 'Em.

[Play671]

"Education is the vaccine for violence"

Thumbs up.

[RoanCarratu]

And one more thing... violence and coercion is the basic groundwork of the existing paradigm, It sees coercion as a natural result of change and necessary for all change. It sees violence as a given. We do not. We see that our survival as a species is at stake, and that survival depends upon the ecology. When the chips are down, people change the way they think, and treat the ecology smarter, and that is the only hope humanity has. The ZM is a new way of thinking, a new worldview.

[RoanCarratu]

LOL. 'not going to happen'? LOL You are seeing it all in the old ways of thinking, and you therefor cannot understand what the Zeitgeist ideas represent. The Zeitgeist Movement is not seeking 'power' or 'territory' like communism did or any of that old thought. We are not an 'ideology' or 'doctrine' or 'dogma', or any of that. You see it in the terms you think in, and therefore you cannot even imagine what is actually going on. No Problem... You will eventually understand.

[artisart]

What about the more advance countries? did you think about that, your argument doesn't hold much water, your iterating whats already known, have you looked at the underground hackers world, modders etc. What about stem cell research both embryonic and adult stem cells, synthetic plants, alternate fuel source. All these things are whats pushing our society into a positive evolution outcome.

[jallelind]

i think some violence could be inevitable. But if everyone agreed with Jacque at that point in time and knew exactly what to do it could end good.

[suomi222]

I dont get your point? Is your point that zeitgeist peoples are stubid becouse the wish a better world for all? you tell why the movement will not work becouse of resistance. but all great movements will see blood and enemys. what about Christianity the ideology ist one of the most pacifist ideologys. why you dont scream that Christianity will never work becouse they wont a peacefull world and there will always be those who dont want? (srry for my english)

[seigneurvoland666]

how many people died for the amerikan revolution?

[seigneurvoland666]

there's violence right now so shut the fuck up about this. anyone who is 100% pacifist is a fool.

[unfortunatebeam]

@seigneurvoland666 Ghandi was 100% pacifistic, and his nonviolent tactics eventually gained India its independence from VIOLENT british colonial rule. What's foolish is to think that violence is inevitable when it's been proven that it isn't. Canada for instance gradually gained a peaceful and unbloody independence from Britain; they're not the only example. The only purpose for violence of any kind is strictly self-defence against the lingering, laggardly, outmoded barbarian fools of the world.

[nem700]

@unfortunatebeam

you don't know your history. You think it was ghandi's non violent tactic that got them independence? Think again. If the british had not been devastated physically and economically, they would not have given india political independence. If that didn''t happen, it would have been a violent insurrection that removed the British, because the british would have fought for India. But now you have more subtle means of control, and colonization, and imperialism.

[unfortunatebeam]

@nem700 britain being weakened during ww2 helped. But it was all through Ghandi's nonviolent civil disobedience (mass standstills, boycott of foreign made items, british schools and law courts, the salt march etc) that galvanized the Indian people to his side overwhelming and caused the inertia that but incredible pressure on the brit government long before the war. all without sword or gun. yeah I agree about the more subtle means of control (but i think you mean to say neocolonialism).

[nem700]

@unfortunatebeam

If i wanted to say neo colonialism, i would have said neo colonialism. Well, you are obviously a girl. Not that there is anything wrong with being a girl, i love girls, but you are silly and over confident as well as arrogant full of yourself, a girl who is just so unattractive. Try and tone it down. I said what i think our current system needs; A leash. WTO patents and rules must be reworked for African benefit, all African debt must be absolved,...

[nem700]

@unfortunatebeam

..rabid capitalism must be replaced with a internationally regulated kind. And i'm not talking about the IMF. People are suggesting a a Keynesian Clearing Fund which has my support. exploitation and imperialism must be rejected and stopped, and yes, that should do it for a while. African development will lead to an inevitable curbing of consumption in the West which will lead to a more environmentally sustainable economy. We don't need TVP.

[nem700]

@unfortunatebeam

As far as Indian independence, Britain didn't put up a fight. It couldn't. I guarantee you, TVP will not come about unless there is a massive struggle, a fight for survival. SCG made it very clear in the video. Your arguments about India do not hold water. In any case, you can't even compare the too. TVP will face far stronger resistance than the meek 1940s Britian. We don't need a massive upheaval like that. We need gradual evolution.

[seigneurvoland666]

@unfortunatebeam Lol it's a myth that the british backed out of India because of Ghandi, trust me. Even when they did pull it they still managed india to their interest in a more indirect way. Lol Canada is 100% independent from the Crown? Lies, we're still with the crown and it's sad. Public land and/or unused land = crown land... Stop spreading myths.. Im not advocating violence, i don't believe in Aggression. The people who defend this system will become violent

[brahmbhattbhavna]

peter joseph merola does not dislike the kkk

[jallelind]

@brahmbhattbhavna thats not what he said. He said that he did not care if a person was a member of the KKK if the KKK member at some good ideas and arguments. Stop taking things out of context.

[whiterabit09]

the Muslim culture has had to fight against christian invasion during the crusades & imposed military dictatorship from the u.s. to rob them of there fossil fuels. The Venus Project culture doesn't expect them to give up theirs. They would be free to live as they choose. The same as hunter gatherers or other religious cultures do now. It is a bit o f a sneaky projection to Quote Jaque Fresco as if the violence he is referring to will come from those working towards the Venus Project.

[whiterabit09]

the collapse of this system will perhaps lead to violence. The VP is trying to provide some clear goals for all of us to work towards to define a outline so a critical mass can be reached.

Hopefully there will be less suffering & violence before this system collapses if we can transition out of it before this horror comes into effect. Muslims will not have to give up there way of life, so there will be nothing for them to fight against.

[nemesis700]

devastating critique.

[unfortunatebeam]

@nemesis700 lol yeah right. unconvincing dreck more like it.

[DefendYourFreedom]

"It is not remotely over dramatic, the gravity of the situation is potential extinction."

Potential extinction is not overdramatic?

"I would expect nuclear war to break out during a fuel based war."

Expectations cannot dictate the future, and there is no reason the presume that oil shortages are going to incite a nuclear war. To influence populations with unfounded claims of disaster wich harbor notions of fear based on pure logical assesment without circumstantial evidence is irresponsible.

[DvineGaming]

Whatt is the "nefarious" goal in the Z-movement. I have gone over it many times and quite frankly it will not leave room for power, yes it is on the whim that people will agree with it but obviously it isn't going to be an open heart to stab. Counter terrorism units would be implicated, we can deal with it. Now to think a monetary system is better. Well I have no idea what kind of delusion you have. The economy is quite obviously based on the concept of infinite resources. We will change or die.

[DefendYourFreedom]

@DvineGaming

"Whatt is the "nefarious" goal in the Z-movement. "

The problem is not its goals, people realize the intents are sincere, but social economic systems like this have been proposed and they have all failed, some have turned into major massacre's.

To enforce an ideology like this unto people is very dangerous. Movements like the ZTM apply pressure onto cultures and their beliefsystems to abide to a unified social system. You just cant expect this is going to work.

[DvineGaming]

@DefendYourFreedom Face it, this is our last chance before we start having massive wars over oil. It is either or, the las drop of oil will be soent in a main battle tank.

[DefendYourFreedom]

@DvineGaming

"this is our last chance"

Isnt that a bit overdramatic? You not only presume it to be the last chance, but it to be a chance at all.

How do you know for sure this is gonna work, and it will not be corrupted turning it into an all powerful planetary dictatorship. Its just hypothetical, cause i dont believe you have much of chance of establishing one at all, but for the sake of probability we just assume it works out for a while.

I'd rather be certain of those concerns.

[DvineGaming]

@DefendYourFreedom You think that our society as it is can exist for more than the next 50 years? The reality is we will run out of oil. Vaccines are created using oil bi-product. EVERYTHING is created using oil. If we don't start making the shift NOW then we will just hit the brick wall. The reality is, the worlds population will drop DRAMATICALLY. Do you really think the world is going to last like this? I know people will think "Oh well it will be fine". The fact is, we will kill the planet.

[DefendYourFreedom]

@DvineGaming

"You think that our society as it is can exist for more than the next 50 years?"

Our society will change over the next 50 years, we will learn to adapt, we wont just die off. And i know many products are based on oil, but many products we can do without, they are often still unecessary luxuries.

"If we don't start making the shift NOW then we will just hit the brick wall."

Thats a nice figure of speech, but it only proposes a negative outcome wich is subject to probability.

[DefendYourFreedom]

@DvineGaming

"The reality is, the worlds population will drop DRAMATICALLY. "

If you want to implement a new global economy, you simply are depending on a small population cause to create a fully control environment with the amount people that are on this planet is just not feasible, we are talking about billions op people, you actually have to rely on depopulation to make this work.

"The fact is, we will kill the planet."

The planet will survive us, but this is about selfpreservation.

[DvineGaming]

@DefendYourFreedom It is not remotely over dramatic, the gravity of the situation is potential extinction. If we go to war over the last bits of oil, which we will. Then you can expect a losing side, both of which have nukes. I would expect nuclear war to break out during a fuel based war. The US economy is going down the hole because the US is running out of oil, more oil is used than brought into the country. Same with a lot of the world.

[DefendYourFreedom]

@DvineGaming

"The US economy is going down the hole because the US is running out of oil"

All economies are finite, all collapse over time, this is a continues cycle, not the end of the world. This was the norm even before oil became a big player in our current society. The fact that oil is running out is a good thing, cause it forces people to look for other evt. better energy sources. Apart from that, people have survived without oil in the past, so consider it a luxury, not a necessity.

[Banzay20]

@DefendYourFreedom What should we do then, just die slowly? Whats the alternatives? We are facing a future where we no longer can live on the planet (the planet gonna be fine but not the humans). If we dont change this economic system we probably will destroy the whole ecological balance, well its really not a choice then. Pinpoint whats not gonna work in an RBE and come whit solutions and then we can change it, and of course its gonna be painful, but its gonna be painful either way we take. 

[DefendYourFreedom]

@Banzay20

"What should we do then, just die slowly? Whats the alternatives?"

If man is stupid enough to bring down its own demise, then we are obviously not capable of continueing as a species. Natural selection is something you can argue about, but you cannot defy it.

Humans are no more special then any other lifeform on this planet, we're not equal, but we are by no means more or less then a virus. We just think alot more of ourselves then a virus does. We dont own the planet either.

[DefendYourFreedom]

@Banzay20

With the analogy of the virus i'm not pointing out ourselves as lesser beings, i'm just pointing out how arrogant we are as a species.

Its humans who appoint themselves to save the planet, not for the sake of the planet, but for the of selfpreservation. Is it not this arrogance what brings us into violating this planet, the resources, and all the life it inhabits in the first place?

I do not condone to lower the quality of life any further to support ourselves at these costs.

[Banzay20]

@DefendYourFreedom "Is it not this arrogance what brings us into violating this planet, the resources, and all the life it inhabits in the first place?" Yes, probably a part of it, and then you can ask why are "we" arrogant, are it an inborn thing or is it the environment that makes us like that? "I do not condone to lower the quality of life any further to support ourselves at these costs." It seems that we have to lower quality of life either ways, but not in the "final" RBE

[DefendYourFreedom]

@Banzay20

"Pinpoint whats not gonna work in an RBE"

The idea you can force a solution onto this planet, even by the means of benevolent persuasion. RBE and ZTM are ignoring every human factor, dispositional, and circumstantial. Technology is not going to save us from ourselves.

You want a solution, lets just evolve and see how far we get. If we die, then thats it, and we pass the planet on to the other creatures we share it with. Maybe they'll learn from our mistakes.

[Banzay20]

@DefendYourFreedom We have to start working together and not against each other. The question should be, how can we solve this problem?

[DefendYourFreedom]

@Banzay20

If you want to change the world for the better, you must do this on your own incentives, according to your own morals and values.

The world is not a puzzle you can solve by piecing together all the perfect matching parts. You cant speak of "a problem" where there are thousands of problems that all need individual attention.

[Banzay20]

@DefendYourFreedom Sorry, bad english! I mean these problems, of course its not just one problem. But you can find the rot of the most problems and work from that, and its not done over a night to change a whole system. We gonna face a future where we have to make a choice 1. we do as we always have done or 2. we change for the better.

[DefendYourFreedom]

@Banzay20

In a hour or so i will upload a video concerning human rights, individualism and collectivism. I suggest you watch it, and for that manner the entire series of wich i will provide a link. Its very important, but basic information.

[Banzay20]

@DefendYourFreedom Ok, nice! Im waiting. =D 

[DefendYourFreedom]

@Banzay20

I am a proponent of freedom, a concept where my actions as an individual are only accountable to myself, not to some movement, religion, or political wing etc. Especially there where individual opinions are considered dangerous, and you are being led by a system of "decision making" in favor of the collective, wich is even more dangerous then an individual opinion.

[Banzay20]

@DefendYourFreedom I try to understand what you mean here. Do you mean Jacques F, Roxanne M and Peter J have a hidden agenda and wants to take over the world or what do you mean?! You can have opinions all day long and it probably not gonna do any harm, but if people depends on your opinions then its dangerous the decisions have to be put to test by the scientific method to be valid. RBE gonna be more free then this system for sure, but then you can ask whats freedom?

[DefendYourFreedom]

@Banzay20

I'm saying Jacques F, Roxanne M have benign intentions to save people. Peter J is a manipulator who is going to hi-jack his ideology when Jacques is gone, and rape his dream. I think Jacques is a wonderful person, but even his intelligence leaves room for ignorance and naivety.

If this catches on, other people as well will try and influence his "vision" to meet their own interests, even powerful political institutions will leech on to this.

RBE will be a technological prison.

[Banzay20]

@DefendYourFreedom Yes, i can understand your fear! And in todays society where "big shots" like bankers an such are ruling the world thats probably a possible scenario but this system has to fail before an RBE society can emerge. Only the day when this people on the top lose their power only then a change can take place, and hopefully for the better.

[Banzay20]

Only the time can show if thats thru about Peter J, and he has no more power then anybody else in the movement, all the people i talk to in the TZM are very open minded people and do their research before they say anything, i mean they use facts and not feelings when they make their decisions and thats the whole idea in an RBE, not opinions and feelings! Nobody would want to be corrupt in RBE or even could if they wanted to, but in the transition it would fore sure be the case

[DefendYourFreedom]

@Banzay20

"Only the time can show if thats thru about Peter J"

Thats like saying you can only really know a bomb goes off after you watched it exploding. If there is reason to worry, this should be approached with more caution.

"he has no more power then anybody else in the movement"

Thats not true, Peter is the voice of the movement, people seek him out on youtube and give him enourmous attention you wont see amongst other followers. That is quite some power, and he got a taste for it.

[Banzay20]

@DefendYourFreedom Yes, but you have to understand that the WHOLE concept (RBE), the idea are not based on opinions and prophecies, only facts. This is not an religion where a leader guides people what they should do, and everything are open sourced and open for inspection, that day its not open then you can worry. Peter have a good vocabulary and often use hard and long words and maybe he have easier to express the ideas than most other but thats not changing the goals, he are a frontf.

[Banzay20]

@Banzay20 guides = tells, order

[DefendYourFreedom]

@Banzay20

??? = what, huh

[Banzay20]

@DefendYourFreedom Guides didn't feel as the right word, but my attempt to make it clearer didnt work as good as i wanted obviously.. =P But i think you understand my point

[DefendYourFreedom]

@Banzay20

lol, no i'm absolutely missing something here. What are trying to say?

[Banzay20]

@DefendYourFreedom Ok, one more try :) // "Thats like saying you can only really know a bomb goes off after you watched it exploding. If there is reason to worry, this should be approached with more caution." Yes, but Peter are not a bomb or couldn't have that impact, he's just a front figure. The people in TZM are independent people that on every lecture about RBE are advised to do their own research from both Jacques and Peter, they don't claim to be a almighty knowers of everything.

[DefendYourFreedom]

@Banzay20

"Yes, but Peter are not a bomb or couldn't have that impact, he's just a front figure."

He is not a literal bomb, but he is that front figure, i dont have to go off with a list of front figures to give you a sense of power that comes with the deal.

Spiderman: "with great power, comes great responsibility"

[DefendYourFreedom]

@Banzay20

"you have to understand that the WHOLE concept (RBE), the idea are not based on opinions and prophecies, only facts. "

I understand the concept is dynamic and is prone to corruption, the idea of worldwide implementation is worthy of ridicule. You either end up living in that world order from those you sought to escape, or end up in another episode of Mad Max. It all revolves around the destruction of the current existing social structures, no one gets away unscathed.

[Banzay20]

@DefendYourFreedom "people seek him out on youtube and give him enourmous attention you wont see amongst other followers". I can understand peoples support, because he has done allot to make the RBE an known subject to be taken serious. An alternative way of living that are open for discussion. I personally don't think a A. Hitler no.2 will be possible like 70-80 years later after the big wars, people wouldn't allow tyranny like you are suggesting. 

[DefendYourFreedom]

@Banzay20

"I personally don't think a Hitler no.2 will be possible like 70-80 years later after the big wars, people wouldn't allow tyranny like you are suggesting."

Would you have thought the people 70-80 years ago would have allowed a tyranny to happen? Dont you think they thought they we're creating a better world? Its not a matter of if, but when and how. Movements who propose radical solutions definitly fit the profile.

[unfortunatebeam]

@DefendYourFreedom Only accountable to yourself? Yeah, go live on antartica then buddy. Or else stop living in denial that you live in a complex society where you are constantly dependent on so many (from your doctor, to the stock clerk that stocks your food) like how so many are dependent on you. We all already share a living expereince in a large, complex community. If you don't like this, like I said, go live alone in isolation somewhere. It's the only way you can make youself sound valid.

[unfortunatebeam]

@DefendYourFreedom i suggest you focus on the current failed/disastrous economic system and the psychopathic, corporitist, selfishness rules ideology that's being forced onto you and your kids right now, and not lambast ones that havn't even been given the chance to be tried. And sorry, NO, it hasn't been tried. You're misequating two systems (resource based economy with commuism); while they have some similarities, they have just as many if not more significant differences.

[nem700]

@unfortunatebeam

There is nothing disastrous about capitalism. Haven't you noticed the leaps and bounds society has made under it? For now, we have to stick with it till we reach the threshold. But it must be reigned in tho. The IMF and WTO must be disbanded as it brings nothing but destitution. Ethical capitalism is the way forward where imperialism and exploitation is outlawed. China's sweatshop workers need a better conditions, Africa needs development investment.

[unfortunatebeam]

@nem700 capitalism wasn't the only force out there causing society to advance "leaps and bounds" (if i understand what you mean by that). But so-called capitalism as it's practiced today and recently is NOT advancing society. Nothing disastrous about capitalism? O.O I don't know if you mean to say that the disasters are all due to corportism in the guise of capitalism, or if you are just wildy ignorant/blindsighted. The number of disaters caused by corporations are simply too many to list here.