The Second Time Is Always Far Scarier

[scottneumann82]

awesome!! very motivational!!!

[korisx]

The funny thing about all this, is sooner or later (and for one reason or another) homosexualtiy will not be an issue, and each religious sect, will have themselves to tend with. Given that in Christianity, there can only be one true church, with scything results on America's constitution, what's to keep a prodminantly Christian nation from furthering their exclusion agenda?

[depfox]

I agree with you 100%

[stoner829]

MaleOrderBride-my latest F'buddy and I have been together monogamously for over 18 years. He was nearly kicked out of my hospital room last year when I became ill. We have to pay an extra $400. a month for his health insurance..when normally (if we were married) he could be on my plan...

Sorry you have such a narrow vision about gay relationships...

[kd1s]

Actually WRT the events of 9/11/2001 it's becoming increasingly more obvious that our government knew it was going to happen and allowed it to happen. That's just to treasonous to even continue the thought.

[LathanJV36]

I loved the video period. It had great meaning and some really great points.

[revemupman]

But the government is SUPPOSE to take notice when the country is attacked literally. This is a civil rights battle, a social political battle. Although in comparison they seem the same, theres really a difference. U.S. government took 500 years to finally stand up and abolish slavery. The question here isn't about when will America take notice. Its really about why have they took this long to begin with in my opinion.

[revemupman]

Like the concept of the vid but it should of been about civil rights struggles not actual attacks made to the U.S. I know gay people been terrorized but Hiroshima? come on, it seems like the LGBT's are going to strap up and turn rambo on us.

[dakshajackson]

gays shouldnt get or be married ok!

[MaleOrderBride]

Wow! So disrespectful and self-indulgent!

You are comparing the deaths of hundreds of Americans in September 11 to YOU not being able to get a piece of paper that "proves" you are better than couples without one?

Niiiiccee.....

[summersonset]

Maleorderbride, you might wonder how many gays/lesbians die, directly or indirectly, because of discrimination, bullying, violence or suicide etc. Im betting its more than 3000.

[summersonset]

Hang on, I dont mean what I said about death of gays is worse in any way or less worse than the WTC deaths. Just that that is just another comparison to make and an interesting one, because the US state doesnt really handle its issues with homosexuality and allows bad violations of rights, they fail protecting their citizens.

[depfox]

You miss the point of the video

[MaleOrderBride]

No, I got your point. You are throwing a tantrum because you don't have the "right" to walk down the aisle with your latest f*ckbuddy.

Please stop talking for all us "gays". I am a gay guy. I don't want to get married. I don't want "gay marriage" Marriage is a failed patriarchial, oppressive institution that ends in divorce more than 50% of the time.

I wonder what Mark Bingham would think of you?!

[SeanChapin1]

@MaleOrderBride, if you don't want to get married, I can understand that, but marriage is a fundamental civil right, and whether or not you want to get married, you should have that right to get married as an equal citizen of America. I would think that every LGBT person would want to have full equal rights like everyone else.

As a full disclosure, I am the one that produced this video. I have also met Mark Bingham, and his life has inspired me greatly to be the person I am today.

[korisx]

Great, I get your point, you don't want to get married, for now, you dislike marriage for whatever reason, and the reasons you have given of course are 120% valid, but let me ask you this:

Knowing the difference between you not wanting a marriage and a straight person not wanting to be married, how can you ignore the greater problem this represents?

Our decisions are being made via oppression.

Sorry but your argument given the circumstances, sounds like Stockholm syndrome.

[wolfcub82]

I understand the point behind the video, but atomic bombs?... really? I know you want to get people motivated, but... (honestly, watching this reminds me of the scary commercial they make in the old movie Scrooged). Yes, there are real threats that need to be recognized and dealt actively with, but fear can be a very dangerous way to motivate people, whatever their cause.

[depfox]

I believe seans point...and our point...is not that these issues are the same on the surface. Its that the second time each of them happened...the government and the people sat up and took notice.

Sadly thats not happening today. there are tons of people..gay and straight who are o.k. with what happened in Maine.

[depfox]

AND...when NOM and the rest of their crew are done with merely "blocking" our rights they will move to start repealing the ones we have.

when they are done with us...who will be next?

[summersonset]

depfox, the atheists, most probably. Ive read somewhere there are people that consider being an atheist (in the US) worse as being gay. I agree with you there will be another group of people targeted by the Christian Taliban, in the future. Or rmaybe the muslims, thats one highrisk group, too.

[valital]

Something happening twice means you see it's not an isolated incident but possibly the beginning of a series of events. But for something to happen as a consequence of this, there must be agreement that the events are negative in nature. You and I may agree on this, but a lot of people don't and the US government hasn't taken a position against these rights being taken away so I don't see why they'd now take action simply because this is possibly the beginning of a series of similar initiatives.

[valital]

... The only people that can be affected by this video are complacent LGBT people who may now realise they risk losing whatever rights they have grown accustomed to. On the other hand, also the enemies of marriage equality may be motivated by this video to continue with their evil actions.

[SeanChapin1]

@valital, I hope that we see our government take a position through the Federal court cast against Prop 8 argued by Olsen/Boies.

[HUNTER831415]

oo do you guys hear that? listen to the negative attention, not something we need as a community. sorry!

[Raw8en]

This might have been better if it was compared to other civil rights issues like womens rights and African-American rights, but I still loved it!!

It was very well done.

[cherrydog9]

this video is overkill. you can't compare this to 9/11 or the atomic bombs.

this will not persuade the moderates we need to persuade. it will do the opposite.

[depfox]

This video was made by sean for gay people and our apathy. I dont think he ment it to be aimed at moderates. Our civil rights are under atack and a lot of us are just sitting and wathching it happen

[Clemburke1111]

yes

[summersonset]

Clemburke, ever heard of a Catch22? This is one. You need the SC to legalize SSmarriage and be done with voting per state, but you need to vote per state in order to get it to the SC. ;=) I hope that made sense.

[Clemburke1111]

Yes, it is a catch 22, but most of life is.

[godonlyknows1101]

Nice! 5 stars for a moving message goosebumps on my arms!

[talentguynyc]

The University of Maine voted No on 1 81% to 19%, so the future looks great. The young people of America get it!! ;)

[mykiskoart]

Very powerful. Thank you for sharing.

[americancarguy]

This is so very true, I would like nothing more then to see the government stand and take notice, to protect the rights of all it citizens. I know in WA we won in getting voters to approve a separate but (inherently un)equal system of gay rights, but I can not express in worlds how frustrating and disheartening it is to know that just 38 miles away from where I live, I am viewed as a full equal under the law, that I could be married, yet at home I can't.

Matthew Simonds.

[taroliw]

Well, i would only point out that our rights have been voted down in 31 states, not just two. That's why I firmly believe that any attempt to establish our rights by a vote is unlikely to succeed. We need to find relief in the courts and with legislators.

[depfox]

I think things will change each new generation gets it more and more. I guess I just wish we didnt have to wait untill then ;O(

[summersonset]

I agree with you. And I think the 2 states that are mentioned is because gay marriage was already legalized in those 2, and then reversed, and the others it hadnt been legalized, but banned before that (correct me if Im wrong).

[Clemburke1111]

NH and MA have never been reversed, they had civil unions prior to marriage,,but this can go on and on for decades NH and MA can very go te way of ME as Easily as ME was turned over.

[depfox]

you are correct its one thing when conservative states ban something that doesnt exist its another when people have the right and then it is taken away from them by the majority. there is a difference

[summersonset]

Another thing I wondered about. In Europe there is the European Court for the Rights of Humans. As a European citizen you can go there, if your country messes with stuff that is not right. There are also several European Commisions that can and do alert European Union members when they violate human rights. It seems the US is missing an 'outsider' when it comes to them 'messing with human rights'. Is that correct?

[depfox]

Id love to see europe some day put preasure on America for its Human Rights issues

[summersonset]

depfox, I never hear/read something about it, but it might be that behind closed doors, some countries do talk to the US about it, or when foreign ministers talk. I could imagine for sure the Dutch foreign minster told Hilary to hurry up with this issue. I will let you know if I read or hear something about it.

[mindya12]

Excellent points. I agree. We do have to take the decision in Maine as a very real threat.

[truthspeakstome]

This was a great video everyone needs to see this 5/5

[LukeBasarab]

Nicely made but I don't think that denying gay people right should be compared to wars or the attack on WTC. it's more similar to treating black people as III class citizens in the past century.

Those are just different types of threat to your country.

[SeanChapin1]

Hi LukeBasarab - the reason why I compared the gay marriage issue to the WTC attack, the Southern state secessions and the WWII atom bombs is that all four events illustrated a shared point: the second time is much more alarming than the first, because it proves that there is something else far bigger going on , and there could be a third time, a fourth time, etc. All related governments respected the severity of each situation and responded accordingly to each event (save gay marriage).

[SeanChapin1]

LukeBasarab (con't) - I think many people are criticizing my comparison of gay marriage to the other events because on the surface they are different: the other events affected us profoundly and deeply because lives were lost. However, if people look deeper, each of these events in their own way proved to be the worst attack of its kind to the values of our country, and voting to take away fundamental civil rights from its people to me is just as serious as the WTC attacks or 1860's Civil War.

[SeanChapin1]

LukeBasarab (con't) - so the point of making this video is to wake people up and prove that voting to take away fundamental civil rights from its people REALLY IS just as serious as the WTC attacks or 1860's Civil War, and we as Americans must treat this event as a grave warning that all fundamental civil rights for any minority group are now threatened and call on our government to act on this threat. Never before has this ever happened in the 233-year history of our country until now.

[depfox]

I agree Sean, I think that people need to understand at one time Germany was a very liberal country with gay rights then came the first world war and Hitler, that changed everything. People can do horrible things to people that are considered "less then"..... We as gay men & women are under attack here in the USA the conservative agenda has decided it is politicaly correct to attack gay people and our families.

[Clemburke1111]

depox the first world war ended gay rights in Germany? WW1?

[summersonset]

Clemburke, during and after WW2. Is there any big chance your state will put it on a vote? I was wondering why for example, this hasnt happenen in Massachussetts? But did now happen in Maine and maybe in your state.

[Clemburke1111]

Summer I am a litle lost at what your asking.

[summersonset]

Clemburke, what I mean is, because you say you fear in NH your rights might be voted away, how likely is it there will be a referendum on gay marriage (like in Maine) and I also wondered why, for example in Massachusetts gay marriage, after it being legalized, wasnt put up for a vote (NOT that I want it!) like in Maine. Why does one state do it, and another doesnt? I hope Im clear?

[depfox]

In Massachusetts the polititians have to put it up for a vote to the people and they refused to do so because they understood that the Majority has never voted to protect the minority. Not with slavery not with womens rights not with segregation not with interacial marriage. & now not with gay marriage.

[summersonset]

depfox, Massachusetts really rocks! They really *get* it. That is an exception while it should be the rule. Thanks.

[Clemburke1111]

summer actually I live in Ma and Ma gay marriage can be voted away in 2012

[depfox]

:O( sad truly sad

[Clemburke1111]

depox ,in NH and MA there are already bills being worked on by the republican parties to have their states repeal and amend both gay marriage rights,, as unfair and unjust and not the will of the people,,and it can pass. Every time the gay community high fives each other with that "go girl "chit,,, it nausitates me, because we need a ground swell of support and conversation in our commnities and less cocktail parties. We need to assimilate.

[cherrydog9]

we high fived each other with "go girl chit"? on what planet?

[Clemburke1111]

cherry as a gay man ,,that is married with two children living in Boston ,,that is what I witnessed from my fellow gay brothers and sisters.

[cherrydog9]

i'm sorry but i really question your characterization of celebration in mass after marriage was legalized as leather chaps, drag and "go girl". i just don't buy it.

[Clemburke1111]

Cherry ,and I am not selling it.

[Clemburke1111]

There will be TWO constitutional amendments presented to the Legislature in NH January when it reconvenes ,,and they look likely to pass,,and then it will go to the polls November of 2010

[cherrydog9]

no they do not look likely to pass actually

[Clemburke1111]

The worst thing the gay community ever did was when MA received gay marriage was that they talked trash to the straights on the street,,and did that "hey Girl" crap, and parades for days,,leather chaps drag etc , it put a bad taste in people mouths of that state and they never forgot it,

[Clemburke1111]

depox,,uh I live here in MA and yes it can be taken away after 2012,,it is remote but a true possibility.

[depfox]

:O( that sucks to hear can you educate us how?

[Clemburke1111]

We need to hold classes, study groups on the laws of each state that we reside in and know them, and we need to shed the gay parades etc,,this sounds very harsh and it will get a negative reaction but we deserve what we put out there. We need to step back and look at the gay community through the straights persons eyes.

[Clemburke1111]

Summer first off NH is already trying to pass two bills to get rid of gay marriage before or after it starts and I live in Boston MA,,and it alos can ber voted away after 2012,,no state is safe not even iowa.

[summersonset]

Clemburke, I cant believe this. It goes further than mindblowing, this is horror. First the voting for others rights, and then on top, when you have them, they can be taken away. Then you can try to get it back, suppose you succeed as a state, but then it can be taken away again! This is really abusive. I think its fair and appropriate to use that word here. ;(

[Clemburke1111]

summer , yes its unfair,,but in about 30 to 40 yrs we may get lucky if we get the Supreme Court to make it a federal law,,,,but the gay community is so vapid and uneducated as a whole that its disgusting,,but when I bring this up as a gay man ,,every one turns on me,,,I do not really care any more.

[summersonset]

Clemburke, you mean other gay people turn on you when you mention it? Also, like you I have my hopes on the Supreme Court for you. This is just crazy. And I think 30 to 40 years is way too long. But there is still hope. But this will be a black page in US history. In fact, it already is.

[Clemburke1111]

summer, we are going to need at least 50 % of the country to have gay marriage in their states before the supreme Court will even hear such a case, we now have only 10% .Yes Other gays do turn on me for example my family and I went out to San Diego for a visit and I talked to many many gay men and women about the issue of gay marriage,,and they were so daft on the specifics of the issue,,it was frightning.

[summersonset]

Clemburke, I will get back to you later on.

[summersonset]

Clemburke, you mention 10% and say the Supreme Court needs at least 50% to have gay marriage before the courts. On what is that 10% based? On polls? How is that calculated?

[Clemburke1111]

summer we have 5 states with gay marriage, one NH will happen Jan 1st,,with 5 states out of 50 that is 10%

[summersonset]

Clemburke, youre saying that you need gay marriage in half of all states before it can go before SC? Or am I misunderstanding you?

[romeogar]

omg that was so powerful ,, i hope this helps in making a differce ,, you need to send it on to news show and more to get it out there and to the matthew shepard foundation who is frighting very hard ,,all the best guys fab vid again love the effects xx

[bilong92]

I hope this will get featured.

[phantomsluva]

Amazing. Succinct. Powerful.

Wonderful job!

[bobby472]

WOW this video is awesome. It should be aired on TV.

[orangegoblin82]

This is a Sean Chaplin Video yeah?

He is so good, he makes so many good videos and doesn't get half the number of hits he should.

[watertower12]

This is an awesome video. It makes me want to do something. So it needs part 2,,, what to do, I've written my congressmen (state and local) I've contriibuted to Human Rights Campaign and Mass for Equality. I took the straight ally pledge. I told my friends and family.. I comment and rate the videos... but I still want to do something more, and everyone should.

[miamlarda]

wow!!

[MxAxL]

Wow. Everything about this video is perfectly thought out. I love it! Is there a possibility of this airing on T.V.?

[depfox]

I wish

[MxAxL]

Why couldn't it?

[stephmesee]

Wow what a powerful video!!! Awesome!

[preventionofgayabuse]

OMG this video literaly brought tears to my eyes this has made me want to fight even harder. AMERICA WAKE UP STOP TAKING YOUR CITIZENS RIGHT AWAY

[Clemburke1111]

New Hampshire is next and that state is going to be easy to take gay marriage away,,that will happen in 2010

[LeonSKennedy828]

It shouldn't be though, basic human rights should NOT be decided by a fucking vote.

[bearchewtoy75]

The state of Maine might as well get rid of their lawmakers and let uninformed citizens make all the laws.

[Clemburke1111]

Why is every one angry with what I said about New Hampshire in 2010???,,I am gay and married and want NH to stay safe,,but it will most likely be voted away.

[depfox]

LOL was probably the matter of fact way you put it :O) not sure if they new you were gay.

[thedancetuber]

gr8 vid!

[garysdeskcom]

Excellent video. Very powerful.

[tommy2tone]

That is a AWESOME video. I need to let Sean know.  Thank You Leffew family.

[rainbowpagan]

that was a great video really powerful and true

[kwertie]

now that was a good video!

[Darkuser22]

Thats a very nice video your friend wanted you to share with us :)

[MsCathianne]

And when they came for me, no one was left to speak out.

[Comixbear1]

Very thought provoking. I just keep thinking that, unfortunately, our government will sit on it's hands and pretend that there is nothing they can do. Pessimistic? Yes. Realistic? Yes. After all, look at all they are doing for the health of PWA's over the years. ;(

[mysticmagic4760]

Terrific Video!!

[cool3929]

GREAT ONE!

[Germany124]

Awesome video.

Great points, should be shortened and made into a commercial.

[VlogasaurusFlex]

Excellent.

[oscarrs13]

great video depfox!