Tough Lessons from Mormon Missionary work in Latin America

[TheNuncFluens]

I'm chilean and nobody in Chile takes mormons seriously. You're wasting your time here.

[elbosketube24]

Tuve el privilegio de tenerle como Presidente del CCM, antes de partir a mi misión en Antofagasta, en 2003. Saludos Presidente Lyon. Patricio Córdova.

[athleticace24]

Those missionaries OBVIOUSLY weren't guided by the Spirit and that mission president should have IMMEDIATELY changed how things went. because of those ignorant missionaries there are TONS of members who really know nothing of the church.

-This brother is NOT an apostle of the Lord, and therefore none of his words can really be taken with that much weight. People go apostate all the time, including high-office holding people starting with Thomas B. Marsh. don't judge the church based on him

[leydemurphy]

@athleticace24 I m chilean, I was missionary at that time in concepción, Chile; and i confirm the words of Hermano Lyon...

[Kannon12]

Here is the danger within the LDS church: They raise deceptive and dishonest people in their missionary training program:

7:50 "What did he learn, and what are the other missionaries learning from that experience? That by being deceptive, by being dishonest you can advance in the mission."

[Khemin]

It's simply a matter of basic personal integrity and morality and ethics. You don't claim it a non-issue to "...decide whether (the Church) is true or it's not true" while leading and directing young missionaries to DECLARE THE CHURCH TRUE to any and all they teach and baptize !!! You don't agree to ignore all the glaring lies and cover-ups of the Church while demanding of new converts that they gain actual "testimonies of the truthfulness of the Gospel" !!!

[Khemin]

If the Church is not what it claims so definitively to be, then it either needs to change its claims and "dethrone" its General Authorities as the "prophets, seers and revelators" that to this day it claims them to literally be... or else men like Dr. Lyon need to stop lying to themselves and others in leading missionary work in which young ignorant "salesmen" are commanded and directed to sell the lie that the Church IS actually "true" with literal "prophets of God" at its head !!!

[Khemin]

"I never went into the Gospel thinking that I was going to decide either it's true or it's not true... I went into the Gospel because it was a satisfying experience for me." - Dr. Ted Lyon (14:47)

That pretty much says it all... when top leaders of the Church, this man also a doctorate level "intellectual," have rationalized away the Key Claim of the Church as the "Only True Church" on Earth and, instead, chosen to either ignore (bad enough) or outright lie to themselves and others about it.

[SnoozeButton57]

I walked the streets of Rio and its favelas for two years, and have this to say. The Mormon church would be the star of this next century if it would just embrace it's ACTUAL PAST. Joseph Smith was a fast talking, high roller, and adapted to any obstacle with a revelation. Today the leaders will not comment on his 27 wives, nor his 7 First Visions, nor the 42 doctrinal changes that have evolved since 1830. Man up and grow, Mormon church. We're waiting for honesty to explode into STATISTICS.

[lizzycathy]

Do u want to know why the LDS chrurch grow so much in Chile? cause the people that missionaries taught are not the kind of people that could possibly realize the inconcistency the mormon doctrine. Mormons taught nothing of the dark past of the church. Once you are a member you are suppose to support those things even if you don't agree with them. And when you dare give your oppinion they always say. ' sis that's not important for you salvation'. How convenient!

[cotonish]

@lizzycathy what do you mean. are you trying to say that we are stupid????

We also have the capacity to analyse and notice right from wrong. I know the church is true, you have to visit it to know what happens inside those walls. I promise you that we are not naive people believing in lies, we have a strong testimony of all, nobody has hidden anything from us.

[ElderJoseph]

@cotonish " I promise you that we are not naive people believing in lies"

How can you promise this?

Did you know Joseph Smith used a Hat and Stone for treasure digging and then later using this same hat and stone he said he saw words appearing inside his hat and asked others to write them down and they became the Book of Mormon.

Did your ' inside four walls' ever tell you that?

[lizzycathy]

who did not really understand their teachings. I remember an old lady who was kind of abandone bye their family, and i could see that the only interest she have in the missionaries was company, to not feel as alone as she use to be. Missionaries take advantage of these people and baptize them even if they're not ready, and after that, they don't visit that people anymore, and the memership don't intergrate them either. I think that is rather shameful.

[lizzycathy]

I don't know what kind of pressure missionaries feel about batizing people, but according to what I've seen here in chile, I have to say that they only care about numbers. And what the man say in the video is quite the truth, but I believe that my way of seeing the issue is rather different. There was a time when I used to accompany missionaries with their visits, and a feature of the people they taught particularly caught my attention. they ussually were uneducated people

[snicketiesnack]

Ted needs to take some pre-columbian history lessons. No evidence of any of the civilizations described in the Book of Mormon has ever been found. It sure takes a LOT of faith to be a mormon.

[tlatkin]

McMormon Inc.

[gibbawho]

Religions will always have problems retaining converts because religion doesn't stand up to logic. Some people will always ultimately realize this and leave said church.

LDS (and all theologies I've ever researched) have much grander problems than a few rogues inflating their numbers, such as the steady decline of people buying into a "faith" of any kind in the world. If you truly believe what you claim to believe ... you're losing the war for hearts and minds. Logic is winning.

[THELDSLIFE]

Although your ideas sound plausible, quitters of any kind will quit regardless. Its a human flaw to give up and the law of the 1/3's suggests that 1/3 will be strong, 1/3 will hang around and remain a fence sitter, and 1/3 will quit. The same is true in business and in many aspect of life.

Quitters never really need a reason to quit but they often provide one to justify themselves.

God would rather have the quitter than have them be "luke warm" as Christ mentions several times, however.

[1MoNoMo]

I agree with you, THELDSLIFE.

My question is: Why would the org. (LDS in this case) who know very well of the "rule of Thirds"--that roughly 1/3 of it's membership (5000?) is active, and the other 2/3rds are not (in reality) Mormon, in the true sense as "believers", yet LDS, Inc

continues to use the higher numbers in it's teachings and advertising?? Is there a NEED to be deceptive? Please explain...Is it as simple as: 13.6 million SOUNDS better (as in a more SOLID org) than 5 million.

[1MoNoMo]

"Quitters". One the one hand you say quitting is a human flaw and then that God prefers "the quitter" over the "luke warm".

"Quitter" carries a negative connotation.

I can think of many situations where quitting was the correct choice.

Joseph Smith "QUIT" Methodism. Paul "QUIT" persecuting Christians. The Mormon Church "QUIT" demeaning black men.

To the contrary.--I believe that the "REASONS" for quitting is the ONLY thing God will consider in judging quitting as either good or bad.

[Elonshawn]

It also seems to me that the more openness we have as a church, the more the church will really thrive. I would like to feel that the Apostles are worthy and faithful people doing their best and truly inspired, but that they are "human." While I know that they have a very special calling, I wonder if I would feel any closer to the Savior being with them than I would being with my Bishop or Home Teacher or Primary Teacher or anyone else in the ward.

[Elonshawn]

I served in Santiago in 1988-89, and this was such a difficult issue for me. I was so worried about this as a missionary that I started to get very sick. I just found out today that some of the best prepared people I taught have not stayed in the church. I'm grateful that I learned obedience, and I was very, very glad to hear that the church changed the approach to missionary work after I left.

[chadandbarby]

I'm 30 minutes in...I don't buy it...but thanks

[1MoNoMo]

On the point of having "highly intelligent"

men becoming apostles lately as if that were a good thing. We have MANY intelligent people in high places in government. Clearly these governments, in many areas, are NOT "enlightened" or functioning, as a result

of having the guidence of these "intelectuals". There is no obvious reason for a move to intelectualism.

[1MoNoMo]

On the other hand, the church grew fabulously under the direction of Peter, James and John and Paul and other early leaders, FEW of which , if any, had what we would call a "higher education". This drive toward intelectualism can't be supported by scriptural cannon. What are the GAs thinking that would cause this?

[mormons4truth]

So then if this mission president knew that missionaries are "making up names" and doing two hour baptisms, why did he NOT make an effort purge these names from the record?

Additionally, when will our leadership stop reporting the number of baptisms as active membership?

Lastly, if President Hinckley knew about these bogus baptisms, why did he stand up and use phrases in general conference that were misleading like: "11 million STRONG"?

As a member, I am sickend by this all.

[john196543]

I've seen your comments on so many videos--stop posing as a member.

[mormons4truth]

I am a member.

Born and raised in Bountiful Utah, temple endowed in 1987. Married in the temple.

Held many different positions in the LDS church at ward and stake levels.

I just want the media attention to go away and for President Monson to tidy up our house. Purge the records and lets get back to who we are.

[leydemurphy]

The Mission President of a mission have the authority to purge record? NO, he haven't.

[1MoNoMo]

No, leydemurphy, he doesn't have the authority to purge the record. But he has enough to bring it up to, and put pressure on those who DO have the authority. They might squawk about it--but who would continue to support the dishonesty? (Okay, Oaks would but no one else--well, maybe Paul Dunn would were he still around.) That's what the LDS church needs is a vigorous house cleaning TOP TO BOTTOM.

[2ool8]

I think JOhn Dehlin is a really amazing guy. He does wonderful interviews. He is very respectful of the people he interviews. he has brought some amazing stories to light. Kudos for a job super well done, John!

[rotturbrain1234]

YES>>> Mormon church has ONLY 4 million active members..read it and ask...why?

[torth76]

cause its hard

[leydemurphy]

Yes, it hard to say that, but is not weird. Every religion have the same problems to retain it converts. Also, many member of the Catholic and Evangelical Church was baptized in the LDS Church, and reversal. But if you thinkl that the Christ Church should be numerous in PEOPLE, then: how Christ died? Why the Christ followers didn'd anything to save his Master? Because they NEVER WAS THE MAYORITY. The same thing happens in our days.

Saludos desde Chile,

Lucho

[1MoNoMo]

leydemurphy.

It is the MormonChurch that says that before Christ's 2nd Coming, Christ's gospel will roll forth and fill the whole earth. LDS make up about .007% of the world's population. All I can say is, you better get busy.

And, by the way, are you native to Chile?--as in Lamanite? Have you had a DNA test to see if you have any Jewish/Hebrew

blood?

[CobiCapri]

I appreciate this man's honesty.  Such brutal candor is rare in the Mormon church.

Of course convert retention is a problem - the Mormons are peddling a shoddy, unsatisfactory product to the world.

[guitarmanUK]

I am a Mormon "in transition" as some really bad things happened to myself and my family in the church. I did appreciate the honesty of this man. Honesty is one thing the church often lacks (to say the least). I loved and actually applauded the comment that he does not claim that the Holy Ghost has guided him in all things in his church life or service. So many leaders insist they are inspired when that is clearly not the case. If there were more like him I might not be about to leave.

[ElderJoseph]

Hi Guitarman , I'm in the Uk too .I would love to hear about your experience in church.i'll send you an email.

[zaruka]

Thank you for your honesty and integrity.

[ElderJoseph]

Another class Interview from John Dehlin.Although I'm not a believer in Mormonism , I have great respect for John for addressing the issues.His website 'Mormonstories' was instrumental in my learning of accurate mormon history.