Response to Scott of PracticalMormonism on the God Never Sinned Issue

[Ozfell11]

I started listening to this video and skipped through most of it trying to find something worth listening to. I would be happy to listen to your arguments, just get to the point!

[Ozfell11]

I started listening to this video and skipped through most of it trying to find something worth listening to. I would be happy to listen to your arguments, just get to the fucking point!

[TadaStudios]

only by the Atonement can we be clean and sinless, but for us becoming a God and is not true because we can not have any Gods before God. Satan was kick out of heaven because of this. Aaron is right that a lot Mormon believe of become a God and even my family. But I do not believe that we need to be a God just be with God is good enough for me. And im a Mormon.

[MormonUnApologist]

Awesome, as per usual!

[andydude44]

Aaron, I can see you like to focus on gospel topics that I would generally consider "deep." Actually, I might even consider them "mysteries of God." Studying these out are interesting, but they are not necessary to know for our salvation. The bible is clear on what we need to do to be saved. I'd suggest focusing on the core doctrines of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and not get caught up in these mysteries. I'd suggest starting with Faith, Repentance, Baptism (by one authorized),and the Holy Ghost.

[aaronshaf2006]

Whether or not God was once a filthy wretched sinner is a mere deep unknowable "mystery"? Truly your Mormonism is pagan.

[andydude44]

You are entitled to your interpretation of the scriptures, just as I am. But again, even if we disagree on this point it DOESN'T MATTER (in relation to one's salvation). There are many topics that Christians don't agree on. Why is that? Could it be because the Bible is not 100% clear on every aspect of the eternities (like this one)? Sure. That's why God has provided prophets- to help us know what is vital to our salvation. If this was vital, God would reveal the exact answer to his prophets.

[andydude44]

That's one of the many reasons prophets are so important. The LDS Church is the only Church with a true prophet today. It started with Jospeh Smith and has continued on ever since. That's what sets the Mormon Church a part. Since it is led by a true prophet, it is the Lord's church, and as such contains all of the principles and ordinances that are necessary for salvation. You may not see it that way, but I do. I know it's true (as well as millions of others).

[imtherealthing]

@aaronshaf2006

No what "is" paganism is your 3-headed god.

TEll me where does one find your 3-headed Nicene jesus in the bible?

Show me where "in the bible" one finds the words "essence" or "substance" to describe the ONENESS trinitarians ascribe to thier false god they claim is in the bible..show me where in ANY of the ORIGINAL languages we find these two words...pllleaassee?..let's see if your "god" is the REAL BIBLICAL GOD in a GODHEAD that we LDS say is ONe in Purpose..NOT essence

[awolLDSasap]

thing. Do I hear crickets after every comment you make?

[MormonUnApologist]

@awolLDSasap Isn't it truly marvelous the crickets around imtherealthing? Reminds me of the phrase from the Wizard of Oz. "You have no power here. Begone before someone drops a house on you too."

[awolLDSasap]

@MormonUnApologist true, the house crashed down upon him.

[MormonUnApologist]

@awolLDSasap Thank God. Can you imagine if that mentality became the typification of Mormon actions and ideology? First it would be intimidating, but it would tear the Mormon church to shreds rather violently. What a sight that would be.

[awolLDSasap]

A few years ago realthing found out his computer could multi task, but he claims the eternal God could never do that. He demands that his god must be mortal, just like him.

[theembracedofgod]

I"m sorry that you don't understand the trinity...

[imtherealthing]

Your "trinity" is of the devil..for God is not a "mystery"..as ALL trinitarians believe..you make me laugh..are you saying "you" understand the trinity?...lol..you would be the first trinitarian I have met who would make this claim...lol..false christian

[imtherealthing]

@aaronshaf2006

Tell me about your god who is a "mystery" and that you claim you are supposed to have a "personal relationship" with yet, how can one have a personal realtionship with a "mystery"?

[imtherealthing]

@aaronshaf2006

John 17:3

And this is LIFE ETERNAL, that THEY might KNOW THEE the ONLY TRUE GOD, and Jesus Christ, whom THOU HAST SENT.

hmm..sounds to me like God "and" Jesus who He sent (two beings here) are NO mystery..as a matter of FACT..you must NOT have ETERNAL LIFE as this scripture tells us since you do NOT know who GOD is.

[imtherealthing]

@aaronshaf2006

Acts 7:51-53

Ye STIFFNECKED and uncircumcised IN HEART and EARS, YE DO ALWAYS RESIST the HOLY GHOST: as your fathers did, so do ye. Which of the PROPHETS have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: Who have received the law by the disposition of ANGELS, and have not kept it.

[imtherealthing]

@aaronshaf2006

Acts 7:54

When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.

[RESTOREDAPOLOGETICS]

There's another chapter to this on going issue that people ought to check out.

You Tube: RESTORED APOLOGETICS playlists:

Contrasting LDS & Early Christian Versions of Deification

[drewroe882]

Aaron, like the points you make in this video! Thanks for sharing! I'm enjoying watching this debate between the two of you. While I agree with you, I also like how Scott is willing to address the issue and do so respectfully. I'm watching as well! :-)

[aaronshaf2006]

Thanks bro!

[TheSkepticChristian]

@aaronshaf2006 If you believe that Mormons are lost, then you believe in a cruel god

[VictorLepanto]

Your reading the doctrine of original sin into Mormonism. I don't believe that is a doctrine in Mormonism. I am not all to clear on what the redemtion of Jesus is in Mormonism on that account. My understanding is that Mormomism is rather similar to class Pelagianism. Sin is the result of bad examples & we are saved by striving harder to overcome our sins. God doesn't raise us up to His level, we must seek to reach him 1st.

[KakkoiGuy1]

I'm not bashing anyone. I'm just answering a question out of love. I hope what I said is understood. Christians know and understand this an know that God is perfect. He always has been and always will be. So that is not a thing that we even discuss because the Bible teaches us that. It teaches that there was no other God before him nor after him. That means we (his creation) can not become gods of our own planets and have spirit babies that worship us. The Biblical God hates that idea.

[KakkoiGuy1]

The problem matters within the Mormon system because Mormonism poses itself as Christian and therefore promotes itself as a way of salvation. Do you understand that? So when people come to mormonism they believe they will be saved but the system is more legalistic than anything. The problem is this...How can you be saved by a flawed God. If Jesus and His Father are one and the Father sinned, that means Jesus would have a sinful nature too and couldn't be the perfect sacrifice on the cross for us

[VictorLepanto]

I don't see why this issue matters w/in the Mormon system. Even if the Mormon god sinned in his mortal estate, if he doesn't now that is all that matters. Is it not possible for fathers in mortal matters to raise up sons who exceed him? Abe Lincoln exceeded his father. Napolean exceeded his father. Thomas Edison exceeded his father. Why is it absurd for Jesus to exceed his father in his mortal estate.

It is better to address the Mormon idea of gods on the fallacy of eternal regressions.

[aaronshaf2006]

I'm responding to the Mormon worldview from a Biblical Christian worldview, not merely from a Mormon worldview.

[VictorLepanto]

It seemed to me that you are implying some intrinsic paradox on Mormon thinking.

If your not doing this then you seem to be merely stating a truism. Different things are not the same. Obviously. The historic Judeo-christian view of God ("There is no shadow of turning") is obviously different from there god which turns like a pinwheel. Of course the Mormon assertion is that the supposedly Mormon like original teaching of early Christianity was utterly effaced from the Earth in the apostasy.

[aaronshaf2006]

I'm dealing both with internal inconsistency and external inconsistency. And I'm working on the assumption that all human beings have some part of their conscience that screams out: GOD NEVER SINNED! It's the only logical God to believe in.

[GiftoAll]

How true!

There is an ongoing shuffle of responsiblity. Who really knows Mormon doctrine?