@El7Cantante7 I tried putting a few audio samples in some of the early anomalies videos (Fernando, Money Money Money, plus some OOPS tracks) but YT either compressed the sound so it didn't show up the anomalies very much, or the videos didn't prove all that popular. You are best to listen for yourself.
(Cont'd again) The problems become evident with the MAG and even more so with Astley/Jonsson's, since they're more and more compressed. I think with this (and the hiss issue) I was making the point that at that time everything in the digital garden was supposed to be lovely. In fact that was not true. From the recording and the replay p.o.v.
(con'd) The width of the tape has a huge bearing on distortion, but even cassette tape can be pushed. The first signs of distortion are a little treble harshness. The minute you hit the digital red line you start to hear the clipping and that is a big no no. We know (from CMP) that Tretow found the digital learning curve a bit steep, and not entirely to his liking. Besides it's all a bit arbitrary, since the Polydor first edition on CD is great sounding, as is the record.
I agree, MozP, but there is no denying that this particular recording suffers from the limiting at the points I have mentioned. I had to edit my video quite a lot, but I think I mentioned 1:11 (and similar point in chorus 2), where the snare sounds terrible, and that is due to heavy compression/limiting. Regarding analogue overloading - provided engineers knew the limits of the brand of tape, and the machine, recordings could go way into the red.
Even with digital recording, ABBA would have still needed to use compression, as after all they were making pop music and not a Bruckner Symphony! So some compression was needed to "tighten up" the music, especially for pop music.
I don't think that Tretow was too afraid regarding limiting in digital, as The Visitors (title track) is very very very dynamic, and so I would say that what Tretow did on HOH was intended - this is also taking into account that the waveform could have easily accommodated the increase in volume had Tretow chosen to do that.
In regards to limiting, both digital and analogue do suffer when recorded at too high volume. With analogue, its a rather a "hit or miss" affair, as some analogue systems may cope with over limiting, while others may really distort. Particularly with analogue, the engineer had to make sure that the signal was loud enough so that the hiss would not over power the music, but soft enough so it doesnt distort.
At least with digital there is a well defined point of over -limiting, instead of trying to use guess work with analogue, even more so as the noise floor for digital is far far less than with analogue.
Now completely aside from all of this, listen to HOH backwards, as bizarre as that may seem! Very interesting chord progressions and melodies. It sounds like a mad scene from a musical!
it would be good if there were sound samples of what you are talking about.
El7Cantante7 9 months ago
@El7Cantante7 I tried putting a few audio samples in some of the early anomalies videos (Fernando, Money Money Money, plus some OOPS tracks) but YT either compressed the sound so it didn't show up the anomalies very much, or the videos didn't prove all that popular. You are best to listen for yourself.
MarkPMus 9 months ago
(Cont'd again) The problems become evident with the MAG and even more so with Astley/Jonsson's, since they're more and more compressed. I think with this (and the hiss issue) I was making the point that at that time everything in the digital garden was supposed to be lovely. In fact that was not true. From the recording and the replay p.o.v.
MarkPMus 2 years ago
(con'd) The width of the tape has a huge bearing on distortion, but even cassette tape can be pushed. The first signs of distortion are a little treble harshness. The minute you hit the digital red line you start to hear the clipping and that is a big no no. We know (from CMP) that Tretow found the digital learning curve a bit steep, and not entirely to his liking. Besides it's all a bit arbitrary, since the Polydor first edition on CD is great sounding, as is the record.
MarkPMus 2 years ago
I agree, MozP, but there is no denying that this particular recording suffers from the limiting at the points I have mentioned. I had to edit my video quite a lot, but I think I mentioned 1:11 (and similar point in chorus 2), where the snare sounds terrible, and that is due to heavy compression/limiting. Regarding analogue overloading - provided engineers knew the limits of the brand of tape, and the machine, recordings could go way into the red.
MarkPMus 2 years ago
As usual an informative video! HOH is a song full of sonic delights, I get so much musical pleasure each time I listen to it.
But must rebuttal at the "dynamic range" comment, especially since you mentioned my name!!!
mozpiano2 2 years ago
Even with digital recording, ABBA would have still needed to use compression, as after all they were making pop music and not a Bruckner Symphony! So some compression was needed to "tighten up" the music, especially for pop music.
mozpiano2 2 years ago
I don't think that Tretow was too afraid regarding limiting in digital, as The Visitors (title track) is very very very dynamic, and so I would say that what Tretow did on HOH was intended - this is also taking into account that the waveform could have easily accommodated the increase in volume had Tretow chosen to do that.
mozpiano2 2 years ago
In regards to limiting, both digital and analogue do suffer when recorded at too high volume. With analogue, its a rather a "hit or miss" affair, as some analogue systems may cope with over limiting, while others may really distort. Particularly with analogue, the engineer had to make sure that the signal was loud enough so that the hiss would not over power the music, but soft enough so it doesnt distort.
mozpiano2 2 years ago
At least with digital there is a well defined point of over -limiting, instead of trying to use guess work with analogue, even more so as the noise floor for digital is far far less than with analogue.
Now completely aside from all of this, listen to HOH backwards, as bizarre as that may seem! Very interesting chord progressions and melodies. It sounds like a mad scene from a musical!
mozpiano2 2 years ago