Uvic Abortion Debate Oct 21st '09 Part 4 of 10

[knarledknuckles]

It is intellectual dishonesty to state that early Christians did not object to abortion as did Dr. Kluge. He is the one who brought religion into the debate to prop up his argument. In point of fact, The Didache 70AD stated "The second commandment of the teaching: You shall not murder... You shall not procure an abortion, nor destroy a newborn child" Tertullian, an early Christian writer, called for strict penalties for abortion. Objective truth exists; without it there can be no justice.

[wood9670]

It matters because most people are not atheist and recognize all rights (duties & obligations to others) are ultimately grounded in a transcendent source.

For those who are xtian it is quite rational to assume that their consciences are shaped by the values & ethics expounded by that worldview.

To say they ought to keep their faith private is like saying they ought to live their lives as if it weren't true.

Approach us using our moral standards if you want abortion to remain legal.

[Brooks148]

Yes, but in a society like Canada, these transcendent sources do not always coincide which is why ethics are based on empirical evidence. Not non-demonstrable transcendent sources.

Yes, people who are xtian may think that is rational. However, that does not make it rational. People such as schizophrenics believe their worldview is rational, but it is clearly not.

[Brooks148]

I said that faith is personal, not private. I would never try to take away a persons right to express their beliefs. Again, believing something, even by a large population, isn't enough to allow that something to govern the lives of people who don't believe unless it can demonstrate a reason.

We are not approaching you, It's the pro-life movement that is attempting to take away a rational human right. You guys need to approach us with proper ethical standards if you want to challenge our rights

[knarledknuckles]

Dr. Kluge is propagating myths. In the 5th c rejection of abortion at every stage was affirmed by St. Augustine. He knew of theories about the human soul not being present until some weeks into pregnancy. But he also held that knowledge of biology was very limited; warned against misusing such theories to risk committing homicide. He added God has the power to make up all lack of development; we cannot assume the earliest aborted children will be excluded from enjoying eternal life with God.

[Brooks148]

It's surely possible that Dr. Kluge is wrong in regards to religious history. However, it doesn't matter too much since religion and faith is personal, and has no place trying to govern the rights or other people, let alone the ethics or laws surrounding abortion.