In my opinion, the ace is a combination of 2 simple things, marketability and reliability. I don't consider Kobashi the ace because while highly marketable, he is not very reliable. Someone like Tanahashi is a good example of this. He is both wildly popular and, due to his young age and durability, dependable. The same can be said of Nakamura.
The only thing that is not very reliable about Kobashi is cancer. His injury rate is lower than Tanahashi's and Nakamura's once you take out two episodes of cancer.
You get an idea for the sort of year Tanahashi has had when Makabe (YES! makabe!!!) is getting MVP awards from the mainstream press (who LOVE tanahashi). i even doubted by own claim of Nakamura, but numbers indicate that in the last 12 months he can get bums on seats.
Cancer is a pretty big deal.....also, Kobashi is getting old. Your ace can't be ready to retire any time. Kobashi is 10 years older than the New Japan aces, and several years passed his prime. Still, a major draw, but not someone upon who's shoulders you can safely rest a promotion.
Tanahashi did suffer an injury this year, but NJPW has literally proclaimed him their ace, and he is certainly their top, or 1/2 of their top draw. Makabe was filler, nothing more.
"but not someone upon who's shoulders you can safely rest a promotion"
Yes, I agree that NOAH cannot rest their promotion on Kobashi's shoulders, but I dont agree that you need to be that to be the current ace... but I see where you're coming from.
There's a lot of debate going on about who does/doesn't draw both at NOAH and with NJPW. There is absolutely no evidence that either Tanahashi or Nakamura are really significant draws.
Nakamura has some numbers in his favour this year, but not enough to cross reference it to draw any sorts of firm conclusions. The same can be said of Shiozaki and KENTA for NOAH. Numbers that look OK, but you cannot isolate that individual as the cause of those good numbers. For that reason, I went a little into the kayfabe heirachy. Also that heirachy is MASSIVELY important at NOAH. It's intrinsic to the King's Road methodology and to the Ark Road so far.
Puroresu isn't drawing as well as it once did. Basically I picked Nakamura based upon his status as champion, he's the front of every poster I've seen where he is on the card and he's the media representative (along with Chono and Goto) - Tanahashi's injury made it easy too.
For NOAH, i simply took the hierarchy and drawing power in the present. The future is obviously not burning orange, but right now, a dome show with Kobashi in the main event would put bums on seats.
I think Nakamura is a fine choice for ace. Tana would have been better pre-Boma Ye face fucking, but I digress.
I think Kobashi is a draw in NOAH the same way Mutoh was a draw in NJPW. I'm not referring to the "outsider wining the strap" element, but more the "people love and know Mutoh, and think of him as a legend". I wouldn't have called Mutoh NJPW ace last year, and I don't think Kobashi is NOAH ace now. That spot is held by the illustrious Mohammed Yone.
NJPW didn't have much of an ace in 2008. It was kinda "everyone trying to become the ace by going over AJPW invader Mutoh". My current NOAH ace would either be Sugiura or KENTA, although I've been in NJPW mode for a few months.
"i feel KENTA had a short stint as an ace in NOAH already"
quite possibly. his two failed GHC title efforts probably hurt his chances of being an ace though. he didnt even win any 'MVP' awards in the Japanese press so far. but the mainstream wrestling press in japan is rather kayfabe focussed and massively heavyweight biased.
i love YAMATO too, but i think u dont need to be heavyweight to be the ace of a company, in my opinion KENTA was the main draw of NOAH before his injury, also Marufuji has been on a roll since his returning, still great video
very true about not needing to be a heavyweight. if you look at my description box, a few of the 'aces' i put there are juniors. But puroresu still has a heavyweight bias. Awesome heavies draw huge; awesome juniors draw decently.
Also, as much as to me, KENTA was the best performer in NOAH throughout 09, i had to consider the fictitious fact that Akiyama and Shiozaki both beat KENTA in GHC title matches. When my year end awards come around, you will see what I think of KENTA ;)
Good video. Totally agree in regards to AJPW, actually. I can't see anyone besides Suwama becoming that top guy. Maybe one of the Jr Heavyweights if they moved up, but other then that, it's hard to see.
As soon as I finished making the video i thought:"idiot! what's to stop a junior making the step up after I just suggested it for KENTA and Nakajima?". Hayashi scooped MVP awards from the puroresu press, so he and someone like shuji kondo could possibly step up. i'm honestly not quite convinced however lol
I like Goto too! (had to listen to it a bunch of times because you say the names the way the japanese do and not the way my round eyes read them). I'm surprised you didn't mention Akiyama when talking about NOAH, is he still out?
Also, I don't get YAMOTO, like I see why people like him, but he just doesn't click with me. Though I feel the same way about Shawn Michaels so who gives a fuck what I think lol
The akiyama situation appears rather strange. Some reports indicate that he has suffered post-traumatic stress (not related to Misawa at all btw) and that his back injury was mostly kayfabe to cover the real absence. Marufuji is entirely in control of booking at the moment and Akiyama could retire any moment.
I think most people digg yamato because he isnt a template dragon-style worker and he has those quirky facial expressions. he only 'clicked' with me in the last year or so ;)
In my opinion, the ace is a combination of 2 simple things, marketability and reliability. I don't consider Kobashi the ace because while highly marketable, he is not very reliable. Someone like Tanahashi is a good example of this. He is both wildly popular and, due to his young age and durability, dependable. The same can be said of Nakamura.
KingAndy1992 2 years ago
@KingAndy1992
The only thing that is not very reliable about Kobashi is cancer. His injury rate is lower than Tanahashi's and Nakamura's once you take out two episodes of cancer.
You get an idea for the sort of year Tanahashi has had when Makabe (YES! makabe!!!) is getting MVP awards from the mainstream press (who LOVE tanahashi). i even doubted by own claim of Nakamura, but numbers indicate that in the last 12 months he can get bums on seats.
what exactly did you mean by reliability?
IchibanPuroresu 2 years ago
Cancer is a pretty big deal.....also, Kobashi is getting old. Your ace can't be ready to retire any time. Kobashi is 10 years older than the New Japan aces, and several years passed his prime. Still, a major draw, but not someone upon who's shoulders you can safely rest a promotion.
Tanahashi did suffer an injury this year, but NJPW has literally proclaimed him their ace, and he is certainly their top, or 1/2 of their top draw. Makabe was filler, nothing more.
KingAndy1992 2 years ago
@KingAndy1992
"but not someone upon who's shoulders you can safely rest a promotion"
Yes, I agree that NOAH cannot rest their promotion on Kobashi's shoulders, but I dont agree that you need to be that to be the current ace... but I see where you're coming from.
There's a lot of debate going on about who does/doesn't draw both at NOAH and with NJPW. There is absolutely no evidence that either Tanahashi or Nakamura are really significant draws.
IchibanPuroresu 2 years ago
Nakamura has some numbers in his favour this year, but not enough to cross reference it to draw any sorts of firm conclusions. The same can be said of Shiozaki and KENTA for NOAH. Numbers that look OK, but you cannot isolate that individual as the cause of those good numbers. For that reason, I went a little into the kayfabe heirachy. Also that heirachy is MASSIVELY important at NOAH. It's intrinsic to the King's Road methodology and to the Ark Road so far.
IchibanPuroresu 2 years ago
Maybe Tanahashi and Nakamura aren't filling arenas, but they get a large reaction. If they aren't drawing, it's because puroresu isn't drawing.
KingAndy1992 2 years ago
@KingAndy1992
Puroresu isn't drawing as well as it once did. Basically I picked Nakamura based upon his status as champion, he's the front of every poster I've seen where he is on the card and he's the media representative (along with Chono and Goto) - Tanahashi's injury made it easy too.
For NOAH, i simply took the hierarchy and drawing power in the present. The future is obviously not burning orange, but right now, a dome show with Kobashi in the main event would put bums on seats.
IchibanPuroresu 2 years ago
I think Nakamura is a fine choice for ace. Tana would have been better pre-Boma Ye face fucking, but I digress.
I think Kobashi is a draw in NOAH the same way Mutoh was a draw in NJPW. I'm not referring to the "outsider wining the strap" element, but more the "people love and know Mutoh, and think of him as a legend". I wouldn't have called Mutoh NJPW ace last year, and I don't think Kobashi is NOAH ace now. That spot is held by the illustrious Mohammed Yone.
Not really.
KingAndy1992 2 years ago
@KingAndy1992 HAHAHAHAHAHA yone! you know.... he was actually pretty good once.. back in his BattleArts days! ;)
who would be your 2008 ace for NJPW and your current ace for NOAH?
IchibanPuroresu 2 years ago
NJPW didn't have much of an ace in 2008. It was kinda "everyone trying to become the ace by going over AJPW invader Mutoh". My current NOAH ace would either be Sugiura or KENTA, although I've been in NJPW mode for a few months.
KingAndy1992 2 years ago
Totally worth the wait :P Great answer.
I have to agree with all the aces listed in the video, though I feel KENTA had a short stint as an ace in NOAH already. Great video, keep them coming
MunchSomeGrindage 2 years ago
@MunchSomeGrindage
"i feel KENTA had a short stint as an ace in NOAH already"
quite possibly. his two failed GHC title efforts probably hurt his chances of being an ace though. he didnt even win any 'MVP' awards in the Japanese press so far. but the mainstream wrestling press in japan is rather kayfabe focussed and massively heavyweight biased.
IchibanPuroresu 2 years ago
i love YAMATO too, but i think u dont need to be heavyweight to be the ace of a company, in my opinion KENTA was the main draw of NOAH before his injury, also Marufuji has been on a roll since his returning, still great video
jdavidcc7 2 years ago
@jdavidcc7
very true about not needing to be a heavyweight. if you look at my description box, a few of the 'aces' i put there are juniors. But puroresu still has a heavyweight bias. Awesome heavies draw huge; awesome juniors draw decently.
Also, as much as to me, KENTA was the best performer in NOAH throughout 09, i had to consider the fictitious fact that Akiyama and Shiozaki both beat KENTA in GHC title matches. When my year end awards come around, you will see what I think of KENTA ;)
IchibanPuroresu 2 years ago
Good video. Totally agree in regards to AJPW, actually. I can't see anyone besides Suwama becoming that top guy. Maybe one of the Jr Heavyweights if they moved up, but other then that, it's hard to see.
dinosauravenger1989 2 years ago
@dinosauravenger1989
As soon as I finished making the video i thought:"idiot! what's to stop a junior making the step up after I just suggested it for KENTA and Nakajima?". Hayashi scooped MVP awards from the puroresu press, so he and someone like shuji kondo could possibly step up. i'm honestly not quite convinced however lol
IchibanPuroresu 2 years ago
I like Goto too! (had to listen to it a bunch of times because you say the names the way the japanese do and not the way my round eyes read them). I'm surprised you didn't mention Akiyama when talking about NOAH, is he still out?
Also, I don't get YAMOTO, like I see why people like him, but he just doesn't click with me. Though I feel the same way about Shawn Michaels so who gives a fuck what I think lol
eddydeez 2 years ago
@eddydeez
The akiyama situation appears rather strange. Some reports indicate that he has suffered post-traumatic stress (not related to Misawa at all btw) and that his back injury was mostly kayfabe to cover the real absence. Marufuji is entirely in control of booking at the moment and Akiyama could retire any moment.
I think most people digg yamato because he isnt a template dragon-style worker and he has those quirky facial expressions. he only 'clicked' with me in the last year or so ;)
IchibanPuroresu 2 years ago
Great episode! Intriguing question & I was interested to see who would be your choices.
Dreadpirate46 2 years ago