Porsche 944 Turbo vs 2009 Corvette LS3

[zestydude87]

been meaning to ask you, whats the horsepower on your 944? Have you had it on a dyno?

[Piperporsche180944]

@zestydude87

I had it on the dyno with the wastegate unbolted, I will have to get it back on the dyno now that the issue is corrected and lock tight was used.

[StormedbyPizza]

Heyy 944 turbo owners, unfortunately I own the NA 944 (even though I prefer the dash in the pre 85.5, classier :)) and I have been wanting to restore it. On a monthly basis I race friends of mine, 2010 v6 camaros, audi a3 (250 hp), and thanks to a good start and shifting all they see from my car is its ass off the start, 1 and second gear; but after that my poor 132hp to the wheel just can't do shit. I was wondering how much would it cost to get it up to 220 hp, 250hp, Keeping it NA, or sprcharg

[Piperporsche180944]

@StormedbyPizza

Supercharging kit is $3,800 I believe, 250hp just wont happen with the 2.5L NA. Buy one of my 944 Turbos ;)

[SilentDiablo]

@Piperporsche180944 I agree. Stepping into a Turbo is a whole nother ball game from the get go. From stock to every modification after is unquestionably way better.

[thinkpad411]

This to a lesser extent reminds me of the infamous "Supra from hell vs Lambo" vid...

[camirocz]

Relax guys a stock 944 turob is a mid 14 second car lets not get overly excited here.This guy is all out modified,there are vegas with 427 s in them runing 8 seconds but which car would you rather drive?

[Piperporsche180944]

@camirocz

Modified out? Running 15lbs? I suppose if I turned the boost up to 25lbs you could say I have full bolt ons with high boost. The long block in this car is 100% stock meaning its a simple bolt on car.

[toddk911]

@camirocz All out to 2.8 whopping liters. lol  vs how many liters is the Vette?? ;)

[Piperporsche180944]

@toddk911

This is the 2.5L ;)

The Vette is a 6.2L

[JttM199]

how much money you put into your 944 turbo to get it like this?

[Piperporsche180944]

@JttM199 LR MAF Kit LR Hard Pipes Power Perfect Piggyback 3.0 BAR FPR 55# Injectors LR Dual Port Wastegate w/MBC 3" Exhaust LR Super 61 Turbocharger WBO2 Plus install. Lets just say the car is for sale for less than I have in cold hard mods. Plus Im getting new Koni's and a new Spec Stage 3 Clutch installed to run 22lbs of boost.

[neonman1604]

i know that 944turbos are fast but i didnt know this fucking fast

IT JUST ATE THAT CORVETTE!

[Piperporsche180944]

@neonman1604

With modifications 944 Turbo's can be very fast.

[ZentRose]

thats cool man! I'm waiting for my rogue A-tune in the mail for my 89. When I had my Z28 I never got beat by a 951, I wish I had run into you haha. I LOVE my 89 though, I never really loved the camaro. I will get some vids of the a tune posted when it comes in! I got two go-pros now so it should be great!

[Piperporsche180944]

@ZentRose

Rogue tunes are the best, I am contemplating a standalone, Vitesse MAF or a Rogue set up. Was your Z28 a LS1? I have a few videos racing a 1998 Camaro, some from when we were mostly stock and some when I had the mods in this video and he had a turbo. Is your 89 a NA?

[ZentRose]

@Piperporsche180944 Yeah I had the ls1 camaro, I put a cam in it and it was fairly fast. I also put the koni/ strano suspension stuff on to make it handle well. It was a fun car. I saw those vids, pretty sweet! The 89 I have is a turbo. Its a fun car so far, but it needs more power. Thats where rogue comes in, then in the future Ill get a tial and mbc and turn up the boost. For now I'm just going to have a boost enhancer on there.

[Piperporsche180944]

@ZentRose

I have modified a lot of these cars. If I was you Id get a Lindsey Racing Dual Port Wastegate, Manual boost control, and a 3.0 BAR Fuel pressure regulator. You will see great gains from those modifications. Next Id do a 3" exhaust. Any custom exhaust shop can make you one for $300ish dollars.

[ZentRose]

@Piperporsche180944 Sweet, already got the FPR since its required with the rogue tune. Those other mods are on my list too! Any reason you chose lindsey over the tial wastegate?

In your opinion is a test pipe not worth it with stock exhaust?

[neonman1604]

944 turbo is a legend

[myerholtz11]

Piperporsche........ Yes, I am a Porsche 931 owner. I appreciate what u do on youtube. Keep it up. I admire what u do. Screw all these negative comments and keep showing us Porsche nuts the W.

[ces2391]

How much horsepower is the 944 pushing?

[carbongecko]

amazing 944ts, i have a 1986 951 withthose exact same mods on mine, with the LR 3" full exhaust and the stage V intercooler with LR hard pipes, running the stock turbo @ 16.4 psi man i wish i had a dyno near me to see what mine puts out, yours is at what 300+?

[Marc99GT]

Corvette LS3 A6 A&A Si S/C at Dallas Raceway

watch?v=4EVRPh6PLNg

13 psi and in the 9s on the stock shortblock and heads. Scary how stock looking that car is to be able to run 9s.

[Marc99GT]

ST Motorsports 2011 Mustang 5.0, automatic, with the 2.8 Liquid cooled Kenne Bell supercharger. BFG drag radials, aftermarket wheels, roll bar and required safety equipment, everything else stock! Car runs a 10.664 @ 133.62 MPH with 11 psi of boost.

watch?v=4leIg0Ng5aI&playnext=1­&list=PLFF165CF945F6D427

11 psi through a stock automatic on 93 octane. This is why I prefer V8s. 11 psi is barely stressing the poweradder at all and it is still in the 10s.

[Piperporsche180944]

@Marc99GT

Superchargers can add displacement to a engine if it is a positive displacement supercharger, Im sure you knew that. Those cars are VERY impressive. Naturally, the Mustang has pretty high compression, not to mention its a 5.0L, V8, add a turbo or supercharger to the mix and the results will be amazing even at low boost levels.

[Marc99GT]

@Piperporsche180944 True! I drag raced a 99 GT, thus the name, for years and Muscle Mustangs & Fast Fords were kind enough to do an article on my car back in 04/02. It was supercharged, with a centrifugal type(Vortech V2 S-trim) and then turbocharged with a T-76. With the turbo, the car was downright violent even at 12-14 psi. It would spin the 315/35 Nitto drag radials at anything below 50 mph. It not only is a 5.0 liter, but the heads flow over 320 cfm at .500 lift so the CFM is crazy.

[Marc99GT]

@Piperporsche180944 The Grand National was not as easy to make as fast because the heads only flowed somwhere in the low 160s cfm. After I had them ported and polished and the intake port matched, they flowed in the low 220s cfm, the car was totally different at the same boost level.

[Marc99GT]

At 15 psi, you have effectively doubled the NA displacement of the engine so it is no longer consuming air/fuel like a 2.5L by a longshot. So it always looks funny to me when I see the displacement posted with forced induction because it is an inaccurate display of what is actually happening when compared to a NA engine.

My 87 GN(see in my channel) did alot of damage to cars also with a turbocharged V6 that was 20 years old at the time. Talk about a fast car from the 80s.

[Piperporsche180944]

@Marc99GT

At 15lbs I have not added any displacement to the engine. A turbocharged, supercharged, nos'ed, and naturally aspirated car all consume air differently. Displacement means everything with a forced induction vehicle, at 15lbs fed to a 3.0L would net me nearly 400rwhp. I dont see any uploads of a GN mate.

[Marc99GT]

@Piperporsche180944 Please don't attempt to explain this to me. I have explained to you how forced induction effectively changes the displacement not physically, which is a fact. Feel free to go read about it online or in a book. I don't have uploads of my GN since YT wasn't even around when I sold the car. There is a picture on my channel of me sitting in it since I have plenty of picturers. The problem is you are comparing an engine with FI vs a NA engine and it is not correct.

[Piperporsche180944]

@Marc99GT

You are saying displacement has no effect on hp in a turbocharged car?!? That is so foolish. Essentially your saying a 2.0L turbo honda at 15lbs should make as much power as a 7.0L C6 Z06 at 15lbs. Read the book your telling me about please....

Here in this video we are comparing a 2.5L 4 cylinder with 8:1 compression, turbocharged vs a NA 6.2L V8.

[Marc99GT]

@Piperporsche180944 Stop attempting to put words in my mouth. I didn't anything should do anything. All that I am saying is that you can't just say a 2.5L Turbo vs 6.2L V8 N/A is that simple of a comparison for the reason I have stated. PSI is resistance to flow and it is the CFM that matters. Go read adiabatic efficiency charts and you will get a better understanding of what I am talking about.

Your 2.5L with 8:1 compression is also making 15 psi over and above the 14.7 of Atmos. pressure.

[Marc99GT]

@Piperporsche180944 Show me where I said displacement has no effect. All that I said was that at 15 psi takes whatever NA displacement there is and effectively doubles it at that boost level which is a fact. You can attempt to twist it any way that it will make sense to you, but that is what is happening.

You can't just say 15 psi is 15 psi because it is the CFM that matters. If you replaced your 61-1 with GT35R, it would make more power, but A/R housings, exhaust wheels, etc make a diff.

[Piperporsche180944]

@Marc99GT

Read your comments, come on now. This is not debate class. It is fair to compare NA engines to supercharged, turbocharged, and nos'ed engines. I know all about turbo systems, efficiencies, volume, cfm, etc. Thanks for you insight.

[Marc99GT]

@Piperporsche180944 You obviously didn't know that at 15 psi, you have effectively doubled the displacement so you are lacking some knowledge regarding forced induction. My comment was to counteract your statement comparing a 2.5L Turbocharged to the engines you listed because that is not a simple comparison. An engine that consumes air/fuel like a 10-liter is technically no longer a 2.5 liter unless it is still NA was the point. NOS is a company BTW, N2O is what you are describing.

[Piperporsche180944]

@Marc99GT

Oh boy...

NOS: Referring to Nitrous Oxide (N2O).

Atmospheric pressure is 14.7lbs which registers as 0lbs on a boost gauge, correct? Yes. The turbocharger supplies 15lbs of pressure therefore I have effectively doubled the air the engine can consume, thus more oxygen is fed to the engine. Larger injectors have been fitted, thus more fuel is being burned.

Redneck Math: More Air+More Fuel=More Power

Guess what, it is still a 2.5L 4 banger no matter how it consumes air.

[yellow08vette]

In this race I was in auto thinking I would walk all over him. We've raced since and in manual mode I pull two cars on him. And from a stop I also pull two cars. This is a very fast car considering it from the 80s

[lic8me2]

Hey Piperpooch, here's some stats that says you're a pretender Curb Wt 944: 3,115 lbs Vette: 3217 lbs HP &Torque 944 : 217 hp ; 243 lb.-ft. LS3 Vette: 430 HP/ 424 lb.-ft. HP/Wt 944 : .07 Vette: .13 0-60mph 944 : 6.0s, 5.5s (1989) LS3 Vette: 4.3s 0-1/4 mile 944: 13.5s (1989 model) LS3 Vette: 11.7s @125 mph Top Speed 944: 155 mph, 162mph (1989) LS3 Vette: 198 mph Source: 944 - Porche Club of America Vette - Chevy Let's see a REAL race pretender

[Piperporsche180944]

@lic8me2

Good one! Seems like you navigate Google quite well, why cant you navigate Youtube equally as well? There is a piece of literature called a "Video Description", click "Show More". Believe it or not I state quite clearly that my little 4 cylinder is not stock. Use that feature before you make a fool of yourself on other peoples videos.

Note: Weight at Martin Raceway with me in the car was 3,050lbs. A+ for effort fan boy. ;)

[SilvrVetteC6]

You failed to address the question - LETS SEE SOMETHING OTHER THAN A 4 SEC BLIP. And choose someone who wants to beat your ass. Lastly - the 944 spools nicely @ 40 mph - it's your sweet-spot for acceleration (yeah - I know). I get wannabes like you wanting to street race all the time - why should I risk a ticket for your punk ass? You aren't "racing" and these vids prove squat. You are selectively putting out vids to massage your ego and cover up some other inadaquacies in your life

[Piperporsche180944]

@SilvrVetteC6

I race who ever wants to race for fun, thats what its all about kid. Id say come beat me in your silver C6 but odds are its daddies car and your just a little fan boy. Lets be real, you would have videos of your car if you owned a C6, and no, the Cavalier in your driveway is not a Corvette. Have a good day fan boy.

[SilvrVetteC6]

You managed a car-length on a regularly-aspirated, base model, stock C6 ... BFD. I noticed that you weren't pulling on him - you beat him in the initial acceleration. Show us how you do against a Z06 or a regular C6 with a turbo ... and I'll be impressed. The base vette goes for around $55K - how much did you (or your daddy) pay for your nazi-wagon?

[Piperporsche180944]

@SilvrVetteC6

Based on your comment I can assume you are a pretty smart fan boy, so riddle me this. Are these even races?

2.5L 4cyl Turbo vs 6.2L V8 LS3 Corvette ($35,000)

2.5L 4cyl Turbo vs LS1 5.7L V8 Camaro Turbo ($10,000 See My Video)

2.5L 4cyl Turbo vs LS2 6.0L V8 Corvette ($30,000)

2.5L 4cyl Turbo vs LS6 5.7L V8 Corvette Z06 ($25,000)

2.5L 4cyl Turbo vs LS7 7.0L V8 Corvette Z06 ($70,000)

Slap a turbo on them and you will be impressed that my $10,000 Porsche beats them? Come on now.

[porsche952]

@SilvrVetteC6 Right so slap a $5000-$7000 turbo kit on a $40K car just to beat a my $6000 4 banger. sounds fair

[mrdragking13]

Nice, most lsx owners are so cocky but I love it when a euro smashes on a v8, most will cry some will get over it, piper your car is sick and that's all that matters, time to smoke maby some gt3's?

[Piperporsche180944]

@mrdragking13

Thanks! Im turning up the boost to 22lbs this summer as I have lined up some sprints against a Ford GT, CTS-V, 996 Twin Turbo and a few other nice cars.

[irken8313]

Wow............ lol

[snowman44077]

Sorry to all about the anti Porsche comment. IRKEN8313 schooled me in how you can't have an opinion without someone crying. A guy today told me he didn't like my tie. I felt bad for him because he didn't have the balls to wear a tie like this. Case in point, don't get personal, don't cry, and just relax. Sheesh, I'm going to delete my string of replys after this. IRKEN8313, you win my friend. Now, make a second video for your channel with your prize.

[Piperporsche180944]

@snowman44077

Haha, veryone is entitled to their opinion.

[snowman44077]

@Piperporsche180944 Thanks for being a man about the comment. You have a great car that whooped a legend, and I respect that. Thanks for being the man here.

[Piperporsche180944]

@snowman44077

No problem, thanks Snowman. :)

[irken8313]

@snowman44077 Looks better than your truck........

[irken8313]

@snowman44077 You're entitled to your own opinion.... I gave mine... ;-)..

"I could take a cheap shot at your car, but the only video you have is one about someone else trolling! What do you drive? Post a vid of it and be a real YouTuber before flaming other people."

Oh yes, trolling... everyone that doesn't agree with you is a troll!!!... lol... Having random/pointless vids up doesn't give you moral high ground on commenting...

[irken8313]

@snowman44077 Oh yes.... because I don't have vids up I'm a troll!!! Everyone here is entitled to an opinion... I gave mine ;-).... Having pointless vids up in a profile doesn't give you the high ground on commenting...

[irken8313]

@snowman44077 You went out of your way to call the guy's car bland... lol... You already did take a cheap shot at one of the cars I drive.. ;-) I only gave my opinion.... I didn't call your truck bland or anything else I could have called it...

[Piperporsche180944]

@irken8313 @snowman44077

Come on now guys, get along. Some one can tell me my car is a ugly pos and it wouldn't bug me one bit, especially when their car cant keep up. If the car makes me happy that's all that matters.

[irken8313]

@Piperporsche180944 True....... lol

[snowman44077]

@Piperporsche180944 Amen brother. Some people are too sensitive.

[snowman44077]

@Piperporsche180944 Amen brother. Some people are too sensitive. IRKEN8313 sure does get touchy when someone don't like his Porsche. And to MarkaRoxx, sorry I didn't proof read.

[MarkaRoxx]

@snowman44077 Don't talk about what you can't spell.

[vpbAdmonkey]

rent a car driver cant drive.....

[Piperporsche180944]

@vpbAdmonkey

The OWNER can drive just fine, with Jimmy Johnson driving the turnout wouldnt have been any different. The 944 Turbo was running low boost and could have cranked it up quite a bit to put a lot more space between the cars.

[Piperporsche180944]

@vpbAdmonkey fuck u its not a rent a car ass

[944911928]

My dad has a LS3 corvette and 88 porsche 944 turbo and his vette eats it everyday so its obvious your car is not stock

[Piperporsche180944]

@944911928

Did I say my car was stock? Look at the video description. 

[TheHevquip]

hey what motor are you running, the 2.5 still? do you have threads documenting this build on rennlist? i'm getting another 951 soon and stuck on either modding it a lot or doing a 2.8 or 3.0 turbo build, though i've found two cars for sale with those motor swaps already done and will talk to the owners shortly about the cars...

[Piperporsche180944]

@TheHevquip

It has the stock 2.5L long block. I do not have a thread documenting the build however I could PM you on the build. I'm Piperporsche180944 on Rennlist. If you can, I recommend you buy a built 3.0L. You will be able to buy one for a lot cheaper than it will cost to build one.

[TheHevquip]

@Piperporsche180944 i've found a car with a 2.8 turbo and a car with a 3.0 turbo and trying to get some conversation going with the sellers. if any of that falls through, then i'm thinking of either going cheap car/engine build or low miles car/modding the 2.5 in it.

[Piperporsche180944]

@TheHevquip

If your looking for a cheap 951 thats damn quick this one is available starting at $9,000, I have a few people coming out to look at it but if it doesnt sell Ill keep you informed.

[TheHevquip]

@Piperporsche180944 where are you located and how many miles on the car? i have a car i'm going to see soon, but would be interested if i can't pick up one of the few i've got in mind and yours is still on hand.

[Piperporsche180944]

@TheHevquip

Ill send you a link to the for sale ad.

[yellow08vette]

My car was originally a hertz rental car. i bought it after they were done with it. they only made 500. And its all stock right now.

[tjnappy]

I'm not sure the Vette took off right away, also Vette started to gain even before the Porsche let off WOT.. LS3 Vette's with just cat back Exhaust, Tune and Intake are easily mid 11's. The Vette prolly thought it was a stock 944 Turbo as they only ran low 14's. Good race.

[Piperporsche180944]

@tjnappy,

He did take off right away, I brake boosted so I had peak torque right from 40mph. Theres no doubt in my mind that this Corvette would run 11's in the 1/4. A stock non S 944 Turbo (217bhp) is good for a 14.1s, however the 247bhp variant 944 Turbo S was able to achieve a 13.5. This 951 has quite a few bolt on's.

[tjnappy]

@Piperporsche180944 That LS3 in the Video is a Hertz Rental model, which was not Rented with Exhaust, Tune & Intake... Also, didn't U post in Pelican Parts 'He clarified that his Corvette was a Stock LS3'? Well,even if Stock, an LS3 Vette is low 12's, more then a full sec. quicker then a 944 TS, so I doubt 4 extra #'s of Boost would pull a Vette like that. Something's not right here... Finally, the stock LS3 Vette high speed is 190mph vs 162, so the Vette would of won top-end anyway.

[Piperporsche180944]

@tjnappy

This particular Corvette isnt the LS3 I posted about on Pelican in July, nor a Hertz Rental car, if it was there would have been a rental plate and I wouldn't be cruising with the guy every weekend. Your right, something is not right here, you obviously did not see my modification list. A stock 951 or 951S would get dusted by this Corvette.

[tjnappy]

@Piperporsche180944 Yes it is. That Corvette in the Video mirrors EXACTLY the Hertz rental model. All the way down to the ZHZ (For Hertz only) badging on the fender. Do a Google image search on ZHZ Hertz rental and see for yourself. Oh, the HERTZ rentals were only avail in Yellow too. Rentals aren't modded, becuase if that one was as written the 944 -T wouldn't of pulled like that.

[Piperporsche180944]

@tjnappy

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I talked to Eric about it. Lol. He said it used to be a rental car in its previous life. The 944 was only at 15lbs there, Id love to see what it does at 20lbs, or 24lbs.

[tjnappy]

@Piperporsche180944 The same old thing... The garden variety 'stock' Block can safely handle up to 5psi increase. Any more then that risks engine damage. Build the Block up first.

[Piperporsche180944]

@tjnappy

My mechanics 951 (stock long block other than ARP Head Studs, Lindsey Racing Stage 2 Head) has been handling 25-30lbs of boost just fine running e85. The car is a beast. I could run 20lbs safely now.

[Piperporsche180944]

@tjnappy

Also he was the one that honked

[jeremyl64]

@tjnappy

lol wtf? even the owner of the vette said "this makes me look bad, lets go from a dig". he didnt say that he didnt take off right away, or anything like that. do you just come on youtube to start crap? porsche wasnt stock. neither is the vette. vette would have had him at higher speeds. porsche had him from 40-100 ish.

[jeremyl64]

lol the randy did have the vette. at first... but its fair to say the vette was comin back! lets get a 3way race this weekend! sound good 08 vette?

[Piperporsche180944]

@jeremyl64

We will do more sprints in the future ;)

[fffffaaaaaaaarrttttt]

very impressive

[toddk911]

944 turbo proving again.....V8 killer! Nice looking Vette though!

[Piperporsche180944]

@toddk911

I just put realized who you were on Rennlist. Id sure like to see your 951 in action!

[yellow08vette]

That race makes me look bad. We need to start from a dead stop. Your building all that boost at 40mph.

[toddk911]

@yellow08vette yea, brake boosting is the equalizer to all that instant tq the vette has.

[Piperporsche180944]

@yellow08vette

Sounds great to me, I have a perfect place to go from a dig. If your free this weekend lets do it!

[yellow08vette]

@Piperporsche180944 let me see how busy i get. but sounds good to me.

[Piperporsche180944]

@yellow08vette

Awesome, have you ever took that car to the strip? If so, what did you run?

[nsaneon]

Looks like a Hertz Rental - dude obviously didn't have his heart into it :)

[Piperporsche180944]

@nsaneon

Definitely not Hertz, that car is sick! 

[boogerchamp]

Nice!!!

[Coolbri1191]

holy shit!

[Piperporsche180944]

@Coolbri1191

It was definitely a good quality kill, I couldnt believe I beat a 440ci Vette!

[jeremyl64]

dude thats bad ass! i want to race him!  sweet lookin vette.