great test. and some scary looking ammo. I carry 165gr hst's but would love these as well. amazing retention. especially for a non-bonded bullet (like the hst).
The expansion and penetration your test shows is superb for ANY self defense ammunition. It's unfortunate this ammo doesn't run well in my Springfield XD40 Subcompact. It fails to feed while other ammo feeds perfectly.
A good lesson for everyone out there. Make sure the ammo works in your gun before you decide to use it for self defense. If your gun jams, it's just like not having one at all.
@TeXJ2424 I'll have to try them again. I put over 100 rounds of various self defense ammo through my XD and The Ranger T's along with Golden Sabers didn't feed right. I've been using Hornady Critical Defense reliably, but it couldn't hurt to try again.
This is one of 2 carry loads my dept issues, the other being 155 HST by Federal Law Enforcement. When tested by Wincheser at a gel event the HST fared real well against the T series.
Would you say these are less accurate than cheaper practice loads such as Tul-Ammo or federal champion? I have shot, and carry, Winchester ranger 155 grain .40 S&W. The other day I compared shooting them to other ammo, and they were definitely less accurate than Tul-ammo was. Of course the Tul-ammo had a lot less recoil.
I know it was accidental, but have you ever considered doing multiple shots per block? I like all of your vids and think they're very informative, but having two different shots two look at. Thank you for all your time.
Fuck .45 230gr gold dot! This round just knocked the shit out of those! Im going to do a little more research then I am most likely going to start carrying these!
hey tntoutdoors your should try some Wilson combat custom ammo with Barnes bullets preferably the .45 ACP +P 185 gr. Barnes TAC-XP and for kicks I've always wanted to see what a .45 ACP SWC 200gr. would do in a test. great videos man. I'm definitely buying some of that .40s&w ranger ammo
The flight doesn't seem to have been effected much on your average speed test at the target at the beginning of the video. Have you gotten to do any accuracy testing outside of this vid?
I rarely do anything off camera with accuracy unless its my carry load. In a self-defense situation you will be be surprised at how accuracy suffers. Your target might be moving, and you may be as well.
holly crap look at the wound channel at 3:38 thats horrific! Its got cuts all the way through! the damage of that to ur organs would be devistating! This ammo is so insaine!
@Lethal0ption - Try online. I have purchased some from sgammo.com. I have seen T-series on different sites online.....this place seems well stocked in most calibers. (And no, I don't work for them, just like informing others of a good deal)
I wonder what the diffrence would be in terms of expansion or penetration with the 180gr version of these rounds. have u noticed much diffrence between similar rounds/weights?
I put a hog down for a bbq over the summer with one of these out of a short barrel 27. It folded up like a wet cloth life ceased to exist. Exit wound out the side of the skull was big.
@niceninemil- I dont carry a longer barrel. If they wont expand with what I am carrying, they are of no use to me. but with that said, I carry a 4" XD.45. I am about to buy something a little smaller because sometimes this is just too clunky to hide in certain dress. therefore, if i just wanted them to expand i'd fire them out of a .45 rifle. I wanted to load them in whatever i carried, because I THOUGHT they would be an excellent defense round. if they wont expand, then they are useless to me.
well, the hornady rounds, the pdx1's and the hydra-shoks i was also testing expanded just fine. the talons were the only hollowpoint full metal jackets of the day. i think i got 4 different lots of failure rounds on my hands. they will be used to plink with, instead of carry ammo, im not taking ANY chances.
i regularly buy this exact ammo from sgammo.com...they are a teriffic outfit, family owned business with low prices, great selection on all kinds of ammo and BLISTERING fast shipping....I live in Ky, order ammo on a sunday and by wednesday i have it at my house
@Talmadge- as i said in my previous post. I have tried SEVERAL water jug test, and several other tests, both with and without 4 layers of jeans and with and without media. the bullet passed straight thru 6 water jugs...now, i dont care what bullet has just been fired, but ANY hollow point, SHOULD EXPAND within 6 jugs, without going thru all 6 jugs.
I agree. I get enough of a certain bullet fanboy trying to act as a Winchester apologist on the 1911 forum. ;) If all of the other competitors can expand in a certain media -- be it water, simtest, or ballistic gelatin -- but one maker's round fails, I consider that maker's round a failure.This .40 Winchester did an excellent job. Other Ranger-T rounds in different calibers completely fail. The media isn't the problem, IMHO.
this kinda angers me... i bought some talons in .45 and did numerous water jug tests and everything, and could NOT get them to expand. 4 boxes and 4 different lot numbers. and they just failed to expand...
When you show us your two halves of the sim media are you turning them on their side or as they sat as part of the whole block? thanks again for the ammo test!
@elblancobasura You can find this stuff easily, along with HST, if you know where to look. I suggest the following web sites: sgammo, slickguns (links to many places), tds-us, kylesgunshop, and possibly the best prices anywhere at m.a.h. supplies in whitehall, illinois. YT won't let me put the dot followed by com on the end of these. You can figure them out.
I like heavy for caliber, as in 180 gr for .40. However, I am rethinking this relative to the 165 gr. Would like to see greater penetration, will accept less expansion, and retain the type of stretch cavity seen here.
Low end, just barely made the grade. Earlier this week I cancelled a test because the block was under spec. When that happens, I remelt and hopefully adjust the water level in order for it to get back up to spec. Or, vice versa when it goes too high.
TNoutdoors, were these the older rounds you bought a few years back? I ask because I have seen web chatter on 3 sites where people are saying that the Winchester machinery has dulled and no longer pre-cuts the hollowpoint enough to expand compared to older rounds??
Purchased these about 2 months prior to posting the video, but that doesn't say anything about how long there were on the dealer's shelves. Without giving away anything, I bought these in KY at a shop that I perceive has a low volume of ammo and accessory sales. If I recall correctly, the first test in 2009 was with donated ammo.
I went to the range with a couple different types of ammo. Ranger T being one of them. . . I was dead on with every brand except for the Ranger Ts. Then i see you hit low left in this video. Coincidence, or is there cause for concern in the accuracy department?
Like they say, "there is no free lunch" For a tame round to produce those expansion results and that depth, thats about as close to a free lunch your gonna get! GREAT vid! Cant wait to test these in gel later this month. Keep up the great vids!
They look sort of like Federal HST's once expanded. I've never quite understood why Winchester insists on continuing to only offer Rangers as "law enforcement only." Maybe someday they'll repackage them as the next generation of WWB JHP's or SXZ's, since those are essentially just rebranded Silvertips with brass or nickel cases and with or without Lubalox coatings. One can always dream, right? :-)
I have a 9mm. Which do you think is the better round between the 147 gr and the 124 gr in this brand? Or does it mater? This is for self defense carry.
You would be likely to have more expansion with the 124, better penetation with the 147. I don't know this for an absolute fact, but that should be the trend. 124's may feed better in your handgun, 147's may not recoil as much. I didn't make it easier, did I? :-)
@tnoutdoors9 1) Crossing paths, exactly. Not an ammo test more of a 'what happens to the media' test.
2) Lets be realistic. If a violent threat is 10 feet away most people are firing at least twice. My wife would like to cash in on my life insurance, but I dont share the same enthusiasm.
3) Doesnt have to.
Geez defensive. You make a point to show the wound channel for each round so why not with multiple rounds of say GoldDots, HST, PDX1... I personally have never seen it done.
Just trying to be consistent with how I conduct testing. Introducing variables such as that makes the test longer and my time shorter. I barely have time to post what I can. Test setup to a video upload is several hours.
There are YouTube videos where a block is shot multiple times with various calibers and it proved nothing. Sure, multiple shots compounds the damage, but in this format that doesn't equate to when the threat is stopped. Nor does one shot for that matter.
Granted, they are using a variety of firearms and calibers and it's evident they aren't trying to be scientific. A series of quick handgun shots into this block obviously won't produce the same effect. However, if two or three would channels are in close proximity, it increases the chance that a subsequent shot could pass through and with erratic aim could miss my backstop.
Wow... love the double shot! Glad to see you do that. Thomas, you'd better be careful because now you're becoming a YouTube star in the gun world, and well-known. You're giving away too much information, because now, when the zombies attack, they're going to be holding gelatin blocks in front of their heads confuse your aim. They probably figure they've got a fighting chance, then. *laugh*. In any case, REALLY looking forward to .45 HST or .45 Ranger-T in Simtest out of that Colt! Thanks!
Great test vid...I'd really like to see the gold dot 165 gr reshot in the new simtest media as well for comparrison...I was not surprised at the explosiveness of the wetpack test (1st. Jug) but the lack of expansion and higher penetration seemed odd...if it does similar in simtest I think it would help a lot of folks decide to go 180 GD or to another 165gr like this rangerT shown
Excellent test. Would like to see this in 180 gr for the difference in penetration. I would have thought that a shooting at only 10 ft. away it would have been deeper. Also it adds a lot to the test to see it performed twice, so your bad shot was actually very helpful.... Thanks for these test you do an excellent job with this and are doing us all a great service...
Better option than 180gr. GoldDots? I like that they come in a box of 50 compared to only 20 in other defensive loads for only about 10 dollars more. Now that's the best bang for your buck.
I sincerely hope you do not unsubscribe just because I test something you don't like, but I do plan to test at least one caliber of the "Zombie" ammo. A test will likely prove it's nothing but marketing hype. Advertised velocity of the .40 165 gr zombie load is only 1045 fps, compared to 1140 fps of this test. The 165 gr Critical Defense is rated at 1175 fps, and I generally find Critical Defense velocities to be much lower than advertised. I see where this is going.
@quimbyt Might be the exact ammo that's perfect for you, a 52 year old who has 2 video game videos on his channel, and lives in chicago where he cant own a handgun. Have fun.
@TNoutdoors9 That was a nice test. What do you think about using a 2 shot test method for your ammo tests? I know you shot twice in case the 1st shot was out of the block, but it was nice to see if the rounds performed consistently. Thanks.
it would be pretty nasty if one of those flew into ones torso. i also found out a lower budget but not as accurate ballistics resource for testing rounds on. PHONE BOOKS i had just found out that phone books can serve as armor because they are stab resistant and also capable of stopping a hand gun round such as the .22 or even a .45 acp half way through because phone books are more dense than ballistics jell
I love your videos, keep up the good work. I know it might be a bit much to ask but i think i would be great if you did 2 shots per test to get a better sample.
I came across some Win Ranger T-series in .45acp 230grain +p at the gun show here in SC this weekend paid $30 a box seemed reasonable and got 10 boxes of Blazer 230grain target load from him for $150 that seemed like a screaming deal
I plan to do that, it just isn't the highest priority right now. I really need to finish testing everything currently listed on the main channel page.
For a Non-Bonded bullet these seem to expand and hold together very well. With these and PDX1(bonded) series, Winchester is really on their game with ammo manufacturing these days.
You should shoot twice more often. It gives a look at whether the results are typical. Great video, i use rangers as my defensive round in all of my handguns.
I may be pulling the trigger soon on some .223 tests. I've been unwilling to use this block, as I need something clear to truly show full effectiveness of the bullet. Or maybe I'm wrong, so I just need to try it....nothing to lose, perhaps much to gain.
Ranger T-Series in 180 gr, #RA40T is something that I would give strong consideration. Federal HST in 180 would also be a top choice if it were more readily available. I just cannot get past the damage that is caused by the T-Series sharp expanded petals. If I were to wear these on a necklace, it would definitely imply to bystanders a "back the ____ off!" attitude.
Fantastic test! That is some mean ammo...it's a real shame it's not more readily avalable to the consumer. The PDX1 is good, and is available everywhere, but it would really be great if I could walk into Wally or any sporting goods store for these! Anyhow, from a fellow Tennessean, well done friend, keep it up!
Looks like some nasty stuff. A little more penetration would have been nice, but that probably would have meant less expansion, which I imagine is probably the case with the bonded PDX1 165 grain .40S&W, if they're making such a loading yet (I imagine so?). Have you ever considered attempting 2 shots on every test? Seems as though they would fit easily enough into the same size block and give you a little better data.
Keep in mind that the BB calibration shot only penetrated 3.3". This is about ~10% less than other tests with this media. If you adjust penetration of the 165gr Ranger T (11.38") by 10% then you get 12.5". Perfect. You may wish to annotate your video accordingly. The wound cavity of this round appears much more devastating than any of the other pistol rounds you've tested to date, including .357sig.
@ghostrider1krr I disagree, much of the 337 sig testing that was done revealed stretch cavities that were much larger, of course temporary/permanent stretch cavities are what they are as far as handgun calibers are concerned, usually not as important as overall penetration/expansion.
Definitely good rounds though, wish Winchester would load this in 10 mm
@bigboss686 The permanent damage/cuts done by this round were much more impressive than the .357 sig tests that he did. The professional ballistics experts like DOCGKR have shown that the permanent, not temporary, cavity is what's important in a handgun round.
@ghostrider1krr I certainly agree with Dr. Roberts that permanent cavity is much more important for handgun rounds as well, as previously mentioned.
However, I personally feel the 357 Sig offers benefits in penetration that the 40 S&W does not, again. Just my opinion.
You mention Dr. Robert, so I'm sure you've looked up the various photos showing the similarity between handgun rounds, so really bowls out of the old debate of penetration versus expansion, I'll take penetration, just my opinion
Regarding the BB calibration, it would be easy to say that it can be adjusted by ABC percentage to achieve XYZ penetration. Maybe, maybe not. I don't know if the momentum property of "physics" would agree. I also believe the block and air temp is becoming a factor. These blocks are several degrees cooler than earlier tests. I have also noticed that blocks stored for more than two weeks calibrate on the low end. I use plastic tool boxes for the mold; lid is closed.
@tnoutdoors9 Well it may not be a direct percentage adjustment but I'm just guessing that whether it's due to air temp, storage times, etc. that this block would likely yield slightly less penetration than one where the BB went 3.75", otherwise, what's the point of calibrating with a BB at 590fps?
It's a measure of consistency with FBI and IWBA testing. I'll never match their specs exactly, and don't desire to, but trying to get closer than most.
@tnoutdoors9 Please don't mistake my comment about the 3.3: bb penetration as a critique of your work. it's just an observation that, if anything, the relatively shallow bb penetration may also tend to indicate that the bullet penetration would be somewhat less than nominal. Excellent test with very convincing results. Keep up the outstanding work!
Thanks for doing this ammo, TN.....this is my CCW carry ammo in my Glock 23.......and i have had to use this ammo for self defense about two months ago (on a wild animal).....on my dads farm cleaning brush and a wild coyote popped out of the woods.....he growled, snarled....i drew when he turned his head to the left.....one shot to the neck.....i cant even describe the mess it made.....ONE shot stop.....true story!!!!
I would expect the 180 to penetrate more, but there might be a 165 bonded bullet out there that doesn't expand as much and penetrates further....who knows. I would personally be interested in seeing something like that.
i would love to pick these up but I can't find them any where in tne Tri-Cities, Tn. Does anyone know where i can buy these?
zssv1 1 week ago
Love your videos, tnoutdoors; but do you have any idea when you might be testing the .45 acp T-series with the sim-test media?
moneyman289 2 weeks ago
what do you use for your self defense load, in a .40?
TeXJ2424 2 weeks ago in playlist .40 S&W Ammo Tests
great test. and some scary looking ammo. I carry 165gr hst's but would love these as well. amazing retention. especially for a non-bonded bullet (like the hst).
yz9890 1 month ago
The expansion and penetration your test shows is superb for ANY self defense ammunition. It's unfortunate this ammo doesn't run well in my Springfield XD40 Subcompact. It fails to feed while other ammo feeds perfectly.
A good lesson for everyone out there. Make sure the ammo works in your gun before you decide to use it for self defense. If your gun jams, it's just like not having one at all.
bkrumme 1 month ago
@bkrumme I have this in my XD SC 40, ran fine.
TeXJ2424 2 weeks ago in playlist .40 S&W Ammo Tests
@TeXJ2424 I'll have to try them again. I put over 100 rounds of various self defense ammo through my XD and The Ranger T's along with Golden Sabers didn't feed right. I've been using Hornady Critical Defense reliably, but it couldn't hurt to try again.
bkrumme 2 weeks ago
@bkrumme I've got at least 1000+ rounds through mine with no problems, I bought it new last may.
TeXJ2424 2 weeks ago
This is one of 2 carry loads my dept issues, the other being 155 HST by Federal Law Enforcement. When tested by Wincheser at a gel event the HST fared real well against the T series.
kmac319 1 month ago
Would you say these are less accurate than cheaper practice loads such as Tul-Ammo or federal champion? I have shot, and carry, Winchester ranger 155 grain .40 S&W. The other day I compared shooting them to other ammo, and they were definitely less accurate than Tul-ammo was. Of course the Tul-ammo had a lot less recoil.
basshoundusa 1 month ago
Yep. I'm going to purchase a box of this for my .45. Impressive.
mobowhuntr 1 month ago
Having 2 shots to look at reinforces your findings.* got distracted....
StFrankieP 1 month ago
I know it was accidental, but have you ever considered doing multiple shots per block? I like all of your vids and think they're very informative, but having two different shots two look at. Thank you for all your time.
StFrankieP 1 month ago
Is there any chance to test this in 180gr .40cal
dsmatpng 1 month ago
Great video! I use the 135 currently in my M&P but the 165 looks to do the job as well.
zybanmongo 1 month ago
I'll stick to gold dots in my 9 but I think this is definitely goin in my G23!
flexx1987 2 months ago
Fuck .45 230gr gold dot! This round just knocked the shit out of those! Im going to do a little more research then I am most likely going to start carrying these!
Radion561 2 months ago
hey tntoutdoors your should try some Wilson combat custom ammo with Barnes bullets preferably the .45 ACP +P 185 gr. Barnes TAC-XP and for kicks I've always wanted to see what a .45 ACP SWC 200gr. would do in a test. great videos man. I'm definitely buying some of that .40s&w ranger ammo
rockyhockey16 3 months ago
please do this bullet in 180gr non bonded too keep up the good work
tacdriver22mk2 3 months ago in playlist More videos from tnoutdoors9
i can hear the excitement in TNO9's voice when talks about the expansion and weight
paikmendez 3 months ago
The flight doesn't seem to have been effected much on your average speed test at the target at the beginning of the video. Have you gotten to do any accuracy testing outside of this vid?
shggyswmmer 3 months ago
@shggyswmmer
I rarely do anything off camera with accuracy unless its my carry load. In a self-defense situation you will be be surprised at how accuracy suffers. Your target might be moving, and you may be as well.
tnoutdoors9 2 months ago
That is a badass round.
Brandon401401 3 months ago
one word only: WOW
robin6512 3 months ago
holly crap look at the wound channel at 3:38 thats horrific! Its got cuts all the way through! the damage of that to ur organs would be devistating! This ammo is so insaine!
bobwatters 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I don't think any perp would get up with an expansion from that bullet. Gave me chills to see the cavity it left on the gel.
D33Lux 3 months ago
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D33Lux 3 months ago
You can always tell a southern man, by the phrases we use!
isamtator 3 months ago
I miss my Glock 23, better than my 19.
isamtator 3 months ago
Looked all over Reno, NV. today Cabelas, Scheelz, Sportsmans warhouse, Didnt find any so disappointed.
Lethal0ption 3 months ago
@Lethal0ption - Try online. I have purchased some from sgammo.com. I have seen T-series on different sites online.....this place seems well stocked in most calibers. (And no, I don't work for them, just like informing others of a good deal)
TheEzrydr 2 months ago
@TheEzrydr dude that site is sick
Lethal0ption 2 months ago
I wonder what the diffrence would be in terms of expansion or penetration with the 180gr version of these rounds. have u noticed much diffrence between similar rounds/weights?
762x54rgun 3 months ago
I put a hog down for a bbq over the summer with one of these out of a short barrel 27. It folded up like a wet cloth life ceased to exist. Exit wound out the side of the skull was big.
pjicleanair420 3 months ago
Except for shooting low, it appears to be a very good round.
frankgon4 3 months ago
@niceninemil- I dont carry a longer barrel. If they wont expand with what I am carrying, they are of no use to me. but with that said, I carry a 4" XD.45. I am about to buy something a little smaller because sometimes this is just too clunky to hide in certain dress. therefore, if i just wanted them to expand i'd fire them out of a .45 rifle. I wanted to load them in whatever i carried, because I THOUGHT they would be an excellent defense round. if they wont expand, then they are useless to me.
tnshootingtimes 3 months ago
well, the hornady rounds, the pdx1's and the hydra-shoks i was also testing expanded just fine. the talons were the only hollowpoint full metal jackets of the day. i think i got 4 different lots of failure rounds on my hands. they will be used to plink with, instead of carry ammo, im not taking ANY chances.
tnshootingtimes 3 months ago
TNOutdoors,
i regularly buy this exact ammo from sgammo.com...they are a teriffic outfit, family owned business with low prices, great selection on all kinds of ammo and BLISTERING fast shipping....I live in Ky, order ammo on a sunday and by wednesday i have it at my house
bruce21b 3 months ago
Nice
missshae2 3 months ago
exactly my point...and my.45s dont expand like these did in the videos. so therefore something is wrong with my talons
tnshootingtimes 3 months ago
@Talmadge- as i said in my previous post. I have tried SEVERAL water jug test, and several other tests, both with and without 4 layers of jeans and with and without media. the bullet passed straight thru 6 water jugs...now, i dont care what bullet has just been fired, but ANY hollow point, SHOULD EXPAND within 6 jugs, without going thru all 6 jugs.
tnshootingtimes 3 months ago
@tnshootingtimes
If a JHP cannot expand in water, something is definitely wrong.
tnoutdoors9 3 months ago
I agree. I get enough of a certain bullet fanboy trying to act as a Winchester apologist on the 1911 forum. ;) If all of the other competitors can expand in a certain media -- be it water, simtest, or ballistic gelatin -- but one maker's round fails, I consider that maker's round a failure.This .40 Winchester did an excellent job. Other Ranger-T rounds in different calibers completely fail. The media isn't the problem, IMHO.
Yeongugwan808 3 months ago
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TalmadgeTheHypnotist 3 months ago
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TalmadgeTheHypnotist 3 months ago
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TalmadgeTheHypnotist 3 months ago
this kinda angers me... i bought some talons in .45 and did numerous water jug tests and everything, and could NOT get them to expand. 4 boxes and 4 different lot numbers. and they just failed to expand...
p.s. nice aiming...lol j/k
tnshootingtimes 3 months ago
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TalmadgeTheHypnotist 3 months ago
What is the product number? There are 2 165 grain ranger, 1 is bonded and the other isnt.
southernstructure 3 months ago
@southernstructure
RA40TA, non-bonded from what I can determine.
tnoutdoors9 3 months ago
When you show us your two halves of the sim media are you turning them on their side or as they sat as part of the whole block? thanks again for the ammo test!
Nicho2177 3 months ago
@Nicho2177
Slices are turned on their sides relative to the shot itself.
tnoutdoors9 3 months ago
"this ammo is readily available..." he says. Not anymore. lol.
elblancobasura 3 months ago
@elblancobasura You can find this stuff easily, along with HST, if you know where to look. I suggest the following web sites: sgammo, slickguns (links to many places), tds-us, kylesgunshop, and possibly the best prices anywhere at m.a.h. supplies in whitehall, illinois. YT won't let me put the dot followed by com on the end of these. You can figure them out.
Yeongugwan808 3 months ago
that's a scariest bullet ever!
GodBlessYou2008 3 months ago
@GodBlessYou2008
I think it deserves its own Halloween mask.
tnoutdoors9 3 months ago 2
I'd heard the 165's were best. This kind of confirms it.
thatguy66ish 3 months ago
@thatguy66ish
I like heavy for caliber, as in 180 gr for .40. However, I am rethinking this relative to the 165 gr. Would like to see greater penetration, will accept less expansion, and retain the type of stretch cavity seen here.
tnoutdoors9 3 months ago
@tnoutdoors9 After having a 9mm jhp go through a big attacking dog a couple of years ago, I'll go with less penetration. Just a little bit less.
thatguy66ish 3 months ago
How did the bb calibrate this time? Was it on the higher the low end?
Yeongugwan808 3 months ago
@Yeongugwan808
Low end, just barely made the grade. Earlier this week I cancelled a test because the block was under spec. When that happens, I remelt and hopefully adjust the water level in order for it to get back up to spec. Or, vice versa when it goes too high.
tnoutdoors9 3 months ago
@tnoutdoors9 Ah... so that means it may have broken 12" if the block had been on the high end, right? Good deal, if so.
Yeongugwan808 3 months ago
Thanks for your efforts.
scooter17568 3 months ago
Whew, even nastier than the old Gold Dots that I carry. Over 9/10's of an inch expansion, that's crazy for a 40!
Thanks for doing these vids!
1AbominAble1 3 months ago
Looks like a good defensive round....40cal 165gr! Thanks for your time & effort!
bulltastik 3 months ago
TNoutdoors, were these the older rounds you bought a few years back? I ask because I have seen web chatter on 3 sites where people are saying that the Winchester machinery has dulled and no longer pre-cuts the hollowpoint enough to expand compared to older rounds??
Yeongugwan808 3 months ago
@Yeongugwan808
Purchased these about 2 months prior to posting the video, but that doesn't say anything about how long there were on the dealer's shelves. Without giving away anything, I bought these in KY at a shop that I perceive has a low volume of ammo and accessory sales. If I recall correctly, the first test in 2009 was with donated ammo.
tnoutdoors9 3 months ago
Those things give me the chills, wouldn't want to be on the recieving end of those bad boys. Very nice video as always.
greedkiller 3 months ago
Oh, man. If I shot someone with that I'd need a raincoat. Lol
easydoz1 3 months ago
seems point of aim was a bit low with the faster lighter bullet
temple400 3 months ago
Another great video, keep doing what your doing. Some people obviously don't understand the purpose of these tests.
joe2020jack 3 months ago
I went to the range with a couple different types of ammo. Ranger T being one of them. . . I was dead on with every brand except for the Ranger Ts. Then i see you hit low left in this video. Coincidence, or is there cause for concern in the accuracy department?
bigosbro21 3 months ago
Like they say, "there is no free lunch" For a tame round to produce those expansion results and that depth, thats about as close to a free lunch your gonna get! GREAT vid! Cant wait to test these in gel later this month. Keep up the great vids!
ScubaOz 3 months ago
holy crap...this is the new age black tallon....ranger t's are amazing and a must have for home defense....this ammo is a surgens nightmare...lol...
Titan9mm 3 months ago
Dayyyumm, Winchester! You scary! 8-O
They look sort of like Federal HST's once expanded. I've never quite understood why Winchester insists on continuing to only offer Rangers as "law enforcement only." Maybe someday they'll repackage them as the next generation of WWB JHP's or SXZ's, since those are essentially just rebranded Silvertips with brass or nickel cases and with or without Lubalox coatings. One can always dream, right? :-)
darkwriter77 3 months ago
Very nice video, Thanks for sharing.
RETIREINARIZONA 3 months ago
Great video
Those ranger T's sure do look nasty.
millster101 3 months ago
I have a 9mm. Which do you think is the better round between the 147 gr and the 124 gr in this brand? Or does it mater? This is for self defense carry.
montoymufasa 3 months ago
@montoymufasa
You would be likely to have more expansion with the 124, better penetation with the 147. I don't know this for an absolute fact, but that should be the trend. 124's may feed better in your handgun, 147's may not recoil as much. I didn't make it easier, did I? :-)
tnoutdoors9 3 months ago 5
@tnoutdoors9 Thanks, LOL. Keep up the good work!
montoymufasa 3 months ago
Awesome videos. Short, to the point, and loaded with good information. Thank you
customgsxr600 3 months ago
I'm kinda glad you did two shots, gave a good look at how consistent this round is. Great job!
Gunsforfreedom 3 months ago
I love your ammo reviews, you have helped me pick some great defensive loads...
talisman9000 3 months ago
Great job. Amazing expansion!
72cmcinc 3 months ago
What about a vidoe where you put 3 shots, in rapid succession, in the media. After all, you dont plan on stoping a threat with one shot do you?
1faSStchevy 3 months ago
@1faSStchevy
I don't see any reason whatsoever for doing that. From what I know, that also isn't a practice with professional testing.
1. The risk of the paths crossing each other, invalidating the results.
2. I hope to stop a threat with one shot, regardless of ballistic testing.
3. I don't think the 50 lb block is going anywhere.
tnoutdoors9 3 months ago 6
@tnoutdoors9 1) Crossing paths, exactly. Not an ammo test more of a 'what happens to the media' test.
2) Lets be realistic. If a violent threat is 10 feet away most people are firing at least twice. My wife would like to cash in on my life insurance, but I dont share the same enthusiasm.
3) Doesnt have to.
Geez defensive. You make a point to show the wound channel for each round so why not with multiple rounds of say GoldDots, HST, PDX1... I personally have never seen it done.
1faSStchevy 3 months ago
@1faSStchevy
Just trying to be consistent with how I conduct testing. Introducing variables such as that makes the test longer and my time shorter. I barely have time to post what I can. Test setup to a video upload is several hours.
There are YouTube videos where a block is shot multiple times with various calibers and it proved nothing. Sure, multiple shots compounds the damage, but in this format that doesn't equate to when the threat is stopped. Nor does one shot for that matter.
tnoutdoors9 3 months ago 2
@1faSStchevy
Here you go: watch?v=qBDzKfKX_yw
Granted, they are using a variety of firearms and calibers and it's evident they aren't trying to be scientific. A series of quick handgun shots into this block obviously won't produce the same effect. However, if two or three would channels are in close proximity, it increases the chance that a subsequent shot could pass through and with erratic aim could miss my backstop.
tnoutdoors9 3 months ago 2
@tnoutdoors9 I would like the idea of two shots per ammo test...
JDW857 3 months ago
Comment removed
1faSStchevy 3 months ago
nice
BIGGxDAWG210 3 months ago
Sweet! This is what I carry. Good to know it will do the job if SHTF.
token5gtd 3 months ago
Those are nasty sir
miah022 3 months ago
That first shot was a blessing is disguise, because this is your best ammo test vid to date. Keep up the great work!!
onelxstwish 3 months ago
Ouch.
Migs4000 3 months ago
Best ammo test vids on youtube! I would like to contribute to the cause. Either ammo or cash. You need to get into some Corbon.
gjr4315 3 months ago
My question is, are the Win PDX1and the Win Ranger T-series the same thing?
dphitch 3 months ago
Wow... love the double shot! Glad to see you do that. Thomas, you'd better be careful because now you're becoming a YouTube star in the gun world, and well-known. You're giving away too much information, because now, when the zombies attack, they're going to be holding gelatin blocks in front of their heads confuse your aim. They probably figure they've got a fighting chance, then. *laugh*. In any case, REALLY looking forward to .45 HST or .45 Ranger-T in Simtest out of that Colt! Thanks!
Yeongugwan808 3 months ago
VERY Good results! Thanks for the 'Happy Hour' version w/2 bullets!
TheGunfighter45acp 3 months ago
It's nice to see 165gr redeemed in SIM-TEST compared to the old wetpack test, thanks for the video!
voyager4520 3 months ago
Great test vid...I'd really like to see the gold dot 165 gr reshot in the new simtest media as well for comparrison...I was not surprised at the explosiveness of the wetpack test (1st. Jug) but the lack of expansion and higher penetration seemed odd...if it does similar in simtest I think it would help a lot of folks decide to go 180 GD or to another 165gr like this rangerT shown
jonboynumba1 3 months ago
What do you think about testing what effect the denim actually has.
Just a comparrison with one bullet in the block without denim and one with denim.
Hellsslave666 3 months ago
Excellent test. Would like to see this in 180 gr for the difference in penetration. I would have thought that a shooting at only 10 ft. away it would have been deeper. Also it adds a lot to the test to see it performed twice, so your bad shot was actually very helpful.... Thanks for these test you do an excellent job with this and are doing us all a great service...
rbelena 3 months ago
Why don't you use a laser to see where your bullet is going to go when you are shooting at the block? I use the same ammo for self defense in my G23.
Eslamizar 3 months ago
Better option than 180gr. GoldDots? I like that they come in a box of 50 compared to only 20 in other defensive loads for only about 10 dollars more. Now that's the best bang for your buck.
Lethal0ption 3 months ago
You should try the Hornady Zombie Max ammo.
quimbyt 3 months ago
@quimbyt if he does im gonna unsubscribe cuz that's some clown ass childish shit right there that hornady did.
SupremeAmerican 3 months ago
@SupremeAmerican
I sincerely hope you do not unsubscribe just because I test something you don't like, but I do plan to test at least one caliber of the "Zombie" ammo. A test will likely prove it's nothing but marketing hype. Advertised velocity of the .40 165 gr zombie load is only 1045 fps, compared to 1140 fps of this test. The 165 gr Critical Defense is rated at 1175 fps, and I generally find Critical Defense velocities to be much lower than advertised. I see where this is going.
tnoutdoors9 3 months ago
@SupremeAmerican I don`t think so I plan on buying some so you will have unsubscribe.
quimbyt 3 months ago
@quimbyt Might be the exact ammo that's perfect for you, a 52 year old who has 2 video game videos on his channel, and lives in chicago where he cant own a handgun. Have fun.
SupremeAmerican 3 months ago
@TNoutdoors9 That was a nice test. What do you think about using a 2 shot test method for your ammo tests? I know you shot twice in case the 1st shot was out of the block, but it was nice to see if the rounds performed consistently. Thanks.
Fisherdave10 3 months ago
This is a very serious nasty round.
robin6512 3 months ago
another ammo test another ammo test another ammo test another ammo test another ammo test.....omg omg omg omg......this is better than porn.
gshdrums 3 months ago
"Accurate....as long as you're not shooting at a block ten feet away." Hahahaha that's hilarious.
byaaahrabble 3 months ago
9mm NATO please
vassal11 3 months ago
@vassal11 He did a video with 9mm NATO
jwash3rd 3 months ago 2
I stay in tn and I can't find any of this in 165gr only in 135gr at guns and ammo. Great vid..
nae38106 3 months ago
will you do these tests with popular 5.56 ammo?
0Weaver0 3 months ago
Great video and good information
buckshots500 3 months ago
These are SCARY. Come at me, baddies.
RitsOfFallsCity 3 months ago
Wow, I gotta get a couple boxes of these... I passed on them before but now I'm going to reconsider...
smorris584 3 months ago
Very informative,thank you.
vegasbob007 3 months ago
This is why, after testing all of the major brands, my stash of .40 cal defensive ammo consists entirely of 165gr Ranger T and 180gr HST.
ghostrider1krr 3 months ago
This is FANTASTIC ammo. Thanks for doing this test.
surfboardhacker 3 months ago
it would be pretty nasty if one of those flew into ones torso. i also found out a lower budget but not as accurate ballistics resource for testing rounds on. PHONE BOOKS i had just found out that phone books can serve as armor because they are stab resistant and also capable of stopping a hand gun round such as the .22 or even a .45 acp half way through because phone books are more dense than ballistics jell
laladoodieincarnate 3 months ago
I guess Law Enforcement doesn't want any survivors if they have to shoot someone...
jimrbsn 3 months ago
I love your videos, keep up the good work. I know it might be a bit much to ask but i think i would be great if you did 2 shots per test to get a better sample.
franklima260 3 months ago
DAMN! I have some old Winchester Black Talon's for my .44 Mag. They have the same nasty, pointy talons.
HawkLMT 3 months ago
i cant wait to move back to TN gonna set up my own range.
MrMosinNagant1937 3 months ago
Those rounds look pretty sinister once they've expanded.
mattKAOS25 3 months ago
Thanks for the vid!
3DCree 3 months ago
how soft is that belistics gell?
reatard132 3 months ago
looks like a nasty round..good for self defense...probably the next best thing to the heralded black talons of yesteryear.
paikmendez 3 months ago
I came across some Win Ranger T-series in .45acp 230grain +p at the gun show here in SC this weekend paid $30 a box seemed reasonable and got 10 boxes of Blazer 230grain target load from him for $150 that seemed like a screaming deal
JesseLJohnson 3 months ago
Great result, quality ammo. I will still take it in 180 if I got the choice.
pjicleanair420 3 months ago
Comment removed
Ftw930spX 3 months ago 2
@Ftw930spX
I plan to do that, it just isn't the highest priority right now. I really need to finish testing everything currently listed on the main channel page.
tnoutdoors9 3 months ago 2
Comment removed
Ftw930spX 3 months ago
I made some wetpack and did some of my own ammo testing. Doing it really made me see the hard work that goes into these tests. Thanks for doing them!
251251 3 months ago
For a Non-Bonded bullet these seem to expand and hold together very well. With these and PDX1(bonded) series, Winchester is really on their game with ammo manufacturing these days.
patriotsnfl1 3 months ago
Would it be impossible/impractical to suspend something like a ham bone about 12" deep in a block to test how the rounds interact?
25xxfrostxx 3 months ago
@ZombieMasterEdd25
I take it to the local Shoney's, where it goes on the salad bar. :-)
It is re-usable, I posted two videos on the process early 2011. This has been a great investment.
tnoutdoors9 3 months ago 2
You should shoot twice more often. It gives a look at whether the results are typical. Great video, i use rangers as my defensive round in all of my handguns.
25xxfrostxx 3 months ago
hey, i have been whacthing these vids for a while and was wondering if you coul do a test on rilfes and shot guns,,,, love the videos
wheelhorseful 3 months ago
@wheelhorseful
I may be pulling the trigger soon on some .223 tests. I've been unwilling to use this block, as I need something clear to truly show full effectiveness of the bullet. Or maybe I'm wrong, so I just need to try it....nothing to lose, perhaps much to gain.
tnoutdoors9 3 months ago
I buy this in Texas For My 9mm...
Blk05titan26 3 months ago
So will you change from Speer?
MrStrawberrification 3 months ago
@MrStrawberrification
Ranger T-Series in 180 gr, #RA40T is something that I would give strong consideration. Federal HST in 180 would also be a top choice if it were more readily available. I just cannot get past the damage that is caused by the T-Series sharp expanded petals. If I were to wear these on a necklace, it would definitely imply to bystanders a "back the ____ off!" attitude.
tnoutdoors9 3 months ago
Fantastic test! That is some mean ammo...it's a real shame it's not more readily avalable to the consumer. The PDX1 is good, and is available everywhere, but it would really be great if I could walk into Wally or any sporting goods store for these! Anyhow, from a fellow Tennessean, well done friend, keep it up!
TigerMike901 3 months ago
Impressive expansion and penetration.
tiggerr42431 3 months ago
★★★★★
TheMultiGunMan 3 months ago
Why would you need or even want more penetration than 12 inches? Wouldn't you be over penetrating beyond that?
tartredarrow 3 months ago
@Composer1777 I've chronographed these out of my G35 at about 1200fps. Hope that helps.
ghostrider1krr 3 months ago
Would be VERY interesting to see how some of these .40 cal rounds perform in a revolver, like the S&W Model 610
12799MaDeuce 3 months ago
could u do a test with some shotgun shot shells?? or maybe a 20ga slug it would be interesting to see the results
randomness8895 3 months ago
Looks like some nasty stuff. A little more penetration would have been nice, but that probably would have meant less expansion, which I imagine is probably the case with the bonded PDX1 165 grain .40S&W, if they're making such a loading yet (I imagine so?). Have you ever considered attempting 2 shots on every test? Seems as though they would fit easily enough into the same size block and give you a little better data.
wcropp1 3 months ago
Keep in mind that the BB calibration shot only penetrated 3.3". This is about ~10% less than other tests with this media. If you adjust penetration of the 165gr Ranger T (11.38") by 10% then you get 12.5". Perfect. You may wish to annotate your video accordingly. The wound cavity of this round appears much more devastating than any of the other pistol rounds you've tested to date, including .357sig.
ghostrider1krr 3 months ago
@ghostrider1krr I disagree, much of the 337 sig testing that was done revealed stretch cavities that were much larger, of course temporary/permanent stretch cavities are what they are as far as handgun calibers are concerned, usually not as important as overall penetration/expansion.
Definitely good rounds though, wish Winchester would load this in 10 mm
bigboss686 3 months ago
@bigboss686 The permanent damage/cuts done by this round were much more impressive than the .357 sig tests that he did. The professional ballistics experts like DOCGKR have shown that the permanent, not temporary, cavity is what's important in a handgun round.
ghostrider1krr 3 months ago
@ghostrider1krr I certainly agree with Dr. Roberts that permanent cavity is much more important for handgun rounds as well, as previously mentioned.
However, I personally feel the 357 Sig offers benefits in penetration that the 40 S&W does not, again. Just my opinion.
You mention Dr. Robert, so I'm sure you've looked up the various photos showing the similarity between handgun rounds, so really bowls out of the old debate of penetration versus expansion, I'll take penetration, just my opinion
bigboss686 3 months ago
@ghostrider1krr
Regarding the BB calibration, it would be easy to say that it can be adjusted by ABC percentage to achieve XYZ penetration. Maybe, maybe not. I don't know if the momentum property of "physics" would agree. I also believe the block and air temp is becoming a factor. These blocks are several degrees cooler than earlier tests. I have also noticed that blocks stored for more than two weeks calibrate on the low end. I use plastic tool boxes for the mold; lid is closed.
tnoutdoors9 3 months ago
@tnoutdoors9 Well it may not be a direct percentage adjustment but I'm just guessing that whether it's due to air temp, storage times, etc. that this block would likely yield slightly less penetration than one where the BB went 3.75", otherwise, what's the point of calibrating with a BB at 590fps?
ghostrider1krr 3 months ago
@ghostrider1krr
It's a measure of consistency with FBI and IWBA testing. I'll never match their specs exactly, and don't desire to, but trying to get closer than most.
tnoutdoors9 3 months ago
@tnoutdoors9 Please don't mistake my comment about the 3.3: bb penetration as a critique of your work. it's just an observation that, if anything, the relatively shallow bb penetration may also tend to indicate that the bullet penetration would be somewhat less than nominal. Excellent test with very convincing results. Keep up the outstanding work!
ghostrider1krr 3 months ago
Are you going to do any tests on .22 LR, with so many choices out there, it would be nice to see some of the differences in penetration
Chris090883 3 months ago
Excellent test, sir! That's some wicked ammo!
ristin59 3 months ago
Thanks for doing this ammo, TN.....this is my CCW carry ammo in my Glock 23.......and i have had to use this ammo for self defense about two months ago (on a wild animal).....on my dads farm cleaning brush and a wild coyote popped out of the woods.....he growled, snarled....i drew when he turned his head to the left.....one shot to the neck.....i cant even describe the mess it made.....ONE shot stop.....true story!!!!
bruce21b 3 months ago
Great stuff!
Survivalonabudget 3 months ago
What load would be best for .40 S&W? The 165 seems to perform well but would a 180 grain bullet penetrate better?
Ninety9Soulz 3 months ago
@Ninety9Soulz
I would expect the 180 to penetrate more, but there might be a 165 bonded bullet out there that doesn't expand as much and penetrates further....who knows. I would personally be interested in seeing something like that.
tnoutdoors9 3 months ago