Joseph Smith's polygamous marriages to young women may seem difficult to understand or explain today, but in his own time such age differences were not typically an obstacle to marriage. The plural marriages were unusual, to say the least; the younger ages of the brides were much less so. Critics do not provide this perspective because they wish to shock the audience and have them judge Joseph by the standards of the modern era, rather than his own time.
@scottwins2 " Critics do not provide this perspective because they wish to shock the audience"
It's shocking stuff yes. Brigham Young was threatening HELL to coerce young girls into marrying old cult leaders.
Orson Pratt was screwing his 16 year old brides and he was in his fifties.
Mormons never Lead the way with any standards but live the worldly standards of their day and do it with more Aggression and Zeal than those they claim are infidels.
apostate Mormons Ann Eliza Webb Young and her father Chauncery both referred to Fanny's relationship as a "sealing." Ann Eliza also reported that Fanny's family was very proud of Fanny's relationship with Joseph, which makes little sense if it was simply a tawdry affair. Those closest to them saw the marriage as exactly that—a marriage
@scottwins2 " Fanny's relationship with Joseph, which makes little sense if it was simply a tawdry affair. Those closest to them saw the marriage as exactly that—a marriage"
So NO Dynastic sealing here then? The ROMP in the barn was real. Was it their Honeymoon in the HAY! lol
Mormons are so stupid arguing both sides of their mouths!
@scottwins2 not true, there is actually testimony and affidavits in courts of law from some of the wives of Joseph that stated that they had in fact conjugal visits with Joseph Smith. Please don't lie you just create anti mormons when you lie. You only damage the Mormon church more. Lying is a sin my friend. You should see your bishop and repent.
@scottwins2 " Relationships with Smith were Non-Conjucal"
What are you talking about? Every other Mormoin Polygamist was screwing his soccer team of chicks so why would they MISUNDERSTAND Smith?
And what business is it of yours what Joseph SMith did with his wives? How dare you even challenge his revelation and what he was doing with his brides. It's non of your business. Just PAY, PRAY and OBEY like a good cult recruit and hand over your wife or daughter to the Prophet if asked.
The Tanners made great mileage out of Joseph Smith's marriage to his youngest wife, Helen Mar Kimball. However, they failed to mention that I wrote that there is absolutely no evidence that there was any sexuality in the marriage, and I suggest that, following later practice in Utah, there may have been no sexuality. p. 638 All the evidence points to this marriage as a primarily dynastic marriage.
@scottwins2 " purrpose was likely to tie families together,"
So why does Helen recall "My father had but one Ewe Lamb, but willingly laid her upon the alter”
Hardly some kind of dynastic paper excercise. And if Smith wasn't really marring anyone else in the proper sense then why did Beigham Young round up girls like Battery hens and screw them if Joseph never had that in mind and that polygamy was purley dynastic? BS cult BS.
@ElderJoseph " All the evidence points to this marriage as a primarily dynastic marriage. purrpose was likely to tie families together,"
If marrying 14 year old Helen was some kind of Dynastic Paper excercise to bind families only then why didn't Joseph Smith marry Heber Kimballs wife instead?? That would have done the job of binding families and he did marry other men's wives often.
Instead of OLD Vilate Kimball. Smith decides 14 yrs old Helen is preferable!!
@scottwins2 " Everybody knows all their information on Fanny is second or THIRD hand!"
So why has someone in the Mormon Cult with an introductory note backdated the D&C 132 Revelation so as to include Fanny Alger?
Check it out in your D&C!
Yes 'everbody' knows. You make me laugh. My ward members (even bishop) didn't even know Smith used a hat to peep into and read off a regular garden rock.
The depth of dishonesty in LDS CES Sunday School manuals is Top Class.
@ElderJoseph Probably the wife about whom we know the least is Fanny Alger, Joseph's first plural wife, whom he came to know in early 1833 when she stayed at the Smith home as a house-assistant of sorts to Emma (such work was common for young women at the time). There are no first-hand accounts of their relationship (from Joseph or Fanny), nor are there second-hand accounts (from Emma or Fanny's family). All that we do have is third hand accounts, most of them recorded many years after...
Richard Bushman LDS Stake Patriarch and Author of Rough Stone Rolling page 325 "Smith "never denied a relationship with Alger, but insisted it was not adulterous. He wanted it on record that he had never confessed to such a sin."
And what about Heln Marr KImball aged 14 for marriage? Yes FIrst Hand !!
What about Smith marrying other mens wives? Yes FIrst Hand.
Smith ASKING for other mens wives? First hand and published in J.O.D!
@theshakter "A woman that wants to get marred to a already marred man. Oh deer"
Unfortunataely she has been deceived into thinking she will get a good place in Mormon Celestial Kingdom and that she has little choice unless she wants to suffer damnation.
Thats what cult leaders Joseph Smith and Brigham Young created.
@mollymu1 " and there are tons of people he won't talk to "
What you really mean is no General Authority will come on the show. Now that is so much for them getting any truth out. They know they are running a lying con.
Give him a call if you are LDS, FLDS, RLDS or one of the other 100 plus Mormon versions !
@mollymu1 " They wouldn't stoop to entertain this clown's lies ."
LDS General Authorities are the Deceivers. They purposely evade the facts of the cult they are steering. Thats the reason they would never answer to any questions or appear on any show. What would be more fitting than to see a GA put him right? Truth is they can't and they know it!
They are fake and are not Apostles called but self styled. Enjoy the new $4 Billion shopping Mall ( thats what LDS is really about) Real estate.
@anonazero I thought the same thing when I read his response. All talk show screen calls. He takes on some very devoted callers and I think does a great job of accepting and beating challenging positions. He's running from none.
mormonism is a cult.its all about money power and women for the men.thats how smith started it and thats how its done today.they need to know the truth of Jesus Christ not some man who claims to be a prophet.i will continue to pray for them
Man comes up with all kinds of ways to get to heaven. Jesus said I am the way and He says believe in Him and you will be saved. Very simple. But fleshly man loves to control and manipulate people and put people in to bondage. Jesus said His yoke is easy and His burden is light.
This is a great video clip. MONUMENTAL KUDOS to Shawn, Doris and to ELDER JOSEPH for putting this on display. If polygamy really was gods plan to raise up an LDS seed then the LDS female to male birth rate would sky rocket, so men really could have more than one wife in the scheme of things, but the thing is IT NEVER HAPPENED ! if it did we'd never hear the end of it from the DAMN MORmONS! Polygamy is BS, MORmONISM is BS!
@baxfikkle555 The reason for my channel is becuase the Mormon Church has pi**ed me off big time.
Two years of my life being Stitched Up by a church and it's educational system that knows it is deceiving people, that purposely omits facts from church manuals and instead publishes obvious deception.
Then I have a gripe with a personal member who truly refletcs the Standard of Mormon Bullshit and what it is all about!
Never trust a MORmON! They can't help lying for the Mormon Lord.
Shawn truly is a man of God. How deep the love of God that he can remove a man like Shawn from the false religon of Mormonism and bring him into the greater light and freedom of Jesus Christ!!!
@LDStothecore Thats a dumb statement, but I've learned not to expect any better from silly Mormons. Why don't you become JWtothecore like some of their dumb sucker recruits?
@ElderJoseph It's true. His goal is to be popular and seen of men. He wants to draw people away from Christ, not toward Him. He is rude, vile, contentious toward anyone he doesn't agree with.
@LDStothecore "His goal is to be popular and seen of men"
Actually he is exposing deceptive Mormon non biblical, non christian false teachings. What do you expect?
If you were recruiting for a Ponzi Scheme which scams people you would say the same about anyone exposing that fraud too. Thats what brainwashing and mind conditioning does to people.
@LDStothecore Claiming McCraney is an anti-Christ is a judgmental claim so stong that if your wrong as according to Christs own words "Judge not lest ye be judged and a full measure be shaken down and added to you." .... This puts you in true peril and I would be curious if you would care to try and back up your claim with facts or withdraw the claim.
@LDStothecore Actually according to scripture an antichrist is one that denies the literal resurection of Jesus. It is those that reject the entire claims of Jesus. Look up antichrist on a bibal word search, see for yourself and rethink your hash claim.
@RedSun875 So Satan would not be an anti-Christ? He knows Jesus was resurrected. To me anti-Christ is anyone that fights against Him and that applies to McCraney and many others. I would say look it up in the Bible Dictionary, but I know you will not do that, because you don't want to know all sides to anything.
@LDStothecore You are correct, anyone who fights against Christ can be considered a Anti-Christ. So who is your Jesus? Is He God (John 1; John 10; 1 Timothy 3) or is Jesus "a" god and the older brother of Satan, a created being from the physical union of Marry and God? Or was it the Holy Ghost that overshadowed Marry causing her to be with child (Matthew 1:18-20 and Luke 1:35), no physical union just the "Shadow".
Who is your Christ? are you an Anti-Christ of the Biblical Jesus?
@LDStothecore thats funny that you say that because the sole purpose of his show is to bring people to Christ, how is he fighting against Him when hes reading straight from the Bible telling you what God says and telling you that is the only way you can be given salvation. he is fighting against a religion that is teaching the wrong things, your right he is a bit harsh, but its towards the religion.
@oJSpecs I did NOT say McCraney's purpose it to bring people to Christ. His purpose is to pull them AWAY from Christ. MOST of what he says is either a flat out lie or lies mixed with truth, which is EXACTLY what Satan does.
@LDStothecore he is reading straigh from the Bible, its all truth. your self-porclaimed prohepts are the ones who mix truth with lies. just exactly what lies has he told? give me a few exapmles please
@oJSpecs So you refuse to address what I say about your lies. Also, I give you just ONE lie he tells and I will leave it at that. He says that D&C 132 says polygamy is necessary for exaltation. That is false.
@LDStothecore and its also funny that you say redsun doesnt want to know both sides, when i see constantly with every mormon caller on shawns show, all they ever say is i know the church is true, and say that shawn is lying, and hes telling them to go look up the facts hes telling them but they never do they just continue to says hes a liar without backing it up with anything and, he gets his information from the Bible, and from your church's history, and from the book of mormon.
@oJSpecs We LDS know the church to true, yes, but we don't cut others down. I have research all the garbage he and others say and the LDS church is still True. I have backed up everything I say and all you antis do is change the subject, so get a life.
@LDStothecore how can you still believe the teachings of joseph smith are true when you can look in the Bible, the REAL word of God, and it contradicts so many things joseph smith has taught. how can you not see, you have been blinded by a man.
@LDStothecore the only thing you've said i lied about is about the church, which proves my point that all you focus on is whats said about the church, not about the teachings of the word of God. and alright fine, what does the church teach about polygamy then? and i only have to give you one thing that was wrong about his teachings? thats easy, how bout the fact that the lds church teaches that God was once a man that had to progress to be a god? the Bible in no way teaches that.
@oJSpecs At least you admit you lied, which is a SIN. There are many things that so-called Christians teach that are not found in the Bible. There is not a definite answer on the plural marriage question. All I need to know is that God commanded Joseph to do it. Also, there was polygamy approved by God in the Old Testament.
@LDStothecore what if i was to tell you God came to me and told me that the mormon religion was giving false teachings and He wanted to me fight against it to try to save all the members? what would you say if i told you that?
@oJSpecs God does not work that way. Do you even study the Bible? God says we should not fight, etc. We teach people the true Gospel and invite the Spirit and if people accept great, but no one is forced.
@LDStothecore so you believe that God wouldnt tell someone to go against a religion teaching false teachings but you believe that he would tell joseph smith to practice polygamy? there is somthing seriously wrong with your logic.
@oJSpecs God would never tell someone treat others badly. And polygamy was practised in the Old Testament. If God wants someone to practise it He can tell them if He wants.
@LDStothecore thats not what i said, i said going against a false RELIGION, not PEOPLE. so do you admit that you believe that God wouldnt tell someone to go against a religion that has false teachings, but He would tell somebody to practice polygamy?
@LDStothecore or how about how the lds church teaches that one day we can all be gods in heaven, God tells us He is the ONLY TRUE GOD, there are no others, and then you still believe that a religion that teaches that we can be gods in heaven is still true? i dont understand that at all, how can you be foolish enough to believe such a thing?
@LDStothecore God himself, was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!...it is necessary we should understand the character and being of God and how He came to be so; for I am going to tell you how God CAME TO BE God. (History of the Church, vol. 6, p. 305) that right there is another thing, God was always God, He didnt have to become God, He was always God, thats what the Bible teaches, but mormns teach different, why is that?
@LDStothecore and you say theres no way shawn can be doing it out of love, and you say he has bad intentions, and you back that up with saying hes a mean and vile person. So do you also believe Jesus had bad intentions, because when He was addressing people about their beliefs He was in no way nice to them, he insulted them and called them names. so do you also believe that Jesus had secret evil motives behind what He was saying?
@oJSpecs You blaspheme. Christ NEVER insulted, mocked, belittled anyone. He called them to repentance, yes, but He NEVER did what antiChrist McCraney does. McCraney's motives are not secret at all. BTW, are you an apostate?
@LDStothecore so Jesus was nice to the people? or was he putting down their beliefs, He did not sugar coat it. all shawn is doing is telling people the truth of the Bible in a non sugar coated way. just because he is blunt with how he says it does not mean hes evil. and im am a Lutheran who believes the Bible says, not the book of mormon.and his motives aren't secret your right, he states all the time he is trying to bring people to truly know Jesus by wht God says, not by what a man says.
@oJSpecs You will never understand until you humble yourself. You didn't answer if you are apostate. McCraney is not blunt, he is NOT Christian. I believe the Bible also. You lie. His motives are evil.
@LDStothecore im completely humble, i know im a terrible person and i deserve nothing but to go to hell. and honestly im not sure what the definition of an apostate is. he tells it as it is, thats being blunt about it is it not? and hes teaching directly from the Bible, how is he not christian, and what makes you say his motives are evil? what has he done and taught to "prove" he has evil motives?
@oJSpecs Your humility is false. Sounds like this guy on the same channel that every week says he is just redeemed dirt. I am not going to keep going in circles with you. I assume you have never seen his show.
@LDStothecore nothing about that comment if false, so i have no idea what you talking about. and you continue to say that i must not watch his show, instead of telling me what it is that makes you think his motives are evil?
@oJSpecs If you have ever seen his show, you would see that he is evil. Regarding what's false in your comment, for someone to say "I am humble" is proof he is not humble.
@LDStothecore i've seen plenty of it, i dont see how he is evil at all. you continue to make these claims about him being evil but your not backing it up in anyway, the best you've got is saying that hes lying, thats all you've done, back it up, give me proof. and i wasn't saying in a cocky sense like your making it out to be, by it i meant i know that i am a bad person, i sin ver frequently, i give in to the pleasures of the flesh all the time, i am simply no good.
@oJSpecs I have said this numerous times. He is rude and belittling to anyone that supports the LDS church, he lies about D&C 132 and mixes truth with lies. That is Satan's way.
@LDStothecore Can you say blind? yeap you can!! Watch it LDtothecore, pay attention LDS. Remember, you will be account of every word that comes out of your mind, and remember, there's not a leaf that fall off a tree without God knowing about it, if Shawn is lying God will deal with him, Shawn puts Gods word to the test!! what do you do? only stupid words that have no meaning.
@Chinaculiacan You are obviously blinded by your pride. Are you also apostate? And, yes, God will deal with McCraney and all that work against Christ.
@LDStothecore Work against Christ? I see, so he helps people to get out of bandage by a church that dictates about tithing and so many other things to come closer to Christ!! Yeap!! His doing Christ Work indeed.
@Chinaculiacan I assume you mean bondage. Would you say Moses had the Israelites in bondage? The Lord gives us commandments and it is up to us to obey.
@LDStothecore You got the point! tithing is a commandment? really? that's a new one, thou shall give thithing. hum? The Israelites were in bondage already!! You do what u FEEL, get that? feel what to do, say to the Lord, I pay tithing, I was productive, i didn't miss my priesthood duties, I, I, I,. Don't u get tired of I?
@LDStothecore Why should I response something that would make you feel good about yourself, YOU ARE AN ANTI-CHRIST? Ops! I'm sounding like you! LOL. Keep defending Joe, maybe when he Resurrects, he'll be asking for your wife, Not! He'll b judge by Jesus! Hahahahahahaha!! unless you are a woman! lol. And if you are, he might be asking for you and your daughter!! to live with him in his planet with his many spiritual wives, hum, so tempting for a man to become Mormon.
@LDStothecore the only times i've seen him be kinda rude is when the lds callers do it first. i've never heard shawn tell a mormon that their name isn't supposed to be spoken in their house. and I've heard lds callers try to put down shawns appereance multiple times, and i've never heard him do it once. he only puts down the religion, not the people. you lds are the ones who attack him personally, almost every lds caller does it, and dont even try to say they dont, i've seen it many times.
@oJSpecs You have to admit, he does dress like a slob, but that's probably to get a reaction. If you want to see his unprovoked mocking, go to hotmdottv and watch the show he did this week. You have not seen the show if you think he doesn't put down the people.
@LDStothecore and you didnt answer my question. do you honestly believe that God would tell somebody to practice polygamy but wouldn't tell someone to go against a religion with false teachings?
@oJSpecs God can tell anyone anything He desires, whether it be plural marriage or something else. However, He does not work by arguing. We are not to fight with each other, but teach the Gospel and let people follow if they wish, but not to belittle and lie.
@LDStothecore and there you go again saying i must not watch his show instead of giving me an example of how he is evil. and your being very judgemental of my character, im not being rude at all, i actually dont like being rude to people. your actually the one who is being boarderline rude, and being very judgemental, so dont try get people to be on your side by trying to make it look like im being a rude person because im not
@LDStothecore pay attention to the conversations, every mormon caller puts shawn down constantly, why is it that when mormons call all the ever talk about is shawn is lying about the church, they comment on shawns looks, and talk about how he funds his show, but its never about his teachings of Christ, its always just personal attacks towards him, they happen because he attacks your religion. and they try to make him seem as bad as possible so people might be less likely to believe what he says.
@oJSpecs You must not watch the show much. I have seen humble people call and bear their testimony and he just mocks them. You lie when you say LDS only call to talk about his looks, etc. He is a liar and a hypocrite. He claims to love LDS, but his treatment is anything but love. If he loved LDS he would be humble about what he spews.
@LDStothecore no he mocks and puts down the teachings of joseph smith not the people. they are the ones who downgrade shawn, they sugar coat it, but they still say it. and your doing nothing to prove me wrong, your actually proving my point more.you just keep saying that hes a liar, and only defending what he says about the CHRUCH, you claim hes the anti-christ and that he brings people away from Christ, but you have still not given me one example of him doing so.
@oJSpecs I have given you plenty. Looks like you are a liar also. McCraney mocks the people that call. Pulling people away from the truth is pulling them away from Christ and that's his goal.
@LDStothecore and by the way, about you saying you've given me plenty of examples of shawn bringing people away from Christ....no you havent. your just making the statement, and the best you've done to back it up is say hes a mean person.tell me some of the things he teaches that you believe bring people away from Christ. BESIDES what he says about the church, only what he teaches about the GOSPEL
@oJSpecs It's like I explained to my brother yesterday. There is only ONE way to heaven, not many. The LDS Church is literally Christ's only church on the earth. AntiChrist McCraney is drawing people away and his doctrine of Christ is FALSE.
@LDStothecore It might be best that you actually look up the term antichrist and define it by biblical standards before you run around labeling others so.
@LDStothecore If you had which I have you would have understood your statement is too harsh. Should you disagree feel free to post the verses and try to prove me wrong. If not, feel free to digress.
@LDStothecore why is it that i never have a mormon just tell me the "proof" backing up their statements, they always tell me to go read one of the mormon doctrines, why cant you just tell me. and also along those lines why do they always tell you to read the MORMON doctrines to back their statements up, why dont they ever tell you to read the Bible to back up their statements? the closest they get is saying that its in the Bible, but they never tell you where it says it
@oJSpecs We do back up our beliefs with the Bible. And what exactly do you want proof about? Tell me what we claim is in the Bible and I will answer. However, you people are always rude. Not Christlike.
@oJSpecs Look up Godhead on ldsdotorg under scriptures and study helps. I don't know if the Bible says God was once a man, but the Bible doesn't contain all that was ever said by God.
@LDStothecore it doesnt, in the Bible God says that He has no beginning and no end, He has always been God. yet the lds teach that God was once a man who had to go throuhg all the problems that we go through in order to become a god. that is completely wrong, and the lds do claim that it IS in the Bible. and you didnt cover the first question. where in the Bible does it say that we can become gods? and dont tell me to read an lds doctrine, we're talking about what the Bible says not a prophet
@LDStothecore what? i've given you proof of lds teaching that God was once a man. and everybody knows God tells us in the Bible that He has always been God, He has no beginning or end, He did not have to BECOME God He was. He also says there were no gods before Him and there will be none after Him. That disproves that He had a heveanly father that created Him, and that we can one day be gods in heaven. what more research do i need to do to know its false? YOU need to research the Bible more
@LDStothecore so i've done the research, are you ready to actually answer my questions like you said you would, or are you gonna try to find another cop out like you've been doin this whole time? and dont take that as me trying to belittle you because im not
@LDStothecore what i dont understand is how can you believe the lds church is true when it teaches things such as God was once a man who had a heveanly father and mother that created Him, and that He had to overcome the trials, that we overcome today, to become God, when God tells us in the Bible He has no beginning and no end. how can you believe in somthing like that? and ill admit i think shawn is a lil to harsh to the people at times, but its mostly at the religion.
@LDStothecore what? what about that is false? the lds DO teach that God was once a man, and God DOES say in the Bible that He has no beginning and no end, Alpha and Omega. so which part of my last comment are you trying to say is false? because either way your gonna be wrong.
It will help us to remember that our Father in Heaven was once a man who lived on an earth, the same as we do. He became our Father in Heaven by overcoming problems, just as we have to do on this earth. (p. 204) another piece of proof of what the lds church teaches that is not true. so if your really trying to say the lds dont teach this, because thats what it seems like your saying, you are a liar.
@LDStothecore Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Brigham Young, 1997. The doctrine that God was once a man and has progressed to become a God is unique to this Church. How do you feel, knowing that God, through His own experience, "knows all that we know regarding the toils [and] sufferings" of mortality? (p. 34) all you said was that antis claim things are doctrine that are not, that doesnt answer my question. and what have i claimed to be doctrine that isn't?
@oJSpecs The funny thing is that you always say that someone has not answered your questions yet you will dance around any question that is put to you. For all true Christians who are trying to talk to Mormons, this is what they are trained to do, they will not answer your question only the question they want you to ask. They dodge and twist and blame but never answer. Satans claws are deep in the LDS and he will not let go easily!
@Exodus314IAM what questions have i danced around? this whole time i've been contending what he has said, and i've asked questions and i dont feel that they have been answered. and i completely agree with you that the lds are wrong in what they are teaching.
@LDStothecore how is he an anti-christ? i dont see how he is pulling people away from Christ, i see him helping them to come closer to Him. can you give me an example of how he pulls people away from Christ?
@oJSpecs He is rude, vile, lies about what we believe and he is trying to get people away from the only true church of Christ on the earth. That is anti-Christ. If you don't believe the LDS church, you cannot deny the other vile things he does and the way he treats others. That also is against what Christ taught.
@Exodus314IAM You obviously don't know the real definition of cult. If you did you would see that even the church Christ set up when he was here would be considered a cult. Your definition is biased.
@LDStothecore What are you talking about? First I did not say this is the "definition of a cult" I said this is the #1 way to tell a group is a cult. Second?? what are you talking about the church Christ set up was considered a cult?
Seek the truth my friend and get away from the cult!!! Sorry for the blunt response.
@LDStothecore do you mean the LDS definition? of course that is the only one you can use. Funny if you look up "cult" and go into dictionaryDOTcom it will like you to "Did you know God has one True Church?" funny!!
@Exodus314IAM I went to the link you gave and again, that same definition could be applied to Christ's church in the meridian of time as well as any church.
@LDStothecore They also fit the LDS Church also, you must admit it. Or not if you want to deny the truth. Seek the truth, God will show you the truth if you can get past the brain washing of the LDS.
Please my friend seek the truth! run from that cult and run to the true Jesus of the Bible!
@LDStothecore No I am saying "the Church of Latter-Day Saints" is a cult. Jesus created His Church and it has never fell or left. Jesus' church will be here untell He takes it away (Matthew 16:18).
Also Jesus said He will be with us always so the Church is with us always (Matthew 28:19-20).
@TheEwanquadreble9 I think the point here is that she is being groomed and coerced against her will. Mormon Polygamists have a track record record of threatening females with HELL and scaring them with Gods Wrath into polygamous submission.
It all started with Joseph Smith and Brigham Young. A pair of assholes.
@jkulesha Yes Abraham screwed around. He was a slut. What do you expect from him? The Guy and his wife Sarah were big time fool hardies. Sarah even told Abraham to screw the housemaid because she wasn't conceiving herself. So Abraham screwed Hagar and she got pregnant and Sarah got mad and threw her out. Sarah later conceived anyway, so what a load of stupidity for NOTHING.
Do LDS leaders have concubines also then? They claim to follow Abraham..
@jkulesha The bible says that Sarah ordered Abraham to screw the housemaid and it turned into disaster.There was no need at all because she conceived in the end.It was a dumb human tragedy.
Joseph Smith used peoples ignorance to write his own twisted version so he could screw around with his housemaids. In fact he was caught romping with 16 year old Fanny Alger so had to come up with some BS to justify it and not appear the sexual predator he was amongst his gullible followers.
@ElderJoseph Is anyone aware that the leader of the FLDS church is in prison for rape and pedophilia? I live in St George, Utah and talk to polygamists all the time. Their practices are EXTREMELY different from the LDS faith. For starters, they kick out most of the boys out on the street because the older men want the younger girls for themselves. This is only one small example of how FLDS are different from LDS. The truth is that people feel threatened by the LDS church and dont understand it.
Are you aware exactly where the FLDS leaders got their 'so called' rape and pedophilia behaviour from???
They are simply living their religion as dictated and 'restored' by their founding prophets Joseph Smith, Brigham Young etc..
The LDS church would do well to distance and dissacociate themselves from Joseph Smith, Brigham Young etc in that respect but they choose not to. Instead they honour them and write and distribute manuals about them.
@lycanthropy2010 "The truth is that people feel threatened by the LDS church and dont understand it"
I think you should give more credit to people.People understand the LDS org very well, in fact too well for the LDS org's liking. They know full well the LDS church is a lying money grabbing business dollar loving cult. I should have listened to people and instead found out the hard way.
@ElderJoseph People who say they understand the lds faith and seek to destroy it truly do not understand the principles. You make it sound like the lds people try to hide their worshipping practices. This would be another misunderstanding on your end. You label the lds church a "lying money grabbing business dollar loving cult". What money exactly are they grabbing? Are you referring to tithing? Are you not aware that tithing is an all around christian concept and is mentioned in the bible?
@lycanthropy2010 "People who say they understand the lds faith and seek to destroy it truly do not understand the principles"
What Principles? Lying for the Lord? Temple arranged polygamy for a future life. Deceiving Investigators and members alike with a false history that missesout outimportant facts?
@ElderJoseph Lying for the lord? Deceiving Investigators and members alike with a false history that missesout outimportant facts? You are knee-deep in internet and youtube anti-lds crud. You easily buy into one side of the equation without ever truly searching and pondering it for yourself. You obviously dont understand the difference between physical earthly polygamy and spiritual temple sealings. Best of luck to you my friend.
@lycanthropy2010 "You easily buy into one side of the equation without ever truly searching and pondering it for yourself"
Yes I bought into the lying and deceiving from the LDS church itself. The Internet taught me the real truth and facts about the church.
In church lessons Joseph Smith was potrayed as a wonderful monogomous husband .In reality he was a husband from HELL, screwing around with his housemaids and other mens wives. He made Emma's life a HELL.
@lycanthropy2010 "You obviously dont understand the difference between physical earthly polygamy and spiritual temple sealings."
Physical earth polygamy was about Old LDS cult leaders screwing young girls in arranged and coerced polygamous marriages in some kind of loopy Salvation claim. Brigham Young would threaten these girls with Hell to enforce his arranged polygamous mariages. The FLDS still continue this practice today.
@lycanthropy2010 "You obviously dont understand the difference between physical earthly polygamy and spiritual temple sealings"
Some Temple sealings are actually Polygamous in nature and intent. A widowed Mormon man can 'SEAL' his next earthly wife while still being sealed to his first one in expectation of calling two or more wives from the grave for himself.
A widowed mormon woman who remarries CANNOT seal her next earthly husband if she is still sealed to the first deceased one.
@lycanthropy2010 "Are you not aware that tithing is an all around christian concept and is mentioned in the bible?"
LDS church uses tithing as an extortion racket much like the Mafia with its protection racket. Pay tithe to have an eternal family or don't pay and suffer and even BURN!
The LDS church is a Business and thats its Priority. Witness its new $3.5 Billion Real estate investment DownTown to see what it is really all about.
@ElderJoseph The LDS faith does not believe you will burn in hell if you don't pay tithing. Your idea is not stated anywhere in the book of Mormon. Mormons believe God is the ultimate judge and determines who will go to hell, regardless of paying tithes. You claim that the LDS church is a business. The LDS church does a lot of investing, but tithing is not used for that. This is another misunderstanding that overwhelms your LDS outlook. If you want to mix fact with fiction, then by all means...
@lycanthropy2010 "The LDS faith does not believe you will burn in hell if you don't pay tithing. "
I didn't say burn in hell. The church does teach that non tithe payers will BURN at the coming of the Mormon Jesus.
See Gospel principles book (1997 Edn) Chapter 32 page 210, see D&C 64:23
The LDS church built up its business assets and activity from past members tithes, Brigham Young made himself wealthy as cult leader. Todays tithes pays alot of salaries/PR etc for the LDS church.
@lycanthropy2010"Are you not aware that tithing is an all around christian concept and is mentioned in the bible?"
LDS theology teaches that 'all around Christians' are being deceived personally by SATAN and his Christian Church representatives ( see LDS temple endowment pre 1990).
LDS theology also teaches that the bible is mistranslated, corrupted and cannot be trusted and has truths missing etc.
@ElderJoseph The LDS church does NOT teach that the bible is corrupted and cannot be trusted. Joseph Smith said " he who reads it oftenest will like it best". The LDS faith realizes that there is truth and good teachings in mostly all religions. In fact, the LDS church has donated time and time again to people of different faiths. It is a cult practice in itself to try to destroy other religions, which is exactly what your agenda is. You have no respect for truth, but for deception.
@lycanthropy2010 "The LDS church does NOT teach that the bible is corrupted and cannot be trusted."
Of course it does. It doesn't say so publicly but privately thats what it teaches.
1 Nephi 13:24 - ......"after the book hath gone forth through the hands of the great and abominable church, that there are many plain and precious things taken away from the book,"
Joseph Smith made many alterations to the bible and the church calls calls it the JST translation.
Joseph Smith's polygamous marriages to young women may seem difficult to understand or explain today, but in his own time such age differences were not typically an obstacle to marriage. The plural marriages were unusual, to say the least; the younger ages of the brides were much less so. Critics do not provide this perspective because they wish to shock the audience and have them judge Joseph by the standards of the modern era, rather than his own time.
scottwins2 1 week ago
@scottwins2 " Critics do not provide this perspective because they wish to shock the audience"
It's shocking stuff yes. Brigham Young was threatening HELL to coerce young girls into marrying old cult leaders.
Orson Pratt was screwing his 16 year old brides and he was in his fifties.
Mormons never Lead the way with any standards but live the worldly standards of their day and do it with more Aggression and Zeal than those they claim are infidels.
CUlt leaders SEX and MONEY!
ElderJoseph 1 week ago
apostate Mormons Ann Eliza Webb Young and her father Chauncery both referred to Fanny's relationship as a "sealing." Ann Eliza also reported that Fanny's family was very proud of Fanny's relationship with Joseph, which makes little sense if it was simply a tawdry affair. Those closest to them saw the marriage as exactly that—a marriage
scottwins2 1 week ago
@scottwins2 " Fanny's relationship with Joseph, which makes little sense if it was simply a tawdry affair. Those closest to them saw the marriage as exactly that—a marriage"
So NO Dynastic sealing here then? The ROMP in the barn was real. Was it their Honeymoon in the HAY! lol
Mormons are so stupid arguing both sides of their mouths!
ElderJoseph 1 week ago
Relationships with Smith were Non-Conjucal
scottwins2 2 weeks ago
@scottwins2 not true, there is actually testimony and affidavits in courts of law from some of the wives of Joseph that stated that they had in fact conjugal visits with Joseph Smith. Please don't lie you just create anti mormons when you lie. You only damage the Mormon church more. Lying is a sin my friend. You should see your bishop and repent.
twoclose2call 1 week ago
@scottwins2 " Relationships with Smith were Non-Conjucal"
What are you talking about? Every other Mormoin Polygamist was screwing his soccer team of chicks so why would they MISUNDERSTAND Smith?
And what business is it of yours what Joseph SMith did with his wives? How dare you even challenge his revelation and what he was doing with his brides. It's non of your business. Just PAY, PRAY and OBEY like a good cult recruit and hand over your wife or daughter to the Prophet if asked.
ElderJoseph 1 week ago
@ElderJoseph historian Todd Compton wrote:
The Tanners made great mileage out of Joseph Smith's marriage to his youngest wife, Helen Mar Kimball. However, they failed to mention that I wrote that there is absolutely no evidence that there was any sexuality in the marriage, and I suggest that, following later practice in Utah, there may have been no sexuality. p. 638 All the evidence points to this marriage as a primarily dynastic marriage.
purrpose was likely to tie families together,
scottwins2 1 week ago
@scottwins2 " purrpose was likely to tie families together,"
So why does Helen recall "My father had but one Ewe Lamb, but willingly laid her upon the alter”
Hardly some kind of dynastic paper excercise. And if Smith wasn't really marring anyone else in the proper sense then why did Beigham Young round up girls like Battery hens and screw them if Joseph never had that in mind and that polygamy was purley dynastic? BS cult BS.
Shove your ASSpologetics .. FAIRy nonsense. lol
ElderJoseph 1 week ago
@ElderJoseph " All the evidence points to this marriage as a primarily dynastic marriage. purrpose was likely to tie families together,"
If marrying 14 year old Helen was some kind of Dynastic Paper excercise to bind families only then why didn't Joseph Smith marry Heber Kimballs wife instead?? That would have done the job of binding families and he did marry other men's wives often.
Instead of OLD Vilate Kimball. Smith decides 14 yrs old Helen is preferable!!
Grooming for sex.
ElderJoseph 1 week ago
Spin it Shawn Spint! Everybody knows all their information on Fanny is second or THIRD hand!
scottwins2 2 weeks ago
@scottwins2 " Everybody knows all their information on Fanny is second or THIRD hand!"
So why has someone in the Mormon Cult with an introductory note backdated the D&C 132 Revelation so as to include Fanny Alger?
Check it out in your D&C!
Yes 'everbody' knows. You make me laugh. My ward members (even bishop) didn't even know Smith used a hat to peep into and read off a regular garden rock.
The depth of dishonesty in LDS CES Sunday School manuals is Top Class.
ElderJoseph 2 weeks ago
@ElderJoseph Probably the wife about whom we know the least is Fanny Alger, Joseph's first plural wife, whom he came to know in early 1833 when she stayed at the Smith home as a house-assistant of sorts to Emma (such work was common for young women at the time). There are no first-hand accounts of their relationship (from Joseph or Fanny), nor are there second-hand accounts (from Emma or Fanny's family). All that we do have is third hand accounts, most of them recorded many years after...
scottwins2 1 week ago
@scottwins2 " Probably the wife about whom we know the least is Fanny Alger, Joseph's first plural wife, whom he came to know in early 1833"
THis sounds like Mormon Apologist Cope and Paste.
DO NOT send me anymore CopY and PASTE SHITE from FAIRS and FARMS.
Either speak your own words or go and waste someone elses life and time.
ElderJoseph 1 week ago
@scottwins2
Richard Bushman LDS Stake Patriarch and Author of Rough Stone Rolling page 325 "Smith "never denied a relationship with Alger, but insisted it was not adulterous. He wanted it on record that he had never confessed to such a sin."
And what about Heln Marr KImball aged 14 for marriage? Yes FIrst Hand !!
What about Smith marrying other mens wives? Yes FIrst Hand.
Smith ASKING for other mens wives? First hand and published in J.O.D!
Sweet Fanny . D&C backdated for you!
ElderJoseph 2 weeks ago
there both mormons read DC 132 see Joseph Smith true colors.
jayhawk88z 3 months ago
At least the crazy FLDS are authentic and honest about their beliefs.
TheSoulamore 3 months ago
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TheSoulamore 4 months ago
A woman that wants to get marred to a already marred man. Oh deer
theshakter 4 months ago
@theshakter "A woman that wants to get marred to a already marred man. Oh deer"
Unfortunataely she has been deceived into thinking she will get a good place in Mormon Celestial Kingdom and that she has little choice unless she wants to suffer damnation.
Thats what cult leaders Joseph Smith and Brigham Young created.
ElderJoseph 4 months ago
@ElderJoseph I wonder how she would feel if that same man marrys someone else.
Its all adultery
theshakter 4 months ago
Found out this clown screens all his calls and there are tons of people he won't talk to . So much for getting the truth out .
mollymu1 4 months ago
@mollymu1 " and there are tons of people he won't talk to "
What you really mean is no General Authority will come on the show. Now that is so much for them getting any truth out. They know they are running a lying con.
Give him a call if you are LDS, FLDS, RLDS or one of the other 100 plus Mormon versions !
ElderJoseph 4 months ago 2
@ElderJoseph They wouldn't stoop to entertain this clown's lies .
mollymu1 4 months ago
@mollymu1 " They wouldn't stoop to entertain this clown's lies ."
LDS General Authorities are the Deceivers. They purposely evade the facts of the cult they are steering. Thats the reason they would never answer to any questions or appear on any show. What would be more fitting than to see a GA put him right? Truth is they can't and they know it!
They are fake and are not Apostles called but self styled. Enjoy the new $4 Billion shopping Mall ( thats what LDS is really about) Real estate.
ElderJoseph 4 months ago 2
@mollymu1 limited amount of time, dude. of course they screen calls.
anonazero 4 months ago
@anonazero I thought the same thing when I read his response. All talk show screen calls. He takes on some very devoted callers and I think does a great job of accepting and beating challenging positions. He's running from none.
Here2ownU 3 months ago
mormonism is a cult.its all about money power and women for the men.thats how smith started it and thats how its done today.they need to know the truth of Jesus Christ not some man who claims to be a prophet.i will continue to pray for them
ljtmetal 4 months ago
More lies. There is no such thing as a Mormon Priesthood holder polygamist.
LDStothecore 4 months ago
@MormonFacts1 What's dumb?
LDStothecore 4 months ago
Man comes up with all kinds of ways to get to heaven. Jesus said I am the way and He says believe in Him and you will be saved. Very simple. But fleshly man loves to control and manipulate people and put people in to bondage. Jesus said His yoke is easy and His burden is light.
BloodyLoveEnglish 5 months ago
This is a great video clip. MONUMENTAL KUDOS to Shawn, Doris and to ELDER JOSEPH for putting this on display. If polygamy really was gods plan to raise up an LDS seed then the LDS female to male birth rate would sky rocket, so men really could have more than one wife in the scheme of things, but the thing is IT NEVER HAPPENED ! if it did we'd never hear the end of it from the DAMN MORmONS! Polygamy is BS, MORmONISM is BS!
baxfikkle555 5 months ago
@baxfikkle555 The reason for my channel is becuase the Mormon Church has pi**ed me off big time.
Two years of my life being Stitched Up by a church and it's educational system that knows it is deceiving people, that purposely omits facts from church manuals and instead publishes obvious deception.
Then I have a gripe with a personal member who truly refletcs the Standard of Mormon Bullshit and what it is all about!
Never trust a MORmON! They can't help lying for the Mormon Lord.
ElderJoseph 5 months ago
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I thought it was one man one dog!
vcomp1960 5 months ago
""You educate a man; you educate a man. You educate a woman; you educate a generation." Brigham Young
scottwins2 7 months ago
Shawn truly is a man of God. How deep the love of God that he can remove a man like Shawn from the false religon of Mormonism and bring him into the greater light and freedom of Jesus Christ!!!
ASchultz73 9 months ago
@ASchultz73 McCraney is an anti-Christ.
JackNimble61 8 months ago
This guy gives references in the scriptures he tells you facts look it up yourself
bobbyraejohnson 9 months ago
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@Ingle92protege I guess you are illiterate, then.
LDStothecore 10 months ago
Bumper sticker on Joseph SmYth's horse drawn wagon"
Life's a BITCH!!...............and I Married 28 Of Them!!
CounterCultureLives 10 months ago
McCraney is an anti-Christ.
LDStothecore 11 months ago
@LDStothecore Thats a dumb statement, but I've learned not to expect any better from silly Mormons. Why don't you become JWtothecore like some of their dumb sucker recruits?
ElderJoseph 11 months ago
@ElderJoseph It's true. His goal is to be popular and seen of men. He wants to draw people away from Christ, not toward Him. He is rude, vile, contentious toward anyone he doesn't agree with.
LDStothecore 11 months ago
@LDStothecore "His goal is to be popular and seen of men"
Actually he is exposing deceptive Mormon non biblical, non christian false teachings. What do you expect?
If you were recruiting for a Ponzi Scheme which scams people you would say the same about anyone exposing that fraud too. Thats what brainwashing and mind conditioning does to people.
ElderJoseph 11 months ago
@ElderJoseph You obviously know nothing of McCraney like you know nothing of God. Just looking at your profile and your language is proof enough.
LDStothecore 11 months ago
@LDStothecore Claiming McCraney is an anti-Christ is a judgmental claim so stong that if your wrong as according to Christs own words "Judge not lest ye be judged and a full measure be shaken down and added to you." .... This puts you in true peril and I would be curious if you would care to try and back up your claim with facts or withdraw the claim.
RedSun875 10 months ago
@RedSun875 Watch his TV show for proof.
LDStothecore 10 months ago
@RedSun875 How do you define an anti-Christ?
LDStothecore 10 months ago
@LDStothecore One who is against Jesus. Shawn does not make such a claim. He claims the opposite. What in your mind makes an antichrist?
RedSun875 10 months ago
@RedSun875 I doubt an anti-Christ would ever say he is against Christ. That's what the devil wants, to deceive. McCraney purposely deceives and lies.
LDStothecore 10 months ago
@LDStothecore Actually according to scripture an antichrist is one that denies the literal resurection of Jesus. It is those that reject the entire claims of Jesus. Look up antichrist on a bibal word search, see for yourself and rethink your hash claim.
RedSun875 10 months ago
@RedSun875 So Satan would not be an anti-Christ? He knows Jesus was resurrected. To me anti-Christ is anyone that fights against Him and that applies to McCraney and many others. I would say look it up in the Bible Dictionary, but I know you will not do that, because you don't want to know all sides to anything.
LDStothecore 10 months ago
@LDStothecore You are correct, anyone who fights against Christ can be considered a Anti-Christ. So who is your Jesus? Is He God (John 1; John 10; 1 Timothy 3) or is Jesus "a" god and the older brother of Satan, a created being from the physical union of Marry and God? Or was it the Holy Ghost that overshadowed Marry causing her to be with child (Matthew 1:18-20 and Luke 1:35), no physical union just the "Shadow".
Who is your Christ? are you an Anti-Christ of the Biblical Jesus?
Exodus314IAM 7 months ago
@LDStothecore thats funny that you say that because the sole purpose of his show is to bring people to Christ, how is he fighting against Him when hes reading straight from the Bible telling you what God says and telling you that is the only way you can be given salvation. he is fighting against a religion that is teaching the wrong things, your right he is a bit harsh, but its towards the religion.
oJSpecs 7 months ago
@oJSpecs I did NOT say McCraney's purpose it to bring people to Christ. His purpose is to pull them AWAY from Christ. MOST of what he says is either a flat out lie or lies mixed with truth, which is EXACTLY what Satan does.
LDStothecore 7 months ago
@LDStothecore he is reading straigh from the Bible, its all truth. your self-porclaimed prohepts are the ones who mix truth with lies. just exactly what lies has he told? give me a few exapmles please
oJSpecs 7 months ago
@oJSpecs So you refuse to address what I say about your lies. Also, I give you just ONE lie he tells and I will leave it at that. He says that D&C 132 says polygamy is necessary for exaltation. That is false.
LDStothecore 7 months ago
@LDStothecore and its also funny that you say redsun doesnt want to know both sides, when i see constantly with every mormon caller on shawns show, all they ever say is i know the church is true, and say that shawn is lying, and hes telling them to go look up the facts hes telling them but they never do they just continue to says hes a liar without backing it up with anything and, he gets his information from the Bible, and from your church's history, and from the book of mormon.
oJSpecs 7 months ago
@oJSpecs We LDS know the church to true, yes, but we don't cut others down. I have research all the garbage he and others say and the LDS church is still True. I have backed up everything I say and all you antis do is change the subject, so get a life.
LDStothecore 7 months ago
@LDStothecore how can you still believe the teachings of joseph smith are true when you can look in the Bible, the REAL word of God, and it contradicts so many things joseph smith has taught. how can you not see, you have been blinded by a man.
oJSpecs 7 months ago
@oJSpecs Reread what I said. Also, give me one thing that Joseph said that does not agree with the Bible.
LDStothecore 7 months ago
@LDStothecore the only thing you've said i lied about is about the church, which proves my point that all you focus on is whats said about the church, not about the teachings of the word of God. and alright fine, what does the church teach about polygamy then? and i only have to give you one thing that was wrong about his teachings? thats easy, how bout the fact that the lds church teaches that God was once a man that had to progress to be a god? the Bible in no way teaches that.
oJSpecs 7 months ago
@oJSpecs At least you admit you lied, which is a SIN. There are many things that so-called Christians teach that are not found in the Bible. There is not a definite answer on the plural marriage question. All I need to know is that God commanded Joseph to do it. Also, there was polygamy approved by God in the Old Testament.
LDStothecore 7 months ago
@LDStothecore what if i was to tell you God came to me and told me that the mormon religion was giving false teachings and He wanted to me fight against it to try to save all the members? what would you say if i told you that?
oJSpecs 7 months ago
@oJSpecs God does not work that way. Do you even study the Bible? God says we should not fight, etc. We teach people the true Gospel and invite the Spirit and if people accept great, but no one is forced.
LDStothecore 7 months ago
@LDStothecore so you believe that God wouldnt tell someone to go against a religion teaching false teachings but you believe that he would tell joseph smith to practice polygamy? there is somthing seriously wrong with your logic.
oJSpecs 7 months ago
@oJSpecs God would never tell someone treat others badly. And polygamy was practised in the Old Testament. If God wants someone to practise it He can tell them if He wants.
LDStothecore 7 months ago
@LDStothecore thats not what i said, i said going against a false RELIGION, not PEOPLE. so do you admit that you believe that God wouldnt tell someone to go against a religion that has false teachings, but He would tell somebody to practice polygamy?
oJSpecs 7 months ago
@oJSpecs God witnessed to me that Joseph was His chosen prophet, etc, but you antis, especially McCraney, treat LDS very badly.
LDStothecore 7 months ago
@LDStothecore or how about how the lds church teaches that one day we can all be gods in heaven, God tells us He is the ONLY TRUE GOD, there are no others, and then you still believe that a religion that teaches that we can be gods in heaven is still true? i dont understand that at all, how can you be foolish enough to believe such a thing?
oJSpecs 7 months ago
@oJSpecs You need to study the Bible more and you might find it.
LDStothecore 7 months ago
@LDStothecore God himself, was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!...it is necessary we should understand the character and being of God and how He came to be so; for I am going to tell you how God CAME TO BE God. (History of the Church, vol. 6, p. 305) that right there is another thing, God was always God, He didnt have to become God, He was always God, thats what the Bible teaches, but mormns teach different, why is that?
oJSpecs 7 months ago
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@oJSpecs So you are not going to look in the Bible? We teach the truth. If you choose to ignore it, I am sorry.
LDStothecore 7 months ago
@LDStothecore and you say theres no way shawn can be doing it out of love, and you say he has bad intentions, and you back that up with saying hes a mean and vile person. So do you also believe Jesus had bad intentions, because when He was addressing people about their beliefs He was in no way nice to them, he insulted them and called them names. so do you also believe that Jesus had secret evil motives behind what He was saying?
oJSpecs 7 months ago
@oJSpecs You blaspheme. Christ NEVER insulted, mocked, belittled anyone. He called them to repentance, yes, but He NEVER did what antiChrist McCraney does. McCraney's motives are not secret at all. BTW, are you an apostate?
LDStothecore 7 months ago
@LDStothecore so Jesus was nice to the people? or was he putting down their beliefs, He did not sugar coat it. all shawn is doing is telling people the truth of the Bible in a non sugar coated way. just because he is blunt with how he says it does not mean hes evil. and im am a Lutheran who believes the Bible says, not the book of mormon.and his motives aren't secret your right, he states all the time he is trying to bring people to truly know Jesus by wht God says, not by what a man says.
oJSpecs 7 months ago
@oJSpecs You will never understand until you humble yourself. You didn't answer if you are apostate. McCraney is not blunt, he is NOT Christian. I believe the Bible also. You lie. His motives are evil.
LDStothecore 7 months ago
@LDStothecore im completely humble, i know im a terrible person and i deserve nothing but to go to hell. and honestly im not sure what the definition of an apostate is. he tells it as it is, thats being blunt about it is it not? and hes teaching directly from the Bible, how is he not christian, and what makes you say his motives are evil? what has he done and taught to "prove" he has evil motives?
oJSpecs 7 months ago
@oJSpecs Your humility is false. Sounds like this guy on the same channel that every week says he is just redeemed dirt. I am not going to keep going in circles with you. I assume you have never seen his show.
LDStothecore 7 months ago
@LDStothecore nothing about that comment if false, so i have no idea what you talking about. and you continue to say that i must not watch his show, instead of telling me what it is that makes you think his motives are evil?
oJSpecs 7 months ago
@oJSpecs If you have ever seen his show, you would see that he is evil. Regarding what's false in your comment, for someone to say "I am humble" is proof he is not humble.
LDStothecore 7 months ago
@LDStothecore i've seen plenty of it, i dont see how he is evil at all. you continue to make these claims about him being evil but your not backing it up in anyway, the best you've got is saying that hes lying, thats all you've done, back it up, give me proof. and i wasn't saying in a cocky sense like your making it out to be, by it i meant i know that i am a bad person, i sin ver frequently, i give in to the pleasures of the flesh all the time, i am simply no good.
oJSpecs 7 months ago
@oJSpecs I have said this numerous times. He is rude and belittling to anyone that supports the LDS church, he lies about D&C 132 and mixes truth with lies. That is Satan's way.
LDStothecore 6 months ago
@LDStothecore Can you say blind? yeap you can!! Watch it LDtothecore, pay attention LDS. Remember, you will be account of every word that comes out of your mind, and remember, there's not a leaf that fall off a tree without God knowing about it, if Shawn is lying God will deal with him, Shawn puts Gods word to the test!! what do you do? only stupid words that have no meaning.
Chinaculiacan 6 months ago
@Chinaculiacan You are obviously blinded by your pride. Are you also apostate? And, yes, God will deal with McCraney and all that work against Christ.
LDStothecore 6 months ago
@LDStothecore Work against Christ? I see, so he helps people to get out of bandage by a church that dictates about tithing and so many other things to come closer to Christ!! Yeap!! His doing Christ Work indeed.
Chinaculiacan 6 months ago
@Chinaculiacan I assume you mean bondage. Would you say Moses had the Israelites in bondage? The Lord gives us commandments and it is up to us to obey.
LDStothecore 6 months ago
@LDStothecore You got the point! tithing is a commandment? really? that's a new one, thou shall give thithing. hum? The Israelites were in bondage already!! You do what u FEEL, get that? feel what to do, say to the Lord, I pay tithing, I was productive, i didn't miss my priesthood duties, I, I, I,. Don't u get tired of I?
Chinaculiacan 6 months ago
@Chinaculiacan Who were they in bondage to? I am talking about AFTER they left Egypt. You haven't answered (no surprise).
LDStothecore 6 months ago
@LDStothecore To themselves after being in the desert for so long, still they felt they were better in Egypt. Couldn't trust the Lord.
Chinaculiacan 6 months ago
@Chinaculiacan Again no response.
LDStothecore 6 months ago
@LDStothecore Why should I response something that would make you feel good about yourself, YOU ARE AN ANTI-CHRIST? Ops! I'm sounding like you! LOL. Keep defending Joe, maybe when he Resurrects, he'll be asking for your wife, Not! He'll b judge by Jesus! Hahahahahahaha!! unless you are a woman! lol. And if you are, he might be asking for you and your daughter!! to live with him in his planet with his many spiritual wives, hum, so tempting for a man to become Mormon.
Chinaculiacan 6 months ago
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@Chinaculiacan You don't respond because you CANNOT!! You are an idiot.
LDStothecore 6 months ago
@LDStothecore the only times i've seen him be kinda rude is when the lds callers do it first. i've never heard shawn tell a mormon that their name isn't supposed to be spoken in their house. and I've heard lds callers try to put down shawns appereance multiple times, and i've never heard him do it once. he only puts down the religion, not the people. you lds are the ones who attack him personally, almost every lds caller does it, and dont even try to say they dont, i've seen it many times.
oJSpecs 6 months ago
@oJSpecs You have to admit, he does dress like a slob, but that's probably to get a reaction. If you want to see his unprovoked mocking, go to hotmdottv and watch the show he did this week. You have not seen the show if you think he doesn't put down the people.
LDStothecore 6 months ago
@LDStothecore and you didnt answer my question. do you honestly believe that God would tell somebody to practice polygamy but wouldn't tell someone to go against a religion with false teachings?
oJSpecs 7 months ago
@oJSpecs God can tell anyone anything He desires, whether it be plural marriage or something else. However, He does not work by arguing. We are not to fight with each other, but teach the Gospel and let people follow if they wish, but not to belittle and lie.
LDStothecore 6 months ago
@LDStothecore God tells plural marriage? OMG! Can you be any stupiter?
Chinaculiacan 6 months ago
@Chinaculiacan Did you really say "stupiter?" How old are you?
LDStothecore 6 months ago
@LDStothecore Stupider!! old Enough. You still defending your prophet! (no surprise)
Chinaculiacan 6 months ago
@LDStothecore and there you go again saying i must not watch his show instead of giving me an example of how he is evil. and your being very judgemental of my character, im not being rude at all, i actually dont like being rude to people. your actually the one who is being boarderline rude, and being very judgemental, so dont try get people to be on your side by trying to make it look like im being a rude person because im not
oJSpecs 7 months ago
@LDStothecore pay attention to the conversations, every mormon caller puts shawn down constantly, why is it that when mormons call all the ever talk about is shawn is lying about the church, they comment on shawns looks, and talk about how he funds his show, but its never about his teachings of Christ, its always just personal attacks towards him, they happen because he attacks your religion. and they try to make him seem as bad as possible so people might be less likely to believe what he says.
oJSpecs 7 months ago
@oJSpecs You must not watch the show much. I have seen humble people call and bear their testimony and he just mocks them. You lie when you say LDS only call to talk about his looks, etc. He is a liar and a hypocrite. He claims to love LDS, but his treatment is anything but love. If he loved LDS he would be humble about what he spews.
LDStothecore 7 months ago
@LDStothecore no he mocks and puts down the teachings of joseph smith not the people. they are the ones who downgrade shawn, they sugar coat it, but they still say it. and your doing nothing to prove me wrong, your actually proving my point more.you just keep saying that hes a liar, and only defending what he says about the CHRUCH, you claim hes the anti-christ and that he brings people away from Christ, but you have still not given me one example of him doing so.
oJSpecs 7 months ago
@oJSpecs I have given you plenty. Looks like you are a liar also. McCraney mocks the people that call. Pulling people away from the truth is pulling them away from Christ and that's his goal.
LDStothecore 7 months ago
@LDStothecore and by the way, about you saying you've given me plenty of examples of shawn bringing people away from Christ....no you havent. your just making the statement, and the best you've done to back it up is say hes a mean person.tell me some of the things he teaches that you believe bring people away from Christ. BESIDES what he says about the church, only what he teaches about the GOSPEL
oJSpecs 7 months ago
@oJSpecs It's like I explained to my brother yesterday. There is only ONE way to heaven, not many. The LDS Church is literally Christ's only church on the earth. AntiChrist McCraney is drawing people away and his doctrine of Christ is FALSE.
LDStothecore 7 months ago
@LDStothecore It might be best that you actually look up the term antichrist and define it by biblical standards before you run around labeling others so.
RedSun875 10 months ago
@RedSun875 I did look it up. Did you?
LDStothecore 10 months ago
@LDStothecore If you had which I have you would have understood your statement is too harsh. Should you disagree feel free to post the verses and try to prove me wrong. If not, feel free to digress.
RedSun875 10 months ago
@RedSun875 Go to ldsdotorg, choose scriptures, go to study helps and look up antichrist.
LDStothecore 10 months ago
@LDStothecore why is it that i never have a mormon just tell me the "proof" backing up their statements, they always tell me to go read one of the mormon doctrines, why cant you just tell me. and also along those lines why do they always tell you to read the MORMON doctrines to back their statements up, why dont they ever tell you to read the Bible to back up their statements? the closest they get is saying that its in the Bible, but they never tell you where it says it
oJSpecs 7 months ago
@oJSpecs We do back up our beliefs with the Bible. And what exactly do you want proof about? Tell me what we claim is in the Bible and I will answer. However, you people are always rude. Not Christlike.
LDStothecore 7 months ago
@LDStothecore like give me proof from the Bible that it says one day we can be gods. and where it says that God was once a man.
oJSpecs 7 months ago
@oJSpecs Look up Godhead on ldsdotorg under scriptures and study helps. I don't know if the Bible says God was once a man, but the Bible doesn't contain all that was ever said by God.
LDStothecore 6 months ago
@LDStothecore it doesnt, in the Bible God says that He has no beginning and no end, He has always been God. yet the lds teach that God was once a man who had to go throuhg all the problems that we go through in order to become a god. that is completely wrong, and the lds do claim that it IS in the Bible. and you didnt cover the first question. where in the Bible does it say that we can become gods? and dont tell me to read an lds doctrine, we're talking about what the Bible says not a prophet
oJSpecs 6 months ago
@oJSpecs If you are not willing to do a little research I can't help you.
LDStothecore 6 months ago
@LDStothecore what? i've given you proof of lds teaching that God was once a man. and everybody knows God tells us in the Bible that He has always been God, He has no beginning or end, He did not have to BECOME God He was. He also says there were no gods before Him and there will be none after Him. That disproves that He had a heveanly father that created Him, and that we can one day be gods in heaven. what more research do i need to do to know its false? YOU need to research the Bible more
oJSpecs 6 months ago
@LDStothecore so i've done the research, are you ready to actually answer my questions like you said you would, or are you gonna try to find another cop out like you've been doin this whole time? and dont take that as me trying to belittle you because im not
oJSpecs 6 months ago
@oJSpecs Give me a valid, sincere question.
LDStothecore 6 months ago
@LDStothecore what i dont understand is how can you believe the lds church is true when it teaches things such as God was once a man who had a heveanly father and mother that created Him, and that He had to overcome the trials, that we overcome today, to become God, when God tells us in the Bible He has no beginning and no end. how can you believe in somthing like that? and ill admit i think shawn is a lil to harsh to the people at times, but its mostly at the religion.
oJSpecs 6 months ago
@oJSpecs There are many things you antis claim are doctrine which they are NOT!! Many things are not made known to us at this time. Next question.
LDStothecore 6 months ago
@LDStothecore what? what about that is false? the lds DO teach that God was once a man, and God DOES say in the Bible that He has no beginning and no end, Alpha and Omega. so which part of my last comment are you trying to say is false? because either way your gonna be wrong.
oJSpecs 6 months ago
@oJSpecs Re-read my response. Next question.
LDStothecore 6 months ago
@LDStothecore Gospel Fundamentals, 2002.
It will help us to remember that our Father in Heaven was once a man who lived on an earth, the same as we do. He became our Father in Heaven by overcoming problems, just as we have to do on this earth. (p. 204) another piece of proof of what the lds church teaches that is not true. so if your really trying to say the lds dont teach this, because thats what it seems like your saying, you are a liar.
oJSpecs 6 months ago
@LDStothecore Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Brigham Young, 1997. The doctrine that God was once a man and has progressed to become a God is unique to this Church. How do you feel, knowing that God, through His own experience, "knows all that we know regarding the toils [and] sufferings" of mortality? (p. 34) all you said was that antis claim things are doctrine that are not, that doesnt answer my question. and what have i claimed to be doctrine that isn't?
oJSpecs 6 months ago
@oJSpecs The funny thing is that you always say that someone has not answered your questions yet you will dance around any question that is put to you. For all true Christians who are trying to talk to Mormons, this is what they are trained to do, they will not answer your question only the question they want you to ask. They dodge and twist and blame but never answer. Satans claws are deep in the LDS and he will not let go easily!
Pray for them my Christian brothers and sisters!
Exodus314IAM 6 months ago
@Exodus314IAM what questions have i danced around? this whole time i've been contending what he has said, and i've asked questions and i dont feel that they have been answered. and i completely agree with you that the lds are wrong in what they are teaching.
oJSpecs 6 months ago
@LDStothecore - idiot!
54v115 9 months ago
@54v115 Thank you.
LDStothecore 8 months ago
@54v115 You are nice.
LDStothecore 7 months ago
@LDStothecore and exactly how is he?
oJSpecs 7 months ago
@oJSpecs What is your question?
LDStothecore 7 months ago
@LDStothecore how is he the anti-christ?
oJSpecs 7 months ago
@oJSpecs I didn't say he is THE anti-Christ, but AN anti-Christ. Anyone that works to pull people away from Christ is an anti-Christ.
LDStothecore 7 months ago
@LDStothecore how is he an anti-christ? i dont see how he is pulling people away from Christ, i see him helping them to come closer to Him. can you give me an example of how he pulls people away from Christ?
oJSpecs 7 months ago
@oJSpecs He is rude, vile, lies about what we believe and he is trying to get people away from the only true church of Christ on the earth. That is anti-Christ. If you don't believe the LDS church, you cannot deny the other vile things he does and the way he treats others. That also is against what Christ taught.
LDStothecore 7 months ago
@LDStothecore Did you know the #1 way to tell a Cult is when the claim to be "the only true church of Christ on the earth"?
Jehovah’s Witnesses - "Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society the one and only channel..."
Iglesia ni Cristo - "outside the Church of Christ no one can be considered a true believer"
International Church of Christ - "There is nobody else in this country that That has the true gospel"
I can go on...
Seek the truth my friend!
Exodus314IAM 6 months ago
@Exodus314IAM I agree, amen
MrUNIXman 6 months ago
@Exodus314IAM You obviously don't know the real definition of cult. If you did you would see that even the church Christ set up when he was here would be considered a cult. Your definition is biased.
LDStothecore 6 months ago
@LDStothecore What are you talking about? First I did not say this is the "definition of a cult" I said this is the #1 way to tell a group is a cult. Second?? what are you talking about the church Christ set up was considered a cult?
Seek the truth my friend and get away from the cult!!! Sorry for the blunt response.
Exodus314IAM 6 months ago
@Exodus314IAM Look up the unbiased definition of cult.
LDStothecore 6 months ago
@LDStothecore do you mean the LDS definition? of course that is the only one you can use. Funny if you look up "cult" and go into dictionaryDOTcom it will like you to "Did you know God has one True Church?" funny!!
Seek the truth!
Exodus314IAM 6 months ago
@Exodus314IAM I went to the link you gave and again, that same definition could be applied to Christ's church in the meridian of time as well as any church.
LDStothecore 6 months ago
@LDStothecore They also fit the LDS Church also, you must admit it. Or not if you want to deny the truth. Seek the truth, God will show you the truth if you can get past the brain washing of the LDS.
Please my friend seek the truth! run from that cult and run to the true Jesus of the Bible!
Exodus314IAM 6 months ago
@Exodus314IAM Are you saying Christ's church was a cult? I already found the truth.
LDStothecore 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@LDStothecore No I am saying "the Church of Latter-Day Saints" is a cult. Jesus created His Church and it has never fell or left. Jesus' church will be here untell He takes it away (Matthew 16:18).
Also Jesus said He will be with us always so the Church is with us always (Matthew 28:19-20).
Exodus314IAM 5 months ago
Seriously. If she wants to marry a guy with multiple wives. Fucking well let her get on with it.
TheEwanquadreble9 1 year ago
@TheEwanquadreble9 I think the point here is that she is being groomed and coerced against her will. Mormon Polygamists have a track record record of threatening females with HELL and scaring them with Gods Wrath into polygamous submission.
It all started with Joseph Smith and Brigham Young. A pair of assholes.
ElderJoseph 1 year ago 3
Did they ever end up getting Jamie out of there????
willeilers1 1 year ago
The bible says abraham had concubines, read your bible shawn mccraney, free book of mormon at mormon.org
jkulesha 1 year ago
@jkulesha Yes Abraham screwed around. He was a slut. What do you expect from him? The Guy and his wife Sarah were big time fool hardies. Sarah even told Abraham to screw the housemaid because she wasn't conceiving herself. So Abraham screwed Hagar and she got pregnant and Sarah got mad and threw her out. Sarah later conceived anyway, so what a load of stupidity for NOTHING.
Do LDS leaders have concubines also then? They claim to follow Abraham..
ElderJoseph 1 year ago
@ElderJoseph Mormon scriptures say God gave abraham hagar to wife...
jkulesha 1 year ago
@jkulesha The bible says that Sarah ordered Abraham to screw the housemaid and it turned into disaster.There was no need at all because she conceived in the end.It was a dumb human tragedy.
Joseph Smith used peoples ignorance to write his own twisted version so he could screw around with his housemaids. In fact he was caught romping with 16 year old Fanny Alger so had to come up with some BS to justify it and not appear the sexual predator he was amongst his gullible followers.
ElderJoseph 1 year ago
@ElderJoseph Is anyone aware that the leader of the FLDS church is in prison for rape and pedophilia? I live in St George, Utah and talk to polygamists all the time. Their practices are EXTREMELY different from the LDS faith. For starters, they kick out most of the boys out on the street because the older men want the younger girls for themselves. This is only one small example of how FLDS are different from LDS. The truth is that people feel threatened by the LDS church and dont understand it.
lycanthropy2010 1 year ago
@lycanthropy2010
Are you aware exactly where the FLDS leaders got their 'so called' rape and pedophilia behaviour from???
They are simply living their religion as dictated and 'restored' by their founding prophets Joseph Smith, Brigham Young etc..
The LDS church would do well to distance and dissacociate themselves from Joseph Smith, Brigham Young etc in that respect but they choose not to. Instead they honour them and write and distribute manuals about them.
ElderJoseph 1 year ago
@lycanthropy2010 "The truth is that people feel threatened by the LDS church and dont understand it"
I think you should give more credit to people.People understand the LDS org very well, in fact too well for the LDS org's liking. They know full well the LDS church is a lying money grabbing business dollar loving cult. I should have listened to people and instead found out the hard way.
ElderJoseph 1 year ago
@ElderJoseph People who say they understand the lds faith and seek to destroy it truly do not understand the principles. You make it sound like the lds people try to hide their worshipping practices. This would be another misunderstanding on your end. You label the lds church a "lying money grabbing business dollar loving cult". What money exactly are they grabbing? Are you referring to tithing? Are you not aware that tithing is an all around christian concept and is mentioned in the bible?
lycanthropy2010 1 year ago
@lycanthropy2010 "People who say they understand the lds faith and seek to destroy it truly do not understand the principles"
What Principles? Lying for the Lord? Temple arranged polygamy for a future life. Deceiving Investigators and members alike with a false history that missesout outimportant facts?
ElderJoseph 1 year ago
@ElderJoseph Lying for the lord? Deceiving Investigators and members alike with a false history that missesout outimportant facts? You are knee-deep in internet and youtube anti-lds crud. You easily buy into one side of the equation without ever truly searching and pondering it for yourself. You obviously dont understand the difference between physical earthly polygamy and spiritual temple sealings. Best of luck to you my friend.
lycanthropy2010 1 year ago
@lycanthropy2010 "You easily buy into one side of the equation without ever truly searching and pondering it for yourself"
Yes I bought into the lying and deceiving from the LDS church itself. The Internet taught me the real truth and facts about the church.
In church lessons Joseph Smith was potrayed as a wonderful monogomous husband .In reality he was a husband from HELL, screwing around with his housemaids and other mens wives. He made Emma's life a HELL.
ElderJoseph 1 year ago
@lycanthropy2010 "You obviously dont understand the difference between physical earthly polygamy and spiritual temple sealings."
Physical earth polygamy was about Old LDS cult leaders screwing young girls in arranged and coerced polygamous marriages in some kind of loopy Salvation claim. Brigham Young would threaten these girls with Hell to enforce his arranged polygamous mariages. The FLDS still continue this practice today.
ElderJoseph 1 year ago
@lycanthropy2010 "You obviously dont understand the difference between physical earthly polygamy and spiritual temple sealings"
Some Temple sealings are actually Polygamous in nature and intent. A widowed Mormon man can 'SEAL' his next earthly wife while still being sealed to his first one in expectation of calling two or more wives from the grave for himself.
A widowed mormon woman who remarries CANNOT seal her next earthly husband if she is still sealed to the first deceased one.
ElderJoseph 1 year ago
@lycanthropy2010 "Are you not aware that tithing is an all around christian concept and is mentioned in the bible?"
LDS church uses tithing as an extortion racket much like the Mafia with its protection racket. Pay tithe to have an eternal family or don't pay and suffer and even BURN!
The LDS church is a Business and thats its Priority. Witness its new $3.5 Billion Real estate investment DownTown to see what it is really all about.
ElderJoseph 1 year ago
@ElderJoseph The LDS faith does not believe you will burn in hell if you don't pay tithing. Your idea is not stated anywhere in the book of Mormon. Mormons believe God is the ultimate judge and determines who will go to hell, regardless of paying tithes. You claim that the LDS church is a business. The LDS church does a lot of investing, but tithing is not used for that. This is another misunderstanding that overwhelms your LDS outlook. If you want to mix fact with fiction, then by all means...
lycanthropy2010 1 year ago
@lycanthropy2010 "The LDS faith does not believe you will burn in hell if you don't pay tithing. "
I didn't say burn in hell. The church does teach that non tithe payers will BURN at the coming of the Mormon Jesus.
See Gospel principles book (1997 Edn) Chapter 32 page 210, see D&C 64:23
The LDS church built up its business assets and activity from past members tithes, Brigham Young made himself wealthy as cult leader. Todays tithes pays alot of salaries/PR etc for the LDS church.
ElderJoseph 1 year ago
@lycanthropy2010"Are you not aware that tithing is an all around christian concept and is mentioned in the bible?"
LDS theology teaches that 'all around Christians' are being deceived personally by SATAN and his Christian Church representatives ( see LDS temple endowment pre 1990).
LDS theology also teaches that the bible is mistranslated, corrupted and cannot be trusted and has truths missing etc.
ElderJoseph 1 year ago
@ElderJoseph The LDS church does NOT teach that the bible is corrupted and cannot be trusted. Joseph Smith said " he who reads it oftenest will like it best". The LDS faith realizes that there is truth and good teachings in mostly all religions. In fact, the LDS church has donated time and time again to people of different faiths. It is a cult practice in itself to try to destroy other religions, which is exactly what your agenda is. You have no respect for truth, but for deception.
lycanthropy2010 1 year ago
@lycanthropy2010 "The LDS church does NOT teach that the bible is corrupted and cannot be trusted."
Of course it does. It doesn't say so publicly but privately thats what it teaches.
1 Nephi 13:24 - ......"after the book hath gone forth through the hands of the great and abominable church, that there are many plain and precious things taken away from the book,"
Joseph Smith made many alterations to the bible and the church calls calls it the JST translation.
ElderJoseph 1 year ago