Soul Reaver 2 - Raziel returns to Elder God

[bobmegee]

they hint at a possible reason why raziel could have just woken up at the beginning of SR1 when the elder god says about how a vampires soul "stagnates in their wrteched corpses" we know kains brood of vampires can be resurrected and even gain soul devouring capabilities themselves as soon as the cause of death is removed from their bodies. so perhaps raziels body just reached a stage where the water couldnt harm it any more or maybe just his "soul" grew in power without the slaugh eating him

[Joudas]

@bobmegee I really hate YouTube's new comments system; tries to be too much like twitter and fails at it. Very hard to see who's replying to what. Nonetheless, the immunity to water, he gained when he consumed Rahab's soul in SR1.

[NessDark]

@bobmegee yeah, but that would make any revived vampire a free-willed  champion

[killerbladeaex]

@NessDark THATS right and not every vampire could be revived that easily ... he have to die near the elder's lair so he can resseruct him , moebius was scared to die in soul reaver 2 when he wasnt near his master , while in defiance he smiled to kain because he knew he's gonna get resseructed

[dalmurja]

And don't you forget this: we see no evidence that ANY of Raziel's brothers being 'killable' by a fall into the Abyss. In fact, they seemed to be immortal except for Raziel actually absorbing their souls.

I would bet that none of them would die if thrown into the abyss. They were dead humans imbued with souls Kain plucked from the nether. They were not live humans that turned into Vampire. They are unique.

[dalmurja]

Guys. Kain did not know the Elder God existed. He simple saw Raziel in his future form and saw many things from the time streaming chamber. He knew he had to throw Raziel into the abyss to turn him into the Soul Reaver.

[andreiorzan]

@dalmurja false ...kain did not know about raziel's destiny when he tried to kill him....he later used the time streaming chambers to seea his own future ....and then he found out about raziel!

[dalmurja]

@andreiorzan I don't object to accepting what you are saying -- just show me or tell me how you determined that. How do you know that Kain did not know Raziel was meant to be in the Soul Reaver when he threw him into the Abyse? And how do you know that he opened the time streaming chambers after he threw Raziel?

[dalmurja]

@andreiorzan Actually --- I have the answer right here --- Kain to Raziel in Soul Reaver 2: "Let's drop the moral posturing, shall we? We both know there's no altruism in

this pursuit. Your reckless indignation led you here - I counted on it." ---- My statement is not 'false'.

[Myushu]

@dalmurja I'm not sure which statement you're referring to, but I'm not sure why Kain's manipulation of Raziel at the quoted point indicates he knew Raziel was ultimately destined to BE the soul reaver, rather than simply a weilder thereof. Remember that the blade Raziel was nearly drawn into at the end of SR2 was the Blood Reaver, whereas the one he nearly killed Kain with was the full-bodied Soul Reaver; it's possible that the "2 instances" paradox was all Kain was counting on at that point.

[dalmurja]

@Myushu I was refering to andreiorzan's "he later used the time streaming chambers to seea his own future ....and then he found out about raziel!" -- which indicates that Kain knew nothing about Raziel when he ordered him to be thrown into the Abyss. I am not saying that he knew Raziel was going to BE Soul Reaver or not -- but he definatly knew about Raziel coming after him for revenge -- ie: he knew Raziel was not going to die --

Also -- I said "turn him to the Soul Reaver"-- not the Blade.

[dalmurja]

@Myushu So yeah -- I meant by Soul Reaver as Raziel the Reaver of Souls --

[dalmurja]

@Myushu But let me add -- Kain was expecting the Soul Reaver blade to shatter when he strikes Raziel -- he knew that Raziel's soul was inside the blade he was wielding. So at least at that point he knew Raziel's destiny. Whether he knew this piece of information when he ordered him thrown in the Abyss is not strongly indicated, but there is not evidence saying that he did not know either.

[OriginalZero]

kain dropped raziel into the EG's lap on purpose, knowing the elder god would use him, so that he would go to the past and reveal everything, thats how kain knew that raziel could resist his destiny. he knew raziel was the reaver somehow (probably from those time portals he did say he's seen their destinies) so he did what HIS destiny for told. confusing yes. raziel's destiny was to be both the hylden savior and the vampire's hero (actually his weapon). thats my guess though.

[Rahab111222]

Kain wasn't even aware the Elder God existed until the ending of Defiance.

[OriginalZero]

i think that what raziel thinks is true: the elder god was just there when he came back to life. it was raziel's destiny to become the soul reaver, so because it is written in history, he couldn't NOT die there. I think that kain simply killed raziel when he got wings, knowing that those wings would help him become the soul reaver, give raziel a reason to fight.

[Cobac]

@OriginalZero kain didnt knew raziel would become a soul reaver ....

[thinkigotta]

i think maybe raziels indisructable because he was the only vampire strong enough to survive long enough to reach the bottum of the abyss and physical form entered the spectral realm becoming a spectral being and connected to it making him a wraith

[GmodPlusWoW]

Perhaps being the highest-born of a dark Balance Guardian has it's perks. Since he grew wings, he's probably got some kind of power from the Ancient Vampires. Perhaps he consumed the blood of Vorador when Kain sent Raziel to kill the Ancient Vampires.

Some time during Kain's Empire, Vorador would've probably incited a kind of secessionism within the vampires, so Kain sends Raziel to dispatch his "old friend".

That'd probably be what LoK: Prodigal Sons (a fan game) would be about...

[GmodPlusWoW]

Sorry, I meant ancient Vampire.

[thinkigotta]

i dnt think raziel wud have been able to kill vorador its already been said tht vorador is stronger than any of kains vampire sons and probably stronger thn kain

[GmodPlusWoW]

Well, in Defiance, Raziel almost defeated the Hylden-possessed Janos, and Janos was surely stronger than Vorador, wasn't he? I think Raz coulda taken out Vorador.

[BoyKagome]

So when Raziel makes this accusation about the Elder God just finding him and not being responsible for the resurrection itself, is that accurate?

[Joudas]

We don't know - it's never confirmed or disproved. We know the Elder God is capable of resurrecting people (see: Moebius), however, and the fact that Raziel was changed so much upon his rebirth, and that his new form benefits the Elder God directly (claiming souls for him) lends credence to the Elder God's claim.

[BoyKagome]

Wooo Joudas himself answered... lemmie say your a god send man, I was able to listen at work on my MP3 and learn a lot more. Now the Elder God seems the most likely choice, the thing that gets me is when Raziel says. " I wonder old one, did you truly resurrect me." The Elder God never denied anything Raziel said after that. He stayed silent like " Crap he figured it out." Kinda thing.

[Joudas]

It's certainly a possibility - the issue is never really revisited with anything more then a passing comment, so we may well never know. It could be that it was meant to be left a mystery for some future title that was never released.

[thinkigotta]

but that passin comment is meant to more or less confirm what really happened when raziel was ressurected and there really is more to raziels destiny than anybody realises

[AoDTheAnonymousPH]

If I were Raziel I would so tell the Elder God off.

"Shut the fuck up you giant fucking squid"

[birkinsmith88]

And that's told him.

[PenguinsRuleThaWorld]

I wonder... after Kain defeats the Elder God in Defiance what happened? he said he wouldn't die being the arbiter of life and death.

[GmodPlusWoW]

He merely got his ass handed to him. The final fate of the Elder God is yet to be decided. What move Kain makes next, we don't yet know.

[thinkigotta]

i dnt tink itll ever be answered bt frm the deleted material frm the lost worlds we can roughly see how it wud of happened

[SpotlessBrand]

I had never realized that Raziels survival of the Abyss might not have been because of an outside influence.

I'm quite happy with the new knowledge.

[szero38]

hey do ya think that the elder god is just bored and has no one to talk to in the spectral realm? and thats why he resurrected raziel..evry one know that hes just a gum

[SpotlessBrand]

No. He already knows that Raziel is the prophesized hero of the Hylden, or at the very least the only one that can truly kill Kain.

And that's his true plan, to kill Kain, who is the only one that might actually have any effect on his physical manifestation (the final battle in Legacy of Kain: Defiance explains it all).

[solidsnakedaboss1988]

the elder god ressurects raziel to kil Kain the only person to know the elder gods true motive

[GypsyRed]

Is it my imagination or does he have lesser eyes in this scene?

[akitta21]

Indeed, becouse this is the past.

[MarcusCole101]

ther elder doesnt die =|

[elhona]

Doesn't that suck! And I don't mean literally!

That damn overgrown squid has to go!

[RednessAlpha]

CTHULU COMMANDS FOR YOU TO BE SILENT!

[elhona]

NEVER!!!!

[portuguesehulkamania]

chtulhu...indeed the comparasion is obvious,and i never had made the connection

[razielrocks]

Raziel can't do any of that because his attacks have no effect on the "Elder God"... Although, It is awesome that he dies

*dance*

stupid squid...

[monkishmonkey88]

I wonder what would happen if i jumped down in that part and stabbed the elder god.....

[elhona]

I wonder why we wonder so much...

[monkishmonkey88]

Cause we would like know. And I personally would like to see the Elder God Dead.

[elhona]

Amen.

[doomsday12345]

i wonder what would happen if i swam to his eye and tried to cut it...

[elhona]

Razielo finally grows some brass... you know what I mean.