there is a protest here every friday (after midday prayers) and ever friday the IDF say: THE PROTESTERS CAN EXPRESS THEIR OPINION BUT DO NOT CROSS THE FENCE OR THROW STONES OVER THE FENCE OR DAMAGE THE FENCE OR THE IDF WILL RETALIATE
the protesters do not listen and do the opposite of what the IDF ask so they are fired with tear gas and skunk cannons (fowl smelling liquid)
What I had been discussing was the similarities between the Palestinian people/Israeli military and the American Indian people/American military of the 1800's. I am both Caucasian and Black Foot American Indian. I told Kreplach2 about this comparison. Kreplach2 is Zionist American. He shammed me for being on the side of the Palestinian people. But I see them as the same as my American Indian ancestry. I am totally for the Palestinian People. More power to Palestine!
what is so terrible in this video?? have you ever seen videos like this about the troops in Iraq and Afghanistan? NO?? why?? because nobody shows it to the world. because in Iraq and Afghanistan there are no "human rights" provocateurs that intentionally organize this "popular" demonstrations.
God! Kreplach2 and Nilguiri, you 2 are achieving nothing argue with each other, you would both have achieved something however small, if both of you conceded something your "side" is doing wrong. The conflict will never end while you both hate each other, if you start talking together for the one cause, you will be helping bring an end to the conflict, if everyone comes together, there will be no more hate and no more conflict. I am trying to do my little bit 2 people at a time. You should too.
@kreplach2 No, because they will instantly hate them again as soon as Israel does anything wrong, even if it is an overeaction, so Israel needs to make sure they are doing nothing wrong first
please try to keep religion out of these internation affairs, i realise it is every present, but it only infuriates people further when you bring religion into it
@tommyrharper57 Muslims think the area is only for Muslims. Thats part of reality.Read about the umma lands concept. read about Muslim supremacy in the area.
I would like hear people say on here what both peoples could do to help the situation rather than what each other are doing wrong. Surely you can see that this is the best way forward
see what i mean, what is this convosation Nilguiri and lugano30 acheiving, both you need to start coming together and thinking what would help both people's. You see yourselfs as on two different sides, you need to be seeing yourselfs as on the middle easts side other wise each peoples will just hate each other more
Tommy, this has been going on for many years, and I imagine that you have a much more open mind than I do (that is a good thing), but as I mentioned, my opinion has been formed over decades of injustices and brutal attacks by the Israelis. The zionists are NOT INTERSTED in peace, and provoke the Palstns at every opportunity. They are "delighted" when Gaza has fired Qassams, because it gives them an excuse to beat the living crap out of ALL of the Gazans: collective punishment..
@Nilguiri your mind has been set and im not gonna change it for you but let me tell you 1 thing, you have to be open minded about what goes on. look around the world n see what goes on in every country. at demonstrations and rallies, innocent people die and get injured - not only in israel, and regarding Palestinians not being the cause of the problem, may i suggest you go for a weekend to gaza or the west bank and then (if u get out alive) come for a weekend to jerusalem and then we will talk
@Nilguiri your mind has been set and im not gonna change it for you but let me tell you 1 thing, you have to be open minded about what goes on. look around the world n see what goes on in every country. at demonstrations and rallies, innocent people die and get injured - not only in israel, and regarding Palestinians not being the cause of the problem, may i suggest you go for a weekend to gaza or the west bank and then (if u get out alive) come for a weekend to jerusalem and then we will talk
I can assure that in Spain at least, people don't get assasinated in protests, peaceful or otherwise. I thnk that holds true for all CIVILIZED countries.
Presumably you think it is OK for a state to enter a foreign country to destroy people's homes, & murder whole families, etc (I won't bother to list all of your warcrimes every time, there is no space here), tell people to go to a "safe" place, so that you can destroy their home, then while they are running under a white flag, to have snipers kill their kids one by one, leaving just the mother alive in order to maximize suffering? You couldn't make this stuff up!
@Nilguiri You have a huge list there of whining unsubstantiated complaints. I cam summarize it better. Hamas aims at innocent people, Israel aims at Hamas. Am I wrong?
@kreplach2 "Hamas aims at innocent people, Israel aims at Hamas." This is one of the major arguments that can almost sway me one side, but Israel needs to cut of all excuses for attacks on Israel, if Israel is doing nothing wrong, which it is, there will be full internations support for them to remove Hamas, though they would have to be very carefull to harm as little civilians as possible which i understand is very hard in such a condensed area.
@kreplach2 As for the death rate, i dont know whether this is true or not, but it does not matter, when people see the dieing children on TV they will not think of this, if Israel wants peace, it needs to make sure there is no justification possible for them to be attacked and or critisized
We decent human beings tend to whine a bit when a rogue state murders innocent civilians. No amount of your lies and propaganda will change the facts. As I have said before, you are the boys who cried wolf. Even if a hundredth of your bullshit UNSUBSTANTIATED claims were true, it is too late. You have lied through you disgusting, fascist teeth so many times that nobody but the yanks and gullible morons believe you, and you have brought it upon yourselves.
@kreplach2 I have just been in contact with my daughter who is an English peace protester in Palestine. She has just found out that the tear gas used in the Bil'in protest was military grade tear gas which it is illegal to use on civilians under international law. Remember also, this illegal act took place on PALESTINE soil.
What the fuck has that got to do with anything. Now if it were the French or the Portiguese army that stole 3/4 of Spanish land, drove into Madrid in tanks, bulldozers, with F16s dropping white phosphorus on the Plaza Mayor at Christmas when it is packed with women and children, then having hidden snipers pick them off one by one as they run for cover screaming waving white flags, ONLY then could you make a fair comparison.
@Nilguiri No stealing. Justr land abandoned by Arabs who waited for 6 Arab Armies to kill the Jews, Oops the Arabs lost and the Arabs never came back.
On the Mavi Marmara, the same thing happened. Unarmed civilians waving a white flag were executed in cold blood.
You people are fucking monsters. No amount of your lies and bullshit propaganda and excuses can justify this. You execute CHILDREN right in front of their parents waving a WHITE FLAG, and don't fucking deny it.
¿And you say that because a separatist terrorist group in Spain has bombed people, just somehow makes it OK?
You need to get some medical help, mate. You are sick.
@Nilguiri Beating Israelis with clubs and rods ia NOT unarmed. No amount of comtrary infomation will enter your brain. Prove children get killed in front of their parents.
...commiting worse/more war crimes is because they have more, power, if the situation was flipped and say Hamas had more power, there would equal crimes commited on Israelies. However this does not justify this actions, what i am saying is that no side is more rightious than the other, I think Hamas need to be gon and Israel need to clean there act up and stop building on the palestinion settlements and in East Jerusalem etc. But Israel are staying until there destruction which is not an option.
No - that is simply not true whichever way you look at it.
The US pay for all of this, by the way - they supply all of the illegal weapons, etc.
They give $3 billion a year in MILITARY aid to Israel which has one of the most modern and powerful military in the world. Do you know how much they give to Palestine? The answer is exactly $0. That is why in the past, they have fired Qassam missiles - liitle more than largish bottle rockets!
@Nilguiri You cant blame the US for this, if it was not for the US, it would just mean Israel would be using worse weapons. I dont think it matters who is throwng the bigger punches, any provocation is going to cause more, aslong as ther any attacks on Israel, there wil be retaliations, no matter how small. Hamas need to be gone, along with any type of attacks on Israel, down to the rock throwing from kids, it needs to be gone, and as i have said, there is huge amount for Israel themselves to do
I agree, It would be better without Hamas, but it was the US who insisted in free and fair elections. Hamas won! They are disgusting in their actions to even their own citizens - persecuting homosexuals, for ex; in this aspect, Israel is much better.
Torture is legal in Israel, btw. They have many nuclear weapons and refuse to sign the Non Proliferation Treaty and won't allow in international inspectors. I am afraid that, backed into a corner, they won't hesitate to use them!
@Nilguiri Totally agree, and they need to be more open about their nuclear wepons, they still havnt oficially admitted they have them! I am sure they would use them, but only in serious threat, this becoming more emminent with Iran most probably soon going to have nuclear wepons, i could all kick off, but hopefuly i think it will take a hell of alot to get them both to use them
You know what? I don't believe you. You are almost certainly lying.
Have you ever heard of the boy who cried wolf? You assholes lot have lied so many times, that even if this were true, why the fuck would we believe you?
You have lost ALL credibility. If you were not in the habit of talking such shit, then it might be believable. As it is you cuold say the sky was blue and I would have to look up to check.
So now you are using the oldest trick in the book, labelling your critics as antisemites... what else is new?
I have nothing against jews you fuckwit. Not decent humane jews, anyway, only the ultra right wing zionist ones, and it has nothing to do with their fucking race or religion. although I do I think that judaism is just as pathetic as islam, christianity, etc. I prefer to believe in empirical evidence, not some bronze age mumbo jumbo, but that's another topic.
@Nilguiri I never said anti-semite. Thats the voices in your head LOL You use excuses about zionists when its obvious you hate all Jews. Of you believe in empirial evidence youd be singing Hava Nagila LOL
Funnily enough, I DO sing Hava Nagila.. I like that song,
But you go ahead and keep calling me an antisemite if it makes you happy.
I have come to expect it - it is a well-known tactic of zionist propaganda; it is so pathetic. But luckily, intelligent people (except for the US christian ultra right wing) now see your bullshit for what it is.
As I said, you have absolutely no interest in facts.
You really are a tiresome moron, and you are starting to repeat yourself.
@kreplach2 You are not getting the point, even if the majority of palestinians and Arabs do not want peace with Israel, if Israel start cleaning their act up, there will be very little argument against them, and all palestian and Arab countries will be forced into a peace agreement, or if they do attack Israel, it will entirely their fault.
@kreplach2 Oh my dear friend kreplach the time has come for the American Indian to take sides on this conflict. The Palestinian's are brothers and sisters of the American Indian people!
Part 1) The similarities between the Palestinian's today and the American Indian's of the 1800's and 1900's are many. People from diverse places in Europe began landing on the shores of America. They forcibly pushed the Indian off his land. They said God gave them this land. In the late 1940's People from diverse places in Europe began landing on the shores of Palestine. They forcibly pushed the Palestinian off his land. They said God gave them this land.
Part 2) As the settlers pushed deeper into the west, they killed the buffalo which was the main food source and resource of the Indian. This was done to weaken and starve out the Indian's.
The Israelis destroy the Palestinian olive groves, also killed sheep, goats and chickens. This is done to weaken and starve out the Palestinian people.
Part 3) January 23, 1870 The US Cavalry launched an offensive battle against the Blackfoot and Piegan Indians in Montana, called the Marias Massacre. The Men were out hunting. The Cavalry killed 173 and captured 140 Woman, Children and the Elderly. The Cavalry released the 140 with out food, water or Horses in the freezing cold. They tried to reach Fort Benton which was 90 miles away but many froze to death trying to reach Fort Benton.
Part 3 cont ) Massacre at Wounded Knee Dec 29, 1890. By this time the Buffalo were gone. The Indian People were prisoners on their own land. Put into area's of land controlled by the Military. Forts were erected with high towers and Gun Men watching the Indians every move. They believed this was the end of life. A Shaman called Wovoka created a new dance (Indian dance was their way of prayer) called the Ghost dance. They wore cloths with images of eagles and buffaloes.
Part 3 cont ) They prayed for peace and to return to a normal life. But the Military saw it as a threat and killed all of the Indians at Wounded Knee. Most were Woman and Children. Dec 19, 2008. Israeli Military in response to resistance from Hamas launched Operation Cast Lead. 1300 civilians were killed, many of them women and children plus over 7000 civilians injured. The infrastructure was destroyed. No running water or sewer. Most homes are in ruin.
Part 3 cont ) The Israeli Military has erected tall walls and towers with Gun men watching the Palestinian's every move. The Palestinian is now a prisoner on his own land.
Part 4 ) Many Indian warriors who had lost their families pulled together and formed small resistance cells. They launched attacks against the US military. One of the finest leaders was Geronimo. He fought against both US and Mexico. He formed a strong resistance network. Sheikh Ahmed Yassin formed the Hamas which is a strong resistance network. Many of there fighters have also lost their families.
Final ) Today the People of America live together in Peace. The American Indian is an equal citizen. This is the real solution. Israel needs to drop its attitude of Jews only all others are dirty people and instead, except all people as equals. Open Jobs to all. Equal rights to all! And do not take land or property away from others.
Funny but during the time of Geronimo, Sitting Bull and other Indian Warriors, White people said their would be no peace as long as they lived. One thing to keep in mind about Israel. The News Media is run by the Military, thus all news from Israel is white washed to fit their agenda!
@emwavemhz Other thing is, Israel have already finished taking land, they are not doing it anymore, well ignoring bulldozing etc. which they need to stop, there needs to be an equal part on the palestinians side to help bring peace too though. Also, in America, when they took over, it was slightly different in the sense they took the whole place, whereas Israel is still surrounded by enemies, so in that sense there needs to be more palestinian work aswell
Yes Israel is finished taking land, whats left? I do agree that Hamas needs to work more toward excepting Israel. However, Israel needs to work more toward excepting the Palestinian people. A very important video on Israel that I believe every one should see is "Israeli Terrorism against America". Youtube: /watch?v=fvItZ2GS88A&playnext_from=TL&videos=IubDdZ9N6_M
@emwavemhz The ratio of deaths 1400 to total population in the areas 410,000 is the lowest death reate in history, This proves The Israelis tried to minimize casualties, 1100 of the dead were Hamas, And Hamas fired from schools, hospitals to increase arab martyrs (human shields) killing Gazans when the IDF returned fire.
@emwavemhz Indians arrived millenia before the whites. 11 years before the Zionists Mark Twain said he barely saw any people in Turkish Lower Syria (Palestine) he saw a few Arabs, Copts armenians and other ethnic groups; very few.
@emwavemhz You dont know history so youre a prisoner of Ignorance. Zionists never pushed Palestinians off, In fact 5 Arab Armies asked the Palestinians to leace so they can slaughter the Jews, Oops they lost. And The Palestinians stayed were they waited, in the Wes Bank and Gaza. Many Arabs came to the Holy Land as emigrants in the 1880's and 1930's and are as new as the Jews.
It is NOT prejudice... Maybe English isn't your first language so I will explain again.
Prejudice means to PRE-judge... I do not pre-judge, I JUDGE based on seeing your actions time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time.
Again... your worn out lies are so tiresome and don't work on intelligent people.
Now, I have better things to do than to waste any more time arguing with you, so
@Nilguiri well that is a very large claim to make about the AIPAC, and i dont think you can really compare Israel's power with Americas, sorry got to go, dinner haha, thanks for talking to me, im sure to come and discuss some more soon, Tom
Even if Obama wanted to bring peace in the middle east (which I'm sure he does) his hands are tied by the enormously strong Israel lobby, AIPAC , which bribes the US gov. Even the slightest criticism of Israel is labelled as antisemitic.
If he cut off all aid to Israel, they might think twice about behaving the way they do.
At the moment, the USA is Israel's "bitch"! They don't dare criticise their "boss", Israel.
Who knows what that cowardly Nazi would have done to that elderly Palestinian lady at 1:58 if he hadn't spotted that somebody was filming him.
His partner in crime also spots him and of course stops him filming. That cameraman was lucky to escape with his life. They have summarily executed hundreds of people for far less.
You are either lying through your teeth, or are unaware of the facts.
Eithert way, YOU are the one talking crap. Tell me ONE THING (or more) I have said that is not true. Actually, I have noticed just one thing I said earlier that was innacurate. I assume you are talking about that... I said that Emily was one of the victims that was executed.. She actually survived her attempted murder. She must consider herself very lucky!
Come on then, smartass! What have I said that is not true?
@Nilguiri well for starters, you say: Who knows what that cowardly Nazi would have done to that elderly Palestinian lady at 1:58 if he hadn't spotted that somebody was filming him.His partner in crime also spots him and of course stops him filming. That cameraman was lucky to escape with his life. They have summarily executed hundreds of people for far less. --- Wots your proof. ur just looking at israeli soldiers with such hatred that ur imagination runs wild as i said earlyer!
@Nilguiri you also said If you Google 'International solidarity movement' , the second topic that comes up is the story of a young American girl who lost an eye and suffered other serious facial injuries when taking part in a peaceful demo. Eye witnesses say that she was deliberately aimed for by the IDF, this was less than 2 weeks ago on PALESTINIAN LAND! where da hell do you get ur facts from.... eye witnessess????wot da hell? u could be the bloody eyewitness for all i know and not bin the
@Nilguiri hey chill out moron!!!! im not denying the fact that their were witnesses. what i meant to ask was, how da hell do u know that israeli soldiers were deliberately aiming at this girl??? and yes she might have slipped on a banana peel whilst running away!!! u never know. chillax my friend. just wanna understand where u get this hatred from. are u denying that the palestinians are not the cause of any problems in palestine/israel???
Yes, I am denying that the Palestinians are the cause of the problems.
Their land was invaded and stolen from them, they were ETHNICALLY CLEANSED (yes, that's right). The problem is caused by Israel.
They fired several gas cannisters DIRECTLY at her, I don't know how many. If it had been the first time this had happened, you might give the benefit of doubt to the IDF, but many peaceful foreign protesters have been assinated, and the IDF have a LONG record of doing just that.
@Nilguiri If you believe your myths youll never have peace. You cry over the lans your grandfather gave up flling because Arab Radio or the 5 Arab leaders told them to. But shame has created Isreali massacres to create the brave Arab Palestinian.
The israeli DESTRUCTIVE forces, once more engaging in coward attacks to unarmed people. They murderers are afraid the them, of the truth. FREE GAZA, STOP ISRAELI APARTHEID!
...both sides and openly discuss it rather than shouting insults and hate messages at each other. As i have a completely open mind to these issues please try and convince me either way but i feel that there needs to be a coming together, you talk of "muslims and christians joining together" or "jews and christians" together or against each other, but really you all need to work together. Please reply to me i would like to hear what you have to say on different issues and have an open discussion.
You make a powerful point, however, there is a big difference between bias and having a strong opinion based on empirical evidence. Prejudice means to PRE-judge. Personally, I am JUDGIING. Having seen Israel behave in this way thousands of times, it's obvious that ultra right-wing zionists (nothing to do with "jews") have absolutely no desire for dialogue. They have stolen Palestinian land and seem to delight in tormenting & humiliating them time and time again.
@Nilguiri Hi, I agree with you about bais and having a strong opinion etc., but i think what you need to concede is that Israel will not leave palestine until they are destroyed, and i think ethically, this is not an option. On this basis, while Hamas vow to the distruction of Israel, it is hard to see an end to this. This means while Israel are there, there will be fighting, and aslong as there is fighting there will be war crimes on both sides, i think the only reason Israel appear to be ...
So the obvious solution then, according to your own words, is for Israel to get the hell out of Palestine.
I am certainly no fan of Hamas - I think they are violent bigots, and deluded morons because they too believe in an imaginary friend - but they were the democratically elected government if Gaza and have a duty to defend their citizens. However their violent acts of the past pale into insignificance compared to the atrocities commited by the zionist government of Israel.
@Nilguiri Well yes, of course the problem would go if you got rid of Israel, but that still doesnt make it the right thing to do, there are ordinary citizens there who are inocent as anyone, and as for Hamas being democraticaly elected, there is alot of evidence they cheated, obviously i dont know this, I just think there needs to be concesions on both sides.
I am not saying "get rid" of Israel, just that that they fuck off out of their neighbour's country!
Of course there are innocent Israelis... I am talking about their ulta right wing racist government and the IDF. Have you seen the treatment the decent people on the left get in the Knesset when they try to reason with these ppl? They get accused of being terrorists and shouted down without being allowed to speak.
What concessions do you think the Palestinians should make?
@Nilguiri I could make a list equally as long about what all the palestinions are doing wrong, it doesnt help, i dont believe the Israeli governement is ultra right wing or racist, there are people in it that are, but the only way they will be gone is if there is no longer a conflct, and to do this, as i have said, there needs to be work on both sides
"I dont believe the Israeli governement is ultra right wing or racist"
I am sorry, Tommy - you are just plain wrong. There has been plenty of work on both sides, and the Israelis have broken cease-fires again and again and again!
And no, you could not make a list equally long of what the Palestinians have done wrong... assuming you don't get your info from the US media or by listening to Israeli proaganda and lies - which they do a lot better than the Palestinians.
@Nilguiri Both sides have huge amounts of propoganda, and maybe not in america is there so much anti-Israeli propaganda, but certainly in europe i would say there is considerably more anti-Israeli propaganda, I would say the palestinians are incredibly good at making it. Especially Hamas who seem to rather put there own civilians at risk to make Israel look bad. And dont take that the wrong way, Israel do terrible things everyday, just making the point.
@Nilguiri As for the video you sent me, it shows how strong peoples views are and how hard they will be to change, but you often see such action in parliaments around the world, even here in Britain which is supposed to be one of the if not the most democratic and liberal places in the world
They were calling her a terrorist!! She is an MK!!! (Member of the Knesset - like an MP) They accused her of carrying a knife!! Even Cameron and Clegg don't do that! hahaha!
Not to mention the atrocities that they have commited against them. They assasinate Palestinians almost on a daily basis. They commited countless war crimes in their brutal invasion of Gaza 18 months ago. They murdered women and CHILDREN waving white flags & running away, they use human shields, they use illegal weapons, then they lie to cover up their crimes and are unwilling to hold any independant investigations of their crimes. Critics are immediately branded antisemites.
They don't allow people to protest peacefully, often blatently targetting foreign demonstrators. Read about Rachel Corrie and Emily Henochowicz, to name just 2 horrific examples of their brutal response to peacful protesters. They deny they have caused a humanitarian crisis in Gaza and refuse entry to all but the most basic of foodstuffs. Many people died as a result of being denied basic medical treatment. On the Mavi Marmara, they also denied medical care to their victims.
@Nilguiri "to name just 2". can you name 5? i doubt it. Do you think it would be hard for me to find 5 people in each arab country that have been killed by the local government? by 5 i meant 50, and maybe even 500
@Nilguiri George Rishmawi of the ISM told the San Francisco Chronicle that: "When Palestinians get shot by Israeli soldiers, no one is interested anymore. But if some of these foreign volunteers get shot or even killed, then the international media will sit up and take notice."[36]
Well George Richmawi is wrong about the murdered Palestinians, but I guess he was right about at least some of the foreigners that were assasinated by the IDF. But of course, you wouldn't know, because the US media broadcasts from so far up Netanyahu's ass that I don't blame you for being clueless.
The IDF could execute 10,000 US citizens in Times Square and the media would call the victims terrorists and Obama would reimburse the Israelis for the ammunition and give them a 20% tip.
@Nilguiri If you go where bullets are flying and youre a naive student you better not walk around quizzicly. Did the us media go on the Israel or flotilla side?
Ah I see... So the IDF were randomly firing bullets around in an empty area of another country, and the naïve, peaceful protesters got together and decided to stand exactly where they happened to be shooting and tried to headbutt the bullets away as a part of their protest, right? How dare they interfere with IDF soldiers who were just passing the time, having fun shooting at nothing?
Why were they shooting if there was nobody there, though? I don't quite understand that bit.
@Nilguiri Palestinians often use demonstrations as cover for shooting, They dont care if fellow Palestinans or naive bleeding heart liberals get shot, its martyrs for the cause. And so the bullets fly
So, first you say I couldn't name 5 people who were executed by the IDF in broad daylight, and when I name 6, you change your story and start inventing excuses, in this case "it was their own fault" for going to "where bullets are flying"
mmmm, That sounds sickeningly familiar, where have I heard that before?
Just about every time you ultra right-wing thugs open your mouth, that's when.
Do you Israeli's have a special word for that kind of "logic"? I certainly do!
Pretty much, yes. Because the US media's job is to repeat Israeli propaganda. Nothing more, nothing less.
They seem to believe the highly edited 1 minute of video that you have released for propaganda purposes and covered up all the rest.
However, even they are starting to get suspicious as one lie after another has been proved to be just that. Even your lot have admitted that "Go back to Auschwitz" fiasco was a fabrication.
Well I am a 12 year old boy from britain with christian parents, but i think i am an atheist. As being completely openminded to the situation in the middle east i find that most of the comments here are completely closed minded and biast. I mean there are comments such as ''You are so going down Israel!". The problem will never end if either 'side' as it were cannot form an open view. Both peoples have and are doing wrong but if any of you would want this to end you would see the problems on ...
@kreplach2 yes of course, but it has to work both ways, Israelies need to see Arabs as equals and neighbors too, i think a major part of the problem is that both the palestinians and Israelis need to accept that they are neighbors and are stuck together, alot of people still want one or the other to be wiped out which is, well just not going to happen with out more death which no one wants.
@tommyrharper57 Israel were ready to accept Arabs as equals and neighbors in 1920. Bit Arabs stabbed them in the street. in 1948 but Arabs sent in 5 Arab Armies to kill the Jews In 2000 but Jews started the 2nd intifada and stopped Oslo.
@kreplach2 Yes, all this is true, though whether all Israelies are ready to accept Palestinians as their neighbours is debatable, but Israel still needs to do many things, such as stopp building in East Jerusalem, though you can argue they have the right to do it, it is still just making the situation worse and these such things need to be stopped
@kreplach2 And east Jerusalem may not be a settlement, the housing may be illegal, but if Israel wants good press, then it will have to ignore this and let them be, though i understand how difficult this is when a palestinian goes and stabs an Israeli, if Israel does nothing wrong, there will be no justification for their actions
I don't think I've ever hated anybody before... I thought I hated Cheney, Rumsfeld and Bush, but that pales by comparison of what I now feel towards these scumbags.
It must take a lot of self control to protest non-violently against these inhuman monsters.
I don't need to back up "my story" as you call it. If you don't know the facts, then I suggest that you do a bit of research before telling me to "shut the mouth".
@Nilguiri To everyone who has commented. My daughter was on that protest march. It was worse than it looked in the video. She suffered the effects of the tear gas. The driver of the car dressed as a ship was arrested,
This is the third march she has been on , 1st march they were stopped by IDF pushing them back with rifles, 2nd march they were stopped by Palestinian troops who had been told that anyone approaching the wall would be shot. 3rd march on video. ALL THESE TOOK PLACE IN PALESTINE!!
It is absolutely incredible how these monsters are able to enter another country and intimidate and murder their citizens on what little is left of their own land, not just with impunity, but with the blessing of their client, the USA.
If the US media told the truth once in a while, it might go some way to preventing Israeli state terrorism. Obama could stop this overnight, but rather chooses to support and fund a rogue state in terrorism.
@Nilguiri If you Google 'International solidarity movement' , the second topic that comes up is the story of a young American girl who lost an eye and suffered other serious facial injuries when taking part in a peaceful demo. Eye witnesses say that she was deliberately aimed for by the IDF, this was less than 2 weeks ago on PALESTINIAN LAND!
Yes, that was Emily Henochowicz whom I mentioned in one of my previous posts.
Evidently they fired several gas cannisters at her and missed before finally hitting their target. It pretty much destroyed all of the bones on one side of her face as well as destroying her eye.
The USA don't seem to give a crap about her or the other young lad who was summarily executed on the Mavi Marmara.
They give them 100% unconditional support. It makes me feel sick just to think of it.
there is a protest here every friday (after midday prayers) and ever friday the IDF say: THE PROTESTERS CAN EXPRESS THEIR OPINION BUT DO NOT CROSS THE FENCE OR THROW STONES OVER THE FENCE OR DAMAGE THE FENCE OR THE IDF WILL RETALIATE
the protesters do not listen and do the opposite of what the IDF ask so they are fired with tear gas and skunk cannons (fowl smelling liquid)
777Boin 2 months ago
Fuck Israel. God damn genocidal maniacs.
happilea 8 months ago
Palestinian's ass holes, never cross the israeli land .
susromf5 8 months ago
TERRORIST ISRAELI.
WEST ASIA= ASIAN ARABS.
ISRAEL- THIVDOM
ISRAEL= NON NATIVES NON ASIANS.
I
TheBENGALHANNIBAL 1 year ago
צריך לזיין לערבושים האלה את הצורה באש חייה רק ככה הם יבינו. הגיע הזמן לתת תצה"ל לנצח
zorgi1000 1 year ago
@zorgi1000
השינוי מגיע לכל הדברים. אתה יכול לצחוק על חלק מהאנשים חלק מהזמן אבל אי אפשר לרמות את כל האנשים כל הזמן. תראו את השינוי מגיע!
emwavemhz 1 year ago
chec k out my video azeri protest against israel on gaza flotilla
Azerimax 1 year ago
What I had been discussing was the similarities between the Palestinian people/Israeli military and the American Indian people/American military of the 1800's. I am both Caucasian and Black Foot American Indian. I told Kreplach2 about this comparison. Kreplach2 is Zionist American. He shammed me for being on the side of the Palestinian people. But I see them as the same as my American Indian ancestry. I am totally for the Palestinian People. More power to Palestine!
emwavemhz 1 year ago
@emwavemhz
This discussion goes back many pages!
emwavemhz 1 year ago
what is so terrible in this video?? have you ever seen videos like this about the troops in Iraq and Afghanistan? NO?? why?? because nobody shows it to the world. because in Iraq and Afghanistan there are no "human rights" provocateurs that intentionally organize this "popular" demonstrations.
grpavel 1 year ago
dont protest and you wont die in other words fuck off right?
DjMasquerade 1 year ago
all israelis should be executed imho
JisakuJ 1 year ago
@JisakuJ thats a disgusting thing to say you should be ashamed
tommyrharper57 1 year ago
DTI
Track14 1 year ago 2
God! Kreplach2 and Nilguiri, you 2 are achieving nothing argue with each other, you would both have achieved something however small, if both of you conceded something your "side" is doing wrong. The conflict will never end while you both hate each other, if you start talking together for the one cause, you will be helping bring an end to the conflict, if everyone comes together, there will be no more hate and no more conflict. I am trying to do my little bit 2 people at a time. You should too.
tommyrharper57 1 year ago
@tommyrharper57 When Arabs accept Jews as equals and neighbors iNSTANTLY there will be peace.
kreplach2 1 year ago
@kreplach2 No, because they will instantly hate them again as soon as Israel does anything wrong, even if it is an overeaction, so Israel needs to make sure they are doing nothing wrong first
tommyrharper57 1 year ago
g2g, speak tomorrow :)
tommyrharper57 1 year ago
please try to keep religion out of these internation affairs, i realise it is every present, but it only infuriates people further when you bring religion into it
tommyrharper57 1 year ago
@tommyrharper57 Muslims think the area is only for Muslims. Thats part of reality.Read about the umma lands concept. read about Muslim supremacy in the area.
kreplach2 1 year ago
@kreplach2 Yes of the course some Muslims want to wipe out Israel, but i think the majority of them would just want or just setlle for peace.
tommyrharper57 1 year ago
@tommyrharper57 No. you poll Arab countries there is a small pct. that want peace but something like 60-90% want Jews out.
kreplach2 1 year ago
I would like hear people say on here what both peoples could do to help the situation rather than what each other are doing wrong. Surely you can see that this is the best way forward
tommyrharper57 1 year ago
see what i mean, what is this convosation Nilguiri and lugano30 acheiving, both you need to start coming together and thinking what would help both people's. You see yourselfs as on two different sides, you need to be seeing yourselfs as on the middle easts side other wise each peoples will just hate each other more
tommyrharper57 1 year ago
@tommyrharper57
Tommy, this has been going on for many years, and I imagine that you have a much more open mind than I do (that is a good thing), but as I mentioned, my opinion has been formed over decades of injustices and brutal attacks by the Israelis. The zionists are NOT INTERSTED in peace, and provoke the Palstns at every opportunity. They are "delighted" when Gaza has fired Qassams, because it gives them an excuse to beat the living crap out of ALL of the Gazans: collective punishment..
Nilguiri 1 year ago
@Nilguiri your mind has been set and im not gonna change it for you but let me tell you 1 thing, you have to be open minded about what goes on. look around the world n see what goes on in every country. at demonstrations and rallies, innocent people die and get injured - not only in israel, and regarding Palestinians not being the cause of the problem, may i suggest you go for a weekend to gaza or the west bank and then (if u get out alive) come for a weekend to jerusalem and then we will talk
lugano30 1 year ago
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@Nilguiri your mind has been set and im not gonna change it for you but let me tell you 1 thing, you have to be open minded about what goes on. look around the world n see what goes on in every country. at demonstrations and rallies, innocent people die and get injured - not only in israel, and regarding Palestinians not being the cause of the problem, may i suggest you go for a weekend to gaza or the west bank and then (if u get out alive) come for a weekend to jerusalem and then we will talk
lugano30 1 year ago
@lugano30
I can assure that in Spain at least, people don't get assasinated in protests, peaceful or otherwise. I thnk that holds true for all CIVILIZED countries.
Nilguiri 1 year ago
@Nilguiri No gunmen use it as cover in Spain
kreplach2 1 year ago
@kreplach2
We don't need to use white flags in Spain.
Nilguiri 1 year ago
@Nilguiri No what do Basques use???
kreplach2 1 year ago
@kreplach2
bombs, mainly.
Nilguiri 1 year ago
@Nilguiri No white flags.
kreplach2 1 year ago
@kreplach2
what is your point?
Presumably you think it is OK for a state to enter a foreign country to destroy people's homes, & murder whole families, etc (I won't bother to list all of your warcrimes every time, there is no space here), tell people to go to a "safe" place, so that you can destroy their home, then while they are running under a white flag, to have snipers kill their kids one by one, leaving just the mother alive in order to maximize suffering? You couldn't make this stuff up!
Nilguiri 1 year ago
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Nilguiri 1 year ago
@Nilguiri You have a huge list there of whining unsubstantiated complaints. I cam summarize it better. Hamas aims at innocent people, Israel aims at Hamas. Am I wrong?
kreplach2 1 year ago
@kreplach2 "Hamas aims at innocent people, Israel aims at Hamas." This is one of the major arguments that can almost sway me one side, but Israel needs to cut of all excuses for attacks on Israel, if Israel is doing nothing wrong, which it is, there will be full internations support for them to remove Hamas, though they would have to be very carefull to harm as little civilians as possible which i understand is very hard in such a condensed area.
tommyrharper57 1 year ago
@tommyrharper57 Israel justfies it, Even the Gaza war hjd the lowest death rate to prpportion tototal population in many a year
kreplach2 1 year ago
@kreplach2 As for the death rate, i dont know whether this is true or not, but it does not matter, when people see the dieing children on TV they will not think of this, if Israel wants peace, it needs to make sure there is no justification possible for them to be attacked and or critisized
tommyrharper57 1 year ago
@tommyrharper57 Its true Read Richard Kemp and Gaza.
Is Gaza starving? Look at the photos and decide for yourself arizona(dot)indymedia(dot)org(slash) news(slash)2009(slash)11(slash)75480(dot)php
kreplach2 1 year ago
@kreplach2
We decent human beings tend to whine a bit when a rogue state murders innocent civilians. No amount of your lies and propaganda will change the facts. As I have said before, you are the boys who cried wolf. Even if a hundredth of your bullshit UNSUBSTANTIATED claims were true, it is too late. You have lied through you disgusting, fascist teeth so many times that nobody but the yanks and gullible morons believe you, and you have brought it upon yourselves.
Nilguiri 1 year ago
@Nilguir Your denial of plain facts is apparent, Hamas is the rogue state,
Palestinians Pallywood is crying wolf brought to a higher art. Rou can dismiss me and call me names all you want, it AINT changing the facts.
kreplach2 1 year ago
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@kreplach2
Your denial of plain facts is apparent, Israel is the rogue state.
Israeli propaganda is crying wolf brought to a higher art.
It AIN'T changing the facts.
Nilguiri 1 year ago
@kreplach2 I have just been in contact with my daughter who is an English peace protester in Palestine. She has just found out that the tear gas used in the Bil'in protest was military grade tear gas which it is illegal to use on civilians under international law. Remember also, this illegal act took place on PALESTINE soil.
60brummie 1 year ago 2
@60brummie No it was in international waters. And asl your daughter for a confirmation.
kreplach2 1 year ago
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Nilguiri 1 year ago
@kreplach2
What the fuck has that got to do with anything. Now if it were the French or the Portiguese army that stole 3/4 of Spanish land, drove into Madrid in tanks, bulldozers, with F16s dropping white phosphorus on the Plaza Mayor at Christmas when it is packed with women and children, then having hidden snipers pick them off one by one as they run for cover screaming waving white flags, ONLY then could you make a fair comparison.
Do you see the difference?
I doubt it!
Nilguiri 1 year ago
@Nilguiri No stealing. Justr land abandoned by Arabs who waited for 6 Arab Armies to kill the Jews, Oops the Arabs lost and the Arabs never came back.
kreplach2 1 year ago
@kreplach2
On the Mavi Marmara, the same thing happened. Unarmed civilians waving a white flag were executed in cold blood.
You people are fucking monsters. No amount of your lies and bullshit propaganda and excuses can justify this. You execute CHILDREN right in front of their parents waving a WHITE FLAG, and don't fucking deny it.
¿And you say that because a separatist terrorist group in Spain has bombed people, just somehow makes it OK?
You need to get some medical help, mate. You are sick.
Nilguiri 1 year ago
@Nilguiri Beating Israelis with clubs and rods ia NOT unarmed. No amount of comtrary infomation will enter your brain. Prove children get killed in front of their parents.
kreplach2 1 year ago
@Nilguiri Yeah the Israelis are delighted to have their citizens shot at by Gazans.
Thats one example of nonsense
kreplach2 1 year ago
@kreplach2
that's why I used inverted commas - "delighted" .
Nilguiri 1 year ago
...commiting worse/more war crimes is because they have more, power, if the situation was flipped and say Hamas had more power, there would equal crimes commited on Israelies. However this does not justify this actions, what i am saying is that no side is more rightious than the other, I think Hamas need to be gon and Israel need to clean there act up and stop building on the palestinion settlements and in East Jerusalem etc. But Israel are staying until there destruction which is not an option.
tommyrharper57 1 year ago
@tommyrharper57
"no side is more rightious than the other"
No - that is simply not true whichever way you look at it.
The US pay for all of this, by the way - they supply all of the illegal weapons, etc.
They give $3 billion a year in MILITARY aid to Israel which has one of the most modern and powerful military in the world. Do you know how much they give to Palestine? The answer is exactly $0. That is why in the past, they have fired Qassam missiles - liitle more than largish bottle rockets!
Nilguiri 1 year ago
@Nilguiri You cant blame the US for this, if it was not for the US, it would just mean Israel would be using worse weapons. I dont think it matters who is throwng the bigger punches, any provocation is going to cause more, aslong as ther any attacks on Israel, there wil be retaliations, no matter how small. Hamas need to be gone, along with any type of attacks on Israel, down to the rock throwing from kids, it needs to be gone, and as i have said, there is huge amount for Israel themselves to do
tommyrharper57 1 year ago
@tommyrharper57
I agree, It would be better without Hamas, but it was the US who insisted in free and fair elections. Hamas won! They are disgusting in their actions to even their own citizens - persecuting homosexuals, for ex; in this aspect, Israel is much better.
Torture is legal in Israel, btw. They have many nuclear weapons and refuse to sign the Non Proliferation Treaty and won't allow in international inspectors. I am afraid that, backed into a corner, they won't hesitate to use them!
Nilguiri 1 year ago
@Nilguiri Totally agree, and they need to be more open about their nuclear wepons, they still havnt oficially admitted they have them! I am sure they would use them, but only in serious threat, this becoming more emminent with Iran most probably soon going to have nuclear wepons, i could all kick off, but hopefuly i think it will take a hell of alot to get them both to use them
tommyrharper57 1 year ago
@Nilguiri So dont back Israel into a corner. Simple
kreplach2 1 year ago
@kreplach2
But you can back Palestinians into a corner, and when they get their white flags out, it is a perfect opportunity to murder them, right?
No double standard there at all then?
Nilguiri 1 year ago
@Nilguiri A typical militant drapes white flags over guns and then prays for paradise entry.
kreplach2 1 year ago
@kreplach2
You know what? I don't believe you. You are almost certainly lying.
Have you ever heard of the boy who cried wolf? You assholes lot have lied so many times, that even if this were true, why the fuck would we believe you?
You have lost ALL credibility. If you were not in the habit of talking such shit, then it might be believable. As it is you cuold say the sky was blue and I would have to look up to check.
Nilguiri 1 year ago
@Nilguiri I certainly don't expect you to believe a Jew! Youre trained all your life to ignore Jews words.
kreplach2 1 year ago
@kreplach2
A JEW??
So now you are using the oldest trick in the book, labelling your critics as antisemites... what else is new?
I have nothing against jews you fuckwit. Not decent humane jews, anyway, only the ultra right wing zionist ones, and it has nothing to do with their fucking race or religion. although I do I think that judaism is just as pathetic as islam, christianity, etc. I prefer to believe in empirical evidence, not some bronze age mumbo jumbo, but that's another topic.
Nilguiri 1 year ago
@Nilguiri I never said anti-semite. Thats the voices in your head LOL You use excuses about zionists when its obvious you hate all Jews. Of you believe in empirial evidence youd be singing Hava Nagila LOL
kreplach2 1 year ago
@kreplach2
Funnily enough, I DO sing Hava Nagila.. I like that song,
But you go ahead and keep calling me an antisemite if it makes you happy.
I have come to expect it - it is a well-known tactic of zionist propaganda; it is so pathetic. But luckily, intelligent people (except for the US christian ultra right wing) now see your bullshit for what it is.
As I said, you have absolutely no interest in facts.
You really are a tiresome moron, and you are starting to repeat yourself.
Googbye.
Nilguiri 1 year ago
@Nilguiri Never called you an antisemite. Youre deluded. Anyone can see you are nithing to defend, Just hot air.
kreplach2 1 year ago
@kreplach2
No, you did not actually use the word antisemite, you just said "I hate all Jews" and I have "been trained all my life to ignore Jews words."
i.e. more lies and propaganda...
Now, give a fucking rest, OK?
Nilguiri 1 year ago
@Nilguiri Its obvious youre been trained since childhood
kreplach2 1 year ago
@kreplach2 You are not getting the point, even if the majority of palestinians and Arabs do not want peace with Israel, if Israel start cleaning their act up, there will be very little argument against them, and all palestian and Arab countries will be forced into a peace agreement, or if they do attack Israel, it will entirely their fault.
tommyrharper57 1 year ago
@kreplach2 Hoy Ya hoı ya
emwavemhz 1 year ago
@kreplach2 Oh my dear friend kreplach the time has come for the American Indian to take sides on this conflict. The Palestinian's are brothers and sisters of the American Indian people!
emwavemhz 1 year ago
@emwavemhz No they arent, Many Native Americans equate Arab oppression with white oppression.
kreplach2 1 year ago
@kreplach2
You people lie to the American Population!
emwavemhz 1 year ago
@emwavemhz Racists and bigots like to say YOU people.
kreplach2 1 year ago
@kreplach2 Arab oppression?
Part 1) The similarities between the Palestinian's today and the American Indian's of the 1800's and 1900's are many. People from diverse places in Europe began landing on the shores of America. They forcibly pushed the Indian off his land. They said God gave them this land. In the late 1940's People from diverse places in Europe began landing on the shores of Palestine. They forcibly pushed the Palestinian off his land. They said God gave them this land.
emwavemhz 1 year ago
@emwavemhz
Part 2) As the settlers pushed deeper into the west, they killed the buffalo which was the main food source and resource of the Indian. This was done to weaken and starve out the Indian's.
The Israelis destroy the Palestinian olive groves, also killed sheep, goats and chickens. This is done to weaken and starve out the Palestinian people.
emwavemhz 1 year ago
@emwavemhz
Part 3) January 23, 1870 The US Cavalry launched an offensive battle against the Blackfoot and Piegan Indians in Montana, called the Marias Massacre. The Men were out hunting. The Cavalry killed 173 and captured 140 Woman, Children and the Elderly. The Cavalry released the 140 with out food, water or Horses in the freezing cold. They tried to reach Fort Benton which was 90 miles away but many froze to death trying to reach Fort Benton.
emwavemhz 1 year ago
@emwavemhz
Part 3 cont ) Massacre at Wounded Knee Dec 29, 1890. By this time the Buffalo were gone. The Indian People were prisoners on their own land. Put into area's of land controlled by the Military. Forts were erected with high towers and Gun Men watching the Indians every move. They believed this was the end of life. A Shaman called Wovoka created a new dance (Indian dance was their way of prayer) called the Ghost dance. They wore cloths with images of eagles and buffaloes.
emwavemhz 1 year ago
@emwavemhz
Part 3 cont ) They prayed for peace and to return to a normal life. But the Military saw it as a threat and killed all of the Indians at Wounded Knee. Most were Woman and Children. Dec 19, 2008. Israeli Military in response to resistance from Hamas launched Operation Cast Lead. 1300 civilians were killed, many of them women and children plus over 7000 civilians injured. The infrastructure was destroyed. No running water or sewer. Most homes are in ruin.
emwavemhz 1 year ago
@emwavemhz
Part 3 cont ) The Israeli Military has erected tall walls and towers with Gun men watching the Palestinian's every move. The Palestinian is now a prisoner on his own land.
emwavemhz 1 year ago
@emwavemhz
Part 4 ) Many Indian warriors who had lost their families pulled together and formed small resistance cells. They launched attacks against the US military. One of the finest leaders was Geronimo. He fought against both US and Mexico. He formed a strong resistance network. Sheikh Ahmed Yassin formed the Hamas which is a strong resistance network. Many of there fighters have also lost their families.
emwavemhz 1 year ago
@emwavemhz
Final ) Today the People of America live together in Peace. The American Indian is an equal citizen. This is the real solution. Israel needs to drop its attitude of Jews only all others are dirty people and instead, except all people as equals. Open Jobs to all. Equal rights to all! And do not take land or property away from others.
emwavemhz 1 year ago
@emwavemhz surely though, as long as there is Hamas, there can be no peace, you pose a very good argument, but it does not fit all the angles
tommyrharper57 1 year ago
@tommyrharper57
Funny but during the time of Geronimo, Sitting Bull and other Indian Warriors, White people said their would be no peace as long as they lived. One thing to keep in mind about Israel. The News Media is run by the Military, thus all news from Israel is white washed to fit their agenda!
emwavemhz 1 year ago
@emwavemhz Other thing is, Israel have already finished taking land, they are not doing it anymore, well ignoring bulldozing etc. which they need to stop, there needs to be an equal part on the palestinians side to help bring peace too though. Also, in America, when they took over, it was slightly different in the sense they took the whole place, whereas Israel is still surrounded by enemies, so in that sense there needs to be more palestinian work aswell
tommyrharper57 1 year ago
@tommyrharper57
Yes Israel is finished taking land, whats left? I do agree that Hamas needs to work more toward excepting Israel. However, Israel needs to work more toward excepting the Palestinian people. A very important video on Israel that I believe every one should see is "Israeli Terrorism against America". Youtube: /watch?v=fvItZ2GS88A&playnext_from=TL&videos=IubDdZ9N6_M
emwavemhz 1 year ago
@emwavemhz Right. And what Israel did in 1994 and 2000 was?......
TacticalSniper 1 year ago
@emwavemhz The Wall has ended Israelis being blown to bits by Palestinian suicide bombers, You forget so soon.
kreplach2 1 year ago
@emwavemhz The ratio of deaths 1400 to total population in the areas 410,000 is the lowest death reate in history, This proves The Israelis tried to minimize casualties, 1100 of the dead were Hamas, And Hamas fired from schools, hospitals to increase arab martyrs (human shields) killing Gazans when the IDF returned fire.
kreplach2 1 year ago
@emwavemhz Indians arrived millenia before the whites. 11 years before the Zionists Mark Twain said he barely saw any people in Turkish Lower Syria (Palestine) he saw a few Arabs, Copts armenians and other ethnic groups; very few.
kreplach2 1 year ago
@emwavemhz Israelis leave the olive groves unless theyre in the way of the wall. The wall that ended suicide bombing and the 2nd intifada
kreplach2 1 year ago
@emwavemhz You dont know history so youre a prisoner of Ignorance. Zionists never pushed Palestinians off, In fact 5 Arab Armies asked the Palestinians to leace so they can slaughter the Jews, Oops they lost. And The Palestinians stayed were they waited, in the Wes Bank and Gaza. Many Arabs came to the Holy Land as emigrants in the 1880's and 1930's and are as new as the Jews.
kreplach2 1 year ago
@kreplach2
I have not been "trained to ignore jews" who the fuck do you think you are?!
Don't forget, YOU are the racist scum... not me.
I can assure you will not find ONE WORD of racism in any of my comments, but then again, when have the facts mattered to you lot?
Nilguiri 1 year ago
@Nilguiri Ah you hasve the terrible bias here nOT I. I find incredible prejudice,
kreplach2 1 year ago
@kreplach2
It is NOT prejudice... Maybe English isn't your first language so I will explain again.
Prejudice means to PRE-judge... I do not pre-judge, I JUDGE based on seeing your actions time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time after time.
Again... your worn out lies are so tiresome and don't work on intelligent people.
Now, I have better things to do than to waste any more time arguing with you, so
adios.
Nilguiri 1 year ago
@Nilguiri Oh YES you pre-judge ALL over the place. Please leave youve made no ompact.
kreplach2 1 year ago
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Nilguiri 1 year ago
@Nilguiri well that is a very large claim to make about the AIPAC, and i dont think you can really compare Israel's power with Americas, sorry got to go, dinner haha, thanks for talking to me, im sure to come and discuss some more soon, Tom
tommyrharper57 1 year ago
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Nilguiri 1 year ago
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@tommyrharper57
Even if Obama wanted to bring peace in the middle east (which I'm sure he does) his hands are tied by the enormously strong Israel lobby, AIPAC , which bribes the US gov. Even the slightest criticism of Israel is labelled as antisemitic.
If he cut off all aid to Israel, they might think twice about behaving the way they do.
At the moment, the USA is Israel's "bitch"! They don't dare criticise their "boss", Israel.
Nilguiri 1 year ago
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Nilguiri 1 year ago
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Nilguiri 1 year ago
Who knows what that cowardly Nazi would have done to that elderly Palestinian lady at 1:58 if he hadn't spotted that somebody was filming him.
His partner in crime also spots him and of course stops him filming. That cameraman was lucky to escape with his life. They have summarily executed hundreds of people for far less.
Nilguiri 1 year ago
@Nilguiri do u enjoy talking crap? ur imagination does run wild doesnt it? get the facts straight
lugano30 1 year ago
@lugano30
You are either lying through your teeth, or are unaware of the facts.
Eithert way, YOU are the one talking crap. Tell me ONE THING (or more) I have said that is not true. Actually, I have noticed just one thing I said earlier that was innacurate. I assume you are talking about that... I said that Emily was one of the victims that was executed.. She actually survived her attempted murder. She must consider herself very lucky!
Come on then, smartass! What have I said that is not true?
Nilguiri 1 year ago
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@Nilguiri well for starters, you say: Who knows what that cowardly Nazi would have done to that elderly Palestinian lady at 1:58 if he hadn't spotted that somebody was filming him.His partner in crime also spots him and of course stops him filming. That cameraman was lucky to escape with his life. They have summarily executed hundreds of people for far less. --- Wots your proof. ur just looking at israeli soldiers with such hatred that ur imagination runs wild as i said earlyer!
lugano30 1 year ago
@Nilguiri you also said If you Google 'International solidarity movement' , the second topic that comes up is the story of a young American girl who lost an eye and suffered other serious facial injuries when taking part in a peaceful demo. Eye witnesses say that she was deliberately aimed for by the IDF, this was less than 2 weeks ago on PALESTINIAN LAND! where da hell do you get ur facts from.... eye witnessess????wot da hell? u could be the bloody eyewitness for all i know and not bin the
lugano30 1 year ago
@lugano30
Nice try, but no cigar.
Actually, if you had taken the time to read that comment properly, you might have noticed that it was not me who said that.
But of course there were fucking eye witnesses! What the hell are you talking about? It was in broad daylight.
So which part of that do you claim (erroneously as it happens) was not true?
Did she slip on a banana skin and crush half of the bones in her skull and lose an eye?
Come on, you can do better than that, you moron!
Nilguiri 1 year ago
@Nilguiri hey chill out moron!!!! im not denying the fact that their were witnesses. what i meant to ask was, how da hell do u know that israeli soldiers were deliberately aiming at this girl??? and yes she might have slipped on a banana peel whilst running away!!! u never know. chillax my friend. just wanna understand where u get this hatred from. are u denying that the palestinians are not the cause of any problems in palestine/israel???
lugano30 1 year ago
@lugano30
Yes, I am denying that the Palestinians are the cause of the problems.
Their land was invaded and stolen from them, they were ETHNICALLY CLEANSED (yes, that's right). The problem is caused by Israel.
They fired several gas cannisters DIRECTLY at her, I don't know how many. If it had been the first time this had happened, you might give the benefit of doubt to the IDF, but many peaceful foreign protesters have been assinated, and the IDF have a LONG record of doing just that.
Nilguiri 1 year ago
@Nilguiri If you believe your myths youll never have peace. You cry over the lans your grandfather gave up flling because Arab Radio or the 5 Arab leaders told them to. But shame has created Isreali massacres to create the brave Arab Palestinian.
kreplach2 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
GOOD JOB I.D.F!
Keep up the wonderful work you are doing!
All citizens of Israel love you.ignore the leftists, because they do not represent us.
maortzu 1 year ago
The israeli DESTRUCTIVE forces, once more engaging in coward attacks to unarmed people. They murderers are afraid the them, of the truth. FREE GAZA, STOP ISRAELI APARTHEID!
arirang777 1 year ago 6
...both sides and openly discuss it rather than shouting insults and hate messages at each other. As i have a completely open mind to these issues please try and convince me either way but i feel that there needs to be a coming together, you talk of "muslims and christians joining together" or "jews and christians" together or against each other, but really you all need to work together. Please reply to me i would like to hear what you have to say on different issues and have an open discussion.
tommyrharper57 1 year ago
@tommyrharper57
Hi Tommy.
You make a powerful point, however, there is a big difference between bias and having a strong opinion based on empirical evidence. Prejudice means to PRE-judge. Personally, I am JUDGIING. Having seen Israel behave in this way thousands of times, it's obvious that ultra right-wing zionists (nothing to do with "jews") have absolutely no desire for dialogue. They have stolen Palestinian land and seem to delight in tormenting & humiliating them time and time again.
Nilguiri 1 year ago 2
@Nilguiri Hi, I agree with you about bais and having a strong opinion etc., but i think what you need to concede is that Israel will not leave palestine until they are destroyed, and i think ethically, this is not an option. On this basis, while Hamas vow to the distruction of Israel, it is hard to see an end to this. This means while Israel are there, there will be fighting, and aslong as there is fighting there will be war crimes on both sides, i think the only reason Israel appear to be ...
tommyrharper57 1 year ago
@tommyrharper57
So the obvious solution then, according to your own words, is for Israel to get the hell out of Palestine.
I am certainly no fan of Hamas - I think they are violent bigots, and deluded morons because they too believe in an imaginary friend - but they were the democratically elected government if Gaza and have a duty to defend their citizens. However their violent acts of the past pale into insignificance compared to the atrocities commited by the zionist government of Israel.
Nilguiri 1 year ago
@Nilguiri Well yes, of course the problem would go if you got rid of Israel, but that still doesnt make it the right thing to do, there are ordinary citizens there who are inocent as anyone, and as for Hamas being democraticaly elected, there is alot of evidence they cheated, obviously i dont know this, I just think there needs to be concesions on both sides.
tommyrharper57 1 year ago
@tommyrharper57
I am not saying "get rid" of Israel, just that that they fuck off out of their neighbour's country!
Of course there are innocent Israelis... I am talking about their ulta right wing racist government and the IDF. Have you seen the treatment the decent people on the left get in the Knesset when they try to reason with these ppl? They get accused of being terrorists and shouted down without being allowed to speak.
What concessions do you think the Palestinians should make?
Nilguiri 1 year ago
@Nilguiri I could make a list equally as long about what all the palestinions are doing wrong, it doesnt help, i dont believe the Israeli governement is ultra right wing or racist, there are people in it that are, but the only way they will be gone is if there is no longer a conflct, and to do this, as i have said, there needs to be work on both sides
tommyrharper57 1 year ago
@tommyrharper57
"I dont believe the Israeli governement is ultra right wing or racist"
I am sorry, Tommy - you are just plain wrong. There has been plenty of work on both sides, and the Israelis have broken cease-fires again and again and again!
Nilguiri 1 year ago
@tommyrharper57
And no, you could not make a list equally long of what the Palestinians have done wrong... assuming you don't get your info from the US media or by listening to Israeli proaganda and lies - which they do a lot better than the Palestinians.
Nilguiri 1 year ago
@Nilguiri Both sides have huge amounts of propoganda, and maybe not in america is there so much anti-Israeli propaganda, but certainly in europe i would say there is considerably more anti-Israeli propaganda, I would say the palestinians are incredibly good at making it. Especially Hamas who seem to rather put there own civilians at risk to make Israel look bad. And dont take that the wrong way, Israel do terrible things everyday, just making the point.
tommyrharper57 1 year ago
@tommyrharper57
Here is an example of the opposition trying to be heard in the Knesset.
Does this look like a modern, fair democracy to you?
watch?v=KBUxZnHb2ig
Nilguiri 1 year ago
@Nilguiri As for the video you sent me, it shows how strong peoples views are and how hard they will be to change, but you often see such action in parliaments around the world, even here in Britain which is supposed to be one of the if not the most democratic and liberal places in the world
tommyrharper57 1 year ago
@tommyrharper57
They were calling her a terrorist!! She is an MK!!! (Member of the Knesset - like an MP) They accused her of carrying a knife!! Even Cameron and Clegg don't do that! hahaha!
Nilguiri 1 year ago
@tommyrharper57
Not to mention the atrocities that they have commited against them. They assasinate Palestinians almost on a daily basis. They commited countless war crimes in their brutal invasion of Gaza 18 months ago. They murdered women and CHILDREN waving white flags & running away, they use human shields, they use illegal weapons, then they lie to cover up their crimes and are unwilling to hold any independant investigations of their crimes. Critics are immediately branded antisemites.
Nilguiri 1 year ago 2
@tommyrharper57
They don't allow people to protest peacefully, often blatently targetting foreign demonstrators. Read about Rachel Corrie and Emily Henochowicz, to name just 2 horrific examples of their brutal response to peacful protesters. They deny they have caused a humanitarian crisis in Gaza and refuse entry to all but the most basic of foodstuffs. Many people died as a result of being denied basic medical treatment. On the Mavi Marmara, they also denied medical care to their victims.
Nilguiri 1 year ago 3
@Nilguiri "to name just 2". can you name 5? i doubt it. Do you think it would be hard for me to find 5 people in each arab country that have been killed by the local government? by 5 i meant 50, and maybe even 500
mrheryou 1 year ago
@mrheryou
Not that you are trying to twist or justify the facts, of course.
You want 5 names?:
Tristan Anderson, Bassem Ibrahim Abu-Rahma, Aqel Sadeq Dar Srour, Imad Rizka.
I could go on, but including Rachel Corrie and Emily Henochowicz., that was 6, so fuck you.
But then, since when have you Israeli apologist cunts been interested in the facts?
Nilguiri 1 year ago 3
@Nilguiri George Rishmawi of the ISM told the San Francisco Chronicle that: "When Palestinians get shot by Israeli soldiers, no one is interested anymore. But if some of these foreign volunteers get shot or even killed, then the international media will sit up and take notice."[36]
source :Wikipedia
kreplach2 1 year ago
@kreplach2
Well George Richmawi is wrong about the murdered Palestinians, but I guess he was right about at least some of the foreigners that were assasinated by the IDF. But of course, you wouldn't know, because the US media broadcasts from so far up Netanyahu's ass that I don't blame you for being clueless.
The IDF could execute 10,000 US citizens in Times Square and the media would call the victims terrorists and Obama would reimburse the Israelis for the ammunition and give them a 20% tip.
Nilguiri 1 year ago 2
@Nilguiri If you go where bullets are flying and youre a naive student you better not walk around quizzicly. Did the us media go on the Israel or flotilla side?
your absolutism is hilariously unreal.
kreplach2 1 year ago
@kreplach2
Ah I see... So the IDF were randomly firing bullets around in an empty area of another country, and the naïve, peaceful protesters got together and decided to stand exactly where they happened to be shooting and tried to headbutt the bullets away as a part of their protest, right? How dare they interfere with IDF soldiers who were just passing the time, having fun shooting at nothing?
Why were they shooting if there was nobody there, though? I don't quite understand that bit.
Nilguiri 1 year ago
@Nilguiri Palestinians often use demonstrations as cover for shooting, They dont care if fellow Palestinans or naive bleeding heart liberals get shot, its martyrs for the cause. And so the bullets fly
kreplach2 1 year ago
@kreplach2
So, first you say I couldn't name 5 people who were executed by the IDF in broad daylight, and when I name 6, you change your story and start inventing excuses, in this case "it was their own fault" for going to "where bullets are flying"
mmmm, That sounds sickeningly familiar, where have I heard that before?
Just about every time you ultra right-wing thugs open your mouth, that's when.
Do you Israeli's have a special word for that kind of "logic"? I certainly do!
Nilguiri 1 year ago
@Nilguiri Did I ask you that? Gunmen use demonstrations for cover so often Im sure some IDF get trigger happy. at Times
kreplach2 1 year ago
@kreplach2
"Did the US media go on the Israeli side?
Pretty much, yes. Because the US media's job is to repeat Israeli propaganda. Nothing more, nothing less.
They seem to believe the highly edited 1 minute of video that you have released for propaganda purposes and covered up all the rest.
However, even they are starting to get suspicious as one lie after another has been proved to be just that. Even your lot have admitted that "Go back to Auschwitz" fiasco was a fabrication.
Nilguiri 1 year ago
Well I am a 12 year old boy from britain with christian parents, but i think i am an atheist. As being completely openminded to the situation in the middle east i find that most of the comments here are completely closed minded and biast. I mean there are comments such as ''You are so going down Israel!". The problem will never end if either 'side' as it were cannot form an open view. Both peoples have and are doing wrong but if any of you would want this to end you would see the problems on ...
tommyrharper57 1 year ago
@tommyrharper57 Your correct. But nothings gonna set solved until Arabs see Israelis as equals and neighbors, dont you think? Its elementary.
kreplach2 1 year ago
@kreplach2 yes of course, but it has to work both ways, Israelies need to see Arabs as equals and neighbors too, i think a major part of the problem is that both the palestinians and Israelis need to accept that they are neighbors and are stuck together, alot of people still want one or the other to be wiped out which is, well just not going to happen with out more death which no one wants.
tommyrharper57 1 year ago
@tommyrharper57 Israel were ready to accept Arabs as equals and neighbors in 1920. Bit Arabs stabbed them in the street. in 1948 but Arabs sent in 5 Arab Armies to kill the Jews In 2000 but Jews started the 2nd intifada and stopped Oslo.
kreplach2 1 year ago
@kreplach2 Yes, all this is true, though whether all Israelies are ready to accept Palestinians as their neighbours is debatable, but Israel still needs to do many things, such as stopp building in East Jerusalem, though you can argue they have the right to do it, it is still just making the situation worse and these such things need to be stopped
tommyrharper57 1 year ago
@tommyrharper57 East Jerusalem is part of Israel. Its not a settlement. Hamas ainming makes the situation worse.
kreplach2 1 year ago
@kreplach2 And east Jerusalem may not be a settlement, the housing may be illegal, but if Israel wants good press, then it will have to ignore this and let them be, though i understand how difficult this is when a palestinian goes and stabs an Israeli, if Israel does nothing wrong, there will be no justification for their actions
tommyrharper57 1 year ago
@tommyrharper57 If the Palestinians wanted peace thered be.
kreplach2 1 year ago
@kreplach2
"nothings gonna set solved until Arabs see Israelis as equals "
HAHA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HAH AH AH AH AH H AH AH AH AHAHAHAHAHA HA HA HA
You are a fucking hypocrit!
It's elementary.
Nilguiri 1 year ago
@Nilguiri Its the Arabs who saw Jews only in dhimmi Terms. Still do today.
kreplach2 1 year ago
im a white european atheist. but i see these people as my brothers.. stop fascism/zionism!!
MrMinutemen 1 year ago 2
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1rted4 1 year ago
What the fuck is wrong with these people?
I don't think I've ever hated anybody before... I thought I hated Cheney, Rumsfeld and Bush, but that pales by comparison of what I now feel towards these scumbags.
It must take a lot of self control to protest non-violently against these inhuman monsters.
Nilguiri 1 year ago 2
@Nilguiri
Isd that more fake outrage? You deserve an Oscar.
kreplach2 1 year ago
@kreplach2
You pricks just don't get it, do you?
It is hard to tell if you really are that stupid, or is it more of the constant stream lies? I really don't know.
Whatever it is, go fuck yourself.
Nilguiri 1 year ago
@Nilguiri its hard to say what your trying to say. Insults dont win arguements. Try to back up your story or shut the mouth.
kreplach2 1 year ago
@kreplach2
I don't need to back up "my story" as you call it. If you don't know the facts, then I suggest that you do a bit of research before telling me to "shut the mouth".
Anyway, I thought I told you to go fuck yourself.
Nilguiri 1 year ago
@Nilguiri Heres how ir works, You mention a fact, I challenge it You source it, otherwise your aliar.
kreplach2 1 year ago
@kreplach2
You lot live in your own little fantasy world, don't you? Even the gullible yanks are starting to get sick of your lies.
Nilguiri 1 year ago
@Nilguiri They were never lies. I admit Arabs are great manipulators and inventors, however you cant fool all the people all the time
kreplach2 1 year ago
@kreplach2
You said it mate! "I mention a fact, you challenge it"...
EXACTLY!
Nilguiri 1 year ago
@Nilguiri To everyone who has commented. My daughter was on that protest march. It was worse than it looked in the video. She suffered the effects of the tear gas. The driver of the car dressed as a ship was arrested,
This is the third march she has been on , 1st march they were stopped by IDF pushing them back with rifles, 2nd march they were stopped by Palestinian troops who had been told that anyone approaching the wall would be shot. 3rd march on video. ALL THESE TOOK PLACE IN PALESTINE!!
60brummie 1 year ago
@60brummie
Thanks to you and your brave daughter.
It is absolutely incredible how these monsters are able to enter another country and intimidate and murder their citizens on what little is left of their own land, not just with impunity, but with the blessing of their client, the USA.
If the US media told the truth once in a while, it might go some way to preventing Israeli state terrorism. Obama could stop this overnight, but rather chooses to support and fund a rogue state in terrorism.
Nilguiri 1 year ago
@Nilguiri If you Google 'International solidarity movement' , the second topic that comes up is the story of a young American girl who lost an eye and suffered other serious facial injuries when taking part in a peaceful demo. Eye witnesses say that she was deliberately aimed for by the IDF, this was less than 2 weeks ago on PALESTINIAN LAND!
60brummie 1 year ago
@60brummie
Yes, that was Emily Henochowicz whom I mentioned in one of my previous posts.
Evidently they fired several gas cannisters at her and missed before finally hitting their target. It pretty much destroyed all of the bones on one side of her face as well as destroying her eye.
The USA don't seem to give a crap about her or the other young lad who was summarily executed on the Mavi Marmara.
They give them 100% unconditional support. It makes me feel sick just to think of it.
;(
Nilguiri 1 year ago