Hey there, Your video is great, I like your playing. I was trying to use the NST but , i have fear to break the first and second strings, should i go higher on those strings or lower, ? thanks a lot
@Silverspring777 You know, if you're tuning CGDAEG, you'll be changing string gauges too. But the G on the high end is easily doable with a typical .008.
I'm working with AFT, but into the bass scale starting with low A ( ACGDAe ) or low G (GDAEBf#). The "gdae" spelling shows up in both. I find that with hybrid finger pick & hammer/tap technique that solo & even chord work are very accessible.
My guitar is an archtop, w/ a floating bridge & bigsby bar. For AFT the bridge needs a more acute angle to get the octaves to line up up & down the fretboard.
Straight jazz chromes + single bass flatwound ='s rich sound, nice voicings.
If you want to see the benefits, quit being pussies and tune your god damned guitars to the tuning yourselves! As he said, there are benefits to every tuning. I personally have two guitars: one in standard and one in NST. There are riffs I can play in NST that I can't play in Standard and vice versa. I don't understand how people can trash talk something they haven't even tried.
You can talk about theory all you want, but that's what it is... Theory. Try it yourself and play with it.
I would really need for someone to sit down with me and demonstrate the befits of this tuning, I dont see the problem with standard. Is there any videos up of the seminars where Robert Fripp explained it?
@kiloch There are no benefits. You have more range. That's all. You have to play 4 notes per string if you don't want to change positions. If you don't you move toward the nut while moving up the scale, opposite of standard tuning. In small instruments it's not a problem, but with large instruments like the guitar it's somewhat problematic. for arpeggios, anything more than simple 1-3-5 shapes are almost impossible to play. The notes are just too spread out.
@devolve42 Fire away. But I have to warn you. As a holder of a degree in music performance from University of Massachusetts, and as a current graduate student In the New England Conservatory of Music Jazz program, I'm pretty sure I know where my elbow is. So, if you think you can take this on, just go ahead.
@kiloch Mainly, look at the mandolin family lore for how it works... For example, mandocello is the lower 4 strings of NST. Cittern is the lower 5 strings. Octave Mandolin is strings 5, 4, 3, and 2 of NST.
These articles may give you some idea of how the tuning works for you:
jazzmando (dotcom) /tips/archives/001408.shtml "Fifths, Symmetry and You: Perceptual Economy"
jazzCittern (dotcom) /modeexplorertools/outfitters/ citternlessons.aspx "Cittern: The Instrument of the Future"
@grov6land Arpeggios in themselves are so elegantly laid-out in fifths tuning, you might feel like you're cheating. For example, a Cma7 arpeggio (root 3 5 7) might be fingered as a simple box 5-9 (fifth string) 5-9 (fourth string). A Cm7 arpeggio (root b3 5 b7) might be 5-8 (fifth string) 5-8 (fourth string). A C7(b5) might be 5-9 (fifth string) 4-8.
But the best thing is, everything you find on any pair of string can be played on the next pair, two frets over. So, there are no surprises.
@grov6land The advantages of fifths tuning (and therefore, NST) are best realized when improvising, I think, especially over changes. This is because the tuning is consistently the circle of fifths. By the same token, a consistent fourths tuning would yield a lot of benefits in this area, but the symmetry gets a little obscured traversing over three strings rather than two.
@grov6land There are advantages to all systems of tuning. Some are better suited for tight voicings, others are better for open strings, and others are better for improvising over rapid changes. Some suit smaller hands better than larger, some work better than others at various scale lengths. Some are favored because of the investment of time and effort in mastering them, others because the body of compositions that support them, or the idioms that require them.
@grov6land Tuning in consistent fourth will save a lot of time since the fingering will be consistent in the melodic work(solos). On the other hand, it'll complicate the chord positions and we have to remember that guitarists don't often get paid for showing off but for playing rhythm and arrangements. I hate the wankers who solo for 10 minutes and can't even hold the rhythm for you.
@swingmanu I think you'll be surprise about the chords! Of course the voicings are different, but they are actually simpler... at least by my way of thinking. I might be so bold as to point you to jazzcittern (dot) com/modeexplorerweb/home/lessons/mandolin/chords.aspx to get some ideas? Though this is a mandolin method, the same applies to 86% of NST.
Hey there, Your video is great, I like your playing. I was trying to use the NST but , i have fear to break the first and second strings, should i go higher on those strings or lower, ? thanks a lot
Silverspring777 1 month ago
@Silverspring777 You know, if you're tuning CGDAEG, you'll be changing string gauges too. But the G on the high end is easily doable with a typical .008.
grov6land 1 week ago
I'm working with AFT, but into the bass scale starting with low A ( ACGDAe ) or low G (GDAEBf#). The "gdae" spelling shows up in both. I find that with hybrid finger pick & hammer/tap technique that solo & even chord work are very accessible.
My guitar is an archtop, w/ a floating bridge & bigsby bar. For AFT the bridge needs a more acute angle to get the octaves to line up up & down the fretboard.
Straight jazz chromes + single bass flatwound ='s rich sound, nice voicings.
dodecapusrex 3 months ago
Excellent playing. Some info on your string gauge?
diabeticmonkey 4 months ago
@diabeticmonkey Thanks! On this guitar I use .052 .040 026 .015 .009 .008.
grov6land 3 months ago
If you want to see the benefits, quit being pussies and tune your god damned guitars to the tuning yourselves! As he said, there are benefits to every tuning. I personally have two guitars: one in standard and one in NST. There are riffs I can play in NST that I can't play in Standard and vice versa. I don't understand how people can trash talk something they haven't even tried.
You can talk about theory all you want, but that's what it is... Theory. Try it yourself and play with it.
briel 6 months ago
What gauges do you use for each string?
PaulGilbert60sMind 10 months ago
I would really need for someone to sit down with me and demonstrate the befits of this tuning, I dont see the problem with standard. Is there any videos up of the seminars where Robert Fripp explained it?
kiloch 11 months ago
@kiloch There are no benefits. You have more range. That's all. You have to play 4 notes per string if you don't want to change positions. If you don't you move toward the nut while moving up the scale, opposite of standard tuning. In small instruments it's not a problem, but with large instruments like the guitar it's somewhat problematic. for arpeggios, anything more than simple 1-3-5 shapes are almost impossible to play. The notes are just too spread out.
UncleTito72 11 months ago
@UncleTito72 (There are no benefits. You have more range. That's all.) Guess how I can tell you don't know your ass from your elbow.
devolve42 10 months ago
@devolve42 Fire away. But I have to warn you. As a holder of a degree in music performance from University of Massachusetts, and as a current graduate student In the New England Conservatory of Music Jazz program, I'm pretty sure I know where my elbow is. So, if you think you can take this on, just go ahead.
UncleTito72 10 months ago 3
@UncleTito72 If you look closely, you can even see the elbow right there in the video! I don't know what this guy is talking about.
darkalleyheroes 8 months ago
@kiloch Mainly, look at the mandolin family lore for how it works... For example, mandocello is the lower 4 strings of NST. Cittern is the lower 5 strings. Octave Mandolin is strings 5, 4, 3, and 2 of NST.
These articles may give you some idea of how the tuning works for you:
jazzmando (dotcom) /tips/archives/001408.shtml "Fifths, Symmetry and You: Perceptual Economy"
jazzCittern (dotcom) /modeexplorertools/outfitters/ citternlessons.aspx "Cittern: The Instrument of the Future"
grov6land 7 months ago
@grov6land Arpeggios in themselves are so elegantly laid-out in fifths tuning, you might feel like you're cheating. For example, a Cma7 arpeggio (root 3 5 7) might be fingered as a simple box 5-9 (fifth string) 5-9 (fourth string). A Cm7 arpeggio (root b3 5 b7) might be 5-8 (fifth string) 5-8 (fourth string). A C7(b5) might be 5-9 (fifth string) 4-8.
But the best thing is, everything you find on any pair of string can be played on the next pair, two frets over. So, there are no surprises.
grov6land 7 months ago
@grov6land The advantages of fifths tuning (and therefore, NST) are best realized when improvising, I think, especially over changes. This is because the tuning is consistently the circle of fifths. By the same token, a consistent fourths tuning would yield a lot of benefits in this area, but the symmetry gets a little obscured traversing over three strings rather than two.
grov6land 7 months ago
@grov6land There are advantages to all systems of tuning. Some are better suited for tight voicings, others are better for open strings, and others are better for improvising over rapid changes. Some suit smaller hands better than larger, some work better than others at various scale lengths. Some are favored because of the investment of time and effort in mastering them, others because the body of compositions that support them, or the idioms that require them.
grov6land 7 months ago
@grov6land Choose the best tool for the job.
grov6land 7 months ago
@grov6land Tuning in consistent fourth will save a lot of time since the fingering will be consistent in the melodic work(solos). On the other hand, it'll complicate the chord positions and we have to remember that guitarists don't often get paid for showing off but for playing rhythm and arrangements. I hate the wankers who solo for 10 minutes and can't even hold the rhythm for you.
swingmanu 4 months ago
@swingmanu I think you'll be surprise about the chords! Of course the voicings are different, but they are actually simpler... at least by my way of thinking. I might be so bold as to point you to jazzcittern (dot) com/modeexplorerweb/home/lessons/mandolin/chords.aspx to get some ideas? Though this is a mandolin method, the same applies to 86% of NST.
grov6land 3 months ago
@grov6land thanks a lot, I'll take a look.
swingmanu 3 months ago
tuning in fifths is the easy choice for the violin player who wants to solo on guitar. Not good for usual chords though!
swingmanu 4 months ago
agreed, excellent fusion!
chriskarrermusik 1 year ago
I wonder if Holdsworth uses this tuning.
Nice fusion!
K.
magirecords2004 1 year ago