The trumpets in here sound kind of nasally and almost synthesized, but its still overall good. I think Wilhelm Furtwanglers version is still the greatest.
Came in for a wee listen to Wagner and yet again find Nazis, Jews and even a new one for me , abortion - why can't you people bugger off to political argument rooms and leave the music alone!
Came in for a wee listen to Wagner and yet again find Nazis, Jews and even a new one for me , abortion - why can't you people bugger off to political argument rooms and leave the music alone!
1. Furtwangler: Siegfried's Funeral March from Gotterdammerung SLOW MOVING?????????? | THE MUSIC IS SO STRONG, LIKE GIVING YOU A MENTAL PUNCH, A SLAP ON THE FACE… YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT HIT YOU! SCORE 9.75 OF 10
2. KLEMPERER - Götterdämmerung, Siegfried's funeral march – WAGNER, SAME SLOW TEMPO. SCORE 9.25 OF 10
3. Richard Wagner - Götterdämmerung - Twilight of the gods, (mitjanus) FASTER, SCORE 9.65 OF 10
I remember watching the telecast in 1990? 1991? We were watching this on a small TV with lots of snow. But still, it just flowed so seamlessly and quickly that the 5+ hours came and went and the next thing we know, it was 1:30 in the morning I and another watcher walked out of our friend's apartment into a quiet morning. I think the scene coming after this part was another 30 minutes itself.
People often take a long time in die in many works of art, be it musical or visual, but only in a Wagner opera would a man take this long to die, AND the fellows who killed him would allow him to sing for so long.
Tagsüber arbeite ich hart um überleben zu können ... und mir Opernkarten leisten zu können :-)
Die Liebe zu Wagner-Opern scheint sich allerdings mit zunehmendem Alter zu verschärfen und ich frage mich, ob ich eine Ring-Entzugskur machen sollte oder mich dem Werk zur Gänze verfallen lassen soll.
Wagner wrote great death scene music. I saw this live in Seattle and the powerful Da Dum of the drums is unforgettable. And now the trumpet praising him, but sadly, with the Da Dum played by whole orchestra.
Poor innocent dangerous cluck, his death always makes me cry. And I cry for Violetta. So the music and performers are doing their work.
I couldn't agree more. That moment with the trumpet is the most tragic of all. I never get through it with a dry eye. I did love this old Met production.
Good old pagan times. I love der Ring des Nibelungen! Its passion is so great, i can fly directly back in time, when our Germanic ancestors were at their purest and best.
Magnifico!! There are no words to describe what a human soul can feel listening to this music...is like taking a dip in the eternal sea of human spirit. Wagner sings the passion, the incredible impact of the living spirit with Being. Yes it was anti-Semitic, but it was against to what a revolutionary nineteenth century man could identify as representatives of capitalism in Europe. I think today he would make no longer ethnic differences of this kind.
I'm jewish, so of course I know of Wagner's antisemitism. Still, it should not be the thing people remember about him. His music is among the greatest ever written, it is deep with passion, meaning and this piece in particular is a pinnacle of artistic achievement. A man who wrote such beautiful music can not have been all bad. I'll agree with Nietzsche and regret Wagner's feverish antisemitism, but aknowlege him to be a musical genius par excellence.
Wagner had beautiful beliefs and brilliant essays. He believed in the bettering of the middle-class, bringing culture to the people, and a blighting of the oligopoly. I am jewish as well, but even in the case of Wagner's political beliefs, they need to be separated also.
Wagner believed that "the Goldman Sach's and Rothschild's", the feudal system and exploitation of the oligopoly was criminal. He believed in a strong middle-class that had access to culture and the better things in society? How is this bad? How is this a bad belief system.
His antisemitism is distasteful...yes. Most of us will agree on this. But was Wagner's antisemitism and anomaly for his time? No! Most high level magnate were antisemitic.
This doesn't pardon Wagner, but it raises the question; was everyone in Europe inherently evil? There are many jews that were even self-loathing and converted; even Mahler converted at the order of Karl Lueger.
His music transcends WAGNER'S belief system. I am not, and I am sure many of you are not (or scared to admit), a believer that you can separate Wagner's music from beliefs.
Wagner wrote his librettos and made a gesamtswerk..so there is no separation of his art or belief system
@Kuner1 Was seine antisem. Äußerungen angeht, so glaube ich: hätte Wagner heute gelebt , er wäre wie viele von uns - hätten viele von uns damals gelebt, wären sie wie Wagner gewesen
concerning Wagner's antisemitic uttering, I believe: would he live now, he would be/talk like most of us, would many of us have lived then, they would have been/talked like him - in many nowadays prosemitic statements I just don't trust...there is still a lot to do about
@Kuner1 yes; being of the same 'extraction' as you, i had some considerations about wagner and thus hesitated to listen in full until now; and now i am touched by the beauty and genius of his music; none of us are perfect :))
@Kuner1 "I'm jewish, so of course I know of Wagner's antisemitism" What does it matter if you're Jewish or not? He was no more antisemitic than other artists/politicians at the time. A Jewish person somehow gets to determine the value of his music vs other people? Dude, you're an idiot. You think public opinion has not been the same or a lot worse in history with many competing religions? If you like the music, fine, but being Jewish in no way adds value to your opinion of Wager's music
What does it matter? In Israel you can not perform Wagner's music publically. And yes, he was far more antisemitic than others during his time.
In no way did I state or suggest that being jewish is relevant to stating an opinion on Wagner's music. I don't know where you read that in my post.
In fact I said quite the opposite: that people should NOT remember him for being an an antisemite and should remember him for his music. Being jewish is relevant to that.
@mcallen83 he was saying that he is jewish and is still able, despite Wagner's antisemitic views/writings, to listen to Wagner's music just like anyone else.
In otherwords, it doesn't matter if he was a manipulative, megalomaniacal, womanising racist, Wagner's music is still good because it's quality has nothing to do with the character of it's composer.
He said nothing about or never implied that he "gets to determine the value of his music vs other people".
Wagner would be twisting in his grave, if he knew how many Jewish Fans he has these days, while German youths prefer HipHop with turkish accent :D
But Vengeance never came to my mind. I was a fan of Wagner's music long before I knew anything about the man or even about me being a jew (first heard this piece when I was 5).
We're not above recognizing genius or giving credit where it is due.
@Kuner1 You are lucky you heard it so young in life. First hearing this piece at maybe age 21, and it having the effect on me it does now, I cannot imagine how extraordinary it must have been at age 5
Nietzsche was a self-hating asshole who thought that the German nation was the most worthless one in the entire universe--after he had voluntered for the Prussian army several times but was rejected. Nietzsche was like a child: as the fatherland didn't need him, he started to hate it. Wagner, however, remained a true German throughout his life. This might not please people like you but that's how it is. And I'm glad about this. Wagner was a true German. And an anti-Semite. And that's not bad.
"Wagner was a true German. And an anti-Semite." Perhaps this is why Nietzsche did not hold Germany in such high regard. Considering the course of History and I would say Nietzsche was proven to be quite right.
Germany was arguably the greatest nation in Europe during their time. What is left of it now? A broken, depressed people with the lowest birth rate in the world. Compare what is today to what could have been, had Germany not destroyed itself in a blaze of hatred.
Nietzsche became anti-German for other reasons. I've pointed them out. He was a patriot in his youth but was "rejected by the fatherland" several times what obviously made him hate Germany in a childish way. And yes, we are about to disappear, but we did what we thought was right, and this was the only reasonable way for us. We wanted a German Germany, without foreign (esp. Jewish) influences. We fought for it. We lost. We have to live and die with the consequences. Heil Wagner!
I'm no friend of multiculturalism, but most Jews killed were not even from Germany, but but lived in Poland and Ukraine. What did that have to do with a "German Germany"?
One can not call Jewish Germans "foreign". Our ancestors lived and even bred together for 1500 years. Jewish blood has been spilt over German soil along with everyone else's.
Like it or not, we are here to stay. And unlike many of you, we will not surrender Germany to Islam without a fight.
There are no "Jewish Germans" but only "Jews in Germany" as both the Jewish and the German people have always defined themselves ethnically. There have undoubtedly been Jewish communities as old as you write but Jewish and German blood were hardly ever mixed. Germans lived with Germans, and Jews lived within their own districts. Most Germans didn't want an alien nation within our borders. Germany was not intended to be a multi-ethnic but a mere German country. And I thought you lived in America?
Of course they are seperate ethnicities, but one can't say they didn't mix, in fact it was periodically quite fashionable. Skin color and features of a formerly middle eastern people don't changed overnight to the look of someone like Freud, Mahler, Spielberg hardly look middle eastern.
I myself am only 25% Jew and 75% German and the Jewish part was Ashkenazi, so already mixed. Does that make me less German than someone from NRW with ie. half polish ancestry?
But you are a citizen of the U.S., aren't you? Why are you talking about surrendering Germany to Islam then? I can assure you that we have already surrendered. Every culture and every nation eventually dies. Germany and Europe are about to enter this natural part of life. That's how life is: cruel and unforgiving any weakness.
I live in Germany, forgive me for not wanting to disclose too much personal info.
Weakness is the cardinal sin of man. True, German youths for the most part are imbeciles, they start drinking at 12, are uneducated and physically weak. But I don't yet subscribe to fatalism, or else I would not be here.
If Sarrazin can sell 1.5 million copies of his book, then there is hope. There will be a pan-European civil war with Islam. Belgium and Sweden will fall, but Germany won't
@Kuner1 I wanted to listen Wagner and accidently found Your conversation. I see taht there is much more tolerance for Jews than for Polish people in Germany. Maybe i'll say few things from my polish perspective. Simply there is no hope for Europe. Whatever Sarazin wrote, there is one thing, that western Europe has not, unlikely easter ( my Poland, Ukraine, Lithuania, Russia, etc. ) - strong devotion to tradition. Our traditional cultural background allows us preserve our culture.
@Kuner1 One example - abortion. Thanks to strong catholic influence on society, recent social research shows that more, and more young people are against "pro choice" ideoloy. This is growing tendency ( in 2010 more people was against abortion, than in 2008 ). In the western Europe, because of reject the tradition, the situation is different.
Sure, join the conversation. I'm not sure I understood you right. How do you experience intolerance against Polish people? I haven't encountered it so far, just curious.
About abortion: it's really a non-issue to me. Of course it's horrible when women have one abortion after another (I actually know one psycho woman who keeps trying to force men to marry her by getting pregnant and now just had her 6th abortion). But on the other hand, I'm sort of glad these people don't breed
@Kuner1 -For reasons of which I am not aware in particular the Nazi hate for Poles was intense It was not so towards oiker East or Central European nations.I'd love to no the reason for this.Also anti semitism was more rampant in the Ukraine then it ever was in Germany.The same could also be said of Austria.The Greeks were also terribly anti semitic and once burnt down all the Jewish institutions in Thessaloniki.I believe there to have been 38 structures mysteriouly set afire at the same time.
The synagogue built in Rhodes under the Romans was later.destroyed by the Greeks Their anti semitism is in their eyes justified for the killing of christ by the Jews Let it be said that not one Jew perished in Bulgaria because of anti semitism,and that Italy assimilated their Jews during those troubled times saving them from death.
part2: While I even agree that abortion is in a way murder, there are cases where it is justified (like when a woman gets pregnant after being raped, or when a fetus shows genetic defects.) It really is a moral grey area.
Tradition does not automatically make things good. It used to be a tradition to burn witches or bury a cat in the foundation of a house to keep out evil spirits. We have some pretty silly traditions :D
@Kuner1 up to now most Germans still have not realized how important jewish cultur and contributions was and would have been for this country's future. I dare to say that a lot of things were better and a lot of problems would not exist if there hadn't been NS time. It was the biggest fault in European countries history to believe in truebred populations. They can only exist with very small societies when isolated >African tribes etc. - and: with the result of stagnation.
Germany would have indeed profited greatly from Jew's academic and economic achievements, which instead took and take place in Israel or America.
Nature favors a wide breeding radius, but it also favors racial distinction. Whether or not a mix works really just depends on the individual ingredients. I'm not opposed to a people wanting to preserve their cultural and genetic heritage, the fixation on Jews after the 19th century came rather later after living together for 1500 years.
wann bekommen viele Wagnerianer und deren gegner endlich die Lüge von Wagner als Deutschdümmler aus den Hirnen....hat keiener von denen zuerst Nietzsche gelesen oder doch und falsch verstanden? Übermensch ist nicht der , der alles kann und darum tut, sondern im Gegenteil der nicht alles was er vermag auch in die Tat umsetzt...dazu bedarf es einer moralisch und ethischen Grösse, die Hagen und Siegfried hier nicht besitzen...deshalb diese Tragödie....eine zutiefst Menschliche.
Certainement le point culminant de la tétralogie au sein de l'oeuvre ultime du ring. La densité dramatique du personnage de Siegfried s'exalte dans cette marche tour à tour terrifante, mélancolique, romantique et héroïque. Edifiante de puissance et de tension, cette traueurmarsch est une des plus belles émotions musicales que j'ai connu...
Amazing! Siegfrieds Tod is certainly a significant point in the Ring cycle. Haven't seen this for year, but it is still familiar, and I love it. Dioch yn fawr am bostio, akár milyen nyelven!
Ich konnte nicht das öffentlich sehen. Ich bin 6 '2" 300 * ütelager als Siegfried bekannter Radfahrer. Ich konnte nicht das durchkommen, ohne meine Ketten einrosten zu lassen.
Le "seigneur des anneaux" est un aimable divertissement a coté de ceci!!
Il y a deux "belles morts " chez Wagner: Siegfried et Isolde...celle ci est moins poignante...mais plus terrifiante et la musique la rend terrifiante!
oui isabelle, mais il ya tout le" décorum "et cette musique qui est très sombre..par rapport à Meier et son chant si doux..mais SVP comparons deux opéras et non pas un opéra et un récital, sinon la comparaison est faussée..
@nanard111 Pardon? Mais je ne compare pas récital et intégrale. Je ne suis pas de ce style. Notons le paradoxe wagnérien de mettre en théme des morts de ces héros des thèmes bien moins triste. Ainsi Brunnhilde fini son immolation sur le thème de la vie.
But i think that the production in Aix en Provence this summer with the Berliner Philharmoniker is just better. The orchestre, the soloist etc. everything was perfect!
Well, I haven´t seen the Wiener or the Met Rings, but I've attended several operas in each. Comparing the Met Orchestra with the Wiener Philharmoniker is just out of question. The VPO is at a different level... in fact it's one of the three best in the world, along with Concertgebouw and BPO. The Met's, being a good orchestra, cannot be compared..
Please load this whole performance! Wonderful! (and for anyone who hasn't seen the current run of the cycle at the Met, you have one last chance this week! Don't miss it! )
how was the singing? i was at the production of rheingold, it was decent but the singers didn't have the power! were you able to hear the singers well at the Met performance? if so i might just come home for a performance.
I was especially impressed with Hagen (Tomlinson) and Brunhilde (Dalayman). Although the orchestra is tremendously powerful in this opera (the biggest I've ever seen in the Met's pit), I didn't feel the singers were overpowered by it at any time.
I stood at the back of the Dress Circle for the second act because my knees have a hard time with the limited legroom of the seating and even there, the sound was excellent.
Of course the magnificent acoustics in the Met didn't hurt at all.
Just saw this production yesterday with Levine conducting. GOOSEBUMPS! I've been to almost 100 operas, including Valkyrie and Sigfried, but this was my first Götterdämmerung. It is in my top 5 faves now.
This is the final season of the current Met production that has been running since the mid-80s. I am looking forward to seeng the new one.
I was there on Saturday as well. Standing room. What a thrill it was. Isn't it great to know that there are other complete strangers out there who share the same inexpressable emotions?
Question: I first heard this piece by itself as an instrumental, rather than an opera (no story behind the music), and I was quite moved by what seems like one of the most amazing climaxes I've ever heard (5:35)...and I don't understand...how...why...this blissful powerful music is accompanied by a dreary funeral and people marching slowly with heads lowered? .
That's a great question! Unfortunately I think the only possible answer is this: you'd have to experience the entire Ring in order to appreciate how stunning and powerful this scene is. Heard in context as the climactic scene of a 16-hour opera which has to do with the downfall of arbitrary power and the triumph of unselfish love, it has a potency and leitmotivic cohesion which almost can't be described. If you get a chance to hear the whole thing, write back and let me know what you think!
Thanks for taking the time to respond! I study music and was quite curious about the implications of having heard a piece of music which in fact is part of a much larger picture, and whether or not I get the same(relative) feeling/impression as those who have seen it all. I will definitely take your advice. Cheers!
Seeing the entire Ring cycle is not a prerequisite for enjoying Götterdämmerung, but I would recommend familiarizing yourself with the backstory of the previous 3 operas before seeing it. No doubt seeing all 4 within a short span of time (as my father just did) will enhance the experience, but don't miss a chance to see any of these masterworks.
I saw Valery Gergiev and the Kirov Opera perform this..........a really great performance. When the trumpet has his solo at 5:18, he stands up and plays facing the audience. I've never seen this before or since and it was extremely effective.
At the last concert the Berlin Phil. gave, when the Russians really were at the gates, this was among the pieces played. As the audience left they were met by members of the SS holding baskets of cyanide capsules. Even Wagner couldn't have thought of that.
I am alone when it comes to Wagner. Nobody I know would listen to Wagner with me or go to any live performance of his works. I wonder, is this also your experience?
Man oh Man.....i too love Levine conducting The MET doing Wagner's stuff, especially this Siegfried video.
I have a comment to make; if anyone has ever played timpani on this piece they would know that if you listen good you can tell that the timpanist is "having a ball" here....literally!
Wagner just wrote so beautifully, how he mixed in the strings and brass, etc. then had them "color each other"! I feel you everyone!
Oh isn't music a wonderful form of expression? The beauty of music squashes boundaries...literally.
I am a hard-core jazz lover but i like a good bit of classical stuff too.
Wagners history and his music is quite controversial but i don't care; Also i am not too fond of opera but i'm keenley aware of the artistry skill of musicians, etal to do an opera. I like my instrumental classical music but i just simply like ANYTHING done by Wagner.
This deep passionate funeral march shows it all. The black depths of personal imperfection and the soaring nobility are released together to create one of the greatest moments of musical drama ever conceived.
I can forgive him his flaws for this brilliant music.
Flaws? What flaws? Don't we all have flaws? Why would you feel the need to mention flaws? When we mark the anniversary of- say- Beethoven's death, do we feel obligated to note our disapproval of his "flaws"? Obviously not, so what was it about Wagner that makes you feel you need to "forgive" him? Hmmm, could it be that he offended a very powerful ethnic group who have become the rulers of the Western world and even intimidate anonymous posters on youtube?
Tell that to the Israelis, who have banned the performance of his music in their country. Tell that to the Jews in America, who have never ceased throwing slime on the man.
Actually music from Tristan & Isolde was performed in concert in Israel in 1981 under the baton of Zubin Mehta and then again in 2001. Also - in 1995, the entire Flying Dutchman was broadcast on the radio in Israel in primetime on a Saturday night. I'll assume this time your comment was simply a case of forgetfulness rather than foul ignorance.
Wow- 3 concerts in 20 years. Does that perhaps tell you something? Israel does have a ban on the playing of Wagner's music. I'm not sure if it's a law or just a taboo, but playing his music is considered horribly insensitive. In fact, most German language music is verboten. If some musical directors have snuck Wagner unto a program and dealt with a resulting uproar, that's just a testament to their bravery, not Israeli acceptance of his music.
@josmoify He was flawed. His obsessive antisemitism has been cited many times, but his own sense of decency towards people who were his friends was remarkable. The way he behaved towards King Ludwig II or Hans von Buelow, whose wife he stole, even though he was his most ardent supporter. He was a totally self-centered man. But he was right in a way, he was an absolute genius and his music cannot be compared....simply put, human beings are complicated, seldom just good or bad...
Darkest passion and power. Wagner may have been many things, but primarily he was a genius, nothing can move me like this piece, except maybe the overture to parsifal.
Having recently watched (it wasn't worth listening to neither) an awful "Walkuere" from the Met conducted by Maazel, Gérard Mortier's words spring to the mind: "there was no reason for another Ring after Chéreau's cycle". Well, maybe the Barenboim/Kupfer version, again from Bayreuth, especially for the music. But this is... well, clinically dead. Both visually and musically. Wake up! Oh yes, Wagner would have hated this. And you are...?
I think the orchestra is lacking in strength (listen to Tennstedt's interpretation of "Siegfried's death and funeral march", also on YouTube), not to mention the wuss playing Siegfried, who looks like he'd never win a fight.
He's been mortally wounded. Jerusalem plays it so nobly and beautifully in my opinion. Jerusalem's Siegfried in the opera of the same name shows his heroic stuff in full physical strength. That's where you should look for what you say lacks here.
I don't know why, but this piece seems neglected by audiences. The other pieces just seem to attract more attention; however, to me at least, this was a crowning achievement of Wagner's. Very powerful, focused, and meaningful. You just feel the restraint and buildup in the beginning and the recognition of the accomplishment of Siegfried's as the music swells. Then, the inevitable descent again, for the hero is dead.
I am so pleased you said this. I have spent a lot of my life listening to popular music and disregarding "classical" music. I have however broadened my horizons over the last few years, and have to say that - just like pop - I find classical music very hit and miss. But I love Siegfried's Death and Funeral March. Personally I think it is the single most evocative piece of music ever written. If I could die happy, this piece would be playing in the background.
I'm Jewish. Wagner the person was a total dick. Wagner the composer was fucking incredible.
heyyywhynot 2 weeks ago
All trollers will be long dead and Wagner's music will live on with the triumphant movement of this piece at the end!!!!
Nnamdxxx 1 month ago
The trumpets in here sound kind of nasally and almost synthesized, but its still overall good. I think Wilhelm Furtwanglers version is still the greatest.
BINGFRYSRDUN 3 months ago
Lovely playing.TY TGP for posting.
paulostroff99 4 months ago
Does nobody comment on the beauty of the music created here?
kingfrosty11y 4 months ago
Tod und erschütternde Endgültigkeit. Musik eines absoluten Genies.
Lampodoria 5 months ago
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Came in for a wee listen to Wagner and yet again find Nazis, Jews and even a new one for me , abortion - why can't you people bugger off to political argument rooms and leave the music alone!
Rattywotin 5 months ago
Came in for a wee listen to Wagner and yet again find Nazis, Jews and even a new one for me , abortion - why can't you people bugger off to political argument rooms and leave the music alone!
Rattywotin 5 months ago 13
The Met is the Greatest opera house in the world.
xylantrope 8 months ago
1. Furtwangler: Siegfried's Funeral March from Gotterdammerung SLOW MOVING?????????? | THE MUSIC IS SO STRONG, LIKE GIVING YOU A MENTAL PUNCH, A SLAP ON THE FACE… YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT HIT YOU! SCORE 9.75 OF 10
2. KLEMPERER - Götterdämmerung, Siegfried's funeral march – WAGNER, SAME SLOW TEMPO. SCORE 9.25 OF 10
3. Richard Wagner - Götterdämmerung - Twilight of the gods, (mitjanus) FASTER, SCORE 9.65 OF 10
hersh1957 8 months ago
Seigfried Jerusalum is just wonderful in this Ring, as is the orchestra
fastborzoi 10 months ago
Before I found out Wagner was anti-semitic, I was drawn to the beauty of his music.
The music is so divine that one forgets politics and just enjoys.
jack60091 10 months ago 2
A quoi çà sert d'être juif si on a pas eu un grand-père banquier ?
LADISLASDEPUYSEGUR 11 months ago
"I'm jewish, so of course I know of Wagner's antisemitism" - You moron, read your own posts.
mcallen83 1 year ago
@mcallen83 ?
sstuddert 10 months ago
I remember watching the telecast in 1990? 1991? We were watching this on a small TV with lots of snow. But still, it just flowed so seamlessly and quickly that the 5+ hours came and went and the next thing we know, it was 1:30 in the morning I and another watcher walked out of our friend's apartment into a quiet morning. I think the scene coming after this part was another 30 minutes itself.
1stplacefencer 1 year ago
Excalibur!
lukebccb 1 year ago
People often take a long time in die in many works of art, be it musical or visual, but only in a Wagner opera would a man take this long to die, AND the fellows who killed him would allow him to sing for so long.
Funkypotat0 1 year ago 14
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@Funkypotat0 "People often take a long time in die in many works of art, be it musical or visual."
This indicates a common misunderstanding. Such moments are not to be thought of as in time, but as suspensions of time.
Jitpring 11 months ago
I dont know if I necessarily like all of the artistic liberties that levine takes
kowalityjesus 1 year ago 3
Tagsüber arbeite ich hart um überleben zu können ... und mir Opernkarten leisten zu können :-)
Die Liebe zu Wagner-Opern scheint sich allerdings mit zunehmendem Alter zu verschärfen und ich frage mich, ob ich eine Ring-Entzugskur machen sollte oder mich dem Werk zur Gänze verfallen lassen soll.
Lasst uns dieses hohe Kulturgut genießen!
wwv86 1 year ago 2
Bravo Richard Wagner !
Das ist Nacht und Tod, wie er endgültiger und erschütternder nicht sein kann.
Genial !
Lampodoria 1 year ago
What imperfections are these people talking about ? He was human, that's all !
But the music was that of God.
SirGlennGould 1 year ago 3
how do I get rid of the BBC voice-over?
TheRebasMom 1 year ago
Wagner wrote great death scene music. I saw this live in Seattle and the powerful Da Dum of the drums is unforgettable. And now the trumpet praising him, but sadly, with the Da Dum played by whole orchestra.
Poor innocent dangerous cluck, his death always makes me cry. And I cry for Violetta. So the music and performers are doing their work.
TheRebasMom 1 year ago 2
@TheRebasMom
I couldn't agree more. That moment with the trumpet is the most tragic of all. I never get through it with a dry eye. I did love this old Met production.
downtown1961 1 year ago
Good old pagan times. I love der Ring des Nibelungen! Its passion is so great, i can fly directly back in time, when our Germanic ancestors were at their purest and best.
Metaldude1945 1 year ago 2
quando toccherà a me voglio che ci sia questa Musica ad accompagnarmi , come ultimo conpimento della mia esistenza !
Heil Wagner!
mary75mm 1 year ago 3
Quando toccherà a me voglio che mi accompagni questa musica grandiosa cosicchè posso mandare a qual paese il mondo intero !
mary75mm 1 year ago 2
Gangsta Rappers have killed more people than Wagner...
bengan001 1 year ago
Magnifico!! There are no words to describe what a human soul can feel listening to this music...is like taking a dip in the eternal sea of human spirit. Wagner sings the passion, the incredible impact of the living spirit with Being. Yes it was anti-Semitic, but it was against to what a revolutionary nineteenth century man could identify as representatives of capitalism in Europe. I think today he would make no longer ethnic differences of this kind.
distortionzz 1 year ago
He had no flaws.
TheAbstraction 1 year ago
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I'm jewish, so of course I know of Wagner's antisemitism. Still, it should not be the thing people remember about him. His music is among the greatest ever written, it is deep with passion, meaning and this piece in particular is a pinnacle of artistic achievement. A man who wrote such beautiful music can not have been all bad. I'll agree with Nietzsche and regret Wagner's feverish antisemitism, but aknowlege him to be a musical genius par excellence.
Kuner1 1 year ago 42
Wagner had beautiful beliefs and brilliant essays. He believed in the bettering of the middle-class, bringing culture to the people, and a blighting of the oligopoly. I am jewish as well, but even in the case of Wagner's political beliefs, they need to be separated also.
JMillerBayRidge 1 year ago
@JMillerBayRidge sorry - but no! Wagner had VILE beliefs and disgusting essays ... HOWEVER, his music transcends that
lhrlyc 1 year ago
Wagner believed that "the Goldman Sach's and Rothschild's", the feudal system and exploitation of the oligopoly was criminal. He believed in a strong middle-class that had access to culture and the better things in society? How is this bad? How is this a bad belief system.
His antisemitism is distasteful...yes. Most of us will agree on this. But was Wagner's antisemitism and anomaly for his time? No! Most high level magnate were antisemitic.
JMillerBayRidge 1 year ago
This doesn't pardon Wagner, but it raises the question; was everyone in Europe inherently evil? There are many jews that were even self-loathing and converted; even Mahler converted at the order of Karl Lueger.
His music transcends WAGNER'S belief system. I am not, and I am sure many of you are not (or scared to admit), a believer that you can separate Wagner's music from beliefs.
Wagner wrote his librettos and made a gesamtswerk..so there is no separation of his art or belief system
JMillerBayRidge 1 year ago
@lhrlyc I agree... the music is wonderful. Very emotive ;).
TheWisemonkey8 1 year ago
@Kuner1 Was seine antisem. Äußerungen angeht, so glaube ich: hätte Wagner heute gelebt , er wäre wie viele von uns - hätten viele von uns damals gelebt, wären sie wie Wagner gewesen
concerning Wagner's antisemitic uttering, I believe: would he live now, he would be/talk like most of us, would many of us have lived then, they would have been/talked like him - in many nowadays prosemitic statements I just don't trust...there is still a lot to do about
Salar73 1 year ago
@Kuner1 yes; being of the same 'extraction' as you, i had some considerations about wagner and thus hesitated to listen in full until now; and now i am touched by the beauty and genius of his music; none of us are perfect :))
mrafelle 1 year ago
@Kuner1
mrafelle 1 year ago
@Kuner1 "I'm jewish, so of course I know of Wagner's antisemitism" What does it matter if you're Jewish or not? He was no more antisemitic than other artists/politicians at the time. A Jewish person somehow gets to determine the value of his music vs other people? Dude, you're an idiot. You think public opinion has not been the same or a lot worse in history with many competing religions? If you like the music, fine, but being Jewish in no way adds value to your opinion of Wager's music
mcallen83 1 year ago
@mcallen83
What does it matter? In Israel you can not perform Wagner's music publically. And yes, he was far more antisemitic than others during his time.
In no way did I state or suggest that being jewish is relevant to stating an opinion on Wagner's music. I don't know where you read that in my post.
In fact I said quite the opposite: that people should NOT remember him for being an an antisemite and should remember him for his music. Being jewish is relevant to that.
Kuner1 1 year ago
@mcallen83 he was saying that he is jewish and is still able, despite Wagner's antisemitic views/writings, to listen to Wagner's music just like anyone else.
In otherwords, it doesn't matter if he was a manipulative, megalomaniacal, womanising racist, Wagner's music is still good because it's quality has nothing to do with the character of it's composer.
He said nothing about or never implied that he "gets to determine the value of his music vs other people".
sstuddert 10 months ago
@Kuner1 I agree even though Mimi and Alberich are clearly jewish caricatures
nettuno5 10 months ago
@Kuner1 Wagner seems to have a legion of Jewish fans, oddly enough. I guess that's the Jew's twisted sense of vengeance in effect.
OldSchopenhauer 7 months ago 2
@OldSchopenhauer
Wagner would be twisting in his grave, if he knew how many Jewish Fans he has these days, while German youths prefer HipHop with turkish accent :D
But Vengeance never came to my mind. I was a fan of Wagner's music long before I knew anything about the man or even about me being a jew (first heard this piece when I was 5).
We're not above recognizing genius or giving credit where it is due.
Kuner1 7 months ago
@Kuner1 You are lucky you heard it so young in life. First hearing this piece at maybe age 21, and it having the effect on me it does now, I cannot imagine how extraordinary it must have been at age 5
Mirani2 7 months ago
Nietzsche was a self-hating asshole who thought that the German nation was the most worthless one in the entire universe--after he had voluntered for the Prussian army several times but was rejected. Nietzsche was like a child: as the fatherland didn't need him, he started to hate it. Wagner, however, remained a true German throughout his life. This might not please people like you but that's how it is. And I'm glad about this. Wagner was a true German. And an anti-Semite. And that's not bad.
HerrWagnerfreund 6 months ago
@HerrWagnerfreund
"Wagner was a true German. And an anti-Semite." Perhaps this is why Nietzsche did not hold Germany in such high regard. Considering the course of History and I would say Nietzsche was proven to be quite right.
Germany was arguably the greatest nation in Europe during their time. What is left of it now? A broken, depressed people with the lowest birth rate in the world. Compare what is today to what could have been, had Germany not destroyed itself in a blaze of hatred.
Kuner1 6 months ago
Nietzsche became anti-German for other reasons. I've pointed them out. He was a patriot in his youth but was "rejected by the fatherland" several times what obviously made him hate Germany in a childish way. And yes, we are about to disappear, but we did what we thought was right, and this was the only reasonable way for us. We wanted a German Germany, without foreign (esp. Jewish) influences. We fought for it. We lost. We have to live and die with the consequences. Heil Wagner!
HerrWagnerfreund 6 months ago
@HerrWagnerfreund
I'm no friend of multiculturalism, but most Jews killed were not even from Germany, but but lived in Poland and Ukraine. What did that have to do with a "German Germany"?
One can not call Jewish Germans "foreign". Our ancestors lived and even bred together for 1500 years. Jewish blood has been spilt over German soil along with everyone else's.
Like it or not, we are here to stay. And unlike many of you, we will not surrender Germany to Islam without a fight.
Kuner1 6 months ago
There are no "Jewish Germans" but only "Jews in Germany" as both the Jewish and the German people have always defined themselves ethnically. There have undoubtedly been Jewish communities as old as you write but Jewish and German blood were hardly ever mixed. Germans lived with Germans, and Jews lived within their own districts. Most Germans didn't want an alien nation within our borders. Germany was not intended to be a multi-ethnic but a mere German country. And I thought you lived in America?
HerrWagnerfreund 6 months ago
@HerrWagnerfreund
Of course they are seperate ethnicities, but one can't say they didn't mix, in fact it was periodically quite fashionable. Skin color and features of a formerly middle eastern people don't changed overnight to the look of someone like Freud, Mahler, Spielberg hardly look middle eastern.
I myself am only 25% Jew and 75% German and the Jewish part was Ashkenazi, so already mixed. Does that make me less German than someone from NRW with ie. half polish ancestry?
Kuner1 6 months ago
But you are a citizen of the U.S., aren't you? Why are you talking about surrendering Germany to Islam then? I can assure you that we have already surrendered. Every culture and every nation eventually dies. Germany and Europe are about to enter this natural part of life. That's how life is: cruel and unforgiving any weakness.
HerrWagnerfreund 6 months ago
@HerrWagnerfreund
I live in Germany, forgive me for not wanting to disclose too much personal info.
Weakness is the cardinal sin of man. True, German youths for the most part are imbeciles, they start drinking at 12, are uneducated and physically weak. But I don't yet subscribe to fatalism, or else I would not be here.
If Sarrazin can sell 1.5 million copies of his book, then there is hope. There will be a pan-European civil war with Islam. Belgium and Sweden will fall, but Germany won't
Kuner1 6 months ago
@Kuner1 I wanted to listen Wagner and accidently found Your conversation. I see taht there is much more tolerance for Jews than for Polish people in Germany. Maybe i'll say few things from my polish perspective. Simply there is no hope for Europe. Whatever Sarazin wrote, there is one thing, that western Europe has not, unlikely easter ( my Poland, Ukraine, Lithuania, Russia, etc. ) - strong devotion to tradition. Our traditional cultural background allows us preserve our culture.
xixioxaxe 6 months ago
@Kuner1 One example - abortion. Thanks to strong catholic influence on society, recent social research shows that more, and more young people are against "pro choice" ideoloy. This is growing tendency ( in 2010 more people was against abortion, than in 2008 ). In the western Europe, because of reject the tradition, the situation is different.
xixioxaxe 6 months ago
@xixioxaxe
Sure, join the conversation. I'm not sure I understood you right. How do you experience intolerance against Polish people? I haven't encountered it so far, just curious.
About abortion: it's really a non-issue to me. Of course it's horrible when women have one abortion after another (I actually know one psycho woman who keeps trying to force men to marry her by getting pregnant and now just had her 6th abortion). But on the other hand, I'm sort of glad these people don't breed
Kuner1 6 months ago
@Kuner1 -For reasons of which I am not aware in particular the Nazi hate for Poles was intense It was not so towards oiker East or Central European nations.I'd love to no the reason for this.Also anti semitism was more rampant in the Ukraine then it ever was in Germany.The same could also be said of Austria.The Greeks were also terribly anti semitic and once burnt down all the Jewish institutions in Thessaloniki.I believe there to have been 38 structures mysteriouly set afire at the same time.
paulostroff99 4 months ago
The synagogue built in Rhodes under the Romans was later.destroyed by the Greeks Their anti semitism is in their eyes justified for the killing of christ by the Jews Let it be said that not one Jew perished in Bulgaria because of anti semitism,and that Italy assimilated their Jews during those troubled times saving them from death.
paulostroff99 4 months ago
@xixioxaxe
part2: While I even agree that abortion is in a way murder, there are cases where it is justified (like when a woman gets pregnant after being raped, or when a fetus shows genetic defects.) It really is a moral grey area.
Tradition does not automatically make things good. It used to be a tradition to burn witches or bury a cat in the foundation of a house to keep out evil spirits. We have some pretty silly traditions :D
Kuner1 6 months ago
@Kuner1 up to now most Germans still have not realized how important jewish cultur and contributions was and would have been for this country's future. I dare to say that a lot of things were better and a lot of problems would not exist if there hadn't been NS time. It was the biggest fault in European countries history to believe in truebred populations. They can only exist with very small societies when isolated >African tribes etc. - and: with the result of stagnation.
Salar73 5 months ago
@Salar73
Germany would have indeed profited greatly from Jew's academic and economic achievements, which instead took and take place in Israel or America.
Nature favors a wide breeding radius, but it also favors racial distinction. Whether or not a mix works really just depends on the individual ingredients. I'm not opposed to a people wanting to preserve their cultural and genetic heritage, the fixation on Jews after the 19th century came rather later after living together for 1500 years.
Kuner1 5 months ago
To tie this music to politics or race is a vulgar act. It sullies the music and insults the composer.
Just listen and transcend.
Rhademanthus 1 year ago 3
Powerful and profound.
Plunges into the deepest abyss.
Penetrating the Race Soul.
Imperium Europa:
The Book that changed the world.
Amazon Books
NormanLowell 2 years ago
I saw the last performance of this ever @ the Met. Amazing!!
amaxamon 2 years ago
wann bekommen viele Wagnerianer und deren gegner endlich die Lüge von Wagner als Deutschdümmler aus den Hirnen....hat keiener von denen zuerst Nietzsche gelesen oder doch und falsch verstanden? Übermensch ist nicht der , der alles kann und darum tut, sondern im Gegenteil der nicht alles was er vermag auch in die Tat umsetzt...dazu bedarf es einer moralisch und ethischen Grösse, die Hagen und Siegfried hier nicht besitzen...deshalb diese Tragödie....eine zutiefst Menschliche.
taxijunkie 2 years ago 3
Certainement le point culminant de la tétralogie au sein de l'oeuvre ultime du ring. La densité dramatique du personnage de Siegfried s'exalte dans cette marche tour à tour terrifante, mélancolique, romantique et héroïque. Edifiante de puissance et de tension, cette traueurmarsch est une des plus belles émotions musicales que j'ai connu...
gotterdammerung0 2 years ago 2
@gotterdammerung0 vous avez la raison mon ami. Vraiment, cet ouvre musiquel est tres belle
cigneska 1 year ago
Amazing! Siegfrieds Tod is certainly a significant point in the Ring cycle. Haven't seen this for year, but it is still familiar, and I love it. Dioch yn fawr am bostio, akár milyen nyelven!
athb4hu 2 years ago 4
Ich konnte nicht das öffentlich sehen. Ich bin 6 '2" 300 * ütelager als Siegfried bekannter Radfahrer. Ich konnte nicht das durchkommen, ohne meine Ketten einrosten zu lassen.
Militärische Begräbnisse verstopfen mich auch.
SyvetheShairks 2 years ago
@SyvetheShairks
???what the h...???
ApollonPythios 2 years ago
Le "seigneur des anneaux" est un aimable divertissement a coté de ceci!!
Il y a deux "belles morts " chez Wagner: Siegfried et Isolde...celle ci est moins poignante...mais plus terrifiante et la musique la rend terrifiante!
nanard111 2 years ago
@nanard111 Je ne la trouve pas terrifiante.. Faut pas oublier que Wagner utilise le thème de l'éveil de Brunnhilde
isabelle070209 2 years ago
oui isabelle, mais il ya tout le" décorum "et cette musique qui est très sombre..par rapport à Meier et son chant si doux..mais SVP comparons deux opéras et non pas un opéra et un récital, sinon la comparaison est faussée..
nanard111 2 years ago
@nanard111 Pardon? Mais je ne compare pas récital et intégrale. Je ne suis pas de ce style. Notons le paradoxe wagnérien de mettre en théme des morts de ces héros des thèmes bien moins triste. Ainsi Brunnhilde fini son immolation sur le thème de la vie.
Et quel rapport avec Meier?????
isabelle070209 2 years ago
AAAA. 141537Z AUG 2009 Thank you for posting.......AR.
fourwayscottage 2 years ago
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HAIL SATAN
FarmerNinja 2 years ago
Dude, it's " Hail Wotan!" Satan is the God of evil and he belongs to another religion than the religion Sigi (Siegfried) followed.
WyattKaldenberg 2 years ago
But i think that the production in Aix en Provence this summer with the Berliner Philharmoniker is just better. The orchestre, the soloist etc. everything was perfect!
valfrancois 2 years ago
This is much better than the current production at the Wiener Staatsoper, which I had the privilege of seeing live last week.
Much better, and the orchestra is top notch.
sm27247 2 years ago
Well, I haven´t seen the Wiener or the Met Rings, but I've attended several operas in each. Comparing the Met Orchestra with the Wiener Philharmoniker is just out of question. The VPO is at a different level... in fact it's one of the three best in the world, along with Concertgebouw and BPO. The Met's, being a good orchestra, cannot be compared..
javierqatar 2 years ago 10
@javierqatar Don't be silly, the MET is world class and more than just a "good orchestra".
PoseidonRM 9 months ago
Magnificent Piece, I also liked it in "Excalibur" the movie
soozikins 2 years ago 3
Please load this whole performance! Wonderful! (and for anyone who hasn't seen the current run of the cycle at the Met, you have one last chance this week! Don't miss it! )
littleblitzkrieg 2 years ago 2
I thought the lions and tigers were going to be the palbearers....
SPAZZUNAKI 2 years ago
What is that motif at 5:27?
LMJ314142 2 years ago
The sword!
rickloader09 2 years ago 2
I'm going next week; I can't wait!
MedusaNY 2 years ago
how was the singing? i was at the production of rheingold, it was decent but the singers didn't have the power! were you able to hear the singers well at the Met performance? if so i might just come home for a performance.
nemmerel 2 years ago
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barbeerian 2 years ago
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I was especially impressed with Hagen (Tomlinson) and Brunhilde (Dalayman). Although the orchestra is tremendously powerful in this opera (the biggest I've ever seen in the Met's pit), I didn't feel the singers were overpowered by it at any time.
I stood at the back of the Dress Circle for the second act because my knees have a hard time with the limited legroom of the seating and even there, the sound was excellent.
Of course the magnificent acoustics in the Met didn't hurt at all.
barbeerian 2 years ago
Just saw this production yesterday with Levine conducting. GOOSEBUMPS! I've been to almost 100 operas, including Valkyrie and Sigfried, but this was my first Götterdämmerung. It is in my top 5 faves now.
This is the final season of the current Met production that has been running since the mid-80s. I am looking forward to seeng the new one.
barbeerian 2 years ago 2
I was there too, amazing. A youtube clip, out of context, does not do it justice.
danpmil 2 years ago
I was there on Saturday as well. Standing room. What a thrill it was. Isn't it great to know that there are other complete strangers out there who share the same inexpressable emotions?
goooooodmorning 2 years ago 2
Farewell. Be kind and loving. It is over... God bless (whichever one that is). My warm and kind regards,
Lanark8 2 years ago
So heroic !
Boulezitude 2 years ago
Question: I first heard this piece by itself as an instrumental, rather than an opera (no story behind the music), and I was quite moved by what seems like one of the most amazing climaxes I've ever heard (5:35)...and I don't understand...how...why...this blissful powerful music is accompanied by a dreary funeral and people marching slowly with heads lowered? .
t0mmyd1nkum 2 years ago
That's a great question! Unfortunately I think the only possible answer is this: you'd have to experience the entire Ring in order to appreciate how stunning and powerful this scene is. Heard in context as the climactic scene of a 16-hour opera which has to do with the downfall of arbitrary power and the triumph of unselfish love, it has a potency and leitmotivic cohesion which almost can't be described. If you get a chance to hear the whole thing, write back and let me know what you think!
dseanmat 2 years ago 3
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barbeerian 2 years ago
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t0mmyd1nkum 2 years ago
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Thanks for taking the time to respond! I study music and was quite curious about the implications of having heard a piece of music which in fact is part of a much larger picture, and whether or not I get the same(relative) feeling/impression as those who have seen it all. I will definitely take your advice. Cheers!
t0mmyd1nkum 2 years ago
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Seeing the entire Ring cycle is not a prerequisite for enjoying Götterdämmerung, but I would recommend familiarizing yourself with the backstory of the previous 3 operas before seeing it. No doubt seeing all 4 within a short span of time (as my father just did) will enhance the experience, but don't miss a chance to see any of these masterworks.
barbeerian 2 years ago
I saw Valery Gergiev and the Kirov Opera perform this..........a really great performance. When the trumpet has his solo at 5:18, he stands up and plays facing the audience. I've never seen this before or since and it was extremely effective.
cbfoto 2 years ago
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cbfoto 2 years ago
Power Power Power but my favorite is definately Parcifal.
llandudnoboy 2 years ago
AAAA. 282407Z FEB 2009 A fine performance...thank you for posting.......AR.
fourwayscottage 3 years ago
5:55 when they vanish!!! just wonderful!!
DiLassu 3 years ago
Excelent Wonderful!!!!!!
power!!!
italomar01 3 years ago
Beautful.....
rcummi00 3 years ago 2
Such powerful music. Even playing it in a brass choir it still has that aura of intensity.
cpthornman 3 years ago
So basically Siegfried plays himself does he? XD
Shogunmiyu 3 years ago
Musica di una bellezza devastante
MattBecken 3 years ago
just outstanding music
brenkei 3 years ago
Thanks for posting this. One of my favourite pieces of music ever
reynaldina 3 years ago
Fantastic! Dorothea :)
dorotheafayne 3 years ago
this is music!!!
WONDERFUL
reynaldina 3 years ago
ist dass dass nibelungenlied?
kann mir jemand bitte eventuell wagner dvds schicken.... wäre wunderbarst....einer der ganz großen werke....echt wahr
literaturfilmsuche17 3 years ago
Quite remarkable, that such an small ugly saxonian womanizer, did compose music with no match ever.
Needless to say that he was German )))))))))))))
BlitzWotan 3 years ago
At the last concert the Berlin Phil. gave, when the Russians really were at the gates, this was among the pieces played. As the audience left they were met by members of the SS holding baskets of cyanide capsules. Even Wagner couldn't have thought of that.
hedleyclive 3 years ago
I thought it was Brueckner's symphonies that were played last. Where did you get the information?
ilyamur 3 years ago
Actually the final concert before the arrival of the Russians was
-Siegfried's Funeral Music
-Beethoven Violin Concerto (Taschner Playing)
-Conclude from Bruckner's 4th Symphony
Drummerboy139703 3 years ago
Sorry Drummerboy, but which Beethoven violin concerto was it? Can you give a link, please? Thanks
Artemissimo 2 years ago
for darkness and power there's no better funeral march.
The dynamic, the long crescendo with the forte fortissimo are simply perfect.
axisgirl 3 years ago 3
Yeah baby girl, you described this real well.
I like this style too and Levine has the MET
give it to us too!
I also like the way this style is done in Rossini's works too.
madero111 3 years ago
I am alone when it comes to Wagner. Nobody I know would listen to Wagner with me or go to any live performance of his works. I wonder, is this also your experience?
Loominthesea 3 years ago 3
Wagner is God in the opera like Beethoven is in music.
When I hear their music I know that God is here with us.
hellhenriques 3 years ago
Elgar with "Enigma Variations" is the reflex of these couple...
emisordigital 3 years ago
Man oh Man.....i too love Levine conducting The MET doing Wagner's stuff, especially this Siegfried video.
I have a comment to make; if anyone has ever played timpani on this piece they would know that if you listen good you can tell that the timpanist is "having a ball" here....literally!
Wagner just wrote so beautifully, how he mixed in the strings and brass, etc. then had them "color each other"! I feel you everyone!
madero111 3 years ago
This makes me want to write an opera. In fact I will.
MassNssen 3 years ago
This is AMAZING. See you in Bayreuth...or maybe Seattle.
JeffW77 3 years ago
This makes me want to overrun the Low Countries
bellsmyre49 3 years ago
jajaja!! I think that original's woody Allen says Poland and not low countries
TELESOLYSOMBRA 3 years ago
Oh isn't music a wonderful form of expression? The beauty of music squashes boundaries...literally.
I am a hard-core jazz lover but i like a good bit of classical stuff too.
Wagners history and his music is quite controversial but i don't care; Also i am not too fond of opera but i'm keenley aware of the artistry skill of musicians, etal to do an opera. I like my instrumental classical music but i just simply like ANYTHING done by Wagner.
I'm ghetto born and raised too.
madero111 3 years ago 2
Today marks the Anniversary of Wagner's death.
He was a flawed, but ultimately great man.
This deep passionate funeral march shows it all. The black depths of personal imperfection and the soaring nobility are released together to create one of the greatest moments of musical drama ever conceived.
I can forgive him his flaws for this brilliant music.
How about the rest of you?
lovelymess 4 years ago 17
Flaws? What flaws? Don't we all have flaws? Why would you feel the need to mention flaws? When we mark the anniversary of- say- Beethoven's death, do we feel obligated to note our disapproval of his "flaws"? Obviously not, so what was it about Wagner that makes you feel you need to "forgive" him? Hmmm, could it be that he offended a very powerful ethnic group who have become the rulers of the Western world and even intimidate anonymous posters on youtube?
richmond450 4 years ago
shit! music is only music, bad or good!
123must 3 years ago
Tell that to the Israelis, who have banned the performance of his music in their country. Tell that to the Jews in America, who have never ceased throwing slime on the man.
richmond450 3 years ago
Actually music from Tristan & Isolde was performed in concert in Israel in 1981 under the baton of Zubin Mehta and then again in 2001. Also - in 1995, the entire Flying Dutchman was broadcast on the radio in Israel in primetime on a Saturday night. I'll assume this time your comment was simply a case of forgetfulness rather than foul ignorance.
rypolitico 3 years ago 3
Wow- 3 concerts in 20 years. Does that perhaps tell you something? Israel does have a ban on the playing of Wagner's music. I'm not sure if it's a law or just a taboo, but playing his music is considered horribly insensitive. In fact, most German language music is verboten. If some musical directors have snuck Wagner unto a program and dealt with a resulting uproar, that's just a testament to their bravery, not Israeli acceptance of his music.
richmond450 3 years ago
Wagern's music is great.
But, his Ring Cycle is more than great - it is transends this world, takes us to the Gods.
Wagner doesn't need or ask for our forgiveness.
johnrobinsonh 4 years ago 26
@johnrobinsonh I think this one was a little fast. I like my ring in an andatino style
Maestoso28 1 year ago
@lovelymess He was a great composer. I don't think he was a great man.
lewars1912 1 year ago
@lovelymess hmmm...can't remember any of those "flaws";maybe the smell of some agenda
josmoify 1 year ago
@josmoify He was flawed. His obsessive antisemitism has been cited many times, but his own sense of decency towards people who were his friends was remarkable. The way he behaved towards King Ludwig II or Hans von Buelow, whose wife he stole, even though he was his most ardent supporter. He was a totally self-centered man. But he was right in a way, he was an absolute genius and his music cannot be compared....simply put, human beings are complicated, seldom just good or bad...
sobelou 1 year ago
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bengan001 1 year ago
@lovelymess I've never heard a wiser thing said. Bravo.
witness124 1 year ago
@lovelymess
a) if your are the Lord - thank you for forgiving him
b) if not, please, who are you to judge Wagner?
darwinism14 1 year ago
Darkest passion and power. Wagner may have been many things, but primarily he was a genius, nothing can move me like this piece, except maybe the overture to parsifal.
daveydaveybaby 4 years ago 5
Has anyone put together the music of Wagner with tours of the great castles of Germany, such as the Heidelberg Castle and the Rhine Falls Castle?
absentmindedprof 4 years ago
Or Neuschwanstein.
Springeragh 3 years ago
Well, this is how this scene should be.
Jerusalem is really handsome, looks young and has a great voice. Salminen IS Hagen. :D
And thank God - normal clothes! Normal directing! I hate avantgarde directings...
canafinwe 4 years ago 5
Having recently watched (it wasn't worth listening to neither) an awful "Walkuere" from the Met conducted by Maazel, Gérard Mortier's words spring to the mind: "there was no reason for another Ring after Chéreau's cycle". Well, maybe the Barenboim/Kupfer version, again from Bayreuth, especially for the music. But this is... well, clinically dead. Both visually and musically. Wake up! Oh yes, Wagner would have hated this. And you are...?
SIT805 4 years ago
really wonderful :) however I prefer version of Pierre Boulez with Manfred Jung as Siegfried and astonishing scenography by Patrice Chereau
Manya1759 4 years ago
Chills. Bring on the winter nights and lights of Yule!
MCKRUSH 4 years ago
this simple piece of music would have been enough to include in the Walhalla of the Music. Absolutely Wonderful!
javierernestez 4 years ago
I have the Georg Solti version, about 1971, on vinyl. The whole Ring Cycle. It is a masterpiece.
Al.
alfrunrig 4 years ago 5
Fast so gut wie Scooter.
Neo772 4 years ago
Levine's treatment of the funeral music sounds a lot like Bernstein's.
nibelungensohn 4 years ago
I think the orchestra is lacking in strength (listen to Tennstedt's interpretation of "Siegfried's death and funeral march", also on YouTube), not to mention the wuss playing Siegfried, who looks like he'd never win a fight.
Vader218 4 years ago
Hmm I do like the lower-brass theme on 6.51 on this recording.. those bars are very interesting for Tuba and (contra-)(bass-)trombonists.
BBdeHoekpunten 4 years ago
He's been mortally wounded. Jerusalem plays it so nobly and beautifully in my opinion. Jerusalem's Siegfried in the opera of the same name shows his heroic stuff in full physical strength. That's where you should look for what you say lacks here.
moboy44 4 years ago
I don't know, this description is trite in many ways, but I only have so much space; there's just so much to say. Nonetheless, a true masterwork.
Demonicron 4 years ago
I don't know why, but this piece seems neglected by audiences. The other pieces just seem to attract more attention; however, to me at least, this was a crowning achievement of Wagner's. Very powerful, focused, and meaningful. You just feel the restraint and buildup in the beginning and the recognition of the accomplishment of Siegfried's as the music swells. Then, the inevitable descent again, for the hero is dead.
Demonicron 4 years ago 2
Demonicron,
I am so pleased you said this. I have spent a lot of my life listening to popular music and disregarding "classical" music. I have however broadened my horizons over the last few years, and have to say that - just like pop - I find classical music very hit and miss. But I love Siegfried's Death and Funeral March. Personally I think it is the single most evocative piece of music ever written. If I could die happy, this piece would be playing in the background.
kronky4 4 years ago 3