Bjj is good. The family is very friendly. It must be obvious by now that grappling and kick and punch systems are both important. Also, you must add the gouge and claw.
@AdverbAdjective Some brands are better than others, but taekwondo schools are notoriously weak in teaching defense. Hand techniques are de-emphasized. The kicks are cool but many are not practical in a real fight. You'd be better off practicing functional kicks in Muay Thai for example. (Looking back, I should have mentioned muay thai first, and I neglected it completely). Any art that has a realistic sparring component should be favored as well.
Read the news in October, 2002 - Gashuku (Kenyu-Ryu Karate Association Brazil) AKKB - ASSOCIAÇÃO KARATÊ KENYU-RYU BRASIL
With few participants, but to a very high technical level and with specific courses of Jiu-jitsu and karate (Daniel Sete Câmara) and Ki Breathing (Vail Mungai) and Special Techniques (Akio Yokoiama). The event was a complete success, like all others conducted by AKKB. See the photo illustrations at HISTÓRICO, on the bottom of the page at: wwwakkbcombr/
This was originally the reason for the pursuit of scientific approach to find a reasonable explanation for the facts below mentioned (Main subject here is the knowledge of fighting with empty hands) Conclusion: “As a sport activity Martial Arts aren't real” so only the military men know better this hidden truth. e.g. They’ll never smash the opponents throat, break a leg, neck bones or blind a fellow during a sport competition and of course just because It’s not a valid strategy.
We have seen several demonstrations in which practitioners of Karate can’t win the Ju-Jutsu fighters because the first ones don’t know what to do after being dropped to the ground. Long after the fight some of them use to tell that they couldn’t win without attacking the opponent's vital points.
MMA is not street fight, agreed. Striking arts are no more geared to deal with the mentioned situations than grappling arts, still no technical reason grapplers have an advantage. As far as the STR33TZ argument, it is better to come up with a solution based on your knowledge of fighting, leverage, control, technique, balance than some "technique" specific to a situation
MMA is not street fight, agreed. Striking arts are no more geared to deal with the mentioned situations than grappling arts, still no technical reason grapplers have an advantage. As far as the STR33TZ argument, it is better to come up with a solution based on your knowledge of fighting, leverage, control, technique, balance than some "technique" specific to a situation
Strikes that are illegal include kicking the face from the open or closed guard, the 12 to 6 elbow and punches to the back of the head, all of which are extremely useful to a grappler. It is a well established fact that mma and boxing gloves make you punch harder, not even gonna argue that. And the old "the gracies designed it so it obviously favors them" argument is invalid unless you have a actual TECHNICAL reason that a giant cage favors a grappler. The reason Rorion wanted a
I don't see why people always have to throw out the "oh but if this happened on the street with multiple people blah blah" yea but it didnt. just like if one guy attacks you won't be able to argue that either its futile to try and think of what if statements to try and put BJJ in some sort of corner. you see tons of videos of it working, and people would be better to just learn it. different situations require different approaches. or you end up like the karate guys. just learn it all.
If the karate school is sport oriented, they have even more restrictions than any street smart style. But obviosly groundfighting is important to know. I wonder why the karate guy didnt try to break fingers. Oh well
The cliche multiple opponents argument. If your being jumped, your going to the ground anyway. Hip throws, bear jug defenses, weapon defenses, the super slap, front and side kicks, clinching throwing and keeping the distance are all in the GJJA curriculum from the very beginning; another invalid argument perpetuated by YouTube forums
@lsloewen2 I was not putting down BJJ. I practice it. I was responding to someone else that I would not prefer to take a fight to the ground if I was outnumbered. That is all.
Can you actually break down how the UFC is tailor-made for BJJ? Is it the 5 minute rounds? The ref stand-ups? Or is it the mandatory lack-of clothing? Maybe it's the mandatory gloves, so people can hit harder than they would in real life? Or is it the cage, which people use to crush grapplers? Or all the techniques that are illegal? Throat grabs/ elbows to the head and such, things they use at GJJA; maybe that's how it's tailor made for BJJ
@lsloewen2 the ref stands you when he thinks everyone including you is about to fall asleep. the gloves are to protect your hands not to make you hit harder . would you put gloves on to go fight someone tomm cause you hit harder? the gracie family started the u.f.c and the cage has always been so it is likely that's what they wanted.and the things your saying are illegal are strikes whic you seem to think are worthless
@lsloewen2 mma is not necessarily tailror made for BJJ, but it IS geared to give grapplers an advantage, be they bjj or wrestlers.
A one-on-one fight with no groin attacks, eye gouging, hair-pulling, or biting. No chance of a bladed weapon being drawn by your opponent. No structural barriers,impediments,or other dangers on the ground (ie., broken glass,rough pavement,uneven surface,chairs, etc.) No chance of multiple attackers/friends jumping and stomping your head.
@iwantastiffdrink - If is was propaganda, don’t you think the karate practitioners would have posted the videos of them beating up on BJJ practitioners? Where are those videos? I know each story has two sides but when you search for (insert martial art here) vs BJJ you always end up with BJJ on top. It’s not like your searching for BJJ kicks (insert martial art here) ass.
I agree that BJJ is not the best martial art but when it comes to the ground game, it is hard to deny that BJJ is superior.
What a load of crap. Unless you are in a sporting event, inside a cage, with rules, a referee, smooth surfaces, a time limit, and a guarantee that nobody will jump in and assist your opponent, then embracing the Graciues and BJJ will get you killed. They suck. Their system sucks. It does ok in UFC & PRIDE only. Surest way to get maimed in the real world is to rely on BJJ. The Gracies need a huge dose of reality & humility. Total joke. Only dumbasses take this propaganda video seriously. LOL.
@iwantastiffdrink You need some respect my man. I'd like to see how much like joking you feel facing Roger Gracie lol The Gracie's have never said their style is perfect and that is not the premise of this video. It was just to show the world a different combat aspect that had not, at that time, previously been given much thought. Every Gracie I have met and trained with have been nothing but real and humble. Peace.
@MsAdolfHipster - The Gracie's are humble? Now that's funny as hell. Look at the evidence right under your nose!! This video is a propaganda piece - along w/ MANY others on YouTube that the Gracie's created which falsely malign other martial arts - that seeks to say (not so subtly) that BJJ is greatly superior to all others. They claim this by posting one-sided videos that purport to show the utter fultility of other arts when pitted against BJJ. That's dishonest, and it isn't humble. Sorry!
@iwantastiffdrink That's right. Everyone knows that in the real world, when attacked by 5 guys at once, all you gotta do is a few tornado kicks and you're golden.
@tim72184 - How positively absurd. That's the best you got? Put the old Karate Kid movies away and put the crack pipe down. In all my years as a martial artist, I have seen the tornado kick attempted just once and it was in a movie. Hey, why not try putting those 5 attackers in a kimura...one at a time, of course! I'm sure they'll all patiently wait. LOL! BJJ is a sport, not a martial art. As a sport, it's really great. As a means of real world self-defense, it will get you killed or maimed.
@iwantastiffdrink I don't think a martial art exists that would protect one against five attackers. Granted, if I had to deal with two, BJJ would not be the best candidate since you'd just be getting kicked on the ground. Against untrained people, I can see standup being far more effective. If assailed by 4-5 people who had training, you'd be pretty much screwed either way. BJJ is integral to any complete fighter, but it is not enough on its own, though it will beat any standup 1v1.
@tim72184 - Now you're making more sense. I have a hard time imagining a real world scenario where I would want to avoid striking, and go to the ground and get my attacker in a pretzel-like hold. We both agree that if you are going to use BJJ in some form, 1 on 1 is the only way (if then). But why wouldn't you dispose of this opponent w/ a few quick strikes? What's the attraction of wallowing on the ground when it can be avoided? Also, what does BJJ do that Japanese Jiu-Jitsu doesn't do better?
@iwantastiffdrink An experienced jiu-jitsu practitioner can almost always ground an experienced standup artist. It's the case time and time again. It's important to at least have a background in grappling. But to "dispose of the opponent in a few quick strikes..." it sounds to me like you have not fought very much. Sometimes the opponent can, well, block, and then get close enough that you can't hit him. Google BJJ v. any standup. BJJ wins 90% of the time, even when the artist is a noob.
@tim72184 - Clearly, I have failed to get you to see that BJJ vs anybody isn't compelling; if the clash is a sporting event. UFC is tailor made for BJJ. Winning in the "octagon" is a long cab ride away from winning in a bar fight, or at a ballgame, or at a fraternity party. In these real world scenarios, BJJ is a godawful liability and not an asset. As to grappling experience, I agree it's good to have some skills. But again, I'll take the original Japanese art over BJJ. Yours in budo...
@iwantastiffdrink sounds to me like you have the anit-gracie chip on your shoulder from videos like this. but hey, its effective. simple as that. people always throw out this multiple opponents like its the only thing that happens. what about ALLL millions of fights that are between 1on1 people. it seems to me you just don't like BJJ. this also comes from a lack of studying BJJ or seeing it outside of youtube. BJJ is a martial art just like Boxing, just like tkd not just sport. period.
@pedro90 - My problem w/ the Gracie's has always been their total lack of humility, their denegration of other arts, the making of clearly biased propaganda videos, and their propagation of myths. It's funny how all these BJJ videos that are slobbered over, are all either Gracie contrived stunts, or sporting events. No reality. Also, Karate, Kung Fu, Hapkido, et al, were designed to at minimum maim the opponent, or be lethal. UFC & Pride events handcuff traditional martial arts & dumb them down.
@iwantastiffdrink like i said the chip. You also have alot of the common martial arts misconceptions. 1.) i felt the same way about BJJ about 5 years ago then someone told me the truth- its just marketing. they know they aren't unbeatable the gracies have lost many times. What there doing is no different then the challenge matches that have been done against other styles ever since martial arts was invented. karate, judo, jiujitsu all did the same thing just not on the same grand scale.
@iwantastiffdrink 2.) The misconception that UFC and Pride events hand cuff the systems is absurd & comes from lack of knowledge. UFC 1-5 had absolutely no rules. NONE. & there were many karate fighters who entered & did well, but many did not. it was due to training methods & unfamiliarity with certain aspects of combat( grappling) why many failed. But there was no rule set that somehow limited any traditional stylists. seeing as there was no rules set. there wasn't even rounds or time limits.
@iwantastiffdrink as stated, nobody said the gracies are unbeatable, but if there were more videos of them loosing you'd have seen them. also /watch?v=9rfJerp-4ws so much for BJJ as well as MMA not being for real combat.
@pedro90 - Then we'll simply agree to disagree. The early UFC's were w/out rules. And with the exception of Dan Severn, Ken Shamrock, and Royce Gracie, they were without talent too. The fight cards were brimming with no names, journeymen, and wanna-be's. The UFC of today - from a talent comparison - is a whole different world. My point is simply this...UFC is a poor barometer of any martial arts' effectiveness in real world scenarios. But some arts are more suited to it's restraints than others.
@iwantastiffdrink your missing my point sir. Im not demanding that you become a BJJ fan or an MMA fan. I'm defending MMA as having the most effective way for training against how fights actually occur. at least in terms of 1v1. the mutliple opponents argument is stupid seeing as no system is going to see you through being jumped by 10 people. also I think your getting sport BJJ confused with self defense BJJ or GJJ. here /watch?v=Aeg926nPCGQ thats self defense you learn at a standard BJJ school.
@pedro90 - The "multiple opponents argument" is not stupid at all. 10 versus 1 is stupid, but you've to taken it to an exteme in order to try to make a point. 1 versus 2, or 1 versus 3 is not stupid, nor uncommon. Since BJJ has no defense against such odds makes your response understandable, but invalid nonetheless. BJJ has it's positives I suppose, but not nearly as many as you claim, nor near as many as the traditional martial arts do. If UFC is your thing then, by all means, please try BJJ.
@iwantastiffdrink i love how you completely just ignored all the proof i have presented to you. People like you amaze me. Im sure there was someone like you when the first gun was invented attempting to argue how it was ineffective for combat simply due to lack of effectiveness in one particular range. any reputable BJJ school teaches you throws, takedowns, and self-dfense techniques seperatly from its sport class. you have no leg to stand on. just ur strawman arguement.
@iwantastiffdrink simply put- what i have presented: every gracie challenge match- UFC1-5 which had no rules at all- the fact that knowing how to ground fight is very over looked & not somthing you can simply just wing- the fact that MMA is the most fullcontact no resistant- less restricted form training. what you have said: MMA is so restricted but not sited how. especially when it had no rules. the fact that you wouldn't ground fight one guy. no shit. you'd take down and kip going. like judo.
@iwantastiffdrink actually BJJ is more similar to Judo then japanese jiujitsu so it'd be similar to say what does BJJ do that Judo doesn't do better. to which one would say ground fight better- where as Judo has Better takedowns. however both are very neutral in comparison since there almost one in the same. but its easy to see that now your just speaking from your BJJ personal gripes not actually truths. your entitled to your opinion. but don't get it confused with truth. argument refuted again
@iwantastiffdrink finallythe multiples argument is stupid because its the only thing people like you ever argue against BJJ/MMA and its very weak. in BJJ self defense( not sport) your taught judo/and Jiujitsu takedowns throws and escapes. however your added with ground defense and fighting which most JJ schools skip or skim. and if your ever in the area where you end up on the ground its better you kno them- then not because you don't like the gracies marketing strategy. thats why its stupid.
@iwantastiffdrink a boxer isn't going to suck because theres no longer round timers, and a wrestler won't freeze up simply because he has pinned the guy. your martial arts as bruce lee said should bend and shape like water to the situation at hand. So if i can't run like any smart person would against more then one person. i'd simply use the clinch to maneaver him in directions to stop his buddy from hitting me, then take them down too. constantly moving. just like in Jap jiujitsu.
@iwantastiffdrink and finally. your idea is stupid because you seem to try and use one area that everyone is at a disadvantage at to try and prove that BJJ is complete and totally ineffective. but traditional aren't. it also shows you have never studied any BJJ to back up your ideas. everyone is at a disadvantage against mutliple guys. one woudl even argue its funny that you have to gang up on a BJJer to have a chance of beating him. since you can't defeat him 1v1. BJJ works well.
@pedro90 - Pedro, you are prolific writer and a credit to your art. While I don't hold the passion or belief in BJJ that you do, I respect your opinions nonetheless. I think more people would appreciate and respect your art were it not for the Gracie's. Though you may not think so, they make BJJ a hard art to like and respect. They lack all the humility and all the graciousness that are hallmarks of the traditional arts and a bedrock belief and practice of their adherants. All the best....
@iwantastiffdrink bout 5 years ago i'd be on your side. but then someone broke it down to me. its just marketing. simple as that. just like how burger king wants you to think mcdonalds hamburgers suck. its just the business side. in reality while knowing how to grapple is very valuable so is striking. however niether should be looked at as the only way out of all situations. the gracies have been beaten. Badly. sakuraba, yoshida, matt hughes, king mo. all have smaked the gracies down before.
@tim72184 - One more thing... stand up/striking arts (the good ones-Karate, Kung fu, Hapkido, Jeet Kun do) rountinely train to defend against more than 1 opponent. More than two at once would be tough. But three or four in succession is very doable. Not so with BJJ. Look, my whole point was NOT to besmirch other arts (each has positives) but to put BJJ in perspective & give the Gracie's a dose of their own medicine. Videos like this are both absurd and taboo in the real world of martial arts.
@iwantastiffdrink Then we don't disagree on much after all. I would never take someone to the ground when there are more than one. All the Gracies ever wanted to prove was that their art could beat standup arts 1v1 because standup arts neglect the ground game. To be a complete martial artist these days requires studying at least one grappling art (Judo/JJ/BJJ) and one standup art (Karate, Kung Fu, etc, though I would not recommend TKD, cough). The Gracies themselves acknowledge this.
@iwantastiffdrink 3.) MMA is the closest you could possible get to training for a street fight without being in as streetfight. lots of wild swinging, takedowns, slams, punches on the ground. all found in street fights. + its all trained at full resistance. so your body becomes accustomed to fighting, being struct, getting hit etc. if you want proof google any streetfight video and notice how similar the two are.
@iwantastiffdrink 4.) final point. BJJ is very similiar to judo as it comes to self defense. there are many techniques that aren't done in MMA that BJJ fighters do. same as Wrestlers. its only the area useful for MMA> however as for it working on Teh ST33rz you should know that police officers are trained in it for subduing criminals, bouncers use it for subduing drunks, and while its not good for multiple attacks( much like any other system) its great for dealing with 1. not at all useless.
@iwantastiffdrink one more thing. Karate was designed so that people who had no weapons could learn to defend themselves after Japan outlawed them during there reign in okinawa. it wasn't made to "Kill all who stand in your way" and as you can cleary see from this video BJJ fighters a. don't need a soft surface seeing as this was done on tile. b.) don't need a time limit.
this vid is such shit y is it that in all these 'experts' of other styles all seem south american. ive never seen an thai master from thai land, an actual shaolin monk, and then there is kimura (and others). he was actually japanese, master of judo, and raped helio....im i the only one not an imbecile here?
ps all the blind people on the planet can see that no one in there is 13 fuckin years old
but hey, they made their money and exit. while people are left on a band wagon not going anywhere
@TENNSUMITSUMA He raped him and then asked him to teach at the Imperial school in Japan so impressed was he......with the tightness of his bunghole!? You're a tool. Jog on....
Some people are missing the point...There is no one system that is supreme other wise there would be no MIXED martial arts...we would be watching only Jiu jitsu on UFC...today fighters can neutralize BJJ by having a good take down defense. Don't get me wrong, I am a practitioner of Brazilian Jiu jitsu and it is by far one of the best systems in the real world but the fact is we are discussing martial ARTS. Which by definition (art) implies creativity and constant change and adaptation.
i have a massive amount of respect for anyone who trains hard and dedicates themselves to something positive, that being said in a one on one fight Jui-Jutsi does seem to be the most effective system. but the great thing about MMA is it takes what works best form ALL the systems, its a free flow off ideas, its open minded, it frees us form the dogma in traditional martial arts and it's competition rules are the closest to a "real" fight of all the combat sports. Multiple Attackers? Run like hell
Karate isn't about grappling, there are different rules for each martial art.. if karate was aloud to grapple and you got one amazing martial artist from juijitsu and karate its much more likely that karate would come out on top because then they have strikes, blokes etc etc there is no fair way. id say the same if i was a jui jitsu student.
Hey folks ! Sorry about my bad english, but let me try explain what was this video.
At this time, the karate was the most popular martial art in brazil, but the Gracies were gaining popularity with they jiu jitsu, defeting several oponnents.
Then, the people fron Karate mounted a challenge, to see whats is the better martial arts.
5 fights, the best fron karate, against the best fron jiu jitsu. What Happened
@felipebjj100 In one sense you are right but another I think you missing some jigsaw pieces there Bud.It can wholly depend on many factors one being in this case Jujutsu primarily focus on close quarter fighting.Karate we can fight close quarters or outer fighting.Then it can depend on that student your using for the fight.weather hes more comfatable with close quarer fighting or weather he prefares to stay at a certain distance and use Maai.
Yeah, I think by itself jiu jitsu has lots of strengths, but even the gracies preached about not limiting to one aspect of fighting
the gracies wanted to demonstrated that with their mastery of grappling, they could end fights without too much violence, but never said that as a martial artist, you shouldnt use strikes. royce and rorion both trained in muay thai and taekwondo for striking and clinch set-ups
@TruNikkaz They did not train in Tae Kwon Do, they only trained in Kickboxing(just look at Renzos style) but their fighting style was 90% Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, 2% Wrestling, and 8% Kickboxing in fights
I feel you need to cover all the bases from free movement to clinch then ground fighting so someone average at mixed martial arts could beat someone good at any single art. Bruce Lee was way ahead of his time with this idea coming away from tradition and not commiting to one style. The martial arts are still evolving.
if you're in a situation where you can commit to fighting one guy on the ground then yes JJ is great, but not if you want/need to be stand up....karate and JJ don't overlap and cannot be compared. You don't do JJ standing up, and you don't do Karate on the ground.
Jiu Jitsu is the ultimate martial art in my opinion. Why? Well because in bjj size and strength means nothing against technique. The objective in bjj is to get the fight to the ground an establish a position were the opponent can't move. Ofcourse in a situation were you are fighting multiple guys the objective is to get out as soon as possible and take the minumule hits. But even then Jiu Jitsu comes in handy because you learn how to get out of tight and uncomfortable positions.
JJ is a great sport and system on the ground, but in a real life fight, you take Karate over JJ 100% of the time....to do otherwise is just stupid. Show me a JJ champ, and I'll show you 2 guys off the street that can kick his ass....you can't say the same with karate
Bjj is good. The family is very friendly. It must be obvious by now that grappling and kick and punch systems are both important. Also, you must add the gouge and claw.
@AdverbAdjective Some brands are better than others, but taekwondo schools are notoriously weak in teaching defense. Hand techniques are de-emphasized. The kicks are cool but many are not practical in a real fight. You'd be better off practicing functional kicks in Muay Thai for example. (Looking back, I should have mentioned muay thai first, and I neglected it completely). Any art that has a realistic sparring component should be favored as well.
Read the news in October, 2002 - Gashuku (Kenyu-Ryu Karate Association Brazil) AKKB - ASSOCIAÇÃO KARATÊ KENYU-RYU BRASIL
With few participants, but to a very high technical level and with specific courses of Jiu-jitsu and karate (Daniel Sete Câmara) and Ki Breathing (Vail Mungai) and Special Techniques (Akio Yokoiama). The event was a complete success, like all others conducted by AKKB. See the photo illustrations at HISTÓRICO, on the bottom of the page at: wwwakkbcombr/
This was originally the reason for the pursuit of scientific approach to find a reasonable explanation for the facts below mentioned (Main subject here is the knowledge of fighting with empty hands) Conclusion: “As a sport activity Martial Arts aren't real” so only the military men know better this hidden truth. e.g. They’ll never smash the opponents throat, break a leg, neck bones or blind a fellow during a sport competition and of course just because It’s not a valid strategy.
We have seen several demonstrations in which practitioners of Karate can’t win the Ju-Jutsu fighters because the first ones don’t know what to do after being dropped to the ground. Long after the fight some of them use to tell that they couldn’t win without attacking the opponent's vital points.
MMA is not street fight, agreed. Striking arts are no more geared to deal with the mentioned situations than grappling arts, still no technical reason grapplers have an advantage. As far as the STR33TZ argument, it is better to come up with a solution based on your knowledge of fighting, leverage, control, technique, balance than some "technique" specific to a situation
MMA is not street fight, agreed. Striking arts are no more geared to deal with the mentioned situations than grappling arts, still no technical reason grapplers have an advantage. As far as the STR33TZ argument, it is better to come up with a solution based on your knowledge of fighting, leverage, control, technique, balance than some "technique" specific to a situation
Strikes that are illegal include kicking the face from the open or closed guard, the 12 to 6 elbow and punches to the back of the head, all of which are extremely useful to a grappler. It is a well established fact that mma and boxing gloves make you punch harder, not even gonna argue that. And the old "the gracies designed it so it obviously favors them" argument is invalid unless you have a actual TECHNICAL reason that a giant cage favors a grappler. The reason Rorion wanted a
I don't see why people always have to throw out the "oh but if this happened on the street with multiple people blah blah" yea but it didnt. just like if one guy attacks you won't be able to argue that either its futile to try and think of what if statements to try and put BJJ in some sort of corner. you see tons of videos of it working, and people would be better to just learn it. different situations require different approaches. or you end up like the karate guys. just learn it all.
If the karate school is sport oriented, they have even more restrictions than any street smart style. But obviosly groundfighting is important to know. I wonder why the karate guy didnt try to break fingers. Oh well
The cliche multiple opponents argument. If your being jumped, your going to the ground anyway. Hip throws, bear jug defenses, weapon defenses, the super slap, front and side kicks, clinching throwing and keeping the distance are all in the GJJA curriculum from the very beginning; another invalid argument perpetuated by YouTube forums
@lsloewen2 I was not putting down BJJ. I practice it. I was responding to someone else that I would not prefer to take a fight to the ground if I was outnumbered. That is all.
Can you actually break down how the UFC is tailor-made for BJJ? Is it the 5 minute rounds? The ref stand-ups? Or is it the mandatory lack-of clothing? Maybe it's the mandatory gloves, so people can hit harder than they would in real life? Or is it the cage, which people use to crush grapplers? Or all the techniques that are illegal? Throat grabs/ elbows to the head and such, things they use at GJJA; maybe that's how it's tailor made for BJJ
@lsloewen2 the ref stands you when he thinks everyone including you is about to fall asleep. the gloves are to protect your hands not to make you hit harder . would you put gloves on to go fight someone tomm cause you hit harder? the gracie family started the u.f.c and the cage has always been so it is likely that's what they wanted.and the things your saying are illegal are strikes whic you seem to think are worthless
@lsloewen2 mma is not necessarily tailror made for BJJ, but it IS geared to give grapplers an advantage, be they bjj or wrestlers.
A one-on-one fight with no groin attacks, eye gouging, hair-pulling, or biting. No chance of a bladed weapon being drawn by your opponent. No structural barriers,impediments,or other dangers on the ground (ie., broken glass,rough pavement,uneven surface,chairs, etc.) No chance of multiple attackers/friends jumping and stomping your head.
@iwantastiffdrink - If is was propaganda, don’t you think the karate practitioners would have posted the videos of them beating up on BJJ practitioners? Where are those videos? I know each story has two sides but when you search for (insert martial art here) vs BJJ you always end up with BJJ on top. It’s not like your searching for BJJ kicks (insert martial art here) ass.
I agree that BJJ is not the best martial art but when it comes to the ground game, it is hard to deny that BJJ is superior.
What a load of crap. Unless you are in a sporting event, inside a cage, with rules, a referee, smooth surfaces, a time limit, and a guarantee that nobody will jump in and assist your opponent, then embracing the Graciues and BJJ will get you killed. They suck. Their system sucks. It does ok in UFC & PRIDE only. Surest way to get maimed in the real world is to rely on BJJ. The Gracies need a huge dose of reality & humility. Total joke. Only dumbasses take this propaganda video seriously. LOL.
@iwantastiffdrink You need some respect my man. I'd like to see how much like joking you feel facing Roger Gracie lol The Gracie's have never said their style is perfect and that is not the premise of this video. It was just to show the world a different combat aspect that had not, at that time, previously been given much thought. Every Gracie I have met and trained with have been nothing but real and humble. Peace.
@MsAdolfHipster - The Gracie's are humble? Now that's funny as hell. Look at the evidence right under your nose!! This video is a propaganda piece - along w/ MANY others on YouTube that the Gracie's created which falsely malign other martial arts - that seeks to say (not so subtly) that BJJ is greatly superior to all others. They claim this by posting one-sided videos that purport to show the utter fultility of other arts when pitted against BJJ. That's dishonest, and it isn't humble. Sorry!
@iwantastiffdrink That's right. Everyone knows that in the real world, when attacked by 5 guys at once, all you gotta do is a few tornado kicks and you're golden.
@tim72184 - How positively absurd. That's the best you got? Put the old Karate Kid movies away and put the crack pipe down. In all my years as a martial artist, I have seen the tornado kick attempted just once and it was in a movie. Hey, why not try putting those 5 attackers in a kimura...one at a time, of course! I'm sure they'll all patiently wait. LOL! BJJ is a sport, not a martial art. As a sport, it's really great. As a means of real world self-defense, it will get you killed or maimed.
@iwantastiffdrink I don't think a martial art exists that would protect one against five attackers. Granted, if I had to deal with two, BJJ would not be the best candidate since you'd just be getting kicked on the ground. Against untrained people, I can see standup being far more effective. If assailed by 4-5 people who had training, you'd be pretty much screwed either way. BJJ is integral to any complete fighter, but it is not enough on its own, though it will beat any standup 1v1.
@tim72184 - Now you're making more sense. I have a hard time imagining a real world scenario where I would want to avoid striking, and go to the ground and get my attacker in a pretzel-like hold. We both agree that if you are going to use BJJ in some form, 1 on 1 is the only way (if then). But why wouldn't you dispose of this opponent w/ a few quick strikes? What's the attraction of wallowing on the ground when it can be avoided? Also, what does BJJ do that Japanese Jiu-Jitsu doesn't do better?
@iwantastiffdrink An experienced jiu-jitsu practitioner can almost always ground an experienced standup artist. It's the case time and time again. It's important to at least have a background in grappling. But to "dispose of the opponent in a few quick strikes..." it sounds to me like you have not fought very much. Sometimes the opponent can, well, block, and then get close enough that you can't hit him. Google BJJ v. any standup. BJJ wins 90% of the time, even when the artist is a noob.
@tim72184 - Clearly, I have failed to get you to see that BJJ vs anybody isn't compelling; if the clash is a sporting event. UFC is tailor made for BJJ. Winning in the "octagon" is a long cab ride away from winning in a bar fight, or at a ballgame, or at a fraternity party. In these real world scenarios, BJJ is a godawful liability and not an asset. As to grappling experience, I agree it's good to have some skills. But again, I'll take the original Japanese art over BJJ. Yours in budo...
@iwantastiffdrink sounds to me like you have the anit-gracie chip on your shoulder from videos like this. but hey, its effective. simple as that. people always throw out this multiple opponents like its the only thing that happens. what about ALLL millions of fights that are between 1on1 people. it seems to me you just don't like BJJ. this also comes from a lack of studying BJJ or seeing it outside of youtube. BJJ is a martial art just like Boxing, just like tkd not just sport. period.
@pedro90 - My problem w/ the Gracie's has always been their total lack of humility, their denegration of other arts, the making of clearly biased propaganda videos, and their propagation of myths. It's funny how all these BJJ videos that are slobbered over, are all either Gracie contrived stunts, or sporting events. No reality. Also, Karate, Kung Fu, Hapkido, et al, were designed to at minimum maim the opponent, or be lethal. UFC & Pride events handcuff traditional martial arts & dumb them down.
@iwantastiffdrink like i said the chip. You also have alot of the common martial arts misconceptions. 1.) i felt the same way about BJJ about 5 years ago then someone told me the truth- its just marketing. they know they aren't unbeatable the gracies have lost many times. What there doing is no different then the challenge matches that have been done against other styles ever since martial arts was invented. karate, judo, jiujitsu all did the same thing just not on the same grand scale.
@iwantastiffdrink 2.) The misconception that UFC and Pride events hand cuff the systems is absurd & comes from lack of knowledge. UFC 1-5 had absolutely no rules. NONE. & there were many karate fighters who entered & did well, but many did not. it was due to training methods & unfamiliarity with certain aspects of combat( grappling) why many failed. But there was no rule set that somehow limited any traditional stylists. seeing as there was no rules set. there wasn't even rounds or time limits.
@iwantastiffdrink as stated, nobody said the gracies are unbeatable, but if there were more videos of them loosing you'd have seen them. also /watch?v=9rfJerp-4ws so much for BJJ as well as MMA not being for real combat.
@pedro90 - Then we'll simply agree to disagree. The early UFC's were w/out rules. And with the exception of Dan Severn, Ken Shamrock, and Royce Gracie, they were without talent too. The fight cards were brimming with no names, journeymen, and wanna-be's. The UFC of today - from a talent comparison - is a whole different world. My point is simply this...UFC is a poor barometer of any martial arts' effectiveness in real world scenarios. But some arts are more suited to it's restraints than others.
@iwantastiffdrink your missing my point sir. Im not demanding that you become a BJJ fan or an MMA fan. I'm defending MMA as having the most effective way for training against how fights actually occur. at least in terms of 1v1. the mutliple opponents argument is stupid seeing as no system is going to see you through being jumped by 10 people. also I think your getting sport BJJ confused with self defense BJJ or GJJ. here /watch?v=Aeg926nPCGQ thats self defense you learn at a standard BJJ school.
@pedro90 - The "multiple opponents argument" is not stupid at all. 10 versus 1 is stupid, but you've to taken it to an exteme in order to try to make a point. 1 versus 2, or 1 versus 3 is not stupid, nor uncommon. Since BJJ has no defense against such odds makes your response understandable, but invalid nonetheless. BJJ has it's positives I suppose, but not nearly as many as you claim, nor near as many as the traditional martial arts do. If UFC is your thing then, by all means, please try BJJ.
@iwantastiffdrink i love how you completely just ignored all the proof i have presented to you. People like you amaze me. Im sure there was someone like you when the first gun was invented attempting to argue how it was ineffective for combat simply due to lack of effectiveness in one particular range. any reputable BJJ school teaches you throws, takedowns, and self-dfense techniques seperatly from its sport class. you have no leg to stand on. just ur strawman arguement.
@iwantastiffdrink simply put- what i have presented: every gracie challenge match- UFC1-5 which had no rules at all- the fact that knowing how to ground fight is very over looked & not somthing you can simply just wing- the fact that MMA is the most fullcontact no resistant- less restricted form training. what you have said: MMA is so restricted but not sited how. especially when it had no rules. the fact that you wouldn't ground fight one guy. no shit. you'd take down and kip going. like judo.
@iwantastiffdrink actually BJJ is more similar to Judo then japanese jiujitsu so it'd be similar to say what does BJJ do that Judo doesn't do better. to which one would say ground fight better- where as Judo has Better takedowns. however both are very neutral in comparison since there almost one in the same. but its easy to see that now your just speaking from your BJJ personal gripes not actually truths. your entitled to your opinion. but don't get it confused with truth. argument refuted again
@iwantastiffdrink finallythe multiples argument is stupid because its the only thing people like you ever argue against BJJ/MMA and its very weak. in BJJ self defense( not sport) your taught judo/and Jiujitsu takedowns throws and escapes. however your added with ground defense and fighting which most JJ schools skip or skim. and if your ever in the area where you end up on the ground its better you kno them- then not because you don't like the gracies marketing strategy. thats why its stupid.
@iwantastiffdrink a boxer isn't going to suck because theres no longer round timers, and a wrestler won't freeze up simply because he has pinned the guy. your martial arts as bruce lee said should bend and shape like water to the situation at hand. So if i can't run like any smart person would against more then one person. i'd simply use the clinch to maneaver him in directions to stop his buddy from hitting me, then take them down too. constantly moving. just like in Jap jiujitsu.
@iwantastiffdrink and finally. your idea is stupid because you seem to try and use one area that everyone is at a disadvantage at to try and prove that BJJ is complete and totally ineffective. but traditional aren't. it also shows you have never studied any BJJ to back up your ideas. everyone is at a disadvantage against mutliple guys. one woudl even argue its funny that you have to gang up on a BJJer to have a chance of beating him. since you can't defeat him 1v1. BJJ works well.
@pedro90 - Pedro, you are prolific writer and a credit to your art. While I don't hold the passion or belief in BJJ that you do, I respect your opinions nonetheless. I think more people would appreciate and respect your art were it not for the Gracie's. Though you may not think so, they make BJJ a hard art to like and respect. They lack all the humility and all the graciousness that are hallmarks of the traditional arts and a bedrock belief and practice of their adherants. All the best....
@iwantastiffdrink bout 5 years ago i'd be on your side. but then someone broke it down to me. its just marketing. simple as that. just like how burger king wants you to think mcdonalds hamburgers suck. its just the business side. in reality while knowing how to grapple is very valuable so is striking. however niether should be looked at as the only way out of all situations. the gracies have been beaten. Badly. sakuraba, yoshida, matt hughes, king mo. all have smaked the gracies down before.
@tim72184 - One more thing... stand up/striking arts (the good ones-Karate, Kung fu, Hapkido, Jeet Kun do) rountinely train to defend against more than 1 opponent. More than two at once would be tough. But three or four in succession is very doable. Not so with BJJ. Look, my whole point was NOT to besmirch other arts (each has positives) but to put BJJ in perspective & give the Gracie's a dose of their own medicine. Videos like this are both absurd and taboo in the real world of martial arts.
@iwantastiffdrink Then we don't disagree on much after all. I would never take someone to the ground when there are more than one. All the Gracies ever wanted to prove was that their art could beat standup arts 1v1 because standup arts neglect the ground game. To be a complete martial artist these days requires studying at least one grappling art (Judo/JJ/BJJ) and one standup art (Karate, Kung Fu, etc, though I would not recommend TKD, cough). The Gracies themselves acknowledge this.
@iwantastiffdrink 3.) MMA is the closest you could possible get to training for a street fight without being in as streetfight. lots of wild swinging, takedowns, slams, punches on the ground. all found in street fights. + its all trained at full resistance. so your body becomes accustomed to fighting, being struct, getting hit etc. if you want proof google any streetfight video and notice how similar the two are.
@iwantastiffdrink 4.) final point. BJJ is very similiar to judo as it comes to self defense. there are many techniques that aren't done in MMA that BJJ fighters do. same as Wrestlers. its only the area useful for MMA> however as for it working on Teh ST33rz you should know that police officers are trained in it for subduing criminals, bouncers use it for subduing drunks, and while its not good for multiple attacks( much like any other system) its great for dealing with 1. not at all useless.
@iwantastiffdrink one more thing. Karate was designed so that people who had no weapons could learn to defend themselves after Japan outlawed them during there reign in okinawa. it wasn't made to "Kill all who stand in your way" and as you can cleary see from this video BJJ fighters a. don't need a soft surface seeing as this was done on tile. b.) don't need a time limit.
this vid is such shit y is it that in all these 'experts' of other styles all seem south american. ive never seen an thai master from thai land, an actual shaolin monk, and then there is kimura (and others). he was actually japanese, master of judo, and raped helio....im i the only one not an imbecile here?
ps all the blind people on the planet can see that no one in there is 13 fuckin years old
but hey, they made their money and exit. while people are left on a band wagon not going anywhere
@TENNSUMITSUMA He raped him and then asked him to teach at the Imperial school in Japan so impressed was he......with the tightness of his bunghole!? You're a tool. Jog on....
Some people are missing the point...There is no one system that is supreme other wise there would be no MIXED martial arts...we would be watching only Jiu jitsu on UFC...today fighters can neutralize BJJ by having a good take down defense. Don't get me wrong, I am a practitioner of Brazilian Jiu jitsu and it is by far one of the best systems in the real world but the fact is we are discussing martial ARTS. Which by definition (art) implies creativity and constant change and adaptation.
i have a massive amount of respect for anyone who trains hard and dedicates themselves to something positive, that being said in a one on one fight Jui-Jutsi does seem to be the most effective system. but the great thing about MMA is it takes what works best form ALL the systems, its a free flow off ideas, its open minded, it frees us form the dogma in traditional martial arts and it's competition rules are the closest to a "real" fight of all the combat sports. Multiple Attackers? Run like hell
Karate isn't about grappling, there are different rules for each martial art.. if karate was aloud to grapple and you got one amazing martial artist from juijitsu and karate its much more likely that karate would come out on top because then they have strikes, blokes etc etc there is no fair way. id say the same if i was a jui jitsu student.
Hey folks ! Sorry about my bad english, but let me try explain what was this video.
At this time, the karate was the most popular martial art in brazil, but the Gracies were gaining popularity with they jiu jitsu, defeting several oponnents.
Then, the people fron Karate mounted a challenge, to see whats is the better martial arts.
5 fights, the best fron karate, against the best fron jiu jitsu. What Happened
@felipebjj100 In one sense you are right but another I think you missing some jigsaw pieces there Bud.It can wholly depend on many factors one being in this case Jujutsu primarily focus on close quarter fighting.Karate we can fight close quarters or outer fighting.Then it can depend on that student your using for the fight.weather hes more comfatable with close quarer fighting or weather he prefares to stay at a certain distance and use Maai.
Yeah, I think by itself jiu jitsu has lots of strengths, but even the gracies preached about not limiting to one aspect of fighting
the gracies wanted to demonstrated that with their mastery of grappling, they could end fights without too much violence, but never said that as a martial artist, you shouldnt use strikes. royce and rorion both trained in muay thai and taekwondo for striking and clinch set-ups
@TruNikkaz They did not train in Tae Kwon Do, they only trained in Kickboxing(just look at Renzos style) but their fighting style was 90% Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, 2% Wrestling, and 8% Kickboxing in fights
I feel you need to cover all the bases from free movement to clinch then ground fighting so someone average at mixed martial arts could beat someone good at any single art. Bruce Lee was way ahead of his time with this idea coming away from tradition and not commiting to one style. The martial arts are still evolving.
if you're in a situation where you can commit to fighting one guy on the ground then yes JJ is great, but not if you want/need to be stand up....karate and JJ don't overlap and cannot be compared. You don't do JJ standing up, and you don't do Karate on the ground.
Jiu Jitsu is the ultimate martial art in my opinion. Why? Well because in bjj size and strength means nothing against technique. The objective in bjj is to get the fight to the ground an establish a position were the opponent can't move. Ofcourse in a situation were you are fighting multiple guys the objective is to get out as soon as possible and take the minumule hits. But even then Jiu Jitsu comes in handy because you learn how to get out of tight and uncomfortable positions.
JJ is a great sport and system on the ground, but in a real life fight, you take Karate over JJ 100% of the time....to do otherwise is just stupid. Show me a JJ champ, and I'll show you 2 guys off the street that can kick his ass....you can't say the same with karate
JJ is cool but for real life it is totally inferior to Karate....in JJ you can only fight one person at once and you are totally vulnerable. To prove my point, I will take 2 guys off the street, together they will beat the beat JJ guy in the world. while they are doing JJ, the other guy comes and give the JJ guy a head stomp or strike to the head while he's tied up....fight over
JJ is cool but for real life it is totally inferior to Karate....in JJ you can only fight one person at once and you are totally vulnerable. To prove my point, I will take 2 guys off the street, together they will beat the best JJ guy in the world. while they are doing JJ, the other guy comes and give the JJ guy a head stomp or strike to the head while he's tied up....fight over
I should have said gjj is good. The family is very friendly.
IFironfingers 2 months ago
Bjj is good. The family is very friendly. It must be obvious by now that grappling and kick and punch systems are both important. Also, you must add the gouge and claw.
IFironfingers 2 months ago
@AdverbAdjective Some brands are better than others, but taekwondo schools are notoriously weak in teaching defense. Hand techniques are de-emphasized. The kicks are cool but many are not practical in a real fight. You'd be better off practicing functional kicks in Muay Thai for example. (Looking back, I should have mentioned muay thai first, and I neglected it completely). Any art that has a realistic sparring component should be favored as well.
tim72184 4 months ago
Read the news in October, 2002 - Gashuku (Kenyu-Ryu Karate Association Brazil) AKKB - ASSOCIAÇÃO KARATÊ KENYU-RYU BRASIL
With few participants, but to a very high technical level and with specific courses of Jiu-jitsu and karate (Daniel Sete Câmara) and Ki Breathing (Vail Mungai) and Special Techniques (Akio Yokoiama). The event was a complete success, like all others conducted by AKKB. See the photo illustrations at HISTÓRICO, on the bottom of the page at: wwwakkbcombr/
TheWolfjr 4 months ago
This was originally the reason for the pursuit of scientific approach to find a reasonable explanation for the facts below mentioned (Main subject here is the knowledge of fighting with empty hands) Conclusion: “As a sport activity Martial Arts aren't real” so only the military men know better this hidden truth. e.g. They’ll never smash the opponents throat, break a leg, neck bones or blind a fellow during a sport competition and of course just because It’s not a valid strategy.
TheWolfjr 4 months ago in playlist Karate World. (19 Styles)
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We have seen several demonstrations in which practitioners of Karate can’t win the Ju-Jutsu fighters because the first ones don’t know what to do after being dropped to the ground. Long after the fight some of them use to tell that they couldn’t win without attacking the opponent's vital points.
TheWolfjr 4 months ago in playlist Karate World. (19 Styles)
@theriobeserko
MMA is not street fight, agreed. Striking arts are no more geared to deal with the mentioned situations than grappling arts, still no technical reason grapplers have an advantage. As far as the STR33TZ argument, it is better to come up with a solution based on your knowledge of fighting, leverage, control, technique, balance than some "technique" specific to a situation
lsloewen2 5 months ago
@theriobeserko
MMA is not street fight, agreed. Striking arts are no more geared to deal with the mentioned situations than grappling arts, still no technical reason grapplers have an advantage. As far as the STR33TZ argument, it is better to come up with a solution based on your knowledge of fighting, leverage, control, technique, balance than some "technique" specific to a situation
lsloewen2 5 months ago
@bushytailable
Strikes that are illegal include kicking the face from the open or closed guard, the 12 to 6 elbow and punches to the back of the head, all of which are extremely useful to a grappler. It is a well established fact that mma and boxing gloves make you punch harder, not even gonna argue that. And the old "the gracies designed it so it obviously favors them" argument is invalid unless you have a actual TECHNICAL reason that a giant cage favors a grappler. The reason Rorion wanted a
lsloewen2 5 months ago
Question for BJJ fans... what can Brazilian Jiu Jitsu do, that Japanese Jiu Jitsu cannot do better?
iwantastiffdrink 6 months ago
I don't see why people always have to throw out the "oh but if this happened on the street with multiple people blah blah" yea but it didnt. just like if one guy attacks you won't be able to argue that either its futile to try and think of what if statements to try and put BJJ in some sort of corner. you see tons of videos of it working, and people would be better to just learn it. different situations require different approaches. or you end up like the karate guys. just learn it all.
pedro90 6 months ago
If the karate school is sport oriented, they have even more restrictions than any street smart style. But obviosly groundfighting is important to know. I wonder why the karate guy didnt try to break fingers. Oh well
milkskitmaker 6 months ago
@tim72184
The cliche multiple opponents argument. If your being jumped, your going to the ground anyway. Hip throws, bear jug defenses, weapon defenses, the super slap, front and side kicks, clinching throwing and keeping the distance are all in the GJJA curriculum from the very beginning; another invalid argument perpetuated by YouTube forums
lsloewen2 6 months ago
@lsloewen2 I was not putting down BJJ. I practice it. I was responding to someone else that I would not prefer to take a fight to the ground if I was outnumbered. That is all.
tim72184 6 months ago
@iwantastiffdrink
Can you actually break down how the UFC is tailor-made for BJJ? Is it the 5 minute rounds? The ref stand-ups? Or is it the mandatory lack-of clothing? Maybe it's the mandatory gloves, so people can hit harder than they would in real life? Or is it the cage, which people use to crush grapplers? Or all the techniques that are illegal? Throat grabs/ elbows to the head and such, things they use at GJJA; maybe that's how it's tailor made for BJJ
lsloewen2 6 months ago 9
@lsloewen2 HAHAHA amazing point!
k00lkane 6 months ago
@lsloewen2 the ref stands you when he thinks everyone including you is about to fall asleep. the gloves are to protect your hands not to make you hit harder . would you put gloves on to go fight someone tomm cause you hit harder? the gracie family started the u.f.c and the cage has always been so it is likely that's what they wanted.and the things your saying are illegal are strikes whic you seem to think are worthless
bushytailable 5 months ago
@lsloewen2 mma is not necessarily tailror made for BJJ, but it IS geared to give grapplers an advantage, be they bjj or wrestlers.
A one-on-one fight with no groin attacks, eye gouging, hair-pulling, or biting. No chance of a bladed weapon being drawn by your opponent. No structural barriers,impediments,or other dangers on the ground (ie., broken glass,rough pavement,uneven surface,chairs, etc.) No chance of multiple attackers/friends jumping and stomping your head.
MMA is not a street fight!
TheRiobezerko 5 months ago
Fuck bjj vs. Karate. Just learn both!
kickurassable 7 months ago in playlist BJJ VS. Everyone else
1) Grappling works best in 1 on 1 scenario.
2) In multiple assailant scenario do not take the fight on ground.If you do you an average a max of 3 seconds to get back up.
3) Another rule at any given moment only five assailant can engage you in a ring not more.
4) One more important fact is that in real life and death fight low kicks to vital organs are more effective.
These are rules taught to commando forces and also constitute an integral part of Hybrid martial arts like Krav Maga.
abghosh2 7 months ago in playlist fights/mma,thai,boxing,street,animals,ect
@iwantastiffdrink - If is was propaganda, don’t you think the karate practitioners would have posted the videos of them beating up on BJJ practitioners? Where are those videos? I know each story has two sides but when you search for (insert martial art here) vs BJJ you always end up with BJJ on top. It’s not like your searching for BJJ kicks (insert martial art here) ass.
I agree that BJJ is not the best martial art but when it comes to the ground game, it is hard to deny that BJJ is superior.
PUNKDAD360 7 months ago in playlist BJJ VS. Everyone else
Brazilian jiu jitsu best fighting system ever.
karate is useless against grapplers.
BluePittbull666 8 months ago
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iwantastiffdrink 8 months ago
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iwantastiffdrink 8 months ago
What a load of crap. Unless you are in a sporting event, inside a cage, with rules, a referee, smooth surfaces, a time limit, and a guarantee that nobody will jump in and assist your opponent, then embracing the Graciues and BJJ will get you killed. They suck. Their system sucks. It does ok in UFC & PRIDE only. Surest way to get maimed in the real world is to rely on BJJ. The Gracies need a huge dose of reality & humility. Total joke. Only dumbasses take this propaganda video seriously. LOL.
iwantastiffdrink 8 months ago
@iwantastiffdrink You need some respect my man. I'd like to see how much like joking you feel facing Roger Gracie lol The Gracie's have never said their style is perfect and that is not the premise of this video. It was just to show the world a different combat aspect that had not, at that time, previously been given much thought. Every Gracie I have met and trained with have been nothing but real and humble. Peace.
MsAdolfHipster 8 months ago
@MsAdolfHipster - The Gracie's are humble? Now that's funny as hell. Look at the evidence right under your nose!! This video is a propaganda piece - along w/ MANY others on YouTube that the Gracie's created which falsely malign other martial arts - that seeks to say (not so subtly) that BJJ is greatly superior to all others. They claim this by posting one-sided videos that purport to show the utter fultility of other arts when pitted against BJJ. That's dishonest, and it isn't humble. Sorry!
iwantastiffdrink 8 months ago
@iwantastiffdrink That's right. Everyone knows that in the real world, when attacked by 5 guys at once, all you gotta do is a few tornado kicks and you're golden.
tim72184 7 months ago
@tim72184 - How positively absurd. That's the best you got? Put the old Karate Kid movies away and put the crack pipe down. In all my years as a martial artist, I have seen the tornado kick attempted just once and it was in a movie. Hey, why not try putting those 5 attackers in a kimura...one at a time, of course! I'm sure they'll all patiently wait. LOL! BJJ is a sport, not a martial art. As a sport, it's really great. As a means of real world self-defense, it will get you killed or maimed.
iwantastiffdrink 7 months ago
@iwantastiffdrink I don't think a martial art exists that would protect one against five attackers. Granted, if I had to deal with two, BJJ would not be the best candidate since you'd just be getting kicked on the ground. Against untrained people, I can see standup being far more effective. If assailed by 4-5 people who had training, you'd be pretty much screwed either way. BJJ is integral to any complete fighter, but it is not enough on its own, though it will beat any standup 1v1.
tim72184 7 months ago
@tim72184 - Now you're making more sense. I have a hard time imagining a real world scenario where I would want to avoid striking, and go to the ground and get my attacker in a pretzel-like hold. We both agree that if you are going to use BJJ in some form, 1 on 1 is the only way (if then). But why wouldn't you dispose of this opponent w/ a few quick strikes? What's the attraction of wallowing on the ground when it can be avoided? Also, what does BJJ do that Japanese Jiu-Jitsu doesn't do better?
iwantastiffdrink 7 months ago
@iwantastiffdrink An experienced jiu-jitsu practitioner can almost always ground an experienced standup artist. It's the case time and time again. It's important to at least have a background in grappling. But to "dispose of the opponent in a few quick strikes..." it sounds to me like you have not fought very much. Sometimes the opponent can, well, block, and then get close enough that you can't hit him. Google BJJ v. any standup. BJJ wins 90% of the time, even when the artist is a noob.
tim72184 7 months ago
@tim72184 - Clearly, I have failed to get you to see that BJJ vs anybody isn't compelling; if the clash is a sporting event. UFC is tailor made for BJJ. Winning in the "octagon" is a long cab ride away from winning in a bar fight, or at a ballgame, or at a fraternity party. In these real world scenarios, BJJ is a godawful liability and not an asset. As to grappling experience, I agree it's good to have some skills. But again, I'll take the original Japanese art over BJJ. Yours in budo...
iwantastiffdrink 7 months ago
@iwantastiffdrink sounds to me like you have the anit-gracie chip on your shoulder from videos like this. but hey, its effective. simple as that. people always throw out this multiple opponents like its the only thing that happens. what about ALLL millions of fights that are between 1on1 people. it seems to me you just don't like BJJ. this also comes from a lack of studying BJJ or seeing it outside of youtube. BJJ is a martial art just like Boxing, just like tkd not just sport. period.
pedro90 6 months ago
@pedro90 - My problem w/ the Gracie's has always been their total lack of humility, their denegration of other arts, the making of clearly biased propaganda videos, and their propagation of myths. It's funny how all these BJJ videos that are slobbered over, are all either Gracie contrived stunts, or sporting events. No reality. Also, Karate, Kung Fu, Hapkido, et al, were designed to at minimum maim the opponent, or be lethal. UFC & Pride events handcuff traditional martial arts & dumb them down.
iwantastiffdrink 6 months ago
@iwantastiffdrink like i said the chip. You also have alot of the common martial arts misconceptions. 1.) i felt the same way about BJJ about 5 years ago then someone told me the truth- its just marketing. they know they aren't unbeatable the gracies have lost many times. What there doing is no different then the challenge matches that have been done against other styles ever since martial arts was invented. karate, judo, jiujitsu all did the same thing just not on the same grand scale.
pedro90 6 months ago
@iwantastiffdrink 2.) The misconception that UFC and Pride events hand cuff the systems is absurd & comes from lack of knowledge. UFC 1-5 had absolutely no rules. NONE. & there were many karate fighters who entered & did well, but many did not. it was due to training methods & unfamiliarity with certain aspects of combat( grappling) why many failed. But there was no rule set that somehow limited any traditional stylists. seeing as there was no rules set. there wasn't even rounds or time limits.
pedro90 6 months ago
@iwantastiffdrink as stated, nobody said the gracies are unbeatable, but if there were more videos of them loosing you'd have seen them. also /watch?v=9rfJerp-4ws so much for BJJ as well as MMA not being for real combat.
pedro90 6 months ago
@pedro90 - Then we'll simply agree to disagree. The early UFC's were w/out rules. And with the exception of Dan Severn, Ken Shamrock, and Royce Gracie, they were without talent too. The fight cards were brimming with no names, journeymen, and wanna-be's. The UFC of today - from a talent comparison - is a whole different world. My point is simply this...UFC is a poor barometer of any martial arts' effectiveness in real world scenarios. But some arts are more suited to it's restraints than others.
iwantastiffdrink 6 months ago
@iwantastiffdrink your missing my point sir. Im not demanding that you become a BJJ fan or an MMA fan. I'm defending MMA as having the most effective way for training against how fights actually occur. at least in terms of 1v1. the mutliple opponents argument is stupid seeing as no system is going to see you through being jumped by 10 people. also I think your getting sport BJJ confused with self defense BJJ or GJJ. here /watch?v=Aeg926nPCGQ thats self defense you learn at a standard BJJ school.
pedro90 6 months ago
@pedro90 - The "multiple opponents argument" is not stupid at all. 10 versus 1 is stupid, but you've to taken it to an exteme in order to try to make a point. 1 versus 2, or 1 versus 3 is not stupid, nor uncommon. Since BJJ has no defense against such odds makes your response understandable, but invalid nonetheless. BJJ has it's positives I suppose, but not nearly as many as you claim, nor near as many as the traditional martial arts do. If UFC is your thing then, by all means, please try BJJ.
iwantastiffdrink 6 months ago
@iwantastiffdrink i love how you completely just ignored all the proof i have presented to you. People like you amaze me. Im sure there was someone like you when the first gun was invented attempting to argue how it was ineffective for combat simply due to lack of effectiveness in one particular range. any reputable BJJ school teaches you throws, takedowns, and self-dfense techniques seperatly from its sport class. you have no leg to stand on. just ur strawman arguement.
pedro90 6 months ago
@iwantastiffdrink simply put- what i have presented: every gracie challenge match- UFC1-5 which had no rules at all- the fact that knowing how to ground fight is very over looked & not somthing you can simply just wing- the fact that MMA is the most fullcontact no resistant- less restricted form training. what you have said: MMA is so restricted but not sited how. especially when it had no rules. the fact that you wouldn't ground fight one guy. no shit. you'd take down and kip going. like judo.
pedro90 6 months ago
@iwantastiffdrink actually BJJ is more similar to Judo then japanese jiujitsu so it'd be similar to say what does BJJ do that Judo doesn't do better. to which one would say ground fight better- where as Judo has Better takedowns. however both are very neutral in comparison since there almost one in the same. but its easy to see that now your just speaking from your BJJ personal gripes not actually truths. your entitled to your opinion. but don't get it confused with truth. argument refuted again
pedro90 6 months ago
@iwantastiffdrink finallythe multiples argument is stupid because its the only thing people like you ever argue against BJJ/MMA and its very weak. in BJJ self defense( not sport) your taught judo/and Jiujitsu takedowns throws and escapes. however your added with ground defense and fighting which most JJ schools skip or skim. and if your ever in the area where you end up on the ground its better you kno them- then not because you don't like the gracies marketing strategy. thats why its stupid.
pedro90 6 months ago
@iwantastiffdrink a boxer isn't going to suck because theres no longer round timers, and a wrestler won't freeze up simply because he has pinned the guy. your martial arts as bruce lee said should bend and shape like water to the situation at hand. So if i can't run like any smart person would against more then one person. i'd simply use the clinch to maneaver him in directions to stop his buddy from hitting me, then take them down too. constantly moving. just like in Jap jiujitsu.
pedro90 6 months ago
@iwantastiffdrink and finally. your idea is stupid because you seem to try and use one area that everyone is at a disadvantage at to try and prove that BJJ is complete and totally ineffective. but traditional aren't. it also shows you have never studied any BJJ to back up your ideas. everyone is at a disadvantage against mutliple guys. one woudl even argue its funny that you have to gang up on a BJJer to have a chance of beating him. since you can't defeat him 1v1. BJJ works well.
pedro90 6 months ago
@pedro90 - Pedro, you are prolific writer and a credit to your art. While I don't hold the passion or belief in BJJ that you do, I respect your opinions nonetheless. I think more people would appreciate and respect your art were it not for the Gracie's. Though you may not think so, they make BJJ a hard art to like and respect. They lack all the humility and all the graciousness that are hallmarks of the traditional arts and a bedrock belief and practice of their adherants. All the best....
iwantastiffdrink 6 months ago
@iwantastiffdrink bout 5 years ago i'd be on your side. but then someone broke it down to me. its just marketing. simple as that. just like how burger king wants you to think mcdonalds hamburgers suck. its just the business side. in reality while knowing how to grapple is very valuable so is striking. however niether should be looked at as the only way out of all situations. the gracies have been beaten. Badly. sakuraba, yoshida, matt hughes, king mo. all have smaked the gracies down before.
pedro90 6 months ago
@tim72184 - One more thing... stand up/striking arts (the good ones-Karate, Kung fu, Hapkido, Jeet Kun do) rountinely train to defend against more than 1 opponent. More than two at once would be tough. But three or four in succession is very doable. Not so with BJJ. Look, my whole point was NOT to besmirch other arts (each has positives) but to put BJJ in perspective & give the Gracie's a dose of their own medicine. Videos like this are both absurd and taboo in the real world of martial arts.
iwantastiffdrink 7 months ago
@iwantastiffdrink Then we don't disagree on much after all. I would never take someone to the ground when there are more than one. All the Gracies ever wanted to prove was that their art could beat standup arts 1v1 because standup arts neglect the ground game. To be a complete martial artist these days requires studying at least one grappling art (Judo/JJ/BJJ) and one standup art (Karate, Kung Fu, etc, though I would not recommend TKD, cough). The Gracies themselves acknowledge this.
tim72184 7 months ago 2
@iwantastiffdrink 3.) MMA is the closest you could possible get to training for a street fight without being in as streetfight. lots of wild swinging, takedowns, slams, punches on the ground. all found in street fights. + its all trained at full resistance. so your body becomes accustomed to fighting, being struct, getting hit etc. if you want proof google any streetfight video and notice how similar the two are.
pedro90 6 months ago
@iwantastiffdrink 4.) final point. BJJ is very similiar to judo as it comes to self defense. there are many techniques that aren't done in MMA that BJJ fighters do. same as Wrestlers. its only the area useful for MMA> however as for it working on Teh ST33rz you should know that police officers are trained in it for subduing criminals, bouncers use it for subduing drunks, and while its not good for multiple attacks( much like any other system) its great for dealing with 1. not at all useless.
pedro90 6 months ago
@iwantastiffdrink one more thing. Karate was designed so that people who had no weapons could learn to defend themselves after Japan outlawed them during there reign in okinawa. it wasn't made to "Kill all who stand in your way" and as you can cleary see from this video BJJ fighters a. don't need a soft surface seeing as this was done on tile. b.) don't need a time limit.
pedro90 6 months ago
this vid is such shit y is it that in all these 'experts' of other styles all seem south american. ive never seen an thai master from thai land, an actual shaolin monk, and then there is kimura (and others). he was actually japanese, master of judo, and raped helio....im i the only one not an imbecile here?
ps all the blind people on the planet can see that no one in there is 13 fuckin years old
but hey, they made their money and exit. while people are left on a band wagon not going anywhere
TENNSUMITSUMA 8 months ago in playlist BJJ VS. Everyone else
@TENNSUMITSUMA He raped him and then asked him to teach at the Imperial school in Japan so impressed was he......with the tightness of his bunghole!? You're a tool. Jog on....
MsAdolfHipster 8 months ago
@MsAdolfHipster
....yeah whatever, bitch.
asked to teach at the school, so the gracies say
TENNSUMITSUMA 8 months ago
Some people are missing the point...There is no one system that is supreme other wise there would be no MIXED martial arts...we would be watching only Jiu jitsu on UFC...today fighters can neutralize BJJ by having a good take down defense. Don't get me wrong, I am a practitioner of Brazilian Jiu jitsu and it is by far one of the best systems in the real world but the fact is we are discussing martial ARTS. Which by definition (art) implies creativity and constant change and adaptation.
johnnytnyc08 8 months ago
karate sucks.
Brasilian jiu jitsu & MMA best fighting system ever.
Brazil forever.
BluePittbull666 9 months ago
i have a massive amount of respect for anyone who trains hard and dedicates themselves to something positive, that being said in a one on one fight Jui-Jutsi does seem to be the most effective system. but the great thing about MMA is it takes what works best form ALL the systems, its a free flow off ideas, its open minded, it frees us form the dogma in traditional martial arts and it's competition rules are the closest to a "real" fight of all the combat sports. Multiple Attackers? Run like hell
tadhg964 9 months ago
No sense in this at all.
They are two completely different things.
obviously jui jitsu would come out on top.
Karate isn't about grappling, there are different rules for each martial art.. if karate was aloud to grapple and you got one amazing martial artist from juijitsu and karate its much more likely that karate would come out on top because then they have strikes, blokes etc etc there is no fair way. id say the same if i was a jui jitsu student.
AcornsAndAntlers 9 months ago
Awesome vid, keep em comin. Just posted a similar vid, check it out.
I train at one of the gracie headquarters in florida
asimmiami1 11 months ago
Hélio Gracie e Mestre Bimba sem comentários
lukaskm93 1 year ago
Hey folks ! Sorry about my bad english, but let me try explain what was this video.
At this time, the karate was the most popular martial art in brazil, but the Gracies were gaining popularity with they jiu jitsu, defeting several oponnents.
Then, the people fron Karate mounted a challenge, to see whats is the better martial arts.
5 fights, the best fron karate, against the best fron jiu jitsu. What Happened
5 wins for jiu jitsu.
Thnaks.
felipebjj100 1 year ago
@felipebjj100 In one sense you are right but another I think you missing some jigsaw pieces there Bud.It can wholly depend on many factors one being in this case Jujutsu primarily focus on close quarter fighting.Karate we can fight close quarters or outer fighting.Then it can depend on that student your using for the fight.weather hes more comfatable with close quarer fighting or weather he prefares to stay at a certain distance and use Maai.
jason41760 11 months ago
@jason41760 Yeah but its mainly outer fighting and striking .
parks2000 10 months ago
@felipebjj100 the best from Karate? hahahaha
sanhaua 8 months ago
there is nothing that can beat brazilian jiu jitsu. Brazil is the best in everything thanks gracie family
Pedrohenrique040304 1 year ago
Yeah, I think by itself jiu jitsu has lots of strengths, but even the gracies preached about not limiting to one aspect of fighting
the gracies wanted to demonstrated that with their mastery of grappling, they could end fights without too much violence, but never said that as a martial artist, you shouldnt use strikes. royce and rorion both trained in muay thai and taekwondo for striking and clinch set-ups
TruNikkaz 1 year ago
@TruNikkaz They did not train in Tae Kwon Do, they only trained in Kickboxing(just look at Renzos style) but their fighting style was 90% Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, 2% Wrestling, and 8% Kickboxing in fights
parks2000 10 months ago
@parks2000
royce and rorion both trained in taewkondo
TruNikkaz 10 months ago
I feel you need to cover all the bases from free movement to clinch then ground fighting so someone average at mixed martial arts could beat someone good at any single art. Bruce Lee was way ahead of his time with this idea coming away from tradition and not commiting to one style. The martial arts are still evolving.
VolcanoMr 1 year ago
if you're in a situation where you can commit to fighting one guy on the ground then yes JJ is great, but not if you want/need to be stand up....karate and JJ don't overlap and cannot be compared. You don't do JJ standing up, and you don't do Karate on the ground.
ashalchi 1 year ago
Jiu Jitsu is the ultimate martial art in my opinion. Why? Well because in bjj size and strength means nothing against technique. The objective in bjj is to get the fight to the ground an establish a position were the opponent can't move. Ofcourse in a situation were you are fighting multiple guys the objective is to get out as soon as possible and take the minumule hits. But even then Jiu Jitsu comes in handy because you learn how to get out of tight and uncomfortable positions.
lamalol121 1 year ago
JJ is a great sport and system on the ground, but in a real life fight, you take Karate over JJ 100% of the time....to do otherwise is just stupid. Show me a JJ champ, and I'll show you 2 guys off the street that can kick his ass....you can't say the same with karate
ashalchi 1 year ago
@ashalchi buena esa... considero que un buen karateca puede deshacerse de cualquier competidor... solo con entrenamiento adecuado..
dylankarate 1 year ago
@ashalchi thats fucking stupid
Shadow2271 8 months ago
@ashalchi no martial art can take multiple opponents efficiently.
IamVeryFrozen 2 months ago
I should have said gjj is good. The family is very friendly.
IFironfingers 2 months ago
Bjj is good. The family is very friendly. It must be obvious by now that grappling and kick and punch systems are both important. Also, you must add the gouge and claw.
IFironfingers 2 months ago
@AdverbAdjective Some brands are better than others, but taekwondo schools are notoriously weak in teaching defense. Hand techniques are de-emphasized. The kicks are cool but many are not practical in a real fight. You'd be better off practicing functional kicks in Muay Thai for example. (Looking back, I should have mentioned muay thai first, and I neglected it completely). Any art that has a realistic sparring component should be favored as well.
tim72184 4 months ago
Read the news in October, 2002 - Gashuku (Kenyu-Ryu Karate Association Brazil) AKKB - ASSOCIAÇÃO KARATÊ KENYU-RYU BRASIL
With few participants, but to a very high technical level and with specific courses of Jiu-jitsu and karate (Daniel Sete Câmara) and Ki Breathing (Vail Mungai) and Special Techniques (Akio Yokoiama). The event was a complete success, like all others conducted by AKKB. See the photo illustrations at HISTÓRICO, on the bottom of the page at: wwwakkbcombr/
TheWolfjr 4 months ago
This was originally the reason for the pursuit of scientific approach to find a reasonable explanation for the facts below mentioned (Main subject here is the knowledge of fighting with empty hands) Conclusion: “As a sport activity Martial Arts aren't real” so only the military men know better this hidden truth. e.g. They’ll never smash the opponents throat, break a leg, neck bones or blind a fellow during a sport competition and of course just because It’s not a valid strategy.
TheWolfjr 4 months ago in playlist Karate World. (19 Styles)
This has been flagged as spam show
We have seen several demonstrations in which practitioners of Karate can’t win the Ju-Jutsu fighters because the first ones don’t know what to do after being dropped to the ground. Long after the fight some of them use to tell that they couldn’t win without attacking the opponent's vital points.
TheWolfjr 4 months ago in playlist Karate World. (19 Styles)
@theriobeserko
MMA is not street fight, agreed. Striking arts are no more geared to deal with the mentioned situations than grappling arts, still no technical reason grapplers have an advantage. As far as the STR33TZ argument, it is better to come up with a solution based on your knowledge of fighting, leverage, control, technique, balance than some "technique" specific to a situation
lsloewen2 5 months ago
@theriobeserko
MMA is not street fight, agreed. Striking arts are no more geared to deal with the mentioned situations than grappling arts, still no technical reason grapplers have an advantage. As far as the STR33TZ argument, it is better to come up with a solution based on your knowledge of fighting, leverage, control, technique, balance than some "technique" specific to a situation
lsloewen2 5 months ago
@bushytailable
Strikes that are illegal include kicking the face from the open or closed guard, the 12 to 6 elbow and punches to the back of the head, all of which are extremely useful to a grappler. It is a well established fact that mma and boxing gloves make you punch harder, not even gonna argue that. And the old "the gracies designed it so it obviously favors them" argument is invalid unless you have a actual TECHNICAL reason that a giant cage favors a grappler. The reason Rorion wanted a
lsloewen2 5 months ago
Question for BJJ fans... what can Brazilian Jiu Jitsu do, that Japanese Jiu Jitsu cannot do better?
iwantastiffdrink 6 months ago
I don't see why people always have to throw out the "oh but if this happened on the street with multiple people blah blah" yea but it didnt. just like if one guy attacks you won't be able to argue that either its futile to try and think of what if statements to try and put BJJ in some sort of corner. you see tons of videos of it working, and people would be better to just learn it. different situations require different approaches. or you end up like the karate guys. just learn it all.
pedro90 6 months ago
If the karate school is sport oriented, they have even more restrictions than any street smart style. But obviosly groundfighting is important to know. I wonder why the karate guy didnt try to break fingers. Oh well
milkskitmaker 6 months ago
@tim72184
The cliche multiple opponents argument. If your being jumped, your going to the ground anyway. Hip throws, bear jug defenses, weapon defenses, the super slap, front and side kicks, clinching throwing and keeping the distance are all in the GJJA curriculum from the very beginning; another invalid argument perpetuated by YouTube forums
lsloewen2 6 months ago
@lsloewen2 I was not putting down BJJ. I practice it. I was responding to someone else that I would not prefer to take a fight to the ground if I was outnumbered. That is all.
tim72184 6 months ago
@iwantastiffdrink
Can you actually break down how the UFC is tailor-made for BJJ? Is it the 5 minute rounds? The ref stand-ups? Or is it the mandatory lack-of clothing? Maybe it's the mandatory gloves, so people can hit harder than they would in real life? Or is it the cage, which people use to crush grapplers? Or all the techniques that are illegal? Throat grabs/ elbows to the head and such, things they use at GJJA; maybe that's how it's tailor made for BJJ
lsloewen2 6 months ago 9
@lsloewen2 HAHAHA amazing point!
k00lkane 6 months ago
@lsloewen2 the ref stands you when he thinks everyone including you is about to fall asleep. the gloves are to protect your hands not to make you hit harder . would you put gloves on to go fight someone tomm cause you hit harder? the gracie family started the u.f.c and the cage has always been so it is likely that's what they wanted.and the things your saying are illegal are strikes whic you seem to think are worthless
bushytailable 5 months ago
@lsloewen2 mma is not necessarily tailror made for BJJ, but it IS geared to give grapplers an advantage, be they bjj or wrestlers.
A one-on-one fight with no groin attacks, eye gouging, hair-pulling, or biting. No chance of a bladed weapon being drawn by your opponent. No structural barriers,impediments,or other dangers on the ground (ie., broken glass,rough pavement,uneven surface,chairs, etc.) No chance of multiple attackers/friends jumping and stomping your head.
MMA is not a street fight!
TheRiobezerko 5 months ago
Fuck bjj vs. Karate. Just learn both!
kickurassable 7 months ago in playlist BJJ VS. Everyone else
1) Grappling works best in 1 on 1 scenario.
2) In multiple assailant scenario do not take the fight on ground.If you do you an average a max of 3 seconds to get back up.
3) Another rule at any given moment only five assailant can engage you in a ring not more.
4) One more important fact is that in real life and death fight low kicks to vital organs are more effective.
These are rules taught to commando forces and also constitute an integral part of Hybrid martial arts like Krav Maga.
abghosh2 7 months ago in playlist fights/mma,thai,boxing,street,animals,ect
@iwantastiffdrink - If is was propaganda, don’t you think the karate practitioners would have posted the videos of them beating up on BJJ practitioners? Where are those videos? I know each story has two sides but when you search for (insert martial art here) vs BJJ you always end up with BJJ on top. It’s not like your searching for BJJ kicks (insert martial art here) ass.
I agree that BJJ is not the best martial art but when it comes to the ground game, it is hard to deny that BJJ is superior.
PUNKDAD360 7 months ago in playlist BJJ VS. Everyone else
Brazilian jiu jitsu best fighting system ever.
karate is useless against grapplers.
BluePittbull666 8 months ago
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iwantastiffdrink 8 months ago
Comment removed
iwantastiffdrink 8 months ago
What a load of crap. Unless you are in a sporting event, inside a cage, with rules, a referee, smooth surfaces, a time limit, and a guarantee that nobody will jump in and assist your opponent, then embracing the Graciues and BJJ will get you killed. They suck. Their system sucks. It does ok in UFC & PRIDE only. Surest way to get maimed in the real world is to rely on BJJ. The Gracies need a huge dose of reality & humility. Total joke. Only dumbasses take this propaganda video seriously. LOL.
iwantastiffdrink 8 months ago
@iwantastiffdrink You need some respect my man. I'd like to see how much like joking you feel facing Roger Gracie lol The Gracie's have never said their style is perfect and that is not the premise of this video. It was just to show the world a different combat aspect that had not, at that time, previously been given much thought. Every Gracie I have met and trained with have been nothing but real and humble. Peace.
MsAdolfHipster 8 months ago
@MsAdolfHipster - The Gracie's are humble? Now that's funny as hell. Look at the evidence right under your nose!! This video is a propaganda piece - along w/ MANY others on YouTube that the Gracie's created which falsely malign other martial arts - that seeks to say (not so subtly) that BJJ is greatly superior to all others. They claim this by posting one-sided videos that purport to show the utter fultility of other arts when pitted against BJJ. That's dishonest, and it isn't humble. Sorry!
iwantastiffdrink 8 months ago
@iwantastiffdrink That's right. Everyone knows that in the real world, when attacked by 5 guys at once, all you gotta do is a few tornado kicks and you're golden.
tim72184 7 months ago
@tim72184 - How positively absurd. That's the best you got? Put the old Karate Kid movies away and put the crack pipe down. In all my years as a martial artist, I have seen the tornado kick attempted just once and it was in a movie. Hey, why not try putting those 5 attackers in a kimura...one at a time, of course! I'm sure they'll all patiently wait. LOL! BJJ is a sport, not a martial art. As a sport, it's really great. As a means of real world self-defense, it will get you killed or maimed.
iwantastiffdrink 7 months ago
@iwantastiffdrink I don't think a martial art exists that would protect one against five attackers. Granted, if I had to deal with two, BJJ would not be the best candidate since you'd just be getting kicked on the ground. Against untrained people, I can see standup being far more effective. If assailed by 4-5 people who had training, you'd be pretty much screwed either way. BJJ is integral to any complete fighter, but it is not enough on its own, though it will beat any standup 1v1.
tim72184 7 months ago
@tim72184 - Now you're making more sense. I have a hard time imagining a real world scenario where I would want to avoid striking, and go to the ground and get my attacker in a pretzel-like hold. We both agree that if you are going to use BJJ in some form, 1 on 1 is the only way (if then). But why wouldn't you dispose of this opponent w/ a few quick strikes? What's the attraction of wallowing on the ground when it can be avoided? Also, what does BJJ do that Japanese Jiu-Jitsu doesn't do better?
iwantastiffdrink 7 months ago
@iwantastiffdrink An experienced jiu-jitsu practitioner can almost always ground an experienced standup artist. It's the case time and time again. It's important to at least have a background in grappling. But to "dispose of the opponent in a few quick strikes..." it sounds to me like you have not fought very much. Sometimes the opponent can, well, block, and then get close enough that you can't hit him. Google BJJ v. any standup. BJJ wins 90% of the time, even when the artist is a noob.
tim72184 7 months ago
@tim72184 - Clearly, I have failed to get you to see that BJJ vs anybody isn't compelling; if the clash is a sporting event. UFC is tailor made for BJJ. Winning in the "octagon" is a long cab ride away from winning in a bar fight, or at a ballgame, or at a fraternity party. In these real world scenarios, BJJ is a godawful liability and not an asset. As to grappling experience, I agree it's good to have some skills. But again, I'll take the original Japanese art over BJJ. Yours in budo...
iwantastiffdrink 7 months ago
@iwantastiffdrink sounds to me like you have the anit-gracie chip on your shoulder from videos like this. but hey, its effective. simple as that. people always throw out this multiple opponents like its the only thing that happens. what about ALLL millions of fights that are between 1on1 people. it seems to me you just don't like BJJ. this also comes from a lack of studying BJJ or seeing it outside of youtube. BJJ is a martial art just like Boxing, just like tkd not just sport. period.
pedro90 6 months ago
@pedro90 - My problem w/ the Gracie's has always been their total lack of humility, their denegration of other arts, the making of clearly biased propaganda videos, and their propagation of myths. It's funny how all these BJJ videos that are slobbered over, are all either Gracie contrived stunts, or sporting events. No reality. Also, Karate, Kung Fu, Hapkido, et al, were designed to at minimum maim the opponent, or be lethal. UFC & Pride events handcuff traditional martial arts & dumb them down.
iwantastiffdrink 6 months ago
@iwantastiffdrink like i said the chip. You also have alot of the common martial arts misconceptions. 1.) i felt the same way about BJJ about 5 years ago then someone told me the truth- its just marketing. they know they aren't unbeatable the gracies have lost many times. What there doing is no different then the challenge matches that have been done against other styles ever since martial arts was invented. karate, judo, jiujitsu all did the same thing just not on the same grand scale.
pedro90 6 months ago
@iwantastiffdrink 2.) The misconception that UFC and Pride events hand cuff the systems is absurd & comes from lack of knowledge. UFC 1-5 had absolutely no rules. NONE. & there were many karate fighters who entered & did well, but many did not. it was due to training methods & unfamiliarity with certain aspects of combat( grappling) why many failed. But there was no rule set that somehow limited any traditional stylists. seeing as there was no rules set. there wasn't even rounds or time limits.
pedro90 6 months ago
@iwantastiffdrink as stated, nobody said the gracies are unbeatable, but if there were more videos of them loosing you'd have seen them. also /watch?v=9rfJerp-4ws so much for BJJ as well as MMA not being for real combat.
pedro90 6 months ago
@pedro90 - Then we'll simply agree to disagree. The early UFC's were w/out rules. And with the exception of Dan Severn, Ken Shamrock, and Royce Gracie, they were without talent too. The fight cards were brimming with no names, journeymen, and wanna-be's. The UFC of today - from a talent comparison - is a whole different world. My point is simply this...UFC is a poor barometer of any martial arts' effectiveness in real world scenarios. But some arts are more suited to it's restraints than others.
iwantastiffdrink 6 months ago
@iwantastiffdrink your missing my point sir. Im not demanding that you become a BJJ fan or an MMA fan. I'm defending MMA as having the most effective way for training against how fights actually occur. at least in terms of 1v1. the mutliple opponents argument is stupid seeing as no system is going to see you through being jumped by 10 people. also I think your getting sport BJJ confused with self defense BJJ or GJJ. here /watch?v=Aeg926nPCGQ thats self defense you learn at a standard BJJ school.
pedro90 6 months ago
@pedro90 - The "multiple opponents argument" is not stupid at all. 10 versus 1 is stupid, but you've to taken it to an exteme in order to try to make a point. 1 versus 2, or 1 versus 3 is not stupid, nor uncommon. Since BJJ has no defense against such odds makes your response understandable, but invalid nonetheless. BJJ has it's positives I suppose, but not nearly as many as you claim, nor near as many as the traditional martial arts do. If UFC is your thing then, by all means, please try BJJ.
iwantastiffdrink 6 months ago
@iwantastiffdrink i love how you completely just ignored all the proof i have presented to you. People like you amaze me. Im sure there was someone like you when the first gun was invented attempting to argue how it was ineffective for combat simply due to lack of effectiveness in one particular range. any reputable BJJ school teaches you throws, takedowns, and self-dfense techniques seperatly from its sport class. you have no leg to stand on. just ur strawman arguement.
pedro90 6 months ago
@iwantastiffdrink simply put- what i have presented: every gracie challenge match- UFC1-5 which had no rules at all- the fact that knowing how to ground fight is very over looked & not somthing you can simply just wing- the fact that MMA is the most fullcontact no resistant- less restricted form training. what you have said: MMA is so restricted but not sited how. especially when it had no rules. the fact that you wouldn't ground fight one guy. no shit. you'd take down and kip going. like judo.
pedro90 6 months ago
@iwantastiffdrink actually BJJ is more similar to Judo then japanese jiujitsu so it'd be similar to say what does BJJ do that Judo doesn't do better. to which one would say ground fight better- where as Judo has Better takedowns. however both are very neutral in comparison since there almost one in the same. but its easy to see that now your just speaking from your BJJ personal gripes not actually truths. your entitled to your opinion. but don't get it confused with truth. argument refuted again
pedro90 6 months ago
@iwantastiffdrink finallythe multiples argument is stupid because its the only thing people like you ever argue against BJJ/MMA and its very weak. in BJJ self defense( not sport) your taught judo/and Jiujitsu takedowns throws and escapes. however your added with ground defense and fighting which most JJ schools skip or skim. and if your ever in the area where you end up on the ground its better you kno them- then not because you don't like the gracies marketing strategy. thats why its stupid.
pedro90 6 months ago
@iwantastiffdrink a boxer isn't going to suck because theres no longer round timers, and a wrestler won't freeze up simply because he has pinned the guy. your martial arts as bruce lee said should bend and shape like water to the situation at hand. So if i can't run like any smart person would against more then one person. i'd simply use the clinch to maneaver him in directions to stop his buddy from hitting me, then take them down too. constantly moving. just like in Jap jiujitsu.
pedro90 6 months ago
@iwantastiffdrink and finally. your idea is stupid because you seem to try and use one area that everyone is at a disadvantage at to try and prove that BJJ is complete and totally ineffective. but traditional aren't. it also shows you have never studied any BJJ to back up your ideas. everyone is at a disadvantage against mutliple guys. one woudl even argue its funny that you have to gang up on a BJJer to have a chance of beating him. since you can't defeat him 1v1. BJJ works well.
pedro90 6 months ago
@pedro90 - Pedro, you are prolific writer and a credit to your art. While I don't hold the passion or belief in BJJ that you do, I respect your opinions nonetheless. I think more people would appreciate and respect your art were it not for the Gracie's. Though you may not think so, they make BJJ a hard art to like and respect. They lack all the humility and all the graciousness that are hallmarks of the traditional arts and a bedrock belief and practice of their adherants. All the best....
iwantastiffdrink 6 months ago
@iwantastiffdrink bout 5 years ago i'd be on your side. but then someone broke it down to me. its just marketing. simple as that. just like how burger king wants you to think mcdonalds hamburgers suck. its just the business side. in reality while knowing how to grapple is very valuable so is striking. however niether should be looked at as the only way out of all situations. the gracies have been beaten. Badly. sakuraba, yoshida, matt hughes, king mo. all have smaked the gracies down before.
pedro90 6 months ago
@tim72184 - One more thing... stand up/striking arts (the good ones-Karate, Kung fu, Hapkido, Jeet Kun do) rountinely train to defend against more than 1 opponent. More than two at once would be tough. But three or four in succession is very doable. Not so with BJJ. Look, my whole point was NOT to besmirch other arts (each has positives) but to put BJJ in perspective & give the Gracie's a dose of their own medicine. Videos like this are both absurd and taboo in the real world of martial arts.
iwantastiffdrink 7 months ago
@iwantastiffdrink Then we don't disagree on much after all. I would never take someone to the ground when there are more than one. All the Gracies ever wanted to prove was that their art could beat standup arts 1v1 because standup arts neglect the ground game. To be a complete martial artist these days requires studying at least one grappling art (Judo/JJ/BJJ) and one standup art (Karate, Kung Fu, etc, though I would not recommend TKD, cough). The Gracies themselves acknowledge this.
tim72184 7 months ago 2
@iwantastiffdrink 3.) MMA is the closest you could possible get to training for a street fight without being in as streetfight. lots of wild swinging, takedowns, slams, punches on the ground. all found in street fights. + its all trained at full resistance. so your body becomes accustomed to fighting, being struct, getting hit etc. if you want proof google any streetfight video and notice how similar the two are.
pedro90 6 months ago
@iwantastiffdrink 4.) final point. BJJ is very similiar to judo as it comes to self defense. there are many techniques that aren't done in MMA that BJJ fighters do. same as Wrestlers. its only the area useful for MMA> however as for it working on Teh ST33rz you should know that police officers are trained in it for subduing criminals, bouncers use it for subduing drunks, and while its not good for multiple attacks( much like any other system) its great for dealing with 1. not at all useless.
pedro90 6 months ago
@iwantastiffdrink one more thing. Karate was designed so that people who had no weapons could learn to defend themselves after Japan outlawed them during there reign in okinawa. it wasn't made to "Kill all who stand in your way" and as you can cleary see from this video BJJ fighters a. don't need a soft surface seeing as this was done on tile. b.) don't need a time limit.
pedro90 6 months ago
this vid is such shit y is it that in all these 'experts' of other styles all seem south american. ive never seen an thai master from thai land, an actual shaolin monk, and then there is kimura (and others). he was actually japanese, master of judo, and raped helio....im i the only one not an imbecile here?
ps all the blind people on the planet can see that no one in there is 13 fuckin years old
but hey, they made their money and exit. while people are left on a band wagon not going anywhere
TENNSUMITSUMA 8 months ago in playlist BJJ VS. Everyone else
@TENNSUMITSUMA He raped him and then asked him to teach at the Imperial school in Japan so impressed was he......with the tightness of his bunghole!? You're a tool. Jog on....
MsAdolfHipster 8 months ago
@MsAdolfHipster
....yeah whatever, bitch.
asked to teach at the school, so the gracies say
TENNSUMITSUMA 8 months ago
Some people are missing the point...There is no one system that is supreme other wise there would be no MIXED martial arts...we would be watching only Jiu jitsu on UFC...today fighters can neutralize BJJ by having a good take down defense. Don't get me wrong, I am a practitioner of Brazilian Jiu jitsu and it is by far one of the best systems in the real world but the fact is we are discussing martial ARTS. Which by definition (art) implies creativity and constant change and adaptation.
johnnytnyc08 8 months ago
karate sucks.
Brasilian jiu jitsu & MMA best fighting system ever.
Brazil forever.
BluePittbull666 9 months ago
i have a massive amount of respect for anyone who trains hard and dedicates themselves to something positive, that being said in a one on one fight Jui-Jutsi does seem to be the most effective system. but the great thing about MMA is it takes what works best form ALL the systems, its a free flow off ideas, its open minded, it frees us form the dogma in traditional martial arts and it's competition rules are the closest to a "real" fight of all the combat sports. Multiple Attackers? Run like hell
tadhg964 9 months ago
No sense in this at all.
They are two completely different things.
obviously jui jitsu would come out on top.
Karate isn't about grappling, there are different rules for each martial art.. if karate was aloud to grapple and you got one amazing martial artist from juijitsu and karate its much more likely that karate would come out on top because then they have strikes, blokes etc etc there is no fair way. id say the same if i was a jui jitsu student.
AcornsAndAntlers 9 months ago
Awesome vid, keep em comin. Just posted a similar vid, check it out.
I train at one of the gracie headquarters in florida
asimmiami1 11 months ago
Hélio Gracie e Mestre Bimba sem comentários
lukaskm93 1 year ago
Hey folks ! Sorry about my bad english, but let me try explain what was this video.
At this time, the karate was the most popular martial art in brazil, but the Gracies were gaining popularity with they jiu jitsu, defeting several oponnents.
Then, the people fron Karate mounted a challenge, to see whats is the better martial arts.
5 fights, the best fron karate, against the best fron jiu jitsu. What Happened
5 wins for jiu jitsu.
Thnaks.
felipebjj100 1 year ago
@felipebjj100 In one sense you are right but another I think you missing some jigsaw pieces there Bud.It can wholly depend on many factors one being in this case Jujutsu primarily focus on close quarter fighting.Karate we can fight close quarters or outer fighting.Then it can depend on that student your using for the fight.weather hes more comfatable with close quarer fighting or weather he prefares to stay at a certain distance and use Maai.
jason41760 11 months ago
@jason41760 Yeah but its mainly outer fighting and striking .
parks2000 10 months ago
@felipebjj100 the best from Karate? hahahaha
sanhaua 8 months ago
there is nothing that can beat brazilian jiu jitsu. Brazil is the best in everything thanks gracie family
Pedrohenrique040304 1 year ago
Yeah, I think by itself jiu jitsu has lots of strengths, but even the gracies preached about not limiting to one aspect of fighting
the gracies wanted to demonstrated that with their mastery of grappling, they could end fights without too much violence, but never said that as a martial artist, you shouldnt use strikes. royce and rorion both trained in muay thai and taekwondo for striking and clinch set-ups
TruNikkaz 1 year ago
@TruNikkaz They did not train in Tae Kwon Do, they only trained in Kickboxing(just look at Renzos style) but their fighting style was 90% Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, 2% Wrestling, and 8% Kickboxing in fights
parks2000 10 months ago
@parks2000
royce and rorion both trained in taewkondo
TruNikkaz 10 months ago
I feel you need to cover all the bases from free movement to clinch then ground fighting so someone average at mixed martial arts could beat someone good at any single art. Bruce Lee was way ahead of his time with this idea coming away from tradition and not commiting to one style. The martial arts are still evolving.
VolcanoMr 1 year ago
if you're in a situation where you can commit to fighting one guy on the ground then yes JJ is great, but not if you want/need to be stand up....karate and JJ don't overlap and cannot be compared. You don't do JJ standing up, and you don't do Karate on the ground.
ashalchi 1 year ago
Jiu Jitsu is the ultimate martial art in my opinion. Why? Well because in bjj size and strength means nothing against technique. The objective in bjj is to get the fight to the ground an establish a position were the opponent can't move. Ofcourse in a situation were you are fighting multiple guys the objective is to get out as soon as possible and take the minumule hits. But even then Jiu Jitsu comes in handy because you learn how to get out of tight and uncomfortable positions.
lamalol121 1 year ago
JJ is a great sport and system on the ground, but in a real life fight, you take Karate over JJ 100% of the time....to do otherwise is just stupid. Show me a JJ champ, and I'll show you 2 guys off the street that can kick his ass....you can't say the same with karate
ashalchi 1 year ago
@ashalchi buena esa... considero que un buen karateca puede deshacerse de cualquier competidor... solo con entrenamiento adecuado..
dylankarate 1 year ago
@ashalchi thats fucking stupid
Shadow2271 8 months ago
@ashalchi no martial art can take multiple opponents efficiently.
IamVeryFrozen 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
JJ is cool but for real life it is totally inferior to Karate....in JJ you can only fight one person at once and you are totally vulnerable. To prove my point, I will take 2 guys off the street, together they will beat the beat JJ guy in the world. while they are doing JJ, the other guy comes and give the JJ guy a head stomp or strike to the head while he's tied up....fight over
ashalchi 31 seconds ago
ashalchi 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
JJ is cool but for real life it is totally inferior to Karate....in JJ you can only fight one person at once and you are totally vulnerable. To prove my point, I will take 2 guys off the street, together they will beat the best JJ guy in the world. while they are doing JJ, the other guy comes and give the JJ guy a head stomp or strike to the head while he's tied up....fight over
ashalchi 1 year ago
Comment removed
ashalchi 1 year ago