@Pix3lJP by the time you would achieve such mastery - you wouldnt even want to participate in any street fighting. you would become a deeper spirituial person.
"Hmm i wonder if those bjj guys will realise where the art of bjj came from?" Duhhhhh, of course they know you dumbass. Why are you making it sound like bjj people disregard the art of Judo? They even name the hold "Kimura" out of respect for the grand master himself. go do your homework son
@FedorKing First of all that's Tai Otoshi, not O-soto Gari. For someone so arrogant about their art, you would think you would know the name of the techniques. Secondly, most "bjj guys" do realize where the art came from and pay respect where it's due. Unlike yourself, of course.
@kifn2 That's not tai otoshi. Tai Otoshi requires planting the tripping foot on the ground, then "popping" it straight to create a fulcrum (or pivot point) that, when added to an already unbalanced opponent, greatly multiplies force. You can clearly see that Kimura's foot is not on the ground, nor does he "pop" his leg straight. That's harai goshi or sweeping hip throw.
@BloodofPatriots Although I do agree with your observation, I think the throw can be mistaken for O-Soto-Gari, as Gracie twists his body, and looks like the perfect position for the throw I just mentioned.
@hollandkaas You may be right. I stopped the video right when Kimura is hooking Gracie's leg and Kimura isn't pulling on Gracie's upper body as he should if it's Harai Goshi (to create kuzushi for the sweep) -- he's pushing Gracie's upper body away, which is textbook O-Soto-Gari.
@BloodofPatriots I would also like to add, that the age of the video, and the almost ancient frame rate, which makes it really fast, also makes it look hilarious, when he falls. :)
I don't pay the Gracies you idiot, do you think they have a gracie in every city? I did tap a Judo blackbelt, but then again you've never competed so why bring it up to you. Your so vulgar its strange and I wouldn't doubt that you've been molested by your dad or something you speak like trash. Munoz didn't "counter" he escaped, there's a difference but "YOU DON'T TRAIN"..I'm not reduced to bragging on the internet, grapplers quest, naga, ibjjf does that for me :)
The gracie's obviously didn't invent ground fighting, but Gracies brought it to another level . Ground fighting wasn't ever "invented" humans have been "ground fighting" since we were put on this Earth but the same as Samuel Colt invented the first revolver, humans have since made revolvers with a much higher efficiency. You don't train so you don't have the right to comment. You must be younger than 18 theres no need to argue your done fool
In a one on one fight?! Well, this video shows a one on one fight and it also show's Gracie being dominated by Kimura. I've practiced Ju-Jitsu for 23 years, I'm 28 and I can assure you that Judo, which derives from Ju-Jitsu, is equal to and certainly in no way inferior to BJJ.... Besides, it's down to the fighter, not the style he uses that really determines success...
Boom, outside leg trip, bang pass to side control before Helio knew WTF was up... LOL and they reckon Helio would have had a chance if Kimura was in his same weight class and not "80 pounds heavier"... HAHA, fucking arrogant gracies. Kimura was probably 10 pounds heavier if that...
As someone who practices BJJ and often has a 40-50 pound weight advantage and disadvantage its easy to for the smaller opponent to get thrown around especially if its someone as strong as Kimura was. Find some pics of him, dude was ripped and you can't argue that Helio was NOT very strong at all. Obviously we'll never know how the fight would go if they were the same weight but he did pretty good for being smaller and weaker.
yes there aren't any weight classes in the street, but Helio at 140 put up a valient effort and showed courage beyond the bounds of your appreciation. Kimura announced if Helio lasted 3 minutes he should be declared the winner, He lasted 13 minutes so in terms of honor of word he is no Loser even if he didn't win. I don't even like the Gracies too much, but to say what Helio did was anything less than an expression of man's ability to challenge goals others couldn't reach is foolish
@ImpassableGuardJJ And you know the bounds of my appreciation how? In the end, regardless of how valiant his efforts were, he lost. Putts either go in or they don't, a grenade either kills you or it does not, a woman is either pregnant or not.
The bounds of your appreciation is implied. Black and White views of "Win / Lose" is exactly what proves my point. There's more then just Win or Lose, but I doubt you've competed, I just got 2nd in the GQ Nationals in BJJ, but i had 3 awesome fights and that certainly counts for something, but how could I expect you to understand since you see with your eyes, but don't experience with your soul.
@ImpassableGuardJJ Amazing that you think you see so much of another in a few hundred words. As wide and deep as a personality is, you believe you have summed me up to the regard that your words imply? Son, do you know you are 18 years old? Do you know your brain is not fully formed and your thought processes and matters of judgement have further development yet? I could not care less about BJJ, just another sport with rules. In your vast experience, know what ijo means? Look it up, it applies.
Obviously at 18 your brain isn't finished developing, but it's developed enough to realize you didn't appreciate what Helio's fight expressed. You've stated you don't care about BJJ, not surprising your also viewing Martial Arts as "just another sport with rules", it doesn't stray to far away from my statements on what your words imply. Regardless, there isn't any need to continue the conversation.
@77paulinho You're an idiot. Judo has submissions. As a matter of fact, they're the same submissions you have just with their original Japanese names. And I didn't write that BJJ doesn't teach throws, I wrote that BJJ teaches only the most basic of throws. What BJJ'ers don't learn is kuzushi and "rooting". Throws in the street are not just damaging, but deadly. I can pop your skull on the street with a kata garuma, kid. Hard to pull an armbar when your brain is leaking out of your cranium.
@13expose13 Kosen Judokas have been pulling guard for over a hundred years, gracie asslicker. Helio pulled guard on Kimura (Judoka) and Kimura snapped his arm like a twig. Royce pulled guard on Yoshida (Judoka) and Yoshida put him to sleep. Royler pulled guard on Sakuraba (Catch-wrestling) and Sakuraba used Kimura's reverse ude garame to force Royler to tap. Sakuraba used the same move to destroy Renzo's elbow. Pull guard, you one-trick pony, judokas and wrestlers don't have a problem with it.
@BloodofPatriots Mate, you need to go outside. Put your effort into training instead of trolling on youtube videos.
(Then one day you might be able to beat that guy from the BJJ academy down the road that fucked you up and made you so dirty on BJJ. But probably not.)
@13expose13 Mate? What are you, some kind of faggot? You must be with your tongue so far up gracie ass. I give you facts and history, you run away to hide behind some lame attempt at insult. I've been in groundfights with you silly little gracie worshippers. You think you invented pulling guard? You think you invented the arm bar? You think you invented newaza? Cute. Now go wipe gracie's ass smell off your face, then visit a library and read about Prof. Kano and Maeda.
@13expose13 Just keep your face buried in between the gracies' asscheeks, kid. Keep licking up the shit they feed you. They invented nothing, just stole what Maeda taught them. Don't be surprised when you tangle with a judoka and he snaps your weak arm like a twig, just as Kimura snapped Helio's arm.
@13expose13 You don't train. You lick gracie ass. Don't be surprised when you get your weak little arms snapped like twigs when you piss off the wrong judoka, kid.
@BloodofPatriots LOL JUDO? you kidding me? a 6 month new blue belt can beat a black belt in judo now as judo rarely evolves and most judokas's are shit once they hit the ground against anyone decent off of their back. You ain't snapping anyone's arm who is decent at jits. keep dreaming.
@BloodofPatriots take it from a guy who has won countless advanced tournaments off his back, i would fuckin destroy you and your attempts to hold onto history even if you were 100 pounds heavier than me with your ignorance to the evolution of grappling
@patfiacco What evolution? Name a single technique in Gracie "judo" that didn't exist in Kano's original Kano Jiu-Jitsu (Judo). Go ahead, name just one that the Gracies invented. Even Eddie Bravo admits to stealing his "rubber guard" from Judo newaza. As for ignorance, you should look in the mirror, kid. You seem to think there's only one kind of judo and that it's Olympic judo that focuses on tachiwaza. What makes you think you could even get me to the ground anyway? Ever hear of "rooting"?
@SkemeKOS It's a rip-off of Judo newaza. Maeda never learned jujitsu, only judo; therefore, he could only have taught the Gracies Judo. Because of their wussy bodies, they decided to focus only on newaza. The Kosen judokas focused on newaza, not because they were weak, but because it's the fastest way to learn enough self-defense to nullify an opponent's size advantage. BJJ's abandoning of stand-up fighting is now a weakness since everyone's learned to stop their newaza.
OH YES!!!!! You have certainly proven the non-effectiveness of Jiu-Jitsu, I see I see Professor, Wussy Bodies = "cowardly ground work".. Hmmm next you should try challenging the Theories of Relativity, oh and I never knew that Jiu-Jitsu is just ripped of Judo,, hmm explains why the Japanese sell bootlegs by BJJ academies, to get us back for bootlegging their "Judo".. Professor u have certainly provided quite the case against Jiu Jitsu effectivness and principle
@ImpassableGuardJJ BJJ is "basically just judo" and not even all of it, just the newaza. Do you deny that Jigoro Kano modernized tradional Japanese ju-jitsu in 1881 and his students defeated the old style at the Tokyo Police Challenge in 1886? Do you deny that Maeda never studied traditiona ju-jitsu, only Judo at the Kodokan? Do you deny that Maeda taught the Gracies Judo, not ju-jitsu? The only thing the Gracies did was focus on newaza and ditch Kano's names for techniques to spic names.
If u came by my gym I'd show u how more efficient Jiu-Jitsu is than Judo.Professor ass face, it's not "basically just judo"your simplifying the art to the point of saying "wrestling and Jiu-Jitsu are the same because u grab people". "Spic Names" a term used by people I dn't continue talking with."The only thing the Gracies did" is a statement that puts you in a position to claim a revolutionary-martial art family's impact, Professor assface hav failed to give them due credit
@ImpassableGuardJJ I noticed how you didn't attempt to deny any of the historical facts I cited above, instead you snapped because the truth fills your vagina with sand. Wrestlers are decimated BJJ'ers by stacking them up in the guard, then punching them in the face until they cry all the way back to fake-ass gyms like yours. Wrestlers are dangerous because of their techniques that date all the back to the ancient Olympics. Now that they know how to avoid submissions, they're destroying BJJ'ers.
Decimation by "stacking up in their guard".... You probably don't even know how to stack or it's mechanics yet you speak about it you fool. My gym's fake? Your quite the Keyboard warrior, but Reality is Reality and you would be torn to shreds in my gym. Also Wrestlers don't just learn how to avoid submissions, they learn Jiu-Jitsu. lol you think without JiuJitsu they could survive???? Jiu-Jitsu is the core of successful MMA , thats a Fact. History proves such bitch
@ImpassableGuardJJ Stacking is all about leverage, getting your hips underneath the guy on the bottom. Once that's accomplished, you can push his knees up to his face because your legs will have greater strength than his back muscles do to straighten out. You think it's rocket science? It's physics, you idiot. Yes, your gym is as fake as your guard is weak. Impassable? Ha. A wrestler doesn't need to pass your guard. Jon Jones or Mark Munoz would beat you to death from inside your weak guard.
Also you pathetic faggot, NO SUCCESSFUL MMA FIGHTER is without Jiu-Jitsu training, therefore Jiu-Jitsu is the core of MMA. LOL you probably approached Jiu-Jitsu and failed and so your insecurities lead you to simpler Wrestling.OH or maybe it's the racism? You want "American-Wrestling" over Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. You don't understand what the Guard is and if Jon Jones is the fighter who tells you what works and what doesn't in Jiu-Jitsu then your as blind as you are stupid
@ImpassableGuardJJ Ju-Jitsu WAS the core of successful MMA, miss sandy vagina, now it's wrestling and striking. GSP was crap after he earned his black belt in BJJ. It wasn't until he learned to wrestle at a world class level did he become champion. Look at Jon Jones destroying Shogun Rua or Rory MacDonald suplexing Nate Diaz like the prison bitch you were after you went to jail for stealing little boy's underwear. How is BJJ doing in MMA now? Jon Fitch was right: the close guard is DEAD.
I never went to prison you fool. Professor Ass-Face your objective isn't to push his knees to his face it's to clear his legs. Your also trying to avoid using unnecessary force like using your legs to stack when you want to "Pass" not sandwich your opponent. Fool I don't need you to tell me "it's not rocket science". Also I've only had my guard passed twice in over 35 Tournament fights you fucking faggot. Also Dumbass GSP didn't earn his black belt until around UFC 100
I train, I compete, until you do that then your comments are as worthless as a fat fuck like you trying to give advice to basketball players in the NBA. Your a fag and all you know is what you watch not experience. Blood of Patriots, Yea I'm sure plenty of those people you call "spics" fought for your rights to comment on shit you know nothing about. You couldn't last a minute in my world you fake motherfucker. Find me a champion who doesn't train Jiu-Jitsu, go fuck yourself
@ImpassableGuardJJ Go douche all that sand out of your vagina, crybaby. Then tell your mommy the man on the internet made you cry, perhaps she'll give you a cookie before putting you down for your nap, princess. BJJ is "basically just judo". Why don't you try finding a single spic-named technique in BJJ that isn't a rip-off of traditional Judo? I bet you think BJJ'ers invented pulling guard, don't you? Haha. Research Tsunetane Oda for newaza perfection, princess. Now go have a good cry.
Also I never said a Judoka-Wrestler I said "Judokas,Wrestlers " but didn't place a "," ...Nothing is a "Rip-Off" if it's more efficient you pussy. That's like saying anything made after the first firearms were invented is just a rip-off. Your arguing a losing battle peasant. Now go to your local BJJ gym and learn to play drums (tap tap tap) Professor Ass Face. You've failed to rebuttle properly to any of my points. Therefore conversation over, you lost.
@ImpassableGuardJJ So, you do admit writing "judoka wrestlers" but claim it was a mistake because you're too stupid to use a comma? Funny. A flintlock has only a trigger in common with a AA-12, everything else is innovation and improvement -- so your analogy is, like you, full of shit. Why don't you state some BJJ-invented techniques that were not invented in Judo first. Go ahead. Before you do, you really should look up Tsunetane Oda, a newaza master from the Kosen Judo tradition.
bass its as clear as day I didn't write "judoka-wrestlers" I wrote Judokas wrestlers as in the two,all Judokas and Wrestlers train BJJ otherwise they'd never be successful in MMA. Thats a fact, no arguing that. No, my analogy is not shit, a Colt Revolver has the same Base as every revolver after, but today's revolvers are much more efficient. As Judo's Newaza is to BJJ. Also 50/50 Guard, Hip-bbump Triangle, MArcelo-Garcia Grip(seatbelt) and Rubber Guard
@ImpassableGuardJJ What exactly did the gracies do that wasn't already being done by the Kosen judokas? The Kosen judokas were stomping the stand-up judo schools and Kano recognized their expertise. The only thing the gracies did was give stupid spic names to Japanese judo and ju-jitsu names. Kimura was a judoka, not a hold. He used a reverse ude garami to snap helio gracie's arm like a twig. The gracies are marketing whores -- not exactly a surprise for spics.
I didn't try to deny the historical facts because only a retard like yourself denies facts. You just claimed wrestlers to be more dangerous then Jiu-Jitsu fighters because you Professor Ass-Face are ignorant to Martial Arts or combat arts in general. The more you spoke the more I realized you certainly have no or little combat experience. I know who Kimura was you idiot, and Judoka's Wrestlers all train JiuJitsu in MMA LOL because if they don't they're basically shark bait
@ImpassableGuardJJ Jon Jones is more dangerous than any crybaby BJJ'er in his weight class -- he destroyed BJJ'ers Shogun Rua. Mark Munoz is eating BJJ'ers like Kendal Grove and Demian Maia for breakfast. Judokas study judo, wrestlers study freestyle or greco-roman wrestling. To call someone a "judoka wrestler" is like calling you a shemale. Oh, I guess that would be right. Now go douche the sand out of your vagina so you can be all clean and fresh the next time the gracie's fuck you.
LMFAO the Lightheavy weight division doesn't have many stand out BJJ fighters, Jon Jones beat Rua standing you idiot and Shogun wasn't vry successful at BJJ competiton so he's no1 to brag about. WHAT FIGHT DID YOU SEE THAT MUNOZ ATE MAIA?!?!? lol he won a split decision, but certainly didn't eat any1 you fool. Also Professor Ass-Face I made clear points and you failed to counter them. Your a failure, I've tapped a Judo blackbelt before too, cause they work terrible in guard
@ImpassableGuardJJ Maia was touted as the best BJJ'er Munoz ever faced, yet he successfully countered everything Maia tried to do. You didn't tap a judo blackbelt, he most likely rolled you onto your belly and then tapped your well-used ass just like the gracies do when they take your money every month for teaching you nothing but ripped-off judo newaza. Now go wipe your ass, it's leaking gracie sperm.
LMFAO BloodofPatriots goes "ever hear of rooting" lol He thinks if he reads up techniques on the internet he'll stop a takedown or a guard pull HAHAHAHHAHA I know what you mean, I've been competing for 2 1/2 years and I've never not placed 1st or 2nd at a tournament except once cause I jumped weight class and then fags on youtube try to argue. They're out of their minds.
@ImpassableGuardJJ You have no idea what rooting is, do you? It's a change in one's center of gravity that makes it damn near impossible to move someone. Rooting is part of kuzushi and stand-up techniques, which BJJ'ers all abandoned, instead pulling guard. Pulling guard was invented by Tsunetane Oda of the Kosen Judo tradition, you idiot. Now go wipe the gracie sperm leaking out of your ass. Reduced to bragging on the internet? How, well, very pussy of you, princess. Haha
YOU IDIOT OF COURSE I KNOW WHAT ROOTING IS BECAUSE I TRAIN!!! lol You make Rooting sound like the end all be all though, It would be impossible for ur untrained as to move someone while they're rooting, but not me. Naturally If I've grappled for 2 1/2 years I've had to root you fucking idiot, but you can certainly manipulate someone's center of gravity. It doesn't matter who "invented" guard pulling because humans probably did it before there was a name.
Also the way you root for judo or even prepare yourself for a throw, leaves you very weak for doubles and singles, your a fool, but it's like arguing with someone with assburgers when I comment you, Don't comment anymore you fucking illegal alien, yes I know the secret, you were formely an illegal alien and now you wage war on them lol you can comment further Im not replying. you have been served faggot
@ImpassableGuardJJ You don't even know what you're trying to discuss. Its as confusing to you as a damn apostrophe seems to be. Rooting is used when an opponent attacks the upper body, not when an opponent attacks the legs, you idiot gracie sperm swallower. A damn spic whore trying to call anyone else an illegal alien is laughable. I bet you're the worst of spics; you're one of those damn nigger spics.
@77paulinho BJJ'ers do not teach kuzushi or "rooting" nor do they teach anything but basic throws like ogoshi, etc. I've randori'd against BJJ'ers and they couldn't move me-even when they were bigger. On the other hand, I threw them around the mat like ragdolls, especially with my go-to throw, tai otoshi. You see, normally I'm a nice guy and I pull back in randori before I slam a guy's head into the ground, but with BJJ'ers, they need to be taught a lesson. Now go learn your nage waza, punk.
@1hqvpc You do realize that on the street, Kimura would have killed Helio, right? He threw him around like a ragdoll. Without the heavy padding of the mat to save him, Helio's head would have been split like a melon. That's something you gracie asslickers just don't understand about judo. Our throws are violent and cause serious damage in the real life situations. If you studied throws, princess, you'd know there's a point of the throw where a judoka can either pull back or increase the force.
@BloodofPatriots you do realize the gracies basically invented the ufc and Royce won the first three tournaments with NO WEIGHT CLASS and multiple fights a night
@manicl33t You do realize that the gracies have never entered a Kosen judo tournament? Why? Because Kosen judokas are just as newaza focused as they are, but they don't disrespect Kano or Judo by trying to call their style "kosen jiu-jitsu". As for the UFC, the participants were hand-picked by the gracies. Now go lick some more gracie ass.
@BloodofPatriots you do realize the gracies basically invented the ufc and Royce won the first three tournaments with NO WEIGHT CLASS and multiple fights a night. EAT A QUEEF.
@1hqvpc Rickson Gracie is not undefeated in the UFC. He won't even step into the UFC. You know why? Because that's the best of the best and he knows he'd get his ass handed to him just as Cro Cop did. Why didn't Rickson ever fight Sakuraba? Because he was scared of the Gracie Hunter. As for completely changing judo newaza, they did nothing of the kind. Look at the Kosen Judokas that took to newaza long before the gracies and tell me they do anything different. Call it Brazilian Newaza-Judo.
This for all of you guy yes most of Bjj blacks belts are laz yfighter they throw them into there guard and work from but then again Theres no Judo champions in mmayes judo is more agressive but if you but a all american wrestler against a judo black belt the wrestler would always just my opinion
@77paulinho Ever heard of Fedor Emeliankenko? He's a blackbelt in judo and won numerous titles and belts. Antonio Nogueira (Pride), Vitor Belfort (UFC), and Anderson Silva (UFC) are all BJJ'ers, but they also have black belts in judo. Now ask yourself why would they "waste" their time studying judo if BJJ was all you think they need? As for judo going toe-to-toe with GJJ, undefeated black belt Kim Dong-hyun used his judo to control GJJ'er Nate Diaz the entire fight at UFC 125.
@1hqvpc You can call a table a car, still doesn't make it a car. Gracie "jiu-jitsu" is just newaza-focused Kodokan Judo as taught to them by Mitsuyo Maeda. Out of respect for him and for Professor Kano, you should call it, at best, gracie judo, thereby respecting Kano, Maeda, and, if you must, the thief, helio gracie.
@77paulinho I am a BJJ practitioner and i'm slightly ashamed to be associated in that small way with you. Judo and BJJ are both effective in mma. The difference is BJJ is marketed better and is better understood by the average person. You clearly know nothing about either martial art. The one and only reason i choose BJJ over Judo is because i am a lazy fighter. I like to fight from the guard. Judo is far more agressive.
Adressing the description - I don't know of any Bjj guys who don't know where it came from. And i'd like to point out that the fight was only stopped because carlos was worried about his brother. Kimura was 80lbs heavier and a WORLD champion. He (kimura) considered Helio the winner just for surviving for 13 minutes, and said Helio probably would have won if he was heavier. After this match, Kimura invited Helio to teach with him. Helio deserves a bit more credit that you give him in my opiinion
@77paulinho Its hard to understand what you're trying to say because you obviously can't spell or write English, but I think your suggesting that bjj is more effective than judo. That was not case when Helio gracie fought Kimura or when Royce Gracie fought Yoshida.
@jackeenninja I've given my view on the Kimura fight. As for the yoshida fight. i think its fair to say that he was winning. but gracie wasn't unconcious and he didn't tap. Yoshida even said that was the case and he would give gracie a rematch. It would be silly of either of us to say that these fights prove anything. As i white belt i beat a Judo green belt on a few occasions (he was both heavier and stronger than me) but i've also been beaten by judo white belts... I hope you get my point.
@1hqvpc Of course judo and Gracie "judo" are not the same. The Gracies are obsessed with newaza and all but abandoned the throws. They weren't the first to do so, the Kosen Universities did it first. The Gracies are posers for calling what Maeda taught them "jiu jitsu". It's judo. Mitsuyo Maeda taught them judo (Kano Jiu Jitsu), not traditional jiu jitsu. Call it what it is: Gracie Newaza Judo.
@1hqvpc Try studying traditional, not sport, judo. You'll find it's brutally effective for the street. Half the stuff in traditional judo isn't allowed in sport judo. Sport judo is derived from traditional judo, not jiu jitsu. Judo was a major refinement of jiu jitsu. For the record, there is not such thing as "Gracie Jiu Jitsu". It's Gracie "Judo" -- look up Mitsuyo Maeda if you doubt that fact. Maeda, who taught the Gracies how to fight, never studied jiu jitsu. He was Kano's best judoka.
You're dumb, he fought Helio's student Santana to a 1-0-1. Kimura submitted Santana by Kimura in a grappling match and fought him to a 40 min draw in MMA.
@Jmillal So what? Sakuraba, a wrestler, defeated four Gracies by himself -- including breaking Royler's arm in a nasty Kimura. Royce even resorted to taking steroids for the rematch he was so humiliated by losing to a catch-wrestler. Sakuraba is known as the Gracie Hunter -- wonder why BJJ'er don't want to talk about him?
OK I'm tired of people saying jiu jitsu is useless, Gracie jiu jitsu was developed for the street.it has throws, and takedowns. so saying wrestling is more useful or judo why? wrestling take downs and holds. judo throws holds and some submissions. jiu jitsu takedowns, throws, holds, and submissions. and saying i know Jiu Jitsu, doesn't mean i cant punch. and for the record, if you actually train in it, you haveto learn to fight multiple opponents to get higher ranking belts, so useless argument.
@martialartguyxxx and if i'm on the ground, by the time your freind kicks me in the head, i already broke your arm, so who got worse?
also i would like to see a Thia fighter fight multiple opponents. different style, same fate. if Mastato fought 3 or 4 dudes, you know what would happen? theyd rush him, and beat the shit out of him.
"i don't lose because I know Jiu Jitsu, I lose because I got jumped by a couple of bitches who cant fight fair" its about the fighter not the style.
@martialartguyxxx dead on dude.. muay thai, judo, jiu jitsu, boxing.. it doesnt matter.. they will all get fucked up on the street if you have multiple attackers with any goddam sense.. what happens when a thai fighter gets knocked to the ground by multiple opponents? LOL.. owned... same for jiu jitsu.. owned.. i practice jiu jitsu and love the sport but to bash any of these is rediculous.. you have to know them all..
@martialartguyxxx Depends how hard you get kicked in the head I guess, if you get brain damage from that yours is a lot worse, remember they won't always stop at one kick or when your knocked unconscious, especially if you just broke his mates arm. There is no "fair" on the street. Doesn't matter who you are if your outnumbered the odds are against you
@martialartguyxxx you obviously train in BJJ, so you'll know the trows in BJJ come from judo. You'll also know that very little time is given over to practicing throws compared to the grappling/ground fighting in BJJ. In fact, in some BJJ clubs the throws are never taught. and learning to throw takes time as does any martial art. Ideally, a person should learn judo, bjj and how to strike. But on the street I'd rather be able to strike or throw than grapple for obvious reasons.
@jackeenninja i make sure to train in throws, as i am very tall and hate to shoot. right now i only do BJJ through an MMA program. but soon sign up for karate, BJJ, kickboxing, and Judo. i really do love judo throws, and think it will complete my game, as BJJ beats judo in submissions, Judo beats BJJ in throws. what do you get if you put them together? I'll tell you, a grappling bad ass.
I think everyone should learn both Judo and BJJ. BJJ obviously is more ground oriented and yes more technical and slower paced. Judo is obviously more takedown oriented and as much as Judoka don't want to admit, relies heavily on size and strength and is more aggressive. These two go hand in hand really though. It's better imo to attempt take someone down and fail than to just pull guard. You can always pull guard after a failed attempt at a takedown or if you get taken down.
@dudesrock2 unless you live in Japan where daito ryu jyuujitsu or aki jyuujitsu is taught, you are not going to get true original jiujitsu training. even then Judo advanced on the stand up or tachi waza and BJJ advanced on the ground aspect or ne waza. boku wa nihongo o hanashimasu. I'm currently living in Japan and learning Japanese and Japanese culture and even the Japanese fighters here are moving away from Judo and Daito Ryu to BJJ. Nice try at the one-up though.
I have only started BJJ recently, but I have gotten into plenty of street fights before and all I knew was a little boxing and some wrestling, I did fine. one guy tried kicking me and i just did a double leg and started smashing his face. now i could choke him out or brake his arm or something. if you cant fight, no martial art is going to help you.
@kerria181 mine too people tap before the crank i had a dude yall TAAAAP at the top of his lungs before i put the pressure on :D straight from osoto into kesa then juji
Put credit where it is due. Kosen Judo = Origin of BJJ. Rickson said in his book that the japanese held back on teaching and taught only the basics because they were non-japanese and thus had to learn and evolve the art on their own. Helio did impove what he learned, but he did not invent it.
In a street fight that's when you want the arm bar in paticular. Not for a submission to break the fuckers arm. then you move on to the next person your fighting. If you get jumped you use any and all means to make them regret that decision. your not going to drop into a full fighting stance but your not going to swing wild either.
I am just glad Gracie admitted his short comings and made no excuses. ( I am a Judo guy but I have great respect for BJJ ). It should be remembered though they threw the towel and Gracie DID NOT tap. 2 points cancel each other out.
1. On anything resembling a normal surface, Kimura would have KO'd with a throw.
2. Due to the discrepancy in age & weight KIMURA said if it goes past 3 min. Gracie WINS.
It was the shock off the small guy doing so well from the bottum which the Japanese had not developed and Helio did being the smallest of all his brothers, which was the signifigance of this match, but you probly already know this, Im just sayin
In the street, you throw a guy on to concrete, he is finished. Or do you go to the ground to submit or choke while his buddy is kicking you in the face. So in a fight on the street, which is better, judo throws or BJJ ground fighting or for that matter, good strikes? BJJ is very limited outside a ring.
Firstly, on the street, people wear clothes which is every bit as good as a GI. Secondly, you don't need a Gi to throw a person, it happens in mma fights all the time. Thirdly, japanese ju jujitsu was developed for the battlefield where nobody wore a Gi. All Japanese martial arts with throws in them stem from ju ju jutsiu, be it judo, aikido or ninjutsu. Finally, it is much easier to throw someone that is throwing punches and stand high, much harder in a tournament when someone is squatting low
@jackeenninja you had a good comment except the part "nobody wore a gi on the battlefield". White is the traditional funeral color in Japan. All Samurai wore a white gi under their armor to symbolize they were willing to die on the battlefield already dressed in the clothing they would wear to be cremated in. Even if Samurai were to severely injure an enemy with a throw, they would have surely continued with a joint break or a fatal choke on the ground if they had lost their katana.
@jackeenninja yea this is why Ju-Jutsu is more throw orientated because in the time of feudal japan samurai would use juj-jutsu if unarmed samurai would often be armoured were striking metal was pretty pointless so throws and breakks were more appropreate
Well, it's different alright ( of course punches at you is another matter as well. Judo man can learn to throw without a gi IF HE TRIES. There are no gi throws in mma all the time. I can tell you from first hand experience, it's not always bad.
As a young man in college and grad school I worked as a bouncer and did some "stand beside" duties for local bail bondsmen. I looked forward to cold weather, with a heavy winter coat to grab, I could LAUNCH some folks.
You should refer to UFC 1,2,3,4,5 . buddy IS wearing a GI while somebody is throwing punches. plus he is out weighed in some cases by almost 100 pounds. Gracie did a good job back in the day.....
Happens in mma fights all the time? are you watching the same MMA fights im watching? I can watch 10-15 fights in a row without seeing someone getting thrown and when you do its extremely sloppy it anit no Ippon Seoinage or something that you see in Judo tournaments, 1v1 on the street BJJ is better than judo
go to brazil and train BJJ for the street it's different than all the gyms around the world, at the end off the day theres a million possibilitys in a fight, guys in Brasil that know there gonna fight someone thats a Judo guy or Bjj guy (say in a bar situation) will get their mates to smash bottles all over the ground when the fight starts so no one wants to be down there
but what you are talking about is a specific situation in which you are basiclly representing as the steet fight' norm'. which isn t ture . if you get jumped by 5 dudes ANY type of offensive striking is pretty much rendered useless.. it all depends on the situation and on the person regardless of weather or not he knows BJJ. Boxing....etc who in their right mind is gonna start trying to give a dude an arm bar after five of his buddies swore they wouldn t jump in......??
@jackeenninja well there are throws in BJJ as well... personally i like Judo foot sweeps, no one expects them, they're fast and effective, sweep one guy move quickly onto the next, throw him and run. The best defence is to run, but if you're like me i dont like that... if someone is threatening me or trying to hurt me i show them there and then not to fuck with me
@jackeenninja Not really. What happens in a fight where he keeps getting up. Saying "Hes done if you throw him onto concrete" ISnt a very 100% statement. Put him in an armbar and break the arm THEN hes done THEN you can worry about the buddy
@jackeenninja If you watch Karo Parisyan you see an awesome judoka doing well in mma. he did as well as he did because he adapted it to the ocatagon. He also added strikes which is why he was often able to throw people because he made them stand upright. Ever notice that in freestyle wrestling tournaments you don't see a lot of judo throws? That's because most of your judo throws work best when you opponent is standing up. So on the street you best be able to modify those judo throws.
@jackeenninja or his buddy comes up and kicks you in the balls while your trying to throw the other person... okay lets do a run down shall we.. biting, choking, eye gouging, fish hooks, grabbing someones nuts and squeezing as hard as you can... not too pretty but its effective.. how bout weapons? like a gun.. at a distance you cant reach it... truth is none of this shit is effective on the street unless your opponents fight fair.. and according to you they dont since they jump you
@jackeenninja In a fight on the street, the best thing is to either run faster, or have a knife. Or as you say, not be outnumbered
Japanese jiu jitsu couldn't have been much use in battle either, where infantry fought with spears and armored samurai with swords on horseback. And archers. Not to mention firearms, at least since Sekigahara.
It's a mistake to call hand-to-hand methods "martial arts." War is done with weapons. It should be "fighting arts."
@kozmon0t Jiu Jitsu was absolutely critical in battle. With samurai wearing armor, it was useless to strike, so, absent swords, a kill was best achieved by throwing your opponent violently to the ground, stunning him enough to draw your knife or short sword and then killing him by slicing his throat. You should study more history of feudal Japan.
@BloodofPatriots If you think there was any significant amount of "absent swords" going on in Japanese battles, you shouldn't talk about studying more history.
If you're in a battle in feudal Japan with nothing but a knife, you're a serious fuckup and your first move should be to get a weapon, not tackle a guy with a sword or spear.
@kozmon0t Thanks for proving you know nothing of history or warfare. Samurai carried multiple edged weapons, not just the katana and wakizashi, but also the tanto (knife). During battle, swords are lost and jiu-jitsu was created to take-down an armed attacker where he could be finished with a choke or knife. The same thing for modern warfare. Why do you think US Marines are issued ka-bars and train in MCMAP? Why are Stryker brigades being issued tomahawks along with their M-4s? duh.
@kozmon0t You have no idea how samurai fought battles do you? It was all melee -- why do you think they wore banners on themselves? So their own guys wouldn't kill them. It was up close and personal slaughter. Weapons are lost, firearms misfire, horses die, and archers run out of arrows. Jiu jitsu served the same purpose for the samurai as MCMAP does for the Marines today or pankration training did for the ancient Greeks -- it's the last means to defend yourself in battle.
Helio also said Kimura had a choke on him that would have finished him early in the fight, but he let up to check if he was ok.
Bottom line is this,
Kimura>Gracies
It's nothing new that the Gracies like to mouth off about BJJ (see Hughes vs Gracie) and pretend they had a moral victory.
But as far as if this determines a better art, that's hard due to competition rules. Judo throw=win. BJJ=going to the ground means we just started. So unless your Ippon KO's, its all newaza (BJJ) time.
Something about this fight that I think ought to be addressed too is that Kimura was also an awesome ground guy. I think Nobuyuki Sato commented on this being kind of a Hokkaido tradition (I could be wrong about the locale). I am not making excuses, but both Helio and Kimura were good on the mat.. And that isn't necessarily the case across the board for Judoka. In any event all this fight really proves is that Kimura was the better man that night..
Man, that dude outweighted Helio bigtime. Just because Helio was really good at what he did, people now expect him to beat up guys even if they are the best at their discipline, and outweight him. Hes not superman or anything.
Even when Matt Hughes grappled Tito Ortiz he got beaten. Weight does matter is technique is similar.
in the book "my judo" writen by Kimura, you can find the official weights from both, helio, and Kimura, and kimura was only 17 lb (8 kg) over helio. but the gracies are a bunch of liars that can't accept defeat, so they told everybody that Kimura was way too big for helio. And also Kimura denies that he invited helio to teach ion japan, That was rickson's bullshit. Another fucking gracie lie for making money.
i never said judo lies you said bjj lies, and i said bjj beats judo because it lies...exibit A. national judoka world level tapped by a brazilian jujitsu blue belt in the british open, also a bj penn tapped numerous judokas on a video on youtube go watch it.
never did i say bjj lies, i just said the gracies themselves lied when they described the fight. they always make an excuse for there losses. im not doubting there skill though. and isnt bj penn known as a bjj prodigy anyway lol. besides all these other people you bring up are totally irrelevant. im speaking on these 2 greats going at it in the vid. and as you've seen the judoka won
Dude... Helio was a judo student. BJJ is just the ground work of Judo. It's all marketing. BJJ does not have even 1 technique that is exclusive. They tell everyone they evolved it and made the art better but the truth is not 1 technique was their creation. The media is brainwashing people into thinking judo is all standup... but the truth is only the competition rules are different. All of the BJJ ground work is Judo and learned at judo clubs.
yet a judoka cannot fight effectively off his back such as gardner vs yoshida an olympic champion judoka, who could not submit a pure wrestler with basically no other skills in a ground battle but roger gracie against gardner and no doubt he would have tapped gardner, thus proving the effectiveness and the difference from gracie jiu jitsu and judo, i have very rarely seen a judoka do anything other than an armbar, i have seen a blue belt bjj tap a national judo champ, bjj is far superior.
You can't use one example of a fight and make it a rule. The only difference is in the competition rules with Judo. Thats it. Nothing else. BJJ is not superior to anything. The largest difference is always the fighter, not necessarily the style. The gracies have lied about their records and training for years. The only thing they are better at is marketing.
I think they have both become better at different things. When I was just a BJJ blue belt, I could beat, with relative ease champion black belt Judoka when the fight hit the mat. Though on the feet, I had alot more trouble with almost any rank of Judoka especially by Judo rules. This will I think change. Because knowing the Judo, only makes the BJJ stronger, and vice versa. They are I think flip sides of the same coin.
With relative ease beat CHAMPION black belt judoka? Being an Olympic sport Judo is governed therefore a champion judoka will be well known... please inform me of which champion Judoka you beat with ease. For the record the guards you mentioned are not exclusive to BJJ and were around before the gracies even started martial arts.
You will note I said once the fight hit the mat, that is in newaza mode. I trained Judo at a competition school, and hammered most of their black belts on the ground. The only guy who ever gave me much a run was the head instructor of the school, who was very good on the mat. He pinned me on a few occasions typically resulting from a throw in which landed in a good position, but never ever submitted me, or when we started in newaza ever even passed my guard. I got thrown alot.
My competition at the school were all American Judoka, and I have no real interest in naming names, largely because I didn't pay much attention to their names. I was only told later about their tournament accolades. I have no dog in this fight. All I am saying is that the sophistication of the BJJ ground game is greater than that of Judo. Just as the sophistication of the throwing Judo is more sophisticated than that of BJJ. I was thrown with ease by a 60 year old for instance.
nor in all my judo training have I ever seen spider or x-guards taught, or mentioned. Nor have I seen either in any book on Judo, and I have more than my fair share of such books. And any time I stood up in person's guard at Judo, the match would be called to a halt, and we would start again.
Spider guard (for example) may not be utilized in Judo as much because of competition rules... however it is still Judo. In karate they teach groin shots and eye gouging. Although NOT permitted in tournaments it is still Karate. The misunderstanding here is that you think I'm knocking BJJ.... I'm not. But it is Judo. They may get better at ground work (due to training time) but it is Judo. No guard or armbar or choke was ever invented by the gracies, nor has any set up to those techniques.
Sorry, while these techniques may exist in Judo, they were reinvented by the BJJ offshoot fo Judo because the BJJers didn't go to the original Judo to find said techniques, in large part because no one teaches them in Judo schools, here or abroad. I would venture to say that Kano invented nothing either. He simply took a systems approach to the art of Japanese Jujitsu. Part of that made it to Brazil where it evolved.
Kano didn't invent any moves... i agree. It was a collection of the best of JJ. Maeda who taught the Gracies however was never trained in traditional JJ... Just Judo. Actually at the time that he taught Judo to the Gracies it was still a controversy in Japan and was being referred to as Judo and Kano JJ. I actually think the Gracies were either very smart or lucky because of marketing and media they have built an empire.
I actually think that Kano's other great contribution to both Judo and BJJ would be randori, for without it martial arts mysticism erupts. Look at Aikido for instance. The training method is one of the huge keys to the success of both BJJ and Judo
In my own research though, the Judo that looks most similar to modern BJJ is what some people refer to as Kosen Judo. Still I haven't seen an x guard, or a spider guard, but I do see a lot of other similarities.
this is osoto gari... he just pulls him like he's going to do harai goshi.. trust me.
smokeNTOUCH 1 month ago
@FedorKing We do recognize it. Stop trying to sound superior and like you had a hand in either of styles creation.
GETxTOUGHx 5 months ago
i think we can all agree that if you have a Judo black belt and a BJJ black belt you are a dangerous man :D
Pix3lJP 5 months ago 9
@Pix3lJP by the time you would achieve such mastery - you wouldnt even want to participate in any street fighting. you would become a deeper spirituial person.
peterscoop 1 month ago
"Hmm i wonder if those bjj guys will realise where the art of bjj came from?" Duhhhhh, of course they know you dumbass. Why are you making it sound like bjj people disregard the art of Judo? They even name the hold "Kimura" out of respect for the grand master himself. go do your homework son
dudeinthesea 5 months ago
@FedorKing First of all that's Tai Otoshi, not O-soto Gari. For someone so arrogant about their art, you would think you would know the name of the techniques. Secondly, most "bjj guys" do realize where the art came from and pay respect where it's due. Unlike yourself, of course.
kifn2 7 months ago
@kifn2 actually i would not called that even tai otoshi, tai otoshi you plant your feet down, he went almost for a harai goshi
f9hunter 6 months ago
@f9hunter Good point. Harai Goshi it is.
kifn2 6 months ago
@kifn2 i wonder why the narrator says o-soto gari then. "ousoto gari kara newaza e"
tensai1312 6 months ago
@kifn2 That's not tai otoshi. Tai Otoshi requires planting the tripping foot on the ground, then "popping" it straight to create a fulcrum (or pivot point) that, when added to an already unbalanced opponent, greatly multiplies force. You can clearly see that Kimura's foot is not on the ground, nor does he "pop" his leg straight. That's harai goshi or sweeping hip throw.
BloodofPatriots 6 months ago
@BloodofPatriots Although I do agree with your observation, I think the throw can be mistaken for O-Soto-Gari, as Gracie twists his body, and looks like the perfect position for the throw I just mentioned.
hollandkaas 4 months ago
@hollandkaas You may be right. I stopped the video right when Kimura is hooking Gracie's leg and Kimura isn't pulling on Gracie's upper body as he should if it's Harai Goshi (to create kuzushi for the sweep) -- he's pushing Gracie's upper body away, which is textbook O-Soto-Gari.
Good eye.
BloodofPatriots 4 months ago
@BloodofPatriots I would also like to add, that the age of the video, and the almost ancient frame rate, which makes it really fast, also makes it look hilarious, when he falls. :)
hollandkaas 4 months ago
I don't pay the Gracies you idiot, do you think they have a gracie in every city? I did tap a Judo blackbelt, but then again you've never competed so why bring it up to you. Your so vulgar its strange and I wouldn't doubt that you've been molested by your dad or something you speak like trash. Munoz didn't "counter" he escaped, there's a difference but "YOU DON'T TRAIN"..I'm not reduced to bragging on the internet, grapplers quest, naga, ibjjf does that for me :)
ImpassableGuardJJ 7 months ago
The gracie's obviously didn't invent ground fighting, but Gracies brought it to another level . Ground fighting wasn't ever "invented" humans have been "ground fighting" since we were put on this Earth but the same as Samuel Colt invented the first revolver, humans have since made revolvers with a much higher efficiency. You don't train so you don't have the right to comment. You must be younger than 18 theres no need to argue your done fool
ImpassableGuardJJ 7 months ago
BJJ IS THE BEST STILLE ... WHEN WE STARTED TO FIGHT MMA (VALE TUDO) THE MOVIES WASN`T INVENTED ON THAT DAYS !!! KEEP WORKING BOYS >>>
kapetepeck 7 months ago
he bitch slapped gracie
bnsaints 8 months ago
In a one on one fight?! Well, this video shows a one on one fight and it also show's Gracie being dominated by Kimura. I've practiced Ju-Jitsu for 23 years, I'm 28 and I can assure you that Judo, which derives from Ju-Jitsu, is equal to and certainly in no way inferior to BJJ.... Besides, it's down to the fighter, not the style he uses that really determines success...
JayeSwiss 8 months ago
@JayeSwiss+1
rezwanborja 7 months ago
@JayeSwiss The type of Jujitsu that Judo derived from is in no way related to BJJ, that often gets over looked.
ElZappata 7 months ago
ina one on one fight i believe bjj is better than judo.
BUT in the street if you pull guard your getting your head kicked in.
i personal believe being decent at throws and great at striking is the best way to be safe on the street
scottmcconnellMMA 8 months ago
Boom, outside leg trip, bang pass to side control before Helio knew WTF was up... LOL and they reckon Helio would have had a chance if Kimura was in his same weight class and not "80 pounds heavier"... HAHA, fucking arrogant gracies. Kimura was probably 10 pounds heavier if that...
unregisturd 9 months ago
@unregisturd Helio Gracie, 140 lbs
Masahiko Kimura, 187 lbs
As someone who practices BJJ and often has a 40-50 pound weight advantage and disadvantage its easy to for the smaller opponent to get thrown around especially if its someone as strong as Kimura was. Find some pics of him, dude was ripped and you can't argue that Helio was NOT very strong at all. Obviously we'll never know how the fight would go if they were the same weight but he did pretty good for being smaller and weaker.
DiamondDave1022 9 months ago
@DiamondDave1022 No weight classes in the street, he got his ass handed to him, it works that way.
IEKUKATAKA 8 months ago
@IEKUKATAKA
yes there aren't any weight classes in the street, but Helio at 140 put up a valient effort and showed courage beyond the bounds of your appreciation. Kimura announced if Helio lasted 3 minutes he should be declared the winner, He lasted 13 minutes so in terms of honor of word he is no Loser even if he didn't win. I don't even like the Gracies too much, but to say what Helio did was anything less than an expression of man's ability to challenge goals others couldn't reach is foolish
ImpassableGuardJJ 7 months ago
@ImpassableGuardJJ And you know the bounds of my appreciation how? In the end, regardless of how valiant his efforts were, he lost. Putts either go in or they don't, a grenade either kills you or it does not, a woman is either pregnant or not.
IEKUKATAKA 7 months ago
@IEKUKATAKA
The bounds of your appreciation is implied. Black and White views of "Win / Lose" is exactly what proves my point. There's more then just Win or Lose, but I doubt you've competed, I just got 2nd in the GQ Nationals in BJJ, but i had 3 awesome fights and that certainly counts for something, but how could I expect you to understand since you see with your eyes, but don't experience with your soul.
ImpassableGuardJJ 7 months ago
@ImpassableGuardJJ Amazing that you think you see so much of another in a few hundred words. As wide and deep as a personality is, you believe you have summed me up to the regard that your words imply? Son, do you know you are 18 years old? Do you know your brain is not fully formed and your thought processes and matters of judgement have further development yet? I could not care less about BJJ, just another sport with rules. In your vast experience, know what ijo means? Look it up, it applies.
IEKUKATAKA 7 months ago
@IEKUKATAKA
Obviously at 18 your brain isn't finished developing, but it's developed enough to realize you didn't appreciate what Helio's fight expressed. You've stated you don't care about BJJ, not surprising your also viewing Martial Arts as "just another sport with rules", it doesn't stray to far away from my statements on what your words imply. Regardless, there isn't any need to continue the conversation.
ImpassableGuardJJ 7 months ago
so who is the martial artist and who is the punk? idk. i just stick with combat warfare
redwolf19871 9 months ago
i eat rice!!
RogerSeegren 9 months ago
i honestly think Judo is more effective than them thieves that stole a style and called it BJJ.
romansoldierofhonor 10 months ago
@romansoldierofhonor You keep living that dream buddy... and I'll keep tapping people out.
13expose13 10 months ago
@77paulinho You're an idiot. Judo has submissions. As a matter of fact, they're the same submissions you have just with their original Japanese names. And I didn't write that BJJ doesn't teach throws, I wrote that BJJ teaches only the most basic of throws. What BJJ'ers don't learn is kuzushi and "rooting". Throws in the street are not just damaging, but deadly. I can pop your skull on the street with a kata garuma, kid. Hard to pull an armbar when your brain is leaking out of your cranium.
BloodofPatriots 10 months ago
@BloodofPatriots And if I pull guard? Then your fucked aren't ya.
13expose13 10 months ago
@13expose13 Kosen Judokas have been pulling guard for over a hundred years, gracie asslicker. Helio pulled guard on Kimura (Judoka) and Kimura snapped his arm like a twig. Royce pulled guard on Yoshida (Judoka) and Yoshida put him to sleep. Royler pulled guard on Sakuraba (Catch-wrestling) and Sakuraba used Kimura's reverse ude garame to force Royler to tap. Sakuraba used the same move to destroy Renzo's elbow. Pull guard, you one-trick pony, judokas and wrestlers don't have a problem with it.
BloodofPatriots 10 months ago
@BloodofPatriots Mate, you need to go outside. Put your effort into training instead of trolling on youtube videos.
(Then one day you might be able to beat that guy from the BJJ academy down the road that fucked you up and made you so dirty on BJJ. But probably not.)
13expose13 10 months ago
@13expose13 Mate? What are you, some kind of faggot? You must be with your tongue so far up gracie ass. I give you facts and history, you run away to hide behind some lame attempt at insult. I've been in groundfights with you silly little gracie worshippers. You think you invented pulling guard? You think you invented the arm bar? You think you invented newaza? Cute. Now go wipe gracie's ass smell off your face, then visit a library and read about Prof. Kano and Maeda.
BloodofPatriots 10 months ago
@BloodofPatriots You got some issues buddy. Good luck with that>
13expose13 10 months ago
@13expose13 Just keep your face buried in between the gracies' asscheeks, kid. Keep licking up the shit they feed you. They invented nothing, just stole what Maeda taught them. Don't be surprised when you tangle with a judoka and he snaps your weak arm like a twig, just as Kimura snapped Helio's arm.
BloodofPatriots 10 months ago
@BloodofPatriots I'll just keep training while you type out essays for youtube comments.
13expose13 10 months ago
@13expose13 You don't train. You lick gracie ass. Don't be surprised when you get your weak little arms snapped like twigs when you piss off the wrong judoka, kid.
BloodofPatriots 10 months ago
@BloodofPatriots LOL JUDO? you kidding me? a 6 month new blue belt can beat a black belt in judo now as judo rarely evolves and most judokas's are shit once they hit the ground against anyone decent off of their back. You ain't snapping anyone's arm who is decent at jits. keep dreaming.
patfiacco 9 months ago
@BloodofPatriots take it from a guy who has won countless advanced tournaments off his back, i would fuckin destroy you and your attempts to hold onto history even if you were 100 pounds heavier than me with your ignorance to the evolution of grappling
patfiacco 9 months ago
@patfiacco What evolution? Name a single technique in Gracie "judo" that didn't exist in Kano's original Kano Jiu-Jitsu (Judo). Go ahead, name just one that the Gracies invented. Even Eddie Bravo admits to stealing his "rubber guard" from Judo newaza. As for ignorance, you should look in the mirror, kid. You seem to think there's only one kind of judo and that it's Olympic judo that focuses on tachiwaza. What makes you think you could even get me to the ground anyway? Ever hear of "rooting"?
BloodofPatriots 9 months ago
@BloodofPatriots
The Gracies didnt invent the moves - they never said they did.
What they DID do, was alter the techniques to be more efficient and got rid of some moves that relied too much on strength.
GJJ is a STYLE of jiu jitsu...NOT a style of its own.
You should already know all this, I dont know why you act like you dont know.
Stop hating, please.
SkemeKOS 7 months ago
@SkemeKOS It's a rip-off of Judo newaza. Maeda never learned jujitsu, only judo; therefore, he could only have taught the Gracies Judo. Because of their wussy bodies, they decided to focus only on newaza. The Kosen judokas focused on newaza, not because they were weak, but because it's the fastest way to learn enough self-defense to nullify an opponent's size advantage. BJJ's abandoning of stand-up fighting is now a weakness since everyone's learned to stop their newaza.
BloodofPatriots 7 months ago
@BloodofPatriots
I agree about the lack of stand up fighting.
SkemeKOS 7 months ago
@BloodofPatriots
OH YES!!!!! You have certainly proven the non-effectiveness of Jiu-Jitsu, I see I see Professor, Wussy Bodies = "cowardly ground work".. Hmmm next you should try challenging the Theories of Relativity, oh and I never knew that Jiu-Jitsu is just ripped of Judo,, hmm explains why the Japanese sell bootlegs by BJJ academies, to get us back for bootlegging their "Judo".. Professor u have certainly provided quite the case against Jiu Jitsu effectivness and principle
ImpassableGuardJJ 7 months ago
@ImpassableGuardJJ BJJ is "basically just judo" and not even all of it, just the newaza. Do you deny that Jigoro Kano modernized tradional Japanese ju-jitsu in 1881 and his students defeated the old style at the Tokyo Police Challenge in 1886? Do you deny that Maeda never studied traditiona ju-jitsu, only Judo at the Kodokan? Do you deny that Maeda taught the Gracies Judo, not ju-jitsu? The only thing the Gracies did was focus on newaza and ditch Kano's names for techniques to spic names.
BloodofPatriots 7 months ago
@BloodofPatriots
If u came by my gym I'd show u how more efficient Jiu-Jitsu is than Judo.Professor ass face, it's not "basically just judo"your simplifying the art to the point of saying "wrestling and Jiu-Jitsu are the same because u grab people". "Spic Names" a term used by people I dn't continue talking with."The only thing the Gracies did" is a statement that puts you in a position to claim a revolutionary-martial art family's impact, Professor assface hav failed to give them due credit
ImpassableGuardJJ 7 months ago
@ImpassableGuardJJ I noticed how you didn't attempt to deny any of the historical facts I cited above, instead you snapped because the truth fills your vagina with sand. Wrestlers are decimated BJJ'ers by stacking them up in the guard, then punching them in the face until they cry all the way back to fake-ass gyms like yours. Wrestlers are dangerous because of their techniques that date all the back to the ancient Olympics. Now that they know how to avoid submissions, they're destroying BJJ'ers.
BloodofPatriots 7 months ago
@BloodofPatriots
Decimation by "stacking up in their guard".... You probably don't even know how to stack or it's mechanics yet you speak about it you fool. My gym's fake? Your quite the Keyboard warrior, but Reality is Reality and you would be torn to shreds in my gym. Also Wrestlers don't just learn how to avoid submissions, they learn Jiu-Jitsu. lol you think without JiuJitsu they could survive???? Jiu-Jitsu is the core of successful MMA , thats a Fact. History proves such bitch
ImpassableGuardJJ 7 months ago
@ImpassableGuardJJ Stacking is all about leverage, getting your hips underneath the guy on the bottom. Once that's accomplished, you can push his knees up to his face because your legs will have greater strength than his back muscles do to straighten out. You think it's rocket science? It's physics, you idiot. Yes, your gym is as fake as your guard is weak. Impassable? Ha. A wrestler doesn't need to pass your guard. Jon Jones or Mark Munoz would beat you to death from inside your weak guard.
BloodofPatriots 7 months ago
@BloodofPatriots
Also you pathetic faggot, NO SUCCESSFUL MMA FIGHTER is without Jiu-Jitsu training, therefore Jiu-Jitsu is the core of MMA. LOL you probably approached Jiu-Jitsu and failed and so your insecurities lead you to simpler Wrestling.OH or maybe it's the racism? You want "American-Wrestling" over Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. You don't understand what the Guard is and if Jon Jones is the fighter who tells you what works and what doesn't in Jiu-Jitsu then your as blind as you are stupid
ImpassableGuardJJ 7 months ago
@ImpassableGuardJJ Ju-Jitsu WAS the core of successful MMA, miss sandy vagina, now it's wrestling and striking. GSP was crap after he earned his black belt in BJJ. It wasn't until he learned to wrestle at a world class level did he become champion. Look at Jon Jones destroying Shogun Rua or Rory MacDonald suplexing Nate Diaz like the prison bitch you were after you went to jail for stealing little boy's underwear. How is BJJ doing in MMA now? Jon Fitch was right: the close guard is DEAD.
BloodofPatriots 7 months ago
@BloodofPatriots
I never went to prison you fool. Professor Ass-Face your objective isn't to push his knees to his face it's to clear his legs. Your also trying to avoid using unnecessary force like using your legs to stack when you want to "Pass" not sandwich your opponent. Fool I don't need you to tell me "it's not rocket science". Also I've only had my guard passed twice in over 35 Tournament fights you fucking faggot. Also Dumbass GSP didn't earn his black belt until around UFC 100
ImpassableGuardJJ 7 months ago
@BloodofPatriots
I train, I compete, until you do that then your comments are as worthless as a fat fuck like you trying to give advice to basketball players in the NBA. Your a fag and all you know is what you watch not experience. Blood of Patriots, Yea I'm sure plenty of those people you call "spics" fought for your rights to comment on shit you know nothing about. You couldn't last a minute in my world you fake motherfucker. Find me a champion who doesn't train Jiu-Jitsu, go fuck yourself
ImpassableGuardJJ 7 months ago
@ImpassableGuardJJ Go douche all that sand out of your vagina, crybaby. Then tell your mommy the man on the internet made you cry, perhaps she'll give you a cookie before putting you down for your nap, princess. BJJ is "basically just judo". Why don't you try finding a single spic-named technique in BJJ that isn't a rip-off of traditional Judo? I bet you think BJJ'ers invented pulling guard, don't you? Haha. Research Tsunetane Oda for newaza perfection, princess. Now go have a good cry.
BloodofPatriots 7 months ago
@BloodofPatriots
Also I never said a Judoka-Wrestler I said "Judokas,Wrestlers " but didn't place a "," ...Nothing is a "Rip-Off" if it's more efficient you pussy. That's like saying anything made after the first firearms were invented is just a rip-off. Your arguing a losing battle peasant. Now go to your local BJJ gym and learn to play drums (tap tap tap) Professor Ass Face. You've failed to rebuttle properly to any of my points. Therefore conversation over, you lost.
ImpassableGuardJJ 7 months ago
@ImpassableGuardJJ So, you do admit writing "judoka wrestlers" but claim it was a mistake because you're too stupid to use a comma? Funny. A flintlock has only a trigger in common with a AA-12, everything else is innovation and improvement -- so your analogy is, like you, full of shit. Why don't you state some BJJ-invented techniques that were not invented in Judo first. Go ahead. Before you do, you really should look up Tsunetane Oda, a newaza master from the Kosen Judo tradition.
BloodofPatriots 7 months ago
@BloodofPatriots
bass its as clear as day I didn't write "judoka-wrestlers" I wrote Judokas wrestlers as in the two,all Judokas and Wrestlers train BJJ otherwise they'd never be successful in MMA. Thats a fact, no arguing that. No, my analogy is not shit, a Colt Revolver has the same Base as every revolver after, but today's revolvers are much more efficient. As Judo's Newaza is to BJJ. Also 50/50 Guard, Hip-bbump Triangle, MArcelo-Garcia Grip(seatbelt) and Rubber Guard
ImpassableGuardJJ 7 months ago
@ImpassableGuardJJ What exactly did the gracies do that wasn't already being done by the Kosen judokas? The Kosen judokas were stomping the stand-up judo schools and Kano recognized their expertise. The only thing the gracies did was give stupid spic names to Japanese judo and ju-jitsu names. Kimura was a judoka, not a hold. He used a reverse ude garami to snap helio gracie's arm like a twig. The gracies are marketing whores -- not exactly a surprise for spics.
BloodofPatriots 7 months ago
@BloodofPatriots
I didn't try to deny the historical facts because only a retard like yourself denies facts. You just claimed wrestlers to be more dangerous then Jiu-Jitsu fighters because you Professor Ass-Face are ignorant to Martial Arts or combat arts in general. The more you spoke the more I realized you certainly have no or little combat experience. I know who Kimura was you idiot, and Judoka's Wrestlers all train JiuJitsu in MMA LOL because if they don't they're basically shark bait
ImpassableGuardJJ 7 months ago
@ImpassableGuardJJ Jon Jones is more dangerous than any crybaby BJJ'er in his weight class -- he destroyed BJJ'ers Shogun Rua. Mark Munoz is eating BJJ'ers like Kendal Grove and Demian Maia for breakfast. Judokas study judo, wrestlers study freestyle or greco-roman wrestling. To call someone a "judoka wrestler" is like calling you a shemale. Oh, I guess that would be right. Now go douche the sand out of your vagina so you can be all clean and fresh the next time the gracie's fuck you.
BloodofPatriots 7 months ago
@BloodofPatriots
LMFAO the Lightheavy weight division doesn't have many stand out BJJ fighters, Jon Jones beat Rua standing you idiot and Shogun wasn't vry successful at BJJ competiton so he's no1 to brag about. WHAT FIGHT DID YOU SEE THAT MUNOZ ATE MAIA?!?!? lol he won a split decision, but certainly didn't eat any1 you fool. Also Professor Ass-Face I made clear points and you failed to counter them. Your a failure, I've tapped a Judo blackbelt before too, cause they work terrible in guard
ImpassableGuardJJ 7 months ago
@ImpassableGuardJJ Maia was touted as the best BJJ'er Munoz ever faced, yet he successfully countered everything Maia tried to do. You didn't tap a judo blackbelt, he most likely rolled you onto your belly and then tapped your well-used ass just like the gracies do when they take your money every month for teaching you nothing but ripped-off judo newaza. Now go wipe your ass, it's leaking gracie sperm.
BloodofPatriots 7 months ago
@patfiacco
LMFAO BloodofPatriots goes "ever hear of rooting" lol He thinks if he reads up techniques on the internet he'll stop a takedown or a guard pull HAHAHAHHAHA I know what you mean, I've been competing for 2 1/2 years and I've never not placed 1st or 2nd at a tournament except once cause I jumped weight class and then fags on youtube try to argue. They're out of their minds.
ImpassableGuardJJ 7 months ago
@ImpassableGuardJJ You have no idea what rooting is, do you? It's a change in one's center of gravity that makes it damn near impossible to move someone. Rooting is part of kuzushi and stand-up techniques, which BJJ'ers all abandoned, instead pulling guard. Pulling guard was invented by Tsunetane Oda of the Kosen Judo tradition, you idiot. Now go wipe the gracie sperm leaking out of your ass. Reduced to bragging on the internet? How, well, very pussy of you, princess. Haha
BloodofPatriots 7 months ago
@BloodofPatriots
YOU IDIOT OF COURSE I KNOW WHAT ROOTING IS BECAUSE I TRAIN!!! lol You make Rooting sound like the end all be all though, It would be impossible for ur untrained as to move someone while they're rooting, but not me. Naturally If I've grappled for 2 1/2 years I've had to root you fucking idiot, but you can certainly manipulate someone's center of gravity. It doesn't matter who "invented" guard pulling because humans probably did it before there was a name.
ImpassableGuardJJ 7 months ago
@BloodofPatriots
Also the way you root for judo or even prepare yourself for a throw, leaves you very weak for doubles and singles, your a fool, but it's like arguing with someone with assburgers when I comment you, Don't comment anymore you fucking illegal alien, yes I know the secret, you were formely an illegal alien and now you wage war on them lol you can comment further Im not replying. you have been served faggot
ImpassableGuardJJ 7 months ago
@ImpassableGuardJJ You don't even know what you're trying to discuss. Its as confusing to you as a damn apostrophe seems to be. Rooting is used when an opponent attacks the upper body, not when an opponent attacks the legs, you idiot gracie sperm swallower. A damn spic whore trying to call anyone else an illegal alien is laughable. I bet you're the worst of spics; you're one of those damn nigger spics.
BloodofPatriots 7 months ago
@BloodofPatriots
damn u sure made him shutup!
OVERCAPITALIZE 4 months ago
@77paulinho BJJ'ers do not teach kuzushi or "rooting" nor do they teach anything but basic throws like ogoshi, etc. I've randori'd against BJJ'ers and they couldn't move me-even when they were bigger. On the other hand, I threw them around the mat like ragdolls, especially with my go-to throw, tai otoshi. You see, normally I'm a nice guy and I pull back in randori before I slam a guy's head into the ground, but with BJJ'ers, they need to be taught a lesson. Now go learn your nage waza, punk.
BloodofPatriots 10 months ago
@1hqvpc You do realize that on the street, Kimura would have killed Helio, right? He threw him around like a ragdoll. Without the heavy padding of the mat to save him, Helio's head would have been split like a melon. That's something you gracie asslickers just don't understand about judo. Our throws are violent and cause serious damage in the real life situations. If you studied throws, princess, you'd know there's a point of the throw where a judoka can either pull back or increase the force.
BloodofPatriots 10 months ago
@BloodofPatriots you do realize the gracies basically invented the ufc and Royce won the first three tournaments with NO WEIGHT CLASS and multiple fights a night
manicl33t 10 months ago
@manicl33t You do realize that the gracies have never entered a Kosen judo tournament? Why? Because Kosen judokas are just as newaza focused as they are, but they don't disrespect Kano or Judo by trying to call their style "kosen jiu-jitsu". As for the UFC, the participants were hand-picked by the gracies. Now go lick some more gracie ass.
BloodofPatriots 10 months ago
@BloodofPatriots you do realize the gracies basically invented the ufc and Royce won the first three tournaments with NO WEIGHT CLASS and multiple fights a night. EAT A QUEEF.
manicl33t 10 months ago
@1hqvpc Rickson Gracie is not undefeated in the UFC. He won't even step into the UFC. You know why? Because that's the best of the best and he knows he'd get his ass handed to him just as Cro Cop did. Why didn't Rickson ever fight Sakuraba? Because he was scared of the Gracie Hunter. As for completely changing judo newaza, they did nothing of the kind. Look at the Kosen Judokas that took to newaza long before the gracies and tell me they do anything different. Call it Brazilian Newaza-Judo.
BloodofPatriots 10 months ago
This for all of you guy yes most of Bjj blacks belts are laz yfighter they throw them into there guard and work from but then again Theres no Judo champions in mmayes judo is more agressive but if you but a all american wrestler against a judo black belt the wrestler would always just my opinion
J4cKpOt7771 10 months ago
@77paulinho Ever heard of Fedor Emeliankenko? He's a blackbelt in judo and won numerous titles and belts. Antonio Nogueira (Pride), Vitor Belfort (UFC), and Anderson Silva (UFC) are all BJJ'ers, but they also have black belts in judo. Now ask yourself why would they "waste" their time studying judo if BJJ was all you think they need? As for judo going toe-to-toe with GJJ, undefeated black belt Kim Dong-hyun used his judo to control GJJ'er Nate Diaz the entire fight at UFC 125.
BloodofPatriots 10 months ago
@1hqvpc You can call a table a car, still doesn't make it a car. Gracie "jiu-jitsu" is just newaza-focused Kodokan Judo as taught to them by Mitsuyo Maeda. Out of respect for him and for Professor Kano, you should call it, at best, gracie judo, thereby respecting Kano, Maeda, and, if you must, the thief, helio gracie.
BloodofPatriots 10 months ago
@77paulinho I am a BJJ practitioner and i'm slightly ashamed to be associated in that small way with you. Judo and BJJ are both effective in mma. The difference is BJJ is marketed better and is better understood by the average person. You clearly know nothing about either martial art. The one and only reason i choose BJJ over Judo is because i am a lazy fighter. I like to fight from the guard. Judo is far more agressive.
Gogoplata205 10 months ago
Adressing the description - I don't know of any Bjj guys who don't know where it came from. And i'd like to point out that the fight was only stopped because carlos was worried about his brother. Kimura was 80lbs heavier and a WORLD champion. He (kimura) considered Helio the winner just for surviving for 13 minutes, and said Helio probably would have won if he was heavier. After this match, Kimura invited Helio to teach with him. Helio deserves a bit more credit that you give him in my opiinion
Gogoplata205 10 months ago
@77paulinho Its hard to understand what you're trying to say because you obviously can't spell or write English, but I think your suggesting that bjj is more effective than judo. That was not case when Helio gracie fought Kimura or when Royce Gracie fought Yoshida.
jackeenninja 10 months ago
@jackeenninja I've given my view on the Kimura fight. As for the yoshida fight. i think its fair to say that he was winning. but gracie wasn't unconcious and he didn't tap. Yoshida even said that was the case and he would give gracie a rematch. It would be silly of either of us to say that these fights prove anything. As i white belt i beat a Judo green belt on a few occasions (he was both heavier and stronger than me) but i've also been beaten by judo white belts... I hope you get my point.
Gogoplata205 10 months ago
@1hqvpc Of course judo and Gracie "judo" are not the same. The Gracies are obsessed with newaza and all but abandoned the throws. They weren't the first to do so, the Kosen Universities did it first. The Gracies are posers for calling what Maeda taught them "jiu jitsu". It's judo. Mitsuyo Maeda taught them judo (Kano Jiu Jitsu), not traditional jiu jitsu. Call it what it is: Gracie Newaza Judo.
BloodofPatriots 11 months ago
@1hqvpc Try studying traditional, not sport, judo. You'll find it's brutally effective for the street. Half the stuff in traditional judo isn't allowed in sport judo. Sport judo is derived from traditional judo, not jiu jitsu. Judo was a major refinement of jiu jitsu. For the record, there is not such thing as "Gracie Jiu Jitsu". It's Gracie "Judo" -- look up Mitsuyo Maeda if you doubt that fact. Maeda, who taught the Gracies how to fight, never studied jiu jitsu. He was Kano's best judoka.
BloodofPatriots 11 months ago
You're dumb, he fought Helio's student Santana to a 1-0-1. Kimura submitted Santana by Kimura in a grappling match and fought him to a 40 min draw in MMA.
chee2010 11 months ago
Kimura went back to Brazil and lost to one of Helio's best students of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, but nobody talks about that. Lol.
Jmillal 1 year ago
@Jmillal So what? Sakuraba, a wrestler, defeated four Gracies by himself -- including breaking Royler's arm in a nasty Kimura. Royce even resorted to taking steroids for the rematch he was so humiliated by losing to a catch-wrestler. Sakuraba is known as the Gracie Hunter -- wonder why BJJ'er don't want to talk about him?
BloodofPatriots 11 months ago
this is like judo throwing brazilian jiu jitsu
DikkiSeamen 1 year ago
OK I'm tired of people saying jiu jitsu is useless, Gracie jiu jitsu was developed for the street.it has throws, and takedowns. so saying wrestling is more useful or judo why? wrestling take downs and holds. judo throws holds and some submissions. jiu jitsu takedowns, throws, holds, and submissions. and saying i know Jiu Jitsu, doesn't mean i cant punch. and for the record, if you actually train in it, you haveto learn to fight multiple opponents to get higher ranking belts, so useless argument.
martialartguyxxx 1 year ago
@martialartguyxxx and if i'm on the ground, by the time your freind kicks me in the head, i already broke your arm, so who got worse?
also i would like to see a Thia fighter fight multiple opponents. different style, same fate. if Mastato fought 3 or 4 dudes, you know what would happen? theyd rush him, and beat the shit out of him.
"i don't lose because I know Jiu Jitsu, I lose because I got jumped by a couple of bitches who cant fight fair" its about the fighter not the style.
martialartguyxxx 1 year ago
@martialartguyxxx dead on dude.. muay thai, judo, jiu jitsu, boxing.. it doesnt matter.. they will all get fucked up on the street if you have multiple attackers with any goddam sense.. what happens when a thai fighter gets knocked to the ground by multiple opponents? LOL.. owned... same for jiu jitsu.. owned.. i practice jiu jitsu and love the sport but to bash any of these is rediculous.. you have to know them all..
jonjon1189 1 year ago
@martialartguyxxx Depends how hard you get kicked in the head I guess, if you get brain damage from that yours is a lot worse, remember they won't always stop at one kick or when your knocked unconscious, especially if you just broke his mates arm. There is no "fair" on the street. Doesn't matter who you are if your outnumbered the odds are against you
BroomeBlocker4 1 year ago
@martialartguyxxx you obviously train in BJJ, so you'll know the trows in BJJ come from judo. You'll also know that very little time is given over to practicing throws compared to the grappling/ground fighting in BJJ. In fact, in some BJJ clubs the throws are never taught. and learning to throw takes time as does any martial art. Ideally, a person should learn judo, bjj and how to strike. But on the street I'd rather be able to strike or throw than grapple for obvious reasons.
jackeenninja 1 year ago
@jackeenninja i make sure to train in throws, as i am very tall and hate to shoot. right now i only do BJJ through an MMA program. but soon sign up for karate, BJJ, kickboxing, and Judo. i really do love judo throws, and think it will complete my game, as BJJ beats judo in submissions, Judo beats BJJ in throws. what do you get if you put them together? I'll tell you, a grappling bad ass.
martialartguyxxx 1 year ago
@martialartguyxxx train hard, fight easy bro
jackeenninja 1 year ago
@martialartguyxxx When you put BJJ's newaza and Judo's tachi waza together, you get Anderson Silva.
BloodofPatriots 11 months ago
Bjj is nothing more than classical judo newaza! If you don't believe me research it for yourselves.
vinstu 1 year ago 2
I think everyone should learn both Judo and BJJ. BJJ obviously is more ground oriented and yes more technical and slower paced. Judo is obviously more takedown oriented and as much as Judoka don't want to admit, relies heavily on size and strength and is more aggressive. These two go hand in hand really though. It's better imo to attempt take someone down and fail than to just pull guard. You can always pull guard after a failed attempt at a takedown or if you get taken down.
LittleJ2008 1 year ago
@LittleJ2008 or a alternative is to learn ju jutsu the father of judo and the grandfather of BJJ it a very well rounded art
dudesrock2 1 year ago
@dudesrock2 unless you live in Japan where daito ryu jyuujitsu or aki jyuujitsu is taught, you are not going to get true original jiujitsu training. even then Judo advanced on the stand up or tachi waza and BJJ advanced on the ground aspect or ne waza. boku wa nihongo o hanashimasu. I'm currently living in Japan and learning Japanese and Japanese culture and even the Japanese fighters here are moving away from Judo and Daito Ryu to BJJ. Nice try at the one-up though.
LittleJ2008 1 year ago
I have only started BJJ recently, but I have gotten into plenty of street fights before and all I knew was a little boxing and some wrestling, I did fine. one guy tried kicking me and i just did a double leg and started smashing his face. now i could choke him out or brake his arm or something. if you cant fight, no martial art is going to help you.
iliketoeatspag 1 year ago
@iliketoeatspag watch out grasshooper your lack of experience and EGO may get you in DEEP trouble
HIVisaLIE 1 year ago
@HIVisaLIE probably not.
iliketoeatspag 1 year ago
I think most BJJ guys do know that BJJ comes from Judo. But the majority of Judo players are just shit on the ground. One should practice both arts.
blueingreentrain 1 year ago
BJJ is best for when fighting ONE person. Something like Krav maga is good for multiple attackers.
Parkourgray 1 year ago
@kerria181 mine too people tap before the crank i had a dude yall TAAAAP at the top of his lungs before i put the pressure on :D straight from osoto into kesa then juji
:D
garciag03 1 year ago
Put credit where it is due. Kosen Judo = Origin of BJJ. Rickson said in his book that the japanese held back on teaching and taught only the basics because they were non-japanese and thus had to learn and evolve the art on their own. Helio did impove what he learned, but he did not invent it.
watch?v=xjidQQz1yjM&feature=related JIGORO KANO > HIRATA SENSEI
ipyonoti 1 year ago
In a street fight that's when you want the arm bar in paticular. Not for a submission to break the fuckers arm. then you move on to the next person your fighting. If you get jumped you use any and all means to make them regret that decision. your not going to drop into a full fighting stance but your not going to swing wild either.
archer3k1 1 year ago
I am just glad Gracie admitted his short comings and made no excuses. ( I am a Judo guy but I have great respect for BJJ ). It should be remembered though they threw the towel and Gracie DID NOT tap. 2 points cancel each other out.
1. On anything resembling a normal surface, Kimura would have KO'd with a throw.
2. Due to the discrepancy in age & weight KIMURA said if it goes past 3 min. Gracie WINS.
DandDskeeto 2 years ago
It was the shock off the small guy doing so well from the bottum which the Japanese had not developed and Helio did being the smallest of all his brothers, which was the signifigance of this match, but you probly already know this, Im just sayin
underDAhood95 1 year ago
In the street, you throw a guy on to concrete, he is finished. Or do you go to the ground to submit or choke while his buddy is kicking you in the face. So in a fight on the street, which is better, judo throws or BJJ ground fighting or for that matter, good strikes? BJJ is very limited outside a ring.
jackeenninja 2 years ago 11
try throwing someone without a Gi on and who is throwing punches at you, 100% different situation than in a Judo tournament
hazard2000 2 years ago 2
Firstly, on the street, people wear clothes which is every bit as good as a GI. Secondly, you don't need a Gi to throw a person, it happens in mma fights all the time. Thirdly, japanese ju jujitsu was developed for the battlefield where nobody wore a Gi. All Japanese martial arts with throws in them stem from ju ju jutsiu, be it judo, aikido or ninjutsu. Finally, it is much easier to throw someone that is throwing punches and stand high, much harder in a tournament when someone is squatting low
jackeenninja 2 years ago 18
@jackeenninja you had a good comment except the part "nobody wore a gi on the battlefield". White is the traditional funeral color in Japan. All Samurai wore a white gi under their armor to symbolize they were willing to die on the battlefield already dressed in the clothing they would wear to be cremated in. Even if Samurai were to severely injure an enemy with a throw, they would have surely continued with a joint break or a fatal choke on the ground if they had lost their katana.
LittleJ2008 1 year ago
@jackeenninja yea this is why Ju-Jutsu is more throw orientated because in the time of feudal japan samurai would use juj-jutsu if unarmed samurai would often be armoured were striking metal was pretty pointless so throws and breakks were more appropreate
dudesrock2 1 year ago
@dudesrock2 Never thought of that. Kicking or punching armor would hurt, hurt the wrong person though.
akirafactor 1 year ago
Comment removed
Gogoplata205 10 months ago
@jackeenninja Seventhly.... shut the fuck up.
jorgekluney 8 months ago
Well, it's different alright ( of course punches at you is another matter as well. Judo man can learn to throw without a gi IF HE TRIES. There are no gi throws in mma all the time. I can tell you from first hand experience, it's not always bad.
As a young man in college and grad school I worked as a bouncer and did some "stand beside" duties for local bail bondsmen. I looked forward to cold weather, with a heavy winter coat to grab, I could LAUNCH some folks.
DandDskeeto 1 year ago
You should refer to UFC 1,2,3,4,5 . buddy IS wearing a GI while somebody is throwing punches. plus he is out weighed in some cases by almost 100 pounds. Gracie did a good job back in the day.....
thegliphic 1 year ago
Happens in mma fights all the time? are you watching the same MMA fights im watching? I can watch 10-15 fights in a row without seeing someone getting thrown and when you do its extremely sloppy it anit no Ippon Seoinage or something that you see in Judo tournaments, 1v1 on the street BJJ is better than judo
hazard2000 2 years ago
watch Hector Lombards fights
underDAhood95 1 year ago
All martial arts have limited applications on the street.
Many times if you throw a man down on the concrete, he is not finished.
steburton 2 years ago
go to brazil and train BJJ for the street it's different than all the gyms around the world, at the end off the day theres a million possibilitys in a fight, guys in Brasil that know there gonna fight someone thats a Judo guy or Bjj guy (say in a bar situation) will get their mates to smash bottles all over the ground when the fight starts so no one wants to be down there
underDAhood95 1 year ago
but what you are talking about is a specific situation in which you are basiclly representing as the steet fight' norm'. which isn t ture . if you get jumped by 5 dudes ANY type of offensive striking is pretty much rendered useless.. it all depends on the situation and on the person regardless of weather or not he knows BJJ. Boxing....etc who in their right mind is gonna start trying to give a dude an arm bar after five of his buddies swore they wouldn t jump in......??
thegliphic 1 year ago
@thegliphic thats why you make sure you break the fucker. no tap just break the joint instantly :)
therage001 1 year ago
@therage001 YA!
while his buddies stomp your head in and put you in a comma because you were trying to be a "man" by trying to break their friends arm...
thegliphic 1 year ago
@jackeenninja well there are throws in BJJ as well... personally i like Judo foot sweeps, no one expects them, they're fast and effective, sweep one guy move quickly onto the next, throw him and run. The best defence is to run, but if you're like me i dont like that... if someone is threatening me or trying to hurt me i show them there and then not to fuck with me
Brady2k10 1 year ago
@jackeenninja Not really. What happens in a fight where he keeps getting up. Saying "Hes done if you throw him onto concrete" ISnt a very 100% statement. Put him in an armbar and break the arm THEN hes done THEN you can worry about the buddy
HCPfan 1 year ago
@jackeenninja If you watch Karo Parisyan you see an awesome judoka doing well in mma. he did as well as he did because he adapted it to the ocatagon. He also added strikes which is why he was often able to throw people because he made them stand upright. Ever notice that in freestyle wrestling tournaments you don't see a lot of judo throws? That's because most of your judo throws work best when you opponent is standing up. So on the street you best be able to modify those judo throws.
rooster26730 1 year ago
@jackeenninja or his buddy comes up and kicks you in the balls while your trying to throw the other person... okay lets do a run down shall we.. biting, choking, eye gouging, fish hooks, grabbing someones nuts and squeezing as hard as you can... not too pretty but its effective.. how bout weapons? like a gun.. at a distance you cant reach it... truth is none of this shit is effective on the street unless your opponents fight fair.. and according to you they dont since they jump you
jonjon1189 1 year ago
@jackeenninja I never thought of it that way. Very intelligent.
unknownally 1 year ago
@jackeenninja In a fight on the street, the best thing is to either run faster, or have a knife. Or as you say, not be outnumbered
Japanese jiu jitsu couldn't have been much use in battle either, where infantry fought with spears and armored samurai with swords on horseback. And archers. Not to mention firearms, at least since Sekigahara.
It's a mistake to call hand-to-hand methods "martial arts." War is done with weapons. It should be "fighting arts."
kozmon0t 1 year ago
@kozmon0t Jiu Jitsu was absolutely critical in battle. With samurai wearing armor, it was useless to strike, so, absent swords, a kill was best achieved by throwing your opponent violently to the ground, stunning him enough to draw your knife or short sword and then killing him by slicing his throat. You should study more history of feudal Japan.
BloodofPatriots 11 months ago
@BloodofPatriots If you think there was any significant amount of "absent swords" going on in Japanese battles, you shouldn't talk about studying more history.
If you're in a battle in feudal Japan with nothing but a knife, you're a serious fuckup and your first move should be to get a weapon, not tackle a guy with a sword or spear.
Of course, that goes for all war everywhere.
kozmon0t 11 months ago
@kozmon0t Thanks for proving you know nothing of history or warfare. Samurai carried multiple edged weapons, not just the katana and wakizashi, but also the tanto (knife). During battle, swords are lost and jiu-jitsu was created to take-down an armed attacker where he could be finished with a choke or knife. The same thing for modern warfare. Why do you think US Marines are issued ka-bars and train in MCMAP? Why are Stryker brigades being issued tomahawks along with their M-4s? duh.
BloodofPatriots 11 months ago
@kozmon0t You have no idea how samurai fought battles do you? It was all melee -- why do you think they wore banners on themselves? So their own guys wouldn't kill them. It was up close and personal slaughter. Weapons are lost, firearms misfire, horses die, and archers run out of arrows. Jiu jitsu served the same purpose for the samurai as MCMAP does for the Marines today or pankration training did for the ancient Greeks -- it's the last means to defend yourself in battle.
BloodofPatriots 11 months ago
@jackeenninja its 6etter to run if outnum6ered. 1 on 1 its going to the ground.
running or grappling... Those are your two choices.
aquilonian 1 year ago
@jackeenninja so his buddy kicks you when you're on the ground, but not doing shit when you're standing up? unlikely.
BigThier96 8 months ago
Helio also said Kimura had a choke on him that would have finished him early in the fight, but he let up to check if he was ok.
Bottom line is this,
Kimura>Gracies
It's nothing new that the Gracies like to mouth off about BJJ (see Hughes vs Gracie) and pretend they had a moral victory.
But as far as if this determines a better art, that's hard due to competition rules. Judo throw=win. BJJ=going to the ground means we just started. So unless your Ippon KO's, its all newaza (BJJ) time.
ShoryukenThatHadoken 2 years ago 3
Actually Kimura invited Helio back to Japan to teach,Helio invited Kimura back to his ranch to get naked.
kneeknott 2 years ago
Something about this fight that I think ought to be addressed too is that Kimura was also an awesome ground guy. I think Nobuyuki Sato commented on this being kind of a Hokkaido tradition (I could be wrong about the locale). I am not making excuses, but both Helio and Kimura were good on the mat.. And that isn't necessarily the case across the board for Judoka. In any event all this fight really proves is that Kimura was the better man that night..
Godsmasher22 2 years ago
major pwonage
cjudoka 2 years ago
No Kimura before Kimura; no Kimura after Kimura
theblink182skater 2 years ago
Man, that dude outweighted Helio bigtime. Just because Helio was really good at what he did, people now expect him to beat up guys even if they are the best at their discipline, and outweight him. Hes not superman or anything.
Even when Matt Hughes grappled Tito Ortiz he got beaten. Weight does matter is technique is similar.
marineguy4eva 2 years ago
in the book "my judo" writen by Kimura, you can find the official weights from both, helio, and Kimura, and kimura was only 17 lb (8 kg) over helio. but the gracies are a bunch of liars that can't accept defeat, so they told everybody that Kimura was way too big for helio. And also Kimura denies that he invited helio to teach ion japan, That was rickson's bullshit. Another fucking gracie lie for making money.
alwerty1 2 years ago
which is why bjj beats judo 9/10because its lies...
daz45 2 years ago
how does judo lie? and where are these 9/10 stats?
alwerty1 2 years ago
i never said judo lies you said bjj lies, and i said bjj beats judo because it lies...exibit A. national judoka world level tapped by a brazilian jujitsu blue belt in the british open, also a bj penn tapped numerous judokas on a video on youtube go watch it.
daz45 2 years ago
never did i say bjj lies, i just said the gracies themselves lied when they described the fight. they always make an excuse for there losses. im not doubting there skill though. and isnt bj penn known as a bjj prodigy anyway lol. besides all these other people you bring up are totally irrelevant. im speaking on these 2 greats going at it in the vid. and as you've seen the judoka won
alwerty1 2 years ago
Dude... Helio was a judo student. BJJ is just the ground work of Judo. It's all marketing. BJJ does not have even 1 technique that is exclusive. They tell everyone they evolved it and made the art better but the truth is not 1 technique was their creation. The media is brainwashing people into thinking judo is all standup... but the truth is only the competition rules are different. All of the BJJ ground work is Judo and learned at judo clubs.
JoedirtMike 2 years ago 2
yet a judoka cannot fight effectively off his back such as gardner vs yoshida an olympic champion judoka, who could not submit a pure wrestler with basically no other skills in a ground battle but roger gracie against gardner and no doubt he would have tapped gardner, thus proving the effectiveness and the difference from gracie jiu jitsu and judo, i have very rarely seen a judoka do anything other than an armbar, i have seen a blue belt bjj tap a national judo champ, bjj is far superior.
daz45 2 years ago
You can't use one example of a fight and make it a rule. The only difference is in the competition rules with Judo. Thats it. Nothing else. BJJ is not superior to anything. The largest difference is always the fighter, not necessarily the style. The gracies have lied about their records and training for years. The only thing they are better at is marketing.
JoedirtMike 2 years ago
I think they have both become better at different things. When I was just a BJJ blue belt, I could beat, with relative ease champion black belt Judoka when the fight hit the mat. Though on the feet, I had alot more trouble with almost any rank of Judoka especially by Judo rules. This will I think change. Because knowing the Judo, only makes the BJJ stronger, and vice versa. They are I think flip sides of the same coin.
Godsmasher22 2 years ago
With relative ease beat CHAMPION black belt judoka? Being an Olympic sport Judo is governed therefore a champion judoka will be well known... please inform me of which champion Judoka you beat with ease. For the record the guards you mentioned are not exclusive to BJJ and were around before the gracies even started martial arts.
JoedirtMike 2 years ago
You will note I said once the fight hit the mat, that is in newaza mode. I trained Judo at a competition school, and hammered most of their black belts on the ground. The only guy who ever gave me much a run was the head instructor of the school, who was very good on the mat. He pinned me on a few occasions typically resulting from a throw in which landed in a good position, but never ever submitted me, or when we started in newaza ever even passed my guard. I got thrown alot.
Godsmasher22 2 years ago
My competition at the school were all American Judoka, and I have no real interest in naming names, largely because I didn't pay much attention to their names. I was only told later about their tournament accolades. I have no dog in this fight. All I am saying is that the sophistication of the BJJ ground game is greater than that of Judo. Just as the sophistication of the throwing Judo is more sophisticated than that of BJJ. I was thrown with ease by a 60 year old for instance.
Godsmasher22 2 years ago
nor in all my judo training have I ever seen spider or x-guards taught, or mentioned. Nor have I seen either in any book on Judo, and I have more than my fair share of such books. And any time I stood up in person's guard at Judo, the match would be called to a halt, and we would start again.
Godsmasher22 2 years ago
Spider guard (for example) may not be utilized in Judo as much because of competition rules... however it is still Judo. In karate they teach groin shots and eye gouging. Although NOT permitted in tournaments it is still Karate. The misunderstanding here is that you think I'm knocking BJJ.... I'm not. But it is Judo. They may get better at ground work (due to training time) but it is Judo. No guard or armbar or choke was ever invented by the gracies, nor has any set up to those techniques.
JoedirtMike 2 years ago 2
Sorry, while these techniques may exist in Judo, they were reinvented by the BJJ offshoot fo Judo because the BJJers didn't go to the original Judo to find said techniques, in large part because no one teaches them in Judo schools, here or abroad. I would venture to say that Kano invented nothing either. He simply took a systems approach to the art of Japanese Jujitsu. Part of that made it to Brazil where it evolved.
Godsmasher22 2 years ago
Kano didn't invent any moves... i agree. It was a collection of the best of JJ. Maeda who taught the Gracies however was never trained in traditional JJ... Just Judo. Actually at the time that he taught Judo to the Gracies it was still a controversy in Japan and was being referred to as Judo and Kano JJ. I actually think the Gracies were either very smart or lucky because of marketing and media they have built an empire.
JoedirtMike 2 years ago
I actually think that Kano's other great contribution to both Judo and BJJ would be randori, for without it martial arts mysticism erupts. Look at Aikido for instance. The training method is one of the huge keys to the success of both BJJ and Judo
Godsmasher22 2 years ago
In my own research though, the Judo that looks most similar to modern BJJ is what some people refer to as Kosen Judo. Still I haven't seen an x guard, or a spider guard, but I do see a lot of other similarities.
Godsmasher22 2 years ago