"Truth doesn't come to you from the categories of logic... it comes to you from; beauty, it comes to you from reading fiction - especially literature [...good literature...]"
I feel that "Truth" really has to be defined here!!!
I see erupting volcanos as beautiful and consider Mickey Spillane as literature. So, there's the truth y'all.
Proof that the bible is true: Good fiction is truer than non-fiction, the bible is the greatest work of fiction ever made, it is therefore more true than all other fiction and non-fiction alike.
What is he actually talking about in his final statement, believing consciousness is an outcome of the brain and that the brain is clearly made of molecules then … end of creativity and human values?
This minister couldn't debate his way out of a wet paper bag. I noticed Matt doesn't seem to get alot of time for rebuttal either. Well maybe they (religous Folk) will see one day......Maybe!
@LetJimiT8keOver The Bible, as all the other books, are works of fiction, aren't they? Perhaps that's why he relies on it to get access to the Truth! :P
This man sure loves post hoc and slippery slope fallacy. ._.
Atheists and Christians have both commited acts that most people would consider evil. Being an atheist or a christian doesn't make you evil. The reason people do evil things is something beyond just religious belief. People who used Religious notions to justify evil actions were probably the same kind of people who applied Darwins Natural Selection to justify their own.
Whenever my Dad starts to lose an argument he gets louder to compensate. Same here with Fr. Jacobse, sad really. Of course throughout Christian history, first they talk to you, then preach, then scream, then kill you if you still don't believe. So really Fr. Jacobse is just following the accepted pattern.
The poor preacher. He tried to argue with Matt. You can't beat Matt, he argues with thousands of crazies. Shame he just started yelling about Gulags and Death Camps, he seemed like such a nice guy.
Oh jeez, he started to get crazy and preach. Thank you guy who made the comment, "You're lying!"
The fathers examples of atheism leading to death camps and gulags baffles me. In addition to that we can point to MANY examples of, "Christian" morality that led to mass genocide, mass murders, torture, rape... the list goes on..
What is "radical atheism"? What the heck makes an atheist "radical"? Is the idea that atheists comparatively dick measure their disbelief in god with other atheists?
"Radical" atheism is a silly term. Further more, there are no "atheist presuppositions." In fact, atheism inherently rids the presupposition that god exists. I see theist still deeply misunderstand such a simple concept of disbelief.
There is a difference between quantifiable and demonstrable though, LOL. I cant quantify morality for example. How ever, I can demonstrate that it exists. I cant quantify happines (maybe we can with brain scanners, but nevermind that) but I can demonstrate ITS existence. So if god isnt neither, why the hell would you believe it?
its obvious that the father figures out he is "outgunned" and starts dancing around the questions Matt puts to him. the "see you're not true to the atheist presuppositions" part is another way of him saying, I don't want to fight you because your making me look silly, so I will just compliment you. and its pathetic when in the middle he stops and says he wants to have a beer with Matt. it just showed how beaten he was that he had nothing left that would persuade anyone.
IF SECULARISM AND REASON LEAD US TO SUCH HORRIBLE THINGS THEN PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE FATHER GIVE ME ONE JUST ONE EXAMPLE!!!! I can name a few that involve religion, such as the wars in the middle east, THE DARK AGES, the spanish inquisition... the list goes ON AND ON of how RELIGION has destroyed us as a human race NOT REASON OR SECULARISM !!! AMERICA IS BASED DIRECTLY OFF OF SECULARISM!!!! GIVE ME A FUCKING BREAK!! TALK ABOUT KNOWING HISTORY!!
'truth doesnt come from the categories of logic' only a priest could say such a thing, a mind embedded in the sensible, the aesthetical and the moral, a mind that relies on emotion.
music is a language, that communicates feelings and abstractions. music is something verifiably real: it's sound organized, it has its laws and principles, it's not irrational. the message though might not have anything to do with logic. but gods' existence cannot be justified by our sensing them in our emotions.
What a Cock! Where was the Priests fire at the beginning! When Mat could have responded in his full amount of time to these crazy claims. The Assertions the Priest makes are ludicrous, while saying he doesn't hold atheists responsible for Atrocities, he lists off them as reasons he opposes atheism!
I hope Matt kicks his verbal arse in the next section, or at least rescinds the offer of a beer of his dishonesty.
i was waiting for the moderator to say at the end of that BS fatherJacobse , what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
Forgive my language but why the fuck does he keep referring to Atheism as a dogma of some sort. There are NO presuppositions because it is simply a RESPONSE to a claim. Secondly, "...the atheist project has been a bloody one..".....Is this douche serious?... I have one word for this dude..."yo 'father 'google the crusades...just sayin..."
the priest has got a gift te gift of imagination now he just needs to go to school and learn about psychology and philosophy so he can structure his ideas
"... what is music? Is music reason? No. It's not. But is music reasonable? Yes. But it transcends the very categories of reason because it communicates something greater than the categories of reason themselves can posess. It's not unreasonable, it's part of reason..." - Father Hans Jacobse.
haha when he says that truth comes to you through fiction i bet Matt wants to get up and shout ''SIT DOWN YOU COMPLETE MORON!''.. i mean come on, truth is fiction is it? WTF is this guy on ??
WTF is molesty priest guy even saying? Snake oil salesman. He is all rhetoric, subterfuge, distraction and bullshit. Why can't he, and all the other Christians, just say, "I don't know"?
This is saying that atheism will result in tyranny, concentration camps, etc? THE BELIEF IN GOD HAS HISTORICALLY BEEN THE SOURCE OF ALL THESE MONSTROUS THINGS! Seriously, this ass clown should shut up and sit down.
Father Hans, I will thank you not to invoke Hitchens as if he wouldn't be the first to decimate every flimsy self-contradictory argument you've presented through this sad debate.
I wish Matt had gone after this piece of garbage more and attacked him on the priests assertions that secularism has caused untold harm and bloodshed. I thought he addressed Hitler at best Mediocre, but should have pushed it more, as well as communism since it was not atheist driven. Also he did not both to bring up the bloodshed that religion has caused and we have very recent examples of it! Matt, I love ya for doing this, but you should have come after him harder, you got the facts.
Hans's belief system seems paradoxical. If he believes fiction is truer than non-fiction, and he believes that atheists hold fictitious "beliefs", then he must "logically" believe that said beliefs are true. Just kidding. His transcendentalism "obviously" allows him to see above it all to the differences. LOL
This priest is attacking a lot of strawmen. Atheists certainly don't believe reason is ALL there is, but it is our only demonstrably useful method for ascertaining truth. That's why his analogy with music is silly to think about - not because the priest has an actual point, but because music has nothing to do with truth values, the domain where reason operates. He's making a major category error, when he tells Matt that he's thinking in a category he rejects. Ironic.
Matt TOLD him that atheism isn't a doctrine, it's a lack of belief in god but he just can't get his head round it. Here he says secularism led to WWI and WW2! World War II was started by the Nazi party, not the secularist party!
He thinks atheism is nothing but cold hard reason and that somehow we're all blinded to art and music and what makes the world a beautiful place. I found that incredibly condescending.
"Secularism defined as the elimination of the sacred dimension of life, and all of life has a sacred character"
Translation:
Secularism defined as the questioning/rejection of my precious unfounded assertions.
Then he goes on to claim that the historical record is not kind to secularism, as If religion has this beautiful, lovey-dovey history as apposed to a long history of death and destruction.
You know Matt was dying to scream words like "fuck", and "idiot"' and "you moron"! Too bad Preacher wasn't a caller on the show. Matt could've dispensed with that polite banter and torn right in: "What the fuck are you talking about you pompous, long-winded douche?!"
Why is the atheist always first to speak and the theist always gets the last word? I have not yet seen a debate of this sort without the theist always getting to respond.
@fivestr1 i think it's because in the first video, the atheist won the coin toss, so he went first in his opening argument, then the priest, and so forth and so on. hope that cleared it up.
if i understand what jacobse is saying, not all parts of morality can be scientifically/logically "proven" like music is not reasonable. and belief is an added part to morality.
now in my opinion that added part, belief, is highly sensitive to outside interference and can be used as a Trojan horse. there is enough proof of that (why the hell would someone blow himself up for his god, simple example).
I actually agree with the Friar's (Fr.?) assertion that we can see/experience something beyond the merely rational in things like music, love, art, and so on, but once he pulls out that secular gulags/concentration camps I lose my willingness to find common ground with him.
@gmanj88 Actually he said that he hated how he prepared himself for the debate, only to find that the father just rambled on and on and said a whole lot of nothing. He was expecting a debate about the source of morality and was frustrated at how it basically turned into a debate of why you believe what you believe
@Danthepest1 True. But I just meant that, normally, he would be able to interject and ask something like "what the hell does that have to do with our debate topic?" The fact that it was a formal (take turns) format played against him in that way.
wow, the priest got pretty empassioned and preachy there for a minute. not sure what he's all worked up about because nothing he's said this entire time has made any sense. but at least it sounds like he's fully committed to it and wants the audience to be too.
Matt. You were much to kind to this scoundrel... If you were half as kind to him as you are the the callers on your show, he would be carried out on a stretcher... better luck next time... :)
This debate was killing me. Religion lets people who have stupid ideas have a podium to stand and share them and not feel stupid in doing so. In fact they feel invigorated in doing so. This makes my brain cry lol
"The Atheist Project"? Where do I join? They just don't get that there is no unified creed, movement or position, beyond a common lack of belief in gods. They seem to need to place us into their own kind of boxes.
Human creativity predates monotheism. It will survive the passing of all theism, should that happen.
Who are these "bloody" secularists? Most Nazis were Christians. Mao and Stalin opposed organised religion as an alternative power base, not due to atheism or secularism, per se.
Holy Moly. That guys says crazier things than Deepok Chopra. "Truth comes from fiction and music and beauty". WTF. How the hell did you come up with that? That is gibberish. Pure gibberish that the stupid masses like because it sounds pretty.
What the preacher fails to realize is that all the atrocities, which according to him stem from secular reasoning, are stemming from people employing logical fallacies in their reasoning.
The problem is not logical thinking. The problem is that people occasionally fail to think logically.
Their is nothing in religion that prevents these exact same logical fallacies. The only difference is that religious values, be the logically sound or not, take much longer to change.
Jacobse: "See you're not true to the atheist presuppositions!"
Translation: "Look Matt, I came here to debate a strawman, not some rational human being."
Jeez, Father, perhaps those presuppositions were your own invention and don't really exist. Way to blame your own inability to shoot the duck on the duck not sitting where you want it to.
@proudhug He's (Matt) asking him (Hans) for proof in material existence. There's a flaw in Matt's thinking here in that he believes that this proof must derive out of the physical universe and out of material reality. God is beyond that, even the Hindus will say that it's impossible to experience the source directly, you can only hint at it. That's why we have this ancient metaphor of something like Zen being a "finger pointing at a moon."
@Hanahleia Matt has said numerous times that it doesn't need to be physical evidence. He would just as well accept the existence of God if God decided to speak to the world in a voice that EVERYONE would hear and understand, or if, you pray to god for the winning ticket in a lottery every month and get it right every time, then there's something backing up your claims and he will accept that. What he doesn't accept is explanations of how and what people think their God to be.
@Danthepest1 Again, the fame fallacy applies here, your examples still come through a material reality that's embedded in our phyisical unverse. That's the only way he'd accept God? Well, that's absurd and not to mention, close-minded. Of course, that may just be how you interpreted his perspective, and it may not be the case in Matt's way of thinking.
@Hanahleia I was saying that those were just some of the way he described that you could prove God to him. And still, what other evidence is there? If one claims they had an outer body experience or feel God's presence or seeing Jesus visit them or whatever, that's all well and good, but they'd still have to prove it somehow. Otherwise, the claim is simply a claim and people aren't simply gonna take that person's word for it.
@Danthepest It's truly ironic, because that's how the mystery in fact works. God has always come through and hinted by the personal consciousness, and therefore cannot be proven to someone who holds that position, of course. Have you ever praticed form ancient forms of meditation? I believe Christ did probably walk this earth and had a mystical experience, which is exactly what the Buddha experienced, except he interpeted his experience through his religion, and Christ through his. Heard of DMT?
@Hanahleia Your response here is a total cop-out! You've essentially said "well, people that are trying to prove gods exist could never succeed because gods are tricky and don't reveal themselves to people that try to prove they exist. Nah-nah!" If not physical evidence, then what??
THINK about it! You are able to spell and articulate your thoughts well, which suggests that you are one of the intelligent theists. You don't need religion to be successful in life.
Haven't you heard? Atheists aren't real people. We're all actually robots assembled in on of Hitler's factories and programmed by Charles Darwin. We don't have any creative capabilities or moral issues as everything is preprogrammed.
It's difficult to pin him down on anything since he gave the cop out from the very beginning that the Bible isn't literal (which inspired a brilliantly simple question about Jebus). Oh and then there's the gem that you can't know the true nature of god, but he personally met Jebus... who smacked him on the road.
His preaching at the end is very insulting. I am an atheist and an author of fiction. A believe in god play no part in allowing me to create beauty and to transmit ideas through my writing. The reason fiction often seems to have greater morality than reality is because nobody can put in fiction the complexity of the natural world.
Hitchens is an American--and not from sheer dumb luck, but from actively choosing to be one. I suppose he's an Americunt in your book. You're going to say, "But he was born British, he got his brains and education from Britain." But if being American is to be an Americunt, then to choose to BE an Americunt negates the inherent intelligence. Good job.
(Do you stop to think about the absurdities you put out there?)
@VideoMenu . He retain`s British citizenenship even though he chose to have American citizenship because he disagree`s that the Queen is both the head of state and head of our church (Henry the 8th etc.....- have you a clue what I mean?= it`s history, something American`s lack.....................).
"it's history, something American's lack" pretty much sums up the utter lack of rational thought coming from you. On the plus side, at least you used an apostrophy correctly for once.
By the way, retaining any sort of British citizenship does not negate the fact that he is an American citizen (by choice), which is something you obviously look down upon from your oddly snobbish nose (on account of your unrefined low-class manner). This is basic common sense.
Have you a clue of common sense?=it's logic, something jjcc112's lack.
(sorry to have to explain such simple concepts to you. it can't be easy needing such hand holding)
@VideoMenu . "Obviously look down upon" - he can do what he like`s, I couldn`t care less. "Unrefined low class mannner"- that`s a "snobbish" thing to type don`t you think?.
How can a person with no common sense judge if they have it or not? - I thought you were logical. Btw, my username is jjmm112 not jjcc112, "at least you used an apostrophy correctly", shame about the space though ("?=it`s logic"). You missed an apostrophy ("concept`s") and a sentence begin`s with a capital letter.
Wait, I just realized, is he really saying that music and fiction and art would all go away if religion went away? He admits to going to Borders, so he can't be that ignorant of culture. He's convinced himself of his own madness. I think these people are brainwashed by years of sheepish people eagerly hanging on their every dogmatic word.
@AndresUppsala1 He doesn't sound like that to me. In fact, he is sort of the equivalent to a nuclear bomb exploding in slow motion; starting small and ending with a radiation showering, city vaporizing shockwave.
Father Whathisface completely bullshitted is way through how Christianity saved us from slavery "left over from Paganism" despite the very cold fact that slavery is in his bible, and he has the balls to warn us that atheism will beget us more concentration camps and the Gulag? Is he on crack? Nazism was supported by his own church and he's going to tell us "read your history"? Does he really believe his own bullshit or is he too used to being followed by gullible sheep and forgot for a second?
I like how Matt D. explained what an atheist actually is, a single position on a single claim... and in response, the clergyman starts arguing against his own idea of atheists. He doesn't even acknowledge Matt's point. It's like "Hey dude the debate is with Dillahunty, not the straw men you keep making."
@marsjacobvolta Yes and this is an extremely, almost default, common position. I find it monumentally frustrating to have explained what an atheist is and is not, AS an atheist, and then have the theist go "Yes but the dictionary..." It's a very good indicator their position is indefensible and not sound.
i think the hair styles say it all, one is quite happy to show himself in the real world ,while the other is fighting a battle to try and convince the world that he is something that he isnt hence the comb over ......oh dear!
The clarity of Matt's arguments stand in strong contrast to the muddy ramblings of the clergyman. And it is rather irritating that he constantly tries to smear atheists and secularists. In the end he tries to convince people by shouting his superstitions at them. At first I thought he might be a rather nice guy, but his true face is showing through the mask now.
Preaching doom and gloom of the evils that atheism will surely bring? Seriously? I thought this was supposed to be a debate. But I guess when you invite a priest you can expect a sermon...
I think the Father's fear is that atheism will lead to pure, unromanticized rationality, which he sees as the building block of a more sociopathic mindset. He's implying that if we believe that the human brain is "just" molecules, then it's no longer special and respectable (and therefore, people will be more likely to harm one another and less likely to value human life). There is, however, no reason to believe this other than paranoia and projection of his own sociopathic mindset onto others
So, Was the Crusades an atheist project? Spanish inquisition? Look into them even a little and they were both caused from religious sanctioned individuals. I will not disagree that Atheists have caused bloodshed, but there is no single person in the religious belief system that can argue that Atheists have caused MORE bloodshed than any single religion that follows the Bible or derivations of it.
Arab Muslim expansion, Crusades, Inquisition, Ottoman Muslim expansion, Reformation wars, Counter-reformation wars, 19th c. colonialism... Those were several centuries of more or less continuous bloody warfare.
Atheists who caused bloodshed on massive scales were more than just some atheists. They had a positive ideology, too. Ideology of a savior, declaring all the other religions as invalid, just as the Jesus or Muhammad characters did. (Mercilessly killing their enemies...)
@Wrath0fKhan I think you missed my point. True Atheists Have not caused Wars, Look up any of the Wars/Expansions you cited and there is a Religious faction supporting the war. Theists Have caused more wars/bloodshed than any atheist group.
Theist = Someone one who believes in the existence of a god or gods
Atheist = Someone who denies the existence Of a god or gods
I will consent that the 19th c. colonialism was not directly tied to any Religious group, But it was not 100's of years long
I dont think so. All I did was only "expanding" your position.
"true atheists have not caused wars"
Luckily atheism (or Atheism) is not "enough" to cause wars.
"existence"
Something like that.
"colonialism tied to religious groups"
General Christian supremacy and racism was still "flying" strong. The weakening of these ideologies based on science was perhaps delivered by Darwin. Even then there still was potential for "revival" (e.g. Third Reich).
@Wrath0fKhan OK, Sorry about that. Just not used to seeing anyone agree with another person in comments, and was still caught up on the comment about Hitler being atheist .
Ah... all that bollocks ending with scare tactics...
a priest dwelling in religion being scared of reality - nothing new here: move along!
ExtrackterYT 2 days ago in playlist Uploaded videos
"Truth doesn't come to you from the categories of logic... it comes to you from; beauty, it comes to you from reading fiction - especially literature [...good literature...]"
I feel that "Truth" really has to be defined here!!!
I see erupting volcanos as beautiful and consider Mickey Spillane as literature. So, there's the truth y'all.
ExtrackterYT 2 days ago in playlist Uploaded videos
He really lets his mask slip here.
BottleConcreteBlond 1 month ago
It really turns me off when he starts shouting.
BottleConcreteBlond 1 month ago
Proof that the bible is true: Good fiction is truer than non-fiction, the bible is the greatest work of fiction ever made, it is therefore more true than all other fiction and non-fiction alike.
bradkey98765 1 month ago
What is he actually talking about in his final statement, believing consciousness is an outcome of the brain and that the brain is clearly made of molecules then … end of creativity and human values?
bradkey98765 1 month ago
This minister couldn't debate his way out of a wet paper bag. I noticed Matt doesn't seem to get alot of time for rebuttal either. Well maybe they (religous Folk) will see one day......Maybe!
TheMuskokaman 1 month ago
I wish the camera would've shown Matt's face when this chucklehead screamed his line about "concentration camps and gulags".
TheAmericanCthulhu 2 months ago
8:35 Hmmm Fiction like...... the bible?
dciple12 2 months ago
@LetJimiT8keOver The Bible, as all the other books, are works of fiction, aren't they? Perhaps that's why he relies on it to get access to the Truth! :P
sabrinapaulas 2 months ago
This man sure loves post hoc and slippery slope fallacy. ._.
Atheists and Christians have both commited acts that most people would consider evil. Being an atheist or a christian doesn't make you evil. The reason people do evil things is something beyond just religious belief. People who used Religious notions to justify evil actions were probably the same kind of people who applied Darwins Natural Selection to justify their own.
TheMadJammer 3 months ago 2
Whenever my Dad starts to lose an argument he gets louder to compensate. Same here with Fr. Jacobse, sad really. Of course throughout Christian history, first they talk to you, then preach, then scream, then kill you if you still don't believe. So really Fr. Jacobse is just following the accepted pattern.
mjdon67 4 months ago
So the Father doesn't LIKE Madonna, but AGREES with her! Madonna DID say it, after all.. "Music makes the people come together...."
Boom.
TheAmericanCthulhu 4 months ago
13:21 is the best comment during the entire debate.
lhvinny 5 months ago
@lhvinny Agreed - Certainly nails the Priests colour to the mast at that point.
The audience reaction says it all
Uberlaser 4 months ago
i think a guy choked on his peanuts at 13:08
naughteedesign 5 months ago
bloody human lovers... i love the giggles in the background
naughteedesign 5 months ago
the NEW atheist... well the old atheist was a burnt char on a large stick
naughteedesign 5 months ago
profaning of culture ... madonna (really!)
this guys is judging madonna
naughteedesign 5 months ago
Music ... give in to your fear priest.
kloveless82 6 months ago
How does human creativity prove christianity true.
fatouche99 6 months ago
the holy ghost(sarcasm) distorts another mans sanity so sad
platnuim86 6 months ago
lol i like how the preacher dissed madonna's music ill give him a point 4 that
FIGHTFANNERD3 7 months ago
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god did it
FIGHTFANNERD3 7 months ago
why cant the religious grasp the idea that hitler was not an atheist
ArticPyro64 7 months ago
The poor preacher. He tried to argue with Matt. You can't beat Matt, he argues with thousands of crazies. Shame he just started yelling about Gulags and Death Camps, he seemed like such a nice guy.
ariuszarim 7 months ago 2
@ariuszarim sad indeed such a smart guy then u see him get all crazy like that religion does that to people
FIGHTFANNERD3 7 months ago
Oh jeez, he started to get crazy and preach. Thank you guy who made the comment, "You're lying!"
The fathers examples of atheism leading to death camps and gulags baffles me. In addition to that we can point to MANY examples of, "Christian" morality that led to mass genocide, mass murders, torture, rape... the list goes on..
evergreen9375 8 months ago
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WHAT A FUCKING RETARD.
Dartyn 8 months ago
What is "radical atheism"? What the heck makes an atheist "radical"? Is the idea that atheists comparatively dick measure their disbelief in god with other atheists?
"Radical" atheism is a silly term. Further more, there are no "atheist presuppositions." In fact, atheism inherently rids the presupposition that god exists. I see theist still deeply misunderstand such a simple concept of disbelief.
bb1televator 8 months ago 3
And debating turned to preaching. Yay...
._.
Moreba 9 months ago 13
Even the most rationally minded religious professional starts to sound crazy if you let them talk.
The Father simply breaks into a PC version of threats of fire and brimstone. It's never anything other than punishment and reward for these folks.
I'm not a puppy dog. I can determine whether something is right or wrong without needing to get a doggy biscuit as encouragement.
MrOttopants 9 months ago 5
There is a difference between quantifiable and demonstrable though, LOL. I cant quantify morality for example. How ever, I can demonstrate that it exists. I cant quantify happines (maybe we can with brain scanners, but nevermind that) but I can demonstrate ITS existence. So if god isnt neither, why the hell would you believe it?
gulbirk 9 months ago
its obvious that the father figures out he is "outgunned" and starts dancing around the questions Matt puts to him. the "see you're not true to the atheist presuppositions" part is another way of him saying, I don't want to fight you because your making me look silly, so I will just compliment you. and its pathetic when in the middle he stops and says he wants to have a beer with Matt. it just showed how beaten he was that he had nothing left that would persuade anyone.
redshiftexperiment 9 months ago
IF SECULARISM AND REASON LEAD US TO SUCH HORRIBLE THINGS THEN PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE FATHER GIVE ME ONE JUST ONE EXAMPLE!!!! I can name a few that involve religion, such as the wars in the middle east, THE DARK AGES, the spanish inquisition... the list goes ON AND ON of how RELIGION has destroyed us as a human race NOT REASON OR SECULARISM !!! AMERICA IS BASED DIRECTLY OFF OF SECULARISM!!!! GIVE ME A FUCKING BREAK!! TALK ABOUT KNOWING HISTORY!!
KidPunkStar101 9 months ago
Hey father I have some toilet paper, if you want to clean up all that shit you just spilled out!
gabbogabbo 10 months ago
'truth doesnt come from the categories of logic' only a priest could say such a thing, a mind embedded in the sensible, the aesthetical and the moral, a mind that relies on emotion.
sirdelrio 10 months ago
music is a language, that communicates feelings and abstractions. music is something verifiably real: it's sound organized, it has its laws and principles, it's not irrational. the message though might not have anything to do with logic. but gods' existence cannot be justified by our sensing them in our emotions.
sirdelrio 10 months ago
xD I bet Matt would just cut him off he shows up in the Atheist Experience Show LOL
Triaxionality 11 months ago
What a Cock! Where was the Priests fire at the beginning! When Mat could have responded in his full amount of time to these crazy claims. The Assertions the Priest makes are ludicrous, while saying he doesn't hold atheists responsible for Atrocities, he lists off them as reasons he opposes atheism!
I hope Matt kicks his verbal arse in the next section, or at least rescinds the offer of a beer of his dishonesty.
TheBoyFromNorfolk 11 months ago
NO! i wanna live in a nice happy world... EVERYONE does. The future based in LOGIC and REASON would be good unless people leave the logic and reason.
CoolParkourName 11 months ago
i was waiting for the moderator to say at the end of that BS fatherJacobse , what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
acewizhyde 11 months ago
Forgive my language but why the fuck does he keep referring to Atheism as a dogma of some sort. There are NO presuppositions because it is simply a RESPONSE to a claim. Secondly, "...the atheist project has been a bloody one..".....Is this douche serious?... I have one word for this dude..."yo 'father 'google the crusades...just sayin..."
stranger201 11 months ago
the priest has got a gift te gift of imagination now he just needs to go to school and learn about psychology and philosophy so he can structure his ideas
A1z1u1L 11 months ago
Typical preacher. Shouting to distract from the fact that he's not making any damn points.
leaptheman 11 months ago
What the hell
Up to this part I thought he was well... a believer but okay
Why the fuck did he mess it up? He goes completely mental and screams falsehoods oO
TheStrayCross 11 months ago
2:07
"... what is music? Is music reason? No. It's not. But is music reasonable? Yes. But it transcends the very categories of reason because it communicates something greater than the categories of reason themselves can posess. It's not unreasonable, it's part of reason..." - Father Hans Jacobse.
This man smokes highly potent weed.
88Keyz101 11 months ago
Your lying!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
FutureScience2012 11 months ago
haha when he says that truth comes to you through fiction i bet Matt wants to get up and shout ''SIT DOWN YOU COMPLETE MORON!''.. i mean come on, truth is fiction is it? WTF is this guy on ??
theUKatheist 11 months ago
"Matt wins!!" .. JUST COPY AND PASTE THAT once if you think that Matt OWNED the priest lol
theUKatheist 11 months ago
WTF is molesty priest guy even saying? Snake oil salesman. He is all rhetoric, subterfuge, distraction and bullshit. Why can't he, and all the other Christians, just say, "I don't know"?
PublishingCult 11 months ago
This is saying that atheism will result in tyranny, concentration camps, etc? THE BELIEF IN GOD HAS HISTORICALLY BEEN THE SOURCE OF ALL THESE MONSTROUS THINGS! Seriously, this ass clown should shut up and sit down.
PublishingCult 11 months ago
I am not the molecules that make up my brain! I am the molecules that make up the entirety of my body!
daemonowner 1 year ago
This guy is crazier than a box of rocks
thach1ef 1 year ago
Wow, he really stepped on the crazy throttle in this one.
comface 1 year ago
The louder I talk, the TRUTHER IS WHAT I SAY!!!!!!!!!!!111111
juxdlx 1 year ago 54
It was pretty civil until he started saying non-religion leads to concentration camps and got all conspiracy theory happy.
supafly345 1 year ago 3
Fr. Hans Jacobse = Fail. Really, that's all I can say at this point of the debate.
BloodRedLegend 1 year ago
I had set aside over an hour to watch this whole thing.
I really can't stomach much more.
What a sad little brain that priest has.
nemirn 1 year ago 3
the only thing that secularism hurts, his this guys pocket
shaneisawesome11 1 year ago 4
Father Hans, I will thank you not to invoke Hitchens as if he wouldn't be the first to decimate every flimsy self-contradictory argument you've presented through this sad debate.
DocBlasto 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Religious people are sick.
Diakletika 1 year ago
I wish Matt had gone after this piece of garbage more and attacked him on the priests assertions that secularism has caused untold harm and bloodshed. I thought he addressed Hitler at best Mediocre, but should have pushed it more, as well as communism since it was not atheist driven. Also he did not both to bring up the bloodshed that religion has caused and we have very recent examples of it! Matt, I love ya for doing this, but you should have come after him harder, you got the facts.
dallased25 1 year ago
@dallased25 100% agree
skippydeenice 1 year ago
Hans's belief system seems paradoxical. If he believes fiction is truer than non-fiction, and he believes that atheists hold fictitious "beliefs", then he must "logically" believe that said beliefs are true. Just kidding. His transcendentalism "obviously" allows him to see above it all to the differences. LOL
LovetoRescue 1 year ago
Yeah the point where the priest shouts? Its his presumed best point. I wonder why no one applauded.
supleted 1 year ago
OMG this Priest has no idea what Atheism is.... He rambles on about absolutely nothing and won't answer Matts questions directly.
xNoReligionx 1 year ago
Interesting, even the audience objected to his BS fallback to yet another Hitler and Stalin invocation.
RhunDraco 1 year ago
This priest is attacking a lot of strawmen. Atheists certainly don't believe reason is ALL there is, but it is our only demonstrably useful method for ascertaining truth. That's why his analogy with music is silly to think about - not because the priest has an actual point, but because music has nothing to do with truth values, the domain where reason operates. He's making a major category error, when he tells Matt that he's thinking in a category he rejects. Ironic.
TaylorX04 1 year ago
In few words if Humanity forgets about God & the Bible and go for rational thinking then bad things are going to happen.
Well, I wonder how bad things would be in the middle east if Jews & Arabs would forget about religion and use rational thinking instead?
hashimirasama 1 year ago
He waves his arms to take attention away from his ridiculous argument.
atheism616 1 year ago
Matt TOLD him that atheism isn't a doctrine, it's a lack of belief in god but he just can't get his head round it. Here he says secularism led to WWI and WW2! World War II was started by the Nazi party, not the secularist party!
He thinks atheism is nothing but cold hard reason and that somehow we're all blinded to art and music and what makes the world a beautiful place. I found that incredibly condescending.
tecciztucatl 1 year ago 2
"Secularism defined as the elimination of the sacred dimension of life, and all of life has a sacred character"
Translation:
Secularism defined as the questioning/rejection of my precious unfounded assertions.
Then he goes on to claim that the historical record is not kind to secularism, as If religion has this beautiful, lovey-dovey history as apposed to a long history of death and destruction.
geoffpot 1 year ago
How the hell will the world lose music if more became atheists?
AlecANDleckan 1 year ago
ha, too funny, the guy lost all his imaginary credibility at the end.
the "goooo-lag!", hahahaha
shangerboy 1 year ago 2
"It comes to you through reading fiction..."
Like The Bible?
madhillick 1 year ago 3
"Is music reason?"
Well, two of the biggest programs used by professionals when editing digital audio are called Logic (by Apple) and Reason (by Propellerhead). :)
ProfessorMacintosh 1 year ago
"The essence of meaning.."
Oh, fuck off.
Scanini 1 year ago 2
Jacobse: "Secularism is defined as the elimination or negation of the sacred dimension of life."
Translation: "Secularism gets rid of the imaginary bullshit not needed in life."
Well spoken, Mr. Jacobse.
jda379 1 year ago
You know Matt was dying to scream words like "fuck", and "idiot"' and "you moron"! Too bad Preacher wasn't a caller on the show. Matt could've dispensed with that polite banter and torn right in: "What the fuck are you talking about you pompous, long-winded douche?!"
ThirdRAILKink 1 year ago
Priest, snake-oil salesman, NO difference...he's absurd.
JOHNINCOLUMBUS 1 year ago
Why is the atheist always first to speak and the theist always gets the last word? I have not yet seen a debate of this sort without the theist always getting to respond.
fivestr1 1 year ago
@fivestr1 i think it's because in the first video, the atheist won the coin toss, so he went first in his opening argument, then the priest, and so forth and so on. hope that cleared it up.
wanderlei85 1 year ago
His ranting at the end here no longer has anything to do with morality. Bravo, good sir, your horse is so high you've lost sight of the ground.
kreskinkun 1 year ago
The Father's words are heavy with generalizations and labels.
Resistant79 1 year ago
I find the Father's irrational deductions perfectly amusing right until 13:15. At that point I wanted to punch him in the face. =P
dycarbon1 1 year ago 20
Noo! I want to hear the jokes!! =(
dycarbon1 1 year ago
and he lost my respect at 13:00 dont forget to blame atheism on the creation of hell :P
TheGulGarak 1 year ago 3
This has been flagged as spam show
@clem2511
music is not reasonable. there just random sounds with a pattern but not all patterns are music (ofc it depends on your definition of music).
another example i like heavy metal but someone else thinks heavy metal is just a weird static noise
TheGulGarak 1 year ago
Comment removed
TheGulGarak 1 year ago
if i understand what jacobse is saying, not all parts of morality can be scientifically/logically "proven" like music is not reasonable. and belief is an added part to morality.
now in my opinion that added part, belief, is highly sensitive to outside interference and can be used as a Trojan horse. there is enough proof of that (why the hell would someone blow himself up for his god, simple example).
TheGulGarak 1 year ago
"Music is reasonable"... What does that even mean?
clem2511 1 year ago 3
@clem2511 He might change his opinion on that if we get him to listen to "Achy Breaky Heart" by Billy Ray Cyrus.
MultiSteveB 1 year ago
I actually agree with the Friar's (Fr.?) assertion that we can see/experience something beyond the merely rational in things like music, love, art, and so on, but once he pulls out that secular gulags/concentration camps I lose my willingness to find common ground with him.
greywulf556 1 year ago
Poor Matt. You know he's just hating this more formal debate format.
"Let's take turns so you can't embarrass the poor guy"
gmanj88 1 year ago
@gmanj88 Actually he said that he hated how he prepared himself for the debate, only to find that the father just rambled on and on and said a whole lot of nothing. He was expecting a debate about the source of morality and was frustrated at how it basically turned into a debate of why you believe what you believe
Danthepest1 1 year ago
@Danthepest1 True. But I just meant that, normally, he would be able to interject and ask something like "what the hell does that have to do with our debate topic?" The fact that it was a formal (take turns) format played against him in that way.
gmanj88 1 year ago
Are all priests living facepalms? He would burn in hell for his intellectual dishonesty.... were there a hell.
Split539 1 year ago 5
wow, the priest got pretty empassioned and preachy there for a minute. not sure what he's all worked up about because nothing he's said this entire time has made any sense. but at least it sounds like he's fully committed to it and wants the audience to be too.
saburoemon 1 year ago
fuck this guy for blaming secularism for "bloody history".
DoctorMeh 1 year ago 2
Matt. You were much to kind to this scoundrel... If you were half as kind to him as you are the the callers on your show, he would be carried out on a stretcher... better luck next time... :)
InHousePussy 1 year ago
"You're Lying" I laughed my ass off when that guy shouted that.
jordant1717 1 year ago 2
@jordant1717
"the time for questions and answers has not started yet." Because that was totally a question. you're lying?
mrbananas8 1 year ago
This debate was killing me. Religion lets people who have stupid ideas have a podium to stand and share them and not feel stupid in doing so. In fact they feel invigorated in doing so. This makes my brain cry lol
moety2 1 year ago
The priest's view is thinly veiled bigotry.
shreddakj 1 year ago 4
"The Atheist Project"? Where do I join? They just don't get that there is no unified creed, movement or position, beyond a common lack of belief in gods. They seem to need to place us into their own kind of boxes.
Human creativity predates monotheism. It will survive the passing of all theism, should that happen.
Who are these "bloody" secularists? Most Nazis were Christians. Mao and Stalin opposed organised religion as an alternative power base, not due to atheism or secularism, per se.
aido92 1 year ago 3
secularism will destroy humanity.... mmm, ok, if you say so
technosasquatch 1 year ago
Holy Moly. That guys says crazier things than Deepok Chopra. "Truth comes from fiction and music and beauty". WTF. How the hell did you come up with that? That is gibberish. Pure gibberish that the stupid masses like because it sounds pretty.
burgerboy06 1 year ago 2
@burgerboy06 I burst out laughing when I heard him say that.
Grymyrk 1 year ago
All he does is preach bullshit. This is the worst debate I've ever sat through.
AmericanCritiquer 1 year ago 2
when this guy gets to preaching it's impossible to follow. i have no idea what he's talking about. he talks a lot without really saying anything.
controlledentropy 1 year ago
What the preacher fails to realize is that all the atrocities, which according to him stem from secular reasoning, are stemming from people employing logical fallacies in their reasoning.
The problem is not logical thinking. The problem is that people occasionally fail to think logically.
Their is nothing in religion that prevents these exact same logical fallacies. The only difference is that religious values, be the logically sound or not, take much longer to change.
Iryanmadayana 1 year ago 4
What is a radical atheist? He writes a book instead of blowing himself up?
StopSpamming1 1 year ago
Jacobse: "See you're not true to the atheist presuppositions!"
Translation: "Look Matt, I came here to debate a strawman, not some rational human being."
Jeez, Father, perhaps those presuppositions were your own invention and don't really exist. Way to blame your own inability to shoot the duck on the duck not sitting where you want it to.
proudhug 1 year ago 54
@proudhug He's (Matt) asking him (Hans) for proof in material existence. There's a flaw in Matt's thinking here in that he believes that this proof must derive out of the physical universe and out of material reality. God is beyond that, even the Hindus will say that it's impossible to experience the source directly, you can only hint at it. That's why we have this ancient metaphor of something like Zen being a "finger pointing at a moon."
Hanahleia 1 year ago
@Hanahleia Matt has said numerous times that it doesn't need to be physical evidence. He would just as well accept the existence of God if God decided to speak to the world in a voice that EVERYONE would hear and understand, or if, you pray to god for the winning ticket in a lottery every month and get it right every time, then there's something backing up your claims and he will accept that. What he doesn't accept is explanations of how and what people think their God to be.
Danthepest1 1 year ago
@Danthepest1 Again, the fame fallacy applies here, your examples still come through a material reality that's embedded in our phyisical unverse. That's the only way he'd accept God? Well, that's absurd and not to mention, close-minded. Of course, that may just be how you interpreted his perspective, and it may not be the case in Matt's way of thinking.
Hanahleia 1 year ago
@Hanahleia I was saying that those were just some of the way he described that you could prove God to him. And still, what other evidence is there? If one claims they had an outer body experience or feel God's presence or seeing Jesus visit them or whatever, that's all well and good, but they'd still have to prove it somehow. Otherwise, the claim is simply a claim and people aren't simply gonna take that person's word for it.
Danthepest1 1 year ago
@Danthepest It's truly ironic, because that's how the mystery in fact works. God has always come through and hinted by the personal consciousness, and therefore cannot be proven to someone who holds that position, of course. Have you ever praticed form ancient forms of meditation? I believe Christ did probably walk this earth and had a mystical experience, which is exactly what the Buddha experienced, except he interpeted his experience through his religion, and Christ through his. Heard of DMT?
Hanahleia 1 year ago
@Hanahleia Your response here is a total cop-out! You've essentially said "well, people that are trying to prove gods exist could never succeed because gods are tricky and don't reveal themselves to people that try to prove they exist. Nah-nah!" If not physical evidence, then what??
THINK about it! You are able to spell and articulate your thoughts well, which suggests that you are one of the intelligent theists. You don't need religion to be successful in life.
FighterDoken 1 year ago
"fiction is generally true-er than non-fiction"
*facepalm*
Zuurkool1 1 year ago 4
LOUD, NOISES!!!!
TheAtomicist42 1 year ago
Human creativity will be lost?
Yeah... because no atheist ever painted a picture, or wrote a song or a book. That's all thanks to religion. Is anyone actually buying that??
KamasutraButterfly 1 year ago 6
@KamasutraButterfly
Haven't you heard? Atheists aren't real people. We're all actually robots assembled in on of Hitler's factories and programmed by Charles Darwin. We don't have any creative capabilities or moral issues as everything is preprogrammed.
psychosavant 1 year ago
I will RAISE MY VOICE because I HAVE NO REAL POINTS.
ProveItBro 1 year ago 2
And now we realize that this priest is either trolling or dumber than a sack of bricks
"fiction is often truer than non-fiction"
Please define truth, because I always thought it was somewhat similar to fact, which fiction is the OPPOSITE of.
No wonder he believes in the bible.
ProveItBro 1 year ago 4
@ProveItBro
It's difficult to pin him down on anything since he gave the cop out from the very beginning that the Bible isn't literal (which inspired a brilliantly simple question about Jebus). Oh and then there's the gem that you can't know the true nature of god, but he personally met Jebus... who smacked him on the road.
VideoMenu 1 year ago
I don't know what the priest is talking about... I don't think he does either...
Gwisss 1 year ago 3
@Gwisss
All he has done his use strawmen. This Priest is BS
ArcyTheFurryArcanine 1 year ago
His preaching at the end is very insulting. I am an atheist and an author of fiction. A believe in god play no part in allowing me to create beauty and to transmit ideas through my writing. The reason fiction often seems to have greater morality than reality is because nobody can put in fiction the complexity of the natural world.
oralyon 1 year ago
Stupid Americunt`s- check Hitchin`s and Dawkin`s for intelligence....................
jjmm112 1 year ago
@jjmm112
Hitchens is an American--and not from sheer dumb luck, but from actively choosing to be one. I suppose he's an Americunt in your book. You're going to say, "But he was born British, he got his brains and education from Britain." But if being American is to be an Americunt, then to choose to BE an Americunt negates the inherent intelligence. Good job.
(Do you stop to think about the absurdities you put out there?)
VideoMenu 1 year ago
@VideoMenu . He retain`s British citizenenship even though he chose to have American citizenship because he disagree`s that the Queen is both the head of state and head of our church (Henry the 8th etc.....- have you a clue what I mean?= it`s history, something American`s lack.....................).
Peace. :)
jjmm112 1 year ago
@jjmm112
"it's history, something American's lack" pretty much sums up the utter lack of rational thought coming from you. On the plus side, at least you used an apostrophy correctly for once.
VideoMenu 1 year ago
@jjmm112
By the way, retaining any sort of British citizenship does not negate the fact that he is an American citizen (by choice), which is something you obviously look down upon from your oddly snobbish nose (on account of your unrefined low-class manner). This is basic common sense.
Have you a clue of common sense?=it's logic, something jjcc112's lack.
(sorry to have to explain such simple concepts to you. it can't be easy needing such hand holding)
VideoMenu 1 year ago
@VideoMenu . "Obviously look down upon" - he can do what he like`s, I couldn`t care less. "Unrefined low class mannner"- that`s a "snobbish" thing to type don`t you think?.
How can a person with no common sense judge if they have it or not? - I thought you were logical. Btw, my username is jjmm112 not jjcc112, "at least you used an apostrophy correctly", shame about the space though ("?=it`s logic"). You missed an apostrophy ("concept`s") and a sentence begin`s with a capital letter.
jjmm112 1 year ago
Matt presents facts. Our good father presents all the emotion he can muster.
Atheism is something new? I have to LOL
pumpstations 1 year ago 2
I love Matt......but I can't watch another minute of this train wreck of a debate....the priest has the intellect of a speed bump...
nudsh 1 year ago 3
Wait, I just realized, is he really saying that music and fiction and art would all go away if religion went away? He admits to going to Borders, so he can't be that ignorant of culture. He's convinced himself of his own madness. I think these people are brainwashed by years of sheepish people eagerly hanging on their every dogmatic word.
VideoMenu 1 year ago
It´s like watching a car crash in slow-motion: the priest talking.
AndresUppsala1 1 year ago 54
@AndresUppsala1 - yes they always self destruct at the end. so predictable.
hmala 1 year ago
@AndresUppsala1 - yes they always self destruct at the end. so predictable. what the heck is a goolag?!
hmala 1 year ago
@AndresUppsala1 He doesn't sound like that to me. In fact, he is sort of the equivalent to a nuclear bomb exploding in slow motion; starting small and ending with a radiation showering, city vaporizing shockwave.
DominateKiller6 1 year ago
Father Whathisface completely bullshitted is way through how Christianity saved us from slavery "left over from Paganism" despite the very cold fact that slavery is in his bible, and he has the balls to warn us that atheism will beget us more concentration camps and the Gulag? Is he on crack? Nazism was supported by his own church and he's going to tell us "read your history"? Does he really believe his own bullshit or is he too used to being followed by gullible sheep and forgot for a second?
VideoMenu 1 year ago
This theist is just not very smart
thesparitan 1 year ago
Christians to the lions!!!!!!!!!!
GoatSkinner666 1 year ago
I like how Matt D. explained what an atheist actually is, a single position on a single claim... and in response, the clergyman starts arguing against his own idea of atheists. He doesn't even acknowledge Matt's point. It's like "Hey dude the debate is with Dillahunty, not the straw men you keep making."
marsjacobvolta 1 year ago 2
@marsjacobvolta Yes and this is an extremely, almost default, common position. I find it monumentally frustrating to have explained what an atheist is and is not, AS an atheist, and then have the theist go "Yes but the dictionary..." It's a very good indicator their position is indefensible and not sound.
newcoyote 1 year ago
I don't understand why they invated an assclown for the theist side and not an educated, accredited theologian, who is able to be part of a discourse?
This father is joke. He's not able to answer one question. He's just preaching.
ahr8p 1 year ago
Teh preest iz a loonitik
VaiRoth 1 year ago
i think the hair styles say it all, one is quite happy to show himself in the real world ,while the other is fighting a battle to try and convince the world that he is something that he isnt hence the comb over ......oh dear!
kevrs2 1 year ago 2
@kevrs2
To be fair, Matt admitted he shaved only because TV make him look balder than what he really was at the time. ;)
VideoMenu 1 year ago
I like how he saves all his crazy until his closing statements.
ISTAYUPLATE 1 year ago
@ISTAYUPLATE
I had a feeling a few vids ago he was playing wolf in sheep's clothing when he started appealing to "guy time over a beer".
VideoMenu 1 year ago
The clarity of Matt's arguments stand in strong contrast to the muddy ramblings of the clergyman. And it is rather irritating that he constantly tries to smear atheists and secularists. In the end he tries to convince people by shouting his superstitions at them. At first I thought he might be a rather nice guy, but his true face is showing through the mask now.
AndreaZ64 1 year ago 3
Did someone say argument from ignorance?
mtillberg 1 year ago
Near the end I had to recheck I didn't accidentally click on a sermon or something.
haloboz 1 year ago
Yes ... it all boils down to Fear .... Religions foundation
ShalloeThought 1 year ago
Fiction= not real...like unicorns and fairys
XDigdug45X 1 year ago 4
Preaching doom and gloom of the evils that atheism will surely bring? Seriously? I thought this was supposed to be a debate. But I guess when you invite a priest you can expect a sermon...
ObakeOnna 1 year ago 4
I think the Father's fear is that atheism will lead to pure, unromanticized rationality, which he sees as the building block of a more sociopathic mindset. He's implying that if we believe that the human brain is "just" molecules, then it's no longer special and respectable (and therefore, people will be more likely to harm one another and less likely to value human life). There is, however, no reason to believe this other than paranoia and projection of his own sociopathic mindset onto others
adean2 1 year ago
So, Was the Crusades an atheist project? Spanish inquisition? Look into them even a little and they were both caused from religious sanctioned individuals. I will not disagree that Atheists have caused bloodshed, but there is no single person in the religious belief system that can argue that Atheists have caused MORE bloodshed than any single religion that follows the Bible or derivations of it.
Axias85 1 year ago
@Axias85
Arab Muslim expansion, Crusades, Inquisition, Ottoman Muslim expansion, Reformation wars, Counter-reformation wars, 19th c. colonialism... Those were several centuries of more or less continuous bloody warfare.
Atheists who caused bloodshed on massive scales were more than just some atheists. They had a positive ideology, too. Ideology of a savior, declaring all the other religions as invalid, just as the Jesus or Muhammad characters did. (Mercilessly killing their enemies...)
Wrath0fKhan 1 year ago 3
@Wrath0fKhan I think you missed my point. True Atheists Have not caused Wars, Look up any of the Wars/Expansions you cited and there is a Religious faction supporting the war. Theists Have caused more wars/bloodshed than any atheist group.
Theist = Someone one who believes in the existence of a god or gods
Atheist = Someone who denies the existence Of a god or gods
I will consent that the 19th c. colonialism was not directly tied to any Religious group, But it was not 100's of years long
Axias85 1 year ago
@Axias85
"I think you missed my point"
I dont think so. All I did was only "expanding" your position.
"true atheists have not caused wars"
Luckily atheism (or Atheism) is not "enough" to cause wars.
"existence"
Something like that.
"colonialism tied to religious groups"
General Christian supremacy and racism was still "flying" strong. The weakening of these ideologies based on science was perhaps delivered by Darwin. Even then there still was potential for "revival" (e.g. Third Reich).
Wrath0fKhan 1 year ago
@Wrath0fKhan OK, Sorry about that. Just not used to seeing anyone agree with another person in comments, and was still caught up on the comment about Hitler being atheist .
Axias85 1 year ago
"Truth comes through reading fiction." Hmmm.
RDog4484 1 ye