Chomsky is probably the smartest person alive, and in this clip, it boggles the mind as to why he has to debate this issue. It's very obvious that he's correct about Palestine, correct about Israel. Dershowtiz just gets smoked here.
MR. DERSHOWITZ IS A FAR MORE PRECISE IN BOTH TRUTH AND ACTUAL FACTS DELIVERIES ABOUT THE REALITY OF THE SITUATION IN THE MIDDLE EAST, AND BETWEEN THE STATE OF ISRAEL AND PALESTINIANS HORDES. TO SAY SHORT ABOUT CHOMSKY AND HIS OUT OF THIS WORLD ARGUMENTATION, DEFENCES AND WORDY DEJA-VU LINQUISTIC VOYAGER, THE RED ONE IN COLOR WHEN DEATH FOR GOOD, ARE JUST SILLY AND NONSENCE, NOT WORTH EVEN TO LISTEN TO. NO, IT'S MR. DERSHOWITH WHO ENTERTAINES WITH TRUTH, IS REALLY THE OWNER OF IT
Has anyone noticed how Chomsky's most vociferous haters happen to be the Zionist, pro-Israel people? Kinda wierd if you ask m--oh wait, the Jewish Lobby. That explains it all.
We are almost at the end of 2011 and still Israel continues to build settlements in occupied territories - all illegal. So you can imagine, after the time this was recorded, the modus operandi still has not changed and Israel is doing exactly what they wish to do at the expense of the Palestinians.
Its true, Dershowitz has it tough. It isn't easy defending the Israeli state. Thirty five years of a brutal occupation, enforced by a warmachine and the excessive use of terror tactics. Israel has also skillfully utilized mainstream media in the US to subdue the masses.
So much more impressive is Chomsky with his closely argued accurately referenced presentation than is Dershowitz with his slick and misleading sophistry.
All I can see is that Chomsky gets all the clapping in the debate and supported the most by youtube comments and I don't have to tell anyone that The law of Media is......THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT..........Go Chomsky!
@mimiyan2 yes that's why Ke$sha is clearly one of the greatest musicians of all time, and the Transformers 2: Revenge of the Fallen deserved to win best picture.
If you didn't get the sarcasm: people are fucking idiots. Of course they agree with Chomsky. Chomsky is no idiot, but his position is completely wrong, he's an idiot on this issue, and that appeals to the masses who are in general slobbering knuckle-draggers.
I don't always agree with Chomsky but it's pretty obvious he is intellectually light years ahead of Herr Dershowitz....Also just seems like a better person.
Chomsky could not survive outside his ivory tower for a second.
He might be a genius and great intellect but total moron in simple common sense. Democratic countries are attempting to establish rule of law and civility to live by not to die by. When they confronted by evil like nazi they take gloves of and so and Israel.
UK/US bomb hell out german and japanese cities. A few days ago Obama assassinate Usama on territory of sov.state and dump body
@Greywind30 like the Chilean elected president Allende who was overthrown by a US backed coup -at behest of ITT- whereby fascist Pinochet emerged as a military dictator to protect US investment?
Is that a "democratic country. attempting to establish rule of law"? Who is evil in this equation? US policies are not about good or evil.if a evil leader is killed in the process of Imperialism then all the better, but don't fool yourself into believing that its the contingent variable.
@Greywind30 "Democratic countries are attempting to establish rule of law and civility to live by not to die by." This statement is utterly meaningless. "Democratic countries"? Which ones? You think democracies are the same everywhere? Do you live in the US? Do you realize how little power the people actually have over their government in this country? The democracy you probably have in mind is more like a farcical narrative about democracy that you get from people who think like Dershowitz.
@otenacityo "Democratic countries"? Which ones? You think democracies are the same everywhere?"
Of course I know there are different kind of democracy and there is no such thing as "pure democracy"
Its going without saying. So? What is your point? There is no difference between totalitarian regime like in Cuba or dictatorship like Syria and any of Wester democracies?
Before I heard Chomsky I thought I knew something about this conflict. After listening to him, I realize I know so little as to disqualify me from having an opinion on this matter. I wish more people reserved having opinions until they knew somethign about what they were talking about.
@zzzak123 Great comment,Opinions have little to do with facts,Chomsky quotes facts and Dershowitz holds to an opinion.Its better to state a humble fact of not knowing than to hang on to an opinion
About 700k arabs became refugee as results if 1948. Everyone knows it but who knows about other wave of refugees whole 600k of them? Very a few. I'm talking about jewish refugees from Muslim countries. They left with nothing more then what they wear but unlike arabs jews take care of own. Arabs stole from them land 4x of ENTIRE ISRAEL,
Arabs rejected a 2 state solution until it became clear they couldnt do a thing militarily to kill the Jews.
Now Arabs have shifted to a secondary strategy...death by demographics. Get a foothold in there...and then pry the rest loose with rights of return or high birthrates. Given the declining Palestinian fertility(for nearly 20 yrs now) and the mushrooming Haredi birthrate(and shift towards more of the Israeli Jewish population being Haredi ....
Israel became a state in 1312 B.C., two millennium before Islam. Arab refugees from Israel began calling themselves "Palestinians" in 1967, two decades after (modern) Israeli statehood in 1948. After conquering the land in 1272 B.C., Israelis ruled it for a thousand years and maintained a continuous presence there for 3,300 years
let's make things simple!!! The Jews don't want peace neither do the Palestinians.The Jews have stolen their land and have built on the occupied territory.The Jews have violated numerous world laws and UN resolutions.They make the Palestinians carry ids to enter their own neighborhoods.The Jews do not belong in Palestine.The US should give then a piece of land in Alaska.A white man doesn't belong in black Harlem and a Jew doesn't belong in the middle east surrounded by a 100 million arabs.
Do you want it simple? Here it is before Israel this land was a waist land. Swamps, desert, rocks, no industry, no agriculture to speak of. Jews build first class country that excel in every way agriculture, industry, science, art, education and they kick ass. If not for Israel you would be speaking russian.
Justification for Israel is not so much ancient Israel but a fact that jews always had been there throw the millenniums.
Granted as minority but sizable minority. In end of 19th century jews start to return and buy land legally. After WW1 zionist made a move with agreement of Brits and ARAB LEADERS of that time
@Greywind30 There has been sizable minoritys of jews in many European countrys. Is that a justification for taking over the land? If romans returned to Israel and legally bought land and became a sizable minority would you accept if they took over the land or would you fight them?
You conveniently forget other part. After WW1 Brits, LoN AND ARAB LEADERS (its in cap for a reason) agreed to make Israel in BRITISH mandate of Palestine.
It might be not good reason today but by standards of that time it was perfectly just and sensible.
@Greywind30 So the decline of the Ottoman Empire after ww1 had nothing to do with it? America and Britain gave financial support to any arab uprisings in the Ottoman occupied territorys because Turkey was a member of the trippel alliance during ww1, a enemy of britain, france and america. So Palestine became British after ww1, i know that :) but what is your point? "Israel in british mandate of Palestine" Israel was created 1948, i don't understand you.
Tenants (jews) in condo want to buy majority of house. They are paying above market price because of sentimental reasons. They also promise renovate building and neighborhood. Nobody ask for discount because long ago entire condo was jewish and taken away by force. See?
Landlord (Brits) argee
Other tenants (arabs) agree
City authority (LoN) agree
Jews move in paying 10x real price than other tenant change mind.
If you look at "original partition plan of Palestine" you will see it's a crazy idea in first place both Jewish and Arab states divided in 3 main land patches. Two of them connected by one road and third totally separate. Just take a look. The only way it could possibly happen if two tribes attempt to live in peace.
FACT is Jews agreed and Arabs reject it and keep rejecting it and I have all reason to believe they dont offer real peace even now but just maneuver Israel in vulnerable position
@gosillygirl Chomsky is the snake. Are you saying that Harvard has no brains for granting Dershowitz tenure at the university? Sounds like a contradiction in early formation. Chomsky is against Israel. Dershowitz is for Israel. Without Israel, Jews would have no home, no culture, and thusly nothing to look forward to. This is our home.
@EternalIntelligence Chomsky isn't "against Israel," he's a self-professed Zionist. Just because one calls for Israel to stop its crimes and violations of human rights -- a description that comes from the UN, Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, B'Tselem and others -- does not mean one is "against Israel." You're grossly oversimplifying. Those who claim to support Israel should be among the first to call upon their government to stop committing their crimes, just as with any other country.
I immediately jumped straight to this video because the preceding three videos are dominated by that fabricating snake deceitful spiteful liar Dershowitz, an advocate of genocide of the Lebanese population and a blind ignorant fool.
@anastamotic Even better than that... Find all Israelis who don't have documents proving land/ property ownership before Israel was created - i.e. fraudulent documents started being issued - and send them back to America, Britain, Eastern Europe/ Russia, Australia... If they resist this most generous offer, ask them if they would prefer to be dropped in the drink instead. Problem solved!
Why would we send those Jews back? Every country allows for immigration, and the extent to which they do so is no one else's business but their own. The U.S. for example is VERY generous with it's immigration policy.
If you think of reasons to get things done and are pragmatic and willing to give something up, then a thing will get done. If you make a list of why something cannot get done and resort to details, pedantry and absolutes then a thing will not get done. Chomsky's way will never help Palestinians. He is interested in academic arguments about right and wrong and not reality that involves taking what you can get a cutting your losses. Otherwise, Israel will just slowly eat up the West Bank.
@James2010May the whole world (including palestine, but minus the u.s. and israel) agrees on what the solution would be. if you can get the u.s. and israel to agree, then you have a solution. not complicated stuff.
@rysw19 Since this is total bullshit, I'll call you on it. Exactly what solution does the whole world including Palestine (what entity is that anyway? Hamas? Fatah? The Third Way?), minus the US and Israel agree upon? Please do inform us of the terms.
@ProSensuCommuni What entity? Wow, maybe you haven't heard of the PLO? Look up UN 242, signed in 1967. It establishes an international border which has been breeched repeatedly since then by Israel, backed by the U.S. (i.e. settlements not within their borders). Shortly thereafter, the U.S. realized the strategic value of Israel, and turned it into a client state (today half of our international aid goes to them). Since the change in stance, the U.S. has vetoed over 40 UN peace resolutions.
@rysw19 Yes, I know what the PLO is; it is not "[P]alestine". Israel accepted UN 242 in 1967, and still do. So does the U.S. As late as July last year, Abbas said that the only thing stopping a war with Israel is the other Arab nations unwillingness to fight; that does no sound like "Termination of all claims [...] of belligerency", which is the exact wording of UN 242. Hamas reject UN 242. UN 242 does not establish an exact border; it only states that there should be one. Conspiracy nut?
all that is because it says so in the... old testament?! shall we all return to the lands our distant ancestors' lands. for me, long live... the Anglo-Saxons? last time I heard, if i claimed that right, that would be close to racism.
the Palestinians live there for hundreds of years, with villages, homes, farms, a culture. but that is no evidence at all for you. you want them off the land, to move to the next country, as if a common language means they are the same people!
Devastating example of intellectual power from Prof. Chomsky. My own personal dealings with him support the fact that he wields this power without misusing or abusing it. The Finkelstein/Dershowitz debate on Democracy Now is also worth checking out here on YouTube.
Palestinian community ? Are you kidding ... what is the nature of the Palestinian community ?
Since Palestinians live in Israel ... why is that that Israeli settlements in Palestinian territory is somehow worse than terrorist acts that kill people ?
Palestinians are fighting for the destruction of Israel ... if they cannot get that, they sure do not want one single Jew living on Palestinian land - but they do not want Palestinians living in Israel now to have to move over to Palestine.
Palestinians live in Israel. Where their ancestors lived! Israeli settlements live in Palestinian territory. Settlers, on new land!
You can't even differentiate between the two. The settlers are illegal. Invading what you even say in your post: Palestinian territory. The Palestinian Authority has accepted the state of Israel, yet NO Israeli government has accepted a Palestinian state.
you can't be serious! you're just repeating the same "misinformation" over and over again. Israel didn't exist, and the settlers did't even live in those settlements before Israel existed. those Palestinians living in Israel, and all those living in the occupied territories (NOT disputed) have been living there for generations. and it is Israel that has been slowly and steadily fighting for the destruction of Palestine for over 60 years!
@ivanoschen this is true to some extent, but dershowitz lost the argument before it even began. it's just not really a defensible position from the get-go.
@falelesa it doesnt even matter who the land historically belongs to, North America historically belongs to the native americans, but is there a native american country? no, there is canada, and the united states, whath appened to the indians? why dont they get a country? where was israel before 1948? there was an israel thousands of years ago i understand that, but taht does not mean out of nowhere u can reclaim the land and disrupt the lives of the local population, there wasnt israel be4 1948
The "lack of national identity" is always simply the charge against "other" peoples created by nationalists---peoples regimented into a war state demonize those with what's usually called loose confederacy, like the Minoan/Island peoples of original Greece, the Sea Peoples, Etruscans, etc.---Such peoples did not "lack" a group identity, they had different and more free ways of expressing it.
@Dionysos37 I don't think it's a case of tomato tomahto. The Palestinians were politically immature in the first half of the 20th century and their national identity was weak in comparison to the Jewish immigrants to Palestine. That said, it's still not much of an argument for taking over a land and governing it's people.
@falelesa Who cares about ancient history? I hope Israel does live long and prosper, but not because some Jews lived there a few thousand years ago. I also hope the Palestinians live long and prosper, but not because they claim the land is historically theirs. Neither side will ever agree on the accuracy of either claim, and it only leads to more hatred, more violence, and no peace.
East Jerusalem has never been the CENTER of ANYTHING Palestinian. Ramallah is the center of Palestinian political life now. Just saying it does not make it so!!!
israel DOES NOT want a two state solution. alan dershowitz may keep talking like a maniac - doesnt matter. israel wants full occupation... n US govt has always been in favor of that.
Chomsky's strength is devotion to historical fact as opposed to fickle opinion.
and history seems to paint an image of an Israeli leadership with a total lack of regard for palestianian life or truth or justice as exemplified by the Deir Yassin massacre and many similar acts and policies since. not that all Israelis are so depraved but at least guilty of letting such people represent them.
@ImTehWord Did you even watch the debate ? Chomsky quotes facts that are of PUBLIC record and of verifiable sources which can be checked easily if you willing to do the research.
Of course seeing as you deny reality what do facts matter to you ?
@kenleemar Do you even understand why Israel has been recieving subsidies from the United States. I suggest you study the the Cold War era. Israel was viewed during that time as a suitable idea due it being the only democratic power in the region. United States wanted influence in the middle east region (for natural resources, oil etc...). Russia the other dominant power sided with Egypt while the United States sided with Israel.
@kenleemar Furthermore, you must also understand that Israel as among the leading countries in science and technology. Per population they are considerably at the top in technological advancement.
wafa sultan is a charlatan who takes out words of a sentence and twists them. Of course if you have superficial to no knowledge, everything she says makes sense to you. On the other side, if you do have a deeper knowledge of anything she talks about, then you are able to see the contradictions and lies.
...Why can't we just share??? Seriously the middle east is ruled by freaking children, if the Holy Land is significant to both people's then they are BOTH entitled to it, there you go.
who's home is it exactly? jerusalem has been conquered more times than any other place on earth, no one can ever truly "own" it, and i'm not following your rent analogy
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At the end of 1987 and first quarter of 1988 Sadam Hussein launched a state organized 6 months gas attack on the Iraqi Kurdish population. The world knew, and didn't do anything. We Israelis do not have the luxury of loosing a war, because we will be exterminated. Israel is the only place on earth that is our home by history. The holocaust proved us Jews that without a home of our own - we'll be killed. We do not want the faith of the Kurdish - we want to live.
"Our race is the Master Race. We are divine gods on this planet. We are as different from the inferior races as they are from insects. In fact, compared to our race, other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best. Other races are considered as human excrement. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our earthly kingdom will be ruled by our leader with a rod of iron. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as our slaves." - Israeli prime Minister Menachem Begin
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The guy , despite his reptuation is a blithering idiot. Israel is not occupying the west bank according international law. Prior to Israel's the west bank, which was granted to the Jewish people by the League of Nations in the Balfour declaration of 1917, was seized by Jordan in 1948. Prior to that it was taken by the imperialist British illegally from the Ottoman Turks. There were no fakestinians until 1967 and there was never any national entity of Arab muslims on the land of Israel
there was never any national identity of north american indians either. should we abuse the palestinians because they didn't have the paperwork, a "national identity" before? no! give them their homeland back! there was no israel before 1948, did that occur to you? why do they get a country??
Because political divisions created by European imperialist policy magically makes that level of injustice exist. If we look at history, we'll indeed realize that every single native people on the planet has been abused using those very same
principles. Despite the massive propaganda associated with the justification of the very existence of Israel, one must be completely blind, or a gigantic hypocrite to deny the simple fact that before there was an Israel, the land was not "empty".
"We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying. Allon repeated his question, What is to be done with the Palestinian population?' Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said 'Drive them out!'" Yitzhak Rabin, leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published in the New York Times, 23 October 1979.
WHAT ZIONIST ISRAEL IS DOING IS EXACTLY THE SAME AS WHAT THE NAZIS DID, AND IT WILL BE SEEN AS SUCH IN HISTORY, THERE IS YET A JEWISH STATE; BIT IT IS SICK & DEPRAVED WITH THE BLOOD OF INNOCENCE
You must be mistaking me for someone else. If you read my posts you'll realize that you're preaching to the converted. I haven't said a word in support of the Israeli Gov., much the contrary.
So I don't know what you're talking about...well, I do, I just don't see why you;re directing your criticism "at" me, vis a vis my ample support for the Palestinian cause.
@withIsrael actually, its not, these damn indians abuse their powers and put up casinos and other things which are illegal on their so called "reservation land" they dont give a fuck about the nature, they are just like us.
Also, indians didnt have a land, they were tribemen with no borders.
@the81kid Ya... why do the jews deserve a country? Why should they be able to defend themselves? Why should they have a place to go should another holocaust start up?
Native Americans are welcome in the US off the reservation if they want. They can go to the reservation wheneven they want to or if they want to. Totally different from Israel-Palestine.
Why does Chomsky have to reframe the whole history ... it is just bullying trying to look like the authority to people who do not know any better.
Where does Chomsky get all his support ? ... he would be nothing if he did not bash Israel like he does.
@justgivemethetruth Yes, because it's just easy as that for natives to stray off the reserve and start life anew.
You ask where Chomsky gets it's support. That is a mere non-sequitor. Here's a better question: Where does Israel get it's? It would be nothing if they did not scare people with the boogeyman that is their neighbouring countries.
I find your name ironic, but based on your past comments, you're merely an astroturfer for Israel, paid or not.
Native Americans are free to leave. That is true: now. And it is a different situation. Even Noam Chomsky says so in another video. My point was denying a people rights, or right to self-determination - based on a "lack of original nation".
Noam Chomsky is a hugely respected academic, and the world's foremost in the field of linguistics, plus other subjects. You say he is bullying us because we know no better?! "Bashing" Israel is light punishment for their crimes.
I just read and listen to as much as possible. Be it Wikipedia, You Tube, Norman Finkelstein (he has a big mouth, but I can't argue with his logic or facts), Noam Chomsky, Derschowitz, mainstream media, non-mainstream media. Even propaganda is helpful. Because sometimes it is so obvious, you can see right through it. I would say beware of people who use insults or name-calling, in place of facts and argument.
@the81kid The Jews agreed to the British plan,The Arabs didn't.They started a war and lost their territory.Now they are crying out loud and want it back.
@GTXMAN exactly and they also want it back because the jews turned it into an OASIS of orchards and great things, whereas when the arabs it was simply sand and rocks....
@GTXMAN exactly and they also want it back because the jews turned it into an OASIS of orchards and great things, whereas when the arabshad it , it was simply sand and rocks....
How dare the Arabs didn't agree to a colony state planted in their midst. Palestinians have a right to self-determination. No claiming "God gave us the land", just generations living there for hundreds of years. Homes. Farms. Olive groves. Universities.
Read you history books please. The reason Israel "got a country" (and there was an Israel before 1948) is because they accepted the U.N. resolution that granted them the land. The reason the Palestinians don't have a country is due to the fact that they rejected the same resolution because it created the state of Israel and they didn't want Israel to have it's own state. Then for that same reason, they started a war RIGHT AFTER this and loss the land that their begging to get back.
How many times can you contradict yourself? If Israel accepted the UN resolution, why are they settling and occupying the Palestinian's land - as given to them by a UN agreement?!
You have also just admitted that Israel acquired the land through war. Which is illegal internationally! Stop claiming UN resolutions for yourself and ignoring them for others' rights. One rule for you, and nothing for the Palestinians.
Read history books. Then apply to everyone equally.
@the81kid "If Israel accepted the UN resolution, why are they settling and occupying the Palestinian's land"
Did you see UN (actually UK plan) partition plan? This could exist only on one condition - Both sides agree to it.
Arabs reject it and attempt take whole land by force this killed "UN" original plan and following 19yr occupation of so called Palestine BY ARAB COUNTRIES killed any legitimacy of so called Palestinian.
Any other country would just deport arabs and be done with it.
"Did you see UN (actually UK plan) partition plan? This could exist only on one condition - Both sides agree to it."
I don't understand what exactly you are saying here, but it seems that you are using the Arabs attempts (the Palestinian attempts) to fight for their land back is now being used by you as an excuse... an excuse for the occupation. The occupation is illegal. You claim on UN resolution verifies Israel's existence, and another one invalid.
BTW principal decision on Israel was made before UN by LoN and with agreement of Arab leader of the time.
UN role was minimal. They give blessing to two state that was presented by Brits and wash hand of this problem.
For all practical reasons they(UN and Brits) just set up jews for next Holocaust putting divided, ill survivors of Holocaust against states with standing professional armies, well equipped and trained.
UN is great idea and it may work one day but not today
Make up your mind. Does the UN legitimize Israel, or is the UN irrelevant? You cannot have both. And while you argue and try to distract everyone... the Palestinians who lived there for generations have been forced from their homes, occupied and oppressed. That is what matters.
Your "logic" is if UN made one right decision then all decisions are right? LOL
UN is relevant and important organization and move in right direction BUT.
UN reflect our world and as you may know majority countries member of UN represent brutal dictatorships, totalitarian regimes and corrupt medieval kingdoms. So while UN has a few positive thing and hopefully become better atm its just pathetic thing. Libya use to be a in Council of UN HUMAN RIGHTS! Iran defender of women rights.
you are saying: you can pick and choose what UN resolutions you accept - whatever is beneficial for you. and blame the Palestinians for the rest. they didn't want to divide their homelands - why should they? i'm still waiting for a good reason for why Israel should have right to take their land...
"you are saying: you can pick and choose what UN resolutions you accept"
I'm debating on facts and common sense not on good or bad resolution of UN but common sense and facts.
@the81kid "they didn't want to divide their homelands - why should they?"
You argue that jews can't claim this land on the ground they own it 2000 yr ago but fact is this region was owned by Ottomans for about 500yr and UK for 30yr. On what ground arabs claim statehood? They conquer this land 1000 yr ago?
It was owned by the Ottomans (who were far from perfect), and the Palestinians lived there for hundreds of years. Now it is owned by the Israelis, and there are millions of refugees forced out of their homes. You are debating facts, but choosing UN resolutions based on your common sense. Not on international law. Claiming Palestinians turned down one resolution, claiming a UN resolution gives Israel legitimacy... and ignoring the resolutions Israel ignores.
The Jews you mean are the ones who were expelled nearly 2,000 years ago. The Palestinians (and some Jews) here now have lived here for hundreds of years.
"No dear champ. I'm claiming that Arabs have not obey ANY rule of civility and law."
And so starts the name-calling. That statement shows your prejudice against all Arabs.
"How many ORIGINAL refugees have been made by Israeli Arab conflict. I bet you have no idea"
"One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail." -- Rabbi Yaacov Perrin, Feb. 27, 1994 [Source: N.Y. Times, Feb. 28, 1994, p. 1]
"We Jews, we are the destroyers and will remain the destroyers. Nothing you can do will meet our demands and needs. We will forever destroy because we want a world of our own." (You Gentiles, by Jewish Author Maurice Samuels, p. 155).
I'm sorry to burst your bubble but Israel does give preferential treatment to Jews over any other pre-requisite for immigration. In fact, Israel searches outwards for immigrants of Jewish heritage to enter its borders , with ample benefits to "settle" in. Hence the debate over settlements, illegal settlements under international law, mind you.
Perhaps you are the one in need of learning a bit more about international law, Israeli immigration requirements, and pure common sense.
Horseshit? Go look it up. You want real democracies? Germany, Switzerland, and Sweden adhere to this as well. There is a real attachment; even if you don't believe in the religion, the fact is that we were there for thousands of years, wayyy before "Palestine" was invented by Romans. Unless you can find some Canaanites that want their land back, Jews have a much better claim to Israel than Canadians to theirs, you hypocritical leech.
Dumb examples? hahaha Again, find a new obsession.
You don't understand anything. There's one Jewish state. Christians in Mexico don't need a Christian state to protect them, as there's plenty. The Land of Israel is the only homeland the Jewish people has ever had.
of course there gonna impose laws preventing the immigration of warring states citizens in Israel. remind if im wrong but are Cuban's allowed to move to America?
and again there's nothing from stopping a muslim, or christain from getting Israeli citizenship, your talking about granting hostile entities citienzship in Israel, which is complelty different
Really? Was Israel just fine until the Balfour dec. and the West decided to hand you a country on a silver platter?
Don't deny you need the West....we created Israeli pigs! We can also fix that mistake by cutting funding...it's only a matter of time. Sympathy for the Holocaust is running out as generations get older.
Israel handed over on a silver platter? please remind me but the creation of ISrael brought about a war for Israel's survival where not only did west place a trade embargo on Israel, but armed and suppplied the arab armies, thats not a silver platter
regardless of what u think, thats the way this world works, and Israel was surviving just fine when the western world had imposed trade embargo's on it.
Judaism brings peace of mind, a better understanding of not only of one self, but of one another, it give moral structure and the list goes on. also you should note that Israel is a secular state, seperated from religion, but it consists of jews who fight for a country where jews can be jews without prosecution,
maybe u should learn some Canadian history well your at it, when Canada used to be a christain nation, only in 2nd half of the 20th century did religion and government seperate.
this notion of yours that religion can have no impact on government policies in a real democracy shows how you really dont understand anything about how this world or countries work, please do this world a favor any stop typing on politics when u cant grasp the simplest terms like what a democracy is
Please don't respond with more definitions of democracy...you clearly don't understand how the concept of "1 man, 1 vote" is ruined when you streamline immigration to get a predominately Jewish voting base.
What if mostly White Christians were selected to be Americans?? Think that America would tend to vote only one way then? If ethnic patterns happen naturally or historically then fine...but you can't manufacture them and call yourself a democracy. GET IT?
Chomsky is probably the smartest person alive, and in this clip, it boggles the mind as to why he has to debate this issue. It's very obvious that he's correct about Palestine, correct about Israel. Dershowtiz just gets smoked here.
DemCatBo 4 days ago
I like how every pro-israel person can not accept even one negative thing about their country and leader, definitely a sign of delusion.
cadnewham 1 month ago
@kiefko "palestinian hordes" - guess we will be ignoring everything you have to say
cadnewham 1 month ago
The wall has saved Israli lives - Homicide bombers from entering Israle
darkrevel 4 months ago
@darkrevel maybe suicide attacks have saved arab lives. because there were israeli soldiers killed.
captain2ahab 2 weeks ago
Chomsky has no solution to propose. He does not seem to be interested in proposing a solution. He prefer to deliver damning speeches.
dvlasenko1 4 months ago
@dvlasenko1
Indeed, the truth hurts but only those who have a sense of shame.
OrodesIII 2 months ago
MR. DERSHOWITZ IS A FAR MORE PRECISE IN BOTH TRUTH AND ACTUAL FACTS DELIVERIES ABOUT THE REALITY OF THE SITUATION IN THE MIDDLE EAST, AND BETWEEN THE STATE OF ISRAEL AND PALESTINIANS HORDES. TO SAY SHORT ABOUT CHOMSKY AND HIS OUT OF THIS WORLD ARGUMENTATION, DEFENCES AND WORDY DEJA-VU LINQUISTIC VOYAGER, THE RED ONE IN COLOR WHEN DEATH FOR GOOD, ARE JUST SILLY AND NONSENCE, NOT WORTH EVEN TO LISTEN TO. NO, IT'S MR. DERSHOWITH WHO ENTERTAINES WITH TRUTH, IS REALLY THE OWNER OF IT
kiefko 4 months ago
@kiefko stop screaming, will you
captain2ahab 2 weeks ago
Has anyone noticed how Chomsky's most vociferous haters happen to be the Zionist, pro-Israel people? Kinda wierd if you ask m--oh wait, the Jewish Lobby. That explains it all.
mojorhythm 4 months ago
We are almost at the end of 2011 and still Israel continues to build settlements in occupied territories - all illegal. So you can imagine, after the time this was recorded, the modus operandi still has not changed and Israel is doing exactly what they wish to do at the expense of the Palestinians.
Magenta408 4 months ago
Its true, Dershowitz has it tough. It isn't easy defending the Israeli state. Thirty five years of a brutal occupation, enforced by a warmachine and the excessive use of terror tactics. Israel has also skillfully utilized mainstream media in the US to subdue the masses.
Chomsky's got the highground.
Free Palestine.
guitarmatt211 6 months ago 21
its seem like only few on the planet left with brain working on rational lines...
jawadtlg 7 months ago
So much more impressive is Chomsky with his closely argued accurately referenced presentation than is Dershowitz with his slick and misleading sophistry.
bodie9991 7 months ago
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Hey PaliNazi, your lips, my ass... they should meet.
The so called “Palestinians” of today,
do not represent a nation or people,
merely a bunch of Wannabe-Nazis.
Kish meir Yiddische Tuchus.
TheSanRemoResolution 7 months ago
All I can see is that Chomsky gets all the clapping in the debate and supported the most by youtube comments and I don't have to tell anyone that The law of Media is......THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT..........Go Chomsky!
mimiyan2 7 months ago
@mimiyan2 yes that's why Ke$sha is clearly one of the greatest musicians of all time, and the Transformers 2: Revenge of the Fallen deserved to win best picture.
If you didn't get the sarcasm: people are fucking idiots. Of course they agree with Chomsky. Chomsky is no idiot, but his position is completely wrong, he's an idiot on this issue, and that appeals to the masses who are in general slobbering knuckle-draggers.
kalbahamut 4 months ago
@kalbahamut What exactly is he wrong about? You offer no explanations.
TDO59 3 months ago
@TDO59 figure it out yourself. I'm not going to try to make a well-annotated argument in 500 characters.
kalbahamut 3 months ago
I don't always agree with Chomsky but it's pretty obvious he is intellectually light years ahead of Herr Dershowitz....Also just seems like a better person.
MrJdouble1998 7 months ago 21
left and lefter
cpnankin 8 months ago
4:25 I understand where she's coming from.
Howsonify 9 months ago
Chomsky could not survive outside his ivory tower for a second.
He might be a genius and great intellect but total moron in simple common sense. Democratic countries are attempting to establish rule of law and civility to live by not to die by. When they confronted by evil like nazi they take gloves of and so and Israel.
UK/US bomb hell out german and japanese cities. A few days ago Obama assassinate Usama on territory of sov.state and dump body
Some enemy does not deserve any consideration.
Greywind30 9 months ago
@Greywind30 like the Chilean elected president Allende who was overthrown by a US backed coup -at behest of ITT- whereby fascist Pinochet emerged as a military dictator to protect US investment?
Is that a "democratic country. attempting to establish rule of law"? Who is evil in this equation? US policies are not about good or evil.if a evil leader is killed in the process of Imperialism then all the better, but don't fool yourself into believing that its the contingent variable.
mcshobe2008 9 months ago 2
@Greywind30 "Democratic countries are attempting to establish rule of law and civility to live by not to die by." This statement is utterly meaningless. "Democratic countries"? Which ones? You think democracies are the same everywhere? Do you live in the US? Do you realize how little power the people actually have over their government in this country? The democracy you probably have in mind is more like a farcical narrative about democracy that you get from people who think like Dershowitz.
otenacityo 9 months ago
@otenacityo "Democratic countries"? Which ones? You think democracies are the same everywhere?"
Of course I know there are different kind of democracy and there is no such thing as "pure democracy"
Its going without saying. So? What is your point? There is no difference between totalitarian regime like in Cuba or dictatorship like Syria and any of Wester democracies?
Greywind30 9 months ago
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The so called "Palestinians" of today
do not represent a nation or people,
merely a bunch of Wannabe-Nazis.
ThePrideOfIsrael 10 months ago
Before I heard Chomsky I thought I knew something about this conflict. After listening to him, I realize I know so little as to disqualify me from having an opinion on this matter. I wish more people reserved having opinions until they knew somethign about what they were talking about.
zzzak123 10 months ago 3
@zzzak123 Great comment,Opinions have little to do with facts,Chomsky quotes facts and Dershowitz holds to an opinion.Its better to state a humble fact of not knowing than to hang on to an opinion
mrbrianmoran 8 months ago
Chomsky makes Dershowitz look the lightweight he is in comparison
glenninovsky 10 months ago
Here is little info for open minded people.
About 700k arabs became refugee as results if 1948. Everyone knows it but who knows about other wave of refugees whole 600k of them? Very a few. I'm talking about jewish refugees from Muslim countries. They left with nothing more then what they wear but unlike arabs jews take care of own. Arabs stole from them land 4x of ENTIRE ISRAEL,
Land they own well before Islam
Greywind30 11 months ago 2
@Greywind30 so two wrongs make...?
MrCoreyCole 9 months ago
@MrCoreyCole
So to make two wrong in one right you have to take in account both cases.
Greywind30 9 months ago
In otherword Mr Douch is approving Israel to rape and distroy Palestine and their people!
commander272727 11 months ago
@commander272727 palestine does the same, just shutup
EternalIntelligence 11 months ago
How is a self described "ARAB" indigenous outside of ARABIA>.
Someone needs to explain that trick to me...I must have missed where Arabs didnt invade and colonize the rest of the middle east.
zaxx19 11 months ago
Chomsky always very plainly just lays out the facts and the debate is pretty much over
oihhow 11 months ago
@oihhow The facts are...what exactly?
Arabs rejected a 2 state solution until it became clear they couldnt do a thing militarily to kill the Jews.
Now Arabs have shifted to a secondary strategy...death by demographics. Get a foothold in there...and then pry the rest loose with rights of return or high birthrates. Given the declining Palestinian fertility(for nearly 20 yrs now) and the mushrooming Haredi birthrate(and shift towards more of the Israeli Jewish population being Haredi ....
zaxx19 11 months ago
Israel became a state in 1312 B.C., two millennium before Islam. Arab refugees from Israel began calling themselves "Palestinians" in 1967, two decades after (modern) Israeli statehood in 1948. After conquering the land in 1272 B.C., Israelis ruled it for a thousand years and maintained a continuous presence there for 3,300 years
Kimmymtl 11 months ago
let's make things simple!!! The Jews don't want peace neither do the Palestinians.The Jews have stolen their land and have built on the occupied territory.The Jews have violated numerous world laws and UN resolutions.They make the Palestinians carry ids to enter their own neighborhoods.The Jews do not belong in Palestine.The US should give then a piece of land in Alaska.A white man doesn't belong in black Harlem and a Jew doesn't belong in the middle east surrounded by a 100 million arabs.
themetalgod21 11 months ago
@themetalgod21
Do you want it simple? Here it is before Israel this land was a waist land. Swamps, desert, rocks, no industry, no agriculture to speak of. Jews build first class country that excel in every way agriculture, industry, science, art, education and they kick ass. If not for Israel you would be speaking russian.
Greywind30 11 months ago
Dershowitz's stomach must be sinking every 10 seconds... thinking "damn, he got me. how am i going to justify that?"
fathermckenzie1 11 months ago
@falelesa Imagine all the wars if all the people in the world started to claim lands they had thousands of years ago. Would be a huge mess.
TinyArts 11 months ago
@TinyArts
Justification for Israel is not so much ancient Israel but a fact that jews always had been there throw the millenniums.
Granted as minority but sizable minority. In end of 19th century jews start to return and buy land legally. After WW1 zionist made a move with agreement of Brits and ARAB LEADERS of that time
Greywind30 11 months ago
@Greywind30 There has been sizable minoritys of jews in many European countrys. Is that a justification for taking over the land? If romans returned to Israel and legally bought land and became a sizable minority would you accept if they took over the land or would you fight them?
TinyArts 11 months ago
@TinyArts
You conveniently forget other part. After WW1 Brits, LoN AND ARAB LEADERS (its in cap for a reason) agreed to make Israel in BRITISH mandate of Palestine.
It might be not good reason today but by standards of that time it was perfectly just and sensible.
Greywind30 11 months ago
@Greywind30 So the decline of the Ottoman Empire after ww1 had nothing to do with it? America and Britain gave financial support to any arab uprisings in the Ottoman occupied territorys because Turkey was a member of the trippel alliance during ww1, a enemy of britain, france and america. So Palestine became British after ww1, i know that :) but what is your point? "Israel in british mandate of Palestine" Israel was created 1948, i don't understand you.
TinyArts 11 months ago
@TinyArts
Tenants (jews) in condo want to buy majority of house. They are paying above market price because of sentimental reasons. They also promise renovate building and neighborhood. Nobody ask for discount because long ago entire condo was jewish and taken away by force. See?
Landlord (Brits) argee
Other tenants (arabs) agree
City authority (LoN) agree
Jews move in paying 10x real price than other tenant change mind.
Is it simple enough for you?
Greywind30 11 months ago
If you look at "original partition plan of Palestine" you will see it's a crazy idea in first place both Jewish and Arab states divided in 3 main land patches. Two of them connected by one road and third totally separate. Just take a look. The only way it could possibly happen if two tribes attempt to live in peace.
FACT is Jews agreed and Arabs reject it and keep rejecting it and I have all reason to believe they dont offer real peace even now but just maneuver Israel in vulnerable position
Greywind30 11 months ago
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Chomsky - stupid old man....
ZobaK1 1 year ago
I'm glad to see that people with brains realize that Dershowitz is a snake.
gosillygirl 1 year ago 61
@gosillygirl Chomsky is the snake. Are you saying that Harvard has no brains for granting Dershowitz tenure at the university? Sounds like a contradiction in early formation. Chomsky is against Israel. Dershowitz is for Israel. Without Israel, Jews would have no home, no culture, and thusly nothing to look forward to. This is our home.
EternalIntelligence 11 months ago
@EternalIntelligence Chomsky isn't "against Israel," he's a self-professed Zionist. Just because one calls for Israel to stop its crimes and violations of human rights -- a description that comes from the UN, Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, B'Tselem and others -- does not mean one is "against Israel." You're grossly oversimplifying. Those who claim to support Israel should be among the first to call upon their government to stop committing their crimes, just as with any other country.
cryptickripke 10 months ago
@gosillygirl Shut up, moron, before I snake you.
Dave19141918 7 months ago in playlist Chomsky and Dershowitz debate Israel and Palestine
@Dave19141918 be a man
CCSF1999 5 months ago in playlist Chomsky and Dershowitz debate Israel and Palestine
I immediately jumped straight to this video because the preceding three videos are dominated by that fabricating snake deceitful spiteful liar Dershowitz, an advocate of genocide of the Lebanese population and a blind ignorant fool.
alien1tau9 1 year ago
Chomsky looks soo cute :)
Ashkadian 1 year ago
I got one, take all Israelis and settle them in the US.
aMagicalUnic0rn 1 year ago
@aMagicalUnic0rn
I got a better one, take all Palestinians and settle them in Jordan.
anastamotic 1 year ago
@anastamotic Even better than that... Find all Israelis who don't have documents proving land/ property ownership before Israel was created - i.e. fraudulent documents started being issued - and send them back to America, Britain, Eastern Europe/ Russia, Australia... If they resist this most generous offer, ask them if they would prefer to be dropped in the drink instead. Problem solved!
umaralansari 1 year ago
@umaralansari
Why would we send those Jews back? Every country allows for immigration, and the extent to which they do so is no one else's business but their own. The U.S. for example is VERY generous with it's immigration policy.
anastamotic 1 year ago
If you think of reasons to get things done and are pragmatic and willing to give something up, then a thing will get done. If you make a list of why something cannot get done and resort to details, pedantry and absolutes then a thing will not get done. Chomsky's way will never help Palestinians. He is interested in academic arguments about right and wrong and not reality that involves taking what you can get a cutting your losses. Otherwise, Israel will just slowly eat up the West Bank.
James2010May 1 year ago
@James2010May the whole world (including palestine, but minus the u.s. and israel) agrees on what the solution would be. if you can get the u.s. and israel to agree, then you have a solution. not complicated stuff.
rysw19 1 year ago
@rysw19 Since this is total bullshit, I'll call you on it. Exactly what solution does the whole world including Palestine (what entity is that anyway? Hamas? Fatah? The Third Way?), minus the US and Israel agree upon? Please do inform us of the terms.
ProSensuCommuni 1 year ago
@ProSensuCommuni What entity? Wow, maybe you haven't heard of the PLO? Look up UN 242, signed in 1967. It establishes an international border which has been breeched repeatedly since then by Israel, backed by the U.S. (i.e. settlements not within their borders). Shortly thereafter, the U.S. realized the strategic value of Israel, and turned it into a client state (today half of our international aid goes to them). Since the change in stance, the U.S. has vetoed over 40 UN peace resolutions.
rysw19 1 year ago
@rysw19 Yes, I know what the PLO is; it is not "[P]alestine". Israel accepted UN 242 in 1967, and still do. So does the U.S. As late as July last year, Abbas said that the only thing stopping a war with Israel is the other Arab nations unwillingness to fight; that does no sound like "Termination of all claims [...] of belligerency", which is the exact wording of UN 242. Hamas reject UN 242. UN 242 does not establish an exact border; it only states that there should be one. Conspiracy nut?
ProSensuCommuni 1 year ago
too bad the Ottoman Empire went down, they controlled all this fucking bullshit.
odin422 1 year ago
@falelesa
all that is because it says so in the... old testament?! shall we all return to the lands our distant ancestors' lands. for me, long live... the Anglo-Saxons? last time I heard, if i claimed that right, that would be close to racism.
the Palestinians live there for hundreds of years, with villages, homes, farms, a culture. but that is no evidence at all for you. you want them off the land, to move to the next country, as if a common language means they are the same people!
the81kid 1 year ago
Devastating example of intellectual power from Prof. Chomsky. My own personal dealings with him support the fact that he wields this power without misusing or abusing it. The Finkelstein/Dershowitz debate on Democracy Now is also worth checking out here on YouTube.
EmmaYaBasta 1 year ago
Veritas? Dershowitz shouldn't be working within the context of an institution that purports to stand for truth.
MercierBradleyMichae 1 year ago
Palestinian community ? Are you kidding ... what is the nature of the Palestinian community ?
Since Palestinians live in Israel ... why is that that Israeli settlements in Palestinian territory is somehow worse than terrorist acts that kill people ?
Palestinians are fighting for the destruction of Israel ... if they cannot get that, they sure do not want one single Jew living on Palestinian land - but they do not want Palestinians living in Israel now to have to move over to Palestine.
justgivemethetruth 1 year ago
@justgivemethetruth
Palestinians live in Israel. Where their ancestors lived! Israeli settlements live in Palestinian territory. Settlers, on new land!
You can't even differentiate between the two. The settlers are illegal. Invading what you even say in your post: Palestinian territory. The Palestinian Authority has accepted the state of Israel, yet NO Israeli government has accepted a Palestinian state.
the81kid 1 year ago
@justgivemethetruth
you can't be serious! you're just repeating the same "misinformation" over and over again. Israel didn't exist, and the settlers did't even live in those settlements before Israel existed. those Palestinians living in Israel, and all those living in the occupied territories (NOT disputed) have been living there for generations. and it is Israel that has been slowly and steadily fighting for the destruction of Palestine for over 60 years!
the81kid 1 year ago
The difference of level is apparent between Chomsky and Dershowitz
ivanoschen 1 year ago 52
@ivanoschen or the level of difference
MrCoreyCole 9 months ago
@ivanoschen this is true to some extent, but dershowitz lost the argument before it even began. it's just not really a defensible position from the get-go.
rysw19 7 months ago
@ivanoschen
muslimgiga 5 months ago
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holacaust is a myth, and everyone knows that.
With time now israel will pay a heavy price for these crimes.
They started the 1st ww and the 2nd ww.
lie allwasy they are the main criminal.Time to build up Hezbollah:
everyone who look at my comment have to see TALMUD as well to understand the filthynes of the zionist.
desiman1 1 year ago
@falelesa it doesnt even matter who the land historically belongs to, North America historically belongs to the native americans, but is there a native american country? no, there is canada, and the united states, whath appened to the indians? why dont they get a country? where was israel before 1948? there was an israel thousands of years ago i understand that, but taht does not mean out of nowhere u can reclaim the land and disrupt the lives of the local population, there wasnt israel be4 1948
tupacIzAlive33 1 year ago
The "lack of national identity" is always simply the charge against "other" peoples created by nationalists---peoples regimented into a war state demonize those with what's usually called loose confederacy, like the Minoan/Island peoples of original Greece, the Sea Peoples, Etruscans, etc.---Such peoples did not "lack" a group identity, they had different and more free ways of expressing it.
Dionysos37 1 year ago 2
@Dionysos37 I don't think it's a case of tomato tomahto. The Palestinians were politically immature in the first half of the 20th century and their national identity was weak in comparison to the Jewish immigrants to Palestine. That said, it's still not much of an argument for taking over a land and governing it's people.
GorterPoss 1 year ago 2
@GorterPoss
A logical point.
the81kid 1 year ago
@falelesa Who cares about ancient history? I hope Israel does live long and prosper, but not because some Jews lived there a few thousand years ago. I also hope the Palestinians live long and prosper, but not because they claim the land is historically theirs. Neither side will ever agree on the accuracy of either claim, and it only leads to more hatred, more violence, and no peace.
MrElasticplastic 1 year ago
East Jerusalem has never been the CENTER of ANYTHING Palestinian. Ramallah is the center of Palestinian political life now. Just saying it does not make it so!!!
flierumph 1 year ago
@flierumph So does that justify evicting Palestinians from East Jerusalem?
MrElasticplastic 1 year ago
chomsky is such a deranged piece of work. kapo!
holseyd 1 year ago
@holseyd Do you have anything in particular to rebuke? I didn't think so, moron.
kevinjim33 1 year ago
israel DOES NOT want a two state solution. alan dershowitz may keep talking like a maniac - doesnt matter. israel wants full occupation... n US govt has always been in favor of that.
nagarajaramalinga 1 year ago 2
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the palestinians are not a nation. 50 years ago there was no mention of such entity.
torchur chambers? ha this professor is a real maniac. heard what Hamas did to UNRA camp for children?
XSW1000 1 year ago
Chomsky's strength is devotion to historical fact as opposed to fickle opinion.
and history seems to paint an image of an Israeli leadership with a total lack of regard for palestianian life or truth or justice as exemplified by the Deir Yassin massacre and many similar acts and policies since. not that all Israelis are so depraved but at least guilty of letting such people represent them.
DanFrederiksen 1 year ago 2
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I feel like dershowitz is a bastard child of satan lol come on don't tell me you can't see it either
habbs23 1 year ago
Dershowitz made accusations of harmful opinions of others. Chomsky states facts, easliy checked.
Darean51 1 year ago
@Darean51 chomsky only qoutes people, these are no facts.
ImTehWord 1 year ago
@ImTehWord Did you even watch the debate ? Chomsky quotes facts that are of PUBLIC record and of verifiable sources which can be checked easily if you willing to do the research.
Of course seeing as you deny reality what do facts matter to you ?
uchihaangelus 1 year ago 3
@uchihaangelus rightly said!
killah666786 1 year ago
We cannot afford to continue to spend billions of dollars to prop up Israel. They must stop being a welfare state,then stand or fall on their own
kenleemar 1 year ago
@kenleemar Do you even understand why Israel has been recieving subsidies from the United States. I suggest you study the the Cold War era. Israel was viewed during that time as a suitable idea due it being the only democratic power in the region. United States wanted influence in the middle east region (for natural resources, oil etc...). Russia the other dominant power sided with Egypt while the United States sided with Israel.
Fitplayer66 1 year ago
@kenleemar Furthermore, you must also understand that Israel as among the leading countries in science and technology. Per population they are considerably at the top in technological advancement.
Fitplayer66 1 year ago
wafa sultan is a charlatan who takes out words of a sentence and twists them. Of course if you have superficial to no knowledge, everything she says makes sense to you. On the other side, if you do have a deeper knowledge of anything she talks about, then you are able to see the contradictions and lies.
1culture1 2 years ago
Wow... the first time i hear Noam Chomsky talk.. i heard he is a radical leftist.. but i thought he was smart or something.
now i see that he doesn't even know how to debate..
dershowitz shuted him up..
1967TotalPWN 2 years ago
Jew bagle shall decease
mdekoo 2 years ago
...Why can't we just share??? Seriously the middle east is ruled by freaking children, if the Holy Land is significant to both people's then they are BOTH entitled to it, there you go.
Sharing = True Peace
Manatizzle89 2 years ago
would you want to share your home with a stranger, even though the burden of rent continues to fall squarely on your shoulders?
Of course you love peace and sharing... until your own interests are affected
gargantuandick 2 years ago
who's home is it exactly? jerusalem has been conquered more times than any other place on earth, no one can ever truly "own" it, and i'm not following your rent analogy
Manatizzle89 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
At the end of 1987 and first quarter of 1988 Sadam Hussein launched a state organized 6 months gas attack on the Iraqi Kurdish population. The world knew, and didn't do anything. We Israelis do not have the luxury of loosing a war, because we will be exterminated. Israel is the only place on earth that is our home by history. The holocaust proved us Jews that without a home of our own - we'll be killed. We do not want the faith of the Kurdish - we want to live.
TheLioninzion 2 years ago
Israel is an illegal state. You should get the hell out of the Palestinian's land and stop killing them.
awesomewelles90 2 years ago
LOL, thank you for that.
Benjiko 2 years ago
"Our race is the Master Race. We are divine gods on this planet. We are as different from the inferior races as they are from insects. In fact, compared to our race, other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best. Other races are considered as human excrement. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our earthly kingdom will be ruled by our leader with a rod of iron. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as our slaves." - Israeli prime Minister Menachem Begin
karlkarlkarl1234 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
The guy , despite his reptuation is a blithering idiot. Israel is not occupying the west bank according international law. Prior to Israel's the west bank, which was granted to the Jewish people by the League of Nations in the Balfour declaration of 1917, was seized by Jordan in 1948. Prior to that it was taken by the imperialist British illegally from the Ottoman Turks. There were no fakestinians until 1967 and there was never any national entity of Arab muslims on the land of Israel
jaythehistorian1 2 years ago
there was never any national identity of north american indians either. should we abuse the palestinians because they didn't have the paperwork, a "national identity" before? no! give them their homeland back! there was no israel before 1948, did that occur to you? why do they get a country??
the81kid 2 years ago 61
Because political divisions created by European imperialist policy magically makes that level of injustice exist. If we look at history, we'll indeed realize that every single native people on the planet has been abused using those very same
principles. Despite the massive propaganda associated with the justification of the very existence of Israel, one must be completely blind, or a gigantic hypocrite to deny the simple fact that before there was an Israel, the land was not "empty".
lapwiz 2 years ago
"We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying. Allon repeated his question, What is to be done with the Palestinian population?' Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said 'Drive them out!'" Yitzhak Rabin, leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published in the New York Times, 23 October 1979.
WHAT ZIONIST ISRAEL IS DOING IS EXACTLY THE SAME AS WHAT THE NAZIS DID, AND IT WILL BE SEEN AS SUCH IN HISTORY, THERE IS YET A JEWISH STATE; BIT IT IS SICK & DEPRAVED WITH THE BLOOD OF INNOCENCE
karlkarlkarl1234 2 years ago
You must be mistaking me for someone else. If you read my posts you'll realize that you're preaching to the converted. I haven't said a word in support of the Israeli Gov., much the contrary.
So I don't know what you're talking about...well, I do, I just don't see why you;re directing your criticism "at" me, vis a vis my ample support for the Palestinian cause.
lapwiz 2 years ago
@karlkarlkarl1234
it is not the same. they're two different evils.
the81kid 1 year ago
so i guess keeping the native americans in "reservations" is good enough for you...
withIsrael 2 years ago 16
@withIsrael
for me? i was not saying that at all.
the81kid 1 year ago
@withIsrael actually, its not, these damn indians abuse their powers and put up casinos and other things which are illegal on their so called "reservation land" they dont give a fuck about the nature, they are just like us.
Also, indians didnt have a land, they were tribemen with no borders.
so whats the law? they had none.
quezcatol 1 year ago
@quezcatol You can make up whatever you like and call it "law." Whatever is most convenient for you and legitimizes your own actions.
IntractableJ 1 year ago
@withIsrael Yes, it's good enough for me.
TheTopBloke 1 year ago
@the81kid Majority of the forum are stinking antisemites. These idiots prefer religious fascists to the democratic system
mbubennov 1 year ago
@the81kid Ya... why do the jews deserve a country? Why should they be able to defend themselves? Why should they have a place to go should another holocaust start up?
EmoLama1 1 year ago
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@EmoLama1 Jewish people are the only ones who can be victimized by genocide, in other words.
IntractableJ 1 year ago
@the81kid
Native Americans are welcome in the US off the reservation if they want. They can go to the reservation wheneven they want to or if they want to. Totally different from Israel-Palestine.
Why does Chomsky have to reframe the whole history ... it is just bullying trying to look like the authority to people who do not know any better.
Where does Chomsky get all his support ? ... he would be nothing if he did not bash Israel like he does.
justgivemethetruth 1 year ago
@justgivemethetruth Yes, because it's just easy as that for natives to stray off the reserve and start life anew.
You ask where Chomsky gets it's support. That is a mere non-sequitor. Here's a better question: Where does Israel get it's? It would be nothing if they did not scare people with the boogeyman that is their neighbouring countries.
I find your name ironic, but based on your past comments, you're merely an astroturfer for Israel, paid or not.
glorbax 1 year ago
@justgivemethetruth
Native Americans are free to leave. That is true: now. And it is a different situation. Even Noam Chomsky says so in another video. My point was denying a people rights, or right to self-determination - based on a "lack of original nation".
Noam Chomsky is a hugely respected academic, and the world's foremost in the field of linguistics, plus other subjects. You say he is bullying us because we know no better?! "Bashing" Israel is light punishment for their crimes.
the81kid 1 year ago
@the81kid Where did you get your knowledge in regards to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict? I only inquire because I am just reading up on it myself.
lifestraight 1 year ago
@lifestraight
I just read and listen to as much as possible. Be it Wikipedia, You Tube, Norman Finkelstein (he has a big mouth, but I can't argue with his logic or facts), Noam Chomsky, Derschowitz, mainstream media, non-mainstream media. Even propaganda is helpful. Because sometimes it is so obvious, you can see right through it. I would say beware of people who use insults or name-calling, in place of facts and argument.
the81kid 1 year ago
@the81kid Many Palestinians did and do have paperwork. Even that doesn't stop a Caterpillar tank-bulldozer or US missile.
EmmaYaBasta 1 year ago
@the81kid Because THe british gave it to us?
GTXMAN 1 year ago
@GTXMAN
Actually the British gave it to the both of you. Partitioned it. What do you mean?
the81kid 1 year ago
@the81kid The Jews agreed to the British plan,The Arabs didn't.They started a war and lost their territory.Now they are crying out loud and want it back.
GTXMAN 1 year ago
@GTXMAN exactly and they also want it back because the jews turned it into an OASIS of orchards and great things, whereas when the arabs it was simply sand and rocks....
buffymtl 1 year ago
@GTXMAN exactly and they also want it back because the jews turned it into an OASIS of orchards and great things, whereas when the arabshad it , it was simply sand and rocks....
buffymtl 1 year ago
@buffymtl
do you actually believe that stream of lies?!
the81kid 1 year ago
@GTXMAN
How dare the Arabs didn't agree to a colony state planted in their midst. Palestinians have a right to self-determination. No claiming "God gave us the land", just generations living there for hundreds of years. Homes. Farms. Olive groves. Universities.
the81kid 1 year ago
@the81kid There was no Palestinian state before 1948 either. :)
ProSensuCommuni 1 year ago
@the81kid there was no palestine either as a country
buffymtl 1 year ago
@the81kid
Read you history books please. The reason Israel "got a country" (and there was an Israel before 1948) is because they accepted the U.N. resolution that granted them the land. The reason the Palestinians don't have a country is due to the fact that they rejected the same resolution because it created the state of Israel and they didn't want Israel to have it's own state. Then for that same reason, they started a war RIGHT AFTER this and loss the land that their begging to get back.
anastamotic 1 year ago
@anastamotic
How many times can you contradict yourself? If Israel accepted the UN resolution, why are they settling and occupying the Palestinian's land - as given to them by a UN agreement?!
You have also just admitted that Israel acquired the land through war. Which is illegal internationally! Stop claiming UN resolutions for yourself and ignoring them for others' rights. One rule for you, and nothing for the Palestinians.
Read history books. Then apply to everyone equally.
the81kid 1 year ago
@the81kid "If Israel accepted the UN resolution, why are they settling and occupying the Palestinian's land"
Did you see UN (actually UK plan) partition plan? This could exist only on one condition - Both sides agree to it.
Arabs reject it and attempt take whole land by force this killed "UN" original plan and following 19yr occupation of so called Palestine BY ARAB COUNTRIES killed any legitimacy of so called Palestinian.
Any other country would just deport arabs and be done with it.
Greywind30 1 year ago
@Greywind30
"Did you see UN (actually UK plan) partition plan? This could exist only on one condition - Both sides agree to it."
I don't understand what exactly you are saying here, but it seems that you are using the Arabs attempts (the Palestinian attempts) to fight for their land back is now being used by you as an excuse... an excuse for the occupation. The occupation is illegal. You claim on UN resolution verifies Israel's existence, and another one invalid.
the81kid 1 year ago
@the81kid
BTW principal decision on Israel was made before UN by LoN and with agreement of Arab leader of the time.
UN role was minimal. They give blessing to two state that was presented by Brits and wash hand of this problem.
For all practical reasons they(UN and Brits) just set up jews for next Holocaust putting divided, ill survivors of Holocaust against states with standing professional armies, well equipped and trained.
UN is great idea and it may work one day but not today
Greywind30 1 year ago
@Greywind30
Make up your mind. Does the UN legitimize Israel, or is the UN irrelevant? You cannot have both. And while you argue and try to distract everyone... the Palestinians who lived there for generations have been forced from their homes, occupied and oppressed. That is what matters.
the81kid 1 year ago
@the81kid
Your "logic" is if UN made one right decision then all decisions are right? LOL
UN is relevant and important organization and move in right direction BUT.
UN reflect our world and as you may know majority countries member of UN represent brutal dictatorships, totalitarian regimes and corrupt medieval kingdoms. So while UN has a few positive thing and hopefully become better atm its just pathetic thing. Libya use to be a in Council of UN HUMAN RIGHTS! Iran defender of women rights.
Greywind30 1 year ago
@Greywind30
you are saying: you can pick and choose what UN resolutions you accept - whatever is beneficial for you. and blame the Palestinians for the rest. they didn't want to divide their homelands - why should they? i'm still waiting for a good reason for why Israel should have right to take their land...
the81kid 11 months ago
"you are saying: you can pick and choose what UN resolutions you accept"
I'm debating on facts and common sense not on good or bad resolution of UN but common sense and facts.
@the81kid "they didn't want to divide their homelands - why should they?"
You argue that jews can't claim this land on the ground they own it 2000 yr ago but fact is this region was owned by Ottomans for about 500yr and UK for 30yr. On what ground arabs claim statehood? They conquer this land 1000 yr ago?
Greywind30 11 months ago
@Greywind30
It was owned by the Ottomans (who were far from perfect), and the Palestinians lived there for hundreds of years. Now it is owned by the Israelis, and there are millions of refugees forced out of their homes. You are debating facts, but choosing UN resolutions based on your common sense. Not on international law. Claiming Palestinians turned down one resolution, claiming a UN resolution gives Israel legitimacy... and ignoring the resolutions Israel ignores.
the81kid 11 months ago
@the81kid "and the Palestinians lived there for hundreds of years"
And jews live there for thousands of years.
"Claiming Palestinians turned down one resolution,"
No dear champ. I'm claiming that Arabs have not obey ANY rule of civility and law.
"Now it is owned by the Israelis, and there are millions of refugees forced out of their homes"
You have no idea about subject so here quesion. How many ORIGINAL refugees have been made by Israeli Arab conflict. I bet you have no idea
Greywind30 11 months ago
@Greywind30
The Jews you mean are the ones who were expelled nearly 2,000 years ago. The Palestinians (and some Jews) here now have lived here for hundreds of years.
"No dear champ. I'm claiming that Arabs have not obey ANY rule of civility and law."
And so starts the name-calling. That statement shows your prejudice against all Arabs.
"How many ORIGINAL refugees have been made by Israeli Arab conflict. I bet you have no idea"
You cannot be serious! That is disgusting.
the81kid 11 months ago
@the81kid ""How many ORIGINAL refugees have been made by Israeli Arab conflict. I bet you have no idea"
"You cannot be serious! That is disgusting"
I'm serious. You have no idea about this conflict or very one-sided view.
"Dear champ" is not insult or at list I did not mean it as insult. If you take it as such I apologize.
Greywind30 11 months ago
It is better to be silent and appear stupid, than to speak and remove all doubt.
lapwiz 2 years ago
"One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail." -- Rabbi Yaacov Perrin, Feb. 27, 1994 [Source: N.Y. Times, Feb. 28, 1994, p. 1]
"We Jews, we are the destroyers and will remain the destroyers. Nothing you can do will meet our demands and needs. We will forever destroy because we want a world of our own." (You Gentiles, by Jewish Author Maurice Samuels, p. 155).
karlkarlkarl1234 2 years ago
I'm sorry to burst your bubble but Israel does give preferential treatment to Jews over any other pre-requisite for immigration. In fact, Israel searches outwards for immigrants of Jewish heritage to enter its borders , with ample benefits to "settle" in. Hence the debate over settlements, illegal settlements under international law, mind you.
Perhaps you are the one in need of learning a bit more about international law, Israeli immigration requirements, and pure common sense.
lapwiz 2 years ago
Re: (lapwiz)"I'm sorry to burst your bubble but Israel does give preferential treatment to Jews over any other pre-requisite for immigration."
AHHAHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA AHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAAHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA AHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAAHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA AHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHA
I know Zionists pull out some shit but that would have to take the cake.
karlkarlkarl1234 2 years ago
Horseshit? Go look it up. You want real democracies? Germany, Switzerland, and Sweden adhere to this as well. There is a real attachment; even if you don't believe in the religion, the fact is that we were there for thousands of years, wayyy before "Palestine" was invented by Romans. Unless you can find some Canaanites that want their land back, Jews have a much better claim to Israel than Canadians to theirs, you hypocritical leech.
Dumb examples? hahaha Again, find a new obsession.
thenotoriousSAMMYRAP 2 years ago
You don't understand anything. There's one Jewish state. Christians in Mexico don't need a Christian state to protect them, as there's plenty. The Land of Israel is the only homeland the Jewish people has ever had.
thenotoriousSAMMYRAP 2 years ago
of course there gonna impose laws preventing the immigration of warring states citizens in Israel. remind if im wrong but are Cuban's allowed to move to America?
JRubin86 2 years ago
and again there's nothing from stopping a muslim, or christain from getting Israeli citizenship, your talking about granting hostile entities citienzship in Israel, which is complelty different
JRubin86 2 years ago
Really? Was Israel just fine until the Balfour dec. and the West decided to hand you a country on a silver platter?
Don't deny you need the West....we created Israeli pigs! We can also fix that mistake by cutting funding...it's only a matter of time. Sympathy for the Holocaust is running out as generations get older.
Good thing too!
CANADAHATESISRAEL 2 years ago
Israel handed over on a silver platter? please remind me but the creation of ISrael brought about a war for Israel's survival where not only did west place a trade embargo on Israel, but armed and suppplied the arab armies, thats not a silver platter
JRubin86 2 years ago
regardless of what u think, thats the way this world works, and Israel was surviving just fine when the western world had imposed trade embargo's on it.
Judaism brings peace of mind, a better understanding of not only of one self, but of one another, it give moral structure and the list goes on. also you should note that Israel is a secular state, seperated from religion, but it consists of jews who fight for a country where jews can be jews without prosecution,
JRubin86 2 years ago
maybe u should learn some Canadian history well your at it, when Canada used to be a christain nation, only in 2nd half of the 20th century did religion and government seperate.
this notion of yours that religion can have no impact on government policies in a real democracy shows how you really dont understand anything about how this world or countries work, please do this world a favor any stop typing on politics when u cant grasp the simplest terms like what a democracy is
JRubin86 2 years ago
Please don't respond with more definitions of democracy...you clearly don't understand how the concept of "1 man, 1 vote" is ruined when you streamline immigration to get a predominately Jewish voting base.
What if mostly White Christians were selected to be Americans?? Think that America would tend to vote only one way then? If ethnic patterns happen naturally or historically then fine...but you can't manufacture them and call yourself a democracy. GET IT?
FUCK YOU ARE STUPID!!!
CANADAHATESISRAEL 2 years ago